I.E., little things that tick the roadgeek in you off.
For example, I HATE when people write interstate #'s like: I-70 = 1-70. It just ain't right. :banghead: :pan: :thumbdown:
When they (in my case the Manitoba Ministry of Infrastructure and Transportation, MIT) cancels a much-needed road upgrade such as the Perimeter Hwy in Winnipeg, and instead installs a new at-grade traffic light intersection there. :angry: :verymad:
Calling it "the 5" or "the 90". This ain't SoCal, you transplant scum.
Also, people mixing up shields when making maps. It's simple enough to google it and pull up a Wikipedia article with the correct (and free-license/public domain) shield to use.
It's "Lake Shore Drive", three words, not two (i.e. "Lakeshore Drive"). It even says so on all the street blades and green signs. And yes, you can call it "LSD" and "The Drive". No one calls it "Route 41".
People saying US 30 ends in California...
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
–Traffic lights located on the near side of an intersection such that you either have to stop well back of the stop line or else bend your head down to see the light.
–"Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs. Use "Keep Right Except to Pass." People don't like to think they're "slow," and too many people think driving the speed limit means you're not "slower."
–"Reduced Speed Ahead" signs. I much prefer the style telling you what the reduced speed limit will be. But if you must use the generic sign, it should say "Reduce Speed Ahead" because it's the speed limit that is reduced and the sign is telling you to prepare to slow down to conform with that. In other words, whether any "speed" is actually reduced depends on the individual driver.
–The annoying American predilection for stop signs when yield signs would do.
–Traffic lights that don't have the very nice combined red/yellow phase used in the UK and many other places in Europe that tells you when the light is about to turn green. I've never understood why this isn't used everywhere.
- 4 way stop sign intersections being used as speed control.
- clearview font
- when street name signs are missing or intentionally posted in a way that makes it hard to see, like spray painting the name on a wood stick. Or the common new England thing of only posting the side street instead of both.
- roundabouts on major highways, Riverhead NY has a few bad ones (the County Route 58 and Roanoke Ave one in particular) that slow things down rather than moving traffic efficiently.
- Putting stop signs at entrances to a Traffic Circle/Roundabout.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 01, 2015, 08:43:14 PM
–"Reduced Speed Ahead" signs. I much prefer the style telling you what the reduced speed limit will be. But if you must use the generic sign, it should say "Reduce Speed Ahead" because it's the speed limit that is reduced and the sign is telling you to prepare to slow down to conform with that. In other words, whether any "speed" is actually reduced depends on the individual driver.
In that same vein, I dislike "Speed Zone Ahead" signs. Even though I may be in a rural area where the limit isn't posted, it's assumed to be 55. Sounds like a speed zone to me. Unless they're telling me that I can speed in the zone that's up ahead of me.
Quote from: Brandon on September 01, 2015, 03:29:06 PM
It's "Lake Shore Drive", three words, not two (i.e. "Lakeshore Drive"). It even says so on all the street blades and green signs. And yes, you can call it "LSD" and "The Drive". No one calls it "Route 41".
Yep. I hate when words are compounded together when they are meant to be separate. There's a road near where I grew up that is spelled High Point Road but was sloppily resigned by the county as Highpoint Road.
I also hate redundant names like Marketplace Drive and Broadway Road. The suffix is already in the name! It's the redundancy department of redundancy.
iPhone
Quote from: Laura on September 09, 2015, 04:23:28 AMI also hate redundant names like Marketplace Drive and Broadway Road. The suffix is already in the name! It's the redundancy department of redundancy.
With you on the second one, but the "place" in the common compound word "marketplace" isn't "Place," the street suffix.
The street name "Auto Mall Parkway"
Connecticut "Phase III" signs (button copy outline instead of black on white shields)
California BGS design in general
Four-lane arterials in busy areas with no center lane and minimal left-turn pockets, so you're frequently stuck behind someone waiting to turn left
Numbered highways that just end without proper signage (CT 176, CT 71A)
Interchanges where left exits/entrances could have been removed when the interchange was built in 1964 (CT 2/17)
Overlaps that are basically signed like a gap in the secondary road (I-84/US 6)
Interstate services signs which vaguely refer to "Food"..."Gas"..."Lodging", when there aren't any immediately off of said exit. My mom had a good pre-GPS rule for that stuff. If you can't see it or its sign from the highway, it's not there.
Sequential exit numbers, because they don't correspond to the mileage on the highways. Back when the majority of the Interstates were under construction they were fine, but now I prefer mileage-based exits.
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on September 09, 2015, 11:20:01 AM
Interstate services signs which vaguely refer to "Food"..."Gas"..."Lodging", when there aren't any immediately off of said exit. My mom had a good pre-GPS rule for that stuff. If you can't see it or its sign from the highway, it's not there.
That's a good rule. I have seen some service signs before that have arrows along with the mileage (i.e. 1/4 mile left) along the actual offramp. That's helpful.
Some of you have already covered mine, but here are others that haven't been covered;
-Unfinished roads.
-Development that blocks the completion of those unfinished roads.
-Use of incorrect designations for roads by TV Traffic reporters. An example would be East Moriches-Riverhead Road being shown as New York State Route 51 when it's actually Suffolk County Road 51.
People who aren't roadgeeks.
New York drivers.
People not calling freeways in cities by name.
The word "the".
Everything else.
Use of black-on-yellow plates for road names when they're comounted with warning signs,as though there's some danger associated with that particular road. White on green for that, OK?
The 2009 MUTCD, especially how freeway exits with one dropped and one option lane are treated. And yield signs at railroads. :rolleyes:
Street name signs places in this fashion: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9848328,-86.1744054,3a,15y,124.14h,86.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stUFGMsptzDN7M95uHk4UGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Impossible to read, both signs need to face outward. like this: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9195898,-86.1650643,3a,15y,137.86h,92.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK6phHNRnwT7BpQAIfVgwZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
another one for me is: "roundabouts are more dangerous" NOT true or "traffic signals make things safer" NOT true either (can be under certain circumstances)
When the new missing kid signs aren't being used for missing kids or road closures, they should be displaying driving tips like using your goddamn turnsignals, not texting while driving, slowing down when the roads are coated in ice (no one in Wisconsin is aware of that one), not running over the guys trying to fix the damn road, etc.
Quote from: Jardine on September 10, 2015, 10:52:30 AM
When the new missing kid signs aren't being used for missing kids or road closures, they should be displaying driving tips like using your goddamn turnsignals, not texting while driving, slowing down when the roads are coated in ice (no one in Wisconsin is aware of that one), not running over the guys trying to fix the damn road, etc.
I would rather see travel times (for example, in moderate traffic: 10 miles, 15 minutes)
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
Quote from: Tom958 on September 09, 2015, 06:39:53 PM
The 2009 MUTCD, especially how freeway exits with one dropped and one option lane are treated. And yield signs at railroads. :rolleyes:
Thank you Tom! I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks the MUTCD screwed that up royally! :cheers:
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 01, 2015, 04:05:03 PM
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
Arkansas will make you pull your teeth out with pliers. :wow:
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
I grew up in Oregon so everyone with even a basic understanding of the highways here knows what US-30 is. Or at least, they wouldn't think it was in California, even if they may not understand that it is multiplexed with I-84 for a significant distance and continues cross-country (I bet many people think it's a short highway from Portland to Astoria, and maybe know of "Historic US 30" in the Columbia Gorge). It does make me wonder what people from Oregon would answer if I asked where they thought US-20 (I'll use this instead of 30 because it's a highway on its own, not multiplexed with an Interstate most of the way) ended. I wonder how many people would answer something like Ontario or Caldwell.
My only other theory is that US-30 generally follows I-80 for a lot of its distance, before splitting away in Wyoming and following I-86 and I-84. Maybe some assume it generally follows I-80 all the way to SF.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It
starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Technically, they're correct, and you're wrong. With the grid, US-2 is in the north, and US-1 is in the east, hence for US highways, they start north or east and end south or west. Interstates are the reverse.
Quote from: Brandon on September 10, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Technically, they're correct, and you're wrong. With the grid, US-2 is in the north, and US-1 is in the east, hence for US highways, they start north or east and end south or west. Interstates are the reverse.
I will not be made a fool of by this... this... sixth-grade class!
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
'Pends. If you're heading westward (which is what they said, the western terminus was in gosh darn California...yet I know US 30 ends in Oregon...), its end point is Astoria.
The end closest to me is the beginning, the other side of the country is the end-that, in my mind, is irrefutable (lol).
Quote from: Brandon on September 10, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Technically, they're correct, and you're wrong. With the grid, US-2 is in the north, and US-1 is in the east, hence for US highways, they start north or east and end south or west. Interstates are the reverse.
Don't the mileposts typically increase when driving east or north?
Quote from: vtk on September 11, 2015, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: Brandon on September 10, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Technically, they're correct, and you're wrong. With the grid, US-2 is in the north, and US-1 is in the east, hence for US highways, they start north or east and end south or west. Interstates are the reverse.
Don't the mileposts typically increase when driving east or north?
Yes, he is refering the the increasing of numbered highways, US 1 increasing to US 101 going west and the reverse with interstates, I-5 to I-97 going east.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
'Pends. If you're heading westward (which is what they said, the western terminus was in gosh darn California...yet I know US 30 ends in Oregon...), its end point is Astoria.
Of course, looking at a map, you can easily determine that US 30 doesn't go to California, but there may be two points of confusion:
1) Lincoln Highway. Lincoln Highway went from NY to San Francisco. Most of the Lincoln Highway, from Philadelphia to Wyoming (including the portion in Chambersburg) is along US 30 (or business US 30), and conversely, most of US 30 is along the Lincoln Highway. Some people may confuse the two.
2) On a national scale, US 30 is relatively straight east-west in the Eastern US. If you were to head along that latitude, you would end up in northern California. But the actual road, makes a big turn to the northwest to head to Idaho and the northern end of Oregon.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 11, 2015, 09:40:07 AM
Quote from: vtk on September 11, 2015, 07:34:24 AM
Quote from: Brandon on September 10, 2015, 06:44:52 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
Technically, they're correct, and you're wrong. With the grid, US-2 is in the north, and US-1 is in the east, hence for US highways, they start north or east and end south or west. Interstates are the reverse.
Don't the mileposts typically increase when driving east or north?
Yes, he is refering the the increasing of numbered highways, US 1 increasing to US 101 going west and the reverse with interstates, I-5 to I-97 going east.
I got that. I just think going by the numbers of intersecting routes (which aren't strictly intersected in order) is a silly way to define which end of a route is the beginning and which is the end. The mileage along the route itself seems to me much better suited for that: clearly mile 0 is at the beginning of the route. If the beginnings of the transcontinental US routes were meant to be on the east coast, the mileage should have increased from east to west. Note, I don't actually know that this wasn't the case initially. Can someone confirm or refute?
Most routes increase mileage from west to east or south to north. It is done this way to keep notations consistent and give reassurance to what direction you are driving in regard to the route number the mileage is tied to. Though there are exceptions like the I-294 tollway in Illinois or the New York Thruway.
If you are looking at roadway plans, the stationing (numbers telling the plan reader where you are in the project, usually measured in feet with a + sign in the middle) will also advance from west to east or north to south on the mainline of the project (crossroads have different rules and may not follow this convention). Though I have seen old roadway plans go the opposite of this.
Quote from: mrsman on September 11, 2015, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 08:45:54 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 10, 2015, 06:32:10 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 10, 2015, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on September 10, 2015, 05:20:28 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People actually think that? I'm trying to think of an excuse that would make people think that, but I can't think of one.
In Chambersburg and my classmates refused for me to correct them that US 30 ends at Astoria, OR, about 200 miles south of Seattle.
See, that's where you're wrong. It starts in Astoria. It ends in Atlantic City.
'Pends. If you're heading westward (which is what they said, the western terminus was in gosh darn California...yet I know US 30 ends in Oregon...), its end point is Astoria.
Of course, looking at a map, you can easily determine that US 30 doesn't go to California, but there may be two points of confusion:
1) Lincoln Highway. Lincoln Highway went from NY to San Francisco. Most of the Lincoln Highway, from Philadelphia to Wyoming (including the portion in Chambersburg) is along US 30 (or business US 30), and conversely, most of US 30 is along the Lincoln Highway. Some people may confuse the two.
2) On a national scale, US 30 is relatively straight east-west in the Eastern US. If you were to head along that latitude, you would end up in northern California. But the actual road, makes a big turn to the northwest to head to Idaho and the northern end of Oregon.
It's regular US 30 here in Chambersburg. But yeah, most people here confuse US 30 for the Lincoln Highway.
That turn that US 30 does is just west of Rock Springs, Wyoming where US 30 heads toward Cokeville and US 191. It splits off from I-80 at exit 66. But you all knew that.
Signs that manage to screw up basic design principles like centering and margins. Everyone should know how to center a line of text, and the margin and line spacing guidelines are in the freakin' manual.
The lack of the most basic of proofreading that allows sign legends like "Emergency Stopping Olny" to be hung ever make it into production, much less make it out of the shop.
1. Ridiculously low speed limits. Being from the Chicago area, these are everywhere.
2. People that don't slow down in construction zones when workers are present. The workers are doing their jobs without the protective cage drivers have.
3. Maps, usually in ads, that don't know the right type of routes. There is no Interstate 45 or US 43 around here.
4. Lanes ending with little or no warning.
5. People thinking the Interstates are the only way to get from one place to another. Sometimes a US or state route works just as well.
6. Share the road/bike lanes. Bicycles and cars were not designed to be on the same pathways. Build a nice grid of bike streets instead.
7. Left lane drivers.
8. Routes like US 52 that are signed north-south in some states and east-west in others. Pick a direction and stick with it.
Quote from: Super Mateo on September 17, 2015, 11:30:53 AM
1. Ridiculously low speed limits. Being from the Chicago area, these are everywhere.
2. People that don't slow down in construction zones when workers are present. The workers are doing their jobs without the protective cage drivers have.
If there's a concrete barrier, then 45 mph fits #1 above. I personally like how Michigan does it: 60 mph in the zone, 45 mph
if and only if workers are present
and separated
only by cones or barrels. If they are separated by a concrete barrier, it's 60 mph.
Quote from: Brandon on September 17, 2015, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: Super Mateo on September 17, 2015, 11:30:53 AM
1. Ridiculously low speed limits. Being from the Chicago area, these are everywhere.
2. People that don't slow down in construction zones when workers are present. The workers are doing their jobs without the protective cage drivers have.
If there's a concrete barrier, then 45 mph fits #1 above. I personally like how Michigan does it: 60 mph in the zone, 45 mph if and only if workers are present and separated only by cones or barrels. If they are separated by a concrete barrier, it's 60 mph.
I really like the "active work zone" signs used in some states that flash when the work zone speed limits are pertinent.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 01, 2015, 04:05:03 PM
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
Agreed, especial Indiana, who pretends that the routes end an their "beltway" routes, and provides no signs to direct people to the other side of the city. Either sign a multi-plex, or return the route to its original route, and just have the city/county be responsible for maintenance. The current way is stupid, evil, confusing, and wrong.
I hate when construction workers goof off and take weeks to do a project that should be done in days. One such project is Wetherbee Road in Orlando that workers began late in July to put the final coating of asphalt on the newly dualized roadway. Still just about two months later, only the Eastbound lanes is fully paved with still only half of the Westbound lanes being paved and its single file on both sides of the divided roadway. The project limits is from Balcomb Road to Orange Avenue which is about a mile and all the final landscaping and the storm drains have been long done.
Also John Young Parkway has a repaving project underway from the Osceola County Line to FL 528, which is almost 4 miles of six lane highway. They have been doing one lane at a time at least .4 miles a lane, however this past week the workers disappeared and halted work on doing the NB center lane (as the nb right and sb right are completely milled with the first coat deployed and part of the NB center lane from the County Line to Town Center Blvd.) since this past Monday.
Whatever happened to excessive fines for days over the projected finish date?
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 17, 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 01, 2015, 04:05:03 PM
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
Agreed, especial Indiana, who pretends that the routes end an their "beltway" routes, and provides no signs to direct people to the other side of the city. Either sign a multi-plex, or return the route to its original route, and just have the city/county be responsible for maintenance. The current way is stupid, evil, confusing, and wrong.
"
none of that's true, all multiplexes are signed in Indiana, and the ones that aren't are only in Indianapolis and they have signs that say "SRXX or USXX follow I-465XX to Exit XX" on every on ramp.
Merge or die exits
The newer "Yellow Diamond" style "Reduced Speed Zone" signs that have a (usually) rather tiny speed limit sign inside the yellow diamond with an arrow on top. In most cases either the numbers are too small to easily be seen or are in that God awful "C" font that does not look right on ANY speed sign outside of Quebec. (Yes Oregon still has LOTS of "C" font numbered "limitless" speed signs but I have never like those either. Speed 60 is especially annoying in "C" font to me for some reason.)
Personally I would like to see other states adopt California's "XX Zone Ahead" style signs. I also like Connecticut's large yellow rectangular "55 M.P.H. SPEED LIMIT AHEAD" signs. The Canadian style arrow over the number on a white rectangle seems OK to me as well. Perhaps what would be most ideal as far as I am concerned would be to use California's "XX Zone Ahead" but in yellow rather than white. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 17, 2015, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 17, 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 01, 2015, 04:05:03 PM
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
Agreed, especial Indiana, who pretends that the routes end an their "beltway" routes, and provides no signs to direct people to the other side of the city. Either sign a multi-plex, or return the route to its original route, and just have the city/county be responsible for maintenance. The current way is stupid, evil, confusing, and wrong.
"
none of that's true, all multiplexes are signed in Indiana, and the ones that aren't are only in Indianapolis and they have signs that say "SRXX or USXX follow I-465XX to Exit XX" on every on ramp.
The last time I was there signs were missing where US 36 E Bound enters the loop on Rock Road as well as 40 E Bound from Washington Street, and US 421 S Bound coming in from the north just east of I-865.
Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on September 17, 2015, 07:16:41 PM
The newer "Yellow Diamond" style "Reduced Speed Zone" signs that have a (usually) rather tiny speed limit sign inside the yellow diamond with an arrow on top. In most cases either the numbers are too small to easily be seen or are in that God awful "C" font that does not look right on ANY speed sign outside of Quebec. (Yes Oregon still has LOTS of "C" font numbered "limitless" speed signs but I have never like those either. Speed 60 is especially annoying in "C" font to me for some reason.)
Personally I would like to see other states adopt California's "XX Zone Ahead" style signs. I also like Connecticut's large yellow rectangular "55 M.P.H. SPEED LIMIT AHEAD" signs. The Canadian style arrow over the number on a white rectangle seems OK to me as well. Perhaps what would be most ideal as far as I am concerned would be to use California's "XX Zone Ahead" but in yellow rather than white. Just my 2 cents.
Heh. The crucial thing to me is that the sign tell you what the upcoming speed limit will be.
Then you have these huge things on US-15 north of Frederick, Maryland:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2FRoad%2520sign%2520pictures%2FUS-15%2520reduce%2520speed%2520signs_zpsqxv7mlfj.png&hash=0e1fac4cafc2e8a3f25ade51e4dd73605061f0fc)
People who say GPS/phone apps are better than paper maps (they're not).
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 07:24:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 17, 2015, 07:09:30 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on September 17, 2015, 02:46:59 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 01, 2015, 04:05:03 PM
Just my inner roadgeek, but I hate when multiplexes aren't signed. I've been to a lot of places where a US or state route is "invisible" yet shares pavement with an interstate.
I realize people often use the Interstate for a thru route, but if there's a highway running along with it, put up some signs.
Agreed, especial Indiana, who pretends that the routes end an their "beltway" routes, and provides no signs to direct people to the other side of the city. Either sign a multi-plex, or return the route to its original route, and just have the city/county be responsible for maintenance. The current way is stupid, evil, confusing, and wrong.
"
none of that's true, all multiplexes are signed in Indiana, and the ones that aren't are only in Indianapolis and they have signs that say "SRXX or USXX follow I-465XX to Exit XX" on every on ramp.
The last time I was there signs were missing where US 36 E Bound enters the loop on Rock Road as well as 40 E Bound from Washington Street, and US 421 S Bound coming in from the north just east of I-865.
us 36 as of july 2015: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.764614,-86.2723876,3a,75y,146.24h,83.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEisrdKne3jCCfcNPSHjzwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
us 421 as of august 2015 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9283238,-86.230745,3a,75y,203.39h,99.84t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssq2d8vtuiZACUn5HMeW_Cw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
You are right about US 40 though, and they also forgot to sign US 421 on the east side at I-74. They do appear to be missing on pendleton pike. must have been a fuck up by the designer, they definitely were there before the major reconstruction of the area.
this used to exist on pendleton pike https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8351166,-86.0295432,3a,75y,260.71h,90.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svAaTtVFX0vfKa3lFpbsg2Q!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
This bull----
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6386501,-82.1484107,3a,75y,80.24h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxAmbfST1DBN_LopALfVTnw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
If you're going to change a sign out don't center the new tab!!!!
2 more for me:
1- reused street names, almost always happens when the streets are named after letters, one example that really annoys me is Richmond, IN their street grid is a complete clusterfuck, the letters and numbered streets reset at least 3 times depending on where you are in the city
2- Indiana loves to do this, when a state route is rerouted or decommissioned, they simply remove the shield, leaving a confusing and ugly sign. This signage gantry is bullshit: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4237786,-86.9032603,3a,75y,28.8h,83.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfYFCicfEKB6PJfUAXOYupg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1
either add the surface street names to new, smaller signs, or take this bs down. If you weren't careful, you'd think you actually are in Brookston, which is miles away. Examples of this is everywhere in Indiana. Heck, leave the SR 43 shield there and slap a "TO" in front of it.
Not in South Bend as the business routes still are signed in many places despite it being formally decommissioned.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
People who say GPS/phone apps are better than paper maps (they're not).
In the same vein, people who ignore road signs while following a GPS/phone app map and end up where they shouldn't be (I.E. hitting a bridge that clearly says "LOW CLEARANCE".
Another one I hate is people who don't use turn signals. I mean come on, all it takes is half of a second to flick your wrist!
Quote from: Zeffy on September 17, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
Another one I hate is people who don't use turn signals. I mean come on, all it takes is half of a second to flick your wrist!
I think some people just forget. I know my dad does when he drives sometimes. It seems like something automatic though, almost like closing a car door after leaving the car (although I have forgotten to do that myself).
Elevated freeways in urban areas
Overpasses with chainlink fences
Streets with only one side with sidewalks
Streets without adequate number of crosswalks
Incomplete bike lanes
Right- or left-turn-only lanes posted well beyond a typical traffic backup point, stranding drivers in the wrong lane before they know it's the wrong lane.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 17, 2015, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on September 17, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
Another one I hate is people who don't use turn signals. I mean come on, all it takes is half of a second to flick your wrist!
I think some people just forget. I know my dad does when he drives sometimes. It seems like something automatic though, almost like closing a car door after leaving the car (although I have forgotten to do that myself).
Someone I'm not supposed to criticize tells me she has been driving long enough to "know when it is and isn't necessary" to signal when changing lanes. Drives me nuts.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 17, 2015, 05:39:37 AM
The lack of the most basic of proofreading that allows sign legends like "Emergency Stopping Olny" to be hung ever make it into production, much less make it out of the shop.
You mean like this gem from the NY State Thruway?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagizer.imageshack.us%2Fv2%2F150x100q90%2F540%2FgIAj5X.png&hash=98564c67a4350cd7e4702ba298a011fb8cef7c2b) (https://imageshack.com/i/f0gIAj5Xp)
( I guess the Frog wants to make it blurry. It says "LIMIT SPEED 55" )
People who don't drive within the lines on loop ramps.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 21, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
People who don't drive within the lines on loop ramps.
Loop ramps that are striped to make the turn far wider than it needs to be.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 21, 2015, 10:24:32 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 21, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
People who don't drive within the lines on loop ramps.
Loop ramps that are striped to make the turn far wider than it needs to be.
I get seriously bugged when
any solid line is crossed.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on September 21, 2015, 11:48:27 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 21, 2015, 10:24:32 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on September 21, 2015, 05:39:18 PM
People who don't drive within the lines on loop ramps.
Loop ramps that are striped to make the turn far wider than it needs to be.
I get seriously bugged when any solid line is crossed.
I don't get too bugged about it because, at least in Virginia anyway, it's not illegal to cross a single solid white line–it's just "discouraged." On Saturday I was stuck behind a slowpoke who was doing 25 in a 45 zone, and when we pulled up to a red light the guy in the lane to our left, who was equally slow, stopped three carlengths back of the stop bar (he was the first one on line in that lane), so damn right I cut over the solid line into that lane to get myself first on line to get away from the idiots.
Setting that aside, I can think of a number of highway ramps around here, not all of them loop ramps, where the lane striping wants you to take such a wide turn that just about everyone ignores the striping and makes a tighter turn. Doesn't bother me.
Construction speed limits that extend well past the extent of the job site. Examples include the 35mph limit on US-17 between VA-134 and VA-173 (about 3 miles) despite work only happening on the stretch between VA-134 and SR-620 (about 3/4 of a mile), and the 60 mph limit along I-85 south of Greensboro that extended well past what was essentially shoulder work. Putting orange barrels along the side of the road does not count as 'work' in my book.
Nexus 7
cloverleaf interchanges in urban areas. almost always a traffic hazard.
BGS's where a city in another state's 2 letter abbreviation is a capital letter and a small letter. RIDOT puts Hartford, Ct. for signs getting off I-295 on to US 6 West. Is there a street named Hartford Court in Johnston? Should be "CT"
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 22, 2015, 12:05:54 PM
BGS's where a city in another state's 2 letter abbreviation is a capital letter and a small letter. RIDOT puts Hartford, Ct. for signs getting off I-295 on to US 6 West. Is there a street named Hartford Court in Johnston? Should be "CT"
Does the MUTCD say this? As has been beaten to death here, postal abbreviations (two capital letters) are not used for all cases of state-name abbreviation.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 22, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 22, 2015, 12:05:54 PM
BGS's where a city in another state's 2 letter abbreviation is a capital letter and a small letter. RIDOT puts Hartford, Ct. for signs getting off I-295 on to US 6 West. Is there a street named Hartford Court in Johnston? Should be "CT"
Does the MUTCD say this? As has been beaten to death here, postal abbreviations (two capital letters) are not used for all cases of state-name abbreviation.
Similar to how airport codes are not always appropriate abbreviations for cities in general.
I don't mind it when other people cross solid lines, but I do feel superior when I stay within them. :>
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 22, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 22, 2015, 12:05:54 PM
BGS's where a city in another state's 2 letter abbreviation is a capital letter and a small letter. RIDOT puts Hartford, Ct. for signs getting off I-295 on to US 6 West. Is there a street named Hartford Court in Johnston? Should be "CT"
Does the MUTCD say this? As has been beaten to death here, postal abbreviations (two capital letters) are not used for all cases of state-name abbreviation.
From Section 2E.17 of the MUTCD:
QuoteIf used, abbreviations should be unmistakably recognized by road users (see Section 1A.15).
My interpertation of this is that state abbreviations on BGSes should always be capitalized.
Quote from: roadman on September 23, 2015, 11:45:52 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 22, 2015, 12:09:03 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on September 22, 2015, 12:05:54 PM
BGS's where a city in another state's 2 letter abbreviation is a capital letter and a small letter. RIDOT puts Hartford, Ct. for signs getting off I-295 on to US 6 West. Is there a street named Hartford Court in Johnston? Should be "CT"
Does the MUTCD say this? As has been beaten to death here, postal abbreviations (two capital letters) are not used for all cases of state-name abbreviation.
From Section 2E.17 of the MUTCD:
QuoteIf used, abbreviations should be unmistakably recognized by road users (see Section 1A.15).
My interpertation of this is that state abbreviations on BGSes should always be capitalized.
My interpretation is that 2-leter USPS state abbreviations should always have both letters capitalized, but other well-known abbreviations (such as Conn, Neb, Mass, W Va, Penna) are also acceptable.
Vtk, I think you're 100% right. But I think there's still am issue where there's kind of an overlap between postal abbreviations and "other well-known abbreviations". Before standard postal abbreviations were a thing, Virginia was always Va. and I think people tended to user either Conn. and Ct.
Still, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.... except in the case of Ct where it could mean either Connecticut or Court... but if you're in Rhode Island and can't figure out that the sign for US 6 means the capital of the neighboring state instead of a small side street, you can't help stupid.
Quote from: Bruce on September 17, 2015, 09:59:04 PM
Elevated freeways in urban areas
Overpasses with chainlink fences
Incomplete bike lanes
I for one happen to love elevated urban freeways. I also like the "curved" chain link fences that California uses on a lot of it's overcrossings.
And most arterial streets should NOT have bike lanes, especially streets that are state highways.
Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on September 23, 2015, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: Bruce on September 17, 2015, 09:59:04 PM
Elevated freeways in urban areas
Overpasses with chainlink fences
Incomplete bike lanes
I for one happen to love elevated urban freeways. I also like the "curved" chain link fences that California uses on a lot of it's overcrossings.
And most arterial streets should NOT have bike lanes, especially streets that are state highways.
All a matter of opinion.
I dislike elevated freeways because they create huge visual barriers between the two sides that aren't as easy to mend as a sunken freeway (a capped lid with a park can do wonders).
Chainlink fences on overpasses get in the way of my freeway photography, so it's a petty reason to not like them.
Some arterials streets are entirely appropriate corridors for separated bike lanes, state highway or not. Around here the definition is quite gray (the West Seattle Freeway is not a state highway, but SR 513 still is...there's reasons but they don't make sense anymore) and it is the duty of a DOT to adopt all forms of transportation (and that includes cycling...and transit). Arterials that are in areas with high enough pedestrian traffic should definitely have bike lanes, as the alternatives (riding on the sidewalk...or riding in traffic) aren't very good ways of attracting new cyclists.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
People who say GPS/phone apps are better than paper maps (they're not).
They both have their flaws. The latest Rand McNally oversized road atlas still has I-74 listed as Exit 14 on I-95.
I hate when people use the term "exchange" when they mean "interchange"
I hate when they manufacture new road signs that are for soon to be removed like FDOT did when they updated all the signs on I-4 in Downtown Orlando. They created brand new signs for South Street and a few weeks after they were in place, permanently closed that exit for good.
As you all know guide signs do not come cheap and especially when they are overhead signs like all the previous Exit 83 signs were.
Another pet peeve I forgot to mention in my previous post that I find extremely annoying is the practice used on most newer directional banners to have the first capital letter of a direction be taller than the others. To me this looks unnecessarily asymmetrical. The older banners look so much neater and tidier to me. Is there any chance of getting the MUTCD to dump this (in my opinion) unnecessary and annoying practice?
-The State of Oklahoma's aversion to mile markers, at least in the panhandle.
-New Mexico's seemingly non-standard BGS signage.
-US56/412 and its 60 MPH speed limit between Clayton, NM and Springer, NM. It is a very sparsely traveled road.
-Arrow per lane signage
-neutered Interstate highway shields.
-no open-road tolling on the Kansas Turnpike. I know I don't have to stop, but it would be nice to stay at 75 MPH
My biggest road-related pet peeve is when US and state routes aren't co-signed when they are concurrent with Interstates. It's not that big of a hassle or an expense, at least comparatively speaking, and it can be easy to make wrong turns when you happen to be following one of the "lesser" roads. I think all or nearly all concurrencies should be signed with all of the routes.
Also, yeah, neutered Interstate shields. The state-named ones look so much better.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 17, 2015, 10:07:44 PM
Right- or left-turn-only lanes posted well beyond a typical traffic backup point, stranding drivers in the wrong lane before they know it's the wrong lane.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 17, 2015, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on September 17, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
Another one I hate is people who don't use turn signals. I mean come on, all it takes is half of a second to flick your wrist!
I think some people just forget. I know my dad does when he drives sometimes. It seems like something automatic though, almost like closing a car door after leaving the car (although I have forgotten to do that myself).
Someone I'm not supposed to criticize tells me she has been driving long enough to "know when it is and isn't necessary" to signal when changing lanes. Drives me nuts.
My peeve is drivers who don't turn their turn signal
off. My brother turned in front of a vehicle with its left signal on & crashed, bro got the ticket, failure to yield.
I had a couple of close calls in same situation years ago, now i wait until I'm sure they are actually going to turn.
My simple rule for turn signal use is
if my movement wont affect any other vehicles I don't bother tho I usually hit the signal without realizing when I'm turning, even at 3am with no vehicle within 4 miles of me.
Oh yes and they travel for miles with it on passing so many places they could have made the turn.
Also when i used to work for Prudential Insurance in Iselin, NJ it used to irk me when people turning into the driveway used to have their signal on for a good 100 yards before they turn into Pru. The problem was Siemens also had a driveway 50 feet away from Prudential and that to me is false signaling. The reason why I considered it to be false was the fact I used to come to work that way before I moved to another location, and when I arrived from that direction I would wait till after the Siemens driveway to signal for fear of false signalling to other by myself.
It is a minor one, but at the DMV I hear and even say "Do you have your I-20 and/or I-94" not referring to an Interstate.
Post author chiming in here, as the supermoon rises. One of things that peeve me are signs like this: ( :verymad: :banghead:)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcrosscountryroads.com%2FImages%2FPA%2520I-80%2520W%2520%282%29%2FIMG_1532.JPG&hash=3b68898fb56185d0250a9eb75155a99ab8c94f75)
Image courtesy of CrossCountry Roads
I.E. when the arrows are pointing into the woods/land along the Interstate and not toward the exit ramp or are positioned too far from the actual exit to be correct.
CLEARVIEW
HTC Desire 510
Another that came to mind is drivers who cruise in the fast lanes either at or below the speed limit. If I pass you on the right, who is in the wrong lane? Move on over!
I get a lot of that where I live, as Orange County has a lot of tourists driving rental cars about, especially close to the theme parks. There is many a time I come up on a minivan in the far left lane doing 50.
Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on September 27, 2015, 05:10:11 PM
Another pet peeve I forgot to mention in my previous post that I find extremely annoying is the practice used on most newer directional banners to have the first capital letter of a direction be taller than the others. To me this looks unnecessarily asymmetrical. The older banners look so much neater and tidier to me. Is there any chance of getting the MUTCD to dump this (in my opinion) unnecessary and annoying practice?
I don't mind the elongation of the initial letter when used in cardinal directions. Bothered me when it was first introducted in the early 1990s, but I've gotten used to it. However, one of my pet peeves is states that elongate the 'T' in "TO" (yes, I'm looking at you New Hampshire). Anoter of my pet peeves is when the corner of a sign border is not squared off where it meets the exit tab.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 27, 2015, 07:18:22 PM
Post author chiming in here, as the supermoon rises. One of things that peeve me are signs like this: ( :verymad: :banghead:)
I.E. when the arrows are pointing into the woods/land along the Interstate and not toward the exit ramp or are positioned too far from the actual exit to be correct.
Or arrows that point up for straight ahead. My car can't defy gravity
Quote from: allniter89 on September 27, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
My peeve is drivers who don't turn their turn signal off. My brother turned in front of a vehicle with its left signal on & crashed, bro got the ticket, failure to yield.
That's why you never go unless you actually see their wheels turn and they've committed to the turn.
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2015, 11:24:08 AM
Quote from: allniter89 on September 27, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
My peeve is drivers who don't turn their turn signal off. My brother turned in front of a vehicle with its left signal on & crashed, bro got the ticket, failure to yield.
That's why you never go unless you actually see their wheels turn and they've committed to the turn.
You know, what I could do to be jerkish to drivers is drive the Chicago way and never use signals. They'll have to guess.
Yay.
"This Lane Ends" or "Lane Ends 500 Feet" with no down arrow if it's overhead over a lane. If we're going to split hairs and add 3-dashes on a road narrows sign then why not do that?
Mileage based exit numbers on short sections of freeway. If the whole freeway is 3 miles long what is the purpose?
street signs that omit the suffix of the street, look at Detroit for an example of this.
Routes that don't connect at another route of their class at their end when there's no major geographical features preventing it.
The most glaring examples are I-27 and I-44 in Texas. I mean, maybe the traffic counts don't justify them connecting to another interstate, but it just looks wrong somehow to have a major component in the network just begin/end like that.
Quote from: Ga293 on September 29, 2015, 08:59:17 AM
Routes that don't connect at another route of their class at their end when there's no major geographical features preventing it.
The most glaring examples are I-27 and I-44 in Texas. I mean, maybe the traffic counts don't justify them connecting to another interstate, but it just looks wrong somehow to have a major component in the network just begin/end like that.
You must love I-39 in northern Wisconsin in that case! :-D
The BGS on this expressway leading to a strip mall that was formerly a shopping mall:
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1222216,-75.2302313,3a,41.6y,40.95h,96.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA2BhTi3CdhwjRTknki9E5g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
But probably biggest for me would be stubs and "unnatural" highway alignments.
And maybe the last couple would be drivers that can't merge in Cloverleaf intersections and can't yield, and having to put lights on when it's sprinkling outside.
Quote from: Buffaboy on October 04, 2015, 10:49:53 PM
and having to put lights on when it's sprinkling outside.
I have a serious pet peeve about people who fail to turn on their headlights in the rain or snow. Especially if I'm waiting for a gap in traffic so I can turn onto a road, and the road is wet so there's spray, I might think there's a gap only to realize, no, the next car just doesn't have his lights on.
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
You must not have been around for some of the MTR discussions on how the use of DRLs would negatively impact gas mileage. (seriously, that was a hot topic back in the day...)
Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2015, 12:08:12 PM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
You must not have been around for some of the MTR discussions on how the use of DRLs would negatively impact gas mileage. (seriously, that was a hot topic back in the day...)
The other being its negative effect on drivers' free will and, thus, engagement with the act of driving. I think most of us would agree this appears to have worsened lately, for various reasons.
iPhone
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
Sorry, not going to happen. The more I use them, the faster they're going to burn out. If my headlights weren't such a PITA to change, I'd have no problem agreeing with you. Until I change cars or the law changes, I'm only going to use my headlights when necessary (dusk/night or inclement weather); I'm not going to run my headlights when it's bright and sunny out.
The National Motorists Association likes to talk about how DRLs make the roads less safe, by making it harder to see motorcyclists.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 28, 2015, 10:53:33 AM
Another that came to mind is drivers who cruise in the fast lanes either at or below the speed limit. If I pass you on the right, who is in the wrong lane? Move on over!
I get a lot of that where I live, as Orange County has a lot of tourists driving rental cars about, especially close to the theme parks. There is many a time I come up on a minivan in the far left lane doing 50.
A related pet peeve: People driving way slower than normal because they're lost. Driving 45 mph on a highway trying to look for the next exit to make that u-turn isn't going to get you to that exit any faster, and there aren't going to be any other options anyway.
Quote from: DaBigE on October 05, 2015, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
Sorry, not going to happen. The more I use them, the faster they're going to burn out. If my headlights weren't such a PITA to change, I'd have no problem agreeing with you. Until I change cars or the law changes, I'm only going to use my headlights when necessary (dusk/night or inclement weather); I'm not going to run my headlights when it's bright and sunny out.
If your headlights are burning out more often than once every several years, then maybe there's other, more serious issues with your car.
Quote
You know, what I could do to be jerkish to drivers is drive the Chicago way and...
A pet peeve among people talking about roads: People that think something only happens in their region or state. Guy in my carpool recently started up this "Another Day, another accident on Jersey roads" complaint. Because accidents only happen in New Jersey. :verymad:
People usually justify their opinion because of some ridiculous sample, such as they took a weekend trip to a small town in a rural part of another state, and there was no congestion when they got there at 11am on a Saturday.
Quote from: DaBigE on October 05, 2015, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
Sorry, not going to happen. The more I use them, the faster they're going to burn out. If my headlights weren't such a PITA to change, I'd have no problem agreeing with you. Until I change cars or the law changes, I'm only going to use my headlights when necessary (dusk/night or inclement weather); I'm not going to run my headlights when it's bright and sunny out.
^This^
It's not a simple $5-10 swap out anymore. Most new cars are going to HID projector headlights and it costs about $80.00 for one new projector lamp bulb (on my Mustang at least).
My lights come on automatically at dusk, and when I turn my wipers on. The rest of the time they are off.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 05, 2015, 01:07:40 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on October 05, 2015, 12:44:18 PM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
Sorry, not going to happen. The more I use them, the faster they're going to burn out. If my headlights weren't such a PITA to change, I'd have no problem agreeing with you. Until I change cars or the law changes, I'm only going to use my headlights when necessary (dusk/night or inclement weather); I'm not going to run my headlights when it's bright and sunny out.
If your headlights are burning out more often than once every several years, then maybe there's other, more serious issues with your car.
Never said they were. Simple fact that the more you use something, the faster it's prone to wear out. Why use something if you don't need to? If you hit me in broad daylight, you have bigger problems than my headlights not being on.
NHTSA Study on DRL Effectiveness (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811029.pdf)
Back on the topic:
-Parking lot designs, especially ones where someone made an attempt to use MUTCD-compliant signage/markings, but screw-up the implementation
-Improper installation of square-tube posts (the ground sleeve is not supposed to stick up a foot
or more out of the ground :pan: )
-People who think the R4-7 Keep Right sign is interchangeable with the W12-1 Double Arrow sign
-Places that don't have a proper sign offset from the face of curb when they have plenty of space to install the sign properly.
-Flashing red approaches that aren't sync'd up and end up looking like railroad crossings from a distance.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 28, 2015, 10:53:33 AM
Another that came to mind is drivers who cruise in the fast lanes either at or below the speed limit. If I pass you on the right, who is in the wrong lane? Move on over!
Oh, that reminds me of another: Referring to the passing lane as the "fast lane". It gives the impression that the left lane is the appropriate choice as long as one is going "fast", rather than only when one is passing another vehicle..
We in this group know better, of course, but the general public is not always so enlightened. ;-)
iPhone
Quote from: empirestate on October 05, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on September 28, 2015, 10:53:33 AM
Another that came to mind is drivers who cruise in the fast lanes either at or below the speed limit. If I pass you on the right, who is in the wrong lane? Move on over!
Oh, that reminds me of another: Referring to the passing lane as the "fast lane". It gives the impression that the left lane is the appropriate choice as long as one is going "fast", rather than only when one is passing another vehicle..
We in this group know better, of course, but the general public is not always so enlightened. ;-)
This song helped perpetrate that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tcXblWojdM
I almost always use my headlights when I'm on a two-lane road because they make it easier for oncoming traffic to see my car when deciding whether it's safe to pass. This sort of thing is a major reason why Canada mandated DRLs, and indeed I picked up the habit of using headlights on two-lane roads from seeing Canadians do it in the 1980s prior to the advent of DRLs. It's pretty much a reflex for me by now–turn onto a two-lane road, turn on the headlights.
Lane stripes that don't line up across an intersection.
The wrong shield blank used for a route marker. Seriously, if these people can't figure out which shield blank to use, who can?
Calling an old alignment or a business route by simply the number; e.g. 71 in Springdale, AR, instead of 71-Business (in common parlance) and Highway 50 in O'Fallon, IL, instead of Old Hwy 50 (officially).
'Obey Warning Signs' signs in Texas. Literally impossible to obey, yet I still worry I'll get a ticket.
Missouri's tendency to call something '## Highway' instead of 'Highway ##'.
That shoulders aren't to be driven on here. Seriously, Mexican-style passing is so much superior, it's such an annoyance to arrive back in the States and get stuck behind some slowpoke.
Quote from: kphoger on October 05, 2015, 04:35:43 PM
Lane stripes that don't line up across an intersection.
That, and lines that look like they were applied by someone who was drunk.
Quote from: DaBigE on October 05, 2015, 04:40:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 05, 2015, 04:35:43 PM
Lane stripes that don't line up across an intersection.
That, and lines that look like they were applied by someone who was drunk.
Sorry, I was eating a Milky Way and I have no regerts.
One more: "Highways are more dangerous than at-grade streets and need to be downgraded in cities."
Quote from: Buffaboy on October 05, 2015, 06:56:20 PM
One more: "Highways are more dangerous than at-grade streets and need to be downgraded in cities."
wait?! people actually think this? omg
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
I find headlights on during the daytime distracting. Daytime running lights are a little better.
Paul
I don't see any point in having headlights on during the day, they serve no purpose, if you can't see someone during broad daylight, maybe you should go see your eye doctor.
Okay, so I've heard at least one reason not to use headlights all the time.
I still believe there are situations, possibly even in daytime / fair weather, where a car with headlights on is more visible than a car with headlights off, and the driver of that car is not in a position to be aware of it.
Therefore it is my personal policy to always drive with headlights on. It is also my employer's policy to always drive company vehicles with headlights on, and I presume it's for the same reason.
In Ohio the law requires using headlights in rain or snow, as well as a half-hour before sunset until a half hour after sunrise. (Yes, [citation needed].) When people don't use their headlights on a sunny day, I probably don't even notice it; when people don't use their headlights when Ohio law requires it, I can get rather annoyed.
Quote from: vtk on October 07, 2015, 12:50:45 PM
In Ohio the law requires using headlights in rain or snow, as well as a half-hour before sunset until a half hour after sunrise.
Wisconsin's sunset/sunrise law is similar, IIRC.
Quotewhen people don't use their headlights when Ohio law requires it, I can get rather annoyed.
Me too, although I'd replace "Ohio law" with "common sense". Case-in-point, my morning commute yesterday was shrouded in fairly dense fog. About three blocks from my office, I encountered a white Dodge minivan heading the opposite direction without any lights on. :pan: :banghead:
I think there needs to be a distinction between "what the law requires" and "what common sense requires." Just because the law may not require you to turn on your headlights does not mean it's OK for you to fail to do so if conditions require otherwise. A good example is when the late-afternoon sun is close to the horizon, blindingly bright, and you're on an east-west highway in either direction. The sun can sometimes make it damn hard to see other vehicles, especially if the sun glare is bad enough to require sunglasses but the other cars on the road are in shadow. It's really annoying when some people don't turn on their lights in that situation. I always look in my mirrors and if I have any trouble seeing a car behind me, I turn on my lights; I also turn them on if I have any trouble seeing a car coming the other way if I'm on a road with no median. Generally-speaking, I err on the side of turning them on.
(The foregoing situation is also one where it may be improper to maintain the posted speed limit if visibility is bad, and in my mind, the problem of the invisible cars just provides another reason to consider slowing down.)
What I really don't understand is the people who drive with just their parking lights. It serves no purpose whatsoever. I can only conclude that there are a lot of people out there who think headlights exist for one purpose only–to help you see the road ahead. It never occurs to them that headlights are also important for helping other people see you.
Quote from: PaulRAnderson on October 06, 2015, 06:26:36 PM
Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2015, 03:25:32 AM
Seriously, there's no reason not to turn on your headlights when driving, any time of day, in any weather. Make it a habit: start the engine, turn on the headlights; turn off the engine, turn off the headlights.
I find headlights on during the daytime distracting. Daytime running lights are a little better.
Paul
In my parents Suzuki the DRLs are the same as low beam headlights
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
I think this could qualify as a road related peeve.
Something I thought of today that I count as a road-related pet peeve because the only time it's an issue is when I'm driving:
Gas stations that only display the price for the lowest-octane grade of gas, or for that grade and diesel. Display all three grades, dammit! Unless I know a given station usually charges less than the others nearby, or unless I'm stopped at a red light and I have time to look at the GasBuddy app, I'll pick a station that shows the price for 93 octane over one that doesn't simply because I know prior to pulling in what price I'll see.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 07, 2015, 03:49:30 PM
Something I thought of today that I count as a road-related pet peeve because the only time it's an issue is when I'm driving:
Gas stations that only display the price for the lowest-octane grade of gas, or for that grade and diesel. Display all three grades, dammit! Unless I know a given station usually charges less than the others nearby, or unless I'm stopped at a red light and I have time to look at the GasBuddy app, I'll pick a station that shows the price for 93 octane over one that doesn't simply because I know prior to pulling in what price I'll see.
That's a pretty good one!
I'd also add gas stations that advertise the cash price on their signs, but show the credit prices on a small little display when you pull in (usually about 10 cents higher).
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 07, 2015, 03:49:30 PM
Something I thought of today that I count as a road-related pet peeve because the only time it's an issue is when I'm driving:
Gas stations that only display the price for the lowest-octane grade of gas, or for that grade and diesel. Display all three grades, dammit! Unless I know a given station usually charges less than the others nearby, or unless I'm stopped at a red light and I have time to look at the GasBuddy app, I'll pick a station that shows the price for 93 octane over one that doesn't simply because I know prior to pulling in what price I'll see.
That's a pretty good one!
I'd also add gas stations that advertise the cash price on their signs, but show the credit prices on a small little display when you pull in (usually about 10 cents higher).
Thankfully, most stations around here charge the same price for cash or credit. It always annoys me when we drive south that stations in South Carolina usually charge more.
Yesterday I passed a station that was charging $2.099 for 87 octane and $2.999 for 93 octane. That struck me as a bit of an excessive difference. I remember when the difference between grades was typically 10¢. I wonder why it tends to be so much wider of a gap these days.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
I think this could qualify as a road related peeve.
Quote from: Big John on October 07, 2015, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
I think this could qualify as a road related peeve.
LMAO! I don't think I'd seen that particular episode, but it's dead on.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 07, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
What I really don't understand is the people who drive with just their parking lights. It serves no purpose whatsoever. I can only conclude that there are a lot of people out there who think headlights exist for one purpose only–to help you see the road ahead. It never occurs to them that headlights are also important for helping other people see you.
While this is not a practice I engage in outside of parking lots (and then so as to not blind other people walking, in front of me at the drive-through, etc), I always assumed people did it precisely so others could see them. It's usually done at dawn out dusk, so I've always thought the drivers thought it was bright enough to see well without headlights but dark enough to help others see them.
I do sometimes use a combination of parking lights and fog lights (not sure how common it is for a car to provide this combination). I do this in parking lots without adequate overhead lighting, particularly dim parking garages, and also in misty or foggy conditions.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
I think this could qualify as a road related peeve.
I've probably mentioned this before, but when my brother and I were kids, we'd go to New York for a week every summer to visit our grandparents. They lived in Bay Ridge and every day we drove to Breezy Point, via the Belt Parkway, to go to the beach; usually our two cousins were with us as well. To my parents' long-lasting chagrin, our grandfather got us started reading all the road signs exactly as they're written–e.g., "Ocean Pkwy" sounded like "Ocean Pickway" and "Shell Rd" sounded like "Shell Rid." For years, all of us screamed out all the road signs twice a day as we made that drive. Looking back, I'm sure my parents wanted to smack us silly.
(Many years later, after we had outgrown that silliness, we were up there riding with my grandfather again for one of the final times before he died, and as we were driving along he suddenly said "Coney Is Ave!" The look my mother shot him was venomous.)
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Ha-ha I agree but I was referring to something like this $2.3_ I've seen this a few times.
Why do gas prices go down to the thousandth of a dollar? There's no such thing technically right?
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Ha-ha I agree but I was referring to something like this $2.3_ I've seen this a few times.
Why do gas prices go down to the thousandth of a dollar? There's no such thing technically right?
I remember seeing that during the 1979 gas shortage. Millls are still used for accounting purposes though there are no coins of that denomination.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Ha-ha I agree but I was referring to something like this $2.3_ I've seen this a few times.
Can't say I've ever encountered that, at least that was done intentionally. If I did, it was due to a number falling off (in the age before LED price signs).
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 09:38:12 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Ha-ha I agree but I was referring to something like this $2.3_ I've seen this a few times.
Can't say I've ever encountered that, at least that was done intentionally. If I did, it was due to a number falling off (in the age before LED price signs).
That may be the case, or maybe it was while they were changing prices. I've seen it a few times and assumed it was on purpose.
It is annoying when they post a cheap price and in small letters say "with car wash" or "members price" damn rickers stations get me every time.
When a new left lane is created and then the right lane ends. That shit drives me up the fucking wall.
HTC Desire 510
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 01, 2015, 04:04:40 PM
People saying US 30 ends in California...
People saying that US-66 ended at the Santa Monica Pier (or less commonly, at the end of Santa Monica Blvd.). It actually turned left at Lincoln Blvd., and ended where Pacific Coast Highway came up the canyon from the beach and turned onto Lincoln (roughly where Lincoln crosses I-10 now).
When a right lane ends on a freeway directly after an exit, like this:https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2 (https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2)
I mean seriously, who lets this stuff off the drawing board? :banghead:
Also, things like this:https://goo.gl/maps/zMXZgWg6dvH2 (https://goo.gl/maps/zMXZgWg6dvH2)
In case you don't see it, a lane begins and ends on a ramp for no apparent reason
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 01, 2015, 08:43:14 PM
–"Reduced Speed Ahead" signs. I much prefer the style telling you what the reduced speed limit will be. But if you must use the generic sign, it should say "Reduce Speed Ahead" because it's the speed limit that is reduced and the sign is telling you to prepare to slow down to conform with that. In other words, whether any "speed" is actually reduced depends on the individual driver.
What about END xMPH SPEED LIMIT signs? Whose bright idea was that? If Hans from Stuttgart, driving his airport rental car, is expected to know what the speed limit is reverting to, then the guy who ordered up the sign should have known it, too, and put that on the goddam sign.
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 17, 2015, 07:30:55 PM
People who say GPS/phone apps are better than paper maps (they're not).
People who say "People who say GPS/phone apps are better than paper maps (they're not)" (they're wrong). :-D
In an intersection like this:
https://goo.gl/maps/H6AjdSKSYGB2 (https://goo.gl/maps/H6AjdSKSYGB2)
When the explicit left turn lane overflows, my peeve is when additional drivers who want to turn left refuse to line up in the center turn lane, and instead line up in the travel lane.
A similar peeve is when people are temporarily pulling over on the side of the road, perhaps to look at a map or use their phone, they don't pull over against the curb, but instead stick out into the road or block the bike lane. It's like they feel that being up against the curb is only for people who are actually parking.
Quote from: allniter89 on September 27, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
My peeve is drivers who don't turn their turn signal off. My brother turned in front of a vehicle with its left signal on & crashed, bro got the ticket, failure to yield.
People who put their right turn signal on when the turn they intend to make is two streets up, and I'm waiting to pull out of the first street. You shouldn't turn you signal on until you're going to turn into the
next street.
Quote from: KG909 on October 07, 2015, 11:31:10 PM
When a new left lane is created and then the right lane ends. That shit drives me up the fucking wall.
Yeah. SB CA-14 in Palmdale. The right lane ends, a quarter mile before the heavily used Palmdale Blvd. exit, at the same time that they add an HOV lane on the left.
How about those gigantic milepost/reassurance signs that have popped up all over New England? Pace Ladybird Johnson, I'd rather look at the occasional billboard than five of those ugly green things in every mile. Some politician must have a cousin in the signmaking business.
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:25:27 AM
Quote from: KG909 on October 07, 2015, 11:31:10 PM
When a new left lane is created and then the right lane ends. That shit drives me up the fucking wall.
Yeah. SB CA-14 in Palmdale. The right lane ends, a quarter mile before the heavily used Palmdale Blvd. exit, at the same time that they add an HOV lane on the left.
IIRC there is a guideline or rule in CA that a general-purpose lane cannot "become" an HOV lane. Otherwise you could get "stuck" in one and have to suddenly merge out.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
I think this could qualify as a road related peeve.
My sister-in-law. A long time ago I had to put up with this all the way from Detroit to Oklahoma City and back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asx5amnfHpU
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
No exceptions? Curious cause the stretch of I-41 between Fond du Lac and Appleton, WI is peppered with billboards for adult toy stores.
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
When the explicit left turn lane overflows, my peeve is when additional drivers who want to turn left refuse to line up in the center turn lane, and instead line up in the travel lane.
On the other hand, when the left turn lane is not overflowing, people two are turning left will move into the center turn lane and start to pass the line of traffic, often ending up in conflict with others who are turning left but are moving into the left turn lane where it begins.
Quote from: DaBigE on October 08, 2015, 09:08:14 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 07, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
Who here has that one friend or family member that insists on reading EVERY. DAMN. BILLBOARD and sign while on a road trip?
I love her, but that's my mom when we're driving long distances.
No exceptions? Curious cause the stretch of I-41 between Fond du Lac and Appleton, WI is peppered with billboards for adult toy stores.
It would be funnier if she didn't get it
Pet peeve I was reminded of this morning: When a road is resurfaced and the new lane striping is inexplicably changed from the way the road used to be striped.
VDOT just repaved a road near our neighborhood. Going north, the road widens from two lanes to three. Previously, the left lane widened out into two thru lanes and the right lane fed into the far right thru lane; there are also two turn lanes (one right, one left) just north of this spot. The striping worked well because during the afternoon rush hour, the left-turn traffic often backs up beyond the end of the turn lane, so striping the left lane to allow thru traffic into either the left thru lane or the center thru lane worked well because it meant people trying to get around the left-turn traffic didn't come into conflict with people in the right lane. But now with the repaving they striped it so there's the single left lane and it's the right lane that becomes two lanes at the light, even though it's easy to see the small markings on the pavement showing where they were supposed to put the striping. They just put the striping down yesterday afternoon, so I haven't yet been through there during the afternoon rush hour to see whether it's causing a problem. I suspect I will be asking VDOT to change it back.
It's not the first time they've messed up striping when repaving. Nearby at the Beltway exit they didn't restore the so-called "puppy tracks" (short skip lines channeling traffic around a corner) when they repaved the road and it caused a bunch of near-collisions as people turned into the wrong lanes. It took intervention from local politicians to get that one fixed. Near the Pentagon they narrowed a two-lane exit to one lane and caused traffic backups until enough people complained.
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on October 08, 2015, 12:00:21 AM
When a right lane ends on a freeway directly after an exit, like this:https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2 (https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2)
I mean seriously, who lets this stuff off the drawing board? :banghead:
It's so people getting on at the previous exit (that lane was only just added from the previous on-ramp) have more time to merge rather than having to weave with exiting traffic.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on October 08, 2015, 10:12:29 AM
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on October 08, 2015, 12:00:21 AM
When a right lane ends on a freeway directly after an exit, like this:https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2 (https://goo.gl/maps/6Sk2REyb4zQ2)
I mean seriously, who lets this stuff off the drawing board? :banghead:
It's so people getting on at the previous exit (that lane was only just added from the previous on-ramp) have more time to merge rather than having to weave with exiting traffic.
I think it's more annoying when the right lane ends just
before an exit as seen in the link below. A cloverleaf loop-around ramp enters from the right just ahead and then another loop-around ramp departs. I suppose the reason for not extending the right lane and making it an "Exit Only" lane at the next ramp is (a) traffic entering from the loop-around ramp would potentially ("potentially" because it's almost always slow right there) encounter people bombing down the "Exit Only" lane at high speed right as said entering traffic is trying to accelerate and (b) people would try to use the "Exit Only" lane to bypass slow traffic and cut over at the end, thereby interfering with exiting/entering traffic. Both concerns are legitimate. The downside, of course, is that exiting traffic has to shove left for an extremely short distance before shoving right again. (Having a cloverleaf weave area adjacent to the right thru lane on a busy suburban Interstate is a bad idea anyway, but there isn't much space to improve it unless they build another flyover ramp that would be controversial with local residents there.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.818124,-77.132674,3a,66.8y,212.81h,86.25t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sySIaCHgmeJjw-CxtJMN-Vg!2e0
Satellite view of the same place–the lane drop is where the "Henry G. Shirley Memorial Hwy" label is visible:
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8165098,-77.1360744,18z/data=!3m1!1e3
Thanks to some fucking dickbag who didn't signal, the person in front of my sisters car had to slam on her brakes and swerve to avoid hitting the car while they abruptly slammed on their brakes to turn while another car pulled out into traffic. My sister and I didn't have anywhere to go and, despite jamming the brakes, the momentum was too great and we ended up plowing into the back of the car ahead of us. The damage to our car was horrific, while the other person escaped relatively unscathed. The person who caused this bullshit drove off and acted like he didn't do anything. We weren't even tailgating or going more than 3 mph over the speed limit (40).
Thankfully the girl we hit was super nice and didn't even want to hold us liable.
Please people, even if it's the last minute just flick your fucking wrist to signal. It's not hard, and it's fucking helpful so we can slow down and you can turn in even if you have to fucking stop to let another car pass.
Quote from: Zeffy on October 08, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Thanks to some fucking dickbag who didn't signal, the person in front of my sisters car had to slam on her brakes and swerve to avoid hitting the car while they abruptly slammed on their brakes to turn while another car pulled out into traffic. My sister and I didn't have anywhere to go and, despite jamming the brakes, the momentum was too great and we ended up plowing into the back of the car ahead of us. The damage to our car was horrific, while the other person escaped relatively unscathed. The person who caused this bullshit drove off and acted like he didn't do anything. We weren't even tailgating or going more than 3 mph over the speed limit (40).
Thankfully the girl we hit was super nice and didn't even want to hold us liable.
Please people, even if it's the last minute just flick your fucking wrist to signal. It's not hard, and it's fucking helpful so we can slow down and you can turn in even if you have to fucking stop to let another car pass.
Tell that to the people who drive on freeways in New York City. They never signal and it's a large guessing game of where to go next.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:47 PMWhy do gas prices go down to the thousandth of a dollar? There's no such thing technically right?
Such pricing notation dates back to at least the 1960s when gas prices were significantly lower (25 to 35 cents depending on area)
and when so-called gas (price) wars had neighboring stations undercutting their competition by fractions of a cent-per-gallon ($0.XX5 per gallon vs. $0.XX9 per gallon). Such price differences were more noticable for the trucks (semis/18-wheelers) that had much larger fuel tank capacities than passenger cars (even full-sizes).
Even during the mid-to-late 1970s, I actually saw a gas station that priced at least one of its grades by the half-cent ($0.XX5) per gallon.
construction zones on highways where they split traffic the same direction of traffic, the left lane is usually shifted to the other side of the road, is way to small in width, borderline claustrophobic. This also sometimes can act as an express lane skipping exits. The right lane usually is on the normal side with a normal width.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 08, 2015, 09:01:44 PM
construction zones on highways where they split traffic the same direction of traffic, the left lane is usually shifted to the other side of the road, is way to small in width, borderline claustrophobic. This also sometimes can act as an express lane skipping exits. The right lane usually is on the normal side with a normal width.
While it's not ideal, sometimes you gotta do it in order to get the work done while remaining open traffic.
How car manufacturers make changing light bulbs a seemingly more difficult task with each new model, and still insist on using incandescent bulbs in so many locations where LEDs would work better.
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 06:01:06 PM
Tell that to the people who drive on freeways in New York City. They never signal and it's a large guessing game of where to go next.
Nah, sure they do. Right after they've changed lanes.
Quote from: empirestate on October 08, 2015, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
When the explicit left turn lane overflows, my peeve is when additional drivers who want to turn left refuse to line up in the center turn lane, and instead line up in the travel lane.
On the other hand, when the left turn lane is not overflowing, people two are turning left will move into the center turn lane and start to pass the line of traffic, often ending up in conflict with others who are turning left but are moving into the left turn lane where it begins.
Well, one shouldn't get into the center turn lane until it's obvious that no one in front of you is going to make a left turn, which is to say, when everyone in front of you has already passed the end of the line of cars already in the turn lane. If someone is using the turn lane to pass someone who might also want to get into the turn lane, then that would qualify as another pet peeve--or as an infraction worthy of a citation.
Quote from: kurumi on October 08, 2015, 12:38:54 AM
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:25:27 AM
Quote from: KG909 on October 07, 2015, 11:31:10 PM
When a new left lane is created and then the right lane ends. That shit drives me up the fucking wall.
Yeah. SB CA-14 in Palmdale. The right lane ends, a quarter mile before the heavily used Palmdale Blvd. exit, at the same time that they add an HOV lane on the left.
IIRC there is a guideline or rule in CA that a general-purpose lane cannot "become" an HOV lane. Otherwise you could get "stuck" in one and have to suddenly merge out.
But the right lane should at least exit.
I also hate it when new left lanes are created and never end, or when they never needed to be created in the first place, also when the left lane just exits. Only thing that doesn't piss me off if it is created but is something like an exit lane, also if it was a carpool made.
HTC Desire 510
Quote from: Big John on October 07, 2015, 09:25:52 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on October 07, 2015, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 07, 2015, 08:26:23 PM
gas stations that omit the last digit in the price on the sign outside
The fact that gas prices are still created to that many digits. Round up already!
Ha-ha I agree but I was referring to something like this $2.3_ I've seen this a few times.
Why do gas prices go down to the thousandth of a dollar? There's no such thing technically right?
I remember seeing that during the 1979 gas shortage. Millls are still used for accounting purposes though there are no coins of that denomination.
Way back when, Andy Rooney did a segment on 60 Minutes about this. He drove up to the pump and asked for exactly one gallon of gas. He owed something like $.99-9 and handed the attendant a dollar bill. He asked for his change back and the poor kid didn't know what to do. He understood Rooney's issue with getting his 1/10 of a cent back in change, but had no idea how to handle such a situation. The manager comes over and doesn't get anywhere either, since Rooney is intentionally being a dick to make his point, and Rooney leaves pretending to be frustrated.
I always figured the 9/10 of a cent was used for taxation purposes at a local/state level, but other than that it just screams out an "Office Space" situation where someone is getting rich 9/10 of a cent at a time without anyone knowing it.
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 11:18:48 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 08, 2015, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
When the explicit left turn lane overflows, my peeve is when additional drivers who want to turn left refuse to line up in the center turn lane, and instead line up in the travel lane.
On the other hand, when the left turn lane is not overflowing, people two are turning left will move into the center turn lane and start to pass the line of traffic, often ending up in conflict with others who are turning left but are moving into the left turn lane where it begins.
Well, one shouldn't get into the center turn lane until it's obvious that no one in front of you is going to make a left turn, which is to say, when everyone in front of you has already passed the end of the line of cars already in the turn lane. If someone is using the turn lane to pass someone who might also want to get into the turn lane, then that would qualify as another pet peeve--or as an infraction worthy of a citation.
Or purposely be a richard where they just like to drive the center turn lane as an extra lane. Before Orange Blossom Trail got widened to six lanes from the previous four lanes plus center turn lane, some drivers looking to turn west on Central Florida Parkway would be "riding" that left turn suicide lane for about a quarter of a mile already with no cues that they needed to bypass or any kind of slowpokes in the general use lanes. I used to have to look over my should when I would enter the left turn lane for Central Florida to avoid colliding with one of these center turn lane drivers.
Then if you want to get technical, the center turn lane leading up to Central Florida Parkway was not continuous either as the former Ford Dealer (now it moved a block away) had an exclusive left turn for southbound OBT in lieu of a bidirectional turn lane. Yet NB cars would ride in the SB left turn lane for the 100 feet it was, as most drivers treat all left turn lanes unprotected by medians as bidirectional.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 08, 2015, 09:01:44 PM
construction zones on highways where they split traffic the same direction of traffic, the left lane is usually shifted to the other side of the road, is way to small in width, borderline claustrophobic. This also sometimes can act as an express lane skipping exits. The right lane usually is on the normal side with a normal width.
They've been doing this a lot on the I-84 construction in Meridian, ID. The freeway is normally 4 lanes in each direction. What they'll do is work on half of one side of the roadway (2 lanes), make each direction 3 lanes, with one of the directions having 2 lanes, and then a third lane crossover to the other side. Much better alternative than forcing down to 2 lanes (which they
almost ended up doing recently, but decided against it at the 11th hour, doing another crossover; 2 lanes would create brutal traffic). I like using the crossover lane, I can speed above the 55 MPH construction speed limit because there's no room for cops in there (median on both sides), and there is no work going on in the middle either. I also don't have to worry about merging traffic from interchanges.
Quote from: BamaZeus on October 09, 2015, 01:14:46 PM
I always figured the 9/10 of a cent was used for taxation purposes at a local/state level, but other than that it just screams out an "Office Space" situation where someone is getting rich 9/10 of a cent at a time without anyone knowing it.
But you're typically not pumping exact whole numbers of gallons all the time. Your gasoline volume is measured to the thousandth of a gallon. So, really, the price a person owes for their gasoline purchase could technically be specified to the millionth of a dollar, or to the ten-thousandth of a cent. Even if the price per gallon were always in whole cents, you could still owe an amount with odd thousandths of cents.
The next thing to argue about is rounding. If the total purchase price on a transaction is rounded up or down to the nearest cent, nobody is "getting rich" from fractional cents. It's just a random redistribution of fractional cents between customers. On the other hand, if the purchase price on a transaction is rounded
up to the next whole cent, as I suspect, still nobody is "getting rich" from those fractional cents. It's essentially as if the real price of gasoline is "$2.59
9/gal + ½¢ flat fee per transaction" and then rounded up or down to the nearest whole cent. Since most gasoline purchases are around 10 gallons or more, that's typically about a twentieth of a cent per gallon upcharge; put another way, since most gasoline purchases are around $25 or more (varying seasonally, regionally, and with the oil market), that's roughly a .02% upcharge. (By the way, I think this is how all other retail purchases are handled after calculating the sales tax, which should also typically result in fractional cents.) Since that rounding up is essentially just a part of the price of the gasoline, these half cents aren't making anyone rich, they're just an extra drop in the bucket of the gross revenue of the gas station. And then there's the random distribution of fractional cents between customers, which really nobody should be getting upset over.
PS – if you do somehow manage to pump exactly 10.000 gallons of gasoline, that 9/10¢ per gallon amounts to exactly 9¢ on your transaction, so there is no discrepancy and no fractional pennies to line anyone's pockets.
US 192 in Kissimmee has in many cases motorists not distributing themselves evenly between three lanes of traffic on the six lane arterial. I have missed many cues at the Poinciana Blvd. intersection because most of these exclusive left lane drivers are in a line going 30-35 mph on a 45 mph highway. Then the light in the left turn pocket is green with the arrow for protected left turn and a chance to make the light before it turns, is blocked by a long cue in the left lane with absolutely no one in the remaining two lanes.
Ughhh! That is not only something that cause me to wait an extra cycle and emit more fumes into the air, but wonder how can so many people be so stupid and give up a chance to drive more freely using two other open lanes considering that many of these slowpoke lines have no one turning left for several miles! Classic case of left lane richards, and most likely these slow drivers will be the ones making up the 85 percentile on our nation's interstates that like to travel at excessive speeds.
Even non road geeks were complaining about that at my work, about idiots who drive ridiculously slow in one specific lane for no apparent reason pissing off other vehicles in the process of just driving in groups for whatever reason.
That post was making very little sense to me until I realized you meant 'queue' instead of 'cue'.
Yes, this is also a pet peeve of mine: driving slower than the flow of traffic in the left lane for no reason. On regular avenues with limits of 35 mph or less, I don't mind quite so much for some reason, but anything more arterial than that makes me expect drivers to keep right.
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2015, 03:46:42 PM
That post was making very little sense to me until I realized you meant 'queue' instead of 'cue'.
Yes, this is also a pet peeve of mine: driving slower than the flow of traffic in the left lane for no reason. On regular avenues with limits of 35 mph or less, I don't mind quite so much for some reason, but anything more arterial than that makes me expect drivers to keep right.
I knew it was a queue but was not in the mood to look it up as I was unsure of how it is spelled. Plus this kind of stuff makes certain trolls on here get upset. Not to be one as well, but it is amazing how some people on here have that insecurity complex that they need a spelling error as a booster to their own self confidence. I figure give them a freebie as a public service
I found the misuse of the name "Richard" to be far more annoying than the misspelling. "Cue" instead of "queue" isn't all that uncommon.
Out of curiosity, roadman, do the people lining up in the left lane also leave way too much space between cars? I hate it when I'm trying to get into a turn lane and I can see people leaving gaps of a carlength or more such that if they pulled all the way up, I'd have plenty of room to get into the turn lane prior to the green arrow coming on.
Quote from roadman65:
QuoteUS 192 in Kissimmee has in many cases motorists not distributing themselves evenly between three lanes of traffic on the six lane arterial. I have missed many cues at the Poinciana Blvd. intersection because most of these exclusive left lane drivers are in a line going 30-35 mph on a 45 mph highway. Then the light in the left turn pocket is green with the arrow for protected left turn and a chance to make the light before it turns, is blocked by a long cue in the left lane with absolutely no one in the remaining two lanes.
Ughhh! That is not only something that cause me to wait an extra cycle and emit more fumes into the air, but wonder how can so many people be so stupid and give up a chance to drive more freely using two other open lanes considering that many of these slowpoke lines have no one turning left for several miles! Classic case of left lane richards, and most likely these slow drivers will be the ones making up the 85 percentile on our nation's interstates that like to travel at excessive speeds.
Even non road geeks were complaining about that at my work, about idiots who drive ridiculously slow in one specific lane for no apparent reason pissing off other vehicles in the process of just driving in groups for whatever reason.
Surely this is more of a problem on US 192 due to the fact that a large percentage of the traffic is tourists, and they may be in the left lane because they know they need to turn left somewhere down the road, but are unsure of the distance to the turn. I have driven in this area, and can tell you that it is much harder to estimate distance and wait until absolutely necessary to get into the left lane in an unfamiliar, or in my case slightly familiar area.
It would help this problem if they would post signs with distances to the next 3 to 6 major intersections, like they do for exits on freeways.
As far as intentional rudeness goes in Florida, I suspect that it is the locals doing it way more than tourists. Florida has a way bigger speeding and reckless driving problem than anywhere else I have ever been, and it appears that it is at least in part due to lax law enforcement.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 12, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
I found the misuse of the name "Richard" to be far more annoying than the misspelling. "Cue" instead of "queue" isn't all that uncommon.
Out of curiosity, roadman, do the people lining up in the left lane also leave way too much space between cars? I hate it when I'm trying to get into a turn lane and I can see people leaving gaps of a carlength or more such that if they pulled all the way up, I'd have plenty of room to get into the turn lane prior to the green arrow coming on.
Oh yes about the left turn lanes. Always you have people slow down usually 100 feet or more before a stop bar at an intersection, but when you yourself need to get into a queue they are then conservative slowing down way ahead of the intersection. US 192, I cannot tell you how many times I have missed a protected turn lane due to a slowpoke preventing me from entering the left turn lane.
In many cases a sign notifying a motorists of the next three intersections won't help. Heck dotted lines and an overhead EXIT ONLY cannot stop a person from being surprised in a lane drop onto an exit ramp, so this will not help either.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 12, 2015, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2015, 03:46:42 PM
That post was making very little sense to me until I realized you meant 'queue' instead of 'cue'.
Yes, this is also a pet peeve of mine: driving slower than the flow of traffic in the left lane for no reason. On regular avenues with limits of 35 mph or less, I don't mind quite so much for some reason, but anything more arterial than that makes me expect drivers to keep right.
I knew it was a queue but was not in the mood to look it up as I was unsure of how it is spelled. Plus this kind of stuff makes certain trolls on here get upset. Not to be one as well, but it is amazing how some people on here have that insecurity complex that they need a spelling error as a booster to their own self confidence. I figure give them a freebie as a public service
I didn't mean to be snarky, I was actually being serious. I kept trying to figure out what you meant by "missing many cues at the Poinciana Blvd. intersection". I was wracking my brain over that while continuing to read, and then it all clicked when I came to the second use of the word, which was more obvious. As you can see, I'm a little dense sometimes; just ask my wife.
Around here, the scenario you describe rarely prevents me from entering a left-turn lane as I wish. At one particular intersection, though, traffic in the left lane often stacks up to form a longer queue than than in the right lane, and there's a hard median; getting in the left turn lane there is often physically impossible.
Quote from: Brian556 on October 12, 2015, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from roadman65:
QuoteUS 192 in Kissimmee has in many cases motorists not distributing themselves evenly between three lanes of traffic on the six lane arterial. I have missed many cues at the Poinciana Blvd. intersection because most of these exclusive left lane drivers are in a line going 30-35 mph on a 45 mph highway. Then the light in the left turn pocket is green with the arrow for protected left turn and a chance to make the light before it turns, is blocked by a long cue in the left lane with absolutely no one in the remaining two lanes.
Ughhh! That is not only something that cause me to wait an extra cycle and emit more fumes into the air, but wonder how can so many people be so stupid and give up a chance to drive more freely using two other open lanes considering that many of these slowpoke lines have no one turning left for several miles! Classic case of left lane richards, and most likely these slow drivers will be the ones making up the 85 percentile on our nation's interstates that like to travel at excessive speeds.
Even non road geeks were complaining about that at my work, about idiots who drive ridiculously slow in one specific lane for no apparent reason pissing off other vehicles in the process of just driving in groups for whatever reason.
Surely this is more of a problem on US 192 due to the fact that a large percentage of the traffic is tourists, and they may be in the left lane because they know they need to turn left somewhere down the road, but are unsure of the distance to the turn. I have driven in this area, and can tell you that it is much harder to estimate distance and wait until absolutely necessary to get into the left lane in an unfamiliar, or in my case slightly familiar area.
It may be tourists in the case of US 192, but this accurately describes behavior I've seen all over Florida, mostly in non-tourist areas (to the extent that such exist in the state). And yes, it is very annoying, because now I have to get into the left lane line much earlier than should be necessary, making it a self-compounding problem.
People drive at 6+ below the speed limit. Come on, we're all in a hurry!
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 12, 2015, 09:04:21 PM
People drive at 6+ below the speed limit. Come on, we're all in a hurry!
Agreed. I almost always drive above the speed limit, but I'm rarely annoyed by slower drivers who at least do five under. Slower than five under, though, and my blood pressure does start to rise.
People who don't get into the left-turn lane to make the turn.
Quote from: Big John on October 12, 2015, 10:18:48 PM
People who don't get into the left-turn lane to make the turn.
Especially common in the presence of a TWLTL. And usually at 10 mph under the limit leading up to it. Grrrrr..
The term "Richard" is being polite unlike some users who use the nicknamed famous for the male body part, except for Sean Hannity's best friend in Florida, Governor Scott who the talk show host says we got the best economy and that Scott changed our state for the better which is an absolute lie! I have no problem calling Rick Scott: Dick Scott in any public domain. He is the exception and not the norm. That is another story as the thought of that bald headed idiot makes my blood boil and I could continue on with it into a 500 page book.
Yes tourists are such bad drivers. Yes they are not familiar with roads, but obstructing traffic and not using common sense is not being a safe driver. Turning left from one of the through lanes and waiting for the green arrow blocking the through lane queue ( I got it right) is very dumb especially on some other roads as well as US 192 where a median break exists 100 to 200 feet later with no signal to wait for and minimum inconvenience, yet they will be pricks and block a lane knowing full well that they do it. Of course in Orange and Osceola County the cops are always scarce when the worst drivers are out (usually one bad driver ever 30 seconds of travel and in rush hours ever 10 seconds). The moving violations alone if every cop did their jobs would pay for each officer's salary and keep the tax rate down in theory (as we all know that extra money in the treasury these days goes to pork spending, but that is for another forum someplace else on the mighty web).
Quote from: roadman65 on October 13, 2015, 12:31:54 AM
The term "Richard" is being polite unlike some users who use the nicknamed famous for the male body part ....
I'm aware he thinks he's being nice by censoring a word some people consider a vulgarity. All I meant is that some of us named "Richard" don't particularly like seeing our name used as a vulgarity!
(My father once said people of my generation don't use the nickname "Dick" because we have sick minds. He's partly right, although another reason I don't use it is because he does and when I was growing up I didn't want to go by the same nickname my father did. I knew a girl in high school who tried to call me "Dick" because of its other meaning, so finally I told her I'd call her "Cunt" if she did it again. Of course she tried it in front of the assistant principal, but that didn't stop me from keeping my promise. I didn't get in any trouble, either, when I explained why I said it.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 13, 2015, 12:49:11 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 13, 2015, 12:31:54 AM
The term "Richard" is being polite unlike some users who use the nicknamed famous for the male body part ....
I'm aware he thinks he's being nice by censoring a word some people consider a vulgarity. All I meant is that some of us named "Richard" don't particularly like seeing our name used as a vulgarity!
(My father once said people of my generation don't use the nickname "Dick" because we have sick minds. He's partly right, although another reason I don't use it is because he does and when I was growing up I didn't want to go by the same nickname my father did. I knew a girl in high school who tried to call me "Dick" because of its other meaning, so finally I told her I'd call her "Cunt" if she did it again. Of course she tried it in front of the assistant principal, but that didn't stop me from keeping my promise. I didn't get in any trouble, either, when I explained why I said it.)
Phillip K. Dick
Quote from: roadman65 on October 13, 2015, 12:31:54 AM
The term "Richard" is being polite unlike some users who use the nicknamed famous for the male body part, except for Sean Hannity's best friend in Florida, Governor Scott who the talk show host says we got the best economy and that Scott changed our state for the better which is an absolute lie! I have no problem calling Rick Scott: Dick Scott in any public domain. He is the exception and not the norm. That is another story as the thought of that bald headed idiot makes my blood boil and I could continue on with it into a 500 page book.
Wow, you and NE2 have something in common after all! :bigass:
Scott was here in Kentucky recently, recruiting businesses to move from here to Florida, touting Florida's lack of an income tax as a business-friendly environment. I would trade your governor for ours in a heartbeat.
"I know this guy named Richard, he's my redneck friend." Go listen to the song "Dick In The Dirt" by Sammy Hagar.
I knew a guy one time who everyone called "Richard Cranium." I think he finally started answering to it because people used that moniker more often than his real name.
Returning to road-related pet peeves:
I suppose this is more traffic- or driver-related, but I'll list it anyway: People who block the box, and also people who honk at you when you don't block the box.
(The latter: On the way to the Caps game last night I couldn't clear the intersection at 15th & H, so I stopped. The cabbie behind me went ballistic honking. Didn't do him any good, of course. When some space eventually opened and I went, he then got over and charged down the left-turn lane and forced his way back into the straight-thru lane maybe two cars ahead of me.)
Last February it took us half an hour to go half a mile downtown due to box-blockers....
Tempting, though I won't ever really do it: once a week, take the morning off work, go to a notorious intersection with a rented bulldozer, and keep the box unblocked.
Quote from: Zeffy on October 08, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Thanks to some fucking dickbag who didn't signal, the person in front of my sisters car had to slam on her brakes and swerve to avoid hitting the car while they abruptly slammed on their brakes to turn while another car pulled out into traffic. My sister and I didn't have anywhere to go and, despite jamming the brakes, the momentum was too great and we ended up plowing into the back of the car ahead of us. The damage to our car was horrific, while the other person escaped relatively unscathed. The person who caused this bullshit drove off and acted like he didn't do anything. We weren't even tailgating or going more than 3 mph over the speed limit (40).
Thankfully the girl we hit was super nice and didn't even want to hold us liable.
Please people, even if it's the last minute just flick your fucking wrist to signal. It's not hard, and it's fucking helpful so we can slow down and you can turn in even if you have to fucking stop to let another car pass.
why you swear so much?
Quote from: dmr37 on October 22, 2015, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on October 08, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Thanks to some fucking dickbag who didn't signal, the person in front of my sisters car had to slam on her brakes and swerve to avoid hitting the car while they abruptly slammed on their brakes to turn while another car pulled out into traffic. My sister and I didn't have anywhere to go and, despite jamming the brakes, the momentum was too great and we ended up plowing into the back of the car ahead of us. The damage to our car was horrific, while the other person escaped relatively unscathed. The person who caused this bullshit drove off and acted like he didn't do anything. We weren't even tailgating or going more than 3 mph over the speed limit (40).
Thankfully the girl we hit was super nice and didn't even want to hold us liable.
Please people, even if it's the last minute just flick your fucking wrist to signal. It's not hard, and it's fucking helpful so we can slow down and you can turn in even if you have to fucking stop to let another car pass.
why you swear so much?
Do you have to use so many cuss words?What the **** you talking about?Okay, Dude, have it your way.
Quote from: kurumi on October 14, 2015, 11:22:12 AM
Tempting, though I won't ever really do it: once a week, take the morning off work, go to a notorious intersection with a rented bulldozer, and keep the box unblocked.
oh, how I would love to do this to all the cars that block intersections along Broad St in Philly - not cars crossing Broad St, but the cars on Broad St itself at Arch, Race, Vine, Callowhill...
Quote from: Zeffy on October 08, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Thanks to some fucking dickbag who didn't signal, the person in front of my sisters car had to slam on her brakes and swerve to avoid hitting the car while they abruptly slammed on their brakes to turn while another car pulled out into traffic. My sister and I didn't have anywhere to go and, despite jamming the brakes, the momentum was too great and we ended up plowing into the back of the car ahead of us. The damage to our car was horrific, while the other person escaped relatively unscathed. The person who caused this bullshit drove off and acted like he didn't do anything. We weren't even tailgating or going more than 3 mph over the speed limit (40).
Thankfully the girl we hit was super nice and didn't even want to hold us liable.
Please people, even if it's the last minute just flick your fucking wrist to signal. It's not hard, and it's fucking helpful so we can slow down and you can turn in even if you have to fucking stop to let another car pass.
My pet peeve is people who tailgate and will rear end me if I have to slam my brakes because a deer runs out our a refrigerator falls off the flatbed truck in front of me.
I use my signal, but I have ZERO sympatgy for people that rear end. If you rear end one of three things are ALWAYS the case:
1. You were tailgating
2. You aren't keeping your brakes in good enough condition for driving (it's absolutely terrifying how bad a lot of people's brakes are- even if they aren't squeaking, those cheap aftermarket Chinese pads people use are just awful at stopping cars)
3. You aren't paying attention
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 01, 2015, 08:43:14 PM
–Traffic lights located on the near side of an intersection such that you either have to stop well back of the stop line or else bend your head down to see the light.
–"Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs. Use "Keep Right Except to Pass." People don't like to think they're "slow," and too many people think driving the speed limit means you're not "slower."
–"Reduced Speed Ahead" signs. I much prefer the style telling you what the reduced speed limit will be. But if you must use the generic sign, it should say "Reduce Speed Ahead" because it's the speed limit that is reduced and the sign is telling you to prepare to slow down to conform with that. In other words, whether any "speed" is actually reduced depends on the individual driver.
–The annoying American predilection for stop signs when yield signs would do.
–Traffic lights that don't have the very nice combined red/yellow phase used in the UK and many other places in Europe that tells you when the light is about to turn green. I've never understood why this isn't used everywhere.
It should be "Reduced Speed Limit Ahead" to me....
1. Left lane hogs have already been mentioned here, so let's include center lane hogs. I'm referring specifically to the center lane of 3-lane sections of freeways, not surface streets. I wonder if the truckers who complain about 4-wheelers passing them on the right are the same ones hogging the center lane. I pass on the right only when there is traffic that's faster than me already in the left lane. Man, I wish the Indiana State Police would enforce the "slower traffic must keep to the right" law. (And, no, I'm not bashing truckers or trying to bait anyone into a rebuttal that includes a lengthy list of justifications of why it's okay to hang out in the center lane at 55 or 60 mph when most of the traffic is going around you on both sides at 70 to 75 mph.)
2. Adding "the" in front of highway numbers. Grrrrr. Sorry, but this one drives me insane. Enough said. I don't want to be that guy. I'm just sayin...
Quote from: Rushmeister on December 23, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
1. Left lane hogs have already been mentioned here, so let's include center lane hogs. I'm referring specifically to the center lane of 3-lane sections of freeways, not surface streets. I wonder if the truckers who complain about 4-wheelers passing them on the right are the same ones hogging the center lane. I pass on the right only when there is traffic that's faster than me already in the left lane.
I do likewise, although I don't refer to it as "passing". To me, passing is something you do to vehicles in front of you, not the ones next to you. So if I come up behind somebody in my own lane, and I move over to get by him, that's passing. But if I'm in one lane all along, and I just happen to drive by somebody who's in a different lane and is going slower than I am, that's not passing.* While this usually happens to me while I'm in the right lane, it also applies to those who stay in the left lane, going faster than the vehicles beside them but not purposely passing any specific vehicle or group of vehicles.
*To be more precise, that
is "passing", while moving over to get around somebody would be "overtaking". But in the U.S. we say "passing" to mean "overtaking", so I make a distinction between "passing" in the sense of overtaking, and just happening to go past something.
Quote from: Rushmeister on December 23, 2015, 01:40:10 PM
2. Adding "the" in front of highway numbers. Grrrrr. Sorry, but this one drives me insane. Enough said. I don't want to be that guy. I'm just sayin...
It's the sure sign of a Southern Californian who refuses to assimilate. Up here in Seattle, that's a trigger for us to make fun of you in a light-hearted manner.
From our roadway designers:
- Traffic signals hung diagonally across the road. Its ugly and hard to see.
- Signs attempted to be mounted at angles. If you don't want traffic entering from the left, the correct sign is no left turn. Angling a do not enter sign slightly towards the left turning vehicle is just confusing. I know its not prohibited entering the roadway, I see the arrow on the pavement and a right lane going down that road. And then suddenly, with a truck tapping the sign or a strong wind, it twisted 10 degrees and is now facing the wrong direction.
- Lack of right turn lanes. Even if they're real short, having one or two vehicles going straight causing me to have to wait 4 minutes to make a right at a light is very frustrating. I think engineers seriously underestimate the traffic flow improvements provided by right turn lanes not just to turning traffic, but thru traffic and total roadway capacity as well.
- Lanes ending right before an intersection. Lanes should end AT (by becoming turn only) or AFTER intersections. Reducing the size of the road for a red light is never a good idea.
For the drivers:
- People keeping the local roadways unbalanced. In suburban/urban areas, all lanes should have approximately the same number of vehicles in them during any sort of congestion. One road near me, the right lane has probably 40% the people trying to turn right onto the highway 2 miles down, 40% trying to turn at one o of the 20+ intersections before the highway and 20% driving straight thru (which makes 0 sense as the left lane nearly never has congestion, why wouldn't you use the lane with no congestion if thats the one where you need where you are going anyways?!?). I always have to use the left lane and cut over to the right last second to make any of the turns before the highway to avoid waiting on the line for the highway. The highway ramp is also free flowing, so its real easy to merge over with all the people making the other rights to get onto the highway after the last signal.
- People who merge way too early. When a lane does end, you should merge near the end of the lane. It is really bad to impede traffic to try to get out of the lane 1000s of feet before it ends, and you're hurting traffic, as you're going to make the people trying to enter the turn lanes on that side of the street not have room to do so. In South Florida, people mostly do this right... going north of it... not so much.
- People who act like its the end of the world when there is an emergency vehicle behind them trying to get out to the way, causing more roadway problems. I know when I am in a certain "small town" that claims they're really smart, an awfully large amount of people do the following:
1) stop in the middle of the road without regard for where everyone else is stopping. If you're stopping the right lane when everyone else has cleared the path for on the right and the emergency vehicle is on the right, you're impeding its path.
2) popping the curb. everyone here seems to love emergency vehicles as an excuse to pop the curb. A lot of people do it awfully slowly, or because multiple people from multiple lanes are trying to do it, they end up parking with the 2 front tires over the curb and the entire back of the vehicle is still blocking the lane that you were supposedly trying to clear
3) getting out of the wrong lane. there were a bunch of us in the left turn lane and an ambulance was coming by. thru traffic has a green light and is mostly clear. what should the vehicles safely stopped on the left side of the road do? clearly block all of the other lanes of traffic that were empty
4) not paying attention to surroundings. I notice the emergency vehicle way back, and see 5 cars in the left lane at the traffic light in front of me and 1 car to the right who is trying to make a right turn anyways. I of course utilize the left lane so by the time its here, the right lane is clear. Of course, as soon as the other people hear the sirens, the person right in front of me decides to pull over to the right, blocking the clear path. Then they start looking at everyone else of why they aren't doing the same as them instead of getting out of the way. Its a hell of a lot easier for you to move your one vehicle instead of 20 people needing to move to get out the way.
5) not knowing they can proceed at the green light with an emergency vehicle behind them. The signal pre-emption is partly to help clear out the congestion in front of emergency. If you're trying to turn off the road anyways, go ahead and do it, you don't need to park on the side of the road. If its faster and easier for you to pull over after the intersection because there is not already 20 people trying to do so right where you are, do that. You have a green light.
6) and the award winners: people who do all of the above on the wrong side of the divided road. On divided roadways, emergency vehicles do not typically turn randomly and jump over curbs or jersey barriers... all you need to do is not proceed through intersections where the emergency vehicle could potentially be turning. I got it, by doing all these other dangerous things completely unexpected and for no reason, maybe we can make an accident on the other side of the road that requires their attention, so that the emergency vehicle can be on scene already and not need to continue traversing the road!
Wow, I thought that behavior was reserved for SimCity 4's U Drive It mode.
Three things -
1) People who make right-hand turns from the actually lane, as opposed to using the shoulder to get off the highway and turn. It is complete;y inconsiderate to the flow of traffic behind you. Get off the road and don't be an impediment to the traffic behind you.
2) People do no know how to make left-handed turns at intersections. Modern vehicles handle better than the ever have, and yet people still feel the need to cut corners hard at intersections, and usually end up entering the turning lane for that portion of the intersection. God forbid someone is approaching that turning lane when someone is making that kind of hard turn. In the age of power steering, there is no reason to have to cut the wheel so hard.
3) People who cut out in front of you when there is no one behind you and then proceed to 1) go 10 MPH below the speed limit or 2) immediately exit within the next few locations. You couldn't wait until I passed, when it was obviously clear behind me, or was it your sole intention to be inconsiderate?
Quote from: pderocco on October 08, 2015, 12:18:57 AM
Quote from: allniter89 on September 27, 2015, 06:17:14 PM
My peeve is drivers who don't turn their turn signal off. My brother turned in front of a vehicle with its left signal on & crashed, bro got the ticket, failure to yield.
People who put their right turn signal on when the turn they intend to make is two streets up, and I'm waiting to pull out of the first street. You shouldn't turn you signal on until you're going to turn into the next street.
Too bad. If there's someone behind me, I want him to have more than a couple hundred feet' notice that I'll be slowing down to turn. Obviously depends on traffic speed and how closely the streets are spaced.
Quote from: jas on December 26, 2015, 08:21:51 AM
1) People who make right-hand turns from the actually lane, as opposed to using the shoulder to get off the highway and turn. It is complete;y inconsiderate to the flow of traffic behind you. Get off the road and don't be an impediment to the traffic behind you.
Do you still consider this inconsiderate in those jurisdictions where it's the required method?
Passing lanes at rural intersections at stoplights (example) (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5041006,-87.1573238,3a,75y,316.34h,88.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL-l8b64KD0LCdcJx2pfwpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). This is on SR-130 just northwest of Valparaiso, IN. I'm not sure if many more of these exist.
Now, I'm all for this kind of lane when there isn't a stoplight; I, like many other drivers in the Midwest, will simply stay in the left lane unless someone in front of me is turning, in which case I would pass them in the right lane. When there is a stoplight, though, it makes things more difficult. If I'm stopped at the red light going straight, I'll usually hang out in the left lane, especially if I'm first or second in line. Then, supposedly, I would be out of the way for people who approach the intersection just as the light turns green so they don't have to wait for me to accelerate.
The problem is that people tend to form a queue for both lanes, effectively screwing everyone over when the two lanes instantly funnel into one. What they should do here instead is simply mark the left lane as a turn-only lane.
How about, when giving directions, people often say that one road "dead ends" at another road. Clearly, if a road ends at another road, it ain't a dead end!
(I know, it's a heck of a necro, but this is the right thread for it, and it's not important enough for a new topic, so...)
In my mind, this is the subject of the recent movie It Follows:
Me: "The restaurant's right off I-95. You take 9 south, then get on I-95 south toward-"
Other driver: "Oh no, that's too complicated. Tell you what, we'll just follow you!"
Proceeds to drive 5 MPH below speed limit, braking for yellow lights, pulling in behind a truck, stopping at Starbucks, etc.
Other passenger in my car: "OMG we can't seeee them, they're going to get losssst, slow down and let them catch up..." I swear I could come to a complete stop and the following person would start driving backwards.
Fortunately smartphones and GPS have mitigated a lot of this: text the address, meet you there. But some still get upset if they lose visual on the other car.
Quote from: empirestate on December 28, 2018, 11:30:36 AM
How about, when giving directions, people often say that one road "dead ends" at another road. Clearly, if a road ends at another road, it ain't a dead end!
(I know, it's a heck of a necro, but this is the right thread for it, and it's not important enough for a new topic, so...)
.
I hate that, too!
Some big rig truck blocking a road sign.
VMS signs that say "Construction Zone X Miles Ahead" followed by "Caution, Caution, Caution." I get that the three "cautions" are probably meant simply to fill the VMS but it sounds absolutely terrible when verbalized. Imagine if you went into an area of a building being mopped and there was two signs; one saying "wet floor ahead" followed by "caution, caution, caution."
Quote from: kurumi on December 28, 2018, 04:20:11 PM
....
Fortunately smartphones and GPS have mitigated a lot of this: text the address, meet you there. But some still get upset if they lose visual on the other car.
What drives me nuts is if you do agree to follow someone and that person then fails to use his blinkers.
I'm taking the opportunity to move this here so it doesn't continue to overrun the "Minor Things that Bother You" thread.
Here is the original list of "Things That Deliberately Waste Other Drivers' Time and Make The Road Network Less Efficient™", with some slight modifications to expand and/or clarify:
Quote from: webny99 on September 29, 2023, 03:39:38 PM
- Not using the shoulder to pass left turning vehicles when it's wide enough to do so
- Not using the shoulder to turn right when it's wide enough to do so, including passing others and allowing them to pass you, depending on the context
Blocking Using the right lane to queue at a red light when the left lane is open if right turning traffic is approaching and the shoulder is too narrow to accommodate right turns- Slowing down when approaching a stale green light or stopping for a yellow light
- Not noticing when a signal has turned green, especially missing half the length of a protected left turn phase due to inattentiveness
- Excessive hesitancy to pass in legal passing zones on two-lane roads, including lack of speed differential awareness (i.e. if someone is going 35 mph, overtaking them is not a high-stress, intense affair and is in fact, a calm, casual, everyday maneuver that does not require exceeding 50 mph)
- Hesitancy or outright unwillingness to pass cops, even when they're traveling at or below the speed limit
- Left lane camping
- Brake checking
And here are some additions to the list, summarized from discussion in the other thread:
- Hesitancy to change lanes
- Middle lane camping/tailgating when there's an open passing lane
- Leaving gaps when stopped at a signal, blocking access to turn lanes/channelized turns
- Poor lane positioning that blocks through traffic
- Not turning right on red during opposing protected arrow phase
- When turning left, waiting behind the stop line/not completing the turn when the light changes
And finally, a couple more I thought of today:
- Braking just because someone merges into your lane front of you on the freeway, even if they're driving faster than you and/or a safe distance in front
- Braking for speed bumps/speed humps. It's wearing on your brakes, creates a jerky experience for passengers, creates a chain reaction for drivers behind you, is never necessary if you're driving an appropriate speed, and worst of all, it could be interpreted as justifying their existence. So unless you actually like speed bumps and want to encourage planners to install more of them.. don't brake for them [/rant]
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 04:43:42 PM
...
- ... stopping for a yellow light
....
- Braking for speed bumps/speed humps. It's wearing on your brakes, creates a jerky experience for passengers, creates a chain reaction for drivers behind you, is never necessary if you're driving an appropriate speed, and worst of all, it could be interpreted as justifying their existence. So unless you actually like speed bumps and want to encourage planners to install more of them.. don't brake for them [/rant]
I will often stop at a yellow light, especially if it's already turned yellow when I'm approaching it—I don't normally speed up to beat the light. Part of the reason has to do with red-light cameras and not wanting to have to think about which intersections have them and which ones don't. Plus a few years ago the District of Columbia was talking about outfitting their red light cameras with photo radar to ticket people who speed up to above the speed limit to go through the yellow. I don't know whether they ever did that, but I don't much care to find out the hard way.
Regarding speed bumps/speed humps, it's absolutely not always the case that it is never necessary to brake for them if you're going an appropriate speed. That
should be how it works, but it isn't. Some neighborhoods in which the community owns the streets will install sharper speed bumps of the sort that are more appropriate for a parking lot. I've also encountered sharp speed bumps on VDOT-owned streets in the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax County, where they were installed to discourage "cut-through traffic" (people using the neighborhood streets to bypass traffic on surrounding arterials). Their speed bumps used to make you slow down to no more than 15 mph to traverse them (speed limit was 25) and they were sharp enough that going any faster was likely to cause you problems. I suspect that one reason they got away with those sort of speed humps was that a congressman (Gerry Connolly) lives in that neighborhood and got his start in politics from his involvement with their citizens' association back in the 1980s/1990s.
While I don't particularly like speed humps, if the speed limit is 25 and I can traverse the speed humps at 25 mph I don't get too annoyed about them. It's the ones that make you slow down that I resent.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2023, 04:56:39 PM
I will often stop at a yellow light, especially if it's already turned yellow when I'm approaching it—I don't normally speed up to beat the light. Part of the reason has to do with red-light cameras and not wanting to have to think about which intersections have them and which ones don't. Plus a few years ago the District of Columbia was talking about outfitting their red light cameras with photo radar to ticket people who speed up to above the speed limit to go through the yellow. I don't know whether they ever did that, but I don't much care to find out the hard way.
That is fair. The main reason I added the bit about stopping on yellow was to accommodate
jakeroot's point, which was in the context of Japan where they're more aggressive about going on yellow. That being said, if you have time to come to a complete stop
before the light turns red, that strikes me as an indicator that you could have made it through fine. Obviously, if you're far enough back, slowing down while the light is still yellow is normal and expected.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2023, 04:56:39 PM
Some neighborhoods in which the community owns the streets will install sharper speed bumps of the sort that are more appropriate for a parking lot. I've also encountered sharp speed bumps on VDOT-owned streets in the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax County, where they were installed to discourage "cut-through traffic" (people using the neighborhood streets to bypass traffic on surrounding arterials). Their speed bumps used to make you slow down to no more than 15 mph to traverse them (speed limit was 25) and they were sharp enough that going any faster was likely to cause you problems.
That sounds terrible. I've seen what I think you're describing in parks and parking lots, but not on a public roadway. Even so, I would resist the accelerating/braking cycles, even if it meant only speeding up a little bit between each one. I would much rather that than the yo-yoing of 25 mph to 10 mph multiplied by the number of speed bumps.
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 05:17:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2023, 04:56:39 PM
Some neighborhoods in which the community owns the streets will install sharper speed bumps of the sort that are more appropriate for a parking lot. I've also encountered sharp speed bumps on VDOT-owned streets in the Mantua neighborhood in Fairfax County, where they were installed to discourage "cut-through traffic" (people using the neighborhood streets to bypass traffic on surrounding arterials). Their speed bumps used to make you slow down to no more than 15 mph to traverse them (speed limit was 25) and they were sharp enough that going any faster was likely to cause you problems.
That sounds terrible. I've seen what I think you're describing in parks and parking lots, but not on a public roadway. Even so, I would resist the accelerating/braking cycles, even if it meant only speeding up a little bit between each one. I would much rather that than the yo-yoing of 25 mph to 10 mph multiplied by the number of speed bumps.
The thing I think is by far the least appropriate is driving through a neighborhood with speed humps in the middle of the night blasting your horn as a way of getting "revenge" on the people there who supported the speed humps. Over the years I've seen news reports about disgruntled commuters who do that sort of thing, which then causes the community to ask the police to come out there and lie in wait for the horn-honkers to bust them for disturbing the peace.
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 04:43:42 PM
Braking just because someone merges into your lane front of you on the freeway, even if they're driving faster than you and/or a safe distance in front
My best friend does this. Then he immediately spends the next ten seconds griping about how he was "cut off" by the other driver.
This is the same guy who refuses to duck back into the right lane while slowly passing multiple vehicles, then gripes about the driver who inevitably races around him on the right because there's plenty of room there.
It's almost enough to end a friendship, let me tell you...
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 04:43:42 PM
Braking for speed bumps/speed humps. It's wearing on your brakes, creates a jerky experience for passengers, creates a chain reaction for drivers behind you, is never necessary if you're driving an appropriate speed, and worst of all, it could be interpreted as justifying their existence. So unless you actually like speed bumps and want to encourage planners to install more of them.. don't brake for them [/rant]
1. I'd rather have to replace brake pads than shocks/struts.
2. You obviously don't drive over the same speed bumps/humps I do. I once bottomed out on a speed bump and dented the muffler in a rental car. I don't slow down much if any for
small speed bumps, but that's certainly not all speed bumps.
3. Do you honestly think planners will stop installing speed bumps if people stop slowing down for them? No, what will happen is that they'll make the speed bumps
bigger.
One of mine is when there's a sign such as "RIGHT LANE MUST TURN RIGHT" -- I'm thinking I need to merge left quickly, and then realize the sign was referring to the turn pocket about to be created, not the current right-most lane.
Another is a ramp like one near me, where a sign has arrows indicating that the lane assignments are left, straight, and right. However, there's only two lanes at the point where the sign is posted -- if I want to go straight, which lane should I try to be in? I don't know how to fix this one without making the lane assignment diagrams more complicated.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 04, 2023, 05:33:45 PM
The thing I think is by far the least appropriate is driving through a neighborhood with speed humps in the middle of the night blasting your horn as a way of getting "revenge" on the people there who supported the speed humps. Over the years I've seen news reports about disgruntled commuters who do that sort of thing, which then causes the community to ask the police to come out there and lie in wait for the horn-honkers to bust them for disturbing the peace.
That's obviously a crazy thing to do. The concept of exacting revenge on speed bump supporters is a strange one; after all, there couldn't possibly be greater payback than actually having to live on a street with speed bumps. And if it was one's own street, it certainly wouldn't be worth doing that because half the neighborhood would already know who you are and where you live, and the half that didn't would soon find out.
Quote from: GaryA on October 04, 2023, 07:17:12 PM
Another is a ramp like one near me, where a sign has arrows indicating that the lane assignments are left, straight, and right. However, there's only two lanes at the point where the sign is posted -- if I want to go straight, which lane should I try to be in? I don't know how to fix this one without making the lane assignment diagrams more complicated.
This is not exactly related, but reminded me of another example: when there are two turn lanes, but one turns into a lane which ends shortly past the intersection, so everyone queues in the lane that continues as a through lane, leaving an empty turn lane while traffic at the end of the queue backs up and waits through multiple light cycles.
This is a regular occurrence at the NY 104 EB exit ramp to NY 250, exactly as shown
here (https://maps.app.goo.gl/crum97Dfj6kbRGvD6) where you can see the entire scenario playing out, right down to the red light on the other side of the underpass which will prevent more than about 3-4 more cars from clearing the intersection, so there will be cars dead stopped
at a green light!! despite an open turn lane. The level of gutlessness is so absurd it's almost amusing. It's definitely one of those things that would befuddle drivers in any other country except
maybe Canada.. and probably even them.
Quote from: kphoger on October 04, 2023, 05:41:23 PM
This is the same guy who refuses to duck back into the right lane while slowly passing multiple vehicles, then gripes about the driver who inevitably races around him on the right because there's plenty of room there.
If he's going to gripe, why did he let it happen then? :) I grew up driving with my dad, who generally made sure that didn't happen by sticking extra close to the car in front until past the slower traffic. And while I don't take fault with that because I do find it annoying when people cut around on the right, I've been the guy cutting around on the right often enough that I prefer to apply an additional dose of adaptability with what I call the "15 second rule". I'll move right if I can stay right for at least 15 seconds without slowing down significantly, or if both lanes are moving at around the same speed. Otherwise, I'll just speed up instead, even if it means temporarily driving faster than I normally would to keep up with the car in front.
Quote from: kphoger on October 04, 2023, 05:41:23 PM
2. You obviously don't drive over the same speed bumps/humps I do. I once bottomed out on a speed bump and dented the muffler in a rental car. I don't slow down much if any for small speed bumps, but that's certainly not all speed bumps.
What size speed bumps are you talking about here? I'm used to
this kind (https://maps.app.goo.gl/S3uxTT72Kewbi7UJ6), which are fairly gradual and (usually) easy enough to miss with the right side of your vehicle, allowing them to be crossed at 15-20 mph.
Quote from: kphoger on October 04, 2023, 05:41:23 PM
3. Do you honestly think planners will stop installing speed bumps if people stop slowing down for them? No, what will happen is that they'll make the speed bumps bigger.
Two conflations of terms going on here:
1. My entire point is that
slowing down for speed bumps does
not mean braking. It's entirely possible to slow down to an appropriate speed just by lifting one's foot off the accelerator. No braking needed. I can't think of any situation where a series of speed bumps would be simultaneously so far apart that you'd get going too fast and have to brake for each one, so hard to see coming that coasting up to each one wouldn't be feasible, and hit so hard that they need to be taken at a crawl.
2. Making speed bumps bigger would not necessarily mean they would have to be taken at lower speeds. The small parking-lot style ones that are almost like rumble strips can hit so hard it feels like your tire is going to fall right off. Meanwhile, it might be possible to roll right over a larger speed bump at the speed limit. And if they're really super-sized, drivers may even find it enjoyable to get air off of them intentionally.
A few that ODOT likes to do:
[JCT]
[256]
[←→]
(the JCT and arrow assemblies are supposed to be in different places)
[END]
[418]
[256]
[←→]
(only 418 is ending here, and junctioning 256, but that's ambiguous because the END is on top)
...and any instance of JCT on a freeway guide sign, because if there wasn't a junction, there would be nothing to say since you couldn't access it.
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 09:26:50 PM
What size speed bumps are you talking about here? I'm used to this kind (https://maps.app.goo.gl/S3uxTT72Kewbi7UJ6), which are fairly gradual and (usually) easy enough to miss with the right side of your vehicle, allowing them to be crossed at 15-20 mph.
Wichita:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HoPau8zQMT6wsHks8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Gqy4zRagbJHq7twg8
Mexico:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/yCUwdTtMfcVo8Ybe7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5aShUMbNF6TGSXsF8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/nv83r6Uay7E3UYZ17
Speed "ruts" are the worst.. and the lack of signage is the cherry on top. I can see how those would require braking.
If they're part of a series, they might even fit this description, which I figured was impossible (and probably is in the US):
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 09:26:50 PM
I can't think of any situation where a series of speed bumps would be simultaneously so far apart that you'd get going too fast and have to brake for each one, so hard to see coming that coasting up to each one wouldn't be feasible, and hit so hard that they need to be taken at a crawl.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 01, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
I.E., little things that tick the roadgeek in you off.
For example, I HATE when people write interstate #'s like: I-70 = 1-70. It just ain't right. :banghead: :pan: :thumbdown:
So IH70? or Interstate 70? What would you have in YOUR stylebook?
Quote from: webny99 on October 04, 2023, 09:26:50 PM
1. My entire point is that slowing down for speed bumps does not mean braking. It's entirely possible to slow down to an appropriate speed just by lifting one's foot off the accelerator. No braking needed. I can't think of any situation where a series of speed bumps would be simultaneously so far apart that you'd get going too fast and have to brake for each one, so hard to see coming that coasting up to each one wouldn't be feasible, and hit so hard that they need to be taken at a crawl.
Depends on the vehicle. Some slow down faster than others when coasting. Plus people have varying tolerances for the jolt.
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2023, 12:17:19 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 01, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
I.E., little things that tick the roadgeek in you off.
For example, I HATE when people write interstate #'s like: I-70 = 1-70. It just ain't right. :banghead: :pan: :thumbdown:
So IH70? or Interstate 70? What would you have in YOUR stylebook?
If you're a Texan, then you would default to IH ##. All others, it would be Interstate ##.
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2023, 12:17:19 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on September 01, 2015, 02:21:06 PM
I.E., little things that tick the roadgeek in you off.
For example, I HATE when people write interstate #'s like: I-70 = 1-70. It just ain't right. :banghead: :pan: :thumbdown:
So IH70? or Interstate 70? What would you have in YOUR stylebook?
Pssst, check the date on the post you're quoting...
1-70 is objectively wrong though, unless you really do mean to refer to Interstates 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15...68, 69, 70.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 06, 2023, 12:43:34 AM
1-70 is objectively wrong though, unless you really do mean to refer to Interstates 2, 4, 5, 8, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15...68, 69, 70.
Now, now... In Wichita, "35" and "135" are synonymous...
Inconsistent concurrency signage. In California, sometimes US-101 and CA-1 are signed as a concurrency, other times they are not. Technically, concurrencies do not exist, generally the "lesser" route exists in non-contiguous signage. (So not signing CA-1 between Oxnard and the Las Cruces Junction makes sense, however it's signed between Pismo Beach and San Luis Obispo). So this is a case of either sign all concurrencies, or don't. In the case of California, don't sign them because that's the guideline that was established in 1964. (I should also note that I like how a lot of mapping apps will show concurrencies, I think this is a nice compromise. Only sign the significant route, let the apps show every other possible concurrency).
People in the curb lane of double right turn lanes who take their turn wide.
Semi-road -- landscape designers who call for shrubs and foliage in islands in parking lots that block the view of oncoming traffic.
In general just how much it's accelerated post 2020 where people think they can do whatever they have to to avoid taking an L. Not only turning from a turn lane that doesn't exist, but feeling entitled enough to believe you can hold up traffic however long you need to to avoid missing your turn. Last winter witnessing people running reds in a snowstorm because they missed their green due to getting stuck in the snow and not even paying attention to cross traffic like they had a right to take their turn as if I was supposed to yield to them. NO!
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 18, 2023, 06:46:51 PM
Last winter witnessing people running reds in a snowstorm because they missed their green due to getting stuck in the snow and not even paying attention to cross traffic like they had a right to take their turn as if I was supposed to yield to them. NO!
What are they supposed to do? I had one storm where I ran a red like that because if I didn't, I would have never moved. After three cycles of having to stop right when the car finally started moving forward (in addition to their being a lot of snow, I was on an incline, and on the leg of the light with the shortest phase), I eventually said "f*** it" and just kept going even after the change to red. At least there wasn't much, if any, traffic in the area.
As for why I was out in those conditions in the first place? Driving home from Rochester and the weather around Albany was much worse than was forecast, as a major storm moving across the country unexpectedly merged with a nor'easter. Took me seven hours to make what is normally a three and a half hour drive, and another two to "drive" the last mile back to my apartment. The state roads were mostly passable, even if snow covered. The town roads were not. Even AAA was refusing to help people that night.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 18, 2023, 06:46:51 PM
Not only turning from a turn lane that doesn't exist, but feeling entitled enough to believe you can hold up traffic however long you need to to avoid missing your turn.
Wanting to turn left, but didn't get into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the through-lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until there's a gap in oncoming traffic!
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
:banghead:
... ... Another related one ... ... people who think they can do whatever they have to to avoid going one exit farther and just turning around, feeling entitled enough to believe you can cut across three lanes of traffic and miss the gore sign as narrowly as possible to avoid missing your exit.
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 09:50:38 AM
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
....
Or, at an intersection near my neighborhood (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vjKz7FBLNFbUA1Lx7), just hit the accelerator and go straight, people in the proper lane be damned. It's their problem to know you got in the wrong lane and that you're going to go straight and it's their problem to avoid you. (That "Left Lane Must Turn Left" sign is fairly new—there used to be no warning, other than pavement markings, on the left side of the road that the left lane becomes left-turn only—but some people still act surprised when they discover it's a turn lane and they just go straight anyway. A disproportionate number of the ones who do so aggressively seem to have Maryland plates.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 19, 2023, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 09:50:38 AM
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
....
Or, at an intersection near my neighborhood (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vjKz7FBLNFbUA1Lx7), just hit the accelerator and go straight, people in the proper lane be damned. It's their problem to know you got in the wrong lane and that you're going to go straight and it's their problem to avoid you. (That "Left Lane Must Turn Left" sign is fairly new—there used to be no warning, other than pavement markings, on the left side of the road that the left lane becomes left-turn only—but some people still act surprised when they discover it's a turn lane and they just go straight anyway. A disproportionate number of the ones who do so aggressively seem to have Maryland plates.)
Which would be much less annoying, because it wouldn't be holding anyone up.
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 10:42:27 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 19, 2023, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 09:50:38 AM
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
....
Or, at an intersection near my neighborhood (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vjKz7FBLNFbUA1Lx7), just hit the accelerator and go straight, people in the proper lane be damned. It's their problem to know you got in the wrong lane and that you're going to go straight and it's their problem to avoid you. (That "Left Lane Must Turn Left" sign is fairly new—there used to be no warning, other than pavement markings, on the left side of the road that the left lane becomes left-turn only—but some people still act surprised when they discover it's a turn lane and they just go straight anyway. A disproportionate number of the ones who do so aggressively seem to have Maryland plates.)
Which would be much less annoying, because it wouldn't be holding anyone up.
More dangerous, though, because it results in brake-slamming and near-misses.
Lights at intersections where they aren't really needed (such as a T-intersection with the cross traffic heading away from the main road), while at the same time having no lights at intersections with actual cross-traffic. Stop signs just don't cut it sometimes. I think I started a topic on this.
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 09:50:38 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on October 18, 2023, 06:46:51 PM
Not only turning from a turn lane that doesn't exist, but feeling entitled enough to believe you can hold up traffic however long you need to to avoid missing your turn.
Wanting to turn left, but didn't get into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the through-lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until there's a gap in oncoming traffic!
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
:banghead:
... ... Another related one ... ... people who think they can do whatever they have to to avoid going one exit farther and just turning around, feeling entitled enough to believe you can cut across three lanes of traffic and miss the gore sign as narrowly as possible to avoid missing your exit.
Wanting to turn left, but getting into the right turn lane here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1270839,-77.553817,3a,28.6y,191.03h,91.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seYWcIa0WuQ8CYW2y1QiwTA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), so they hold up the intersection until the green ball turns on (which it won't, since it's actuated and will only turn on the arrow unless someone is in the left turn lane). This actually happened. After three light cycles and Dad honking the horn a few times, the standoff was only resolved after Dad physically got out of the car to tell the person that the light won't do what he wants and that he'll have to turn right. We then caught the same driver trying to do the same thing at the left straight lane here (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.126528,-77.5642537,3a,73.8y,240.83h,77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1svsbffsbc1QxGAreNbJ39rQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dvsbffsbc1QxGAreNbJ39rQ%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D98.54441%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). :ded:
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 19, 2023, 10:24:48 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 09:50:38 AM
Wanting to go straight, but mistakenly got into the left turn lane? Just sit there in the left turn lane, holding up all the traffic behind you, until through traffic clears and you can slide over into the through-lane.
....
Or, at an intersection near my neighborhood (https://maps.app.goo.gl/vjKz7FBLNFbUA1Lx7), just hit the accelerator and go straight, people in the proper lane be damned. It's their problem to know you got in the wrong lane and that you're going to go straight and it's their problem to avoid you. (That "Left Lane Must Turn Left" sign is fairly new—there used to be no warning, other than pavement markings, on the left side of the road that the left lane becomes left-turn only—but some people still act surprised when they discover it's a turn lane and they just go straight anyway. A disproportionate number of the ones who do so aggressively seem to have Maryland plates.)
I had a case of the reverse recently. Driver got in the straight lane but wanted to turn left, so at the last second they barge in without warning once already in the intersection. I had to slam on my brakes to not hit them.
Municipalities/counties that decide to be cheap and save a few cents by having the signs on a post overlap so they can save a bolt or two. It honestly just looks ugly.
Will be brief here.
I see this multiple times every day. Someone cutting across two or more lanes of traffic to go to a right hand exit, cutting in front of cars in all lanes and (especially) in front of those who are in the right lane approaching that same exit. I am often in that right lane group.
A much older gentleman I knew 35 years ago in Warminster PA, he most likely has died by now --- at that time, Warminster had protected left hand turns that had the following light sequence in its cycle: (1) red light only (most of the cycle); (2) red light AND green left arrow; (3) yellow arrow only; (4) repeat (1)-(3).
Now you could make left turns when either the green arrow and the yellow arrow were lit, but this gentleman would only proceed when the arrow was yellow (which was a small percentage of the total time when "arrows" were on). When we asked him, his reasoning was that you couldn't proceed with a solid red light even if there was a green arrow with it.
He wasn't the only one I saw doing that. If you were behind someone like that, you were lucky if 2 cars could make the left turn.
^^ He didn't understand Pennsylvania phasing?
Quote from: Big John on October 19, 2023, 02:55:54 PM
^^ He didn't understand Pennsylvania phasing?
He was oblivious. I actually felt sorry for the guy, he was an easy target for teasing. But he was also rather argumentative, so my attempts to be somewhat nice were not well received (although he was probably wary, the teasers were a couple years older than me).
Improperly signed option lanes. Or option lanes that are hidden.
Or when a two-lane road opens up to three lanes via an option lane, and the option lane favors the direction that nobody uses. That forces all traffic into one lane forcing a backup.
Passing lanes here in Kansas.
Signage says "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". Which is good. But striping at the beginning of the passing lane does not encourage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuRZzKiHwvCctXxbA) keeping right, and striping at the end of the passing lane puts the onus of merging (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4WqsZBza3Ec9foAx5) on traffic that actually obeyed the sign.
Passing lanes in Michigan like this one
https://maps.app.goo.gl/urLodwCApCgWhwfh7
That end right at the top of the hill, before the trucks and other slow-moving traffic get a chance to speed up.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:40:02 AM
Passing lanes here in Kansas.
Signage says "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". Which is good. But striping at the beginning of the passing lane does not encourage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuRZzKiHwvCctXxbA) keeping right, and striping at the end of the passing lane puts the onus of merging (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4WqsZBza3Ec9foAx5) on traffic that actually obeyed the sign.
If the striping was reversed, I wonder about potential safety issues with a lane starting and ending from the middle of a two-way roadway. I don't see it as a big issue myself, but have a hunch that it might be a factor from a DOT perspective.
Another potentially related one, because I have also seen it in passing zones on two-lane roads: when drivers slow down while passing, but speed up while not passing, so that all drivers behind them have to engage in the yo-yo of repeatedly slowing down to pass other traffic while not being able to get past them on the open stretches. I see this as an attempt to control other traffic on the road and figure that anyone that does this must be a total control freak.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:40:02 AM
Passing lanes here in Kansas.
Signage says "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". Which is good. But striping at the beginning of the passing lane does not encourage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuRZzKiHwvCctXxbA) keeping right, and striping at the end of the passing lane puts the onus of merging (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4WqsZBza3Ec9foAx5) on traffic that actually obeyed the sign.
At least Wisconsin does it right: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9677565,-89.2036331,184a,35y,338.58h,44.98t/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu
Just had one about 20 minutes ago.
Slip ramp from I-270 "local lines" to I-270 "main line" just south of I-370.
I'm on slip ramp, look in rear view mirror, and some guy behind me is driving maybe 70-75 and gaining on me fast. I have to speed up big time.
Suffice it to say when he got to the "main line" he proceeded to do several unsafe lane changes.
How do I wind up being in front of people like that?
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:02:27 AM
....
How do I wind up being in front of people like that?
Because you're driving in Maryland.
Quote from: webny99 on October 20, 2023, 09:57:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:40:02 AM
Passing lanes here in Kansas.
Signage says "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". Which is good. But striping at the beginning of the passing lane does not encourage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuRZzKiHwvCctXxbA) keeping right, and striping at the end of the passing lane puts the onus of merging (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4WqsZBza3Ec9foAx5) on traffic that actually obeyed the sign.
If the striping was reversed, I wonder about potential safety issues with a lane starting and ending from the middle of a two-way roadway. I don't see it as a big issue myself, but have a hunch that it might be a factor from a DOT perspective.
It's been known to happen.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6SJ8Bafom3fX7xAs5 (Note that this has since been removed, because the dual-lane portion has been extended, and the right lane now becomes a right-turn-only further downstream.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 20, 2023, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:02:27 AM
....
How do I wind up being in front of people like that?
Because you're driving in Maryland.
It's interesting you say that.
No offense intended -- but most of the idiotic driving I see here are people with Virginia plates (but I also understand what I see is a small sample size). I did not see the plate today's driver had, was too concerned about my safety.
I'm just here for the Maryland-Virginia rivalry. :popcorn:
What was the logic behind MD enforcing work zone speed limits 24/7 as opposed to just when workers are present?
I don't like pedestrian signals that go to the full red hand long before the traffic signal switches.
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2023, 01:30:44 PM
I don't like pedestrian signals that go to the full red hand long before the traffic signal switches.
First, they go full orange, then it is likely an actuated signal which the cycle length is variable so it is set to make sure the pedestrian phase ends before the light turns yellow.
Quote from: Rothman on October 20, 2023, 01:30:44 PM
I don't like pedestrian signals that go to the full red hand long before the traffic signal switches.
What I
especially don't like is when a city has a mix of similar intersections where the ped signals do and don't go full red/orange before the traffic signal switches.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 20, 2023, 01:30:03 PM
What was the logic behind MD enforcing work zone speed limits 24/7 as opposed to just when workers are present?
To collect the doubled fine revenue.
Haven't some states been caught doing this in the past, just setting up work zones for months without any actual work, just so doubled traffic fines can be collected?
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:40:02 AM
Passing lanes here in Kansas.
Signage says "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS". Which is good. But striping at the beginning of the passing lane does not encourage (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VuRZzKiHwvCctXxbA) keeping right, and striping at the end of the passing lane puts the onus of merging (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4WqsZBza3Ec9foAx5) on traffic that actually obeyed the sign.
Alabama does it the same way as well, though I don't mind it too much.
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 20, 2023, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:02:27 AM
....
How do I wind up being in front of people like that?
Because you're driving in Maryland.
It's interesting you say that.
No offense intended -- but most of the idiotic driving I see here are people with Virginia plates (but I also understand what I see is a small sample size). I did not see the plate today's driver had, was too concerned about my safety.
I don't necessarily disagree with that in terms of "pure idiotic driving," but the situation you describe smacks of naked aggression, and I think exceptionally aggressive driving is a particular hallmark of Maryland (PG County being the worst, but I see a lot of it on I-270 as well).
The easiest way to avoid aggressive drivers in Maryland is usually to stay in the right lane because everyone else is trying to practice for the British motorways by keeping left except to pass!
Quote from: Quillz on October 20, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 20, 2023, 01:30:03 PM
What was the logic behind MD enforcing work zone speed limits 24/7 as opposed to just when workers are present?
To collect the doubled fine revenue.
Haven't some states been caught doing this in the past, just setting up work zones for months without any actual work, just so doubled traffic fines can be collected?
You mean there are states that have work zone speed limits that
aren't 24/7?
People turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 20, 2023, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:17:10 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 20, 2023, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 20, 2023, 11:02:27 AM
....
How do I wind up being in front of people like that?
Because you're driving in Maryland.
It's interesting you say that.
No offense intended -- but most of the idiotic driving I see here are people with Virginia plates (but I also understand what I see is a small sample size). I did not see the plate today's driver had, was too concerned about my safety.
I don't necessarily disagree with that in terms of "pure idiotic driving," but the situation you describe smacks of naked aggression, and I think exceptionally aggressive driving is a particular hallmark of Maryland (PG County being the worst, but I see a lot of it on I-270 as well).
The easiest way to avoid aggressive drivers in Maryland is usually to stay in the right lane because everyone else is trying to practice for the British motorways by keeping left except to pass!
I suspect you may know the slip ramp I am talking about (I was going southbound, if that wasn't clear). Like many slip ramps it is a single lane. I was not in a position to easily get out of his way, with my own speed, the jersey barriers, and traffic to my right. The guy this morning seemed to be in a nasty mood, from what I saw.
I have learned that sometimes the best thing to do there, is to stay to the right in the "local lanes" and maybe (or maybe not) get on the "main line" farther down. One of the slip ramps farther south, between Falls Road and Montrose Road, is a nice one in the sense that you don't have to merge if you don't want to -- the slip ramp just becomes the right lane of the "main line" there. I don't know if people realize that, they always move left as if they need to merge (although that's probably habit, to move to the faster lanes).
Quote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PM
People turning left into the wrong lane.
Assuming you're talking about a single left-turn lane onto a multi-lane road... You do realize that not every state's vehicle code requires left-turning traffic to take the nearside lane, right?
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: Quillz on October 20, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 20, 2023, 01:30:03 PM
What was the logic behind MD enforcing work zone speed limits 24/7 as opposed to just when workers are present?
To collect the doubled fine revenue.
Haven't some states been caught doing this in the past, just setting up work zones for months without any actual work, just so doubled traffic fines can be collected?
You mean there are states that have work zone speed limits that aren't 24/7?
As far as I'm aware, unless they have a variable speed limit posted, work zone speed limits are, indeed, 24/7. However, the doubled fines are only when workers are present.
Trucks that refuse to use climbing lanes, no matter how slow they're going. Especially common in Maryland, for some reason.
Quote from: vdeane on October 20, 2023, 08:17:47 PM
Trucks that refuse to use climbing lanes, no matter how slow they're going. Especially common in Maryland, for some reason.
Is it common at a specific location? I can't imagine there are many climbing lanes in Maryland except maybe on I-68 or I-70 in the western part of the state.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 04:04:53 PM
You do realize that not every state's vehicle code requires left-turning traffic to take the nearside lane, right?
Colorado's does, which is where I do most of my driving:
Quote from: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes
The left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as such vehicle on the roadway being entered.
And where in the pet peeve guidebook does it require that said peeve is illegal?
Quote from: webny99 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 20, 2023, 08:17:47 PM
Trucks that refuse to use climbing lanes, no matter how slow they're going. Especially common in Maryland, for some reason.
Is it common at a specific location?
I wouldn't say that this is isolated to Maryland sadly.
Quote from: webny99 on October 21, 2023, 12:14:50 AM
I can't imagine there are many climbing lanes in Maryland except maybe on I-68 or I-70 in the western part of the state.
That is pretty accurate, though there is certainly a need for them on some parts of I-83 near Parkton and Hereford and I-270 north of Hyattstown.
Quote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PM
People turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
Is Colorado a state that requires you to turn left into the leftmost lane? MN had a court case that ruled you do not have to do that here.
Wisconsin law also requires a left into the leftmost lane.
Tesla programs their cars to do that. Which makes Michigan Lefts very interesting. I saw a video of someone driving on Big Beaver (or maybe it was M-59) and the car turned into the leftmost lane, and then had to cross 3 lanes to make the right turn.
Quote from: jlam on October 21, 2023, 12:26:12 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 04:04:53 PM
You do realize that not every state's vehicle code requires left-turning traffic to take the nearside lane, right?
Colorado's does, which is where I do most of my driving:
Quote from: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes
The left turn shall be made to the left of the center of the intersection so as to leave the intersection or other location in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the same direction as such vehicle on the roadway being entered.
And that matches the Uniform Vehicle Code, which means a lot of state probably have very similar—if not exactly the same—wording.
One very big and notable counterexample is Texas:
Quote from: Texas Transportation Code
§ 545.101. Turning at Intersection
after entering the intersection, turn left, leaving the intersection so as to arrive in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle on the roadway being entered.
Weirdly, though, Texas
does require left turns from a one-way street onto another one-way street to be done "as closely as practicable to the left-hand curb or edge". You'd think it would matter less in that situation, not more, wouldn't you?
Quote from: jlam on October 21, 2023, 12:26:12 AM
And where in the pet peeve guidebook does it require that said peeve is illegal?
It probably doesn't say that. I've never read the guidebook.
When I got my license 50+ years ago in Massachusetts, the law, or at least the booklet they give you to study for the license test, was very explicit about matching up multiple turn lanes with multiple target lanes. If there were two left turn lanes, the leftmost had to turn into the leftmost lane, and the second leftmost lane had to turn into the second leftmost lane. Even with only one turn lane, if you needed to be in something other than the closest lane, that would involve a distinct lane change after the turn. Yet it always seemed honored more in the breach than the observance. Just as one can chew gum and walk, one can turn left and move over into an adjacent lane at the same time, especially with a modern car that bristles with mirrors and vehicle detection cameras.
When I got my California license much more recently, I don't recall seeing anything that specific in the California manual.
Quote from: pderocco on October 24, 2023, 07:33:30 PM
When I got my license 50+ years ago in Massachusetts, the law, or at least the booklet they give you to study for the license test, was very explicit about matching up multiple turn lanes with multiple target lanes. If there were two left turn lanes, the leftmost had to turn into the leftmost lane, and the second leftmost lane had to turn into the second leftmost lane. Even with only one turn lane, if you needed to be in something other than the closest lane, that would involve a distinct lane change after the turn. Yet it always seemed honored more in the breach than the observance. Just as one can chew gum and walk, one can turn left and move over into an adjacent lane at the same time, especially with a modern car that bristles with mirrors and vehicle detection cameras.
When I got my California license much more recently, I don't recall seeing anything that specific in the California manual.
This is my first time looking at Massachusetts' traffic laws, but I'm not seeing anything offhand that addresses the issue at all. In fact, the whole of Chapter 89 seems awfully sparse compared to most states' traffic laws.
California does not require a left-turning vehicle to enter the leftmost lane:
Quote from: California Vehicle Code
Division 11 — Rules of the Road
Chapter 6 — Turning and Stopping and Turning Signals
22100
Except as provided in Section 22100.5 or 22101, the driver of any vehicle intending to turn upon a highway shall do so as follows:
(b) Left Turns — The approach for a left turn shall be made as close as practicable to the left-hand edge of the extreme left-hand lane or portion of the roadway lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of the vehicle and, when turning at an intersection, the left turn shall not be made before entering the intersection. After entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in that direction upon the roadway being entered, except that upon a highway having three marked lanes for traffic moving in one direction that terminates at an intersecting highway accommodating traffic in both directions, the driver of a vehicle in the middle lane may turn left into any lane lawfully available to traffic moving in that direction upon the roadway being entered.
What pisses me off is when people turn right on red when oncoming traffic has a protected left arrow. Even if the destination road has enough lanes to accommodate both of you, in a state that requires both directions to turn into the nearest lane, it's really rude to turn in front of someone with a green arrow - especially if the person turning left needs to go into a driveway on the right relatively quickly.
Quote from: US 89 on October 25, 2023, 01:03:03 AM
What pisses me off is when people turn right on red when oncoming traffic has a protected left arrow. Even if the destination road has enough lanes to accommodate both of you, in a state that requires both directions to turn into the nearest lane, it's really rude to turn in front of someone with a green arrow - especially if the person turning left needs to go into a driveway on the right relatively quickly.
And see, I got used to that at an intersection where opposing left and right arrows are green at the same time: I-290 @ Harlem, Forest Park, IL.
WB view, all arrows green (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fqVoYUG4YBFrZSoY9)
EB view, all arrows green (https://maps.app.goo.gl/ussrBfaSCmG167F16)
Opposing traffic both turning into the same two lanes, each obeying its green arrow (https://maps.app.goo.gl/VZ91k7i7pBvq6xiPA)
I don't do what you describe every time, but I do sometimes—especially if the road I'm turning onto has
three lanes in that direction, such that there's a buffer lane between our paths.
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 04:00:11 PM
Quote from: Quillz on October 20, 2023, 03:11:40 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on October 20, 2023, 01:30:03 PM
What was the logic behind MD enforcing work zone speed limits 24/7 as opposed to just when workers are present?
To collect the doubled fine revenue.
Haven't some states been caught doing this in the past, just setting up work zones for months without any actual work, just so doubled traffic fines can be collected?
You mean there are states that have work zone speed limits that aren't 24/7?
Yes. West Virginia for one. They place flashing beacons on top of their work zone speed limit signs and the signs say:
Work Zone
-----------
Speed
Limit
NN
------------
When Flashing
Kentucky enforces work zone limits 24/7, but they have fold-up "Double Fine Zone" signs that they can retract when workers are not present.
I've also seen some "Work Zone Speed Limit NN When Workers are Present" signs in other states.
Quote from: US 89 on October 25, 2023, 01:03:03 AM
What pisses me off is when people turn right on red when oncoming traffic has a protected left arrow. Even if the destination road has enough lanes to accommodate both of you, in a state that requires both directions to turn into the nearest lane, it's really rude to turn in front of someone with a green arrow - especially if the person turning left needs to go into a driveway on the right relatively quickly.
What about the reverse: double-turning left and right at the same time on a regular green phase when right turning traffic has the right of way? At some locations, this is a necessary evil or left turners could sit for an unlimited number of cycles.
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2023, 09:22:26 AM
I don't do what you describe every time, but I do sometimes—especially if the road I'm turning onto has three lanes in that direction, such that there's a buffer lane between our paths.
But unless there are markings in the intersection, it's unclear who will choose which lane. You could end up competing for the center lane, or even the right lane.
Quote from: webny99 on October 26, 2023, 02:57:59 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 25, 2023, 09:22:26 AM
I don't do what you describe every time, but I do sometimes—especially if the road I'm turning onto has three lanes in that direction, such that there's a buffer lane between our paths.
But unless there are markings in the intersection, it's unclear who will choose which lane. You could end up competing for the center lane, or even the right lane.
If each person takes the nearest lane, then
nobody should be competing for the center lane.
Generally, I've found that drivers are pretty keen to avoid opposing turning traffic, as long as they think the other driver is even hinting at turning at the same time.
Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2023, 03:06:18 PM
If each person takes the nearest lane, then nobody should be competing for the center lane.
Both drivers realizing this is exactly how they end up competing for it. :D
Aholes who tailgate when one is actively passing with no way to move out of the way -- then take their sweet time moving on once you move out of their way.
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Quote from: VTGoose on November 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Obviously, this is a terrible thing to do intentionally, but in my experience, when this occurs it isn't usually intentional. Or if it is intentional, it's to prevent people from passing on the right, which I understand, but also think it's something people tend to get too worked up about.
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on November 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Obviously, this is a terrible thing to do intentionally, but in my experience, when this occurs it isn't usually intentional. Or if it is intentional, it's to prevent people from passing on the right, which I understand, but also think it's something people tend to get too worked up about.
Nah. If I read the complaint correctly, people hanging out in my blind spot in the left lane while I'm stuck behind a slow car in the right lane -- that is indeed angering. I've resorted to putting on my blinker and acting like I don't see them to get them out of there.
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on November 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Obviously, this is a terrible thing to do intentionally, but in my experience, when this occurs it isn't usually intentional. Or if it is intentional, it's to prevent people from passing on the right, which I understand, but also think it's something people tend to get too worked up about.
Nah. If I read the compliant correctly, people hanging out in my blind spot in the left lane while I'm stuck behind a slow car in the right lane -- that is indeed angering. I've resorted to putting on my blinker and acting like I don't see them to get them out of there.
I agree it's angering, certainly it is if they have open road in front of them, but you don't see that too often. Usually it's just due to a pre-existing stack of slow traffic in the left lane, or occasionally to "keep people from cutting in" which is a more nuanced conversation (in that I don't agree with it, but can see both sides).
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 09:59:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on November 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Obviously, this is a terrible thing to do intentionally, but in my experience, when this occurs it isn't usually intentional. Or if it is intentional, it's to prevent people from passing on the right, which I understand, but also think it's something people tend to get too worked up about.
Nah. If I read the complaint correctly, people hanging out in my blind spot in the left lane while I'm stuck behind a slow car in the right lane -- that is indeed angering. I've resorted to putting on my blinker and acting like I don't see them to get them out of there.
I agree it's angering, certainly it is if they have open road in front of them, but you don't see that too often. Usually it's just due to a pre-existing stack of slow traffic in the left lane, or occasionally to "keep people from cutting in" which is a more nuanced conversation (in that I don't agree with it, but can see both sides).
I get it if there's a line of cars on the left -- that's fine and just makes me impatient for them to finally get by me. But someone just poking along in my blind spot, keeping me from going the speed I want to go at? A circle of Hell awaits their arrival.
I don't particularly care for people hanging in my blind spot for mile after mile, so if that happens, I often reposition myself, typically by dropping my speed and waiting for the logjam up ahead to clear.
Cops running nighttime speed enforcement who turn off all of their vehicle lights to use the dark as cover to prevent you seeing them until it's too late. Even as a non-habitual speeder it's incredibly jarring when a car pops up out of the darkness that you weren't expecting.
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:23:38 PM
I've resorted to putting on my blinker and acting like I don't see them to get them out of there.
I'm of the opinion that, if a driver is OK with not using his headlights at dusk or during rain, then he must also be OK with my not seeing him and moving into his lane.
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 10:07:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 09:59:25 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 05, 2023, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 05, 2023, 03:47:16 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on November 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM
Related are jerks who roar up in the left lane so there isn't enough time or space to move left to pass a slower vehicle -- then sit in your blind spot or next to you instead of continuing at their closing speed to complete their pass, blocking you in behind the slower vehicle.
Obviously, this is a terrible thing to do intentionally, but in my experience, when this occurs it isn't usually intentional. Or if it is intentional, it's to prevent people from passing on the right, which I understand, but also think it's something people tend to get too worked up about.
Nah. If I read the complaint correctly, people hanging out in my blind spot in the left lane while I'm stuck behind a slow car in the right lane -- that is indeed angering. I've resorted to putting on my blinker and acting like I don't see them to get them out of there.
I agree it's angering, certainly it is if they have open road in front of them, but you don't see that too often. Usually it's just due to a pre-existing stack of slow traffic in the left lane, or occasionally to "keep people from cutting in" which is a more nuanced conversation (in that I don't agree with it, but can see both sides).
I get it if there's a line of cars on the left -- that's fine and just makes me impatient for them to finally get by me. But someone just poking along in my blind spot, keeping me from going the speed I want to go at? A circle of Hell awaits their arrival.
This is what I'm peeved about -- the oblivious driver who doesn't pay attention to the others on the road with them. They roll up, then ride in the blind spot or just off your front fender when there is ample room ahead of them to move on down the road.
Related to that are the people who micro-pass, taking more time than necessary to get around the slower vehicle, then speed up as soon as they move right.
Or a slow-moving vehicle who decides to speed up when you try to pass it.
Quote from: Big John on November 06, 2023, 11:10:06 PM
Or a slow-moving vehicle who decides to speed up when you try to pass it.
Fortunately, on two-lane roads, that's illegal. But one time, when I was driving a box truck, I had a driver speed up while I was passing him. The truck was an Isuzu cab-over turbo-diesel, and the fastest I ever got it up to was on a long downhill with a stiff tailwind and the accelerator all the way to the floor—77 mph, if I recall correctly. So there was basically nothing I could do but just fall back behind the other driver, because putting the pedal to the metal wasn't doing any good.
Quote from: VTGoose on November 06, 2023, 10:13:26 PM
Related to that are the people who micro-pass, taking more time than necessary to get around the slower vehicle, then speed up as soon as they move right.
Well, it's much, much worse when they
don't move right. At least if they're on the right, you can still pass them. To speed up however much is needed to ensure no one gets past and then slow down to pass other traffic is a level of control freak I can't even comprehend.
Ramp meters that are red by default. When traffic is light, a lone car approaches the red light, and has to come nearly to a stop before the light turns green, even though there is no traffic to meter. They should be green by default, and should turn red as a car breezes through it. Once traffic gets busy, the light will behave as it currently does.
Quote from: pderocco on November 30, 2023, 10:19:48 PM
Ramp meters that are red by default. When traffic is light, a lone car approaches the red light, and has to come nearly to a stop before the light turns green, even though there is no traffic to meter. They should be green by default, and should turn red as a car breezes through it. Once traffic gets busy, the light will behave as it currently does.
In the Twin Cities the ramp meters just continuously cycle whether anyone is there or not.
Quote from: pderocco on November 30, 2023, 10:19:48 PM
Ramp meters that are red by default. When traffic is light, a lone car approaches the red light, and has to come nearly to a stop before the light turns green, even though there is no traffic to meter. They should be green by default, and should turn red as a car breezes through it. Once traffic gets busy, the light will behave as it currently does.
Fixed it for you.
For me, when someone uses their turn signal *only* as their turning.
For example: I am at a red light, and the car on the opposite side of the intersection does not have their signal on, but once the light turns green, they suddenly turn on their turn signal.
^^ or worse, someone cuts you off while moving into your lane, then turn on their signal after they make their move.
Quote from: Big John on December 02, 2023, 03:12:11 PM
^^ or worse, someone cuts you off while moving into your lane, then turn on their signal after they make their move.
I've done the second part a time or two, mostly just so other drivers don't think I'm one of those people who refuses to use my blinker.
Having spent the weekend in the Ft. Worth/Dallas area, span wire signals. They feel very "temporary" and I find them really hard to see. They feel like they are only in place until a proper mast arm installation, but I guess that rarely happens?
Quote from: Quillz on December 03, 2023, 07:31:29 PM
Having spent the weekend in the Ft. Worth/Dallas area, span wire signals. They feel very "temporary" and I find them really hard to see. They feel like they are only in place until a proper mast arm installation, but I guess that rarely happens?
I'm thinking that permanent span wires are mainly used on signals in areas that commonly see tropical cyclones, they would be most resistant to damage in such cases.
Indiana also uses span wires as 'S.O.P'.
Mike
Mike
Quote from: PColumbus73 on December 02, 2023, 03:01:04 PM
For me, when someone uses their turn signal *only* as their turning.
Too many people ignore this:
1) signal turn into turn lane
2) pull into turn lane
3) brake
Not vice versa.
Quote from: Quillz on December 03, 2023, 07:31:29 PM
Having spent the weekend in the Ft. Worth/Dallas area, span wire signals. They feel very "temporary" and I find them really hard to see. They feel like they are only in place until a proper mast arm installation, but I guess that rarely happens?
Permanent span wire installations have been very common in Northern Virginia for as long as I can remember, although newer installations tend to use mast arms instead.
What I find annoying about the span wire installations is that VDOT is apparently unwilling to hang a street sign from the span wire (which certainly can be done, as I remember it being common in Raleigh in the 1990s when I was in law school). VDOT will mount a nice big street sign on a mast arm, but if an intersection uses span wire, there will be a dinky little blade-style street sign mounted either on one of the poles that support the span wire or on a separate small pole at one corner of the intersection.
Motorists using their turn signal when exiting a freeway (not necessary when you're not moving into a previously-existing lane) and then not turning it off. If I had a nickel for every idiot turning left onto the crossroad with his/her right turn flasher still going...
Drivers who don't turn on their lights when it's getting dark or foggy. Clueless on the concept that it's not just about whether you can see, it's also whether everyone else can see you. And I don't care how bright your running lights are; how can you NOT see that your headlights aren't on at night?
MDOT Metro Detroit's maddening practice of using VMSs exclusively for long-term construction messages instead of real-time updates of current conditions (such as travel times). Yes, I know I-696 is down to two lanes until I-275, and then down to one lane past that. I know the ramps from M-10 to ebd I-94 are closed. They've been that way since February. How about some travel times so I know if traffic is backed up more than usual and maybe I want to think about using another route?
Quote from: wanderer2575 on December 04, 2023, 02:09:42 PM
Motorists using their turn signal when exiting a freeway (not necessary when you're not moving into a previously-existing lane)
Is this the law, or your own incorrect personal opinion? :-D
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
They can't keep a constant speed, and they keep creeping past me, then falling back, sometimes influenced subconsciously by the tension they feel when they get next to another car at 70mph. Many seem to keep their foot in a particular position as they begin to climb a hill, and don't notice that they've slowed down, or race down the other side. Is it even possible to buy a car nowadays that doesn't have cruise control?
Quote from: Quillz on December 03, 2023, 07:31:29 PM
Having spent the weekend in the Ft. Worth/Dallas area, span wire signals. They feel very "temporary" and I find them really hard to see. They feel like they are only in place until a proper mast arm installation, but I guess that rarely happens?
Seattle has tons of wire signals instead of mast arms, especially in downtown and other dense neighborhoods. I think they're fine and actually help avoid cluttering the view from streets; we already have trolleybus wire, so more wire is less jarring than a mast arm.
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
They can't keep a constant speed, and they keep creeping past me, then falling back, sometimes influenced subconsciously by the tension they feel when they get next to another car at 70mph. Many seem to keep their foot in a particular position as they begin to climb a hill, and don't notice that they've slowed down, or race down the other side. Is it even possible to buy a car nowadays that doesn't have cruise control?
It's amazing to me how common this still is. Hit a slight upgrade on the Thruway and there's inevitably a slowdown, even with only a few vehicles on the road because of this.
"I know how to drive better than a car and I'm a good driver and I know how to drive and save gas and blah blah blah nonsense..."
Quote from: webny99 on September 29, 2023, 11:38:25 PM
This is one where I recognize that my personal bar for efficiency is a lot higher than most other drivers, and I'm OK with that.
In a way, this is sort of like the reverse of a pet peeve. Something I might do to help a road operate more efficiently, while realizing it's unrealistic to expect everyone on the road to do the same.
Anyways, I thought of another good example. When approaching a green light, and someone across the intersection is waiting to turn left, if there is a good sized gap behind me but I'm not certain they would be able to complete their turn, I will speed up to get past them sooner, increase the gap size, and increase the chance that they can complete their turn.
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2024, 06:51:50 AM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
They can't keep a constant speed, and they keep creeping past me, then falling back, sometimes influenced subconsciously by the tension they feel when they get next to another car at 70mph. Many seem to keep their foot in a particular position as they begin to climb a hill, and don't notice that they've slowed down, or race down the other side. Is it even possible to buy a car nowadays that doesn't have cruise control?
It's amazing to me how common this still is. Hit a slight upgrade on the Thruway and there's inevitably a slowdown, even with only a few vehicles on the road because of this.
"I know how to drive better than a car and I'm a good driver and I know how to drive and save gas and blah blah blah nonsense..."
Yep, and the other thing is that cruise control in newer cars is "smart", using radar to automatically slow down as it reaches the car in front of you. The upshot of this is that one slower car is more apt to cause a chain reaction slowdown than ever before.....because too many people put their cruise control on and then somehow fail to notice that their speed has dropped from 75 to 63.
Two big peeves that come to mind (and there are many): not signaling and.......left lane camping! Unless you're passing, GTFO of the left lane!!! Wisconsin is horrible with this. For one thing, drivers seem poorly trained up here to begin with. But they also have this smug "do goody" attitude as in "gee, the speed limit is 65 and I'm going to do 64 in the left lane so we all obey." Self righteous asshollery that is absolutely ignorant of what the lanes are for.
This is why I asked for heat seeking missiles for Christmas. Maybe next year......
Quote from: Rothman on January 02, 2024, 06:51:50 AM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
They can't keep a constant speed, and they keep creeping past me, then falling back, sometimes influenced subconsciously by the tension they feel when they get next to another car at 70mph. Many seem to keep their foot in a particular position as they begin to climb a hill, and don't notice that they've slowed down, or race down the other side. Is it even possible to buy a car nowadays that doesn't have cruise control?
It's amazing to me how common this still is. Hit a slight upgrade on the Thruway and there's inevitably a slowdown, even with only a few vehicles on the road because of this.
"I know how to drive better than a car and I'm a good driver and I know how to drive and save gas and blah blah blah nonsense..."
Even with cruise control, most cars will slow down a bit going uphill (or speed up slightly going downhill). But the difference should only be about 3 mph before the cruise kicks in more power and maybe 5 mph by the time the power catches up. So from 75 drops to 70 instead of 75 dropping to 63.
Quote from: fhmiii on January 02, 2024, 05:25:24 PMEven with cruise control, most cars will slow down a bit going uphill (or speed up slightly going downhill). But the difference should only be about 3 mph before the cruise kicks in more power and maybe 5 mph by the time the power catches up. So from 75 drops to 70 instead of 75 dropping to 63.
It really depends on the control logic and the type of actuation. Older cruise-control systems that relied on vacuum actuation didn't really have a prayer of holding speed on slopes, especially at high altitude, because vacuum is at a minimum when the engine is laboring uphill. At about 9,000 feet or higher (roughly I-70 over Vail Pass), some of them would just quit completely and not accept further control input (resume speed, set a new speed, etc.) until reset at the master switch.
Somewhat newer systems with electrical actuation typically can hold the set speed to within about 5 MPH up arbitrarily long grades of about 5%. My 1994 Saturn SL2 has such a system, and I set it to about 65 MPH (the speed limit) while on I-70 westbound, climbing the east flank of Lookout Mountain just west of Denver. I camped in the left lane because no-one was catching up to me.
Newer systems, particularly with electronically actuated throttles, often have hill-sensing logic and will respond before deviation from the set speed reaches 1 MPH. The 2005 Toyota Camry I occasionally use for roadtrips has a variation that will also attempt to hold speed going downhill. When I took it over the Fred Hartman Bridge in Houston with the cruise control set to 60 (again, the speed limit), it held that speed as I passed everyone else on the uphill grade, ending up in the left lane. Then it did the same on the downhill, as everyone else passed me and I worked my way back to the right lane.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 02, 2024, 06:24:58 PM
Quote from: fhmiii on January 02, 2024, 05:25:24 PMEven with cruise control, most cars will slow down a bit going uphill (or speed up slightly going downhill). But the difference should only be about 3 mph before the cruise kicks in more power and maybe 5 mph by the time the power catches up. So from 75 drops to 70 instead of 75 dropping to 63.
It really depends on the control logic and the type of actuation. Older cruise-control systems that relied on vacuum actuation didn't really have a prayer of holding speed on slopes, especially at high altitude, because vacuum is at a minimum when the engine is laboring uphill. At about 9,000 feet or higher (roughly I-70 over Vail Pass), some of them would just quit completely and not accept further control input (resume speed, set a new speed, etc.) until reset at the master switch.
Somewhat newer systems with electrical actuation typically can hold the set speed to within about 5 MPH up arbitrarily long grades of about 5%. My 1994 Saturn SL2 has such a system, and I set it to about 65 MPH (the speed limit) while on I-70 westbound, climbing the east flank of Lookout Mountain just west of Denver. I camped in the left lane because no-one was catching up to me.
Newer systems, particularly with electronically actuated throttles, often have hill-sensing logic and will respond before deviation from the set speed reaches 1 MPH. The 2005 Toyota Camry I occasionally use for roadtrips has a variation that will also attempt to hold speed going downhill. When I took it over the Fred Hartman Bridge in Houston with the cruise control set to 60 (again, the speed limit), it held that speed as I passed everyone else on the uphill grade, ending up in the left lane. Then it did the same on the downhill, as everyone else passed me and I worked my way back to the right lane.
I have a 2007 Corolla and driving through Virginia and West Virginia I found it was easier not to use cruise control. The cruise control takes longer to change gears going uphill and I don't like the engine revving on the long inclines.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on January 02, 2024, 04:54:14 PM
Yep, and the other thing is that cruise control in newer cars is "smart", using radar to automatically slow down as it reaches the car in front of you. The upshot of this is that one slower car is more apt to cause a chain reaction slowdown than ever before.....because too many people put their cruise control on and then somehow fail to notice that their speed has dropped from 75 to 63.
Adaptive Cruise Control in our Honda Odyssey has made our frequent trips between Virginia and Florida much more bearable -- most of the time. It does a pretty good job of maintaining a steady speed, although there is a lag in getting back to the set speed when it drops off when behind a slower vehicle. For example, when in a line of cars passing a slower vehicle but below the set speed (micro passer at the head of the line) and the lane ahead clears, it sometimes takes a push on the accelerator to get out of the way of the tailgating asshole on my bumper because the cruise control is slow to respond. The other "drawback" isn't really a drawback most of the time but a safety feature -- the "adaptive" part sets the space between you and the car ahead at a relatively safe following distance. If more cars had ACC and drivers used it, tailgating could be reduced (it will never go away, there are too many "Damn! I'm Good!" jerks out there who believe the road is theirs and everyone is in their way).
Quote
Two big peeves that come to mind (and there are many): not signaling and.......left lane camping! Unless you're passing, GTFO of the left lane!!! Wisconsin is horrible with this. For one thing, drivers seem poorly trained up here to begin with. But they also have this smug "do goody" attitude as in "gee, the speed limit is 65 and I'm going to do 64 in the left lane so we all obey." Self righteous asshollery that is absolutely ignorant of what the lanes are for.
This is why I asked for heat seeking missiles for Christmas. Maybe next year......
Due to road conditions, especially on I-95 in South Carolina, left lane camping is the norm to avoid all the bad pavement in the right lane. Courteous drivers do pay attention to what's behind them and move right well ahead of faster approaching traffic.
Quote from: VTGoose on January 04, 2024, 12:52:39 PM
Due to road conditions, especially on I-95 in South Carolina, left lane camping is the norm to avoid all the bad pavement in the right lane. Courteous drivers do pay attention to what's behind them and move right well ahead of faster approaching traffic.
I've seen this, and done this, on Mexican highways whose right lane has been beaten up by too much/heavy truck traffic. This only works when traffic counts are low enough.
There needs to be more research as to whether pavement wears out faster in the slow lane **because** drivers are instructed to use the slow lane except to pass.
Because if it turns out to be true, then I would likely support allowing more even/balanced usage of the lanes so that the wear and tear is more balanced.
Quote from: ran4sh on January 04, 2024, 01:34:57 PM
There needs to be more research as to whether pavement wears out faster in the slow lane **because** drivers are instructed to use the slow lane except to pass.
Because if it turns out to be true, then I would likely support allowing more even/balanced usage of the lanes so that the wear and tear is more balanced.
I wouldn't. It's possible to repave a single lane and not the entire roadway. I'd rather have (a) more frequent repaving projects that restrict traffic to just the left lane, but that leave the other roadway wide open, than (b) less frequent repaving projects that restrict each direction of travel to one lane because one roadway has to be closed in its entirety.
But of course, the reality is that trucks do WAY more damage to highways than cars—and trucks will generally keep to the right lane no matter what.
It might technically be possible but I don't really like when repaving of individual lanes is done, versus the whole roadway.
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
To be fair, I don't quite know how to work mine.
Quote from: epzik8 on January 04, 2024, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
To be fair, I don't quite know how to work mine.
Wut. Takes two seconds to read the manual and learn.
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2024, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on January 04, 2024, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
To be fair, I don't quite know how to work mine.
Wut. Takes two seconds to read the manual and learn.
Wut. He would only do so if he actually wants to use cruise control to begin with.
I have a '06, thus no smart cruise control, I may rear end someone if I use the regular cruise control in traffic.
I use regular cruise control all the time, including in relatively heavy traffic--it's a matter of covering the cancel button or (with really old systems) the brake pedal. I've never actually driven a car with adaptive cruise, and other forum members' descriptions of such systems in operation have made me wonder how much of an advance they really are.
A couple for me.
More of a Texas thing, but I hate how close some exit and entrance ramps are to the intersection. It sucks having to jump across 3-4 lanes of traffic to turn right or get on the ramp (I'm looking at you Beltway 8).
Also, I refuse to call 59 "I-69". I'll call it 59 or even 59/69 but never 69. I haven't heard anyone irl even refer to it as "69" aside from one time when my dad's friend complained about how confusing the name change was.
Impatient drivers. The people who are tailgating you even when you go 10 over the speed limit, then swerve around you like you're doing them a disservice. Or they're weaving through traffic (even more annoying when they don't use their turn signals) It's always satisfying when you see that they're the first ones at the red light.
Speaking of turn signals, I know it's been mentioned before, but people who don't use their turn signals seriously annoy me. How lazy do you have to be that you can't be bothered to flick a stick?
People who blast their shitty music in their car or rev up their motors are especially annoying.
Quote from: Some one on January 05, 2024, 01:25:34 PM
People who blast their shitty music in their car
People who spend $4000 on their car's sound system, but who can't be bothered to spend a few cents on two more sheet metal screws to keep their license plate from rattling with the bass.
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2024, 11:11:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 04, 2024, 11:06:51 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on January 04, 2024, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
To be fair, I don't quite know how to work mine.
Wut. Takes two seconds to read the manual and learn.
Wut. He would only do so if he actually wants to use cruise control to begin with.
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Quote from: Big John on January 05, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
I have a '06, thus no smart cruise control, I may rear end someone if I use the regular cruise control in traffic.
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Quote from: Some one on January 05, 2024, 01:25:34 PM
Impatient drivers. The people who are tailgating you even when you go 10 over the speed limit, then swerve around you like you're doing them a disservice. Or they're weaving through traffic (even more annoying when they don't use their turn signals) It's always satisfying when you see that they're the first ones at the red light.
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
Quote from: Some one on January 05, 2024, 01:25:34 PM
Impatient drivers. The people who are tailgating you even when you go 10 over the speed limit, then swerve around you like you're doing them a disservice. Or they're weaving through traffic (even more annoying when they don't use their turn signals) It's always satisfying when you see that they're the first ones at the red light.
I would think in most cases, they would
prefer to be first in line at a red light rather than buried five or ten cars deep. At least then there is open road in front of them (speaking from experience a bit here, not with tailgating but with being the impatient one at times :sombrero:)
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
It does seem that the slowest drivers are somehow synchronized with lights turning yellow. It's annoying if they go through but almost more annoying if they don't because then it's bound to happen again. Not to mention the time wasted sitting at the light.
Quote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PM
People turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
Out Windsor / Severance / Lucerne way, a lot of that, up until relatively recently, was just intersections of some highway, and county-road-whatever.
I drive into Windsor periodically, and there's all sorts of places that were two lanes, until something got developed, and now it's a major intersection.
It almost could be confusion. Yesterday, on the Bustang, when we were exiting 25 NB to 34 WB, there's a triple-left turn there, and I watched people go all over the place.
Sad, because if everyone followed the rules, a lot more vehicles could turn at the same time.
And someone needs to go remove all the "Centerra" signs. That word, just grates on me. "Centerra Parkway"? We all know you're really CR 5.
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
They can't keep a constant speed, and they keep creeping past me, then falling back, sometimes influenced subconsciously by the tension they feel when they get next to another car at 70mph. Many seem to keep their foot in a particular position as they begin to climb a hill, and don't notice that they've slowed down, or race down the other side. Is it even possible to buy a car nowadays that doesn't have cruise control?
Yes. Some cheap cars have cruise control only via options, not standard.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 06, 2024, 05:50:53 AM
It almost could be confusion. Yesterday, on the Bustang, when we were exiting 25 NB to 34 WB, there's a triple-left turn there, and I watched people go all over the place.
Related to this topic, a common peeve arises: frantic lane-changing before intersections. Many people ignore the road markings and traffic patterns (around me, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5229517,-104.9290739,3a,76.5y,88.37h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL-Scn4o_Mp3ad7hdKrPf0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4798804,-104.9092333,3a,35.3y,78.96h,91.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5uJKktAyo7H45wKCGoLG-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) are problematic spots), so a lot of merging and exiting is occurring at once, causing collisions. That's why diverging diamonds only work in theory. People don't pay attention to what they are supposed to do and make quick, rash decisions.
In many places, quick lane changing is impossible to avoid. Many shopping areas have an entrance/exit onto a main road. People must turn onto said road and quickly lane change into a turn lane, backing up traffic and inducing collisions. That's why I love what places like Fort Collins have implemented: frontage roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5478492,-105.0766608,3a,75y,272.83h,88.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D251.9506%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Frontage roads aren't common along surface streets, but in commercial zones, they are crucial. They remove many entrances onto the main road, directing traffic onto side roads that intersect the main road via traffic signals. It has a simple layout and a lower necessity for quick lane changes. This is the way to do it.
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel a smug feeling of vindication any time someone drives like a maniac to pass me and then I end up right behind them at the next light.
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 06, 2024, 05:50:53 AM
It almost could be confusion. Yesterday, on the Bustang, when we were exiting 25 NB to 34 WB, there's a triple-left turn there, and I watched people go all over the place.
Related to this topic, a common peeve arises: frantic lane-changing before intersections. Many people ignore the road markings and traffic patterns (around me, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5229517,-104.9290739,3a,76.5y,88.37h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL-Scn4o_Mp3ad7hdKrPf0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4798804,-104.9092333,3a,35.3y,78.96h,91.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5uJKktAyo7H45wKCGoLG-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) are problematic spots), so a lot of merging and exiting is occurring at once, causing collisions. That's why diverging diamonds only work in theory. People don't pay attention to what they are supposed to do and make quick, rash decisions.
Your first example here suffers from bad striping; it's not immediately obvious what is supposed to be a lane and what isn't once the gore widens out. Hatching out the area that's not supposed to be part of the traveled way would probably help to calm the traffic considerably since it would make it more obvious what it is you're even supposed to do there.
Regarding DDIs, I haven't heard of any data that indicates that they don't work in practice. On the contrary, all of the data I've seen discussed shows the contrary—DDIs work so well that they sometimes break other nearby intersections, since the DDI is basically aiming a firehose of traffic at them. I haven't heard of any issues with their safety record, which I would expect would be highly scrutinized because of the apparent risk of wrong-way traffic.
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
That's why diverging diamonds only work in theory.
You're kidding, right?
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
In many places, quick lane changing is impossible to avoid. Many shopping areas have an entrance/exit onto a main road. People must turn onto said road and quickly lane change into a turn lane, backing up traffic and inducing collisions. That's why I love what places like Fort Collins have implemented: frontage roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5478492,-105.0766608,3a,75y,272.83h,88.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D251.9506%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Frontage roads aren't common along surface streets, but in commercial zones, they are crucial. They remove many entrances onto the main road, directing traffic onto side roads that intersect the main road via traffic signals. It has a simple layout and a lower necessity for quick lane changes. This is the way to do it.
I agree that frontage roads are a good thing, but another important thing is also necessary to solve the quick-lane-change problem:
The states with laws that specify left turn must turn into the left lane, and/or right turn must turn into the right lane,
must change those laws so that a turn can be made into any legal lane, and must make associated safety changes such as, for traffic signals, not giving traffic a green left arrow at the same time as the oncoming direction has a green right arrow.With those laws eliminated, quick (short-distance) lane changes are minimized or eliminated, since, for example, a car can turn right into the left lane and will already be in the correct lane to make a left turn.
Quote from: ran4sh on January 06, 2024, 06:19:58 PM
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
In many places, quick lane changing is impossible to avoid. Many shopping areas have an entrance/exit onto a main road. People must turn onto said road and quickly lane change into a turn lane, backing up traffic and inducing collisions. That's why I love what places like Fort Collins have implemented: frontage roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5478492,-105.0766608,3a,75y,272.83h,88.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D251.9506%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Frontage roads aren't common along surface streets, but in commercial zones, they are crucial. They remove many entrances onto the main road, directing traffic onto side roads that intersect the main road via traffic signals. It has a simple layout and a lower necessity for quick lane changes. This is the way to do it.
The states with laws that specify left turn must turn into the left lane, and/or right turn must turn into the right lane, must change those laws so that a turn can be made into any legal lane, and must make associated safety changes such as, for traffic signals, not giving traffic a green left arrow at the same time as the oncoming direction has a green right arrow.
That rarely occurs because it's already a conflict.
The more common conflict is for left turning traffic to either have a flashing yellow left arrow, or turning on a green ball when no arrow is present. Right turning traffic either turns right on a green ball or has a turn lane with or without a yield sign.
In order to have no conflict, you need to make either the left turn movement, the right turn movement, or both with protected signals to allow turning traffic can take any lane. And that would present more problems as traffic would stack, and involve longer overall cycles.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 02, 2024, 06:24:58 PMIt really depends on the control logic and the type of actuation. Older cruise-control systems that relied on vacuum actuation didn't really have a prayer of holding speed on slopes, especially at high altitude, because vacuum is at a minimum when the engine is laboring uphill. At about 9,000 feet or higher (roughly I-70 over Vail Pass), some of them would just quit completely and not accept further control input (resume speed, set a new speed, etc.) until reset at the master switch.
Somewhat newer systems with electrical actuation typically can hold the set speed to within about 5 MPH up arbitrarily long grades of about 5%. My 1994 Saturn SL2 has such a system, and I set it to about 65 MPH (the speed limit) while on I-70 westbound, climbing the east flank of Lookout Mountain just west of Denver. I camped in the left lane because no-one was catching up to me.
Newer systems, particularly with electronically actuated throttles, often have hill-sensing logic and will respond before deviation from the set speed reaches 1 MPH. The 2005 Toyota Camry I occasionally use for roadtrips has a variation that will also attempt to hold speed going downhill. When I took it over the Fred Hartman Bridge in Houston with the cruise control set to 60 (again, the speed limit), it held that speed as I passed everyone else on the uphill grade, ending up in the left lane. Then it did the same on the downhill, as everyone else passed me and I worked my way back to the right lane.
We have a manual 2020 Corolla and an automatic 2022 Tacoma, both with adaptive cruise control. They're both able to maintain speed going uphill and downhill, for the most part. For the Corolla, at times, such as when going uphill on Blewett Pass in either direction, I do have to downshift from 6th gear to 5th gear to maintain speed. (Even if I weren't using cruise control, I'd still have to do it.) For both vehicles going downhill, as long as it's not a very steep hill, such as Manastash Ridge, which isn't that steep, they're able to hold back and maintain speed. It's almost like they have a jake brake or retarder, even though I know they don't.
Interestingly enough, the Tacoma does better going downhill than the Corolla, which is weird, because you'd think it'd be the other way around. The Tacoma, a truck, is heavier than the Corolla, a car. For example, descending Snoqualmie Pass westbound, Stevens Pass westbound, or Blewett Pass, the Corolla will start gaining speed and going a little faster than what I have my cruise control set to, which I don't really do anything about and just let it be, while the Tacoma will maintain speed. (For example, I usually have the cruise control in either vehicle set to 65 MPH going over Stevens Pass, and the Corolla, when descending the pass westbound, will reach up to about 71 or 72 MPH and then slow back down when the downhill becomes less steep and the cruise control is able to "regain control.") Even going down the steep grade on US Route 95 southbound toward Lewiston, Idaho, the Tacoma maintains its speed. I don't think I've driven that section with the Corolla yet, so I'll have to see how it acts there whenever I do.
Quote from: ran4sh on January 06, 2024, 06:19:58 PM
The states with laws that specify left turn must turn into the left lane, and/or right turn must turn into the right lane, must change those laws so that a turn can be made into any legal lane, and must make associated safety changes such as, for traffic signals, not giving traffic a green left arrow at the same time as the oncoming direction has a green right arrow.
This also depends on whether there are multiple lanes making turns. We have a two lane left hand turn near me and the only safe way to do it is to have left hand lane turn into left hand lane, and so on.
My new Forester has adaptive cruise control, and is very accurate about maintaining speed, either uphill or downhill. Uphill, it ups the ratio in the CVT for more power. Downhill, it ups the ratio for engine braking, and if that's not enough, hits the brakes (with brake lights). And of course, it slows down when approaching a slower vehicle in the same lane. It's a fabulous technology, one of the few in the history of automobiles that really changes the way you drive, the first being automatic transmissions, the second being the more primitive kind of cruise control, and the third being backup cameras.
Often, I find myself glad that there is someone else in front of me on a curvy road that requires varying speeds, because I only have to steer: the person in front determines both of our speeds. So I hope that anyone who has a new car with this feature learns how pleasurable it is to use it, instead of disregarding it the way most people seem to disregard the presence of the old-style cruise control.
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
In many places, quick lane changing is impossible to avoid. Many shopping areas have an entrance/exit onto a main road. People must turn onto said road and quickly lane change into a turn lane, backing up traffic and inducing collisions. That's why I love what places like Fort Collins have implemented: frontage roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5478492,-105.0766608,3a,75y,272.83h,88.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D251.9506%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Frontage roads aren't common along surface streets, but in commercial zones, they are crucial. They remove many entrances onto the main road, directing traffic onto side roads that intersect the main road via traffic signals. It has a simple layout and a lower necessity for quick lane changes. This is the way to do it.
Not really. Or rather, right idea, wrong execution. Getting between those frontage roads and the main roads (especially the one they follow, but also the cross streets) does NOT look like a fun experience. Honestly, with nothing like that around here, I couldn't even begin to fathom how that would be done (what does one do here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5486455,-105.0768258,3a,53y,349.7h,91.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdtjuSBB2uJT_lkQZKqIUUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu), for instance? You literally have a stop sign intersection in the middle of a traffic light intersection). What's really helpful is proper access management, where the parking lots are connected and the driveways can be consolidated, perhaps even avoiding the main road entirely.
Here's an example of a frontage road with proper signage/markings/etc
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mUpf7fZEipNtgUKz7
In particular, this one is ok because there is at least 1 car length between the frontage road and the highway, so that where there is a cross road, they are treated as separate intersections.
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 06, 2024, 07:19:34 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on January 06, 2024, 06:19:58 PM
The states with laws that specify left turn must turn into the left lane, and/or right turn must turn into the right lane, must change those laws so that a turn can be made into any legal lane, and must make associated safety changes such as, for traffic signals, not giving traffic a green left arrow at the same time as the oncoming direction has a green right arrow.
This also depends on whether there are multiple lanes making turns. We have a two lane left hand turn near me and the only safe way to do it is to have left hand lane turn into left hand lane, and so on.
Multi-lane turns are still compatible with the safety aspect of this. If the lanes match, then drivers have to use the matching lane. If instead, it's something like a 2-lane left turn onto 3- or 4-lanes departing the intersection, then the left lane must stay left, but the right lane must get the choice of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc lane. And for 3 lane left turns into 4 lanes, 1st lane goes to 1st lane, 2nd goes to 2nd, but 3rd must get the choice of 3rd or 4th. Etc.
Quote from: ran4sh on January 06, 2024, 10:59:52 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 06, 2024, 07:19:34 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on January 06, 2024, 06:19:58 PM
The states with laws that specify left turn must turn into the left lane, and/or right turn must turn into the right lane, must change those laws so that a turn can be made into any legal lane, and must make associated safety changes such as, for traffic signals, not giving traffic a green left arrow at the same time as the oncoming direction has a green right arrow.
This also depends on whether there are multiple lanes making turns. We have a two lane left hand turn near me and the only safe way to do it is to have left hand lane turn into left hand lane, and so on.
Multi-lane turns are still compatible with the safety aspect of this. If the lanes match, then drivers have to use the matching lane. If instead, it's something like a 2-lane left turn onto 3- or 4-lanes departing the intersection, then the left lane must stay left, but the right lane must get the choice of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc lane. And for 3 lane left turns into 4 lanes, 1st lane goes to 1st lane, 2nd goes to 2nd, but 3rd must get the choice of 3rd or 4th. Etc.
My case was 2 lane to 2 lane.
Quote from: pderocco on January 06, 2024, 09:19:59 PM
My new Forester has adaptive cruise control, and is very accurate about maintaining speed, either uphill or downhill. Uphill, it ups the ratio in the CVT for more power. Downhill, it ups the ratio for engine braking, and if that's not enough, hits the brakes (with brake lights). And of course, it slows down when approaching a slower vehicle in the same lane. It's a fabulous technology, one of the few in the history of automobiles that really changes the way you drive, the first being automatic transmissions, the second being the more primitive kind of cruise control, and the third being backup cameras.
Often, I find myself glad that there is someone else in front of me on a curvy road that requires varying speeds, because I only have to steer: the person in front determines both of our speeds. So I hope that anyone who has a new car with this feature learns how pleasurable it is to use it, instead of disregarding it the way most people seem to disregard the presence of the old-style cruise control.
Yup, just got a '24 Crosstrek about a month back and I finally got a chance to play with the adaptive cruise control. It's amazing, compared to what I had before. Drove 70 virtually the entire way from LA to Morro Bay, and indeed when people were in front of me, it would slowly tick down, then back up once I either moved or they moved. It also has lane centering assist which, as long as you keep your hands on the wheel, can almost work as pseudo-auto drive as it can even take minor curves without issue. Very impressed with what this can do.
Maybe it was just that the one car I drove with it was too aggressive (even on the lowest setting), but I found I would much rather just take over speed control myself at the times that the adaptive cruise would start adjusting the speed. By the time I would realize that it was engaging, I would get trapped behind a slow car because everyone was dogpiling the left lane to avoid both of us. With normal cruise, I notice that I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead of me and can normally make the lane change without any hassle.
Let's just say my car has neither lane assist nor a smart cruise control system. Its current cruise control, however, is surprisingly smooth for its age. It perfectly maintains speed going over the hills around me. I don't deem it useful enough to use regularly: I use it most when heading east on SH 14.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 06, 2024, 05:50:53 AM
It almost could be confusion. Yesterday, on the Bustang, when we were exiting 25 NB to 34 WB, there's a triple-left turn there, and I watched people go all over the place.
I almost got in an accident at this exact interchange today. Someone was exiting from I-25 northbound, and, planning to turn left on
CR 5 Fairgrounds Centerra Parkway, cut right in front of me. Granted, there is not a great way to do that movement without cutting across three lanes of traffic. That intersection might benefit from a full or partial diamond interchange at I-25 and Kendall Parkway.
Quote from: jlam on January 06, 2024, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 06, 2024, 05:50:53 AM
It almost could be confusion. Yesterday, on the Bustang, when we were exiting 25 NB to 34 WB, there's a triple-left turn there, and I watched people go all over the place.
Related to this topic, a common peeve arises: frantic lane-changing before intersections. Many people ignore the road markings and traffic patterns (around me, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5229517,-104.9290739,3a,76.5y,88.37h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sL-Scn4o_Mp3ad7hdKrPf0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) and here (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4798804,-104.9092333,3a,35.3y,78.96h,91.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5uJKktAyo7H45wKCGoLG-g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) are problematic spots), so a lot of merging and exiting is occurring at once, causing collisions. That's why diverging diamonds only work in theory. People don't pay attention to what they are supposed to do and make quick, rash decisions.
In many places, quick lane changing is impossible to avoid. Many shopping areas have an entrance/exit onto a main road. People must turn onto said road and quickly lane change into a turn lane, backing up traffic and inducing collisions. That's why I love what places like Fort Collins have implemented: frontage roads (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5478492,-105.0766608,3a,75y,272.83h,88.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dh1Ex1Q-GO5GkDkxm2Q2yDQ%26cb_client%3Dsearch.revgeo_and_fetch.gps%26w%3D96%26h%3D64%26yaw%3D251.9506%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu). Frontage roads aren't common along surface streets, but in commercial zones, they are crucial. They remove many entrances onto the main road, directing traffic onto side roads that intersect the main road via traffic signals. It has a simple layout and a lower necessity for quick lane changes. This is the way to do it.
Foco only does the frontage road thing in a couple of places - College around Drake, College around Saturn Drive / 392 / Trilby... and out Mulberry.
Swallow / College is an example of where this has gone horribly wrong, from my POV. On the west side of the street, it's really confusing, and there's always gonna be someone that sits in the frontage road intersection waiting on the light.
Back in the day, one could yeet over onto the frontage road on Mulberry, and not even lift your foot off the gas.
I don't know what to do about S College, other than I just stay off it unless I have to go somewhere on it. Frontage roads made sense on the highway, but not sure about in town. They almost have the right idea, with the lights on E Mulberrry, E of I-25.
Used to live in the trailer park who's entrance got moved because of this.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2024, 01:53:29 AM
Maybe it was just that the one car I drove with it was too aggressive (even on the lowest setting), but I found I would much rather just take over speed control myself at the times that the adaptive cruise would start adjusting the speed. By the time I would realize that it was engaging, I would get trapped behind a slow car because everyone was dogpiling the left lane to avoid both of us. With normal cruise, I notice that I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead of me and can normally make the lane change without any hassle.
^This. I've yet to have a positive experience with adaptive cruise control.
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Quote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PM
People turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
In some places, there is no "wrong lane", legally speaking. Texas state law, for example, only requires that a left-turning vehicle enter "a lane lawfully available to traffic". It's still a pet peeve of mine, but it's technically legal to turn left into the rightmost lane in such places.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Not
in traffic, when speeds are volatile and variable.
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 12:07:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2024, 12:05:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Not in traffic, when speeds are volatile and variable.
Pffft. Amateur.
Heh. When all lanes are clogged, take the shoulder. :D
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AMQuote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PMPeople turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
In some places, there is no "wrong lane", legally speaking. Texas state law, for example, only requires that a left-turning vehicle enter "a lane lawfully available to traffic". It's still a pet peeve of mine, but it's technically legal to turn left into the rightmost lane in such places.
AIUI, "turn into nearest lane" is the UVC default, but five states--a partial list of which is California, Texas, and Missouri--do not require it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2024, 01:53:29 AM
Maybe it was just that the one car I drove with it was too aggressive (even on the lowest setting), but I found I would much rather just take over speed control myself at the times that the adaptive cruise would start adjusting the speed. By the time I would realize that it was engaging, I would get trapped behind a slow car because everyone was dogpiling the left lane to avoid both of us. With normal cruise, I notice that I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead of me and can normally make the lane change without any hassle.
The Priuses NYSDOT uses for fleet cars all have adaptive cruise control and it's annoying for exactly this reason. The power meter
does start to move a couple seconds before the car noticeably slows down most of the time, but using that is dependent on the adjacent lane being clear when it does so I can move over. Once it slows down, it takes a long time to get back up to speed. And the default following distance is large enough to fit a truck in (not a pickup truck either, a full tractor trailer).
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 08, 2024, 12:38:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: jlam on October 20, 2023, 04:01:22 PMPeople turning left into the wrong lane. Not sure why since it happens so often around here, but people are so unpredictable with it.
In some places, there is no "wrong lane", legally speaking. Texas state law, for example, only requires that a left-turning vehicle enter "a lane lawfully available to traffic". It's still a pet peeve of mine, but it's technically legal to turn left into the rightmost lane in such places.
AIUI, "turn into nearest lane" is the UVC default, but five states--a partial list of which is California, Texas, and Missouri--do not require it.
At least the first part of that is correct. The UVC requires turning into "the extreme left lane lawfully available to traffic".
As for the list of states that don't use the UVC as a template, I don't know which or how many there are. I should also mention that even states that use the UVC as a template modify this or that section, so it's at least possible that there are UVC-guided states that allow left turns into the right lane.
Lo these many years ago, I was taught in driver's ed to turn into the "first legal lane" unless you had a reason not to do so. It was not explained what those reasons might encompass, but one example was if you were making a left turn and shortly thereafter would make a right turn. So you needed to be in the right lane, and could go there directly without taking up temporary residence in the left lane.
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2024, 12:05:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Not in traffic, when speeds are volatile and variable.
I assume you're referring to old-fashioned cruise control. The adaptive kind is most useful in stop-and-go traffic.
In very heavy traffic, old cruise control isn't very useful because it doesn't stay on for very long before you have to tap the brakes and cut it off. But that's only a fraction of freeway driving. If things are moving at full speed, and everyone is able to use their cruise control for at least half the time, I think traffic would flow more efficiently.
Quote from: GaryV on January 08, 2024, 06:43:21 PM
Lo these many years ago, I was taught in driver's ed to turn into the "first legal lane" unless you had a reason not to do so. It was not explained what those reasons might encompass, but one example was if you were making a left turn and shortly thereafter would make a right turn. So you needed to be in the right lane, and could go there directly without taking up temporary residence in the left lane.
I don't know if it's still the case, but Massachusetts had a law when I learned to drive that if you wanted to do that, that was two separate operations: you turned into the nearest lane, then did a separate lane change to get to the furthest lane. In practice, no cop would ever ticket you if you gracefully transitioned from one to the other, signalling first left, then right, without spending a second or two in the closest lane. Nor, if you went directly for the far lane in the middle of the night when no one else was around.
Quote from: pderocco on January 08, 2024, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2024, 12:05:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Not in traffic, when speeds are volatile and variable.
I assume you're referring to old-fashioned cruise control. The adaptive kind is most useful in stop-and-go traffic.
There isn't any cruising to control in stop-and-go traffic...
Quote from: vdeane on January 08, 2024, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2024, 01:53:29 AM
Maybe it was just that the one car I drove with it was too aggressive (even on the lowest setting), but I found I would much rather just take over speed control myself at the times that the adaptive cruise would start adjusting the speed. By the time I would realize that it was engaging, I would get trapped behind a slow car because everyone was dogpiling the left lane to avoid both of us. With normal cruise, I notice that I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead of me and can normally make the lane change without any hassle.
The Priuses NYSDOT uses for fleet cars all have adaptive cruise control and it's annoying for exactly this reason. The power meter does start to move a couple seconds before the car noticeably slows down most of the time, but using that is dependent on the adjacent lane being clear when it does so I can move over. Once it slows down, it takes a long time to get back up to speed. And the default following distance is large enough to fit a truck in (not a pickup truck either, a full tractor trailer).
Using adaptive cruise control does take a little bit of effort and attention to what's ahead and behind (as with any driving situation). Honda ACC has a display that shows when a vehicle is within range of the radar. When that pops up, or just based on watching the road, it is easy enough to move left to pass the slower vehicle before being trapped by approaching traffic. Honda also allows you to set the spacing between you and the vehicle in front, with increasing space for heavier traffic. The shortest following distance is a safety factor that does leave a bit of room ahead of you, but it is easy enough to accelerate to close the space when conditions warrant (such as the ahole who doesn't want to sit in the long line behind the micro-passer and roars up to cut in at the last minute).
I've never driven a vehicle with adaptive cruise control, and hope to never be forced to. Regular cruise control is great. Adaptive cruise sounds like a nightmare.
Quote from: Tom958 on September 09, 2015, 06:39:53 PM
Use of black-on-yellow plates for road names when they're comounted with warning signs,as though there's some danger associated with that particular road. White on green for that, OK?
Actually, I like when highway departments do that. The same goes for county road shields that have the yellow-on-blue road name signs underneath.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 09, 2024, 11:54:47 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on September 09, 2015, 06:39:53 PM
Use of black-on-yellow plates for road names when they're comounted with warning signs,as though there's some danger associated with that particular road. White on green for that, OK?
Actually, I like when highway departments do that. The same goes for county road shields that have the yellow-on-blue road name signs underneath.
It also seems standard for upcoming crossroad signage.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 09, 2024, 05:43:14 PM
I've never driven a vehicle with adaptive cruise control, and hope to never be forced to. Regular cruise control is great. Adaptive cruise sounds like a nightmare.
I never have either, but I'm wondering - can one 'override' it, like with a normal one? I.e. step on the gas to pass Slowy McSlowface, and then take your foot off and everything goes back to what it's doing?
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 10, 2024, 08:15:30 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 09, 2024, 05:43:14 PM
I've never driven a vehicle with adaptive cruise control, and hope to never be forced to. Regular cruise control is great. Adaptive cruise sounds like a nightmare.
I never have either, but I'm wondering - can one 'override' it, like with a normal one? I.e. step on the gas to pass Slowy McSlowface, and then take your foot off and everything goes back to what it's doing?
In my experience, having driven many many rental cars with adaptive cruise control, yes you can do exactly this. Changing into a lane that's clear does solve the problem if you can do that; but a left lane camper will thwart that idea. Canceling it out and going manual will also do the trick. The thing with adaptive cruise is that it's insidious in that it gently slows you down in a manner such that I think a lot of drivers don't notice. This can lead to the growth of a rat pack, usually started by one moron in the left lane.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 09, 2024, 11:54:47 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on September 09, 2015, 06:39:53 PM
Use of black-on-yellow plates for road names when they're comounted with warning signs,as though there's some danger associated with that particular road. White on green for that, OK?
Actually, I like when highway departments do that.
Assuming that it's an intersection warning sign, then yes, there
is some danger associated with that particular road. That's why there's a warning sign to begin with.
Quote from: Rothman on January 10, 2024, 06:58:05 AM
It also seems standard for upcoming crossroad signage.
Yes. In the current edition of the MUTCD, these are covered under "Supplemental Warning Plaques", specifically W16-8P and W16-8aP signs.
Also . . .
Quote from: MUTCD, 11th Edition
§ 2C.57 — Design of Supplemental Warning Plaques
Standard:
01 — A supplemental warning plaque used with a warning sign shall have the same legend, border, and background color as the warning sign with which it is displayed. A supplemental warning plaque used with a regulatory sign shall have a black legend and border on a yellow background.
§ 2C.65 — Advance Street Name Plaques (W16-8P and W16-8aP)
Option:
01 — An Advance Street Name (W16-8P or W16-8aP) plaque (see Figure 2C-16) may be used with any Intersection (W1-10 series, W2 series, W10-2, W10-3, or W10-4) or Advance Traffic Control (W3 series) sign to identify the name of the intersecting street.
Quote from: pderocco on January 08, 2024, 10:52:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 08, 2024, 12:05:25 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 08, 2024, 11:25:04 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 05, 2024, 07:04:39 PM
Why would one use cruise control in traffic?
Wut. Not wanting to do so is inefficient.
Not in traffic, when speeds are volatile and variable.
I assume you're referring to old-fashioned cruise control. The adaptive kind is most useful in stop-and-go traffic.
In very heavy traffic, old cruise control isn't very useful because it doesn't stay on for very long before you have to tap the brakes and cut it off. But that's only a fraction of freeway driving. If things are moving at full speed, and everyone is able to use their cruise control for at least half the time, I think traffic would flow more efficiently.
Yes, this is what I noticed. I used it yesterday going to work and it was stop-and-go. I had it set to 65 but most of the time it was moving me along 20-30 mph, and would do full braking and then speed up as necessary. I never thought to use it before but it ended up being nice because again, I could just keep my hands on the wheel and not really have to do much else. I also notice on my car the default length is maybe 1.5 car lengths, which is probably good because otherwise I'd like be too close to most cars.
Maybe some vehicles are different, but the adaptive cruise control in our vehicles cannot be enabled at speeds of 25 MPH or lower and will automatically turn off if slowed down that much.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on January 10, 2024, 09:36:41 AM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on January 10, 2024, 08:15:30 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 09, 2024, 05:43:14 PM
I've never driven a vehicle with adaptive cruise control, and hope to never be forced to. Regular cruise control is great. Adaptive cruise sounds like a nightmare.
I never have either, but I'm wondering - can one 'override' it, like with a normal one? I.e. step on the gas to pass Slowy McSlowface, and then take your foot off and everything goes back to what it's doing?
In my experience, having driven many many rental cars with adaptive cruise control, yes you can do exactly this. Changing into a lane that's clear does solve the problem if you can do that; but a left lane camper will thwart that idea. Canceling it out and going manual will also do the trick. The thing with adaptive cruise is that it's insidious in that it gently slows you down in a manner such that I think a lot of drivers don't notice. This can lead to the growth of a rat pack, usually started by one moron in the left lane.
This is one of the reasons why I hate adaptive cruise control. The car slows down and then you get stuck because everyone else starts passing you.
When I was driving in California recently, I noticed left lane blockers and cars lining up behind them. The right lane would open and they would stay in the left lane. I seemed to be one of the few that would pass them on the right. Wonder if that phenomenon was a result of adaptive cruise control -- people zoning out behind the wheel, which isn't good for anyone.
Quote from: Amaury on January 10, 2024, 06:06:29 PM
Maybe some vehicles are different, but the adaptive cruise control in our vehicles cannot be enabled at speeds of 25 MPH or lower and will automatically turn off if slowed down that much.
Yeah it depends on the make. Mine will go down to a complete stop and even turn off the engine, then start up again.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2024, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel a smug feeling of vindication any time someone drives like a maniac to pass me and then I end up right behind them at the next light.
I've been on both sides of this although probably more often in the spot of the speedster, in which case I'm not particularly bothered by it because traffic lights are more or less random, and all else being equal I would still rather be ahead of a slower driver than behind them. What does annoy me is when I'm stuck behind someone approaching a stale green light and they insist on missing it and making everyone behind them miss it too. I know not everyone on the road is a local, but on local roads the vast majority of drivers should have some situational awareness that you simply can
not just casually miss certain lights or you just wasted 2-3 minutes of everyone's time. I often have to remind myself that they're probably not
trying to be annoying, but are just completely clued out.
Quote from: Amaury on January 10, 2024, 06:06:29 PM
Maybe some vehicles are different, but the adaptive cruise control in our vehicles cannot be enabled at speeds of 25 MPH or lower and will automatically turn off if slowed down that much.
Mine can be set as low as 20. But even so, if I'm going slower than that because I'm behind slow traffic, it doesn't turn it off. So I just leave it set for the speed I wish I could go if everyone else disappeared.
When the left turn green arrow comes on, and the guy first in line isn't paying attention, and he makes you miss the arrow. And there's 2 or 3 cars between you, so you don't honk because you don't want to make it look like you think it's their fault.
Quote from: GaryV on January 12, 2024, 09:31:31 AM
When the left turn green arrow comes on, and the guy first in line isn't paying attention, and he makes you miss the arrow. And there's 2 or 3 cars between you, so you don't honk because you don't want to make it look like you think it's their fault.
Yeah, that is an awkward situation when the car you want to honk at isn't directly in front of you. I had that experience once with a car two in front of me that would not use the expanded shoulder to turn right on red. When I honked, the guy immediately in front of me turned around and made a hand motion to express that it was not his problem. I just nodded back and hoped he understood that I was not irritated with him.
^ Since you mentioned it, I'll note one of my pet peeves is someone honking at me because I'm not turning right on red. Well, maybe it's no-turn-on-red and that person doesn't see (or wants me to ignore) the sign, or I don't have a good view, or for whatever other reason I'm not comfortable doing it at that moment. Honking at me won't change that.
Another peeve: People who turn left out of a driveway or side street and then drive in the left-turn lane until a spot opens up for them to merge right. If you're going to pull that number, at least stop in the left-turn lane instead of being a rolling blockade.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 12, 2024, 01:15:41 PM
Another peeve: People who turn left out of a driveway or side street and then drive in the left-turn lane until a spot opens up for them to merge right. If you're going to pull that number, at least stop in the left-turn lane instead of being a rolling blockade.
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 12, 2024, 01:15:41 PM
Another peeve: People who turn left out of a driveway or side street and then drive in the left-turn lane until a spot opens up for them to merge right. If you're going to pull that number, at least stop in the left-turn lane instead of being a rolling blockade.
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
You can frequently find people driving several hundred feet before getting into the travel lane. Or, someone turning left onto the main road gets pinched behind someone making a left off the main road (or making an oncoming left turn).
In my opinion, if someone can't make a clean left turn within a couple seconds of entering the main road, then it would be better to turn right and make a u-turn.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's
and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
Two of my peeves are:
- Signs getting replaced with inferior ones - we have some new ones that got taken out in wrecks, and the replacements are always smaller and sometimes missing information.
- People who only go a few mph faster to pass on three-lane rural highways - it may be allowed, but it sure is annoying when only a handful of people can pass in the entire 1-2 mile zone.
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
Two of my peeves are:
- Signs getting replaced with inferior ones - we have some new ones that got taken out in wrecks, and the replacements are always smaller and sometimes missing information.
- People who only go a few mph faster to pass on three-lane rural highways - it may be allowed, but it sure is annoying when only a handful of people can pass in the entire 1-2 mile zone.
Agree with #1. In my area there were two BGS knock-downs, one was a frequent knock-down victim, and the other was an overhead BGS that was struck by a truck. Both were replaced by smaller, flat LGS's
When I use a TWLTL to stage a left turn, I typically just stop in it (with right blinker on) if I need to wait for an opening in traffic. Using a TWLTL to get up to speed invites a collision with an oncoming vehicle seeking to make a left turn.
Much has been said immediately upthread about horn-related pet peeves. For me, as a deaf person, the horn is a pet peeve, full stop. It is not accessible to deaf drivers, and I believe its capacity to warn even hearing drivers is greatly overstated. The use of the horn is actually my principal area of disagreement with the Smith system, which advocates sounding it as needed to make other drivers aware of one's presence. My own view is that any use of the horn is in and of itself evidence of failure to drive defensively and, in practice, much more often an expression of frustration rather than a calculated action to overcome limited visibility.
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
Two of my peeves are:
- Signs getting replaced with inferior ones - we have some new ones that got taken out in wrecks, and the replacements are always smaller and sometimes missing information.
- People who only go a few mph faster to pass on three-lane rural highways - it may be allowed, but it sure is annoying when only a handful of people can pass in the entire 1-2 mile zone.
WisDOT has an official photo of each sign assembly on state-maintained highways that replacement signage must match. But the official photos predate the I-41 conversion so when any I-41 sign gets knocked down, it gets replaced by a US 41 sign.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 12, 2024, 04:19:44 PM
In my opinion, if someone can't make a clean left turn within a couple seconds of entering the main road, then it would be better to turn right and make a u-turn.
The whole point of staging your left turn in the TWLTL is that you might not be able to complete the turn quickly and easily. Therefore, it should be
expected to have to wait more than a couple of seconds before merging in.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 12, 2024, 04:19:44 PM
You can frequently find people driving several hundred feet before getting into the travel lane.
They need to learn how to merge, then. Put blinker on, gradually move into the other lane, only abort maneuver if other driver refuses to accommodate.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 12, 2024, 04:19:44 PM
Or, someone turning left onto the main road gets pinched behind someone making a left off the main road
In which case, why does it bother you? No sweat off your back. They're the one who got pinched.
Quote from: PColumbus73 on January 12, 2024, 04:19:44 PM
(or making an oncoming left turn)
Does occasionally happen. Usually pretty easy to figure out between the two drivers, in my experience. But this is the biggest reason not to spend too much
driving distance in the TWLTL.
When I used to live in Pacific Palisades, CA, I had one very specific pet peeve at one very specific intersection:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDhQkLYCaxBn3ky67 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/wDhQkLYCaxBn3ky67)
Almost every day, I would be coming down this road, and getting in the right turn lane. About 10% of the time, I'd end up behind someone who sees the sign prohibiting right turns on red, but failing to notice the "TO PCH" under it, which limits the restriction to people turning right onto Pacific Coast Highway. Sometimes several cars would line up, and we'd all be honking, to no avail.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 12, 2024, 01:15:41 PM
^ Since you mentioned it, I'll note one of my pet peeves is someone honking at me because I'm not turning right on red. Well, maybe it's no-turn-on-red and that person doesn't see (or wants me to ignore) the sign, or I don't have a good view, or for whatever other reason I'm not comfortable doing it at that moment. Honking at me won't change that.
I accept that. I am guilty of this on occasion, but I would always make sure there's no RTOR sign and that I have a clear view of the intersection first. If you have some other reason for not turning that's not readily apparent, I am not sure what it would be but if it's going to last long enough to disrupt other traffic then use of hazards would be preferable. More often than not when this happens, someone just wasn't paying attention so the honk is more about bringing awareness that those behind them are waiting.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2024, 04:50:25 PM
Much has been said immediately upthread about horn-related pet peeves. For me, as a deaf person, the horn is a pet peeve, full stop. It is not accessible to deaf drivers, and I believe its capacity to warn even hearing drivers is greatly overstated. The use of the horn is actually my principal area of disagreement with the Smith system, which advocates sounding it as needed to make other drivers aware of one's presence. My own view is that any use of the horn is in and of itself evidence of failure to drive defensively and, in practice, much more often an expression of frustration rather than a calculated action to overcome limited visibility.
In other countries - I've heard about it in the Caribbean Islands in particular - the horn actually
is an integral part of defensive driving and is used frequently for things like passing on unstriped roadways. I respect that horns are not accessible to deaf drivers but still don't necessarily agree that using it is evidence of failure to drive defensively, especially when it's used proactively rather than reactively - but also recognize that's not normally how it's used in the US.
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
Same. I was taught in driver's ed to turn into the TWLT lane, STOP, and then merge in once there's a gap (basically two-staging the left turn to separate the directions where getting a gap in both directions would be impractical). What I usually see instead is people using the TWLT lane as an acceleration lane, not caring whether there's a gap or not, forcing traffic in the main lanes to slow down to let them in, lest the person flying down the TWLT lane eventually cause a collision.
I also use that maneuver as a "use when needed" thing. It's not my default. If a road is questionable on whether I'll get a gap in both directions or not, I'll usually wait a few seconds to feel it out first. But usually I can tell pretty quick whether I can just turn or whether I have to two-stage it.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 12, 2024, 01:15:41 PM
^ Since you mentioned it, I'll note one of my pet peeves is someone honking at me because I'm not turning right on red. Well, maybe it's no-turn-on-red and that person doesn't see (or wants me to ignore) the sign, or I don't have a good view, or for whatever other reason I'm not comfortable doing it at that moment. Honking at me won't change that.
Another peeve: People who turn left out of a driveway or side street and then drive in the left-turn lane until a spot opens up for them to merge right. If you're going to pull that number, at least stop in the left-turn lane instead of being a rolling blockade.
Agreed. If I can't gauge what traffic is doing, I'm not going to make a right on red. Someone making a right on red shouldn't be slowing down traffic on the road they're turning onto, so if I can't tell if someone is going to turn or something, I won't. Likewise, if there's a red light camera (or even if I'm in a jurisdiction that's known to use them and I'm not sure about a given intersection), I'm not going to do a right on red unless I can do it textbook perfect - ie, no going past the stop line to see past cars in the other lane, no rolling stops, etc. That's assuming I decide to risk a right on red with a camera at all.
People who ignore red lights, stop signs, and other road safety infrastructure. It puts everyone at serious risk. Driving is a privilege, not a right.
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Generalizing, getting honked at for refusing to break the law period. I seem to recall someone upthread mentioning honking at someone for not using the shoulder to make a right on red, despite driving on the shoulder like that being illegal.
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Quote from: vdeane on January 13, 2024, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Generalizing, getting honked at for refusing to break the law period. I seem to recall someone upthread mentioning honking at someone for not using the shoulder to make a right on red, despite driving on the shoulder like that being illegal.
Yeah, that was me. Technically going 56 mph on a 55 mph freeway is illegal too, doesn't mean no one does it or even that it's necessarily always the wrong thing to do in context with other laws. And yeah, I will admit that there are some locations where, if someone refuses to use the shoulder to turn right on red when it was
literally expanded by the DOT (or county, town, or whatever)
for that purpose, then I will just go around them if it's safe to do so. For all I know, there's a 50/50 chance it was their hazards on instead of their blinker anyways. :D
Quote from: webny99 on January 13, 2024, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 13, 2024, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Generalizing, getting honked at for refusing to break the law period. I seem to recall someone upthread mentioning honking at someone for not using the shoulder to make a right on red, despite driving on the shoulder like that being illegal.
Yeah, that was me. Technically going 56 mph on a 55 mph freeway is illegal too, doesn't mean no one does it or even that it's necessarily always the wrong thing to do in context with other laws. And yeah, I will admit that there are some locations where, if someone refuses to use the shoulder to turn right on red when it was literally expanded by the DOT (or county, town, or whatever) for that purpose, then I will just go around them if it's safe to do so. For all I know, there's a 50/50 chance it was their hazards on instead of their blinker anyways. :D
You
assume that the shoulder is wide for that purpose. Given that shoulder travel is illegal in NY, more likely it's to help facilitate the travel of emergency vehicles when necessary, or something else entirely.
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Quote from: epzik8 on January 04, 2024, 09:10:37 PM
Quote from: pderocco on January 02, 2024, 02:35:06 AM
People who don't use cruise control on freeways.
To be fair, I don't quite know how to work mine.
Same goes for my work van. 2021 Dodge Promaster. The cruise control is idiotic. If i set it to 72, the speed at any given moment can vary between 68 and 78. I find myself constantly adjusting the CC to accommodate other traffic. I also yell at the CC to speed up or slow down if its not doing what it should be doing.
Quote from: vdeane on January 13, 2024, 08:05:53 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 13, 2024, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 13, 2024, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Generalizing, getting honked at for refusing to break the law period. I seem to recall someone upthread mentioning honking at someone for not using the shoulder to make a right on red, despite driving on the shoulder like that being illegal.
Yeah, that was me. Technically going 56 mph on a 55 mph freeway is illegal too, doesn't mean no one does it or even that it's necessarily always the wrong thing to do in context with other laws. And yeah, I will admit that there are some locations where, if someone refuses to use the shoulder to turn right on red when it was literally expanded by the DOT (or county, town, or whatever) for that purpose, then I will just go around them if it's safe to do so. For all I know, there's a 50/50 chance it was their hazards on instead of their blinker anyways. :D
You assume that the shoulder is wide for that purpose. Given that shoulder travel is illegal in NY, more likely it's to help facilitate the travel of emergency vehicles when necessary, or something else entirely.
I hadn't thought about emergency vehicles, but I still feel it's an acceptable assumption. There's just no way it wasn't considered and understood that the shoulder would be used for right turns when it was built/reconstructed. All of this fits with my opinion (and it is just that, unfortunately) that single solid lines should be considered guidelines only while double solid lines should be enforceable.
Also worth noting that just because there's someone ahead of you doesn't mean you have to use the shoulder to turn right on red. In many cases, it can be done 100% legally within the existing lane.
Here is one such example (https://maps.app.goo.gl/EYbo6dEdQHw71rvb6); though there are many, this just happened to be the first one I found with a car in good position to illustrate.
Quote from: webny99 on January 13, 2024, 09:35:55 PM
There's just no way it wasn't considered and understood that the shoulder would be used for right turns when it was built/reconstructed.
Why would an engineer intentionally increase the materials usage, and thus cost, of a project, to facilitate a movement that isn't even legal under the laws of the state it's being constructed in?
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Fine with me. They are tailgaters already going well above the speed limit (I go 5-10 above it unless the flow of traffic warrants otherwise). If I'm annoying them, great. Let them tailgate someone else.
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Fine with me. They are tailgaters already going well above the speed limit (I go 5-10 above it unless the flow of traffic warrants otherwise). If I'm annoying them, great. Let them tailgate someone else.
Just because someone passes you doesn't mean that they're annoyed with you, especially on a multi-lane highway.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 13, 2024, 11:11:51 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 13, 2024, 09:35:55 PM
There's just no way it wasn't considered and understood that the shoulder would be used for right turns when it was built/reconstructed.
Why would an engineer intentionally increase the materials usage, and thus cost, of a project, to facilitate a movement that isn't even legal under the laws of the state it's being constructed in?
Without getting into specific examples I can't think of any reason why the cost would be more than trivially higher, depending on if the space was already there for a wide paved shoulder or if the entire road was widened during reconstruction.
vdeane has a point about emergency vehicles, but I suspect it is sometimes done as a cheaper alternative to a full right turn lane.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2024, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel a smug feeling of vindication any time someone drives like a maniac to pass me and then I end up right behind them at the next light.
Even better is when you know the timing of the lights and adjust your speed so the light turns green as you reach it, and you thus fly past the maniac who passed you and was stopped at that light. Bonus points if the lane ends and you're now in front of that person on a single-lane.
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
1. "Pulling that number" is one of the explicitly stated purposes of a TWLTL in some states.
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
Two of my peeves are:
- Signs getting replaced with inferior ones - we have some new ones that got taken out in wrecks, and the replacements are always smaller and sometimes missing information.
- People who only go a few mph faster to pass on three-lane rural highways - it may be allowed, but it sure is annoying when only a handful of people can pass in the entire 1-2 mile zone.
2a: On three-lanes, on the downhill side, it's legit to pass in some places. By god GO!, or let me go.
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2024, 07:58:13 AM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Fine with me. They are tailgaters already going well above the speed limit (I go 5-10 above it unless the flow of traffic warrants otherwise). If I'm annoying them, great. Let them tailgate someone else.
Just because someone passes you doesn't mean that they're annoyed with you, especially on a multi-lane highway.
In the context I'm referring to, they are. I can tell who is tailgating and who is not.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 14, 2024, 03:01:04 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 06, 2024, 04:38:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 10:15:07 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 05, 2024, 09:54:30 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 05, 2024, 09:48:47 PM
Then there's the opposite: being stuck behind a slow driver, only for them to sail through a yellow while you get stuck at a red. It would be very satisfying to pass them and then sail through the green or yellow only for them to get stuck at the red, but that never seems to happen.
That doesn't bother me so much since then they are no longer a problem.
Unless you catch up to them again. Plus I can't help but imagine their smug feeling of vindication whenever it happens.
On the other hand, I can't help but feel a smug feeling of vindication any time someone drives like a maniac to pass me and then I end up right behind them at the next light.
Even better is when you know the timing of the lights and adjust your speed so the light turns green as you reach it, and you thus fly past the maniac who passed you and was stopped at that light. Bonus points if the lane ends and you're now in front of that person on a single-lane.
That's just mean, especially given that each driver's definition of "maniac" seems to be "everyone who wishes to go faster than me".
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2024, 08:16:19 PM
That's just mean, especially given that each driver's definition of "maniac" seems to be "everyone who wishes to go faster than me".
"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" ― George Carlin
Quote from: Quillz on January 14, 2024, 07:35:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2024, 07:58:13 AM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Fine with me. They are tailgaters already going well above the speed limit (I go 5-10 above it unless the flow of traffic warrants otherwise). If I'm annoying them, great. Let them tailgate someone else.
Just because someone passes you doesn't mean that they're annoyed with you, especially on a multi-lane highway.
In the context I'm referring to, they are. I can tell who is tailgating and who is not.
Even when you're in the middle lane of a three-lane carriageway...
Bad intersections that can easily be fixed yet take years.
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2024, 08:33:02 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 14, 2024, 07:35:01 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 14, 2024, 07:58:13 AM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 11:35:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2024, 08:32:24 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 04:19:11 PM
There are some intersections near my work where the signs were recently installed, so I can at least give people benefit of the doubt they may not see the signs. But there are plenty of intersections where it's just people being impatient.
I've been seeing the same thing since I've been using adaptive cruise control. Some people go around me because I'm accelerating too slow, but in reality they are just tailgaters who had to hit their brakes. Good riddance, if I'm pissing off tailgaters, good. Maybe it's the "new car honeymoon" phase, but I've been making a better effort in general to just be less stressed when driving. I now drive a little slower than I used to, and clearly people don't like that (I'll go five above the limit instead of ten). I drive in the rightmost or middle lane, and people still go around me (and this isn't a flow of traffic issue, I'm talking about rush hour traffic). That's what I've noticed, lots of people just want to ride on your tailgate and get upset when they suddenly have to brake hard.
Well, of course they're going around you. You're going slowly and they're going faster, so they pass you.
Fine with me. They are tailgaters already going well above the speed limit (I go 5-10 above it unless the flow of traffic warrants otherwise). If I'm annoying them, great. Let them tailgate someone else.
Just because someone passes you doesn't mean that they're annoyed with you, especially on a multi-lane highway.
In the context I'm referring to, they are. I can tell who is tailgating and who is not.
Even when you're in the middle lane of a three-lane carriageway...
I am describing a very specific context: I'm in the rightmost or middle lane. So people can always go around me. I'm talking very specifically about tailgaters, people who come up directly behind me. You've probably encountered them. I've seen recently this seems to be happening less since I'm in general driving a little slower. I'm accelereating a little bit slower than I normally would so this seems to annoy them enough they now go around me. This is good, I hate tailgaters and it's dangerous. Let them bother someone else.
I'm not talking about general scenarios where the flow of traffic is a good 10-15 mph what is posted. People go around me all the time and they're not tailgating. I'm talking about rush hour traffic scenarios, people still do it. Now they're doing it less. That's good.
Oh, and another pet peeve of mine: people who have stuck turn signals. People who will drive for miles without turning it off. Of course, the second they turn it off, then they make their turn.
Quote from: VPIGoose on January 09, 2024, 12:13:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 08, 2024, 12:47:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 08, 2024, 01:53:29 AM
Maybe it was just that the one car I drove with it was too aggressive (even on the lowest setting), but I found I would much rather just take over speed control myself at the times that the adaptive cruise would start adjusting the speed. By the time I would realize that it was engaging, I would get trapped behind a slow car because everyone was dogpiling the left lane to avoid both of us. With normal cruise, I notice that I'm getting closer and closer to the car ahead of me and can normally make the lane change without any hassle.
The Priuses NYSDOT uses for fleet cars all have adaptive cruise control and it's annoying for exactly this reason. The power meter does start to move a couple seconds before the car noticeably slows down most of the time, but using that is dependent on the adjacent lane being clear when it does so I can move over. Once it slows down, it takes a long time to get back up to speed. And the default following distance is large enough to fit a truck in (not a pickup truck either, a full tractor trailer).
Using adaptive cruise control does take a little bit of effort and attention to what's ahead and behind (as with any driving situation). Honda ACC has a display that shows when a vehicle is within range of the radar. When that pops up, or just based on watching the road, it is easy enough to move left to pass the slower vehicle before being trapped by approaching traffic. Honda also allows you to set the spacing between you and the vehicle in front, with increasing space for heavier traffic. The shortest following distance is a safety factor that does leave a bit of room ahead of you, but it is easy enough to accelerate to close the space when conditions warrant (such as the ahole who doesn't want to sit in the long line behind the micro-passer and roars up to cut in at the last minute).
I very much like the adaptive cruise control in my wife's Acura, and I use it in local driving to keep my speed down, especially in school zones. I agree with VPIGoose that one key is to understand how it works and to anticipate what it might do. For example, using adaptive cruise control when someone is tailgating you can be somewhat risky because of the possibility of your car slowing suddenly. Last week on our trip to Florida I was driving a Tesla Model 3 we rented from Hertz. The cruise control on that car is prone to braking very aggressively and suddenly, even for things to which my wife's car would not react—for example, the Tesla braked hard when someone coming the other way made a left turn across our side of the road up ahead even though we weren't really all that close. South Florida is plagued by a lot of extreme tailgaters, people who follow so closely you can't even see the reflection of their headlights at night. In that situation, adaptive cruise control can present a hazard that standard cruise control does not. But none of this makes it difficult to use or a hassle—it just means that, as with any other driving, someone with even a modicum of responsibility will learn how his car works and operate it accordingly.
(Regardless of adaptive cruise control versus traditional cruise control, one thing Acura has that I wish more automakers provided is a "cancel" button so you can de-activate the cruise control without stepping on the brake or the clutch. Tesla's system lets you cancel it by pushing up on the right-hand stalk, which doubles as the gearshift; I find that a little weird, though you get used to it very quickly.)
Quote from: Quillz on January 15, 2024, 04:36:33 AM
I am describing a very specific context: I'm in the rightmost or middle lane. So people can always go around me. I'm talking very specifically about tailgaters, people who come up directly behind me. You've probably encountered them. I've seen recently this seems to be happening less since I'm in general driving a little slower. I'm accelereating a little bit slower than I normally would so this seems to annoy them enough they now go around me. This is good, I hate tailgaters and it's dangerous. Let them bother someone else.
I'll have to admit, it is unnerving to be travelling slightly over the speed limit in the rightmost lane when someone comes flying up behind you at 30MPH over the speed limit and tailgates in the hopes that you will change to the middle lanes. It's becoming very difficult to merge onto wide freeway sections (3 or lanes wide) for the same reason. Worse, in many cases they appear to be using adaptive speed control set for over 100MPH.
Quote from: Big John on January 14, 2024, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2024, 08:16:19 PM
That's just mean, especially given that each driver's definition of "maniac" seems to be "everyone who wishes to go faster than me".
"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" ― George Carlin
This quote captures my feeling about many things I read in this thread. I'd say it is a reasonable assumption that most (but not all) other drivers have their attention on their own things to worry about --- rather than specifically annoying you.
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 15, 2024, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Big John on January 14, 2024, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2024, 08:16:19 PM
That's just mean, especially given that each driver's definition of "maniac" seems to be "everyone who wishes to go faster than me".
"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" ― George Carlin
This quote captures my feeling about many things I read in this thread. I'd say it is a reasonable assumption that most (but not all) other drivers have their attention on their own things to worry about --- rather than specifically annoying you.
It is an interesting juxtaposition. To me the highest priority aside from getting to my destination safely is the overall efficiency of the network, so I tend to promote any behavior that improves that and be bothered by any behavior that interferes with that. My mindset is, how do I best minimize my potential interference with others on the road? I actually
enjoy not being fastest one on the road and am always willing to do what I can, even in small details, to help the network operate more efficiently for others.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 15, 2024, 08:34:29 AMRegardless of adaptive cruise control versus traditional cruise control, one thing Acura has that I wish more automakers provided is a "cancel" button so you can de-activate the cruise control without stepping on the brake or the clutch.
Didn't that become more or less universal by the mid-2000's among cars equipped with traditional cruise control? The only car left in the family fleet without a cancel button (or equivalent--on Toyotas you just tug on the stalk) is my 1994 Saturn SL2.
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.
I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic. Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.
I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic. Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.
The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge. If you're waiting for a gap in traffic, there's nothing to merge into, and you'll be up to speed by the time any traffic at the far side of that gap catches up to you.
Quote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 02:33:33 PM
The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.
Says who?
In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law". No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into". If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:44:01 PMQuote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 02:33:33 PMThe thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.
Says who?
In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law". No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into". If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal. It is desirable to limit travel (and thus the opportunity for head-on collisions) in the TWLTL, and it takes more length and time to accelerate up to speed than to brake to a near-stop.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 03:05:20 PM
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal. It is desirable to limit travel (and thus the opportunity for head-on collisions) in the TWLTL
And I think it's advisable to limit merging into a travel lane at 2 mph (and thus the opportunity for rear-end collisions).
You do you.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 02:33:33 PM
The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.
Says who?
In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law". No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into". If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?
The people who ran the driver's ed course I took in the summer of 2008 (physically based at the high school and I think the instructors where a couple of the teachers, though it was actually a BOCES course rather than directly offered by the school). I don't recall fully what they said about decelerating into the lane, but they did emphasize limiting the distance you travel in the lane.
What's interesting is that even though more people where I live try to use the TWLT lane as an acceleration lane than to stop and wait for a gap, they don't use it as a deceleration lane. What's usually seen is people will slow down in the travel lane and then move into the TWLT lane when they actually need to either stop or make the turn.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 15, 2024, 09:36:21 AM
Quote from: Quillz on January 15, 2024, 04:36:33 AM
I am describing a very specific context: I'm in the rightmost or middle lane. So people can always go around me. I'm talking very specifically about tailgaters, people who come up directly behind me. You've probably encountered them. I've seen recently this seems to be happening less since I'm in general driving a little slower. I'm accelereating a little bit slower than I normally would so this seems to annoy them enough they now go around me. This is good, I hate tailgaters and it's dangerous. Let them bother someone else.
I'll have to admit, it is unnerving to be travelling slightly over the speed limit in the rightmost lane when someone comes flying up behind you at 30MPH over the speed limit and tailgates in the hopes that you will change to the middle lanes. It's becoming very difficult to merge onto wide freeway sections (3 or lanes wide) for the same reason. Worse, in many cases they appear to be using adaptive speed control set for over 100MPH.
I set my adaptive to five over the speed limit when in rush hour, otherwise I'll make it to match flow of traffic, usually at least 10-15 above what is posted. That's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm going the speed limit, or safely above it, and people just get on my ass hoping I move over, when I'm specifically in the rightmost lane for that reason. It's also dangerous because when I need to brake, well, so do they. If what I'm doing is making people move away from me so they annoy others, good.
Reminds me of a local guy around here. Drives a Ferrari and of course as a result thinks he owns the road. Speeds, honks, blows through stop signs. One day he smashed up his car right in front of the local middle school, and nearly killed his kid in the front seat. A month later, he had a new Ferrari and didn't learn a thing, he was speeding with his kid like nothing happened. Maybe his kid will need to get killed in an accident to learn to have better behavior.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 15, 2024, 08:34:29 AMRegardless of adaptive cruise control versus traditional cruise control, one thing Acura has that I wish more automakers provided is a "cancel" button so you can de-activate the cruise control without stepping on the brake or the clutch.
Didn't that become more or less universal by the mid-2000's among cars equipped with traditional cruise control? The only car left in the family fleet without a cancel button (or equivalent--on Toyotas you just tug on the stalk) is my 1994 Saturn SL2.
My 2015 Jeep Wrangler had a cancel button and traditional cruise control. I always forgot to use it, though.
Quote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 02:33:33 PM
The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:44:01 PM
Says who?
Quote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 03:32:54 PM
The people who ran the driver's ed course I took in the summer of 2008
Ah, I see. Well, that doesn't make them right.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 03:13:26 PMAnd I think it's advisable to limit merging into a travel lane at 2 mph (and thus the opportunity for rear-end collisions).
I don't think "merging into a travel lane at 2 MPH" is an accurate description. In terms of gap acceptance, it is more like making a right turn, and the risk of rear-end collisions should be no higher. Physics also says a rear-end collision is much more forgiving than a head-on collision involving two vehicles moving at speed in opposite directions.
More like making a right turn from a Yield-controlled slip lane than making a right turn from a Stop-controlled 90-degree intersection, I suppose.
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 03:05:20 PM
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.
^^
I agree with this concept.
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 15, 2024, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 03:05:20 PM
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.
^^
I agree with this concept.
And I get the concept. But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to". To me, that means "you aren't allowed to". I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.
At any rate, my wife is from Branson. Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there. If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going. On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL. My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 15, 2024, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 03:05:20 PM
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.
^^
I agree with this concept.
And I get the concept. But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to". To me, that means "you aren't allowed to". I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.
At any rate, my wife is from Branson. Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there. If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going. On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL. My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)
This is a frequent occurrence at the turn to my office.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/42H8QSWdWevD89c2A
A TWLTL becomes a left-turn lane prior to the signal at KY 15 and Jett Drive. Typically, I will not turn left into the turn lane until the striping changes from yellow to white. It's not uncommon for someone who's been behind me to cut into the late in the vicinity of the funeral home and speed past me to make the left turn. I have to watch very carefully to make sure I don't cut into someone who's pulling alongside me.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 15, 2024, 05:58:49 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 05:03:20 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on January 15, 2024, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 15, 2024, 03:05:20 PM
It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.
^^
I agree with this concept.
And I get the concept. But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to". To me, that means "you aren't allowed to". I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.
At any rate, my wife is from Branson. Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there. If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going. On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL. My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)
This is a frequent occurrence at the turn to my office.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/42H8QSWdWevD89c2A
A TWLTL becomes a left-turn lane prior to the signal at KY 15 and Jett Drive. Typically, I will not turn left into the turn lane until the striping changes from yellow to white. It's not uncommon for someone who's been behind me to cut into the late in the vicinity of the funeral home and speed past me to make the left turn. I have to watch very carefully to make sure I don't cut into someone who's pulling alongside me.
Not uncommon in a lot of places, really. I don't mind cutting over before the striping switches from yellow to white, and I do so with some frequency, but I only do it with hesitation and extra caution.
But in Branson, there's often so much traffic that the tailback from a red light can easily extend a half-mile or more—and left-turning drivers approaching the tail of that tailback are often all to happy to just cruise past everyone the whole way in the TWLTL. And, really, it's hard (but certainly not impossible!) to blame them.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:44:01 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 15, 2024, 02:33:33 PM
The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.
Says who?
In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law". No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into". If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?
It's specifically not allowed in my state:
Quote from: ORS 811.346 §2
A person who turns into a special left turn lane from an alley, driveway or other entrance to the highway that has the special left turn lane is in violation of this section if the person does anything other than stop in the lane and merge into traffic in the lane immediately to the right of the person's vehicle.
Quote from: GaryV on January 12, 2024, 09:31:31 AM
When the left turn green arrow comes on, and the guy first in line isn't paying attention, and he makes you miss the arrow. And there's 2 or 3 cars between you, so you don't honk because you don't want to make it look like you think it's their fault.
Related to this is the person who lollygags through the turn like there is no one else behind them who also wants to make that left on the green arrow. A side corollary to this is the left-turning person who waits back at the stop bar instead of drifting into the intersection ready to make the turn when there is a break in oncoming traffic. When there is a break, they are too far back to take advantage or they have time to make their turn but the next car is stuck when the gap closes.
Quote from: VTGoose on January 16, 2024, 09:44:09 PM
Related to this is the person who lollygags through the turn like there is no one else behind them who also wants to make that left on the green arrow.
Sometimes I'm hauling something that might tip over or spill, so gradual turns are a must. If I'm heading to a dinner party with a pot full of chili, then I care a lot more about chili spilling all over the floorboard than I do about how much of a hurry the guy behind me is in.
In my current vehicle, if the oil level drops below a certain level, then quick left turns cause the oil to slosh to one side of the timing cover, and the timing chain clatters due to lack of lubrication. If I start hearing that sound but haven't had the chance to top off the oil, then I care a lot more about avoiding a multi-thousand-dollar engine repair than I do about how much of a hurry the guy behind me is in.
I'm sure there are other reasons that other drivers have for turning left more slowly than you'd like.
Quote from: VTGoose on January 16, 2024, 09:44:09 PM
A side corollary to this is the left-turning person who waits back at the stop bar instead of drifting into the intersection ready to make the turn when there is a break in oncoming traffic. When there is a break, they are too far back to take advantage or they have time to make their turn but the next car is stuck when the gap closes.
I usually wait behind the stop bar until I notice a gap in traffic, but then I move out into the intersection a couple of seconds before the gap actually forms, so I don't actually spend much time in the middle of the intersection before turning. I figure that's the best of both worlds.
Yesterday evening, I saw a driver on the cross-street waiting behind the stop bar with a HYUUUGE (Trump-style) gap to turn left through, but the driver just sat there behind the stop bar, not turning. The light changed before any other gap appeared. I'm glad nobody was behind them; I'd have been ticked.
My left-turn pet peeve: When the person behind me thinks I'm not turning left quickly enough, so they immediately turn into the wrong lane (the far lane) and zoom around me. I'm very aware of other traffic around me. I change lanes immediately after turning left if I notice someone wanting to go faster, but they don't even give me the opportunity.
^^^
Isn't it illegal in some states to pull out into the intersection to wait to turn? Or to be in the intersection when the light turns red?
If I'm in a place with photo enforcement (I'm looking at you, Kingsport, Tenn.) then I make sure I'm positioned behind the stop bar while waiting to make a left turn. I don't want to get caught out in the intersection when the light turns red and the camera goes off.
Quote from: kphoger on January 17, 2024, 10:42:45 AM
My left-turn pet peeve: When the person behind me thinks I'm not turning left quickly enough, so they immediately turn into the wrong lane (the far lane) and zoom around me. I'm very aware of other traffic around me. I change lanes immediately after turning left if I notice someone wanting to go faster, but they don't even give me the opportunity.
In this situation I usually try to complete the turn into the correct lane first, then immediately put my blinker on, then switch lanes to pass them if they have shown no indication of doing so. There's a right turn on my commute like this where I will admit that the turning and passing movements sometimes blend into one simultaneous movement, especially if I'm behind a large truck or vehicle that's otherwise slow to accelerate.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2024, 02:39:12 PM
If I'm in a place with photo enforcement (I'm looking at you, Kingsport, Tenn.) then I make sure I'm positioned behind the stop bar while waiting to make a left turn. I don't want to get caught out in the intersection when the light turns red and the camera goes off.
Is there any concrete evidence of left-turners being ticketed for going on red? That's just SOP for the first car in line in most places; I would be stunned if drivers are actually being ticketed for it if they're already waiting to turn.
Quote from: kphoger on January 15, 2024, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 12, 2024, 01:55:05 PM
2. Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?
Quote from: CovalenceSTU on January 12, 2024, 04:41:43 PM
I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.
It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.
I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic. Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.
Getting up to speed wasn't my trigger. It's somebody pulling into the TWLTL right next to me and then
matching my speed, thus being a rolling blockade when I want to pull into that lane to make a left turn. Happened to me twice this week.
Speaking of keeping abreast: The driver who slows down to make a lane change but keeps abreast of the vehicle already in that lane, thus driving slowly with the blinker on for a half mile.
Also: Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2024, 09:39:21 AM
Also: Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2024, 09:54:38 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2024, 09:39:21 AM
Also: Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.
MUTCD calls for it to be Portland orange.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 18, 2024, 09:54:38 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2024, 09:39:21 AM
Also: Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.
Even if so, that doesn't answer the question. If the pedestrian signal is going to show Don't Walk all the time to allow for flexible traffic signal timing, why is it there? And the ones around me that do this don't have a pushbutton to request a longer crossing time, so don't suggest that.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2024, 09:39:21 AM
Getting up to speed wasn't my trigger. It's somebody pulling into the TWLTL right next to me and then matching my speed, thus being a rolling blockade when I want to pull into that lane to make a left turn. Happened to me twice this week.
Speaking of keeping abreast: The driver who slows down to make a lane change but keeps abreast of the vehicle already in that lane, thus driving slowly with the blinker on for a half mile.
Also: Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
Inability to merge in general is a pet peeve of mine, and apparently not just mine. Drivers who zoom up the on-ramp to exactly match my speed, then wonder why they can't easily get into my lane, then either floor it or step on their brakes as the accel space runs out...
Quote from: webny99 on January 17, 2024, 03:31:13 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 17, 2024, 02:39:12 PM
If I'm in a place with photo enforcement (I'm looking at you, Kingsport, Tenn.) then I make sure I'm positioned behind the stop bar while waiting to make a left turn. I don't want to get caught out in the intersection when the light turns red and the camera goes off.
Is there any concrete evidence of left-turners being ticketed for going on red? That's just SOP for the first car in line in most places; I would be stunned if drivers are actually being ticketed for it if they're already waiting to turn.
I don't know, and I have no intention of finding out.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on January 18, 2024, 09:39:21 AM
Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time. Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?
That's not "all the time", that's technically "all the time" minus two seconds, although people often start across during the countown based on their own ability to know how fast they can walk. The question is whether it does this only when the light is constantly cycling. In the middle of the night, is it normally green on the main drag, and red on the cross street until someone comes along? In that case, during the idle period are all directions showing Don't Walk indefinitely?
I recall that in Portland OR I used to see a lot of traffic lights that, late at night, stayed green with a Walk signal on the main road, until someone came along on the side street. The strange thing was, every minute or so the Walk signal would go into its Don't Walk countdown, and when it got to zero, go right back to Walk.
Quote from: webny99 on January 13, 2024, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 13, 2024, 03:52:03 PM
Quote from: Quillz on January 13, 2024, 03:15:04 PM
People who honk at me when I'm at a "no right turn on red" intersection. No, I'm not going to break the law just because I probably won't get caught.
Generalizing, getting honked at for refusing to break the law period. I seem to recall someone upthread mentioning honking at someone for not using the shoulder to make a right on red, despite driving on the shoulder like that being illegal.
Yeah, that was me. Technically going 56 mph on a 55 mph freeway is illegal too, doesn't mean no one does it or even that it's necessarily always the wrong thing to do in context with other laws. And yeah, I will admit that there are some locations where, if someone refuses to use the shoulder to turn right on red when it was literally expanded by the DOT (or county, town, or whatever) for that purpose, then I will just go around them if it's safe to do so. For all I know, there's a 50/50 chance it was their hazards on instead of their blinker anyways. :D
I pass by this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7597102,-73.76586,3a,28.9y,303.55h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2PCbUV_cFApTGy65XACy5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) often enough, to the point where I usually don't notice it. Not sure why I did today, but this discussion was the first thing I thought of when I did. Granted, it's not a state install (these are both town roads), but I do find it interesting that right as the shoulder widens out at the intersection there's a sign saying not to drive on it.
Quote from: vdeane on February 09, 2024, 11:18:04 PM
I pass by this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7597102,-73.76586,3a,28.9y,303.55h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2PCbUV_cFApTGy65XACy5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) often enough, to the point where I usually don't notice it. Not sure why I did today, but this discussion was the first thing I thought of when I did. Granted, it's not a state install (these are both town roads), but I do find it interesting that right as the shoulder widens out at the intersection there's a sign saying not to drive on it.
I'm curious if you have noticed whether it's common for people to drive on it anyways. I feel like in most similar situations (without the sign) those who don't use the shoulder would be the outlier, but maybe not here if the sign has any effect.
Quote from: webny99 on February 10, 2024, 12:30:06 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 09, 2024, 11:18:04 PM
I pass by this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7597102,-73.76586,3a,28.9y,303.55h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2PCbUV_cFApTGy65XACy5g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) often enough, to the point where I usually don't notice it. Not sure why I did today, but this discussion was the first thing I thought of when I did. Granted, it's not a state install (these are both town roads), but I do find it interesting that right as the shoulder widens out at the intersection there's a sign saying not to drive on it.
I'm curious if you have noticed whether it's common for people to drive on it anyways. I feel like in most similar situations (without the sign) those who don't use the shoulder would be the outlier, but maybe not here if the sign has any effect.
It doesn't. In fact, I think I see it here
more often than elsewhere, probably because this is the highest AADT road I drive regularly where the shoulder widens out at an intersection like that.
Honestly, I feel like my driving behavior isn't very driven by what everyone else does when such contradicts how one is supposed to drive (when a situation is ambiguous is another story). I pass turning vehicles on the shoulder and drive 5-7 mph over the limit mainly because I was encouraged to do so when I was learning; if left to my own devices, I probably wouldn't do either. So my driving is a combination of following the law more strictly than others and how my parents drive (getting more like the former and less like the latter over time; I now keep right except to pass instead of sticking to the middle lane by default, and I turn into the rightmost/leftmost lane and do an immediate lane change if I need to unless a turn is too quick to even do that, while my parents would likely turn directly into whatever lane they need in such circumstances). Honestly, I'd like to even stamp out the remaining behaviors, but that's in large part dependent on that 70 mph speed limit bill passing, as I'm not willing to make my Rochester/Albany drives take substantially longer to do it.