I-24

[lamsalfl]

I've been reading on some other threads that I-24's current route may have been due to political motivations.  Also, I read that I-57 is being widened north of I-24.  Has there ever been the political will or traffic need for I-24 to be extended to I-255?

[Revive 755]

A while back (mid 1990's?) there was a group called the SouthWestern Illinois Freeway Team, (SWIFT), which tried to get an improved route up to the St. Louis area.  IDOT apparently looked at a toll option, but didn't find enough traffic to build one.  The most the area is getting is a four lane IL 127 up to I-64 for the foreseeable future; in the study for IL 127 it is said that other studies did not a direct route to St. Louis worthwhile, yet IDOT has not bothered to make such studies available.

[3467]

I have the toll study it followed the old supplemental freeway corridor and it was not feasable nor was a Chicago-KC Tollway. These were done before electronics made a toll arterial realistic. However only one part of the C-KC route would be elegible and US 30 near I-88 because all other downstate routes incorproate the existing route esp IL 127.
IDOT included 127 and IL 3 to Cape Girardeau along with IL 1 /US 45 as part of teh Delt Development highway It said 127 was the Priority strangly it was another streach of US 45/IL that was funded in the Capital Bill.
There is a Feas. Study for Interstate 66 in there as well.
I woulod finally add that IDOT wanted to go through Pickneyville but the locals wanted a bypass Usually its the other way around

[Revive 755]

Somewhat on topic regarding I-24, here's a map that shows three of the routes considered through Kentucky:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VrQdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_UUEAAAAIBAJ&dq=interstate-64&pg=7185%2C1959258

[RoadWarrior56]

I've see the southmost I-24 alternative from that map in an old Rand McNally Road Atlas, I think 1960.  Sometime years ago, and I can't remember where, I had seen an I-24 alternative that crossed the Mississippi River into Missouri from Kentucky and connected to I-55 rather than I-57.  Somebody from an earlier thread mentioned that there was also an alterntive that crossed into Missouri from northern Tennessee.

I would love to see the BPR report discussed the various I-24 alternatives that were considered and gave the rationale for the selection that was made.  I drive I-24 often between I-75 and US 41A (soon to the Pennyrile), so it is kind of more than passing interest to me.

[RoadWarrior56]

On further consideration, I can probably predict most of the arguments for the selected alignment.  This was before NEPA, so cost and traffic would likely be the major considerations (notwithstanding political aspects that may be brought up by a congressman or senator).

The selected route crosses the Tennessee River and Cumberland River BELOW Kentucky Lake and Lake Barkley.  You would need bridges over rivers vs long causeways plus bridges over the lakes.  That might have been the deal breaker for the other routes shown on the map.  Plus the central route doesn't really serve any towns between Hopkinsville and Paducah.  Another advantage for the selected route is probaby that it better connects with the Western Kentucky Parkway, although I am not sure if that would be a primary advantage to the Feds, except that it might attract more traffic to that route.

When considering a connection through Illinois to I-57 versus a connection through Missouri to I-55, the probable advantages for the selected route are possibly a lower cost for an Ohio River crossing versus an Mississippi River crossing, providing an alternate route to Chicago via I-57 as well as the indirect route to St. Louis, which would probably mean higher traffic volumes.  Needless to say, a connection to I-55 would had provided less of an indirect route to St. Louis, since only one additonal interstate would be used, instead of two.  However, I figure Paducah saw that the Illinois route would serve it better than a route into Missouri.

[Revive 755]

^ Looking through the Google News Archive again yesterday, it seemed that Illinois and Tennessee were more of the deciding factors for I-24's terminus, with I-24's Mississippi River crossing being traded for the I-155 Mississippi River crossing.

[RoadWarrior56]

Interesting reading:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7eUrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QGcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1130,5422422&dq=interstate+24+and+paducah+and+1962&hl=en

[codyg1985]

"The highway from Nashville to Kansas City"?

That is rather interesting.

[Henry]

A while back (mid 1990's?) there was a group called the SouthWestern Illinois Freeway Team, (SWIFT), which tried to get an improved route up to the St. Louis area.  IDOT apparently looked at a toll option, but didn't find enough traffic to build one.  The most the area is getting is a four lane IL 127 up to I-64 for the foreseeable future; in the study for IL 127 it is said that other studies did not a direct route to St. Louis worthwhile, yet IDOT has not bothered to make such studies available.

If they had gone through with that proposal, then there would already be a more direct high-speed nonstop connection between St. Louis and Atlanta. However, with the possible expressway connection to Cape Girardeau, it may not happen in the forseeable future.

[Revive 755]

"The highway from Nashville to Kansas City"?

That is rather interesting.

Indeed.  Typo or a new mystery route?

One possibility that comes to mind (what follows is speculation) is that Missouri wanted to route I-24 over the super St. Louis bypass between I-55 and I-44, then up the then proposed US 63 Rolla-Columbia intestate to I-70. (see map in http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=G20fAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WNUEAAAAIBAJ&dq=interstate-24%20illinois&pg=2449%2C1905516).  Other option would have been over US 60 and the MO 13-MO 7 Springfield-KC route, but that one does not seem as likely to me versus the other option or a corridor with a larger new-terrain section.

[RoadWarrior56]

More interesting reading.  The article below implies that the 1963 Wilbur Smith study was going to recommend an I-24 terminus in Missouri to hook up with I-55.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=9cwfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mNgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6686,4516621&dq=interstate+24+and+interstate+55&hl=en

[RoadWarrior56]

The final decision was apparently made in 1964 by the Feds.  The newspaper link is at bottom.  So Wilbur Smith indeed did recommend that I-24 continue into Missouri but that recommendation was not obviously followed.  And I-155 did come out of this decision as well, I suppose to help seal the deal.   If I-64 had stayed on its orignal northern alignment, I suppose that I-24 would had indeed crossed into Missouri to I-55, since I-64 would had been located too far north to be part of a viable connection from the Southeast US.

I suppose this is one reason why I-24 was not completed until 1980.  It got a late start west of Nashville.  And I-64 was not finished in this area until 1976.  By growing up in Evansville, we had to wait for years to get our nearby interstates, since both of these roads had controversey and delay associated with their final locations.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=T3opAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kdcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1670,4415823&dq=interstate+24+and+wilbur+smith&hl=en

[kharvey10]

That US 50 bypass in Vincennes would had been a part of I-64 if it was on the original alignment.  Political pressure in both IL and IN pushed the alignment closer to the US 460 corridor.  Most of I-64 in Southern Illinois was finished by 1974 except the interchange with 55/70 that came by the end of 1975.

I-57 was also politically motivated as well, especially in Southern Illinois.  A certain congressman that was in Congress back in the 1950s that was from that part of the state wouldn't support that bill unless he got what he wanted.  (For more downstate IL politically motivated interstate trivia, see I-55 and I-155.)

Why they didn't have I-24 continue west to St. Louis in the first place puzzles me.  That 50 mile section of I-57 from I-24 to I-64 is heavily traveled, especially in the summer months.  There is no direct St. Louis to Carbondale route, and Carbondale is home of SIU.  St. Louis has a big chunk of SIU Alumni (so does Chicagoland).  The main routes from STL to Carbondale is IL 13 and IL 127, which IDOT is planning on widening.

[codyg1985]

The final decision was apparently made in 1964 by the Feds.  The newspaper link is at bottom.  So Wilbur Smith indeed did recommend that I-24 continue into Missouri but that recommendation was not obviously followed.  And I-155 did come out of this decision as well, I suppose to help seal the deal.   If I-64 had stayed on its orignal northern alignment, I suppose that I-24 would had indeed crossed into Missouri to I-55, since I-64 would had been located too far north to be part of a viable connection from the Southeast US.

I suppose this is one reason why I-24 was not completed until 1980.  It got a late start west of Nashville.  And I-64 was not finished in this area until 1976.  By growing up in Evansville, we had to wait for years to get our nearby interstates, since both of these roads had controversey and delay associated with their final locations.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=T3opAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kdcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1670,4415823&dq=interstate+24+and+wilbur+smith&hl=en

The newspaper article also mentions that the Carthursville Mississippi River link (which would later become I-155/US 412) would eventually be extended to I-40. Interesting to note that the current US 412 between Dyersburg and Jackson is a very good expressway with interchanges at a lot of major routes.

It would seem to me that a link to Cape Girardeau from I-24 at it's current terminus would be less beneficial than a link to St. Louis. At the time, was a link to Cape Girardeau invisioned from Metropollis, IL?

[RoadWarrior56]

It seemed by reading between the lines from the old newspaper articles, the recommended alignment from Wilbur Smith would had probably crossed I-57 at approximately its current location but continuing west to the Mississippi River, crossing into Missouri just below Cape Girardeau.  In one of the articles I found, it mentioned that there were 21 or 22 alignments that were studied.

I would love to see the actual Wilbur Smith study, if it still exists.  The map with all of those alternatives would be especially interesting.

It sounds like the 4 governers and LBJ settled the entire dispute.  Wow, this whole impasse went on for several years.  The selected alignment for I-24 presumably made Kentucky and Illinois happy.  Extending I-24 west into Missouri would had made Missouri happy but not done anything for Tennessee.  Keeping more of I-24 in Tennessee with a more southerly alignment was not what Kentucky wanted (based on other articles I found).

The addition of I-155 read like a good old-fashioned political compromise.  Kentucky and Illinois had already gotten what they wanted with the approved location of I-24.  I-155 would provide the missing Mississippi River bridge and benefit both Tennessee and Missouri.  So everybody wins.

[RoadWarrior56]

I stand corrected on the preferred alignment of I-24 from the Wilbur Smith study.  I just looked at a map and noticed that Cape Gairardeau and Scott City, MO are considerably south of the actual I-24 terminus.  Extending west from the current terminus would not had worked.  Presumably, I-24 would had turned due west as soon as it entered Illinois and crossed the state not very far north of Cairo.

[TheStranger]

IIRC, wasn't I-155 originally proposed as "I-24W"?  This explains that numbering!

[Grzrd]

The final decision was apparently made in 1964 by the Feds.  The newspaper link is at bottom.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=T3opAAAAIBAJ&sjid=kdcEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1670,4415823&dq=interstate+24+and+wilbur+smith&hl=en

Actually I-24/US 24 in Illinois is a better example. Tell them that Illinois has no problems with it.

(bottom quote from the I-49 in AR (Bella Vista, Fort Smith) thread)

In email corresondence with FHWA, I asked them to explain the I-24/US 24 peaceful coexistence that NE2 pointed out.  I received a response today:

You are correct, I-24 was not an Interstate number required by law.  The designation of I-24 as an special circumstance.  The route was designated and number as I-24 via a special agreement brokered by the President, 4 governors, and the Administrator of FHWA.  Please see the attached article.

The "attached article" is a three-page pdf from the September 27, 1963 issue of the U.S. Commerce Department's Public Roads Round-Up. I snipped a photo of JFK brokering the deal:

[codyg1985]

Interesting that the governor of Missouri was there but the governor of Georgia wasn't.

[agentsteel53]

Interesting that the governor of Missouri was there but the governor of Georgia wasn't.

was that end of 24 settled sufficiently that there was no need for him to be present?

[kharvey10]

That one had nothing to do with the state of Georgia.  Its only irony now that I-155 is being truly linked up with I-24 as a portion of I-69.

[NE2]

Interesting. But I don't quite buy that it was only allowed because JFK, since the number already existed from Nashville to Chattanooga (this segment was part of the network plans going back to 1939, presumably since it forms part of the Chicago-Florida route, and was numbered 24 in 1957). And the 1958 numbering plan clearly puts I-24 in Illinois (though a ca. 1963 map still shows it as an indeterminate route to I-57 near Cairo).

There's also the small matter of 40 and 80 in California; I have no idea if Caltrans had already decided to get rid of the U.S. Routes when the Interstates were built.

[agentsteel53]

There's also the small matter of 40 and 80 in California; I have no idea if Caltrans had already decided to get rid of the U.S. Routes when the Interstates were built.

I believe they had.

interesting that there are a lot of remnants of US-40 co-signed with I-80, but I've never seen a US-80/I-8 cosign.  not a single one.  neither a historic photo, nor a greenout/scrapeoff on a current sign. 

given that US-80 was still on the books until 1972, and there are plenty of signs as old as 1961 on I-8, this shows an intent to disregard it early.

[Captain Jack]

Don't forget, Evansville was also under consideration as a control point for I-24. This route would have basically followed US 41 between Nashville and Evansville, where it would tie into I-64.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=sOQrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=KWcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1896,2372526&dq=interstate+24+evansville&hl=en

In terms of traffic and population, this actually would have made the most sense. Had this route been chosen, I think a north-south number such as 61 or 63 would have been more applicable.