Oddly Designated Control Cities

[hobsini2]

Kansas seems to use the next county seat on directional signage on surface highways, regardless of what lies beyond it. Coming west from Dodge City, you would expect to see Garden City (pop. 26,000), which is only 50 miles, but instead they use Cimarron (pop. 2,200).

Yup, county seats figure in the control point assignment hierarchy.  Per KDOT's Highway Sign Manual (2007), KDOT off-Interstate standards call for a choice of control point which meets one of the following criteria, listed in descending order of priority:

*  County seat within 100 miles

*  Incorporated city with population greater than 1000 and within 100 miles

*  Major highway route

*  Incorporated city with sub-1000 population

*  Unincorporated community

Since Kansas is essentially a checkerboard of counties with a typical width and height around 30 miles, this policy is part of the reason nearby county seats "hide" only slightly more distant but much more populous cities.  On US 54, for example, distance signing for Wichita does not appear until Greensburg (about 100 miles out).  And since the state highway system is designed to provide north-south and east-west connections at almost all county seats, it is fairly rare for anything other than a county seat to be offered as a destination on signs which ask drivers to make a choice of direction, though routes are fairly frequently signed on distance signs (in text form only, with US routes almost always receiving an unnecessary hyphen).

This is exactly why I believe that US routes should have similar mileage signs that the Interstates do.  In the case of US 54 in Kansas, if I was just east of US 83 in Liberal, I would use Kismet, pop 466, (which is the next town) or Plains (next town with 1134), Meade (next county seat), Wichita (next city with a good sized pop).  I wish that the states would not treat US routes like a plain old state highway.

[spmkam]

However, in many states (esp. the Northeast) US highways aren't any different than any other state roads. IE. Boston Post Rd (US-1)

[A.J. Bertin]

SB I-285 north of Atlanta has Tampa as a control city, while SB I-75 has Macon as a control city. Tampa is a good five hours south of Macon (both are on I-75)

I suppose there is the assumption that I-285 is long-haul through traffic, and therefore less likely to stop in Macon than in Tampa.

I'd be curious as to which section of I-285 this was on... northwest or northeast? If it's SB I-285 on the northeast side of Atlanta, it seems like either Macon or Tampa would be okay. (Tampa still seems a little strange though.) If it's SB I-285 on the northwest side of Atlanta, wouldn't Montgomery make more sense?

[nwi_navigator_1181]

SB I-285 north of Atlanta has Tampa as a control city, while SB I-75 has Macon as a control city. Tampa is a good five hours south of Macon (both are on I-75)

I suppose there is the assumption that I-285 is long-haul through traffic, and therefore less likely to stop in Macon than in Tampa.

I'd be curious as to which section of I-285 this was on... northwest or northeast? If it's SB I-285 on the northeast side of Atlanta, it seems like either Macon or Tampa would be okay. (Tampa still seems a little strange though.) If it's SB I-285 on the northwest side of Atlanta, wouldn't Montgomery make more sense?

I seem to recall these signs located on the Northwest Quadrant of the bypass. It would make sense for Montgomery to be a long term control city (seeing that you hit I-85 first before I-75). At the same time, I'm sure the current setup was done with the highest consideration given to those driving on I-75 Southbound.

I'd bet in the Northeast Quadrant (where I-85 and I-285 intersect), I-285 south is given Montgomery with consideration to I-85 south traffic, although you run into I-75 before you hit I-85.

Recently returning from Iowa, I was quite surprised to see I-80 given Chicago. I can understand why, but the oddity lies at the I-74/80/280 interchange. Heading eastbound on I-280, there is an indication that traffic looking to access I-88 should use I-80 west. They could have used a sign that said, "To Chicago via I-88 East, use I-80 West." Despite the fact that I-88 is tolled, it's fair to give drivers all options.

They could have used a sign similar to what I read heading to Cedar Rapids, which said, "To Des Moines, use I-280 West or I-80 West." It could have read, "To Chicago, use I-80 East or I-88 East (with a small sign under the shield saying "Via I-80 west")." That's just my opinion.

[hobsini2]

However, in many states (esp. the Northeast) US highways aren't any different than any other state roads. IE. Boston Post Rd (US-1)

You could still do that in places like New England especially with large chunks of US 6, US 7, US 44, US 202.   

[briantroutman]

Definitely up there with I-80 in Youngstown, Ohio having New York City as a control city, two states away.

I am new to the Youngstown area and I find this so annoying that I just HAD to find this thread and post about it if it were not already in here.  Just use Sharon, PA as the control city... Not that hard!

I disagree. As a native of central Pennsylvania, I must say that I felt insulted the first time I returned east from Ohio and saw "New York" as the control city. As if there wasn't anything of importance between Youngstown and New York!

But in terms of significant cities, that's exactly true. Eastbound I-80 traffic likely includes some vehicles bound for State College, Williamsport, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, but any one of those cities is too far off the Interstate and too small a proportion of overall traffic to rightfully be considered a control point. "Sharon" is so useless (to anyone who isn't one of the 13,963 who live in Sharon) as to be completely ridiculous. As are DuBois, Clarion, Bellefonte...

So it's a difficult question, and almost any control city you would designate would probably be irrelevant to the majority of motorists heading eastbound on I-80 at that point. But considering that control cities exist primarily for the purposes of aiding long-distance travelers who are unfamiliar with the area, New York, unfortunately, is the best choice.

[Mr_Northside]

"Sharon" is so useless (to anyone who isn't one of the 13,963 who live in Sharon) as to be completely ridiculous. As are DuBois, Clarion, Bellefonte...

Sharon's population might be that low now, but I think it was a lot higher back when I-80 was built.  Currently I imagine Sharon refers to the whole Sharon/Hermitage/Farrell area, which, while not real huge, is still significant.

Some of the other towns have value as control cities beyond the towns themselves.  For instance, DuBois is also where I-80 junctions with US-219, a pretty important non-interstate N/S corridor.

[roadman65]

I have seen Gatorland, an Orlando, FL tourist attraction, used as a control city opposite Kissimmee on EB Osceola Parkway in Kissimmee, FL.  Besides the sign having unusual arrows, they feature an actual city and private business on the same sign which is what makes it odd.  Most areas use separate signs for this, but then again the Osceola Parkway is one of the few roads around that charges a toll on an at grade arterial.  Why should their signing be any less odd than this.

[agentsteel53]

I have seen Gatorland, an Orlando, FL tourist attraction, used as a control city opposite Kissimmee on EB Osceola Parkway in Kissimmee, FL.  Besides the sign having unusual arrows, they feature an actual city and private business on the same sign which is what makes it odd.  Most areas use separate signs for this, but then again the Osceola Parkway is one of the few roads around that charges a toll on an at grade arterial.  Why should their signing be any less odd than this.

meanwhile, here in California, despite our budget crisis, we have not yet sold Disneyland the control city rights on I-5 between San Diego and Los Angeles.

seriously, who actually goes to Santa Ana?

[Bruce]

At the intersection of WA-127 and WA-26 in Eastern Washington, there's a sign that lists "Vantage" as a control city. It's a small city on one side of the Vantage Bridge (on I-90) that no one stops at.

[Bigmikelakers]

I-605 Northbound should have Duarte or Azusa as a control city. While southbound should have Long Beach or Seal Beach. That Thru Traffic nonsense is just silly.

And for goodness sakes, on the 710, lets change the Pasadena control city thing. The 710 going there still has plenty of hurdles to jump through before that happens. Maybe use Alhambra? Speaking of control cities on the 710, I saw Los Angeles as a control city on the northbound on ramp at Wardlow Rd in Long Beach. First time I ever seen Los Angeles mentioned on the 710. LA could work as a control city as well.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33.821329,-118.205887&spn=0.001995,0.00284&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=33.821328,-118.206401&panoid=F6FEfskcQ9EUROYI095VCA&cbp=12,343.12,,1,1.69

[Interstate Trav]

I say use Long Beach for 605 South, but keep Pasadena for the 710.  Los Angeles does have a way of showing up on all sorts of different freeways and roads in the State.  But 710 North, well that is the best way to connect the two cities.

[mrsman]

My opinion:

605 N: Duarte.  The City of Hope Hospital makes it a more important destination than Irwindale or Bradbury.

605 S: Seal Beach.  If you are travelling on 10 or 60 or 91 from the Inland Empire, it's usually better to continue west to the 710 to reach Downtown Long Beach and the ports.  To avoid confusion, sign 605 S for Seal Beach.

I would even go so far as to suggest that at the 405-605-22 interchange, 405 N should be signed as Long Beach and Santa Monica.  Traffic to Downtown LB should take 405 to 710, not drive down 7th Street for miles.  405 S should be signed for both Seal Beach and San Diego, to guide the 605 traffic to Seal Beach Blvd.

710 N: Greenout all Pasadena references and replace with Alhambra.

[SD Mapman]

At Exit 263 on I-90 in Chamberlain, the control city is Pukwana (a small town to the east). Who the heck would want to go there?

[TheStranger]

Speaking of control cities on the 710, I saw Los Angeles as a control city on the northbound on ramp at Wardlow Rd in Long Beach. First time I ever seen Los Angeles mentioned on the 710. LA could work as a control city as well.

I'm actually very surprised LA ISN'T a 710 control city - it is not only the most obvious direct route from downtown Long Beach to downtown LA, but its junction at I-5 in East Los Angeles is much closer to downtown than say, several other roads that do have LA as a control (thinking specifically of Route 14 south from the Antelope Valley and the extreme, but understandable example of Route 99 south from Stockton to Wheeler Ridge).

Pasadana functionally should be greened out until (in the far future) the section to 210 actually is completed.

[DBR96A]

As a native of central Pennsylvania, I must say that I felt insulted the first time I returned east from Ohio and saw "New York" as the control city. As if there wasn't anything of importance between Youngstown and New York!

I thought it was kind of odd too. Personally, I'd use Sharon, State College, Hazleton and Stroudsburg as the control cities in Pennsylvania.

If you want a real slap in the face, the control city on I-95 northbound in Baltimore is New York. Apparently Philadelphia doesn't exist.

Illinois uses a lot of small towns as control cities as well. I've seen Effingham, East St. Louis and Jacksonville used.

[Occidental Tourist]

Speaking of control cities on the 710, I saw Los Angeles as a control city on the northbound on ramp at Wardlow Rd in Long Beach. First time I ever seen Los Angeles mentioned on the 710. LA could work as a control city as well.

I'm actually very surprised LA ISN'T a 710 control city - it is not only the most obvious direct route from downtown Long Beach to downtown LA, but its junction at I-5 in East Los Angeles is much closer to downtown than say, several other roads that do have LA as a control (thinking specifically of Route 14 south from the Antelope Valley and the extreme, but understandable example of Route 99 south from Stockton to Wheeler Ridge).

Pasadana functionally should be greened out until (in the far future) the section to 210 actually is completed.

Agreed.  Maybe even make Alhambra the control city north of the 5.

I assume that even with short-life retroreflective signs, Caltrans is nonetheless still in its "this sign is going to be here for 30 years" mindset.

[getemngo]

As a native of central Pennsylvania, I must say that I felt insulted the first time I returned east from Ohio and saw "New York" as the control city. As if there wasn't anything of importance between Youngstown and New York!

I thought it was kind of odd too. Personally, I'd use Sharon, State College, Hazleton and Stroudsburg as the control cities in Pennsylvania.

Is it only Ohio that does this and not Pennsylvania? AASHTO's book with the list of approved control cities is $30, so screw that, but a 2004 list says Sharon, Clarion, Du Bois, Clearfield, Bellefonte, Williamsport, Bloomsburg, Hazleton, Stroudsburg, and Delaware Water Gap should be there. It's been many years since I've driven I-80 in Pennsylvania, but do I remember seeing Clarion, Williamsport, Bloomsburg, Hazleton, and Del Water Gap on pull-thrus. The m.t.r. FAQ also lists Delaware Water Gap as a control city.

[TheStranger]

Agreed.  Maybe even make Alhambra the control city north of the 5.

I would even say "TO 60/10 EAST" might be a better control city than Alhambra, and SHOULD be there in the first place - I don't recall any signage on the Santa Ana Freeway northbound guiding to 60 east from my drive there Sunday night.  (And certainly using that to bypass the East Los Angeles Interchange is never a bad idea.)

I assume that even with short-life retroreflective signs, Caltrans is nonetheless still in its "this sign is going to be here for 30 years" mindset.

It might more just be "let's replace old signs with new ones...maybe with an exit number but the same exact legend as previously."  The one nice side effect of that is that it has resulted in new SoCal signage which notes the freeway name.

[SignBridge]

I thought Caltrans was no longer showing freeway names on new signage...... More inconsistency?

[TheStranger]

I thought Caltrans was no longer showing freeway names on new signage...... More inconsistency?

Just saw a retroreflective 101/Hollywood Freeway sign at the Four-Level, along the northbound end of the Santa Ana Freeway:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Downtown+Los+Angeles&hl=en&ll=34.058007,-118.243856&spn=0.005097,0.004774&sll=37.269174,-119.306607&sspn=14.16472,19.555664&t=h&hnear=Downtown,+Los+Angeles,+California&z=18&layer=c&cbll=34.058007,-118.243856&panoid=aXGAM319QDxs6vj6rA0NPg&cbp=12,323.14,,1,-7.84

Other examples:

710 south approaching 405/San Diego Freeway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10399811023/

5 south approaching 170/Hollywood Freeway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10399587675/

5 north approaching 710/Long Beach Freeway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10399654355/in/set-72157636676683316 and http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10399820363/in/set-72157636676683316

Ironically, there is an older, button copy sign with greened out Hollywood Freeway legend where 170 south feeds into 101 south -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10399582534/in/set-72157636676683316

[Occidental Tourist]

I thought Caltrans was no longer showing freeway names on new signage...... More inconsistency?

Basically, yes.

With the inconsistent and varied naming of stretches of freeway by concurrent resolutions, it likely makes sense to have a policy that stops signing freeways with names.  But I wish they'd simply pick an ubes alles name for stretches of freeway and sign the freeway with that name, and let people post whatever other desultory names they want to use as memorial "highway" signs.

[Occidental Tourist]

Agreed.  Maybe even make Alhambra the control city north of the 5.

I would even say "TO 60/10 EAST" might be a better control city than Alhambra, and SHOULD be there in the first place - I don't recall any signage on the Santa Ana Freeway northbound guiding to 60 east from my drive there Sunday night.  (And certainly using that to bypass the East Los Angeles Interchange is never a bad idea.)

That would work too.  I bypass the East LA Interchange quite often using the 710 to the 10.

[PColumbus73]

Here in Myrtle Beach, SC 22 uses Conway as the westbound control city at US 17 and SC 31. Considering SC 22 is named the Conway Bypass, I think it would make more sense if 22 West was labeled as Marion or Florence, maybe even add an I-95 trailblazer to the sign.

SC 31 between SC 9 and US 501 uses one of the two routes on its pull-thrus. North Myrtle Beach or Wilmington would be more appropriate going northbound and Georgetown or Surfside Beach for southbound.

[TheStranger]

But I wish they'd simply pick an ubes alles name for stretches of freeway and sign the freeway with that name, and let people post whatever other desultory names they want to use as memorial "highway" signs.

I think the de facto way it works out in California is thus:

- if it is signed without a route shield, and usually to the side of the shoulder, it is NOT a name that ends up in public usage.  (Examples: 99% of memorial monikers.  John F. Foran Freeway in SF, commonly known as the Southern Freeway or 280 Extension.  James Lick Freeway, which is the northernmost segment of the Bayshore Freeway portion of 101)

- if it is signed on overheads - alongside a route shield - and on next-few-exits signs, it ABSOLUTELY is a common-usage name.  Santa Ana Freeway, San Bernardino Freeway, San Diego Freeway, Santa Monica Freeway, Pomona Freeway, Hollywood Freeway, Ventura Freeway, Harbor Freeway, (the former) Pasadena Freeway, Golden State Freeway are the classic examples in Southern California; in the Bay Area, the Bayshore Freeway used to be more prevalent on next-few-exits signage but still has one example in San Francisco.

Examples instituted post-1990 and thus have been added to encourage usage:

Capital City Freeway in Sacramento (Business 80)
Martin Luther King Jr. Freeway in San Diego (Route 94)
the revived Arroyo Seco Parkway (state Route 110)

One interesting example that I'm not sure really has an equivalent can be found in Bakersfield:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/csampang/10340307064/in/set-72157636676683316

- Road name with shield signed to the right of the shoulder, often at route terminus.  In the case of Interstate 580/MacArthur Freeway, that name is in common usage (and I want to include the Riverside Freeway/91 and San Diego's Cabrillo Freeway/163 in this category), but most others (San Gabriel River Freeway/605, Ronald Reagan Freeway/118, Santa Paula Freeway/126) generally are not.   Some are well known names that do not receive much signage at all (Junipero Serra Freeway/280, Nimitz Freeway/880).

- Finally, unsigned route name which is well known to the public.  In the Bay Area, that would be the Central Freeway, Eastshore Freeway, and San Francisco Skyway.  In SoCal, the Artesia Freeway MIGHT fit that, Foothill Freeway/210 certainly does.  I feel like the Montgomery Freeway name for old 101/current 5 from 94 to the border has been deprecated in common usage over time.