Quebec's Highways

[Stephane Dumas]

^ That's the bridge near Grand-Mère?

Yes, located where A-55 ends and the roundabout on the other side of the river.  There's also a older suspension bridge closer to downtown Grand-Mère.

[AsphaltPlanet]

It's this bridge, the one right at the end of A-55:


http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/PQ/R/155/R155_pont_GrandPiles_Sep11_24x16.jpg

[Chris]

I wonder what's so special about this bridge for Québec. Europe is full of them and they do not appear to be problematic. On the other hand Seattle has a major problem with a box girder bridge which isn't very old (1984).



Evidently they plan to add a cable-stayed bridge-like construction to this bridge.


They also did this with a box girder bridge in the Netherlands. This bridge was built in 1970 and reinforced in 2010 with a cable-stayed addition. However it carries a vastly different traffic volume than the one in Québec (184,000 vehicles per day).

[AsphaltPlanet]

^ I'm not an engineer, but my guess is the problem with these box girders is caused by salt intrusion through the bridge deck into the interior cables that keep the bridge erect. 

Ontario, like Quebec, has tons of box girder bridges, and in recent years the province has been retrofitting existing bridges with newly designed expansion joints to reduce the risk of a leaky expansion joint allowing saline water to leach into the structure and corrode the structural steel within the bridge.  I'd guess that's what has happened here to cause the premature deterioration of pont des Piles.

[Alps]

Quick question on QC 276 history. I get why it's been routed around St-Joseph-de-Beauce... or maybe I don't REALLY get it, but I can at least see a reason one might give... but how long ago was that done? Is it as old as the QC 173 bypass? What makes them more special than every other town that has a route on their main street?

[Stephane Dumas]

Quick question on QC 276 history. I get why it's been routed around St-Joseph-de-Beauce... or maybe I don't REALLY get it, but I can at least see a reason one might give... but how long ago was that done? Is it as old as the QC 173 bypass? What makes them more special than every other town that has a route on their main street?

The bypass might have been constructed in the late 1970s-early 1980s. QC-276 got some reroutes in St-Joseph-de-Beauce without big fanfare.

[webfil]

Quick question on QC 276 history. I get why it's been routed around St-Joseph-de-Beauce... or maybe I don't REALLY get it, but I can at least see a reason one might give... but how long ago was that done? Is it as old as the QC 173 bypass? What makes them more special than every other town that has a route on their main street?

The R-173 bypass around Saint-Joseph was staged; the first stretch to open was the northern one around 1975-1978 (topo map). The whole ROW would have been expropriated by then. In 1981, the agricultural land protection board had set the limit for the agricultural zone along the lot (agricultural zone map).

Plans in the 1986 feasibility study for a new bridge in Saint-Joseph show the bypass fully open around Saint-Joseph, and R-276 still routed along Côte Taschereau west of the bypass. Options for the location of a new bridge were multiple; rerouting was thus already in the cards, as the bridge carries R-276 east and west of the river (see edit note below).

In the 1990's, a series of accidents involving runaway trucks at the bottom of high-grade slopes in the core of towns along the Chaudière, most notably Vallée-Jonction (six in less than two years, next to a school and a restaurant, one including a 42,000-litre propane truck; Jan. 1990, Dec. 1990, May 1991, Aug. 1992) and Saint-Joseph (three in five years, including two beer trucks; 1992, Jun. 1994, Feb. 1997), as well as the southern extension of A-73 to R-276, stressed the need for a complete reorganization of the truck routes south of Sainte-Marie. When the A-73 was opened between Sainte-Marie and Vallée-Jonction, trucks were prohibited because of the perilous R-112/R-173 intersection. The opening of A-73 up to R-276 was a game-changer.

Even though it is a R-2xx, R-276 from A-73 to R-112 became a primary highway acting as the R-112 West truck route coming from A-73. Primary highways have higher standards (longitudinal and profile slopings, lane widths, shouldering vs ratings, design of intersections, etc.) in the MTQ road design manual. That could explain why the southeast leg of the Saint-Joseph bypass was preferred to the other one, as the intersection of Avenue du Palais Nord and R-173 is at the bottom of a 7 % slope following a subpar curve (75 km/h recommended speed). As R-276 is an alternate route for trucks heavier than 15 tonnes that are bound R-112 west from A-73 (see also this post), it seems logical that the truck route follows the path with the least risks of what it's substituting. The 1997 article I've linked states that the Côte Taschereau west of R-173 was then already prohibited for trucks. Following that crash, the mayor announced the construction of a concrete structure precluding the passage of trucks as well as a 4000 % surge in fines for law-breaking truckers. Trucks were therefore already banned on Côte Taschereau before the 1997 accident, so R-276 would have already been rerouted.

tl;dr
By my guesstimate, R-276 would have been rerouted at the construction of A-73 (1992) to avoid a tricky intersection in downtown Saint-Joseph, as it would have become R-112 truck route, which itself is known to be perilous because of a hazardous T intersection at the bottom of a hill.

EDIT : a new bridge in Saint-Joseph is under opportunity study, while the existing one is receiving palliative care. In other words, a new routing for R-276 is considered. The location of the new bridge is not yet known. The 1986 opportunity study and feasibility studies ultimately recommended a downtown bridge (either a renovation of the existing or a new one, next to it), but these propositions still had a high score and implied a R-112 or R-276 rerouting :

• New highway midway between Vallée and Saint-Joseph, running between R-112/R-276 intersection in Saint-Frédéric and A-73 in Saint-Joseph, along Route Cyrille-Giguère east of the Chaudière;
• Extension of the Saint-Joseph bypass in the northwest quadrant on an elevated highway between R-173 somewhere north of Avenue Robert-Cliche intersection, and Route des Fermes/Rang des Érables intersection.

The bridge is closed pretty much every year, as R-276 west of it is subject to floodings.

[Richard3]

I wonder what's so special about this bridge for Québec. Europe is full of them and they do not appear to be problematic. On the other hand Seattle has a major problem with a box girder bridge which isn't very old (1984).



Evidently they plan to add a cable-stayed bridge-like construction to this bridge.


They also did this with a box girder bridge in the Netherlands. This bridge was built in 1970 and reinforced in 2010 with a cable-stayed addition. However it carries a vastly different traffic volume than the one in Québec (184,000 vehicles per day).

This bridge was built in 1978, and is problematic since the beginning. Shortly after its opening to traffic, about a hundred sensors were installed to monitor the bridge 24/7, and some load tests were done every now and then.  It's after some of those tests, done in November 2021, and monitoring reports showing that the bridge deteriorates faster than expected, that the MTQ decided to close the bridge until the repair to be completed, expected by the end of 2022.

Meanwhile, building of the replacement bridge, a bit downstream from the actual one, and planned since June 2020, will start with some tree cutting this year, and the construction of the bridge itself is figured to start on spring of 2023, in order to be completed in 2025.

[Stephane Dumas]

Take it with a pinch of salt, but some guys already jumped the gun to mention the A-13/Chomedey autoroute extension.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.69182,-73.96391&z=14&t=M

In case that edit dissapear, it's archived on the following link. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/EHSCT

[Alps]

Take it with a pinch of salt, but some guys already jumped the gun to mention the A-13/Chomedey autoroute extension.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.69182,-73.96391&z=14&t=M

In case that edit dissapear, it's archived on the following link. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/EHSCT

What are the odds this is happening at all, or is this just a fanperson?

[Stephane Dumas]

Take it with a pinch of salt, but some guys already jumped the gun to mention the A-13/Chomedey autoroute extension.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.69182,-73.96391&z=14&t=M

In case that edit dissapear, it's archived on the following link. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/EHSCT

What are the odds this is happening at all, or is this just a fanperson?

I suspect then it might be the idea of a fanperson.

[andrepoiy]

It's probably fictional, especially that bend to avoid the airport??? I don't think a real traffic engineer would do that

[froggie]

The individual who made that change looks to have the OSM handle of "magic 2001", and just started yesterday with a number of edits across southern Quebec.  I've already reverted one of their edits because (s)he was showing the physically completed parts of the A-35/QC 133 interchange near Saint Sebastien as open even though the roadway to the south isn't even close to completed yet.

[LilianaUwU]

Take it with a pinch of salt, but some guys already jumped the gun to mention the A-13/Chomedey autoroute extension.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.69182,-73.96391&z=14&t=M

In case that edit dissapear, it's archived on the following link. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/EHSCT

What are the odds this is happening at all, or is this just a fanperson?

With Mirabel being closed, the chances of A-13 being built to its fullest extent are slim to none.

[cbeach40]

Take it with a pinch of salt, but some guys already jumped the gun to mention the A-13/Chomedey autoroute extension.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=45.69182,-73.96391&z=14&t=M

In case that edit dissapear, it's archived on the following link. https://ghostarchive.org/archive/EHSCT

What are the odds this is happening at all, or is this just a fanperson?

With Mirabel being closed, the chances of A-13 being built to its fullest extent are slim to none.

As an airport traffic generator, but to open up suburban development and industrial lands in that vicinity I wouldn't bet against it. But agreed, definitely not the impetus it had 40 years ago.

The interchange with A50, not great looking. From an infrastructure porn perspective, would love to see a hypothetical extension tied into the A15&A50 interchange and make that all the more complex.

[webfil]

The individual who made that change looks to have the OSM handle of "magic 2001", and just started yesterday with a number of edits across southern Quebec.  I've already reverted one of their edits because (s)he was showing the physically completed parts of the A-35/QC 133 interchange near Saint Sebastien as open even though the roadway to the south isn't even close to completed yet.

The person who drawn this is a problematic OSM and Wikipedia editor known as the "all user" (in reference to their edit comments), going all the way to vandalize maps and articles with implausible fantasy.

The routing shown is highly improbable, as the judicious choice for a new expressway a mere 2 km west of A-15 would have been no expressway at all – adding capacity to A-15 would have divided  the pricetag by 5.  The projected A-13 routing is far more East-West, with connection to actual A-50 west of Sainte-Scholastique. Some of the land reserved for an eventual extension is still property of the MTQ, but some have been retrocessed.

YMX is not even close from closing. It still sees three dozens of movements daily, but that's 100% freight or Bombardier servicing/delivery – for Aéroports de Montréal, that is good revenue for a minimal expense. But FedEx vans and Bombardier parts do not justify a whole new highway, we agree on that. The justification for A-13 extension would be something like providing capacity on A-50/A-15/A-640, channeling the growth of Mirabel (+21% since 2016) and Lachute (+10%).

[froggie]

^ Regarding the map you posted, was there a proposal to extend A-50 east of A-15?  Where would it have gone?

[webfil]

^ Regarding the map you posted, was there a proposal to extend A-50 east of A-15?  Where would it have gone?

The 1971 numbering plan from Ministère de la Voirie shows it reaching as easterly as Saint-Gabriel-de-Brandon, following the path of R-158 (Saint-Lin—Laurentides, Saint-Esprit, Saint-Jacques, Crabtree, Joliette), then R-131 (Notre-Dame-des-Prairies, Saint-Félix-de-Valois) and ultimately – I kid you not – R-348 (Saint-Cléophas, Saint-Gabriel).

I've heard about some other proposed termini (A-40 near Berthierville, A-40/A-51 near Lanoraie, even A-55 near Shawinigan), but I have yet to see credible evidence of those, as they would duplicate closely or loosely A-40 or A-31.

R-158 between A-25 and A-31 is currently in the process of being four-laned, with some added interchanges, although I highly doubt it will bear A-50, albeit close to a revival.

[webny99]

Question for those of you from Quebec or anyone else who may know: On a trip to the Montreal area about a decade ago, I seem to remember driving on a "reversed" highway, where the carriageways flipped and traffic going the other way was on the right instead of the left.

Does anyone know where this might be? I thought it was somewhere between the airport and downtown Montreal, but I can't seem to find it. Now I'm questioning whether it was just a temporary alignment for a construction project or perhaps even just a figment of my imagination? I'd be glad for any thoughts/insight - thanks!

[7/8]

Question for those of you from Quebec or anyone else who may know: On a trip to the Montreal area about a decade ago, I seem to remember driving on a "reversed" highway, where the carriageways flipped and traffic going the other way was on the right instead of the left.

Does anyone know where this might be? I thought it was somewhere between the airport and downtown Montreal, but I can't seem to find it. Now I'm questioning whether it was just a temporary alignment for a construction project or perhaps even just a figment of my imagination? I'd be glad for any thoughts/insight - thanks!

I believe this would've been A-20 west of A-15 (the Turcot interchange). The interchange was recently redone, which took away the flipped carriageways on A-20.

[webny99]

I believe this would've been A-20 west of A-15 (the Turcot interchange). The interchange was recently redone, which took away the flipped carriageways on A-20.

Thanks, I think you're right! Wow, that was a massive project. My visit would have been roughly 2009 or so, before it started. I remembered driving through it at night, and it was so far back in my memory that I was starting to wonder if it was a dream, but that makes more sense now! 

[andrepoiy]

Question for those of you from Quebec or anyone else who may know: On a trip to the Montreal area about a decade ago, I seem to remember driving on a "reversed" highway, where the carriageways flipped and traffic going the other way was on the right instead of the left.

Does anyone know where this might be? I thought it was somewhere between the airport and downtown Montreal, but I can't seem to find it. Now I'm questioning whether it was just a temporary alignment for a construction project or perhaps even just a figment of my imagination? I'd be glad for any thoughts/insight - thanks!

I believe this would've been A-20 west of A-15 (the Turcot interchange). The interchange was recently redone, which took away the flipped carriageways on A-20.

Now I'm intrigued. Does anyone have any old map of the former Turcot Interchange?

[Stephane Dumas]

Question for those of you from Quebec or anyone else who may know: On a trip to the Montreal area about a decade ago, I seem to remember driving on a "reversed" highway, where the carriageways flipped and traffic going the other way was on the right instead of the left.

Does anyone know where this might be? I thought it was somewhere between the airport and downtown Montreal, but I can't seem to find it. Now I'm questioning whether it was just a temporary alignment for a construction project or perhaps even just a figment of my imagination? I'd be glad for any thoughts/insight - thanks!

I believe this would've been A-20 west of A-15 (the Turcot interchange). The interchange was recently redone, which took away the flipped carriageways on A-20.

Now I'm intrigued. Does anyone have any old map of the former Turcot Interchange?

Not a map, but I spotted some vintage photos on these links.
https://expolounge.blogspot.com/2007/11/turcot-interchange.html
https://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/turcot-interchange
http://www.vanishingmontreal.com/2011/10/turcot-interchange-saint-henri.html
https://dailyhive.com/montreal/turcot-interchange-differences-fifteen-years-photos

[webfil]

Question for those of you from Quebec or anyone else who may know: On a trip to the Montreal area about a decade ago, I seem to remember driving on a "reversed" highway, where the carriageways flipped and traffic going the other way was on the right instead of the left.

Does anyone know where this might be? I thought it was somewhere between the airport and downtown Montreal, but I can't seem to find it. Now I'm questioning whether it was just a temporary alignment for a construction project or perhaps even just a figment of my imagination? I'd be glad for any thoughts/insight - thanks!

I believe this would've been A-20 west of A-15 (the Turcot interchange). The interchange was recently redone, which took away the flipped carriageways on A-20.

Now I'm intrigued. Does anyone have any old map of the former Turcot Interchange?

• Before construction (1963)
• After construction (1971) (note the stub heading northeast; that's provision for former A-720)
• Before reconstruction (2003)

I will try to post some vintage aerials later.

[webfil]

I will try to post some vintage aerials later.

Here are some aerials from 1969 (TIFF, 70 MB each) :

• http://depot.ville.montreal.qc.ca/vues-aeriennes-1969/VM97-3_09_1969-057.TIF
• http://depot.ville.montreal.qc.ca/vues-aeriennes-1969/VM97-3_09_1969-058.TIF