The Wildfires thread

[Bruce]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in.

https://twitter.com/NWCleanAir/status/1692599070156890594

[Bruce]

This graph from the BBC says it all:

[J N Winkler]

Yellowknife (capital of the Northwest Territories) has now been ordered to evacuate.  That equates to up to 20,000 people to be transported over a single two-lane highway that in places is smoke-fogged to the point pilot vehicles need to be used to guide motorists through.

[jakeroot]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in

Thankfully less people are having to make that choice these days. I was just reading that over half the homes in Seattle metro have AC now.

[Max Rockatansky]

Apparently Maui-Lanai ferry service resumed on 8/12.  Service has been rerouted to Maalaea given Laihaina obviously isn't available.

https://go-lanai.com/

[Bruce]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in

Thankfully less people are having to make that choice these days. I was just reading that over half the homes in Seattle metro have AC now.

That includes portable units (like mine), where an open window is necessary. It's not a solved issue until it's made mandatory by the state.

[Bruce]

WSDOT has closed 32 miles of I-90 between Sprague and Medical Lake due to the Gray Fire, which started yesterday and is already over 9,000 acres.

https://twitter.com/WSDOT_East/status/1693010987132309831

Some of the flames have reached the freeway and jumped it.

https://twitter.com/WSDOT_East/status/1693049448463765795

[Rothman]

This graph from the BBC says it all:

Hm.  I thought there was a year in the 1980s that was just as bad as this one.  Could it not be a 40-year cycle?

[Brandon]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in

Thankfully less people are having to make that choice these days. I was just reading that over half the homes in Seattle metro have AC now.

That includes portable units (like mine), where an open window is necessary. It's not a solved issue until it's made mandatory by the state.

Why should the state (or any other governmental agency for that matter) make them mandatory?  Leave it up to the owners/renters.

[Scott5114]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in

Thankfully less people are having to make that choice these days. I was just reading that over half the homes in Seattle metro have AC now.

That includes portable units (like mine), where an open window is necessary. It's not a solved issue until it's made mandatory by the state.

Why should the state (or any other governmental agency for that matter) make them mandatory?  Leave it up to the owners/renters.

1. Building owner is too cheap to install AC. (Won't someone think of the dollars? You're hurting the dollars' feelings.)
2. Tenant cannot move to a unit with AC because there are no available units to move to because too many building owners are cheap.
3. Tenant keels over due to (excessive heat) || (smoke inhalation).
4. People who haven't thought any of this through think this is a good thing because the dead person had "freedom". But hey, at least no dollars had their feelings hurt.

[J N Winkler]

Here in Wichita we are having to think about regulating rental accommodation more closely, simply because there are units on the market that are clearly unlivable for various reasons, such as black mold (for which there is no OSHA standard).  It is also becoming evident that we have slumlords other than the local "usual suspects" (one of the most notorious is actually based in Oklahoma City).

In Kansas, low-income individuals are already protected from utility disconnection during the winter to avoid hypothermia deaths.  As dangerously hot weather becomes more frequent, we will also need to think about restructuring working hours and providing cooling centers on a systematic basis even if we don't actually mandate A/C in every single residence.

I'd also point out that window A/C, especially in structures that are not A/C-ready in terms of insulation and electricity service, is a poverty specification that reliably fails when it is needed the most.  (And, yes, I am aware just how loaded that phrase is.)

[kalvado]

Here in Wichita we are having to think about regulating rental accommodation more closely, simply because there are units on the market that are clearly unlivable for various reasons, such as black mold (for which there is no OSHA standard).  It is also becoming evident that we have slumlords other than the local "usual suspects" (one of the most notorious is actually based in Oklahoma City).

In Kansas, low-income individuals are already protected from utility disconnection during the winter to avoid hypothermia deaths.  As dangerously hot weather becomes more frequent, we will also need to think about restructuring working hours and providing cooling centers on a systematic basis even if we don't actually mandate A/C in every single residence.

I'd also point out that window A/C, especially in structures that are not A/C-ready in terms of insulation and electricity service, is a poverty specification that reliably fails when it is needed the most.  (And, yes, I am aware just how loaded that phrase is.)

You should write to His Majesty to issue that black mold regulation!
Otherwise expecting occupational safety administration to cover residential accomodations is strange.

[J N Winkler]

Otherwise expecting occupational safety administration to cover residential accommodations is strange.

Sometimes OSHA standards are incorporated by reference into local ordinances and building codes, and they function more generally as a jumping-off point for what is considered acceptable in terms of human habitation.

[Bruce]

Smoke from wildfires in BC and WA will shift west to cover the Puget Sound region tomorrow. With temperatures over 85, a lot of people will have to make the tough choice between broiling in their homes or opening windows/using fans to let smoky air in

Thankfully less people are having to make that choice these days. I was just reading that over half the homes in Seattle metro have AC now.

That includes portable units (like mine), where an open window is necessary. It's not a solved issue until it's made mandatory by the state.

Why should the state (or any other governmental agency for that matter) make them mandatory?  Leave it up to the owners/renters.

We have a corporate slumlord problem. They will cheap out on so many aspects of new builds (while charging luxury prices) that the city has had to step in and up the minimum requirement. Such is life in a very messy housing market.

[kalvado]

Otherwise expecting occupational safety administration to cover residential accommodations is strange.

Sometimes OSHA standards are incorporated by reference into local ordinances and building codes, and they function more generally as a jumping-off point for what is considered acceptable in terms of human habitation.

A horrible approach with osha, honestly speaking.
Anyway, HUD apartment inspection criteria do exist..

[jakeroot]

Leave it up to the owners/renters.

Easy for you to say, new build construction in Illinois will almost certainly have air conditioning. This is not the case in the Pacific Northwest, where contractors have regularly, for decades, decided against AC because that's the way things have always been. Even though 80s, 90s, to 100+ is now normal (not everyday but a lot of days), and the apartments they are building go for $2000 to $4000 month, easy. Imagine paying $2500/month for an apartment without AC...that's a lot of the Seattle area.

[Max Rockatansky]

Let's pause for a second and consider that rent price range.  That's double to quadruple for what I pay on mortgage on a house less than twenty years old.  Not having AC is just the start of problems at those rates. 

[jakeroot]

Let's pause for a second and consider that rent price range.  That's double to quadruple for what I pay on mortgage on a house less than twenty years old.  Not having AC is just the start of problems at those rates.

To be completely clear, those rates are mostly on new-build construction, five-over-one and taller type of mixed used housing. Dense urban areas, very walkable, transit-friendly, etc.. You can find places for much less, but you're going to be looking at places that are 15-30 years old, and older. Maybe not the best location, not very walkable, and so on. Point being that new construction is the stuff that should have AC, and yet many places still don't. At least these days you normally get hookups for a portable unit. But like full-blown central air, not common at all.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm not disagreeing that AC should be part of the package.  I'm just gathering more reasons why not to apply for transfers to Puget Sound with those rental prices.  It's a beautiful area and I like visiting, just a shame it is so crowded that rent has spiked like that.

[jakeroot]

I'm not disagreeing that AC should be part of the package.  I'm just gathering more reasons why not to apply for transfers to Puget Sound with those rental prices.  It's a beautiful area and I like visiting, just a shame it is so crowded that rent has spiked like that.

The particular building I was looking at was in Renton, and prices ranged from 1bed/1bath for around $1700 to $3100+ for 2bed/2bath. Seattle or Bellevue proper just goes up from there, but you might actually start seeing central air in those really nice places.

So, yeah. I can understand the desire not to transfer there. Not least because, as this thread has shown, you certainly will not be escaping from wildfire smoke.

[Max Rockatansky]

Amusingly smoke is one of the my least concerns.  A couple years back I finished a handful of morning half marathons in Fresno when the AQI was over 300.  It was during the middle of COVID and knew it wasn't well advised.  I guess that I was bored and just wanted to see if I could pull it off. 

[jeffandnicole]

In nearly all states, heat is required.  In nearly all states, air conditioning is not required.  This is true even in the mild-winter, southern states of the country. 

If builders are not installing air conditioning systems, and people are still renting the apartments or buying the houses, what incentive is there for builders to install air conditioners?  If people stopped renting units with no a/c, builders would be incentivized to include a/c.  Simple as that.

[Scott5114]

If builders are not installing air conditioning systems, and people are still renting the apartments or buying the houses, what incentive is there for builders to install air conditioners?

Sounds like a market failure to be corrected by providing an incentive like 'not having to pay fines' or 'not going to jail'.

  If people stopped renting units with no a/c, builders would be incentivized to include a/c.  Simple as that.

Where are all of the people who are refraining from renting units with no AC going to stay instead? In the fucking lake?

You can't give people a choice between 'no AC' and 'no AC' and call that 'freedom'. That's not what that word means.

[jakeroot]

If builders are not installing air conditioning systems, and people are still renting the apartments or buying the houses, what incentive is there for builders to install air conditioners?  If people stopped renting units with no a/c, builders would be incentivized to include a/c.  Simple as that.

You need to legislate it because, unlike most of the country where everywhere already has AC and not having it would be seen as a massive drawback when trying to market the property, most apartments in the Seattle region already lack AC; I would guess in the realm of 80 to 90 percent of units have no air conditioning system built-in. Therefore it is simply seen as a positive when it's included, not seen as a negative when not included like it would be in most of the US. There is not going to be mass protests over a feature that most apartments already don't have anyway, and was even less common 20 years ago.

[jeffandnicole]

.

  If people stopped renting units with no a/c, builders would be incentivized to include a/c.  Simple as that.

Where are all of the people who are refraining from renting units with no AC going to stay instead? In the fucking lake?

Where are they living now?

You're acting as if people are forced to accept such conditions. No one is forcing them to move into an apartment without A/C. What if the rent was $7,500 a month? You gonna say that people are gonna be forced to pay that? If enough people refuse to rent a place, the owner or property manager has decisions to make.  If they have nearly every apartment rented, the people that are complaining either don't live there, or do Iive there and can move out on their own free will when the contract is up.

.
You can't give people a choice between 'no AC' and 'no AC' and call that 'freedom'. That's not what that word means.

They have a choice: Live elsewhere. If a/c is that important to them, they have to consider that in their job hunt, or whatever else factors in to their daily lives. If that means to move elsewhere, then that's part of the equation.

It's no different than if people move to an area where the best route to work involves tolls, then complain there's tolls. In most cases the tolls have existed for years if not decades; they didn't just pop up out of nowhere.