Fútbol chatter

[brownpelican]

Have yall been checking out any of the Copa America matches?

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I'm more interested on Euro 2016, which starts Friday.

Finally there were no surprises in La Liga and Barça (boooo) again won the title, with only one point over Real Madrid. Atlético fell after losing to already relegated Levante. At least this is not France, where PSG's domination is such Olympique Lyon (the runners-up) actually ended closer to relegation. Then there was the Champions League final, a repeat of 2014, but this time Real Madrid defeated Atlético on penalty shootouts. I was rooting for Atlético there.

[DandyDan]

Have yall been checking out any of the Copa America matches?

Would like to, but my work schedule doesn't help matters much.  USA did beat Costa Rica 4-0 yesterday.

[rawmustard]

Have yall been checking out any of the Copa America matches?

I caught the opening match but did not watch last night. I do want to catch some of Euro, but obviously most of those matches are scheduled during my work hours.

[Bruce]

Mexico loses 7-0, while USA pulls through to the semis.

It's been a good week in the Copa!

[english si]

I do want to catch some of Euro, but obviously most of those matches are scheduled during my work hours.

Ditto Europe - well, a third of the games before today anyway with kick offs at 1500 CEST. I gather that the England-Wales match at 2pm on Tuesday meant half the country just took long late lunch breaks while the other half were simply allowed to watch it at school/work*.

*Lucky, as I had an England-Brazil quarter final at Japan/Korea in 2002 clash with an important exam (GCSE English). I gather some schools came up with a system that allowed them to begin the exam late so they could watch the last half hour under supervision so that they couldn't get messages about content from other takers of the exam, and then take the exam a little bit later. We were invited to watch the first half at school or could watch it at home, then come in at 9am (when the second half started) to be ready to start the exam at 9:15, with the second half being shown to us on tape delay after the exam. Some troll who was one of the first out of the exam when it had finished, found out the score on his phone (which was some effort, given he had to get it out of his bag, turn it back on, text someone who wasn't the same age as us, and get a response within about 30 seconds) and then preceded to tell everybody that we'd lost.

[Desert Man]

Have yall been checking out any of the Copa America matches?

Si! There was the Copa de America Chile vs Colombia (won by Chile) match in Chicago's Soldier Field...something tells me Chile can come out as this year's champs. The rest of the southern cone of South America (Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay) always seemed the world's best. Euro 2016 news: Poland first in the quarterfinals, then keep your eyes out on the advancing teams England, France, Germany (my prediction they win the finals), Italy, Portugal and Spain (edit: eliminated).

With Euro 2016 and Copa America 2016 (its centennial) in the sports pages, what about MLS and other pro soccer leagues in the US and Canada? In southern CA, we have the LA Galaxy and the new LA Football Club ("Wings"), and the new California Sunshine in Long Beach, Orange County Blue Stars, San Diego Sockers and Temecula FC ("Quails") in the semi-pro level.

The MLS currently has 24 teams, but they could expand again by the end of this decade. Maybe 32-34 teams (their conferences can hold up to 16-17 each) with new teams in CA, TX and FL - the Miami or Fort Lauderdale, and Tampa or St. Petersburg teams can be revived to honor the 1970s NASL and 1990's teams: the FL or Miami Strikers/Fusion and Tampa Bay Rowdies/Mutiny.

And the lesser leagues are continuations of some NASL teams: the Rochester NY Rhinos/Rampage, Tacoma (or Seattle) Stars, and Wichita Wings/Aeros, to name a few. In the 1990s, there was the Continental Indoor Soccer League fielded teams come to mind like the Anaheim Splash in the Honda Center (then called the Arrowhead Pond), Sacramento Knights in the old Arco Arena, San Diego Sockers and San Jose Gold when the HP Center first opened.

[english si]

if North American soccer worked more like a traditional soccer league, rather than the US sports' franchise system, then there's no reason why there couldn't be 48 pro teams in the US+Canada in three divisions of 16 (one top one, two lower ones divided by geography with a play off system to decide promotion/relegation*) that also take part in an FA cup-style cup contest that also includes college teams, etc.

That's 30 league games each season, maybe 4 play off games, and say 6 cup ties (should they be in the lower divisions and play an extra round). Perfectly doable.

*designed to keep it fluid and the gap small, with say 6 teams switching, with top two of E/W divisions going up, bottom two of top division going down and 4 teams from each division having 4-match (home and away with two other teams) mini leagues with winners playing in the top division next season and the other two playing in the second tier divisions.

[Desert Man]

if North American soccer worked more like a traditional soccer league, rather than the US sports' franchise system, then there's no reason why there couldn't be 48 pro teams in the US+Canada in three divisions of 16 (one top one, two lower ones divided by geography with a play off system to decide promotion/relegation*) that also take part in an FA cup-style cup contest that also includes college teams, etc.

That's 30 league games each season, maybe 4 play off games, and say 6 cup ties (should they be in the lower divisions and play an extra round). Perfectly doable.

*designed to keep it fluid and the gap small, with say 6 teams switching, with top two of E/W divisions going up, bottom two of top division going down and 4 teams from each division having 4-match (home and away with two other teams) mini leagues with winners playing in the top division next season and the other two playing in the second tier divisions.

Soccer isn't the #1 sport in the US/Canada, then I realize there's plenty of room to double the MLS from 24 to (good lord) 48 teams, include Mexican professional leagues or teams to the lineup. Regional cups, for example, the Cascadia cup, can work in other regional rivalries, as stated in my post on the Sports Realignment thread. The "Southland Cup": the LA Galaxy and Wings and fictitious San Diego, "NorCal Cup": San Jose, Sacramento and who knows Fresno, "Texas Cup": Fort Worth-Dallas, Houston and Austin and "Southwest Cup" : the fantasy expansion El Paso, Las Vegas and Tucson teams.

[english si]

48 pro teams isn't that hard - in fact, excluding explicit reserve sides that I spotted (there's probably a few I missed), we can get 60 - perhaps 4 divisions of 16 are possible - especially given the expansion rate of the existing leagues:
1) Chicago Fire
2) Columbus Crew
3) D.C. United
4) Montreal Impact
5) New England Revolution
6) NYC FC
7) NY Red Bulls
8) Orlando City
9) Philadelphia Union
10) Toronto FC
11) Colorado Rapids
12) FC Dallas
13) Houston Dynamo
14) LA Galaxy
15) Portland Timbers
16) Real Salt Lake
17) San Jose Earthquakes
18) Seattle Sounders
19) Sporting Kansas City
20) Vancouver Whitecaps
21) Carolina RailHawks
22) Edmonton
23) Fort Lauderdale Strikers
24) Indy Eleven
25) Jacksonville Armada
26) Miami FC
27) Minnesota United
28) New York Cosmos
29) Ottowa Fury
30) Puerto Rico FC
31) Rayo OKC
32) Tampa Bay Rowdies
33) San Fransisco Deltas
34) Atlanta United
35) Minnesota United
36) Los Angeles FC
37) Bethlehem Steel
38) Charleston Battery
39) Charlotte Independence
40) FC Cincinnatti
41) Harrisburg City Islanders
42) Louisville City
43) FC Montreal
44) Pittsburgh Riverhounds
45) Richmond Kickers
46) Rochester Rhinos
47) Wilmington Hammerheads
48) Arizona United
49) Colorado Springs Switchbacks
50) Oklahoma City Energy
51) Orange County Blues
52) Rio Grande Valley FC Toros
53) Sacramento Republic
54) Saint Louis FC
55) San Antonio FC
56) Swope Park Rangers KC
57) Tulsa Roughnecks
58) Austin Aztex
59) Reno 1868
60) Nashville

[Big John]

^^ 27 and 35 are the same.

[Desert Man]

Replace 35) with El Paso (apparently, Austin's is called Aztex, in my version the Tejano, the Aztex name for El Paso). 60 teams is a crowd, I'm sure there are up to 90 men's pro and semi-pro, and 10 women's teams (National Women's soccer League) in the US/Canada. 16 team divisions? Then you expanded it by 4 more: "New" Memphis Rogues, Mobile Bucs, Tacoma Stars and Wichita Aeros as reincarnations of NASL teams of the 1970s-80s.

[english si]

60 teams is a crowd

I went through and listed current and future (confirmed) pro-teams from wikipedia. I know MLS does expand to take in new teams (and presumably can chuck out really bad teams?), but as someone used to the way it is done everywhere else, the closed-shop nature of it is baffling to me, and remodelling the leagues - while I'm doing it just as a thought experiment - seems a bit fairer and adds more importance to not finishing bottom (there's no draft is there, like in NFL, where teams that are come bottom get rewarded with choice draft picks?)

[DandyDan]

So how about England losing to Iceland 2-1?  Maybe in the future, the Vatican can get a team and beat England.

[english si]

So how about England losing to Iceland 2-1?  Maybe in the future, the Vatican can get a team and beat England.

Well if we play with the nonsense tactics that didn't work against Russia (the most populous country, but worst team of the tournament) in the opening match, let alone the better Iceland, then maybe the Vatican wouldn't get thrashed.

But then again, I was in Wembley when a lacklustre (I nearly fell asleep so dull and uninspired were England) England put 5 past San Marino without trying, and with similar tactics of having 3 up front, 2 very attacking players just behind, 1 defensive midfielder and 4 at the back that really functioned like 4 up front, 1 just behind, 2 at the back with 1 just infront and 2 wingers running back and forth. Iceland and Russia weren't massively terrible, hence why they qualified for the tournament, but England treated both teams as if they were one of the filler teams in the qualifiers.

Iceland beat Portugal in their group's standings (and should have beaten the team themselves) and yet we treated them as if they were Macedonia or something - we underestimated them hugely and paid the price. We lost it at the team announcement - I groaned massively half an hour before the start, losing all hope, and it was only that we did create something and win a penalty that I held out hope of an England equaliser for the last 70 minutes. Also Rashford came on too late - he was creating some spark, and with three times longer on the pitch (15 instead of 5 minutes) the story might have been different.

Iceland's first goal was from a throw-in. They stood exactly the same place as they always do, and somehow little Rooney was marking a tall Icelandic player. The pundits were saying that there were another two mistakes in it, all of which were so stupid as to suggest that something was badly wrong on the training pitch and we prepared poorly for the game.

Iceland-Wales final OK, that's a little unlikely, but:
- Italy will beat Germany as they always do.
- France who (despite having a sensible time to recover from their previous match, unlike Ireland) looked ordinary against Ireland will struggle against Iceland, and the only thing that might get them across the winning line is that they are hosts.
- Iceland, having beaten England and France, would certainly give Italy a run for their money and while it is two tight games, a final place is far from impossible (see also Greece in 2004)
- Wales have a seemingly easier draw than Iceland to get to the final, though still not an easy one: Belgium (who didn't beat Wales in qualifying, but are favourites) and either Poland or Portugal (who looked a lot better at the back with Fonte helping Pepe, but they really aren't creating chances at the other end unless the other team lets them). Again, it's doable, but double underdogs.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Spain is also out, so media now won't be filled with (association) football. They referred to England's elimination as 'brexit'. I'd like to see England beaten by either Gibraltar, Montserrat, or American Samoa.

[Bruce]

Germany has won against Italy, despite three missed penalties (the first in a shootout for them since 1982). An amazing finish to the game.

Also, no mention of the Copa America Final and the Argentinian fallout that followed?

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Wales is now in semi-finals , as they topped Belgium. Today is the last match of quarter-finals, France-Iceland, at 9:00 p.m. local and my time (3:00 p.m. Eastern). I really want a Wales-Iceland final.

[english si]

Germany has won against Italy

Shock result! Though Germany do tend to win on penalties when it comes to that.

They referred to England's elimination as 'brexit'.

That joke was tired in the UK and thankfully didn't happen - not only did we have "that's the second time this week Wales have taken Northern Ireland out of Europe" with the Round of 16 game, but Liverpool's and Man City's woeful performances in the Europa League final* and Champions League semi-final second leg respectively meant the UK was treated to referendum flavoured jokes about how those teams wanted to leave Europe, etc.

*And on the last day of the Premier League season too for Liverpool, IIRC - Liverpool had three games where not losing would give them European football last season - the Carling Cup final and last game of the season (a win would have put them 6th) would have put them in the Europa League, and the Europa League final would have put them in the Champions League. They lost all three without putting up a fight.

[Desert Man]

Whoever wins Euro 2016 finals is projected to play the Copa America winner Chile in the 2018 World Cup. Just saying the two best teams in the world can go far in the next soccer tournament. My prediction is DEUTSCHLAND! (Germany) beats Cymry (Wales, the UK) in the Euro 2016 final.

And back to US soccer teams, you have regional rivalries in smaller soccer leagues: Detroit MI vs. Toledo OH vs. Windsor, Ont (think of it as the Michigan-Ohio war or the US-Canadian war), Lincoln NE vs. Omaha NE (the Nebraska civil war) and Yuma Az vs. Mexicali BC (the US-Mexican war). Remember, it's only a game, but Europeans display national pride in soccer matches and sometimes, like observed in Euro 2016, fan riots uses nationalism as an excuse for violence.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

*And on the last day of the Premier League season too for Liverpool, IIRC - Liverpool had three games where not losing would give them European football last season - the Carling Cup final and last game of the season (a win would have put them 6th) would have put them in the Europa League, and the Europa League final would have put them in the Champions League. They lost all three without putting up a fight.

Now that is bad luck. And Sevilla clinched its third Europa League in a row! They were put on the Champions League after last year's win (thus marking the first time ever five teams from a single country were competing there), but somehow managed to get back to their 'home' Europa League.

Another team struck by bad luck was Real Zaragoza (again). Despite having a good opportunity to qualify for promotion play-offs as regional rivals SD Huesca had beaten Osasuna, they lost 6-1 to an already relegated Llagostera, forcing them to stay another season in Segunda División La Liga 2. All other times Real Zaragoza and a team from Huesca (UD Huesca back in the 50s, SD Huesca in recent times) met during the season the former got promoted. Eventually Osasuna made it through the play-offs and got promoted back to La Liga.

[english si]

(thus marking the first time ever five teams from a single country were competing there)

When Liverpool won it in 2005(?) and finished outside the CL qualification places they were allowed to defend their title by kicking a team out of the first qualifying round of the CL into the Europa League.

Initially Welsh Team (from about 45 miles away - Liverpool being the nearby big city and big football club) TNS offered a play off with the winner getting the CL qualifying round 1 place that TNS earned and the loser getting the UEFA Cup spot that Liverpool had earned. Who did Liverpool draw in the first qualifying round? That's right, TNS.

That year there were 6 English teams in the CL, as TNS play their games in England (Oswestry - it was a merger of a Welsh team and an English team that took the English team's stadium and Welsh team's league position) . 5 English league clubs though.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Today at 9:00 p.m. local (and my) time (3:00 p.m. Eastern) is the Euro 2016 final. Spain will be succeeded by one of its neighbors. Who will win? Here are the anthems of the finalists.
Portugal - A Portuguesa

France (host) - La Marselleise (Only the first verse is sung)

Now I think, when Wales played England and Northern Ireland, was God Save the Queen played twice? Or only one anthem was played?

[english si]

Wales has its own anthem: Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE

NI and England football teams use GSTQ, but most other sports where England and NI compete see the teams use a different anthem. Jerusalem is what English (and the England and Wales Cricket team) teams that aren't football currently use, though in the past Land of Hope and Glory has been used (and while it's jingoist claptrap, it's still a bazillion times better than that awful song Jerusalem that somehow the public loves and thus it wins polls despite being terrible). Northern Ireland uses Londonderry Air at the Commonwealth Games and perhaps some other times (but I'm not sure what NI has it's own team for other than the Commonwealth Games and Football).

And, for the record, the Scottish have Flower of Scotland, though Scotland the Brave has been used in the past.

[Bruce]

Portugal wins 1-0, off an Eden goal (that was unlikely...) and Ronaldo went off injured but stayed active on the sideline the entire match like a true leader.