Port Auth NY/NJ to move to cashless tolling

[mightyace]

www.Tollroadsnews.com posted this article on the Port Authority of NY and NJ moving to cashless tolling by 2012.

Port Auth NY/NJ pushes on with cashless toll plans - possible by end-2012

Be sure to get your EZ-Pass early folks!  

[mgk920]

I wonder how many places from outside the NYC area will be included in their photo-tollable plate registries.  Will me, with a car registered here in Wisconsin, be 'dinged' if I go roadtripping through there?  Plates from western Canada?  Mexican plates?  European plates?  Etc?

Mike

[froggie]

Most likely, they'd do a system similar to ON 407.  Which if I'm not mistaken takes a photo of the plate if there's no ETC in the car, and then mails the car owner the bill.

[Alex]

Currently out of state drivers can use the Dallas North Tollway's electronic toll collection section without paying. Their current billing structure only provides for sending out invoices to Texas drivers. Surely this will be updated to include all license plates, but you have to wonder with so many different specialty plates available, if the recognition software can keep up.

I cannot imagine that the Port Authority or other northeastern toll facilities will require all drivers to have EZPass transponders. I have one, but I have not used it since last December and got it so I could take advantage of the high-speed toll lanes whenever I am traveling up there. However other midwesterners or southerners driving in the northeast likely will never get an EZPass, if they only drive in the northeast sporadically.

[Truvelo]

So what about us foreigners? I doubt very that the car rental companies will start mailing out tickets abroad. I suspect they'll just deduct it from the renters credit card along with a $25 admin charge

Speaking of which. When I went over the GWB earlier in the year I used the EZPass transponder in the car. I then went onto Platepass's website and it correctly showed the charges for the bridges I crossed but when I clicked on send an invoice nothing happened. Six months later and I still haven't been charged for these tolls

[J N Winkler]

I have heard stories of E-tolls not being collected on toll roads operated by the various Florida county expressway authorities--no transponder, no in-state plates, no comeback.  I don't expect this state of affairs to last long however.

[mightyace]

I have heard stories of E-tolls not being collected on toll roads operated by the various Florida county expressway authorities--no transponder, no in-state plates, no comeback.  I don't expect this state of affairs to last long however.

Agreed, there's too much money being left on the table.

<sarcasm>And, what politician or bureaucrat can resist collecting more money, especially without raising fees/tolls/taxes?
</sarcasm>

[Chris]

While I think it's a good thing to move towards cashless tolling, which is an aged practice from the 60's, I do think the U.S. needs to make all ETC-systems compatible, or force every toll road in the U.S. to use the E-ZPass system, which is the most common ETC-system.

[xcellntbuy]

We are moving toward cashless tolling in south Florida with the SunPass system, as well.  It is currently used on the northbound HOT lanes of Interstate 95 in Miami-Dade County, from Interstate 195/FL 112 to the Florida's Turnpike/FL 826/FL 9/US 441 Golden Glades interchange, 9 miles.  The toll is also variable but guarantees a 50 mph ride.  The Miami-Dade Expressway Authority is looking to do the exact same thing with it's four expressways and collect more tolls where none currently exist on most of FL 874, FL 836 and all of FL 878.

When I had my EZ-Pass when I lived in upstate New York prior to 1998, the Thruway was a terrific hassle-free ride.  No change.  No bills.  Over the past decade, the EZ-Pass system has been the pre-eminent leader in automated toll collection for all of the toll roads, bridges and tunnels throughout New York and now throughout the Northeast and much of the Mid-West.  It looks like the Port Authority will be setting the standard in metropolitan area for easier commuting.

Mark Alan

[mightyace]

While I think it's a good thing to move towards cashless tolling, which is an aged practice from the 60's,

I'm not sure what you mean. Has "cashless tolling" been around in some form since then?

Anyway, if you read the article, the PANYNJ is planning on moving to E-ZPass and video cameras only.  I'm guess that this is what you mean by ETC.

IMHO, ETC is still "cashless tolling" even if those in the business consider them to be two different things.

[Chris]

Oh I meant cash tolling is aged. 

With the current practice of building toll roads instead of tax roads, the more ETC-systems will appear. There's a task for the U.S. Government to make these compatible. We're having the same trouble in Europe, especially for truck tolls.

[mightyace]

Personally, I'm going to avoid ETC only toll roads as much as possible until either

1) There is a standard ETC transponder/sticker/etc. and the reliability improves.
2) The video option improves their plate recognition rate.

Some of my reticence towards ETC technology comes from the fact that I work as a  software developer/troubleshooter and know the kind of people that set up these things.  And, in this case, familiarity breeds contempt.

As it seems to be an inevitable trend, I'll probably bow to it eventually, and hopefully most of the bugs will be out by them.

BTW I only got into Online bill paying 3 years ago.

[Mr_Northside]

Agreed, there's too much money being left on the table.

<sarcasm>And, what politician or bureaucrat can resist collecting more money, especially without raising fees/tolls/taxes?
</sarcasm>

Especially from out-of-staters.

[Duke87]

Surely this will be updated to include all license plates, but you have to wonder with so many different specialty plates available, if the recognition software can keep up.

Do vanity plates really make a difference? Two sets of plates from the same state won't have the same number regardless. The system won't, for instance, have to make any distinction between ordinary Connecticut plates and Connecticut-preserve the sound plates.

And even if the software fails to recognize the plate, it can still take a picture and you can still have a person look at it.

[Scott5114]

Surely this will be updated to include all license plates, but you have to wonder with so many different specialty plates available, if the recognition software can keep up.

Do vanity plates really make a difference? Two sets of plates from the same state won't have the same number regardless. The system won't, for instance, have to make any distinction between ordinary Connecticut plates and Connecticut-preserve the sound plates.

A lot of Oklahoma's plates more specialized plates could conceivably overlap. Many of them have numbers only. Of course many of those plates are school, state or local government plates that you wouldn't expect to see outside Oklahoma anyway, but it could happen (school bus on a field trip, for instance). Also, there are many different tribal plates issued in Oklahoma and I have no idea how those work.

As for me, they can pry my Federal Reserve Notes out of my cold dead fingers.

[SSOWorld]

Surely this will be updated to include all license plates, but you have to wonder with so many different specialty plates available, if the recognition software can keep up.

Do vanity plates really make a difference? Two sets of plates from the same state won't have the same number regardless. The system won't, for instance, have to make any distinction between ordinary Connecticut plates and Connecticut-preserve the sound plates.

A lot of Oklahoma's plates more specialized plates could conceivably overlap. Many of them have numbers only. Of course many of those plates are school, state or local government plates that you wouldn't expect to see outside Oklahoma anyway, but it could happen (school bus on a field trip, for instance). Also, there are many different tribal plates issued in Oklahoma and I have no idea how those work.

As for me, they can pry my Federal Reserve Notes out of my cold dead fingers.

Your proposal is acceptable </bug in Edgar suit>

Cashless tolling is feasable - it's being done elsewhere.  The problem is - there are too many politicians out there who are more worried about their own jobs than helping the people.  People can be very frightened of change.  As for license plate recognitions - sure they can send a bill - and add a surcharge, and consider it a violation.

Illinois has a method of paying tolls for E-ZPass users for emergency use only (pay it online).  It can be used if one forgot the transponder (which I normally won't do since the transponder is in the car) or it dies.  The method has a limit of uses though (how many I forget and I'm to lazy to research.

[Chris]

The disadvantages of cashless tolling, from a user point of view, is that's it's much easier to toll urban freeways, where toll booths were usually considered too much of a problem for traffic flow (New York City proves that, they even removed the Verrazano Narrows Bridge toll in one direction), and that's also why they don't toll freeways in urban areas of France, for instance.

Freeflowing tolls allows an easy expansion of a toll system throughout a city, heck, it can even be done on surface streets. Now that ETC becomes more widespread, I expect many more freeways to be tolled in the next 20 years. Since raising the gas tax is some kind of no-go area, they have to find funding elsewhere.

[SSOWorld]

however, in the US - all types of fee implementations - raising taxes, implementing or raising tolls, etc - will meet resistance from most users.

[mightyace]

Surely this will be updated to include all license plates, but you have to wonder with so many different specialty plates available, if the recognition software can keep up.

Do vanity plates really make a difference? Two sets of plates from the same state won't have the same number regardless. The system won't, for instance, have to make any distinction between ordinary Connecticut plates and Connecticut-preserve the sound plates.

And even if the software fails to recognize the plate, it can still take a picture and you can still have a person look at it.

That's the main issue in my mind -- i.e. actual recognition rather that plate overlap.  The specialty plates are more likely to have varied color patterns that will confuse the reading software.  Plus, it will be a lot of work to keep track of all active variations.  That is probably an opportunity for a service that the various tolling authorities use.

Another question, what of temporary tags?  Here in TN they are paper and the only large digits are the expiration date which are filled in with a marker.  (now that might be readable, but so what?)  The identifying digits are 1/4 to 1/2 inch high.

[Alps]

Many states only require the temp tags to be rear-window mounted.  In fact, if for some reason your rear license plate bracket is damaged, at least in NJ you can mount the license plate itself in the rear windshield.  Now, these cameras do capture enough of the car to also get the rear window, but it will require manual manipulation to get the plate.  And what's to stop someone from reaching back there and grabbing the plate just to run through the toll, then putting it back?

[Scott5114]

Or putting it up in the window sideways to fool the OCR device.

"Sorry officer, I must have hit a bump and it got stuck like that!"

[mightyace]

How about someone putting a fake or doctored tag in the window or on the back of the vehicle.

It doesn't have to be perfect, just good enough to fool the OCR and keep a human from looking at it. 

[mightyace]

The first step in the process is beginning:

Cashless in New York City - AET soon on Henry Hudson Bridge

---------------------
Side note:

One casualty of the project will be the unusual double deck toll plaza.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.374125,44.384766&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTW_bwIdsweY-w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&ll=40.876324,-73.924545&spn=0.002856,0.002709&t=k&z=18

Top Deck:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.374125,44.384766&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTW_bwIdsweY-w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&ll=40.875862,-73.925006&spn=0.002856,0.002709&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.875809,-73.925094&panoid=f86D9hbiA1yLNdeOIj0w2Q&cbp=12,38.94,,0,6.78

Bottom Deck:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.374125,44.384766&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FTW_bwIdsweY-w&split=0&hq=&hnear=Henry+Hudson+Bridge,+New+York&ll=40.876328,-73.924534&spn=0.002856,0.002709&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=40.876375,-73.924442&panoid=8b6jlfAzmjE5zDSaIDQOBQ&cbp=12,238.69,,0,4.29

[papaT10932]

I think cashless tolling is a way to fire toll collectors. They need jobs too just like the rest of us!!

[D-Dey65]

I think cashless tolling is a way to fire toll collectors. They need jobs too just like the rest of us!!

Another reason I don't get a SunPass for Florida, or an E-Z Pass for the Northeast & Mid-Atlantic.