Worst county in your state?

[empirestate]

I could see a roadmeet working in the area.  I'd probably have it start in Medina or Albion and include at least one of the lift bridges, the closed bridge on Brown Street, the culvert, the truss bridge over the canal near Medina Falls, drive by the old rail cars near the Medina Train Museum, the arch bridge on NY 63 in Lydonville, the parkway stubs, and the Lake Ontario waterfront at the park at Oak Orchard Lighthouse in Point Breeze.

The little bridge into Lakeside Park could be worth a stop as well. I mean, if you're into that kind of thing.

Richmond County, NY (Staten Island) - Why would anyone go to Staten Island?

Sounds like you've not been before. :-)

For a direct answer, I have gone there a number of times for work. So there's that.

Otherwise, there's some fascinating stuff there. Sailors Snug Harbor is one of those "you'd never believe you're in NYC" places. But even just the free ferry ride and a SI Yankees game (or whoever ends up replacing them), with a unique view of the Manhattan skyline, is worth seeing. You can get great food and hear live music at Adobe Blues not far away. And we've barely penetrated the borough...

Jersey City makes a better fifth borough since they have the Statue of Liberty AND Ellis Island in their city limits.

[hbelkins]

I'm not going to be hosting a roadmeet for reasons I won't get into now, but if I was going to, I'd pick my home county of Monroe, and not just because of bias; it really does have a lot more interesting things to see, both road-related and otherwise.

The one road-related point of interest in Orleans County (besides, arguably, the LOSP terminus) is the culvert under the Erie Canal–the only such crossing by road of that waterway–and I've already got the photo on my website. (As does Google, but the GSV vehicle couldn't fit through the culvert itself.)

I could see a roadmeet working in the area.  I'd probably have it start in Medina or Albion and include at least one of the lift bridges, the closed bridge on Brown Street, the culvert, the truss bridge over the canal near Medina Falls, drive by the old rail cars near the Medina Train Museum, the arch bridge on NY 63 in Lydonville, the parkway stubs, and the Lake Ontario waterfront at the park at Oak Orchard Lighthouse in Point Breeze.

Could start with the now-removed Inner Belt (or was it called Inner Loop, I forget) in Rochester.

One thing I remember about the Rochester meet was seeing a car make its own off-ramp and going up a well-worn dirt path off of (I think) NY 590.

[webny99]

Could start with the now-removed Inner Belt (or was it called Inner Loop, I forget) in Rochester.

Well, right, but that's in Monroe County, not Orleans. (It was the Inner Loop.)

One thing I remember about the Rochester meet was seeing a car make its own off-ramp and going up a well-worn dirt path off of (I think) NY 590.

Now I'm curious. I can picture that happening somewhere, but I can't quite put my finger on the location. In the vicinity of the NY 104 interchange, possibly?

[vdeane]

Could start with the now-removed Inner Belt (or was it called Inner Loop, I forget) in Rochester.

It's a bit far for an Orleans County meet, though I've also given some thought as to what another Rochester meet might look like.  It would probably make sense to focus more on what's changed/what hasn't been featured yet... so possibly something like the Inner Loop, Pont de Rennes/High Falls, Driving Park Avenue/Lower Falls, I-490/I-390/NY 390, the Veterans Memorial Bridge (NY 104), and maybe NY 531 (could add the Spencerport lift bridge, which is in the area).  Maybe even I-390 exit 16?

One thing I remember about the Rochester meet was seeing a car make its own off-ramp and going up a well-worn dirt path off of (I think) NY 590.

Now I'm curious. I can picture that happening somewhere, but I can't quite put my finger on the location. In the vicinity of the NY 104 interchange, possibly?

Here.  It suppose it's possible the car had a flux capacitor and just came back from 1970.

[noelbotevera]

Richmond County, NY (Staten Island) - Why would anyone go to Staten Island?

Sounds like you've not been before. :-)

For a direct answer, I have gone there a number of times for work. So there's that.

Otherwise, there's some fascinating stuff there. Sailors Snug Harbor is one of those "you'd never believe you're in NYC" places. But even just the free ferry ride and a SI Yankees game (or whoever ends up replacing them), with a unique view of the Manhattan skyline, is worth seeing. You can get great food and hear live music at Adobe Blues not far away. And we've barely penetrated the borough...

Jersey City makes a better fifth borough since they have the Statue of Liberty AND Ellis Island in their city limits.

Will say that my dad has been to Staten Island and I've rode the ferry before. Personally my favorite Manhattan views are from Brooklyn and Queens; I've managed to capture Lower Manhattan with an amazing sunset on the Brooklyn Bridge before. Is it the typical, touristy view? Yeah, but it's famous for a reason.

The ferry views of Manhattan...hmm, I like them, but I prefer landscape over portrait shots of Manhattan. I like the contrast between the towering skyscrapers of Downtown and Midtown to quaint apartments of Uptown. Again, my taste; no argument over "objectivity" here!

Food and music? All the good stuff is in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Queens and The Bronx, too, though that requires more searching and careful planning. (I'll die on the assertion that Tatiana's in Brighton Beach is one of the finest restaurants in NYC.)

Snug Harbor - okay, never been, but it kinda looks like the Cloisters. Except without subway access. I guess the Asian architecture is interesting, though if I want cherry blossoms I'm going to DC.

Never been a sports fan. Have watched a Penn State football game for the sole reason that my sister was in the marching band.

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

[empirestate]

The ferry views of Manhattan...hmm, I like them, but I prefer landscape over portrait shots of Manhattan. I like the contrast between the towering skyscrapers of Downtown and Midtown to quaint apartments of Uptown. Again, my taste; no argument over "objectivity" here!

Sure, but remember–you asked why anyone would go, not why you would go.

Food and music? All the good stuff is in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Queens and The Bronx, too, though that requires more searching and careful planning.

And Staten Island. And dozens of other communities surrounding the city, and nationwide...and around the world. But I will say, you do have the perfect New Yorker-cover view of the city that suggests you'd make a good transplant.

Snug Harbor - okay, never been, but it kinda looks like the Cloisters. Except without subway access. I guess the Asian architecture is interesting, though if I want cherry blossoms I'm going to DC.

And that's another point: sometimes the value in a place is found not in why you went there, but in what you found once you did. I never went to Staten Island for the cherry blossoms or Asian architecture, but that didn't mean it was worthless when I discovered it.

Never been a sports fan. Have watched a Penn State football game for the sole reason that my sister was in the marching band.

Me either, but going to Pirates games was one of my favorite things about Pittsburgh (to shift geographic gears a bit). And it was largely due to the physical setting.

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason. However, the fact that it's all white suburbia is pretty inaccurate; remember that even this least-populous borough would still outrank Buffalo as a standalone city, and it has a demography representative of that fact.

(For an anomaly of the type you describe, see Springfield, MO–an almost eerily non-diverse, mid-sized city, and for a reason.)

[kphoger]

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason.

Yeah, if you don't like an all-white neighborhood because you enjoy diversity, then you should have an equally low view of all-black and all-Chinese and all-Mexican neighborhoods as well.

(I actually find neighborhoods that have a high number of two different immigrant groups quite fascinating.  For example, here in Wichita, there's a stretch of N. Broadway where Vietnamese-language business signs are juxtaposed with Spanish-language business signs–for example, this sign has both PHỞ HIỀN and LA TIENDA DEL AHORRO.)  Some neighborhoods in Chicago are real gems in that way, too.

(For an anomaly of the type you describe, see Springfield, MO–an almost eerily non-diverse, mid-sized city, and for a reason.)

A former co-worker of mine started me on referring to Springfield as "Meth Capital USA".

[Flint1979]

I'd really love to hear why I can't go swimming at Lakeside Beach State Park. Wtf kind of park calls itself a beach and you can't even swim there?

[kphoger]

Hey, what are these people doing? in the water? at the beach?

Breaking the rules, THAT'S what they're doing!

[Flint1979]

Hey, what are these people doing? in the water? at the beach?

Breaking the rules, THAT'S what they're doing!

I have no idea. Swimming isn't allowed at Lakeside Beach State Park so yeah breaking the rules is what they are doing.

[webny99]

I wish New York was a "swim at your own risk" state. Banning it altogether in (most) non-lifeguarded areas is a royal annoyance, even though enforcement can vary wildly.

[noelbotevera]

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason.

Yeah, if you don't like an all-white neighborhood because you enjoy diversity, then you should have an equally low view of all-black and all-Chinese and all-Mexican neighborhoods as well.

(I actually find neighborhoods that have a high number of two different immigrant groups quite fascinating.  For example, here in Wichita, there's a stretch of N. Broadway where Vietnamese-language business signs are juxtaposed with Spanish-language business signs–for example, this sign has both PHỞ HIỀN and LA TIENDA DEL AHORRO.)  Some neighborhoods in Chicago are real gems in that way, too.

I...what? How do you come to that conclusion?

I've been to West Virginia, which is very homogenous. That's fine. I'm not gonna boycott the entire state just because I hate ethnic diversity. I'll still visit the state and enjoy my time there, irrespective of my beliefs.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.

The ferry views of Manhattan...hmm, I like them, but I prefer landscape over portrait shots of Manhattan. I like the contrast between the towering skyscrapers of Downtown and Midtown to quaint apartments of Uptown. Again, my taste; no argument over "objectivity" here!

Sure, but remember–you asked why anyone would go, not why you would go.

Food and music? All the good stuff is in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Queens and The Bronx, too, though that requires more searching and careful planning.

And Staten Island. And dozens of other communities surrounding the city, and nationwide...and around the world. But I will say, you do have the perfect New Yorker-cover view of the city that suggests you'd make a good transplant.

Snug Harbor - okay, never been, but it kinda looks like the Cloisters. Except without subway access. I guess the Asian architecture is interesting, though if I want cherry blossoms I'm going to DC.

And that's another point: sometimes the value in a place is found not in why you went there, but in what you found once you did. I never went to Staten Island for the cherry blossoms or Asian architecture, but that didn't mean it was worthless when I discovered it.

You raise good points that I failed to explain.

Yes, any view of Manhattan is worthwhile, and I'd believe that people would ride the ferry for views of Manhattan. Whether you consider arriving at Staten Island and leaving the ferry as "visiting", or simply waiting at the docks for next boat to Manhattan, is up to interpretation.

In the case of food - true, good food requires searching. But finding good food is easier in the other boroughs. I could easily get off at some random subway stop in the other four boroughs and find a restaurant mentioned in a magazine. In Staten Island, I might need to look up an online list if I want to find good places to eat, and I'd need to drive there than use the SIR. Now, you can argue that people do this anyways when planning their trips - I say that more than likely, there's more "mentioned" restaurants in another borough alone than in Staten Island.

Last point - also very true. If I think of something I'll add it on.

And to be fair, I've done weirder roadtrips - I've gone to Punxsutawney during the middle of summer for no reason; maybe we should try exploring the island one of these days.

[kphoger]

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason.

Yeah, if you don't like an all-white neighborhood because you enjoy diversity, then you should have an equally low view of all-black and all-Chinese and all-Mexican neighborhoods as well.

(I actually find neighborhoods that have a high number of two different immigrant groups quite fascinating.  For example, here in Wichita, there's a stretch of N. Broadway where Vietnamese-language business signs are juxtaposed with Spanish-language business signs–for example, this sign has both PHỞ HIỀN and LA TIENDA DEL AHORRO.)  Some neighborhoods in Chicago are real gems in that way, too.

I...what? How do you come to that conclusion?

I've been to West Virginia, which is very homogenous. That's fine. I'm not gonna boycott the entire state just because I hate (love?) ethnic diversity. I'll still visit the state and enjoy my time there, irrespective of my beliefs.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.

The bolded phrases are how I came to that conclusion.  I guess I read it wrong.  Sorry, bud.

At any rate, do people really flock to NYC because of its ethnic diversity?  I guess I figured they went there for the theaters, the zoo, the skyscrapers, the monuments, Central Park, the museums, Tom's Restaurant, the subway experience–and then, at mealtime, they search out something interesting and possibly ethnic nearby.  I mean, I get that there's not a whole lot of draw to Staten Island, but I don't think that really has anything to do with its ethnic makeup, just the fact that it's a suburban residential area.

(And as for ethnic food, Google Maps tells me there are quite a few Sri Lankan restaurants on Staten Island, but only one elsewhere in NYC.  I've never had Sri Lankan food.  If I were in the city, it might be worth a trip to check it out.)

[hotdogPi]

kphoger, if you ever come to my area, Lowell has Cambodian food in one section of the city. Lawrence is almost 80% Hispanic, slightly more than half of those being Dominican, but it's harder to tell Dominican vs. other Hispanic just by looking at the outside of a building.

[kphoger]

kphoger, if you ever come to my area, Lowell has Cambodian food in one section of the city. Lawrence is almost 80% Hispanic, slightly more than half of those being Dominican, but it's harder to tell Dominican vs. other Hispanic just by looking at the outside of a building.

My wife and I would like to take a family vacation to that general area (Boston—Portsmouth) at some point, but there are no real plans at this time.  In that area, though, I'd first have to get pizza at a candlepin bowling alley and eat beachfront seafood before even considering somewhere for ethnic food.

[The Nature Boy]

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason.

Yeah, if you don't like an all-white neighborhood because you enjoy diversity, then you should have an equally low view of all-black and all-Chinese and all-Mexican neighborhoods as well.

(I actually find neighborhoods that have a high number of two different immigrant groups quite fascinating.  For example, here in Wichita, there's a stretch of N. Broadway where Vietnamese-language business signs are juxtaposed with Spanish-language business signs–for example, this sign has both PHỞ HIỀN and LA TIENDA DEL AHORRO.)  Some neighborhoods in Chicago are real gems in that way, too.

I...what? How do you come to that conclusion?

I've been to West Virginia, which is very homogenous. That's fine. I'm not gonna boycott the entire state just because I hate (love?) ethnic diversity. I'll still visit the state and enjoy my time there, irrespective of my beliefs.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.

I mean, I get that there's not a whole lot of draw to Staten Island, but I don't think that really has anything to do with its ethnic makeup, just the fact that it's a suburban residential area.

Staten Island is worth considering if you want to save money by getting a hotel "outside of the city" and also don't want to pay to get in and out of Manhattan. The Staten Island ferry is a great way to get to lower Manhattan. If I go to NYC, I always try to get a hotel in Staten Island over Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. Hotels there also generally have free parking.

It's a hidden gem.

[Scott5114]

I wish New York was a "swim at your own risk" state. Banning it altogether in (most) non-lifeguarded areas is a royal annoyance, even though enforcement can vary wildly.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to pay a lifeguard than someone to enforce a no-swimming rule? Pretty sure lifeguards get paid less than cops.

At any rate, do people really flock to NYC because of its ethnic diversity?

I don't think anyone flocks to it because of its ethnic diversity, but because of a lot of unique experiences possible only because of that diversity.

[empirestate]

Wtf kind of park calls itself a beach and you can't even swim there?

...a park with a beach in it?

Hey, what are these people doing? in the water? at the beach?

Breaking the rules, THAT'S what they're doing!

I have no idea. Swimming isn't allowed at Lakeside Beach State Park so yeah breaking the rules is what they are doing.

I mean, who from Rochester never snuck up to Durand beach in the middle of the night and swam? Heck, that beach was never even open for swimming during normal hours...but the water didn't evaporate, and they never came and rolled up the sand, so...you had a beach.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.
[...]
In the case of food - true, good food requires searching. But finding good food is easier in the other boroughs.

But you're comparing one borough to another here. The question is only why someone would go to Staten Island, not why they'd go there over another borough.

On the other hand, even if we are to compare, why compare this county only with the other counties inside NYC? What about the counties adjacent to it in New Jersey? Or counties elsewhere in New York, or across the U.S.?

For another aspect, you're considering the visitor's point of view; what about that of the locals? I know quite a few folks who relocated to Staten Island from elsewhere in the city or metro area, precisely because of the different lifestyle it afforded them. I certainly saw its appeal myself when I was living up in the Bronx.

Yes, any view of Manhattan is worthwhile, and I'd believe that people would ride the ferry for views of Manhattan. Whether you consider arriving at Staten Island and leaving the ferry as "visiting", or simply waiting at the docks for next boat to Manhattan, is up to interpretation.

But I'm not referring to views from the ferry; I meant from the waterfront on the St. George side (at the ballpark, or thereabouts). The ferry, on the other hand, is known for having the best view of Liberty Enlightening the World (which, as we all know, is in New York County).

And to be fair, I've done weirder roadtrips - I've gone to Punxsutawney during the middle of summer for no reason; maybe we should try exploring the island one of these days.

And that's another great point, and probably the simplest and most pertinent answer to your question of "why would anybody go there?" To me, the whole point of this hobby is embodied in the maxim that anyplace you haven't been is worth going. Where does that road lead? Let's find out!

[Flint1979]

As for my dad's interpretation: it's a bunch of houses filled with white suburban folk. In a city known for its diversity...nah.

In a way, it is itself an example of that diversity for that reason.

Yeah, if you don't like an all-white neighborhood because you enjoy diversity, then you should have an equally low view of all-black and all-Chinese and all-Mexican neighborhoods as well.

(I actually find neighborhoods that have a high number of two different immigrant groups quite fascinating.  For example, here in Wichita, there's a stretch of N. Broadway where Vietnamese-language business signs are juxtaposed with Spanish-language business signs–for example, this sign has both PHỞ HIỀN and LA TIENDA DEL AHORRO.)  Some neighborhoods in Chicago are real gems in that way, too.

I...what? How do you come to that conclusion?

I've been to West Virginia, which is very homogenous. That's fine. I'm not gonna boycott the entire state just because I hate (love?) ethnic diversity. I'll still visit the state and enjoy my time there, irrespective of my beliefs.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.

I mean, I get that there's not a whole lot of draw to Staten Island, but I don't think that really has anything to do with its ethnic makeup, just the fact that it's a suburban residential area.

Staten Island is worth considering if you want to save money by getting a hotel "outside of the city" and also don't want to pay to get in and out of Manhattan. The Staten Island ferry is a great way to get to lower Manhattan. If I go to NYC, I always try to get a hotel in Staten Island over Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. Hotels there also generally have free parking.

It's a hidden gem.

I stayed in New York City for a few nights about 8 years ago. I stayed in Queens there was a newer Days Inn at the corner of Van Dam and Queens Blvd in Long Island City. It only cost $119 a night and was about two blocks from the 33rd-Rawson station on the 7 train. It was pretty cheap I thought for NYC prices and was a new building at the time.

[Flint1979]

Wtf kind of park calls itself a beach and you can't even swim there?

...a park with a beach in it?

Hey, what are these people doing? in the water? at the beach?

Breaking the rules, THAT'S what they're doing!

I have no idea. Swimming isn't allowed at Lakeside Beach State Park so yeah breaking the rules is what they are doing.

I mean, who from Rochester never snuck up to Durand beach in the middle of the night and swam? Heck, that beach was never even open for swimming during normal hours...but the water didn't evaporate, and they never came and rolled up the sand, so...you had a beach.

But, in the case of NYC, a lot of people know it for its ethnic diversity. Queens is renowned for it. In my eyes, I don't think people would visit Staten Island if they were expecting a lot of ethnic food or a lot of diverse neighborhoods. They could find more of that in Queens or Brooklyn. Unless Staten Island offered something extraordinary - say, Native American food, which is hard to find - then I could see a reason why people would go there.
[...]
In the case of food - true, good food requires searching. But finding good food is easier in the other boroughs.

But you're comparing one borough to another here. The question is only why someone would go to Staten Island, not why they'd go there over another borough.

On the other hand, even if we are to compare, why compare this county only with the other counties inside NYC? What about the counties adjacent to it in New Jersey? Or counties elsewhere in New York, or across the U.S.?

For another aspect, you're considering the visitor's point of view; what about that of the locals? I know quite a few folks who relocated to Staten Island from elsewhere in the city or metro area, precisely because of the different lifestyle it afforded them. I certainly saw its appeal myself when I was living up in the Bronx.

Yes, any view of Manhattan is worthwhile, and I'd believe that people would ride the ferry for views of Manhattan. Whether you consider arriving at Staten Island and leaving the ferry as "visiting", or simply waiting at the docks for next boat to Manhattan, is up to interpretation.

But I'm not referring to views from the ferry; I meant from the waterfront on the St. George side (at the ballpark, or thereabouts). The ferry, on the other hand, is known for having the best view of Liberty Enlightening the World (which, as we all know, is in New York County).

And to be fair, I've done weirder roadtrips - I've gone to Punxsutawney during the middle of summer for no reason; maybe we should try exploring the island one of these days.

And that's another great point, and probably the simplest and most pertinent answer to your question of "why would anybody go there?" To me, the whole point of this hobby is embodied in the maxim that anyplace you haven't been is worth going. Where does that road lead? Let's find out!

Durand Beach is in Monroe County. I was talking about the fact that there is nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County.

[kphoger]

I mean, who from Rochester never snuck up to Durand beach in the middle of the night and swam? Heck, that beach was never even open for swimming during normal hours...but the water didn't evaporate, and they never came and rolled up the sand, so...you had a beach.

Durand Beach is in Monroe County. I was talking about the fact that there is nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County.

(For the sake of all that is good and decent in the world, please trim the quote down to what you're actually replying to.)

Durand Beach has lifeguards on duty, but not at night.  (And, supposedly, not always during the day?)  I think his point is merely that those people swimming at Lakeside Beach are no more "rulebreakers" than people who go swimming at Durand Beach outside of swimming hours.

If New York were a "swim at your own risk" (as webny99 had suggested) and Lakeside Beach State Park removed its 'no swimming' rule, then there would in fact be somewhere to swim on the beach in Orleans County.

But that's all kind of beside the point–because there isn't 'nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County'.

Go to Green Harbor Campground & Marina, whose website states...

Our 700 feet of sandy beach along the shore of Lake Ontario provides you with a relaxing break from the hectic chores of everyday life.

...and features the picture below on the site's front page...



...and whose user-submitted images on Google Maps include those below.

[webny99]

Hey, what are these people doing? in the water? at the beach?

Breaking the rules, THAT'S what they're doing!

I have no idea. Swimming isn't allowed at Lakeside Beach State Park so yeah breaking the rules is what they are doing.

I mean, who from Rochester never snuck up to Durand beach in the middle of the night and swam? Heck, that beach was never even open for swimming during normal hours...but the water didn't evaporate, and they never came and rolled up the sand, so...you had a beach.

Ha! I can't say I've done it in the middle of the night, but that is a great example of the weirdness of NY's approach to beaches: swimming is technically not allowed at the most popular beach in the Rochester area! Of course, there's zero enforcement outside of the far western section... and it would be total chaos if there was. But I don't know what gives, because I've been kicked out of the non-lifegaurded area at Hamlin Beach, for example.

As for Lakeside Beach, it's an open question whether the No Swimming rule is enforced or not. I don't know. And I don't suspect many people have bothered to find out when Hamlin is just a few miles down the road.

But that's all kind of beside the point–because there isn't 'nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County'.

Go to Green Harbor Campground & Marina ...

I don't believe that's open to the general non-camping public.

[Roadgeekteen]

I mean, who from Rochester never snuck up to Durand beach in the middle of the night and swam? Heck, that beach was never even open for swimming during normal hours...but the water didn't evaporate, and they never came and rolled up the sand, so...you had a beach.

Durand Beach is in Monroe County. I was talking about the fact that there is nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County.

(For the sake of all that is good and decent in the world, please trim the quote down to what you're actually replying to.)

Durand Beach has lifeguards on duty, but not at night.  (And, supposedly, not always during the day?)  I think his point is merely that those people swimming at Lakeside Beach are no more "rulebreakers" than people who go swimming at Durand Beach outside of swimming hours.

If New York were a "swim at your own risk" (as webny99 had suggested) and Lakeside Beach State Park removed its 'no swimming' rule, then there would in fact be somewhere to swim on the beach in Orleans County.

But that's all kind of beside the point–because there isn't 'nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County'.

Go to Green Harbor Campground & Marina, whose website states...

Our 700 feet of sandy beach along the shore of Lake Ontario provides you with a relaxing break from the hectic chores of everyday life.

...and features the picture below on the site's front page...



...and whose user-submitted images on Google Maps include those below.

That's not a bad beach

[Flint1979]

I basically said I couldn't find a beach anywhere in Orleans County not that one doesn't exist. But I still can't see much of the beach at Lakeside Beach State Park. Lake Ontario is a Great Lake and I am probably the least familiar with it compared to the other Great Lakes. I know the beaches around Michigan on the Great Lakes have sand all over the place. I don't see that on Lake Ontario unless I'm missing something.

The Lake Huron side here doesn't have the best of beaches I think Lake Michigan has the best beaches out of the Great Lakes and I'm pretty familiar with those two lakes. So where on Lake Ontario are the best beaches? I might have to ask the same question for Lake Erie. Gitche Gumee is too cold to swim in but it can be done.

[kphoger]

But that's all kind of beside the point–because there isn't 'nowhere to swim on the beach anywhere in Orleans County'.

Go to Green Harbor Campground & Marina ...

I don't believe that's open to the general non-camping public.

Well, you have to pay a vehicle fee to get into Lakeside Beach State Park, too.  But, besides that...

Although New York is home to a substantial number of beautiful beaches and waterfront homes, there has been limited litigation regarding the application of the public trust doctrine to beach access. Accordingly, the boundary between the private landowner's rights and the public's rights is unclear. Nevertheless, the extremely modest case law in this area suggests that the private property owner has the sole right to all real estate that is landward of the high water mark, none of which the public may lawfully use, while the public only has the right to access the lands seaward of the mean high water mark. This approach could result in criminal charges against individuals who cross privately owned dry sand beaches to reach the foreshore.

So it would technically, theoretically, supposedly be legal for non-guests to access that beach, so long as they stay below the high water mark.

I still can't see much of the beach at Lakeside Beach State Park.

The beach is here.  (How much you wanna bet those little signs say "No Swimming"?)  Here's another view.