Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit?

[ZLoth]

From KTXS (ABC):

Is it actually legal to go 5 mph over the speed limit? Texas DPS clarifies the laws of the road

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, speeding is one of the most broken laws in America. There are roughly 112,000 speeding tickets issued every day.

Speeding has harsh consequences and most Texas drivers are not aware that they are not allowed to drive 5 miles per hour over the speed limit.

FULL ARTICLE HERE

[Flint1979]

I'll speed at times when I'm in Michigan and keep it at 5 over and never have had a problem but in other states I'll do more along the lines of the speed limit.

I remember being in Ohio about 2 years ago, I was driving home from Cincinnati and was in the stretch where I-75 is four laned between Troy and Findlay and passed a state cop doing 80 mph, the cop did nothing about it and I kept driving. Now I don't know or really even think that I'd get away with that every time. I do 80 in Michigan and have never had a problem.

[kphoger]

However, as it relates to restrictions against one's driving privileges or driver's license...

Chapter 8 – Automobiles and Other Vehicles

Article 15 – Uniform Act Regulating Traffic;  Rules of the Road

8-1560c – Certain violations of maximum speed limits not construed as moving traffic violations.

(a) Any conviction or forfeiture of bail or bond for violating a maximum posted or authorized speed limit of 30 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 54 miles per hour on any highway, by not more than six miles per hour, shall not be construed as a moving traffic violation for the purpose of K.S.A. 8-255, and amendments thereto.

(b) Any conviction or forfeiture of bail or bond for violating the maximum posted or authorized speed limit of 55 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 75 miles per hour on any highway, by not more than 10 miles per hour, shall not be construed as a moving traffic violation for the purpose of K.S.A. 8-255, and amendments thereto.

And, as it relates to one's insurance rates...

Chapter 8 – Automobiles and Other Vehicles

Article 15 – Uniform Act Regulating Traffic;  Rules of the Road

8-1560d – Certain violations of maximum speed limits not public record; not to be considered for liability insurance.

Convictions for violating a maximum posted speed limit of 55 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 75 miles per hour, by not more than 10 miles per hour in excess of such maximum speed limit, or a maximum posted speed limit of 30 miles per hour or more but not exceeding 54 miles per hour, by not more than six miles per hour in excess of such maximum speed limit, shall not be reported by the division and shall not be considered by any insurance company in determining the rate charged for any automobile liability insurance policy or whether to cancel any such policy under the provisions of subsection (4)(c)(7) of K.S.A. 40-277, and amendments thereto.

So, while it's technically illegal to go 5 over the limit in Kansas, doing so is explicitly not considered a moving violation and cannot be reported to your insurance company.

[Max Rockatansky]

Whether it is or not I blow by CHP officers doing 10 MPH over all the time.  In general speeding seems to not be a very high priority in California.  More than 5 MPH over in Florida or Arizona was a different story and asking for trouble.

[Flint1979]

Btw, I was told by a cop (a Michigan State Trooper) that they don't go after anyone that is driving within reason. He also told me it's about 7 or 8 mph over the limit before they'll come after you. But this must not apply on freeways because he told me that they are instructed to start pulling people over at 85 mph. This was a trooper from the Roscommon post.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The urban legend was that police speed detection tools have a variance window of +/- 5 MPH which is why it was believed driving +5 was accepted, however if that was true the technology has improved where cops can now get a pretty accurate reading within 1-2 NPH. The reason you probably won't get stopped for going only a few over (unless it's being used for a pretext stop, or a bored small town cop raising a few bucks for the local VFW fund) is because it just makes the cop and his department look petty and draconian.

[jeffandnicole]

Nothing but a myth or urban legend. I've heard the same be said of construction zones, that it's a 10 mph automatic reduction. Not true there either.

Of course, the Sargent is going to say they'll give you 5 mph leeway, but it's not a law. What he isn't saying is that he is laughing at the 5 mph...depending on the road and jurisdiction, it may be 10 mph, 15 mph or higher.  At least in my experiences, Jersey State Troopers often allow up to 19 over in most 55 zones on highways, and 14 mph over in 65 mph zones.  I can drive from here to Florida and I've never had an issue driving at 78 mph in 75 and 70 zones.

So, while 5 mph over isn't lawfully permitted, no cop is going to waste their time with that unless the driver is being obnoxious about something else.

[1995hoo]

Like just about any other thread about whether something is "legal," the fallacy here is assuming that there is one universal answer. The question is whether the speed limit is absolute or prima facie. If the speed limit is absolute, then it is illegal to exceed it. If it's prima facie, it's not necessarily illegal, but the motorist may have the burden of proving that his speed was reasonable and prudent under the conditions.

A further issue is, of course, that just because something is "illegal" doesn't mean you'll necessarily get ticketed for it. "Can" you be ticketed for going 56 mph in a 55-mph zone in a state with absolute speed limits? Yes. "Will" you be? Usually not. (This is sort of like the expression teachers often use to respond to a question about whether a student "can" do something, like "can I use the restroom"–"You can but you may not.")

The most draconian speed enforcement I know of was in Australia–speed cameras in Victoria used to issue tickets for as little as 3 km/h over the limit. I believe that has been changed, due in no small part to federal standards there allowing for 10% speedometer error.

So, while 5 mph over isn't lawfully permitted, no cop is going to waste their time with that unless the driver is being obnoxious about something else.

The boldfaced is so often the key principle, and it often determines who gets pulled over. The guy who's speeding but who is simply minding his own business is probably less likely to get pulled over than the guy who's weaving in and out, tailgating, etc.

[hotdogPi]

It's explicitly legal in a few northwestern states as long as you're passing.

[skluth]

Back in the day I used to often drive through a tiny municipality in South St Louis County called Bella Villa. They were notorious for ticketing anyone who drove anything over the speed limit.  Bayless was the quickest road between Lemay Ferry Rd and I-55 and used by almost all my coworkers who lived in South County or Jefferson County. The speed limit was 35 mph and they would give tickets out for driving 36 mph; this happened to a couple of coworkers. Missouri put a stop to municipalities getting most of their revenue from tickets about the same time as our Broadway office closed permanently due to the 1993 Mississippi flood so that put a stop to their revenue stream but they still will ticket those going even 5 mph over. Fortunately, the city extended River Des Peres Blvd to Broadway so Bayless can easily be avoided by anyone going to the casino that now occupies our former site.

[ET21]

I go 5 over pretty much everywhere, because otherwise you'll be pushed off the road by everyone else. Only places I stick to the limit or go under is if there are a lot of pedestrians around

[MATraveler128]

In my experience in New England, the cops here really don’t care as long as you’re going with the average flow of traffic. I regularly do 75-80 on some of the less busy Interstates such as I-89 or I-93 in New Hampshire and never have issues. However, the cops in New York seem to be more strict as when I drove the New York Thruway, I saw cops doing speed enforcement everywhere and saw one guy get busted for doing 90.

[CoreySamson]

Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?

[Dough4872]

https://www.penndot.pa.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card.pdf In Pennsylvania, police only issue fines if going more than 10 mph over the speed limit when 55 mph or lower and if more than 5 mph over if the speed limit is 65 or 70 mph

[kphoger]

Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?

According to Texas state law, you could only be cited if your slower speed made the passage of other traffic "unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous" (Penal Code § 42.03).  I seriously doubt that going the speed limit would fall under that condition.  But if you were going, say, 45 mph under the limit, then you might have something to worry about.

[Scott5114]

One reason a cop may choose not to ticket someone going less than 5 mph over the limit has to do with the imprecision of the speed measuring tools at the officer's disposal. While, yes, theoretically a radar gun is more precise than that, it has to be properly calibrated to do so. So if you pull someone for going 1 mph over the limit, someone bound and determined to plead Not Guilty can really ruin an officer's week by subpoenaing calibration records, etc.

And that presupposes it's even possible to convict someone on 1 mph. To find someone guilty of a crime, one needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and I think any judge or jury on earth would have a reasonable doubt that someone was really going 1 mph over the limit.

Either way, the whole thing becomes a waste of the officer's time. Much easier to just let 66 in a 65 go and wait for the inevitable person to blowing past at 80 mph to turn up.

[Flint1979]

This might have to do with it being around rivalry week for the Michigan Wolverines and Ohio State Buckeyes. But several years ago Frank Beckmann was Michigan's play by play radio announcer and had a talk show on WJR radio in Detroit so he was pretty well known in the area. He got a ticket in Ohio for going 56 in a 55. I don't know much about the story but I remember that.

[vdeane]

https://www.penndot.pa.gov/TravelInPA/Safety/TrafficSafetyAndDriverTopics/Documents/TIPP-Fine-Card.pdf In Pennsylvania, police only issue fines if going more than 10 mph over the speed limit when 55 mph or lower and if more than 5 mph over if the speed limit is 65 or 70 mph

Interesting.  I wonder what they do if a work zone causes a 70 mph zone to be reduced to a 60 mph one (yes, it does happen).

One reason a cop may choose not to ticket someone going less than 5 mph over the limit has to do with the imprecision of the speed measuring tools at the officer's disposal. While, yes, theoretically a radar gun is more precise than that, it has to be properly calibrated to do so. So if you pull someone for going 1 mph over the limit, someone bound and determined to plead Not Guilty can really ruin an officer's week by subpoenaing calibration records, etc.

And that presupposes it's even possible to convict someone on 1 mph. To find someone guilty of a crime, one needs proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and I think any judge or jury on earth would have a reasonable doubt that someone was really going 1 mph over the limit.

Either way, the whole thing becomes a waste of the officer's time. Much easier to just let 66 in a 65 go and wait for the inevitable person to blowing past at 80 mph to turn up.

Not to mention that cars aren't precisely calibrated, either.  My Civic is pretty darn close, but I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer.  My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.

[kphoger]

I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer.  My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.

How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?

[vdeane]

I've noticed that the DOT Prius is usually going 3-4 mph slower than the number shown on the speedometer.  My Accord was similar; the number on the speedometer was ~2 mph faster than what I was actually going.

How do you know the exact speed you were actually going?

With my Accord and Civic, I know the difference between them thanks to a "your speed" sign that used to exist on a road near where I grew up.  I know the Civic because of comparisons to other "your speed" signs as well as timing how long it takes me to travel distances on the Thruway that "should" take an hour given my speed (this is where my rigid behavior with speed limits actually provides a benefit other than satisfying my Aspergian need for consistency; since I always go the same speed in 65 zones unless traffic/weather forces otherwise, I need only see if I actually go 72 miles in one hour, or 36 miles in a half hour).  With the DOT Prius, I did a Thruway test as well when coming back from the last conference I went to, and there's that time my coworker had Google Maps open and we were able to read the speed registered on the GPS.

[jeffandnicole]

Related question: if I'm going the speed limit on a certain road but the flow of traffic is 10-20 mph higher, could a cop theoretically ticket me for causing an obstruction in the flow of traffic, even if I'm only sitting in the slow lane? Or if I get rear-ended in the slow lane by someone moving a lot faster at the regular flow of traffic's speed, would it be inaccurate to say that I would at least be partially to blame for the accident because I created an obstacle?

I remember hearing this theoretical question in the past.  The basic answer is no, especially driving in the right lane. (Queue the people that claim they know a friend who got a ticket.  Did you see a copy of the ticket?  Oh, they paid it and threw it out.  Right...)

In reality, not everyone is doing 10 - 20 mph over the limit.  It may sure seem like it, but overall, if someone is going 10 - 20 over, chances are they're in the left lane speeding along with traffic in that lane, passing slower traffic in the center & right lanes.  Which means, that other traffic isn't going 10 - 20 over.  While I'm not saying it hasn't happened, if someone does the speed limit in the right lane, they're not going to be forced off the road.  There truly are some drivers that adhere to the limit, or are in a work van or truck that is going about the limit.

[gonealookin]

In Nevada, on highways with a posted speed limit of 60 mph or higher, the fine is $25 and the violation is not recorded on a driver's record or deemed a "moving traffic violation" if:

1.  It's during daylight hours;
2.  It's outside the urban areas of Las Vegas and Reno or very limited other locations in Clark and Washoe Counties;
3.  The driver is not exceeding a 60 or 65 mph speed limit by more than 10 mph, or is not exceeding a 70, 75 or 80 speed limit by more than 5 mph.

So exceeding the speed limit is not "legal" but if you are willing to treat a highway like that as a $25 toll road, there is no further penalty.

Full text of the law is Nevada Revised Statutes 484B.617.  Clark and Washoe Counties, which include Las Vegas and Reno respectively, are the only two counties in the state whose population exceeds 100K.

[jgb191]

Ever since I got pulled over near Kerrville, TX back in 2008 for going 83 MPH on an 80 zone (+3 MPH over), I've been nervous and reluctant to push the pointer past the limit (even though I've been tempted to several times) ever since then.  Luckily I wasn't administered a citation, but I was reprimanded by the local police for driving "way too dangerously" and was given a stern warning to slow down.  I was so shaken up by his enraged yelling at me that I didn't let my car anywhere near the posted limit the rest of the drive back home.

[Big John]

I remember in 1993 in Pennsylvania there were pick your fine signs and they started at 1 MPH over

[Bruce]

It's legal unless the cop has it out for you, or people who look like you.

My sorry butt got pulled over in small-town Idaho for going 38 in a 35 that was about to become a 45.