Arco Going Away?

[The High Plains Traveler]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-arco-20120317,0,5945101.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fmostviewed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+Viewed+Stories%29

"Oil giant BP will begin pulling out of Southern California next month as it steps up efforts to sell its sprawling Carson refinery and local Arco gasoline operations and lets leases expire on franchised Arco stations.

"BP has told about 100 station operators that have Arco franchises in the Southland that its leases on the sites will begin expiring in April. The property owner, Thrifty Oil Co. of Santa Fe Springs, has contracted with Texas refiner Tesoro Corp. to operate those sites.

As a result, the familiar red, white and blue Arco signs at those 100 stations will be replaced over the next two years by those of Tesoro's USA Gasoline brand." (more)

Not a big deal for me, since this brand does not appear elsewhere in the southwest except close in to California, and virtually all the stations in my area accept credit cards without any hassle. When I've traveled to California in the past couple of years, I have found that Arco stations won't accept my particular major bank debit card.  The name Arco dates back to before I began driving, when the Richfield Oil Company of California merged with east coast Atlantic Refining  to form Atlantic Richfield (Arco). They later became one of the first major gasoline marketers to offer cut-rate gasoline by not accepting credit cards.

Just another chapter in the evolution of American gasoline brand names.

[kphoger]

You should be happy:  Tesoro has a totally awesome logo.
I've only seen one, but have filled up at it many times:  in the teeny town of Waverly, MN, where my grandparents-in-law lived until just very recently.  I wondered if it was some local Minnesota/Wisconsin chain of gas stations, then was quite surprised to find out it was a huge company based in San Antonio  .

[agentsteel53]

good.  fuck Arco.  shitty gas, shitty payment options. 

I like the Tesoro Alaska logo.  The only place I have seen it is, indeed, in Alaska.

[Alex]

I won't miss Arco because of their debit card policy either.

[qguy]

Here in the Northeast, the red-white-and-black (red and white with black lettering) Atlantic signs changed to blue ARCO signs in the 70s when the aforementioned Atlantic-to-ARCO conversion took place. In the late 80s, ARCO resurrected the Atlantic brand when they rebranded all the ARCO stations in the region as Atlantic stations. (With blue Atlantic signs completely different from the old ones–I was disappointed.) Sometime in the late 90s, the Atlantic brand disappeared once again when ARCO sold all its Atlantic stations in the region to Sunoco.

So there has not been an ARCO presence in this region since sometime before 2000.

When ARCO resurrected the Atlantic brand, it created colocated convenience stores it call A+Plus mini-markets. Oddly, when Sunoco acquired the Atlantic stations, it never renamed the convenience stores. The name remains the same today. None of the original Sunoco stations had convenience stores, only repair shops. None of the Atlantic stations had repair shops, only convenience stores. So one can still ID which of the Sunoco stations were originally Atlantic stations by the presence of the orphaned A+Plus mini-markets. (I say "orphaned," but they are indeed owned and supported by Sunoco.)

[TheStranger]

I wonder if NorCal will end up being the last region with a strong Arco presence - though they did pull their sponsorship of what had been Arco Arena (now Power Balance Pavilion) in Sacramento last year.

[rschen7754]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

[Brandon]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

[roadfro]

I wonder if NorCal will end up being the last region with a strong Arco presence - though they did pull their sponsorship of what had been Arco Arena (now Power Balance Pavilion) in Sacramento last year.

Not sure if the Arco pulling out of Southern California also means they'll be pulling out of Las Vegas. Arco has a fairly strong presence in both Las Vegas and Reno/Carson City metro areas.

I didn't mind the 45-cent transaction fee on my debit card before, as the savings over other competitors made up for that. (I'm not picky about my gas...I've got an older pickup that I'm not too picky about.) However, since my bank started charging a monthly fee when using a debit card, I haven't gone to Arco as much--although that bank fee is no longer charged...

[kphoger]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

Yep.  Gas is gas.  Unless they're watering it down.  I've also heard to avoid filling up right after the tanks have been filled, as sediment will have been unsettled and floating around for a bit.  Don't know if that's true, though.  The main thing to check is the octane rating and additives, not the brand name sticker on the sign.  And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

[agentsteel53]

I've historically gotten 2-3mpg poorer performance with the ethanol-added gas, and that tends to negate the price advantage. 

plus, if I own the car, I wonder how much more wear and tear it is causing. 

I've sure got no problem filling up a rental car with it before returning it to the airport, though!

[formulanone]

I've historically gotten 2-3mpg poorer performance with the ethanol-added gas, and that tends to negate the price advantage.  

plus, if I own the car, I wonder how much more wear and tear it is causing.  

I noticed that as well with my older car, but I think most modern machinery handles it better thanks to computers that fine tune the air-fuel ratio better than before. Hadn't heard too much complaints from owners with late-model cars (if they were using the recommended octane rating) compared to those with cars about 10+ years old.

Basically, it's all the same fuel, it's all in the additives. I have heard of plenty of bad-gas stories, and occasionally, sometimes one grade of fuel just doesn't jive with a particular type of engine, for some essentially inexplicable reason. Usually the folks who hammer their performance cars tend to notice the little differences.

I think there's few instances where the increased amount of ethanol can seriously be traced to any litany of mechanical issues...but we'll have to wait and see. I would surmise the automakers would have been much more against the switch had there been some very obvious detriment to the longevity of the engine or exhaust.

[agentsteel53]

good point on the newer cars with better fuel-air ratio calculators.  the car in which I noticed the poorer gas mileage was a '99 Civic.

[Tarkus]

I've had some difficulties with putting Shell in my '02 Jetta Wagon, actually.  But I've had no issues elsewhere.  I usually fill up at Costco nowadays, though when there's not a Costco around, I tend to hit up Chevrons or 76s out of habit.  

I think I've been to an Arco station once, and that was mainly as I had gotten a gas card out of some Safeway deal.  I had no problems with their gas.

And FYI, the brand that the Southern Cal Arcos are getting turned into is USA, which is a brand Tesoro bought out a few years ago and has retained (and sadly, doesn't have as cool of a logo).  We recently started getting USA stations in Oregon (the Albertsons' stations have been getting converted over).

Oh, and I hate ethanol.  Of course, nothing really decreases your fuel mileage like having a cello in the back of your car.  I lose about 5mpg with it back there.

[agentsteel53]

Of course, nothing really decreases your fuel mileage like having a cello in the back of your car.  I lose about 5mpg with it back there.

is your car a convertible?  or, does your cello weigh 600 pounds?

I tend to drive around with 3-500 pounds of signs sometimes, and the mpg difference is barely perceptible.  2-3mpg, which is just barely differentiable from ordinary variation.

[Bickendan]

I've hauled around a 40-lb contrabass clarinet (clarinet itself was 17 lbs, the case 23; wooden frame case, metal clarinet) and a 30-lb contra alto clarinet (15 lb clarinet, ABS, 15 lb case) in my dad's old Ford Explorer and it didn't affect the mileage too much if at all. Can't see a cello (or a contrabass) affecting things too much.

[agentsteel53]

recall, a person, with accessories, is about 150-200 pounds.

driving with different quantities of people will affect your mileage, but not generally noticeably.

[Takumi]

I've never noticed much difference between mid grade (89) and premium (93) in my '91 Prelude, but I have seen differences, albeit minor, when filling at a place like Sheetz vs. BP or Shell. On my '95 I use premium exclusively (the manual says to, even before the JDM engine swap) and almost always go to Shell.

[kphoger]

In our minivan, the mileage fluctuates quite a bit.  The two main causes of lower economy are (1) revving the engine higher during acceleration and (2) colder weather.  When I decided to keep my eye on the tach needle, and not let it get over 2200 RPMs even while accelerating onto the highway, I saw a big jump in mileage.  On the open road, it still fluctuates some, depending on who does most of the driving, wind, etc.  On our trip from Minnesota to Wichita just after Christmas, we had the following in our van:

a deep freeze,
a wooden TV stand,
a pack-and-play,
luggage for a family of four,
toys,
a guitar,
Christmas presents,
pillows and blankets,
miscellaneous c.r.a.p.,
plus the four of us.

It was, in fact, the only time I've used a ratchet strap to secure cargo inside a car.  Our fuel economy was not affected by more than 1 or 2 MPG, if that.

The best fuel economy I've ever gotten was with our van fully loaded, going from Parras (Coahuila) to somewhere north of Laredo (TX).  I attribute the excellend mileage to an overall decrease in elevation combined with a lower-than-typical top cruising speed–not because Pemex fuel is so much more amazing than anything else.  In fact, I think I read a rumor that Pemex gets some of its gas from ARCO....but I seem to be unable to even Google that now.

(MOD NOTE: Ensuing discussion about crossing Mexico border split into its own topic, located here. –Roadfro)

Back to ARCO....  You're right, the USA Gasoline logo is decidedly less super-cool-awesome than the Tesoro logo.

[Brandon]

Well, their gas was crummy, so I won't be missing them.

Which is funny because it comes from the same refineries as any other gasoline.

Gas is gas.

Yep.  Gas is gas.  Unless they're watering it down.  I've also heard to avoid filling up right after the tanks have been filled, as sediment will have been unsettled and floating around for a bit.  Don't know if that's true, though.  The main thing to check is the octane rating and additives, not the brand name sticker on the sign.  And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

Well, gasohol is not worse for your car's performance (it actually has more oxygenates in it due to the alcohol), it can be worse for some cars' mileage.  As for watering it down, that only happens if the underground storage tank system is leaking somehow.  The state's EPA leaking underground storage tank section needs to get involved.

Now, if you see a difference between gas stations, go to each one consistently for a time.  Odds are, the one you think is giving worse mileage might have a problem with the counter on the pump (or someone tampered with it).  That's an issue for the state's weights and measures department.

[Scott5114]

miscellaneous c.r.a.p.,

Cello Restoratives And Polish? Or did you just mean "crap"?

[Takumi]

So, anyway....... How 'bout them ARCOs?

Don't know, never been to one.

[realjd]

And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

You aren't talking about the E-85 gas, are you? I'm surprised to hear that a regular, non flex fuel car can take that stuff without dying. If you're talking about regular gas with 10% ethanol, that's standard nationwide as far as I know. Around here the only places you can get ethanol-free gas are marinas because the boat engines can't take the ethanol without having serious mechanical problems.

[kphoger]

And, frankly, I still fill up with the ethanol-added gas in Iowa just because it's cheaper than regular, even though I suspect it's actually worse for my car's performance (I do not drive a 'performance car', BTW).

You aren't talking about the E-85 gas, are you? I'm surprised to hear that a regular, non flex fuel car can take that stuff without dying. If you're talking about regular gas with 10% ethanol, that's standard nationwide as far as I know. Around here the only places you can get ethanol-free gas are marinas because the boat engines can't take the ethanol without having serious mechanical problems.

I'm not talking about E-85.  Iowa only requires pump labels when more than 1% of the fuel is ethanol, so I'm pretty sure that, when Regular (no sticker) is $3.65 and Mid-grade (Ethanol sticker) is $3.53, filling up with Regular would not be putting 10% ethanol into your tank.  I choose the Mid-grade because the price is cheaper, even if (and I say 'if', since I haven't verified I even do) I sacrifice an MPG or two.

[realjd]

I'm not talking about E-85.  Iowa only requires pump labels when more than 1% of the fuel is ethanol, so I'm pretty sure that, when Regular (no sticker) is $3.65 and Mid-grade (Ethanol sticker) is $3.53, filling up with Regular would not be putting 10% ethanol into your tank.  I choose the Mid-grade because the price is cheaper, even if (and I say 'if', since I haven't verified I even do) I sacrifice an MPG or two.

Interesting. Maybe it's just due to the large number of boats, but the few non-marina gas stations with ethanol-free gas here advertise the hell out of it. They wouldn't do it quietly like your stations in Iowa apparently do.

Was premium also cheaper? Midgrade is usually just a 50/50 mix of regular and premium. Stations don't usually keep a tank of midgrade gas.