Significant routing difference by moving just a few miles

[lstone19]

We just moved to Reno, NV and I'm finding myself fascinated by how moving a starting or ending point just a little can make a major difference to the optimal route. Last year, when we started the "find our new new home" trip, we were starting from my brother's house in Montecito, CA (just east of Santa Barbara). The nav apps were recommending one of two routes to downtown Reno (and reverse) depending on traffic - US101 North-San Jose-I680-I80 or US101 North-Paso Robles-CA46-CA41-I5 North-I80. But move five miles east of Montecito to Carpenteria and the route flipped to 101 South-Ventura-CA 126-5-80. Five miles and the initial heading changed 180 degrees.

So now we're living in Reno but we're in south Reno ten minutes south of downtown. And that ten minutes makes a huge difference as now the optimal route from Montecito is US101 South-Ventura-CA126-I-5 South-CA14-US395. Again, a huge difference in route for just a few miles difference. The good thing is with at least three different routes we can take all with times within no more than 15 minutes difference, we can have variety in the trips (and one we plan to do when conditions permit is through Yosemite and over Tioga Pass).

We'll be driving Reno to Montecito next week and I'm looking forward to 395 which will be new to me south of Carson City. OTOH, we will be watching the weather as if winter weather is expected, I'll just head to I-80 and get over Donner while I can.

[Max Rockatansky]

The optimal road trip to anywhere along Santa Barbara Channel must include CA 33 between CA 166 and Ojai.  Wheeler Gorge is too fun of a drive to avoid when the weather is good.

[lstone19]

The optimal road trip to anywhere along Santa Barbara Channel must include CA 33 between CA 166 and Ojai.  Wheeler Gorge is too fun of a drive to suffer though so much I-5 for.

Thanks. I will put that in the book as a route to be used some day.

[Dirt Roads]

That happens here a lot, given that I-85 serves North Durham and Downtown, I-40 serves Chapel Hill, South Durham and Research Triangle Park (RTP), US-15/501 connects all of those though the west side of Durham and the Durham Freeway connects the Hillsborough area to Downtown and RTP. 

For instance, if you are going from the Orange County Courthouse in downtown Hillsborough to RTP, it is about 22 miles either using Churton Street -to- I-85 -to- Durham Freeway <or> Churton Street -to- I-40, and both routes are nearly identical timewise in non-rush hour traffic.  It is only 3 minutes longer to take US-70 -to- I-85 -to- the new I-885, and that is only about 3 minutes longer.  As you can imagine, moving a mile in any direction twists the routing a bunch.  To complicate the issue, if you are north and/or west of Hillsborough, it is often faster to take US-70 westbound over to the I-85 connector to get to I-40 [southbound] to get to Chapel Hill (it is posted as Truck NC-86 but nobody pays any attention).  Depending on the traffic reports, there are about 5 different ways to get from here to Raleigh and any might work better under certain conditions.

My favorite example is going from say Mebane -to- Knightdale.  At night and weekends, staying on I-40 and the east side of the Beltline works better. 

At most other times, it is best to get onto I-540 and go all the way around to US-64 (it is still too hard to say I-87).  But coming back during rush hour, it often works better to take the east side of the Beltline to get to I-40, then take I-885 to get to North Durham and then work your way through the mess at Hillsborough.   If you weren't paying attention, that makes a Figure Eight pattern around Raleigh and Durham, and I've done that numerous times.

[kurumi]

Here's the best way (google maps) to San Jose, CA from a few points along I-15 in Utah:
* just south of UT 99 in Fillmore: take I-15 / CA 58 / I-15 via Las Vegas and Bakersfield
* the 59 miles between UT 99 in Fillmore and UT 28 in Nephi: use US 50 / I-80 via Ely and Reno
* north of UT 28: use I-80 via Salt Lake and Reno

Getting off I-15, there's a house on Old Hwy 91 north of Nephi where their best route differs from their neighbor's, and the optimal plan (though silly) would be to split up and meet at the destination.

[SEWIGuy]

This really isn't that rare.  Think about if you live around Toledo, OH and you need to drive to Buffalo, NY.  Depending on where you live, you could take either way around Lake Erie - either on I-90 or through Canada.  There is some point where the optimal route changes depending on where you are starting from.

[Max Rockatansky]

Moving from Hanford to Fresno changed the "on paper"  best routing to Mammoth in the summer.  In Hanford map services would tell me to CA 198, CA 99, CA 58, US 395 and CA 203.  In Fresno the best summer map services say CA 41, Wawona Road, Tioga Pass/CA 120, US 395 and CA 203.

[SkyPesos]

In some of the northern Cincinnati suburbs (north of I-275) that are along or west of I-75, it's a minute or two faster to get to Downtown Columbus taking I-75/675/70 than I-71.

[webny99]

Rochester's eastern suburbs to Syracuse and points east.

From West Webster, it's fastest to take either the Bay Bridge or Empire Blvd to NY 590 to I-490 to the Thruway. Head a few miles east though (roughly from Hard Rd east), and it's fastest to take NY 104 east to NY 370 to NY 690 to head to Syracuse or get on the Thruway EB. Map shown here.

[JayhawkCO]

As discussed multiple times on this forum, depending on where you are in the Denver metro, the quickest way to Salt Lake City is either I-70->US 6->I-15 or I-25->US 287->I-80.

[skluth]

A trip to Lake of the Ozarks can either be via I-44 or I-70 depending on where you live in the St Louis Metro and whether your destination is closer to the Bagnell Dam or Camdenton. There are even a few places around Lake of the Ozarks where US 50 is the optimal route from the southern parts of the St Louis area.

[lstone19]

This really isn't that rare.  Think about if you live around Toledo, OH and you need to drive to Buffalo, NY.  Depending on where you live, you could take either way around Lake Erie - either on I-90 or through Canada.  There is some point where the optimal route changes depending on where you are starting from.

I agree that there will always these route "flip" points. I'm just amazed that for what will be a regular (at least once a year) trip for us that at both ends we're less than five miles from these points. So while it would not be unusual for where exactly in an endpoint city you are to make a difference, for this Reno <-> Santa Barbara trip, it's where exactly in Reno is the endpoint, where exactly in Santa Barbara is the endpoint, and just for good measure, what's the weather forecast. And that it not only changes the optimal direction at the Santa Barbara end, it flips it 180 degrees.

[JoePCool14]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

[lstone19]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

Your example just helped me connect the dots in that when there is a significant barrier to routed around (e.g. Lake Michigan, the Sierra Nevada (at the Reno end of my trip), the Coast Range (at the Santa Barbara end of my trip)), you'll get the 180 degree flips since there is no slightly different optimal route to move to.

Although from my prior airline experience, one similar thing that fascinated me was the optimal routing between the continental U.S. and Guam. There were really only two ways to go - connecting in Honolulu or connecting in Tokyo. And the dividing line was basically a line diagonally across the U.S. from Seattle to Miami. Northeast of that line and it was faster via Tokyo; southwest of that line and it was faster via Honolulu (flight schedules will impact that but with optimal hub schedules, the line pretty much was it). And having flown Guam-Tokyo-Chicago, you get to have fun with CBP: "How long were you out of the U.S.?" "I wasn't."

[DandyDan]

My local one here in Mason City, Iowa is going from Mason City to Rochester, MN. You are expected to take various county roads, plus a segment of IA 9, to get to Saint Ansgar, IA, then take US 218 north to Austin, MN, then east on I-90. Clear Lake residents, in stark contrast, take I-35 north to I-90 east to get to Rochester.

[skluth]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

If it's even close, go around the north side. It's more scenic, less stressful, and any estimate for going through Chicagoland needs to add another hour minimum for traffic.

[SEWIGuy]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

If it's even close, go around the north side. It's more scenic, less stressful, and any estimate for going through Chicagoland needs to add another hour minimum for traffic.

Depends on the time of day. Chicago can be a breeze if you avoid rush hour - and even then the Tri-State isn't THAT bad. Not sure I have ever had "another hour" added to my trip sans accident or weather event.

[TheStranger]

Toll avoidance and bypassing traffic choke points factored into a couple of routings I used to take to get from the Bay Area to Sacramento and back:


Menlo Park to Sacramento, I never did 101-80-50, but rather 84 east-880 south-Auto Mall Parkway east-680 north-84 east-580 east-205 east-5 north-4 east-99 north.  This successfully bypasses the toll on the Carquinez Bridge

Sacramento to San Jose to go to Sharks games, I think I did do the obvious 50-80-680 thing once, but with the Yolo Causeway and the WX Freeway getting busy on Friday rush hour...I instead would do something like 99 south-120 west-205 west-580 west-84 west-680 south (completely bypassing the Benicia Bridge).

[Hunty2022]

If you are going to South Hampton Roads from East I-64, you can take two ways.

1. HRBT / I-64
The way most people would take is to stay on I-64, since it's a more direct way to Virginia Beach. But, because of that, the HRBT is usually backed up, especially during summer. Despite this, it's the best way to get to Norfolk, the Eastern Shore, and Virginia Beach. An expanded HRBT is being built, widening it to 8(?) lanes, causing less jam.

2. MMMBT / I-664
The less crowded way is I-664, there is still minor backups though. VDOT has no plan to widen the MMMBT from 4 lanes. This is the best way to get to Suffolk, Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and the rural portions of Virginia Beach.

[pianocello]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

Going from Lambeau Field to Ferris State University in Big Rapids, MI is about 7 hours either way, depending on Chicago traffic.

Google doesn't consider the SS Badger going across the lake at the moment, but I'm guessing it's about the same amount of time after taking into account time to load and unload. That routing is about 2 hours of actual driving.

[Flint1979]

To go from my house to Lansing is 78 miles/1 hour, 21 minutes to take M-13 to I-69. You could also take I-75 to I-69 and it's the same time but 93 miles.

[odditude]

heading NE from NOVA to Baltimore and beyond, there's definitely a cutoff point between taking US 15 to I-70 vs DTR/VA 7/I-66 to I-495 to I-95.

[Flint1979]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

Going from Lambeau Field to Ferris State University in Big Rapids, MI is about 7 hours either way, depending on Chicago traffic.

Google doesn't consider the SS Badger going across the lake at the moment, but I'm guessing it's about the same amount of time after taking into account time to load and unload. That routing is about 2 hours of actual driving.

That's because it's closed for the season

[Flint1979]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

Going from Lambeau Field to Ferris State University in Big Rapids, MI is about 7 hours either way, depending on Chicago traffic.

Google doesn't consider the SS Badger going across the lake at the moment, but I'm guessing it's about the same amount of time after taking into account time to load and unload. That routing is about 2 hours of actual driving.

Change the date to sometime in the summer on Google Maps. It's 168 miles, 5 hours, 40 minutes. But the thing with using a ferry is that you need to time it to when the ferry will be departing or else you could be waiting for quite a while. Another crossing that is quicker but going between these two locations might be a bit further and that is using the Lake Express across Lake Michigan between Milwaukee and Muskegon.

[CtrlAltDel]

The "flip point" that always fascinates me is getting from IL/WI to MI, where it becomes better to go around the north side of Lake Michigan through the UP, versus south around Chicago. I've noticed from playing around and trying different places that it's a lot further north than I realize before you get to that flip point.

Going from Lambeau Field to Ferris State University in Big Rapids, MI is about 7 hours either way, depending on Chicago traffic.

Google doesn't consider the SS Badger going across the lake at the moment, but I'm guessing it's about the same amount of time after taking into account time to load and unload. That routing is about 2 hours of actual driving.

Change the date to sometime in the summer on Google Maps. It's 168 miles, 5 hours, 40 minutes. But the thing with using a ferry is that you need to time it to when the ferry will be departing or else you could be waiting for quite a while. Another crossing that is quicker but going between these two locations might be a bit further and that is using the Lake Express across Lake Michigan between Milwaukee and Muskegon.

Another factor is the fare, which for one person in a car one way is 156$.