South Africa freeways

[Chris]

South Africa also has some freeways, especially around the larger cities like Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town and Durban. There is no complete nationwide freeway network, although they're progressing with it. The Johannesburg - Cape Town road is mostly a freeway or dual carriageway, but not entirely.

Here are some pictures.

N1 150 km outside Johannesburg


N3 in Durban


N3


M2 in Cape Town


Port Elizabeth


Johannesburg


Overhead sign on R24 near Johannesburg. Notice the German font DIN 1451.


Pretoria


Durban


N1

[Truvelo]

What I like is the section in the middle of Cape Town with the unfinished flyovers

[yacoded]

They sure do have their work cut out for them with the World Cup coming up. 

[shoptb1]

Overhead lane diagrams are interesting as they don't hang over the actual lanes.  Seems easy enough to understand though.

[xcellntbuy]

It looks as if South African road signs are all in English.  There is no Afrikaans.

[Chris]

Afrikaans is only spoken by 10 - 13% of the population. Zulu is the most widely spoken, then Xhosa. English however, is prominent in newspapers, media and signs. There are 11 major languages in South-Africa. Afrikaans is mostly spoken around Cape Town and western South Africa.

However, I think it's a good idea to have one consistent and widely-understood language on the signs, instead of multiple languages or constant language changes once you leave or enter a different language-area.

As a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch. (simplified phonetic Dutch). However, it's a common misconception in the Netherlands that you can just go anywhere in South Africa and talk Dutch, and think people there will understand it.

[yanksfan6129]

Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

[english si]

As a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch. (simplified phonetic Dutch). However, it's a common misconception in the Netherlands that you can just go anywhere in South Africa and talk Dutch, and think people there will understand it.

Sounds a bit like US English and UK English - especially amongst those in the USA whose first language isn't English, UK English isn't understood fully. Then again, US English is a lot more widespread in the US than Afrikaans in ZA. Add to that many English speakers (especially the Brits - remnant of Empire) think that if you speak loudly and slowly in English anywhere in the world, you'd be understood. I suspect most Brits think that you could go anywhere in former pink countries (and to a lesser extent, large swathes of Europe) and speak only English and be understood by everyone. It's probably more like 40% of people in those countries that have could understand a wide range of simple English (more than just a handful of words).

Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

I thought that the English settlers spoke English, rather than Afrikaans? at least as a first language.

[aswnl]

As a Dutchie, I can understand Afrikaans basically. It kind of sounds like hillbilly Dutch.

Sounds a bit like US English and UK English

No, there's a lot more difference. US English ansd UK English is more like Holland-Dutch to Flemish-Dutch.
Comparing Dutch to Afrikaans is more like comparing Norwegian to Icelandic.

[Chris]

Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not sure about that, but only 9% of the South African population is white.

Wikipedia:

The white population is not ethnically homogeneous and descends from many ethnic groups: Dutch, Flemish, Portuguese, German, Greek, French Huguenot, English, Polish, Irish, Italian, Scottish and Welsh.

[iwishiwascanadian]

I was looking at roads around Gauteng (Johannesburg and Pretoria) since they are on Google Street View and saw that many of the signs were signed in Afrikaans.  Many were in English, but a lot was signed in Afrikaans.  I was surprised, especially with the abbreviations, it seems like one would be more likely to see -weg (road) or str (street) instead of the English abbreviations. 

[Stephane Dumas]

I dust-off this thread by mentionning this exterpt from the movie "The Gods Must be crazy" where we see vintage view of Johanesbourg's freeways circa 1980-81 in the first seconds of the clips as well as 0:40, 1:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz04A_cgZMQ

[Stephane Dumas]

I was looking at roads around Gauteng (Johannesburg and Pretoria) since they are on Google Street View and saw that many of the signs were signed in Afrikaans.  Many were in English, but a lot was signed in Afrikaans.  I was surprised, especially with the abbreviations, it seems like one would be more likely to see -weg (road) or str (street) instead of the English abbreviations. 

I re-dust off this thread. ^^;

I saw one sign in Afrikaans in Beaufort West http://goo.gl/maps/1hf8G where a sign who mention Kaapstad instead of Cape Town.

[lordsutch]

Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not exactly; the descendants of the Dutch settlers in the former Orange Free State etc. (the Boers) largely speak Afrikaans, but the more British-settled Cape Colony was/is predominantly English-speaking.  I'd guess the black population favors English, to the extent they use non-native languages, in large part because the Boers/Afrikaners tended to be even less racially progressive than the British (for example, Cape Province was the last part of South Africa to resist the imposition of apartheid by the national authorities).

[Stephane Dumas]

Afrikaans is the language of the white South Africans, the Afrikaners. I'm pretty sure that anywhere you go where there are white people, you will find Afrikaans.

Not exactly; the descendants of the Dutch settlers in the former Orange Free State etc. (the Boers) largely speak Afrikaans, but the more British-settled Cape Colony was/is predominantly English-speaking.  I'd guess the black population favors English, to the extent they use non-native languages, in large part because the Boers/Afrikaners tended to be even less racially progressive than the British (for example, Cape Province was the last part of South Africa to resist the imposition of apartheid by the national authorities).

From what I read on Wikipedia's entry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans

Afrikaans is the first language of over 80% of Coloured South Africans (3.5 million people) and about 60% of White South Africans (2.7 million). About 200,000 black South Africans speak it as their first language.Large numbers of Bantu-speaking and English-speaking South Africans also speak it as their second language.

Some state that instead of "Afrikaners" which refers to an ethnic group, the terms Afrikaanses or "Afrikaanssprekendes" (lit. Afrikaans speakers) should be used for people of any ethnic origin who speak Afrikaans. Linguistic identity has not yet established which terms shall prevail, and all three are used in common parlance.

[Desert Man]

  From what I know of the topic, Afrikaans is a language derived from Dutch with German and French Hugenout influences, developed in the country for over 300-400 years. South Africa strives to move on from its' ugly past of Apartheid in which they accomplished ending the system, but the problem of social inequality serves as a barrier to South Africa's image as Africa's most developed democracy. South Africa has a huge prosperous treasury from the country's history of mining valuable minerals like gold...you may find some gold mine hills inside the city of Johannesburg.

[english si]

the problem of social inequality serves as a barrier to South Africa's image as Africa's most developed democracy.

And in many ways, social inequality has increased since apartheid. And the development has regressed on many fronts - the country is more dangerous, more lawless, comparatively poorer, less democratic (it's almost a one-party system - pretty much the worst ideological stance you can take is to not support the ANC, especially if you are black) and more corrupt.

But at least it didn't do a total Zimbabwe: which, as independent Rhodesia had an authoritarian apartheid government, and then became Zimbabwe and got an violently racist totalitarian government that also made the country more dangerous, more lawless, much poorer (famine, hyper-inflation, etc), less democratic (Smith was bad, but Mugabe didn't even do internal party democracy) and more corrupt.

[webfil]

Demography is quite special in ZA. Life expectancy/fertility ratio does not match the usual tendencies in transitionnal demographic studies for developing countries (most people do not live more than 55 years old), that is partly due to social inequalities, but also great pandemics (antibiotics-resisting tuberculosis, HIV). In a multicultural country, high death rates may lead to political conservatism, in order to protect the culture and its social status.

The generalized consensus behind ANC you are referring to is touchy, as there are new parties emerging, criticizing the political monopoly of the ANC : http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201321812375758625

[vdeane]

I remember when maps labeled ZA as a developed nation.  At least that's how my social studies textbooks classified it.

[webfil]

The notion of developped country is quite relative, as it varies depending on the indicator you are relying to.

According to the CIA, the Gini Index places South Africa in second-to-last place in terms of development, but GDP per capita with power of purchase parity places ZA in the middle of the queue, near Brazil and China. GDP measures wealth created, Gini measures distribution of that wealth.

EDIT : Demographically speaking, the country is still considered a developing country, as it has not underwent the two phases of the demographic transition process, i.e. fall of the death rate/high birth rate -> significant population boom -> fall of the birth rate/low death rate -> fall of the population growth rate.

The death rate is still very high, but the birth rate is comparable to countries nearing post-transitionnal phases (such as Mexico, Turkey and Israel), that is why ZA is said to be still in transitionnal process, although things here are reversed. According to UN population estimations from the Development Programme, the population is expected to stagnate and/or decline around 2030-40, once epidemics and boomer's children will start dying. But then again, death rates will be higher than most "Occidental liberal democracies".

[mc78andrew]

I took the the gautrain from sandton city where I stayed one night at a trendy westin hotel after a week in the bush.  That really opened my eyes to the "two south Africa's". You leave sandton and it's almost like leaving any rich American suburb (minus a little more barbed wire around stuff).  There is a Bentley dealership and all.  Then the train stops in Alexandria...sights like that are not prevalent in any American ghetto.  Then it arrives at the airport and its like being back in the in heart of a modern economy.

I felt safe when I was there, but you just know what's lurking nearby...a lot of people with nothing to lose and not a lot of people to stop them if they randomly act in violence. Not going back to joberg anytime soon.

[Stephane Dumas]

I spotted that video about the Nelson Mandela bridge linking 2 areas of Johannesburg. It's in Afrikaans with English subtitles.

[Interstatefan78]

N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh, but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway. In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway, but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 

[kphoger]

N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh,

That either puts you near Bela-Bela (Limpopo) or Koppies (Free State).  Shall we assume you mean near Bela-Bela, north of Johannesburg?

but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway.

Is that a statement or a question?  If it's a question, then the answer is yes.  Speed limits in South Africa go up to 120 km/h.  Wikipedia even states that speed limits on single carriageways range from 80—120 km/h (50—75 mph), but it doesn't provide a reference.

In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway,

And even higher.  In the western USA, dual carriageway speed limits generally range from 115—135 km/h (70—85 mph).

but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 

Not just freeway-grade dual carriageways have speed limits in that range.  There are non-freeway roads in the United States with speed limits as high as 120 km/h (75 mph); some of those aren't even dual carriageways.

[Interstatefan78]

N1 150kms (93 mi) outside of Jo burg looks like the same as US 101 north of SLO with a 65-70 mph (105-110 kmh) limit, but that stretch of N1 150 kilometers outside of Johannesburg does have a speed limit of 110-120 kmh,

That either puts you near Bela-Bela (Limpopo) or Koppies (Free State).  Shall we assume you mean near Bela-Bela, north of Johannesburg?

but does South Africa use 110-120 kmh on a dual carriageway.

Is that a statement or a question?  If it's a question, then the answer is yes.  Speed limits in South Africa go up to 120 km/h.  Wikipedia even states that speed limits on single carriageways range from 80—120 km/h (50—75 mph), but it doesn't provide a reference.

In contrast USA does use 60-105 kmh  (40-65 mph) on a dual carriageway,

And even higher.  In the western USA, dual carriageway speed limits generally range from 115—135 km/h (70—85 mph).

but freeway grade dual carriageway gets a 105-135 kmh (65-85 mph) 

Not just freeway-grade dual carriageways have speed limits in that range.  There are non-freeway roads in the United States with speed limits as high as 120 km/h (75 mph); some of those aren't even dual carriageways.

I would say Bela-Bela is my shot at the two lane N1, and also seen in some pictures that South Africa uses a 120 kmh in a urban freeway around JO burg and Cape Town, but here in the USA they are at 40-65 mph or in Texas 70mph (60-110 kmh)http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/50216409.jpg http://www.whyjoburg.com/image-files/e-toll-sign.jpg