Minor things that bother you

[CtrlAltDel]

speak to tables like they've been friends for years despite having known them for two minutes, that's when you know you've found a good server

Maybe I lived in France for too long, but that is not at all what I want from a waiter, especially at a higher end place. What I would prefer is someone courteous, efficient, and above all unobtrusive. Opposite you, I tend to associate any friendliness with places like Applebee's. I mean, why would my friends be waiting on me?

[JayhawkCO]

1) get up from your desk to go pee
2) walk in, take your position at the urinal
3) start doing your business
4) realize halfway through that you also need to poop
5) internal debate:  is it worth it to re-fasten your pants?
6) flush
7) shuffle over to a stall with your pants undone and your junk hanging out
8) hope nobody else walks in at that exact moment you're in transit
9) do your other business
10) flush again

And God help you if you're Rothman and you happen to walk past a mirror along the way!

I feel like a tuck, but no zip is required.

[Rothman]

1) get up from your desk to go pee
2) walk in, take your position at the urinal
3) start doing your business
4) realize halfway through that you also need to poop
5) internal debate:  is it worth it to re-fasten your pants?
6) flush
7) shuffle over to a stall with your pants undone and your junk hanging out
8) hope nobody else walks in at that exact moment you're in transit
9) do your other business
10) flush again

And God help you if you're Rothman and you happen to walk past a mirror along the way!

You're the weirdo walking around with your pants down, not me.

[jeffandnicole]

I think the gist of it is that waitstaff aren't often trained in what "polite" verbiage actually entails. When I was running restaurants, servers weren't allowed to use certain phrases:

"Hi, my name is XXXXX, and I'll be taking care of you today."
"Are you still working on that?"
The word "guys" in any context
The "we" that we're discussing

I'm sure I'm missing a few more.

I talked about you to my wife yesterday, during our lunch date.  We were at the kind of place we typically only go to if we have a gift card, because it's more expensive than we like to spend.  Not super fancy, but fancy enough that it's pretty much all yuppies eating there.  White tablecloths, separate wine and cocktail menus, waitstaff in black slacks and white shirts, prices pretentiously shown in whole numbers, but entrées still in the $20–40 range.  (We weren't actually all that impressed by the food, but that's beside the point.)

Anyway, our waiter was over the top with the language he used to hype up the food:  divine, fantastic, phenomenal, etc.  And of course, all the expected buzz phrases.

But he was young and enthusiastic, so whatever.  At least he was trying.  I told my wife, though, that I supposed he had never actually been trained on what to say and not to say.  Which, of course, led to my bringing up this post.

We decided to tip him well because, as I put it, he definitely got an E for Effort.  But I do wish you could train him.

On a related note, this thread has made me hyper-critical of what the waitstaff says to us, and it has now rubbed off onto my wife.  It makes for fun conversation between us after they leave the table, but still.

It even encroached on my non-restaurant life.  I'm a teacher in one of our church's home small groups.  One large-ish small group recently split in two, but we each teach the same basic material each time.  In advance, the other teacher and I get together and compare notes and ideas.  Last session, we had a combined (both small groups together) game night in lieu of a lesson, but the other teacher skipped because he and his wife were out at a concert that night.  So yesterday, while their family was over at our house for our planning session, he asked how game night went.  "So what games did we play?" he asked.  I couldn't help it.  "Do you mean our group? ... Then why did you say we?"  Uggh, now I can't stop it.

Ha! Glad I could infect you.

Re: training servers on how to speak. I honestly didn't do THAT much of it. I think a lot of it comes down to my interview technique. I am the world's least "technical" interviewer. Especially in the hospitality industry, I would just start conversations and go back and forth with the candidate for 15 minutes or so. I didn't really talk much about skills, and scenarios, using the STAR method, blah blah blah. Their resume already seemed good enough to make them a candidate for the position, so if they could engage in a conversation with me that seemed relatively effortless, I would immediately know that they're a "people person". So that's the basis for anything you do in hospitality -- you have to care about people having a good time and you have to be able to read them both verbally and non-verbally. Then I could worry about if they knew anything about wine, food, spirits, etc. But if they have an ease about the way that they speak, they're highly unlikely to need to resort to those weird, generic restaurantisms like "Hi there. My name is Chris and I'll be taking care of you today." I used to tell people that that's how you greet people at Applebee's and if you want to make Applebee's money, it's right down the street. (Plus, I always wanted people to drop their names at the end of the greet, because it's way more memorable as a lasting impression instead of being the intro followed by drink orders, appetizer orders, features, etc.)

On the conversational front, during training, I would often bring up an example from my "chain restaurant" days. I used to work for McCormick and Schmick's, an upscale-ish seafood chain for those unfamiliar. We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. So I had to get it in my servers' heads that <robot voice>"Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?"</robot voice> was a hell of a lot different than <friendly voice with lots of intonation>"Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?"</friendly voice with lots of intonation>.

tl;dr, it's not hard to work in a restaurant. The things you do -- taking orders, refilling drinks, table maintenance, etc. are not individually difficult tasks. But when you find someone that can do all of those things efficiently and also speak to tables like they've been friends for years despite having known them for two minutes, that's when you know you've found a good server.

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits. 

If I were to dare delve into CFA, a great example there is their employees say "My Pleasure".  Not because they found thousands of people across the country that personally use that line in their everyday speech, but because that's what CFA wants them to say.

(BTW, I've done that mystery shopping thing.  Wanna find out how a business operates, what they should say, and how long things should take?  Sign up for those shopper programs (the legit ones; there's a lot of bogus ones out there).  You'll get plenty of info on a restaurant's training thru them.)

[kphoger]

I talked about you to my wife yesterday, during our lunch date ...

... We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. ...

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits ...

Nope, not in my particular case.  It was a single stand-alone restaurant, not part of a chain.

[Rothman]

I talked about you to my wife yesterday, during our lunch date ...

... We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. ...

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits ...

Nope, not in my particular case.  It was a single stand-alone restaurant, not part of a chain.

You'd be surprised by how many "single stand-alone restaurants" are just one of a bunch owned by the same owner.

[JayhawkCO]

On the conversational front, during training, I would often bring up an example from my "chain restaurant" days. I used to work for McCormick and Schmick's, an upscale-ish seafood chain for those unfamiliar. We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. So I had to get it in my servers' heads that <robot voice>"Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?"</robot voice> was a hell of a lot different than <friendly voice with lots of intonation>"Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?"</friendly voice with lots of intonation>.

tl;dr, it's not hard to work in a restaurant. The things you do -- taking orders, refilling drinks, table maintenance, etc. are not individually difficult tasks. But when you find someone that can do all of those things efficiently and also speak to tables like they've been friends for years despite having known them for two minutes, that's when you know you've found a good server.

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits. 

If I were to dare delve into CFA, a great example there is their employees say "My Pleasure".  Not because they found thousands of people across the country that personally use that line in their everyday speech, but because that's what CFA wants them to say.

(BTW, I've done that mystery shopping thing.  Wanna find out how a business operates, what they should say, and how long things should take?  Sign up for those shopper programs (the legit ones; there's a lot of bogus ones out there).  You'll get plenty of info on a restaurant's training thru them.)

I would agree with you in the case of well-run restaurants. There are not many of these in this country, especially after 2020 where a bunch of lifers, like yours truly, decided to get out of the rat race. There are plenty of places where a script exists, but the servers/bartenders choose not to perform it and the managers choose not to enforce it.

[JayhawkCO]

I talked about you to my wife yesterday, during our lunch date ...

... We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. ...

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits ...

Nope, not in my particular case.  It was a single stand-alone restaurant, not part of a chain.

You'd be surprised by how many "single stand-alone restaurants" are just one of a bunch owned by the same owner.

Sure, but different owners obviously have different concepts and, in turn, different approaches to service. The first chef-owned restaurant group I worked for had a $15,000,000 a year steak house and a $1,200,000 a year burger bar. So obviously the same standards wouldn't apply.

[kphoger]

I talked about you to my wife yesterday, during our lunch date ...

... We got bought by Landry's, the country's largest restaurant group, and their style of service was a lot more formulaic than independent M&S was. The greet that you were supposed to use at every single table was "Good afternoon/evening. May I interest you in a cocktail or glass of wine?" I, personally, much prefer to personalize service, but if they company wanted it that way, then it is what it is. ...

The bolded section is what I think a lot of people forget.  Regardless of how someone wants to act, they are still an employee of a company and the script they use is set by the restaurant.  If an individual person decides they don't like the greetings and timings of a server, complain to the restaurant's business department.  The server and the manager are doing what corporate wants them to do. If the server is working a table that includes a secret shopper, they're going to be timed and possibly recorded on everything they do.  That server, and that restaurant, will be graded on that, and will receive whatever awards or penalties come as a result of those visits ...

Nope, not in my particular case.  It was a single stand-alone restaurant, not part of a chain.

You'd be surprised by how many "single stand-alone restaurants" are just one of a bunch owned by the same owner.

Nope, not in my particular case.  It's the only restaurant he owns.

[J N Winkler]

Today's not-so-minor thing that bothers me:  piece-of-crap cloud-based file hosting sites that give me just a tiny zip file with a name like "OneDrive [date]" containing "All Errors.txt" instead of the actual files.

[Scott5114]

On a related note, this thread has made me hyper-critical of what the waitstaff says to us [...] It even encroached on my non-restaurant life.

Can't wait until you run across a football fan talking about how "we won this weekend!"

[JayhawkCO]

On a related note, this thread has made me hyper-critical of what the waitstaff says to us [...] It even encroached on my non-restaurant life.

Can't wait until you run across a football fan talking about how "we won this weekend!"

That's a little different. You're supposed to feel part of the collective when you're a sports fan. A server who greets my table and has never met me before is not part of my "team".

[Scott5114]

On a related note, this thread has made me hyper-critical of what the waitstaff says to us [...] It even encroached on my non-restaurant life.

Can't wait until you run across a football fan talking about how "we won this weekend!"

That's a little different. You're supposed to feel part of the collective when you're a sports fan. A server who greets my table and has never met me before is not part of my "team".

It's still fun to ask them how many yards they rushed for.

[formulanone]

I don't think nor care this much about my server-speak, I'm used to enough corporate brainwashing that I'm not going pick it apart unless it's "uncannily awkward, so it's funny". I probably don't want the special and almost never drink alcohol, and will choose water 90% of the time. I'm not looking to date you or be best buddies. I will probably forget your name fifteen seconds after you told it to me because I'm hungry.

1) don't be an ass because you don't like your job (once this happened)
2) tell me ASAP if you're out of something (don't wait until everyone is served)
3) check back 2-5 minutes after serving
4) offer to refill drink at least once
5) I'm not that picky; I've probably returned food about twice ever (once was just the wrong food)

= 20% tip

[1995hoo]

Minor thing in the overall scheme of life that is a major annoyance when it happens: That feeling when the bottom of your foot is itchy and nothing you do seems to help, including taking off your shoe and scratching it or rubbing the bottom of your foot against something abrasive like your other shoes or one of the casters on your desk chair. Even more annoying when it's at the back end of the arch such that rubbing it against something is difficult.

[kphoger]

2) tell me ASAP if you're out of something (don't wait until everyone is served)

Hard to do if you didn't find out till then yourself.

[JayhawkCO]

2) tell me ASAP if you're out of something (don't wait until everyone is served)

Hard to do if you didn't find out till then yourself.

And generally, that's more the back of house's fault than the server's often. Or managers that don't take the time to put 86 items into the computer as such, so things can be rung in that people know that are out of stock.

[ZLoth]

Fraudsters who fake the originating number of my financial institution and tell me of some declined charges occurring in Atlanta, GA, then ask me for my account number. If you are originating the call and ask me for my account number, that's a instant hang-up and callback to the financial institution using the number from their app. Then, finding out that the fraud department is only open business hours, and they only do fraud callbacks during business hours. Of course, the fraud call came in last night at 40 minutes past their closure time.

[kphoger]

If you are originating the call and ask me for my account number, that's a instant hang-up ...

Oh, I'm sure they only asked you to "verify" your account number...

[JayhawkCO]

speak to tables like they've been friends for years despite having known them for two minutes, that's when you know you've found a good server

Maybe I lived in France for too long, but that is not at all what I want from a waiter, especially at a higher end place. What I would prefer is someone courteous, efficient, and above all unobtrusive. Opposite you, I tend to associate any friendliness with places like Applebee's. I mean, why would my friends be waiting on me?

I had missed your comment.

I don't want someone to tell me their life's story, but during the interactions required for business, does the server seem competent, at ease, knowledgeable, etc. And, most importantly, in their communication, do they seem like they actually want you to really enjoy your meal or are you just a tip waiting to happen.

[formulanone]

2) tell me ASAP if you're out of something (don't wait until everyone is served)

Hard to do if you didn't find out till then yourself.

And generally, that's more the back of house's fault than the server's often. Or managers that don't take the time to put 86 items into the computer as such, so things can be rung in that people know that are out of stock.

The "P" in ASAP means: possible.

As in: the time frame between "I'd like A" and sending the order and finding out soon enough that you're out of A, so I can order B or C instead. (I'm almost always ready with 3 items.)

Honestly, I really don't expect the server to remember all of the possible daily stock-outs unless it was well-known that the items is on intergalactic backorder, I'm pretty lenient. There's always one adult at my table who seems to sulk or look like a deer in the headlights, when they're out of the one item they wanted, and can't figure out a Plan B in advance. (Unless it's the type of restaurant that serves exactly one thing.) 

[kphoger]

I don't want someone to tell me their life's story, but ... do they seem like they actually want you to really enjoy your meal ...

This.

It's why I appreciate waiters and servers dressing nicely, smiling, speaking respectfully and cheerfully, etc.  It makes me feel like they actually want me to enjoy eating there.

[kphoger]

The "P" in ASAP means: possible.

As in: the time frame between "I'd like A" and sending the order and finding out soon enough that you're out of A, so I can order B or C instead. (I'm almost always ready with 3 items.)

And if the waitress doesn't find out till she wonders why your order is one plate short, sitting there ready to be delivered to your table?

[formulanone]

The "P" in ASAP means: possible.

As in: the time frame between "I'd like A" and sending the order and finding out soon enough that you're out of A, so I can order B or C instead. (I'm almost always ready with 3 items.)

And if the waitress doesn't find out till she wonders why your order is one plate short, sitting there ready to be delivered to your table?

That's when I find out if you're good at customer service or not.

[ZLoth]

If you are originating the call and ask me for my account number, that's a instant hang-up ...

Oh, I'm sure they only asked you to "verify" your account number...

Confirm or verify? Either way, unless I'm originating the call, I'm not going to confirm, verify, or deny any account numbers, birthdays, social security numbers, or what have you. Making a mistake here will result in a wallet-draining experience.