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Best Day of the Week for a Holiday

Started by webny99, January 02, 2025, 11:30:31 AM

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What is the best day of the week for a paid/federal holiday?

Sunday
Monday
Tuesday
Wednesday
Thursday
Friday
Saturday

webny99

#25
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 02, 2025, 01:24:26 PMAs I'm salaried, holiday pay doesn't apply.
What do you mean by that? You still get paid for the holiday, no?

The general question highlights the difference between people that have always been paid hourly (ie: retail workers, construction workers, etc) and don't understand the benefits had by many that are paid via salary (ie: office workers).

That may be in some cases, but I'm quite familiar with the difference between hourly vs. salary pay.




Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMTypically, and simply, salaried workers get paid based on the average of what they would earn a year.  Say they will be paid $100,000/year, and say they get paid every 2 weeks.  They get 3,846.15 (before taxes and deductions).  It doesn't matter when holidays fall during those pay periods.  It doesn't matter how many sick or vacation days they take (assuming they're not over their allowance). They're going to get that $3,846.15.  Their business informs them how many holidays they get per year.

Yep. Fully understood there.



Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMAs 1995hoo stated, when a holiday is on a Saturday, they get Friday off. When the holiday is on a Sunday, they get Monday off.  They don't 'lose' the holiday because it's on a weekend.

Yep. Fully understood there too, but that's not unique to those getting paid by salary. At my company, everyone gets that, regardless of whether they're salaried or paid hourly.

If they're salaried, assuming they didn't take any extra vacation days, they get their normal pay but it's recorded as 32 hours regular pay and 8 hours holiday pay.

If they're hourly, again assuming no extra vacation days, they get their normal hourly rate for their hours during the four work days, plus 8 hours pay for the holiday.




Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMFor hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

You've got me there. I've never heard of things being done this way for full time employees. Is this primarily a retail/part-time job thing, because employees get to choose what days they work? I can't imagine this working in any business that operates Monday-Friday only.





Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMUnless you love dealing with the public, you want to strive to get an office job in most cases.  The benefits are much better overall.

Having an office job doesn't guarantee a salary though, and vice versa. My company has both office and warehouse staff (no retail though) and it's a mix of both in both areas, with those in higher level positions more likely to be salaried.


Rothman

I'm salaried.  There's some weird arrangement where if a holiday falls on a Sunday, we get Monday off, but if it falls on a Saturday, we get a special kind of leave accrual that we can bank.

Might have the days backwards, since it's been a while.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

1995hoo

The instance of "Saturday holiday observed on Friday" that catches a lot of people by surprise is when New Year's Day falls on Saturday (which most recently occurred in 2022). The US government follows its standard principle when that happens: The holiday is observed on Friday, and it doesn't matter that this means it is observed in the previous calendar year. When that happens, a fair number of private-sector businesses—especially, in the DC area, law firms obsessed with their year-end collections—observe the holiday on Monday, January 3, instead. It's caused a fair amount of confusion in the DC area when you have a situation where one spouse works for the government and gets Friday off and the other works for a company that decides to observe Monday. I remember the law firm where I used to work got enough complaints that they gave people a choice of one day or the other, subject to approval to ensure "adequate staffing" in the various support services. The firm was not based in the DC area and I don't know whether the bulk of the complaints came from the DC office.

If you don't live in the DC area, it may be hard to appreciate just how significant an employer the US government is here. It's especially striking on holidays like, say, Veterans Day, which most of the private sector does not observe, due to the immense drop-off in rush-hour traffic.



An example of disparate handling of a Saturday holiday involves government workers who normally work Saturday. The obvious example with which most of us are familiar would be mailmen. The mail normally gets delivered on Saturday. So if, say, July 4 falls on Saturday, most government workers who do not work Saturday are given Friday off, but the mailmen get Saturday and mail is still delivered on Friday. If they got Friday off, they'd effectively get two holidays instead of one (because Saturday is a normal workday for them).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

WillWeaverRVA

Quote from: webny99 on January 02, 2025, 08:12:35 PMThe thing is, most people end up taking that single day off anyways. I get that's not always an option for everyone, but most people are probably subconsciously factoring in the likelihood of a four day weekend rather than working that single day.

Yup. 9 times out of 10 I'll just take the single day off unless I think there's a good reason to go into work that day (playing catch-up, etc).
Will Weaver
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"But how will the oxen know where to drown if we renumber the Oregon Trail?" - NE2

JayhawkCO

Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 06:31:12 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMFor hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

You've got me there. I've never heard of things being done this way for full time employees. Is this primarily a retail/part-time job thing, because employees get to choose what days they work? I can't imagine this working in any business that operates Monday-Friday only.

Depends on the company and their benefits packages. My company has 11 paid holidays, so even if you're hourly and don't work, you get paid for that day. If you do have to work that day, you get time and a half.

When I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

vdeane

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 02, 2025, 11:04:30 PMThe general question highlights the difference between people that have always been paid hourly (ie: retail workers, construction workers, etc) and don't understand the benefits had by many that are paid via salary (ie: office workers).

Typically, and simply, salaried workers get paid based on the average of what they would earn a year.  Say they will be paid $100,000/year, and say they get paid every 2 weeks.  They get 3,846.15 (before taxes and deductions).  It doesn't matter when holidays fall during those pay periods.  It doesn't matter how many sick or vacation days they take (assuming they're not over their allowance).  They're going to get that $3,846.15.  Their business informs them how many holidays they get per year.  As 1995hoo stated, when a holiday is on a Saturday, they get Friday off. When the holiday is on a Sunday, they get Monday off.  They don't 'lose' the holiday because it's on a weekend.

For hourly workers at stores, typically the day the holiday is on is when they qualify for holiday bonus pay. So if the holiday is on a Saturday, they get their 1.5 times pay (or whatever they get). They get nothing on Friday, while the office workers of the same company enjoy the day off while getting paid for it.

Unless you love dealing with the public, you want to strive to get an office job in most cases.  The benefits are much better overall.
And then there's the further distinction between "true hourly" workers (punch clock in/out, pay quoted in hourly amounts, paycheck fully determined by hours worked, full time and a half overtime, etc. - basically, retail/service workers) and "pseudo salary" workers (timesheet completed after the fact, pay quoted as annual salary, based on set 40 hour/week schedule, overtime is paid if working over 40 hours, though it might be straight time or some other arrangement instead of time and a half).  And, of course, on "true salary" you don't get anything extra if you end up working more than 40 hours a week.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 08:27:22 AMThe instance of "Saturday holiday observed on Friday" that catches a lot of people by surprise is when New Year's Day falls on Saturday (which most recently occurred in 2022). The US government follows its standard principle when that happens: The holiday is observed on Friday, and it doesn't matter that this means it is observed in the previous calendar year. When that happens, a fair number of private-sector businesses—especially, in the DC area, law firms obsessed with their year-end collections—observe the holiday on Monday, January 3, instead. It's caused a fair amount of confusion in the DC area when you have a situation where one spouse works for the government and gets Friday off and the other works for a company that decides to observe Monday. I remember the law firm where I used to work got enough complaints that they gave people a choice of one day or the other, subject to approval to ensure "adequate staffing" in the various support services. The firm was not based in the DC area and I don't know whether the bulk of the complaints came from the DC office.
Interesting.  I wonder if something like this is why the state of New York will have the observed day on Monday for holidays falling on Sunday, but give "holiday leave" if the holiday falls on Saturday.  Although the state fiscal year changes on April 1 and there aren't any holidays then, but even the federal government doesn't fully align on its own fiscal year starting in October (ex: taxes are by calendar year, not federal fiscal year).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SP Cook

To me, this is a simple question.

The US has 6 holidays that fall on a Monday by law.  One that is religious in nature and people would object if they tried to move it (Christmas), with the mathematically derived New Year's Day falling on the same day of the week a week later.  Then there is the Thursday holiday for Thanksgiving, which for most people, is followed by "black Friday" which isn't a holiday, but most non-service/non-retail jobs are off and most offices you have the lowest ranked person forced to come in and make a token effort (in my state, it is a state holiday by law), and I don't think anyone would get behind changing that either.  For many (most?) people, it is a four day weekend, and the "visit home" meme of it means it needs to be.

So that leaves two.  Independence Day, which is, well, also called the 4th of July, so I think we are stuck with it being on the, well 4th of July.  (My state also takes statehood day, June 20, which, is 14 days before and thus also always on the same day of the week, but that is just my small state and nobody but government workers gets it off anyway).

Leaving Veteran's Day.  It, too, was included in the Monday Holiday Bill, but was put back on November 11 at the request of WWI veterans a couple of years later.  Well, the last WWI veteran died in 2011.  The USA has fought dozens of wars since, one declared and many more not, none of which have November 11 as a special day.  So why not move it back to the second Monday in November.

So, as far as the law goes, every federal holiday should be a Monday, except for Christmas, New Year's Day and the 4th of July. 

As far as best and worst, Wednesday is the worst day for the three moveable holidays I mention above to fall.  It messes with, in the December/January case, two whole weeks of work, as you get stuck with skeleton crews both weeks (and the same for the one week in July as well).

The best day for the moveable holidays to fall is any day between Friday and Monday inclusive.

webny99

Quote from: SP Cook on January 03, 2025, 01:44:05 PMSo, as far as the law goes, every federal holiday should be a Monday Friday, except for Christmas, New Year's Day and the 4th of July. 

FTFY according to the official and legally binding AARoads Forum poll results.  :sombrero:

webny99

Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

1995hoo

Quote from: SP Cook on January 03, 2025, 01:44:05 PMTo me, this is a simple question.

The US has 6 holidays that fall on a Monday by law. ....

With all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October. I count five holidays that always fall on Monday by law, one that always falls on Thursday, and five with fixed dates:

  • New Year's Day (fixed date, January 1)
  • Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr. (always on third Monday in January)
  • Washington's Birthday (always on third Monday in February)
  • Memorial Day (always on last Monday in May)
  • Juneteenth National Independence Day (fixed date, June 19)
  • Independence Day (fixed date, July 4)
  • Labor Day (always on first Monday in September)
  • Columbus Day (always on second Monday in October)
  • Veterans Day (fixed date, November 11)
  • Thanksgiving Day (always on fourth Thursday in November)
  • Christmas Day (fixed date, December 25)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 02:13:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

The restaurant biz isn't known for it's employee-friendly policies. No such thing as a company-paid holiday for hourly employees. When I was a manager, I often had to work on the holiday itself, but I got a third day off in a week somewhere near that holiday to make up for it.

7/8

Any holiday between Friday and Monday is ideal as it will make a 3-day weekend (Saturday and Sunday holidays being transferred to the nearest weekday, at least for me).

But if I have to choose just one day of the week, it would be Monday. Having the 4-day work week after the 3-day weekend is a nice consolation for when the long weekend is over.

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.
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1995hoo

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

wanderer2575

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 03:52:59 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.

I don't know why the fourth Monday in October was picked, but my understanding is it was changed to a Monday instead of a date because -- surprise -- it created another three-day weekend.

1995hoo

Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 03, 2025, 04:24:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 03:52:59 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 03, 2025, 03:38:22 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 03, 2025, 02:13:32 PMWith all due respect, I think you are confused, unless you're referring to how Veterans Day used to be fixed on the last Monday in October.

Why on earth did they fix Veterans' Day in October? That seems weird to me. No wonder they moved it back to its original date.

I have no idea, and it seems peculiar that they fixed it two weeks after Columbus Day. November 11 at least has particular historical significance.

I don't know why the fourth Monday in October was picked, but my understanding is it was changed to a Monday instead of a date because -- surprise -- it created another three-day weekend.

Sure, I took the latter as a given, especially given that it happened as part of the Uniform Monday Holiday Act enacted in 1968 and effective in 1971! But I was responding to the query of why they chose a day in October.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

GaryV


ZLoth

From my perspective, I prefer a holiday be on either a Monday or a Friday. If it occurs on a Tuesday or Thursday, I'm going to burn a PTO day so that I can get an extended weekend.
Don't Drive Distrac... SQUIRREL!

formulanone

#43
Personally, I enjoy a holiday on a Wednesday because 99% of the time, I get to work from home instead of traveling and going to worksites. Admittedly, we're a bit inefficient because nobody wants to call meetings early on Mondays and Friday afternoons out of habit, and that sort of also spreads into the buffer days alongside a holiday, so they're lazy weeks at best, and I don't have to use PTO.

I was also used to a job for about three years which featured a Wednesday off for me, which was nice because your work "week" was limited to 2-3 days before coming up for air. It was better than my previous Sunday-Thursday stretch.

Whether a holiday falls on Mondays or Fridays doesn't matter much to me.

kkt

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 02, 2025, 11:54:14 AM(and I find it peculiar how Americans want Christmas Eve as a holiday instead of December 26).

That varies from family to family.  Christmas Day is definitely the bigger day for us:  opening stockings, Christmas breakfast, and opening the rest of the presents take up most of the day.

The Fourth of July should be on a Friday or Saturday each year.  If you go to the public fireworks show here you don't get back home until after 11, and it's misery to have to get up at the normal time for work afterwards.

Road Hog

Christmas and New Year's on a Wednesday is ass if you have stuff to get done. Two lost weeks.

(If you're just a worker with no responsibility, it's fantastic.)

CtrlAltDel

I have no strong feelings one way or another on the day of the week a holiday takes place, except perhaps a small disinclination to them taking place on the weekend.

As an academic, I would prefer actually that there be no holidays during the semester, but I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority on that, especially in the fall semester, since it would mean starting early enough that finals could take place before Thanksgiving.
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Scott5114

I voted Thursday because Thursdays suck and I wish people would stop trying to get me to do things on them.
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Rothman

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2025, 05:59:15 AMI voted Thursday because Thursdays suck and I wish people would stop trying to get me to do things on them.

Sounds like you could never get the hang of Thursdays.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

formulanone

#49
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 02:17:00 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 03, 2025, 02:13:10 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 03, 2025, 10:34:09 AMWhen I worked in restaurants, we had plenty of people who worked full time hours (32+ hours a week) and just worked Monday through Friday. On Christmas or Thanksgiving, the two days the restaurant was closed, if those days fell on a weekday (obviously Thanksgiving always did), they just didn't work that day and didn't get paid.

Wouldn't they still have some number of company-paid holidays that they would be able to use for those days?

The restaurant biz isn't known for it's employee-friendly policies. No such thing as a company-paid holiday for hourly employees. When I was a manager, I often had to work on the holiday itself, but I got a third day off in a week somewhere near that holiday to make up for it.

The car dealership industry isn't much better; depending on the size (mom-and-pop) and scope (how big a metro area is it located in) of the store, holidays are typically limited to New Year's Day, Easter, Independence Day, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. A little better than the big box brands, but certainly not on government workers' standards.

I worked one large store which literally had one true holiday for most employees: Christmas Day, except for a handful of sales folks who arranged Christmas morning new-car deliveries with a bow on it (for an additional charge, naturally). They were a rarity to be open seven days a week, which is a blue law in some other states. On the other hand, working Sunday-Thursday meant a short day to start the week (6 hours instead of 10-12), and you weren't mentally dragging your ass around for the first few hours of a Monday, and you'd have that childish grin on your face on Thursday afternoons. Customers were usually never angry about anything on a Sunday. Most looked at it as convenience and many of them let their stodgy guard down since work and other errands weren't hanging over their head.

At least we'd go by volunteers for the shorter double-pay days and draw straws for some of the others. Usually, I put myself on the line for Easter which freed me up for almost everything else that year. But yeah, most dealerships aren't closed for Veterans Day, Martin Luther King Day, or Columbus Day, to name a few. You could float a holiday on PTO, and some give you a "birthday" off to use as you please. Memorial Day wavers a little; some sell and service, but others do not. It's business as usual for anything else.



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