New York

[cl94]

I haven't driven much in NY, but with my experience, that state route freeways seem to be of much poorer quality than interstate routes. I know this is the case with the Buffalo Skyway, Robert Moses, and Lake Ontario State Pkwy.

That may be the case, but it's likely just coincidence. NY 390 and NY 590 have both had poorer quality sections than their Interstate counterparts, but that's probably more because traffic counts drop off as you approach the lake; the same is likely true for the farther reaches of NY 481 and NY 690.

Then again, remember that this also gives you a comparison between such roads as I-278 (horrible) and NY 27 (not honestly all that terrible). And NY 440's pretty good, isn't it (don't think I've ever taken it)?

NY 27 is honestly one of the higher quality routes, and NY 135 is also pretty nice as well. I-278 is abysmal, and I-87 south of I-95 is kind of bad though.

Sunrise Highway (NY 27) is wonderful. The aforementioned BQE doesn't even deserve its Interstate designation and parts of the Van Wyck (I-678) and Cross Bronx (I-95) aren't much better. NY 17 has been Interstate-quality outside of a few sections since the expressway route was built, but I-81 in Syracuse is miserable. I-587 is a glorified four-lane boulevard that doesn't even have a true interchange.

The parkways are often built to lower standards either on purpose to make them feel more scenic (in the case of the Upstate parkways) or because they're quite old (downstate parkways minus Sprain Brook and reconstructed sections of the Taconic). Most of the downstate parkway system predates WWII and the Interstate system, with some of the worst Interstates (portions of I-278 and I-678) actually being converted parkways.

[CobaltYoshi27]

I haven't driven much in NY, but with my experience, that state route freeways seem to be of much poorer quality than interstate routes. I know this is the case with the Buffalo Skyway, Robert Moses, and Lake Ontario State Pkwy.

That may be the case, but it's likely just coincidence. NY 390 and NY 590 have both had poorer quality sections than their Interstate counterparts, but that's probably more because traffic counts drop off as you approach the lake; the same is likely true for the farther reaches of NY 481 and NY 690.

Then again, remember that this also gives you a comparison between such roads as I-278 (horrible) and NY 27 (not honestly all that terrible). And NY 440's pretty good, isn't it (don't think I've ever taken it)?

NY 27 is honestly one of the higher quality routes, and NY 135 is also pretty nice as well. I-278 is abysmal, and I-87 south of I-95 is kind of bad though.

Sunrise Highway (NY 27) is wonderful. The aforementioned BQE doesn't even deserve its Interstate designation and parts of the Van Wyck (I-678) and Cross Bronx (I-95) aren't much better. NY 17 has been Interstate-quality outside of a few sections since the expressway route was built, but I-81 in Syracuse is miserable. I-587 is a glorified four-lane boulevard that doesn't even have a true interchange.

The parkways are often built to lower standards either on purpose to make them feel more scenic (in the case of the Upstate parkways) or because they're quite old (downstate parkways minus Sprain Brook and reconstructed sections of the Taconic). Most of the downstate parkway system predates WWII and the Interstate system, with some of the worst Interstates (portions of I-278 and I-678) actually being converted parkways.

Exactly. The Sunrise Highway is easily the best highway on Long Island, and the BQE is miserable, and so is the Belt Parkway. The Van Wyck isn't too terrible, but it isn't great either. If you're heading to the South fork or eastern Long Island, Take NY-27 instead of I-495. It's worth it.

[Alex]

Upon digging into the highway history I notice a website circles back here to cl94 for a reference: http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-990_ny.html

Interstate-Guide is also our website. If I see something on the board here that I did not know about for a route, or something in addition to what we have posted for a route at iguide, I'll add it in a site update over there.

Frankly I forgot about updating the I-990 page with that post from CL. I drove I-990 way back in 2000 and haven't been back to Buffalo since, so I have not had a reason to update those pages otherwise. I am slowly working at overhauling each route sitewide with newer pics and more research though.

[mariethefoxy]

Correction, the limited access part of Sunrise Highway is wonderful, the traffic light laden part in Nassau county is tedious and takes forever.

[CobaltYoshi27]

Correction, the limited access part of Sunrise Highway is wonderful, the traffic light laden part in Nassau county is tedious and takes forever.

When I talk about the Sunrise Highway, I mean the actual "highway" part of it. Other wise, I just use NY 27 when I am talking about the non-limited access portions.

[empirestate]

Correction, the limited access part of Sunrise Highway is wonderful, the traffic light laden part in Nassau county is tedious and takes forever.

When I talk about the Sunrise Highway, I mean the actual "highway" part of it. Other wise, I just use NY 27 when I am talking about the non-limited access portions.

I think that's understood, although actually I believe the name Sunrise Highway is an older term for the whole route, and would have applied to the original non-freeway route before being upgraded.

Also note that the freeway portion does get a little rougher towards its eastern end, which like other routes I've mentioned would just be due to lower traffic demands.

[CobaltYoshi27]

Correction, the limited access part of Sunrise Highway is wonderful, the traffic light laden part in Nassau county is tedious and takes forever.

When I talk about the Sunrise Highway, I mean the actual "highway" part of it. Other wise, I just use NY 27 when I am talking about the non-limited access portions.

I think that's understood, although actually I believe the name Sunrise Highway is an older term for the whole route, and would have applied to the original non-freeway route before being upgraded.

Also note that the freeway portion does get a little rougher towards its eastern end, which like other routes I've mentioned would just be due to lower traffic demands.

It also helps that it's the main way to get to the south fork. Also, further west allows for the use of the Southern Parkway and even I-495 instead. I'd still take the Sunrise Highway over I-495 any day.

[RobbieL2415]

I haven't driven much in NY, but with my experience, that state route freeways seem to be of much poorer quality than interstate routes. I know this is the case with the Buffalo Skyway, Robert Moses, and Lake Ontario State Pkwy.

That may be the case, but it's likely just coincidence. NY 390 and NY 590 have both had poorer quality sections than their Interstate counterparts, but that's probably more because traffic counts drop off as you approach the lake; the same is likely true for the farther reaches of NY 481 and NY 690.

Then again, remember that this also gives you a comparison between such roads as I-278 (horrible) and NY 27 (not honestly all that terrible). And NY 440's pretty good, isn't it (don't think I've ever taken it)?

Oddly enough NY 531's pavement is in great shape.

[dgolub]

Correction, the limited access part of Sunrise Highway is wonderful, the traffic light laden part in Nassau county is tedious and takes forever.

When I talk about the Sunrise Highway, I mean the actual "highway" part of it. Other wise, I just use NY 27 when I am talking about the non-limited access portions.

I think that's understood, although actually I believe the name Sunrise Highway is an older term for the whole route, and would have applied to the original non-freeway route before being upgraded.

Also note that the freeway portion does get a little rougher towards its eastern end, which like other routes I've mentioned would just be due to lower traffic demands.

People who live on the South Shore in Nassau County very much refer to it as Sunrise Highway.  In fact, numbers are very rarely used among the locals for anything in Nassau except NY 106 and NY 107.

[CobaltYoshi27]

I haven't driven much in NY, but with my experience, that state route freeways seem to be of much poorer quality than interstate routes. I know this is the case with the Buffalo Skyway, Robert Moses, and Lake Ontario State Pkwy.

That may be the case, but it's likely just coincidence. NY 390 and NY 590 have both had poorer quality sections than their Interstate counterparts, but that's probably more because traffic counts drop off as you approach the lake; the same is likely true for the farther reaches of NY 481 and NY 690.

Then again, remember that this also gives you a comparison between such roads as I-278 (horrible) and NY 27 (not honestly all that terrible). And NY 440's pretty good, isn't it (don't think I've ever taken it)?

NY 440 is pretty good, and definitely a good route to take, but I-278 is not bad on Staten Island. Once you hit the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, I-278 is paved well.

[Alps]

Two updates from my recent North Country expedition. Any ideas?

1) NY 314 EB is signed to END at US 9. WB is signed straight at the I-87 NB ramps. There are no traces of 314 signage east of there (county maintenance). Not sure how NY 314 is now defined as of 2016.
2) NY 456 is completely unsigned in both directions (county maintenance) and with no junction signage. Wikipedia suggests it was once signed. Not sure if it even exists as of 2016.

[mariethefoxy]

People who live on the South Shore in Nassau County very much refer to it as Sunrise Highway.  In fact, numbers are very rarely used among the locals for anything in Nassau except NY 106 and NY 107.

106 is called Newbridge Road mostly south of the downtown Hicksville split. 109 is just 109.

Also I noticed that on I-495 and NY 27 they got new small signs next to the overpasses that tell you the name of the street that goes over the highway.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Two updates from my recent North Country expedition. Any ideas?

2) NY 456 is completely unsigned in both directions (county maintenance) and with no junction signage. Wikipedia suggests it was once signed. Not sure if it even exists as of 2016.

It was signed as of 2012.

Now, there has not been a touring route book produced since Jan 2012, so it's plausible things have changed, but we won't know without a new one.

[cl94]

Two updates from my recent North Country expedition. Any ideas?

1) NY 314 EB is signed to END at US 9. WB is signed straight at the I-87 NB ramps. There are no traces of 314 signage east of there (county maintenance). Not sure how NY 314 is now defined as of 2016.
2) NY 456 is completely unsigned in both directions (county maintenance) and with no junction signage. Wikipedia suggests it was once signed. Not sure if it even exists as of 2016.

As of November 2015, GSV on the Northway showed the NY 456 exit as being signed for that route. Was it still signed from the Northway? If you don't know, I'll do a run up there next weekend to check it out. I need to clinch I-87, anyway.

The most recent Official Description I can find online dates from 2012, which is much too old to account for any change. Similarly, the most recent publicly-available highway inventory is 2014, which includes both routes in full. Honestly, this makes me quite curious as well. Do any of our resident NYSDOT employees have access to the internal computer files or people who would know an answer?

On a completely different topic, while doing searches for the above, I found the NYSDOT traffic safety repository, which includes some pretty interesting things. Most notably:

-NYSDOT officially encourages FYAs over doghouses for all PPLT situations, as well as FYAs at protected-only locations to allow for off-peak permissive operations. The flashing red arrow is allowed if studies indicate that an FYA would not work. Regions 1 and 4 in particular appear to be following this pretty closely.
-Backplates with 3" reflective stripe required for all new signal installations on approaches where the speed is at least 45 mph, encouraged for lower speeds. Retrofits on existing installations are encouraged if the wires can handle the loading.
-Reasons provided for switch away from climbing lane and auxiliary lane markings unique to New York
-A full list of how the 2009 MUTCD changed operations

Interesting stuff.

[Roadgeek Adam]

The most recent Official Description I can find online dates from 2012, which is much too old to account for any change. Similarly, the most recent publicly-available highway inventory is 2014, which includes both routes in full. Honestly, this makes me quite curious as well. Do any of our resident NYSDOT employees have access to the internal computer files or people who would know an answer?

When I requested info for NY 252A and 360, I did a FOIA request that got me internal memos. Hopefully someone here has it, otherwise, can FOIA Region 7.

[cu2010]

I wonder if R7 stopped posting shields on roads they don't actually maintain.

NY374 is no longer signed north of US11 either, now signed simply as CR52:

[dgolub]

People who live on the South Shore in Nassau County very much refer to it as Sunrise Highway.  In fact, numbers are very rarely used among the locals for anything in Nassau except NY 106 and NY 107.

106 is called Newbridge Road mostly south of the downtown Hicksville split. 109 is just 109.

Also I noticed that on I-495 and NY 27 they got new small signs next to the overpasses that tell you the name of the street that goes over the highway.

True, although only a tiny piece of NY 109 is in Nassau, so I generally associate it primarily with Suffolk.

[vdeane]

I checked the 2014 Traffic Data Report and NY 314 east of US 9, NY 22 north of US 11, NY 374 north of US 11, and the entirety of NY 456 are no longer listed.  Neither is NY 12E southeast of Paddy Hill Road, and reference route 971H (Paddy Hill Road) no longer appears either, suggesting that NY 12E now officially follows the signs in the area (Main Office Traffic and Safety had mentioned something about a jurisdictional transfer in that area when I asked about it, in the two out of infinity questions I was able to get through before the guy left; there's also something going on with NY 324 at the I-190 overlap, and a new revision of the touring route log is in the works).

On a completely different topic, while doing searches for the above, I found the NYSDOT traffic safety repository, which includes some pretty interesting things. Most notably:

-NYSDOT officially encourages FYAs over doghouses for all PPLT situations, as well as FYAs at protected-only locations to allow for off-peak permissive operations. The flashing red arrow is allowed if studies indicate that an FYA would not work. Regions 1 and 4 in particular appear to be following this pretty closely.
-Backplates with 3" reflective stripe required for all new signal installations on approaches where the speed is at least 45 mph, encouraged for lower speeds. Retrofits on existing installations are encouraged if the wires can handle the loading.
-Reasons provided for switch away from climbing lane and auxiliary lane markings unique to New York
-A full list of how the 2009 MUTCD changed operations

Personally I favor doghouses over FYAs as FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when straight is green, a situation I despise.  Not sure about the aesthetic of the back-plates, either.

I HAVE noticed that the old double stripe for climbing lanes seems to have been going away with restripings.  Too bad; makes it obvious it's a climbing lane (though it might have fueled the culture of not using them unless one can't make it up the hill or is being tailgated; I've noticed that out of state drivers, notably Vermont, are more likely to move right into the lane and them move back left at the end of it).

[cl94]

Alright, so the 2014 Clinton County traffic data report has incorrect info. I figured something was up with the I-190 overlap, given how signs indicate that NY 324 enters I-190 at both Exit 15 and Exit 17.

The double stripe was explicitly mentioned on the MUTCD changes, while the "climbing lane" memo also mentions the white half no-passing half-skip lines New York used to use quite extensively. NYSTA and Regions 4 and 5 eliminated them pretty quickly, with areas further east still using them quite a bit (such as on the Northway in Saratoga County, part of which hasn't been resurfaced since the early 2000s). As of last year, the double stripe was still quite common on the Quickway in southeastern Region 9 and on the Thruway in Victor. The other main places with climbing lanes (Region 1, I-88 in Region 9) have replaced them with wide stripes.

Backplates with or without the reflective strip on approaches with a speed >= 45 MPH are mandated by the 2009 MUTCD, hence why a bunch of signals in New York installed shortly before the stripe was adopted have backplates. NYSDOT only requires them on completely new installations. I am quite curious about how many local municipalities and counties will follow this.

[vdeane]

Alright, so the 2014 Clinton County traffic data report has incorrect info. I figured something was up with the I-190 overlap, given how signs indicate that NY 324 enters I-190 at both Exit 15 and Exit 17.

So signs FINALLY match what the log has said for years?  That's good; the EB direction was technically impossible to follow due to a turn restriction on SB exit 17 (also means I wouldn't have to make an effort to clinch that stretch).

Given how the signage is, I wouldn't be surprised if the route changes are real and the traffic data report more up to date than the touring route book (which is out of date and was never specific enough about routings for my liking anyways, so I never use it).  I wouldn't use NY 456's continued reference on Northway guide signs as of Nov 15 as evidence of its continued existence; those signs are the ONLY surviving mention that NY 456 ever existed (perhaps NYSDOT was uncomfortable with a route number having the same name as a species on Torchwood?), and one can see the exit ramp signage for it literally disappear with the historical street view, and it's possible the signs are waiting to be replaced with ones that don't mention NY 456.

[cl94]

Alright, so the 2014 Clinton County traffic data report has incorrect info. I figured something was up with the I-190 overlap, given how signs indicate that NY 324 enters I-190 at both Exit 15 and Exit 17.

So signs FINALLY match what the log has said for years?  That's good; the EB direction was technically impossible to follow due to a turn restriction on SB exit 17 (also means I wouldn't have to make an effort to clinch that stretch).

Given how the signage is, I wouldn't be surprised if the route changes are real and the traffic data report more up to date than the touring route book (which is out of date and was never specific enough about routings for my liking anyways, so I never use it).  I wouldn't use NY 456's continued reference on Northway guide signs as of Nov 15 as evidence of its continued existence; those signs are the ONLY surviving mention that NY 456 ever existed (perhaps NYSDOT was uncomfortable with a route number having the same name as a species on Torchwood?), and one can see the exit ramp signage for it literally disappear with the historical street view, and it's possible the signs are waiting to be replaced with ones that don't mention NY 456.

EB still has the turn restriction

[vdeane]

What I meant was that following NY 324 EB onto Grand Island Boulevard was impossible due to the turn restriction, and that following NY 324 EB would no longer be impossible if signed on I-190 as the Traffic Data Report has said for eons.

[Duke87]

I checked the 2014 Traffic Data Report and NY 314 east of US 9, NY 22 north of US 11, NY 374 north of US 11, and the entirety of NY 456 are no longer listed.  Neither is NY 12E southeast of Paddy Hill Road, and reference route 971H (Paddy Hill Road) no longer appears either, suggesting that NY 12E now officially follows the signs in the area (Main Office Traffic and Safety had mentioned something about a jurisdictional transfer in that area when I asked about it, in the two out of infinity questions I was able to get through before the guy left; there's also something going on with NY 324 at the I-190 overlap, and a new revision of the touring route log is in the works).

Sounds like TravelMapping needs to update a few things then.

[cl94]

What I meant was that following NY 324 EB onto Grand Island Boulevard was impossible due to the turn restriction, and that following NY 324 EB would no longer be impossible if signed on I-190 as the Traffic Data Report has said for eons.

EB is signed on Grand Island Boulevard as leaving at Exit 15 and reassurance assemblies have been updated to say "To East NY 324". WB is still signed as using Grand Island Boulevard to Exit 17. Do note that the one EB reassurance assembly between the bridge and Exit 15 does not include NY 324.

[vdeane]

I checked the 2014 Traffic Data Report and NY 314 east of US 9, NY 22 north of US 11, NY 374 north of US 11, and the entirety of NY 456 are no longer listed.  Neither is NY 12E southeast of Paddy Hill Road, and reference route 971H (Paddy Hill Road) no longer appears either, suggesting that NY 12E now officially follows the signs in the area (Main Office Traffic and Safety had mentioned something about a jurisdictional transfer in that area when I asked about it, in the two out of infinity questions I was able to get through before the guy left; there's also something going on with NY 324 at the I-190 overlap, and a new revision of the touring route log is in the works).

Sounds like TravelMapping needs to update a few things then.

I submitted a GitHub issue when I saw Steve's post after I checked the Traffic Data Report.  I mentioned the others in comments.  So, I would expect that it will probably be reflected in TM soon.

It's good to see the two big cases where the route definition and route signage don't match (aside from the I-495 weirdness, but that's only in the touring route book and functional class viewer; other logs match signage) get resolved.