New I-70 Mississippi River Bridge

[Scott5114]

I have seen enough documents that conflict with that to consider it fiction. I seem to recall most of the basis of the "44 at the Mississippi" interpretation consists of I-44 shields on westbound 70/64/55, which could certainly be merely lacking "TO" designations.

[adt1982]

Officially, it travels with I-55 north to the Poplar Street Bridge and across it to the state line.

http://www.cosmos-monitor.com/cgi-bin/mo-log-routes.cgi?number=44

I never knew that.  I'll bet it's not signed.

also, there's not any chance of an ILLINOIS I-44 shield any time soon, is there?

Any Illinois I-xx shield is rare enough.

[adt1982]

I have seen enough documents that conflict with that to consider it fiction. I seem to recall most of the basis of the "44 at the Mississippi" interpretation consists of I-44 shields on westbound 70/64/55, which could certainly be merely lacking "TO" designations.

The signs on 70/55/64 in Illinois say West I-44 South I-55 in xx miles. Yes, a case could be made that they are missing a TO banner over 44, but an equally compelling case could probably be made that they are not missing.

[NYYPhil777]

I know this is an old thread, but to share in on this thread:
Here's a picture showing where I-44 currently is, and where it will be after I-70 gets re-routed onto the new bridge. On the left is the before, on the right is the after.

The I-44 is regular green, and the new I-70 alignment is "Mountain Dew" green.

There's a convincing amount of evidence on the MoDOT website that hints that the depressed section of current I-70 will be I-44.
And I saw your ideas for I-264- I would rather prefer a MO 264. MO 340 would be re-numbered as MO 264, and I would want it extended to I-44 from Manchester Road (MO 100). The routing east of I-170 would be truncated (or deleted).

They already have signs in place that will show I-44 with its inane northward extension covered up my metal plates.

Those photos must be fairly recent- I haven't been in downtown STL in 2 months.

Officially, it travels with I-55 north to the Poplar Street Bridge and across it to the state line.

http://www.cosmos-monitor.com/cgi-bin/mo-log-routes.cgi?number=44

I never knew that.  I'll bet it's not signed.

also, there's not any chance of an ILLINOIS I-44 shield any time soon, is there?

I-44 in Illinois- 99.9% unlikely. (I almost never say 100%.)

[Scott5114]

I have seen enough documents that conflict with that to consider it fiction. I seem to recall most of the basis of the "44 at the Mississippi" interpretation consists of I-44 shields on westbound 70/64/55, which could certainly be merely lacking "TO" designations.

The signs on 70/55/64 in Illinois say West I-44 South I-55 in xx miles. Yes, a case could be made that they are missing a TO banner over 44, but an equally compelling case could probably be made that they are not missing.

FHWA's route log doesn't show any overlap with I-70 or I-55. I don't consider a sign-based argument as compelling as a document-based one, since there are several instances of signs not matching up with what the "real" designations are, for reasons as noble as helping the traveler find the most logical route, to the DOT sign division just plain dropping the ball.

Let's not forget the fact that the Chicago Skyway is/was signed "TO I-90", but has been I-90 all along, for instance. And of course some states have multitudes of state highways (and even Interstates!) that fully exist but are utterly unsigned. Going by signs alone you'd have to say that I-444 simply doesn't exist.

At least the I-44 extension will clear up the confusion! Unless they pull the same stunt and put 44 signs on the new bridge...

[Alex]

Those photos must be fairly recent- I haven't been in downtown STL in 2 months.

Those are from early May of this year.

FHWA's route log doesn't show any overlap with I-70 or I-55. I don't consider a sign-based argument as compelling as a document-based one, since there are several instances of signs not matching up with what the "real" designations are, for reasons as noble as helping the traveler find the most logical route, to the DOT sign division just plain dropping the ball.

Let's not forget the fact that the Chicago Skyway is/was signed "TO I-90", but has been I-90 all along, for instance. And of course some states have multitudes of state highways (and even Interstates!) that fully exist but are utterly unsigned. Going by signs alone you'd have to say that I-444 simply doesn't exist.

At least the I-44 extension will clear up the confusion! Unless they pull the same stunt and put 44 signs on the new bridge...

The overlap north along I-55 and across the Poplar Street Bridge to the state line has been in the roadgeek circles for as long as I can remember. Having said that, you do kind of get a convenience based signing that I-44 and 55 are cosigned southbound. There are no reassurance shields posted between I-64 and the split though, just overheads.

Northbound sees a lone I-55 marker, but as you see with the signs above, it will be cosigned eventually.

[rte66man]

... I don't consider a sign-based argument as compelling as a document-based one, since there are several instances of signs not matching up with what the "real" designations are, for reasons as noble as helping the traveler find the most logical route, to the DOT sign division just plain dropping the ball.

Going by signs alone you'd have to say that I-444 simply doesn't exist.

I-444 is a figment of ODOT's imagination

rte66man

[NYYPhil777]

(begin rant)
Also, MoDOT and IDiOT both claim that the reason the new bridge will be a meager four-lane bridge (that is, two lanes each way) is because if traffic accumulates, the bridge could be six-laned or a companion bridge could be built to the south of it.
Traffic won't be that heavy! What a waste of taxpayer dollars and local anticipation it will be for just a four-lane bridge.
And motorists on Tucker Boulevard (where I-70 will continue westbound and I-44 will end eastbound) won't be able to get on I-44 westbound!
(end rant)

[Revive 755]

I know this is an old thread, but to share in on this thread:
Here's a picture showing where I-44 currently is, and where it will be after I-70 gets re-routed onto the new bridge. On the left is the before, on the right is the after.

The I-44 is regular green, and the new I-70 alignment is "Mountain Dew" green.

The map on the right is not quite correct with I-70's future alignment.  I-70 will feed into the Tri-Level directly across from I-64 for the foreseeable future.  The future buildout would have I-70 come into I-55 separately from the Tri-Level, but I-70 would pass north of the racetrack before turning south and merging with I-55 east of IL 203.

[Scott5114]

Interesting thought I just had: after this project is complete, the I-44 eastbound lanes will default onto I-70 westbound.

[Alex]

Interesting thought I just had: after this project is complete, the I-44 eastbound lanes will default onto I-70 westbound.

Another reason why the extension of I-44 is impractical.  What is the impetus for extending I-44 northward versus designating a new route? The old I-70 will be more of a connector than a through route.

[Revive 755]

I don't know the official MoDOT rationale, but I bet it is something along the lines of not having the route constantly changing numbers - somewhat similar to the earlier removal of I-244 from St. Louis.  It's no worse than I-64 turning back west in the Hampton Roads area.

[Brandon]

Interesting thought I just had: after this project is complete, the I-44 eastbound lanes will default onto I-70 westbound.

It would make more sense as I-755 (there's a revived number for you).

[Alps]

Remember that I-44 starts out north or even a little northwest. It's just being diagonal. I have no problem with it.

[NYYPhil777]

Remember that I-44 starts out north or even a little northwest. It's just being diagonal. I have no problem with it.

I think that was just what MoDOT had in mind.

[NE2]

Also remember that I-44 replaced part of US 66 - and this takes it closer to the Chain of Rocks Bridge

The future staggering of overlaps is somewhat similar to Nashville.

[Revive 755]

New plan for the PSB interchange involves adding a new ramp from the MLK Bridge EB to SB I-55 on the Illinois side, sliding the PSB superstructure to add a fifth EB lane, and develop a C-D type lane for EB US 40 at the Last Missouri exit.  See:

http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2012/PSBPresentation-091412.pdf
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2012/PSBRpt-091412.pdf

[NYYPhil777]

New plan for the PSB interchange involves adding a new ramp from the MLK Bridge EB to SB I-55 on the Illinois side, sliding the PSB superstructure to add a fifth EB lane, and develop a C-D type lane for EB US 40 at the Last Missouri exit.  See:

http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2012/PSBPresentation-091412.pdf
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2012/PSBRpt-091412.pdf

Was the "Last Exit In Missouri" on I-64 a stub ramp for proposed Route 755? 

[NE2]

Was the "Last Exit In Missouri" on I-64 a stub ramp for proposed Route 755? 

No.

[Revive 755]

Was the "Last Exit In Missouri" on I-64 a stub ramp for proposed Route 755? 

No, MO 755 would have used the Chestnut at 20th/Market at 21st interchange:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=st.+louis,+mo&hl=en&ll=38.628781,-90.210768&spn=0.007082,0.016512&sll=42.032432,-88.091192&sspn=0.215482,0.528374&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&t=k&z=17

The Last Missouri Exit had been briefly proposed to be replaced by a connection between I-55 and US 40 in the late 1990's as part of the Southside Major Transportation Investment Analysis; the connection would have made up for the lack of MO 755 and the lack of ramps at the PSB interchange.

[Henry]

Here's a picture showing where I-44 currently is, and where it will be after I-70 gets re-routed onto the new bridge. On the left is the before, on the right is the after.

The I-44 is regular green, and the new I-70 alignment is "Mountain Dew" green.

So I-70 will leave MO earlier than it currently does? Interesting. And will the mileage in IL be adjusted or remain the same as before?

FWIW, St. Louis is beginning to resemble Philadelphia in that there are two interstate bridges crossing the same river within a 5-mile radius.

They already have signs in place that will show I-44 with its inane northward extension covered up by metal plates.

And so, the madness begins...

[amroad17]

The mileage should not change because the exit numbers from St. Louis to I-270 are based on I-55's mileage and the exit numbers on I-70 from I-270 eastward are just a continuation of I-270's mileage.  If you are talking about distance signs, they shouldn't change either just because I-70 will cross into Missouri at a different location.

[Henry]

The mileage should not change because the exit numbers from St. Louis to I-270 are based on I-55's mileage and the exit numbers on I-70 from I-270 eastward are just a continuation of I-270's mileage.  If you are talking about distance signs, they shouldn't change either just because I-70 will cross into Missouri at a different location.

Now that clears things up a bit!

[adt1982]

Some minor miscellaneous updates on construction related to the bridge.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/along-for-the-ride/illinois-missouri-strike-deal-on-i--ramp/article_371eefdc-07f7-11e2-83cc-0019bb30f31a.html

[NYYPhil777]

Some minor miscellaneous updates on construction related to the bridge.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/along-for-the-ride/illinois-missouri-strike-deal-on-i--ramp/article_371eefdc-07f7-11e2-83cc-0019bb30f31a.html

To paraphrase this article, once the new I-70 bridge is complete, MoDOT and IDOT will be renovating the Poplar Street Bridge. Commuters going from Illinois to Missouri will be kinda forced to take the new bridge to get to I-70 West, I-64 West, and I-55 South. Reason why I didn't put in I-44 West is because when the new bridge is complete, you'll either take I-70 West or Tucker Blvd once you cross into Missouri from Illinois. I think the interchange in Missouri needs to be changed to accomodate traffic wanting I-44 West.
Here's a link to that intersection: http://www.newriverbridge.org/documents/meeting%20materials/public/InterchangeOverall_PublicMeeting2.pdf