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Author Topic: I-69 in KY  (Read 342584 times)

english si

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #350 on: January 29, 2014, 11:44:03 AM »

I realise that many of the same points were made while I was compiling this post...
For the sake of equal comparison to the situation we're talking about, filter that list of examples to just the ones where:

- only 1 interstate route uses the interchange
- said interstate is a 2di that does not terminate at the interchange
- the through routing of said interstate changes freeways at the interchange, with one direction of travel needing to use a loop ramp to stay on said interstate
I-55 in Memphis.

However, especially given the nature of Kentucky's Parkways (and the looming presence of future I-66), your first point isn't great for comparisons. There's little reason why the other arms of the cloverleaf at Nortonville aren't interstates, other than history. If Kentucky got AASHTO & FHWA approval for I-66, or signed the bottom half of the Pennyrile as I-x69 or I-x24, surely then the cloverleaf's loop ramps wouldn't matter.

The I-24/Purchase Pkwy junction needing a flyover ramp due to being the mainline of an interstate is more odd. If it is justified by the volume of turning traffic, or safety reasons, then great. However there are many places where an interstate turns off of (or onto) another via a loop ramp, and pointless work shouldn't be undertaken simply due to numbering.
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Grzrd

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #351 on: February 27, 2014, 09:09:26 AM »

This TV video reports that I-69 shields may go up along the Pennyrile as soon as two years from now and that a commitment to making upgrades, instead of completion of upgrades, will be sufficient for the I-69 signage:

Quote
Kentucky Transportation officials say they're hopeful the Pennyrile Parkway will officially become I-69 sooner than you think. Officials say the I-69 signs could go up as soon as two years from now.
Several exit upgrades are on the governor's six year highway plan. Work has already started at the intersection of the Pennyrile and Western Kentucky Parkway just south of Madisonville.
"They don't have to have these projects completed to get commitment to hang the shields up," said Brad Schneider of Kyndle. "The 55 miles of the Western Kentucky Parkway that's already shielded as I-69, not all the improvements were done before federal highways allowed Kentucky to put the shields up."
Officials say more than $160 million will be spent this year on several I-69 upgrades in Henderson County, Webster County, and Hancock County.

Kyndle is a new organization born of the merger of the Henderson Chamber of Commerce and the Northwest Kentucky Forward regional economic development organization:

http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/dec/20/merger-of-chamber-nwkf-into-kyndle-now-official/
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Pete from Boston

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #352 on: February 27, 2014, 09:15:15 AM »

I realise that many of the same points were made while I was compiling this post...
For the sake of equal comparison to the situation we're talking about, filter that list of examples to just the ones where:

- only 1 interstate route uses the interchange
- said interstate is a 2di that does not terminate at the interchange
- the through routing of said interstate changes freeways at the interchange, with one direction of travel needing to use a loop ramp to stay on said interstate
I-55 in Memphis.

However, especially given the nature of Kentucky's Parkways (and the looming presence of future I-66), your first point isn't great for comparisons. There's little reason why the other arms of the cloverleaf at Nortonville aren't interstates, other than history. If Kentucky got AASHTO & FHWA approval for I-66, or signed the bottom half of the Pennyrile as I-x69 or I-x24, surely then the cloverleaf's loop ramps wouldn't matter.

It's not like there's no precedent.  Millions of folks have driven off an uncompleted 95 onto a numberless route into NJ for years without ever making a turn.  The through routing of the NJ Turnpike will continue on a non-Interstate even once the 95 mess is sorted out and that route exits the Turnpike.

Did I edit this correctly? ~S
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 07:18:19 PM by Alps »
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Pete from Boston

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #353 on: March 01, 2014, 01:16:49 AM »


It's not like there's no precedent.  Millions of folks have driven off an uncompleted 95 onto a numberless route into NJ for years without ever making a turn.  The through routing of the NJ Turnpike will continue on a non-Interstate even once the 95 mess is sorted out and that route exits the Turnpike.

Did I edit this correctly? ~S

I think so.  I'm not sure what I actually submitted but this reads to say what I meant to. 
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Alps

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #354 on: March 02, 2014, 12:25:35 AM »


It's not like there's no precedent.  Millions of folks have driven off an uncompleted 95 onto a numberless route into NJ for years without ever making a turn.  The through routing of the NJ Turnpike will continue on a non-Interstate even once the 95 mess is sorted out and that route exits the Turnpike.

Did I edit this correctly? ~S

I think so.  I'm not sure what I actually submitted but this reads to say what I meant to. 
You had two posts, both had the same first sentence, but each had a different second sentence, so I just amalgamated them into a paragraph.

Pete from Boston

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #355 on: March 02, 2014, 08:51:21 AM »



It's not like there's no precedent.  Millions of folks have driven off an uncompleted 95 onto a numberless route into NJ for years without ever making a turn.  The through routing of the NJ Turnpike will continue on a non-Interstate even once the 95 mess is sorted out and that route exits the Turnpike.

Did I edit this correctly? ~S

I think so.  I'm not sure what I actually submitted but this reads to say what I meant to. 
You had two posts, both had the same first sentence, but each had a different second sentence, so I just amalgamated them into a paragraph.

Ah, tapatalk hiccup.  Didn't seem to post at first.  Thanks.
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Anthony_JK

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #356 on: March 02, 2014, 09:28:20 AM »

I realise that many of the same points were made while I was compiling this post...
For the sake of equal comparison to the situation we're talking about, filter that list of examples to just the ones where:

- only 1 interstate route uses the interchange
- said interstate is a 2di that does not terminate at the interchange
- the through routing of said interstate changes freeways at the interchange, with one direction of travel needing to use a loop ramp to stay on said interstate
I-55 in Memphis.

Apparently, TnDOT doesn't see it your way regarding I-55 in Memphis.

http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i55/default.htm (I-55/Riverside Dr./E. E. Crump Interchange Upgrade)

Requiring major Interstate traffic to be forced to negotiate single-lane loops hardly counts as "feasible" in my book.
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Pete from Boston

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #357 on: March 02, 2014, 09:37:53 AM »


I realise that many of the same points were made while I was compiling this post...
For the sake of equal comparison to the situation we're talking about, filter that list of examples to just the ones where:

- only 1 interstate route uses the interchange
- said interstate is a 2di that does not terminate at the interchange
- the through routing of said interstate changes freeways at the interchange, with one direction of travel needing to use a loop ramp to stay on said interstate
I-55 in Memphis.

Apparently, TnDOT doesn't see it your way regarding I-55 in Memphis.

http://www.tdot.state.tn.us/i55/default.htm (I-55/Riverside Dr./E. E. Crump Interchange Upgrade)

Requiring major Interstate traffic to be forced to negotiate single-lane loops hardly counts as "feasible" in my book.

Massachusetts disagrees.

http://goo.gl/maps/gI5b6
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NE2

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #358 on: March 02, 2014, 03:27:37 PM »

Mississippi disagrees wrt I-69 at I-55.
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english si

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #359 on: March 02, 2014, 05:07:46 PM »

Apparently, TnDOT doesn't see it your way regarding I-55 in Memphis.
really? I-55 is incomplete due to that junction?

They are in agreement with me - crappy TOTSOs, while they should be sorted eventually, should not be barriers to Interstate designations going through the interchange, contra KDOT...
Quote
Requiring major Interstate traffic to be forced to negotiate single-lane loops hardly counts as "feasible" in my book.
suggest you look up the word "feasible". You meant "sensible".

and arguably for the junction in KY, it is sensible, given that traffic volumes are light, turning traffic small and the money can be put to better use currently, like helping to pay for the Bridge over the Ohio that would finish the I-69 corridor in Kentucky to freeway-standard, even if some things aren't quite Interstate standard, and some loop ramps are needed to follow the route.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 05:10:50 PM by english si »
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lordsutch

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #360 on: March 02, 2014, 05:57:00 PM »

Mississippi disagrees wrt I-69 at I-55.

I-55 has C/D lanes and the interchange is much newer (with, I believe, less tight ramps); plus the likely directional split of traffic is different, you have a much later design year in play, and when FHWA signed off on the interchange, the loop routing for I-69 proper via SIU 9 was still a possibility.

But other than that, exactly the same. :)
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NE2

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #361 on: March 02, 2014, 06:17:04 PM »

Mississippi disagrees wrt I-69 at I-55.
I-55 has C/D lanes and the interchange is much newer (with, I believe, less tight ramps)
At best the ramps are very slightly larger.
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Anthony_JK

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #362 on: March 05, 2014, 01:21:34 AM »

Apparently, TnDOT doesn't see it your way regarding I-55 in Memphis.
really? I-55 is incomplete due to that junction?

They are in agreement with me - crappy TOTSOs, while they should be sorted eventually, should not be barriers to Interstate designations going through the interchange, contra KDOT...
Quote
Requiring major Interstate traffic to be forced to negotiate single-lane loops hardly counts as "feasible" in my book.
suggest you look up the word "feasible". You meant "sensible".

and arguably for the junction in KY, it is sensible, given that traffic volumes are light, turning traffic small and the money can be put to better use currently, like helping to pay for the Bridge over the Ohio that would finish the I-69 corridor in Kentucky to freeway-standard, even if some things aren't quite Interstate standard, and some loop ramps are needed to follow the route.


The point is that TnDOT doesn't see your point that Interstate highways should have to go through loop ramps or TOTSO's; which is why they are reworking that interchange the way they are.

What do you have against simply adding a directional ramp?? It's not like I'm proposing converting that interchange to a 5-level full stack, right?

If the I-69 corridor is that necessary, then it should be done to full standards and funded adequately, not patchworked with short-term gimmicks.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #363 on: March 05, 2014, 02:35:30 PM »

Unless something totally unforeseen happens, even with the signing of I-69 and the construction of a direct ramp, the majority of the through traffic eastbound on the WK Parkway is going to stay on the WK and not exit onto the northbound Pennyrile.
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Captain Jack

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #364 on: March 05, 2014, 05:51:22 PM »

Unless something totally unforeseen happens, even with the signing of I-69 and the construction of a direct ramp, the majority of the through traffic eastbound on the WK Parkway is going to stay on the WK and not exit onto the northbound Pennyrile.

Hb,

Do you know if that is factual? I am not picking at you, but my guess is that now, about the same number of people exit northbound as go straight on the WK, especially in the warmer months. A lot of people from Evansville-Henderson-Owensboro hang out at the lakes. There really isn't anything sizeable on the WK, unless you are considering traffic that would eventually end up in Louisville or Lexington, which I can't think is that sizeable of a traffic count.

I also believe that once the interstate is designated and the ramps reconfigured, the majority of traffic on the Pennyrile/69 section will have come from the Pennyrile South section and not the WK/69. Evansville-Hopkinsville-Nashville will still be a busier route than Evansville-Memphis.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #365 on: March 05, 2014, 08:02:12 PM »

Do you know if that is factual? I am not picking at you, but my guess is that now, about the same number of people exit northbound as go straight on the WK, especially in the warmer months. A lot of people from Evansville-Henderson-Owensboro hang out at the lakes. There really isn't anything sizeable on the WK, unless you are considering traffic that would eventually end up in Louisville or Lexington, which I can't think is that sizeable of a traffic count.

I also believe that once the interstate is designated and the ramps reconfigured, the majority of traffic on the Pennyrile/69 section will have come from the Pennyrile South section and not the WK/69. Evansville-Hopkinsville-Nashville will still be a busier route than Evansville-Memphis.

It's just a guess on my part, and I don't know traffic counts for the ramps to know exactly how much traffic uses each ramp or stays straight.
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hbelkins

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #366 on: May 02, 2014, 09:19:18 PM »

They're getting ready to do a traffic shift on the Pennyrile to accommodate the reconstruction of the interchange.

https://www.facebook.com/KYTCDistrict2/posts/681271918611458?stream_ref=10

Quote

Traffic ADVISORY

A contractor for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) is continuing to ramp up work to upgrade the Interstate 69 Interchange with the Breathitt-Pennyrile Parkway and the Wendell Ford-Western Kentucky Parkway south of Madisonville in Hopkins County. To facilitate this increased level of activity the contractor plans to restrict traffic to one lane in each direction running along the Pennyrile Parkway from mile point 34.3 to mile point 35.1 starting next week.

This lane restriction with two-way traffic running on the southbound lanes will include a 15 ft. MAXIMUM LOAD WIDTH. There will be a strictly enforced 55 mile per hour speed limit in this work zone with an enhanced enforcement presence.

Motorists who regularly travel through the I-69/Pennyrile Pkwy/Western Kentucky Pkwy Interchange south of Madisonville may have already noticed construction work on crossovers in this work zone. Once those crossovers are completed, all traffic will move to the southbound lanes with two-way traffic. The contractor plans to use a median barrier wall along this restricted section for about 8/10ths of a mile.

The $29 million design-build contract was awarded to the Rogers Group, Inc., and QK4 Inc., with an expected completion date in May of 2015.

Kentucky now has 55 miles of I-69. The route follows I-24 for 17 miles from The Julian Carroll-Purchase Parkway at Calvert City to Eddyville. I-69 then runs for 38 miles along the former Wendell Ford-Western Kentucky Parkway from Eddyville to the Pennyrile Parkway near Madisonville.
The existing I-69/Pennyrile Parkway cloverleaf requires motorists to slow to about 45 miles per hour to negotiate the ramps through the interchange. The new arrangement will allow motorists to make the transition between the west and north legs of the interchange at normal highway speeds.
The interchange project in Hopkins County is among about 10 major projects scheduled over the next 2 to 3 years aimed at extended I-69 northward along the Pennyrile toward Henderson and southward along the Purchase Parkway toward Fulton. I-69 will eventually cover about 150 miles through Kentucky.

View of what the interchange will look like:

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #367 on: May 02, 2014, 10:01:29 PM »

They're getting ready to do a traffic shift on the Pennyrile to accommodate the reconstruction of the interchange.

https://www.facebook.com/KYTCDistrict2/posts/681271918611458?stream_ref=10

Quote

Traffic ADVISORY

A contractor for the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC) is continuing to ramp up work to upgrade the Interstate 69 Interchange with the Breathitt-Pennyrile Parkway and the Wendell Ford-Western Kentucky Parkway south of Madisonville in Hopkins County. To facilitate this increased level of activity the contractor plans to restrict traffic to one lane in each direction running along the Pennyrile Parkway from mile point 34.3 to mile point 35.1 starting next week.

This lane restriction with two-way traffic running on the southbound lanes will include a 15 ft. MAXIMUM LOAD WIDTH. There will be a strictly enforced 55 mile per hour speed limit in this work zone with an enhanced enforcement presence.

Motorists who regularly travel through the I-69/Pennyrile Pkwy/Western Kentucky Pkwy Interchange south of Madisonville may have already noticed construction work on crossovers in this work zone. Once those crossovers are completed, all traffic will move to the southbound lanes with two-way traffic. The contractor plans to use a median barrier wall along this restricted section for about 8/10ths of a mile.

The $29 million design-build contract was awarded to the Rogers Group, Inc., and QK4 Inc., with an expected completion date in May of 2015.

Kentucky now has 55 miles of I-69. The route follows I-24 for 17 miles from The Julian Carroll-Purchase Parkway at Calvert City to Eddyville. I-69 then runs for 38 miles along the former Wendell Ford-Western Kentucky Parkway from Eddyville to the Pennyrile Parkway near Madisonville.
The existing I-69/Pennyrile Parkway cloverleaf requires motorists to slow to about 45 miles per hour to negotiate the ramps through the interchange. The new arrangement will allow motorists to make the transition between the west and north legs of the interchange at normal highway speeds.
The interchange project in Hopkins County is among about 10 major projects scheduled over the next 2 to 3 years aimed at extended I-69 northward along the Pennyrile toward Henderson and southward along the Purchase Parkway toward Fulton. I-69 will eventually cover about 150 miles through Kentucky.

View of what the interchange will look like:



Why don't they just leave it alone? Isn't the cloverleaf good enough?
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #368 on: May 02, 2014, 10:58:53 PM »

no, the current interchange is not good enough. 
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Captain Jack

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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #369 on: May 02, 2014, 11:37:42 PM »

Was through there last week. They have done a lot of tree clearing and grading already.

I agree that it is needed. Through traffic on an interstate shouldn't have to use a single lane cloverleaf ramp.
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #370 on: May 03, 2014, 05:51:46 AM »

I actually traveled that way (along all of what will be I-69 in Kentucky) yesterday and was surprised to see that they were actually building that interchange. I assume that was what I saw. Speaking of tree clearing, it appeared that there were a lot of trees cleared along the former Western Kentucky Parkway (the stretch that is now I-69.) Is having trees cleared out a certain distance from the road a standard for a highway to be an interstate?
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #371 on: May 03, 2014, 06:41:34 PM »

It might have been done to maintain the clear zone along 69.
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #372 on: May 03, 2014, 11:23:39 PM »

Why does the SB 69 split involve a left exit?  Do they know that through traffic going straight on the parkway will be the more heavily travelled ramp.
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #373 on: May 04, 2014, 08:57:08 AM »

I have not seen the traffic forecasts, but 2 points in response to last post - today the traffic probably does favor the old WK parkway through movement, but for the design year (usually 20 years from opening year) the forecasts very likely favor I-69 movements.  Second point - whatever the traffic forecasts are, the point of the reconfiguration is to make I-69 the through route through the interchange.  The I-69 movement will not be considered an "exit".  The traffic continuing on the parkways will use new right-hand exits.
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Re: I-69 in KY
« Reply #374 on: May 04, 2014, 09:09:09 AM »

Also, it would not be beyond my realm of expectation to someday see the Pennyrile from there to I-24 becoming a full interstate (cough, cough, I-41, cough), so IMHO, such a split is appropriate.  Yes, it now does go through as a full, although not quite fully interstate-standard, freeway.

Mike
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