Vermont

[jcroyer80]

Meant to post this the other day but there was a good article in the Free Press about traffic congestion in Chittenden County and various projects Vtrans is working on or planning.  One of the more interesting nuggets was that in 2016 the Chittenden County Regional Planning Comission will begin the analysis to expand Interstate 89 to 3 lanes in both directions between Exit 12 (Williston) and Exit 17 (Colchester/Islands/Milton).  As someone who drives this route daily I can agree that this project is way overdue (as is the "12b" exit at Route 116 and/or a full interchange at Exit 13).

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/2014/09/15/vtrendlines-chittenden-county-traffic/15514571/

[shadyjay]

It's too bad that the state chose the Burlington-Charlotte corridor to initiate a trial (later cancelled) commuter rail service.  What they should've done was tried it on the Montpelier-Burlington section.  Then if all goes well, you could expand it up to St Albans area.  Not much would be required, either, as the main is already good for 59.  Maybe install a signal system to get 79 mph, overhaul between Essex Jct and Burlington (that section is 10 mph), reactivate some passing sidings, and add a few stations. 

As many would say, it's not just those driving in between Montpelier, Burlington, and intermediate points... it's also those driving in from Underhill to the east and Hinesburg to the south.  Hinesburg traffic backs up Route 116 daily.  What's the solution there?  Bus service? 

Maybe a solution is expanded park & ride facilities.  They just finished expanding the Richmond lot but it seems to be full again.  I don't know how many spaces they added - I don't think it was that many.  It's kind of restricted by its site as far as expansion, sitting in between US 2 and I-89.

[froggie]

I don't think 89 needs 3 lanes each way.  Traffic may be bad but it isn't THAT bad.  At most, all that's needed is some auxiliary lanes between Exits 13, 14, and 15.

There are far worse areas than 89.  2A near Williston's "retail hell" is also "traffic hell".  Williston Rd and Main St (basically 2 through South Burlington and Burlington) are also bad....but options there are much more limited due to limited street width.

As for commuter rail service, I was under the impression that the Burlington-Charlotte rail service was because VTrans was rebuilding Shelburne Rd at the time.

[shadyjay]

I don't think 89 needs 3 lanes each way.  Traffic may be bad but it isn't THAT bad.  At most, all that's needed is some auxiliary lanes between Exits 13, 14, and 15.

Definitely agree that only auxiliary lanes are needed.  Far less costly than additional full-blown travel lanes.  Between Exits 13 & 14, auxiliary lanes would definitely help, especially northbound.  As for between Exits 14 & 15, the Winooski River Bridge is already 3 lanes in each direction, so you'd have about a mile section to widen there.

There are far worse areas than 89.  2A near Williston's "retail hell" is also "traffic hell".  Williston Rd and Main St (basically 2 through South Burlington and Burlington) are also bad....but options there are much more limited due to limited street width.

No disagreements there.  I think Williston Road would benefit with 2 lanes each way plus a center turning lane, or even better, a median divider with designated u-turns (sort of like VT 15 just to the north).  There's a heck of a lot of turning traffic which backs up traffic. 

As for Route 2A by Taft Corner (aka "retail hell"), if they ever get around to building the rest of the Circ, it would take all that Essex Junction-bound traffic off that stretch.  But for some reason, the circ is still shelved.  Maybe we'll see it after the "Southern Connector" is built.  That may solve some of the Shelburne Road problem, as I-189 backs up onto the "Exit 1 ramp" with traffic bound for Rt 7 North.

As for commuter rail service, I was under the impression that the Burlington-Charlotte rail service was because VTrans was rebuilding Shelburne Rd at the time.

Yes it was, but the service was discontinued by then-Gov Douglas just as the Shelburne Road project was starting.

[jcroyer80]

I don't think 89 needs 3 lanes each way.  Traffic may be bad but it isn't THAT bad.  At most, all that's needed is some auxiliary lanes between Exits 13, 14, and 15.

There are far worse areas than 89.  2A near Williston's "retail hell" is also "traffic hell".  Williston Rd and Main St (basically 2 through South Burlington and Burlington) are also bad....but options there are much more limited due to limited street width.

As for commuter rail service, I was under the impression that the Burlington-Charlotte rail service was because VTrans was rebuilding Shelburne Rd at the time.

I agree... to a point.  Sitting in traffic on 89 every day (NB & SB) you can clearly see the need for more capacity.  Also remember this is just the analysis so any buildout would be years down the road, if ever.  Colchester (which is getting the diverging diamond at exit 16) is making a big push to develop Severence Corners which will only increase the amount of traffic at exit 16 in the future.  Traffic on 89SB in the morning tends to back up from 14 past the Winooski River Bridge and god forbid you get an accident or snowstorm. The quickest solution as you state would aux lanes from 13 to 15 with third lane (NB) over bridge at exit 15 being an exit only lane.

As for 2A in Williston, if you go to the CCRPC webiste you can see the Circ alternative plans for the area.  Most promising is the plan to build additional side streets in the area (in Taft Corners and on the Walmart/Home Depot side) to keep traffic off of 2A.  As for the Circ, it has been cancelled and will never be built.  The money is being dispersed to the Circ Alternative projects in 3 phases.  Phases I and II have already been awarded funds and are in the scoping stages. 

Commuter Rail from Charlotte to Burlington was cancelled due to low ridership and high cost and as shadyjay rightly mentions, before the massive rebuilding of Shelburne Road ever began.

A new park and ride is to be built soon at exit 12 in Williston.  The plan is for the Link Express to stop there in addition to the Richmond park and ride which has no more capacity to expand.

[hotdogPi]

(Not sure where else to post this.)

I-89 crosses VT 62, 63, 64, 65, and 66 in order. Is this intentional?

[yakra]

Not sure about the I-89 part, but I bet the number clustering was intentional, with the routes designated at about the same time.

[Alex]

(Not sure where else to post this.)

I-89 crosses VT 62, 63, 64, 65, and 66 in order. Is this intentional?

The state based threads are appropriate for random questions such as this. 

[shadyjay]

(Not sure where else to post this.)

I-89 crosses VT 62, 63, 64, 65, and 66 in order. Is this intentional?

I always thought that was kinda cool.... and wanted to route US 2 back onto State Street through Montpelier (it's already Business-2 IIRC), then resign what is now US 2 between Bailey Ave and VT 12 as VT 61.  Just so you'd have 66-65-64-63-62-61.  But outside of that "cool factor" that only people like us on here would notice, it'd serve no useful purpose.

[Alps]

That talk of 6x highways reminds me how I've always found the New England route numbering interesting.
Single and low double-digits - Part of the New England route numbering system, major routes
1xx three-digits - Major routes, not part of the system
Other single and double-digit numbers, some of which are low - Minor routes

[shadyjay]

A couple of updates from southern Vermont:

"Some" progress is being made on the I-91 Guilford to Rockingham sign replacement.  Markers are up where footings for new signs will be placed.  A couple of completed footings are visible around Brattleboro.  No actual new signs yet.  It will be interesting to see how they will sign Exits 2 and 3, whether they will keep the present signing which implies a VT 9 concurrency.  I believe the contract only includes up to before Exit 7 (Springfield), so that overhead is safe for now.  But the Exit 4 button copy gore sign SB is indeed marked for replacement.

The new weigh station NB at the Mass state line is complete and "open".  It's gated though so no parking by anyone when the facility is closed.  Signs advertise the weigh station just before the border in Mass. as well.

[froggie]

No disagreements there.  I think Williston Road would benefit with 2 lanes each way plus a center turning lane, or even better, a median divider with designated u-turns (sort of like VT 15 just to the north).  There's a heck of a lot of turning traffic which backs up traffic.

The problem with Williston Rd is that any such change would effectively require a full reconstruction and additional right-of-way for most of the corridor.  For that reason, I just don't see it happening.

As for 2A in Williston, if you go to the CCRPC webiste you can see the Circ alternative plans for the area.  Most promising is the plan to build additional side streets in the area (in Taft Corners and on the Walmart/Home Depot side) to keep traffic off of 2A.

Very familiar with the CCRPC website and the Circ alternative proposals.  But the additional side streets in Williston will still not cover the fact that there is a lot of traffic congestion at the 2A/89 interchange.  Which is why there are some proposals for a Diverging Diamond at Exit 12 as well.

Also, looking at the Circ alts, the Colchester part is certainly dead, but it appears that CCRPC still left open the possibility of connecting 289 to 89 in Williston.  IMO, if the state wants to keep IBM or whatever takes IBM's place, they'll need to build that connection.  2A just won't cut it, no matter how many improvements they make, as the "retail hell" will just consume whatever improvements they manage.

[froggie]

Regarding VT 62-66, it does appear that this numbering was intentional, but it should be noted that they had different origins and timeframes:

VT 62:  originated in 1959 as the "Berlin State Highway", connecting the airport to US 302 via the steep 2-lane connector that splits off today's VT 62 on top of the ridge.  The "Berlin Interstate Connector" was built along with I-89 ca. 1970, but doesn't appear to have been given a number at first.  The first reference to the VT 62 route number I've been able to find is when the connector into downtown Barre was built ca. 1974.

VT 63:  built as the "South Barre Access Road" or "South Barre State Highway" in conjunction with construction of I-89, opening around the same time (ca. 1970).  Does not appear to have been numbered until sometime between 1977 and 1980.

VT 64:  originated as the "Northfield-Williamstown State Highway", added ca. 1970 (same timeframe as I-89 opening).  Does not appear to have been numbered until sometime between 1980 and 1983.

VT 65:  originated in 1937 as the "Brookfield State Highway" connecting the village to VT 12 via the Floating Bridge.  It was extended east to VT 14 in 1953, but didn't receive the VT 65 number until sometime between 1976 and 1982.

VT 66:  originated in 1964 as the "Randolph State Highway".  Numbered as VT 66 ca. 1971 (might have also been 1970).

[jcroyer80]

No disagreements there.  I think Williston Road would benefit with 2 lanes each way plus a center turning lane, or even better, a median divider with designated u-turns (sort of like VT 15 just to the north).  There's a heck of a lot of turning traffic which backs up traffic.

The problem with Williston Rd is that any such change would effectively require a full reconstruction and additional right-of-way for most of the corridor.  For that reason, I just don't see it happening.

As for 2A in Williston, if you go to the CCRPC webiste you can see the Circ alternative plans for the area.  Most promising is the plan to build additional side streets in the area (in Taft Corners and on the Walmart/Home Depot side) to keep traffic off of 2A.

Very familiar with the CCRPC website and the Circ alternative proposals.  But the additional side streets in Williston will still not cover the fact that there is a lot of traffic congestion at the 2A/89 interchange.  Which is why there are some proposals for a Diverging Diamond at Exit 12 as well.

Also, looking at the Circ alts, the Colchester part is certainly dead, but it appears that CCRPC still left open the possibility of connecting 289 to 89 in Williston.  IMO, if the state wants to keep IBM or whatever takes IBM's place, they'll need to build that connection.  2A just won't cut it, no matter how many improvements they make, as the "retail hell" will just consume whatever improvements they manage.

My comments weren't about the 2A/89 intersection but more about 2A through "retail hell" north to Route 2.  No doubt the interchange is overtaxed and needs to be redone.  More realistic in the short/medium-term is getting traffic exiting 89 onto 2A moving through the area more efficiently, which should help some with the interchange issues.  The additional street network hopefully will take some stress off of 2A and reduce some of the worst back-ups in the area.  Many people already use roads like Marshall Ave to completely avoid 2A/89 on their trips back to South Burlington/Burlington/Colchester. Anything that gets traffic off of 2A is a good thing.

As for the Circ, my understanding from the CCRPC WENTS report (and from attending town of Williston meetings) is that a full connection between 89 and 289 is off the table.  The Circ, in all parts, is dead.  What is still on the table, however, as part of the Circ alts is EITHER a new bridge over the Winooski which would connect 289 to Redmond Road (the most likely choice) or a new exit off 89 which would connect to Mountain View Road.  In 2012 both the Essex and Williston Selectboards voted in favor of the Redmond Road Connector Plan (bridge connecting to 289).
http://www.ccrpcvt.org/transportation/corridors/williston-essex-network-transportation-study/

[vdeane]

As for the Circ, my understanding from the CCRPC WENTS report (and from attending town of Williston meetings) is that a full connection between 89 and 289 is off the table.  The Circ, in all parts, is dead.  What is still on the table, however, as part of the Circ alts is EITHER a new bridge over the Winooski which would connect 289 to Redmond Road (the most likely choice) or a new exit off 89 which would connect to Mountain View Road.  In 2012 both the Essex and Williston Selectboards voted in favor of the Redmond Road Connector Plan (bridge connecting to 289).
http://www.ccrpcvt.org/transportation/corridors/williston-essex-network-transportation-study/

What killed it off?  It seems like the route would improve access to the area.

[jcroyer80]

As for the Circ, my understanding from the CCRPC WENTS report (and from attending town of Williston meetings) is that a full connection between 89 and 289 is off the table.  The Circ, in all parts, is dead.  What is still on the table, however, as part of the Circ alts is EITHER a new bridge over the Winooski which would connect 289 to Redmond Road (the most likely choice) or a new exit off 89 which would connect to Mountain View Road.  In 2012 both the Essex and Williston Selectboards voted in favor of the Redmond Road Connector Plan (bridge connecting to 289).
http://www.ccrpcvt.org/transportation/corridors/williston-essex-network-transportation-study/

What killed it off?  It seems like the route would improve access to the area.

I'll preface my response with two quick points:  One, I'm a pretty liberal guy and Two, my experience with the Circ and related issues have been mostly in the late 90's and 2000's.  People may certainly view things differently than I do.

The easy answer would be "NIMBY"ers... but it's not that simple. It was killed by a combination of bureaucracy, lawsuits, "NIYBY"  (Not in YOUR back yard)ers, increasing cost and finally frustration from the Feds.   While there was strong local support for the project, there was (like anything else) also local opposition. I would argue however that the local opposition was the minority but was bolstered by state and national environmental organizations.  In recent decades the largest opposition to the Circ care from the well-funded Conservation Law Foundation (which is a [regional] organization with state offices in Vermont).   The lawsuits against the Circ never stopped coming.   Costs continued to rise, citizens got more pissed off that money was being spent on the Circ but nothing was being built.  At the same time money was not being spent to improve other roads/intersections in the area. In 2004 with construction slated to begin, Federal Judge Sessions stopped the Circ again in its tracks.  In the late 2000's it looked like construction might finally start, but the Feds basically told Vermont to "shit or get off the pot"  and with another slew of lawsuits looking likely Governor Shumlin finally pulled the plug and said it was time to move on.

The money that was slated for the Circ is being spent on other smaller projects in/around the Colchester/Essex/Williston area.   Attached is a good article from the Burlington Free Press that sums up the new projects: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20131126/NEWS02/311260013/Instead-of-the-Circ

What pissed off a lot of Vermonters, me included, is that the most vehement opposition to the Circ was coming from a [regional] organization funded by [many] non-Vermonters.  It was a case of "We'll tell you what should and shouldn't be built in your back yard."   I understand some opposition to new roads.  But in this case the road is clearly needed.  This was going to be a boulevard (at least in the most recent iteration) and not a 4 lane superhighway.  It would allow a place already overbuilt to allow traffic to move freely instead of idling in traffic spewing fumes and Co2 into the air.   But in an over litigious society, you can truly stop something if you have enough money to continually file lawsuits, even if you aren't going to win.  In this case a policy of delay, delay, delay (while costs rise) was successful in stopping the Circ.

[vdeane]

But in an over litigious society, you can truly stop something if you have enough money to continually file lawsuits, even if you aren't going to win.

I honestly don't understand why judges don't throw out these lawsuits.  After the first couple lawsuits, if I were a judge, I would have thrown them out even before summary judgement, hold the environmental organizations in contempt of court, AND make them pay all the state's cost.  I'm not sure if they even had standing in those cases.

[Pete from Boston]

The CLF has offices in Providence, Boston, Portland, Concord, and Montpelier.  They are a local, not national organization. 

If they didn't have standing, chances are the cases were thrown out for lack of standing.

[cpzilliacus]

If they didn't have standing, chances are the cases were thrown out for lack of standing.

But standing, at least on federal lawsuits attacking an EIS or ROD, is remarkably easy for a group opposed to a highway project to achieve.

[Pete from Boston]

If they didn't have standing, chances are the cases were thrown out for lack of standing.

But standing, at least on federal lawsuits attacking an EIS or ROD, is remarkably easy for a group opposed to a highway project to achieve.

So it seems.  Which is why I question  the insinuation that they may not have done so.

[jcroyer80]

The CLF has offices in Providence, Boston, Portland, Concord, and Montpelier.  They are a local, not national organization. 

If they didn't have standing, chances are the cases were thrown out for lack of standing.

My apologies, they are a regional organization.  It still does not change the fact (whether you agree with them or not) that they were the largest obstruction to the building of the Circ and completely unwilling to compromise on their position.  As an advocacy group they took it upon themselves to decide what should be built in our backyard.   Again, my apologies for calling them a national organization.  I have edited my prior post (changes in brackets) to reflect this.

[froggie]

In other news, I discovered that the Champlain Parkway (2-lane parkway extension of I-189 to Lakeside Ave and improving Pine St) received its Act 250 permit, per a Burlington Free Press article from 6 weeks ago.

Haven't heard if the opponent appealed (they had 30 days to do so), and a quick search didn't bring up any new articles.

[froggie]

Had reason to swing into Morrisville, VT today...the VT 100 bypass is still not open.  There's some final side-road painting plus striping and signage to finish, and the traffic signal at Bridge St has not been installed yet.  Signage that has been installed confirms that it will be limited-access and will have a 40 MPH speed limit.

I did find one item of interest:  there are grooves in the pavement along and just south of the bypass where lane and edge striping would normally go.  I'm wondering if these grooves mean that VTrans is going to experiment with thermoplast striping. Normally, such striping would get torn away by the snowplows, but with the pavement grooves it might work.

[cl94]

Had reason to swing into Morrisville, VT today...the VT 100 bypass is still not open.  There's some final side-road painting plus striping and signage to finish, and the traffic signal at Bridge St has not been installed yet.  Signage that has been installed confirms that it will be limited-access and will have a 40 MPH speed limit.

I did find one item of interest:  there are grooves in the pavement along and just south of the bypass where lane and edge striping would normally go.  I'm wondering if these grooves mean that VTrans is going to experiment with thermoplast striping. Normally, such striping would get torn away by the snowplows, but with the pavement grooves it might work.

Not necessarily. NYSTA started putting grooves on resurfaced sections of highway a few years back and they just put paint down. Difference is that the paint in the grooves can last through a bad winter (or 2-3), while surface paint may not last a year in the northeast. A few other states do the same thing to preserve the markings.

[froggie]

That would be the other option.  I just haven't ever seen VTrans put the pavement grooves in on a project before.  For example, the pavement reconstruction they did on I-91 in Lyndon/St. J this summer lacked the grooves.