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Author Topic: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway  (Read 184527 times)

jakeroot

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #575 on: March 05, 2021, 04:04:30 PM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #576 on: March 05, 2021, 07:23:08 PM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.
https://www.illinoistollway.com/documents/20184/841304/2020_490_IL390_Interchange_MAP_2020Construction_041620.pdf/6b3acf30-5116-404b-a365-b42d925333e0
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #577 on: March 05, 2021, 10:43:02 PM »

So the segment between Busse/83 and York is open?

I don't think he meant that far. None of the major mapping services (Google, OSM, etc) show it open past Busse/Route 83.

Unless there has been a very quiet opening in the past week or two, all IL 390 traffic must still enter/exit on the west side of IL 83.  I don't think all the pavement is down yet east of IL 83.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #578 on: March 06, 2021, 03:28:13 PM »

So the segment between Busse/83 and York is open?

I don't think he meant that far. None of the major mapping services (Google, OSM, etc) show it open past Busse/Route 83.

Unless there has been a very quiet opening in the past week or two, all IL 390 traffic must still enter/exit on the west side of IL 83.  I don't think all the pavement is down yet east of IL 83.

Correct, all traffic still enters/exits from Busse. East of that the pavement is mostly down but not opened yet. I believe York/Elmhurst Road will remain as a local entry/exit for businesses. One of the new exit signs mention using York Road as a TO IL-19 (Irving Park Road) point, which is another mile or so south.
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hobsini2

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #579 on: March 07, 2021, 02:42:04 PM »

I can attest, being at O'Hare yesterday as part of my job, the expansion of Terminal 5 is underway.  The steel support trusses for the expansion have been erected in the last 3 weeks. I think that's a good indication that the O'Hare 21 Project is definitely happening.  With that being said, as for the western terminal and access road, that is still up for debate and probably won't be around for a decade.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #580 on: March 09, 2021, 11:06:30 PM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.

I don’t think the western facility will be a traditional terminal, but kind of a passenger pickup/drop off area with a people mover to the main terminal core, which Terminal 2 will be reconfigured to be more like Atlanta. But this wouldn’t happen until the airport hits 100 million passengers, and that will now be a long time before that happens thanks to COVID.

I think the EOWA project was premature and overbuilt. I supported extending the EOE, but I-490 seems more like a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294.
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #581 on: March 10, 2021, 08:08:58 AM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.

I don’t think the western facility will be a traditional terminal, but kind of a passenger pickup/drop off area with a people mover to the main terminal core, which Terminal 2 will be reconfigured to be more like Atlanta. But this wouldn’t happen until the airport hits 100 million passengers, and that will now be a long time before that happens thanks to COVID.

I think the EOWA project was premature and overbuilt. I supported extending the EOE, but I-490 seems more like a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294.

Taking some traffic from the mess over at I-90/294/190 will definitely help there, and this can help divert some traffic from that interchange, particularly I-294 NB to I-90 WB and I-90 EB to I-294 SB. Also, it does provide areas between I-294 and some of the W/NW burbs a less congested alternative to I-290 (of course, for those willing to pay).
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #582 on: March 10, 2021, 10:50:05 AM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.

I don’t think the western facility will be a traditional terminal, but kind of a passenger pickup/drop off area with a people mover to the main terminal core, which Terminal 2 will be reconfigured to be more like Atlanta. But this wouldn’t happen until the airport hits 100 million passengers, and that will now be a long time before that happens thanks to COVID.

I think the EOWA project was premature and overbuilt. I supported extending the EOE, but I-490 seems more like a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294.

Taking some traffic from the mess over at I-90/294/190 will definitely help there, and this can help divert some traffic from that interchange, particularly I-294 NB to I-90 WB and I-90 EB to I-294 SB. Also, it does provide areas between I-294 and some of the W/NW burbs a less congested alternative to I-290 (of course, for those willing to pay).

also can take some truck traffic off of the local roads in that area as well.
give an cut over for people say on I-355 to get to I-90 / I-294 near the airport or elmhurst road at I-90 area
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #583 on: March 11, 2021, 08:12:17 AM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.

I don’t think the western facility will be a traditional terminal, but kind of a passenger pickup/drop off area with a people mover to the main terminal core, which Terminal 2 will be reconfigured to be more like Atlanta. But this wouldn’t happen until the airport hits 100 million passengers, and that will now be a long time before that happens thanks to COVID.

I think the EOWA project was premature and overbuilt. I supported extending the EOE, but I-490 seems more like a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294.

I-490 is the belt that will stop O'Hare from expanding further into DuPage County.

Tired of Chicago/Cook County politics in blocking alternate access points from the west, they finally agreed to new ORD runways but only if the highways were allowed for western access. While a highway hasn't usually stopped Chicago from doing what it wants, I see I-490 as a kind of "Wall of DuPage" that finally stops O'Hare encroachment into Bensenville.

The one thing that I would like to check out is what sales tax will be enforced in the west terminal vendor area? It is technically in DuPage County, not Cook.

Will it have Illinois Lottery vending machines?

These are important questions because Chicago is a tax sponge and patronage operation. But retail in the terminal is not 100% their jurisdiction.

O'Hare bleed over into DuPage was not an issue before because there was no retail on the DuPage side of the property.
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #584 on: March 11, 2021, 01:59:01 PM »

Found a visual that answers my question. Looks like, in addition to new runways, the plan is for a new terminal on the western side:



Earlier in the thread there was a discussion on the idea that Chicago has given up on the western terminal. Some say no, some say yes.

Parking garage perhaps with a shuttle to a terminal, but being a full service terminal is not happening according to the last agreement done by Rahm Emmanuel.

Seems 9-11 has soured everyone on having any kind of underground shuttles going under all of the primary runways.

By shuttle, you mean like a bus that might pass directly through airport property? Or something that might use the new expressway?

Perhaps when the modernization of the people mover is complete, they could extend it out there.

Some recent articles suggest any new western facilities would be for employees.

I don’t think the western facility will be a traditional terminal, but kind of a passenger pickup/drop off area with a people mover to the main terminal core, which Terminal 2 will be reconfigured to be more like Atlanta. But this wouldn’t happen until the airport hits 100 million passengers, and that will now be a long time before that happens thanks to COVID.

I think the EOWA project was premature and overbuilt. I supported extending the EOE, but I-490 seems more like a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294.

I-490 is the belt that will stop O'Hare from expanding further into DuPage County.

Tired of Chicago/Cook County politics in blocking alternate access points from the west, they finally agreed to new ORD runways but only if the highways were allowed for western access. While a highway hasn't usually stopped Chicago from doing what it wants, I see I-490 as a kind of "Wall of DuPage" that finally stops O'Hare encroachment into Bensenville.

The one thing that I would like to check out is what sales tax will be enforced in the west terminal vendor area? It is technically in DuPage County, not Cook.

Will it have Illinois Lottery vending machines?

These are important questions because Chicago is a tax sponge and patronage operation. But retail in the terminal is not 100% their jurisdiction.

O'Hare bleed over into DuPage was not an issue before because there was no retail on the DuPage side of the property.

Well, common sense would say that Chicago collects any city taxes and DuPage any County taxes. But this is Chicago, and I am sure Cook County wants a slice of that pie as well. Getting back on I-490, and looking at other airports, I do agree it will be a nice "wall" for the DuPage County side. Also, it keeps a logical barrier between communities and the Airport. For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to build it. The combination of DuPage and Kane Counties has between 1.4 and 1.5 million, so that serves a good-sized population in that area alone and add another 500K if you include parts of the NW suburbs and Northern Will County that would use that to access the airport.
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skluth

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #585 on: March 11, 2021, 09:55:41 PM »

(Deleted previous as not relevant to this point)
Getting back on I-490, and looking at other airports, I do agree it will be a nice "wall" for the DuPage County side. Also, it keeps a logical barrier between communities and the Airport. For a lot of reasons, it makes sense to build it. The combination of DuPage and Kane Counties has between 1.4 and 1.5 million, so that serves a good-sized population in that area alone and add another 500K if you include parts of the NW suburbs and Northern Will County that would use that to access the airport.

You would think, but I wouldn't be too sure. It isn't difficult to trench highways for runways and taxiways, as can be seen on I-190 going to the airport. Howell Avenue has been trenched next to Billy Mitchell for decades. It's expensive. But when you're buying out a couple hundred properties, the additional expense of trenching I-490 for a runway and adjacent taxiway is just one more expense on an expensive project and might allow a more direct routing of I-490 to the Northwest/ Addams Tollway if O'Hare is expanded to the west or northwest.

I won't try to predict the future of jet travel once we start the new post-COVID normal plus whatever jet controls are introduced as we rejoin the Paris Agreement. But it wouldn't surprise me if a major push to expand O'Hare again succeeds within the next 20-30 years.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #586 on: March 11, 2021, 10:53:15 PM »

I won't try to predict the future of jet travel once we start the new post-COVID normal plus whatever jet controls are introduced as we rejoin the Paris Agreement. But it wouldn't surprise me if a major push to expand O'Hare again succeeds within the next 20-30 years.
I think air travel will be about 10 years behind the automobile industry in electrifying or otherwise "greening" its operations, but it will happen. And I'd not be surprised to see some sort of western O'Hare access, even by a people mover connection to the existing terminals, by 2050.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #587 on: March 13, 2021, 12:07:40 PM »

Does O'Hare Airport need to be expanded? It looks very constricted by existing roads and development. It's probably as big as its going to get. Of course, someone could propose to build a second international airport to supplement O'Hare, but where would one put it? Any new airport, international or otherwise, would have to be built far away from O'Hare.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #588 on: March 13, 2021, 12:25:04 PM »

Does O'Hare Airport need to be expanded? It looks very constricted by existing roads and development. It's probably as big as its going to get. Of course, someone could propose to build a second international airport to supplement O'Hare, but where would one put it? Any new airport, international or otherwise, would have to be built far away from O'Hare.
Peotone in Will County has been proposed multiple times as the 3rd Chicagoland Airport site
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cabiness42

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #589 on: March 13, 2021, 12:48:52 PM »

Does O'Hare Airport need to be expanded? It looks very constricted by existing roads and development. It's probably as big as its going to get. Of course, someone could propose to build a second international airport to supplement O'Hare, but where would one put it? Any new airport, international or otherwise, would have to be built far away from O'Hare.
Peotone in Will County has been proposed multiple times as the 3rd Chicagoland Airport site
Gary tried adding passenger service but it never worked. Maybe if they renamed it something other than Gary.
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hobsini2

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #590 on: March 13, 2021, 02:42:33 PM »

One other reason that came to mind for the 490 project being done now has to do with the reconstruction and widening of 294. Once 490 is completed, ISTHA and IDOT can finally redo the interchange of 88, 294 and 290, particularly the NB 294 to WB 290 ramp and the SB 294 weaving with 88, without too much of a major detour and backups for traffic going between Indiana and Schuamburg/Rockford.
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skluth

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #591 on: March 13, 2021, 06:42:11 PM »

Does O'Hare Airport need to be expanded? It looks very constricted by existing roads and development. It's probably as big as its going to get. Of course, someone could propose to build a second international airport to supplement O'Hare, but where would one put it? Any new airport, international or otherwise, would have to be built far away from O'Hare.
Peotone in Will County has been proposed multiple times as the 3rd Chicagoland Airport site
Gary tried adding passenger service but it never worked. Maybe if they renamed it something other than Gary.

Renaming it East Chicago wouldn't make it any more attractive. LOL

Seriously, a nice new airport could be built between the Toll Road and Lake Michigan in the area around that land. It would be easy to expand it with some landfill into the lake much like that industrial monstrosity north of East Chicago. (Landfill would be needed if you wanted to build a parallel runway that could be used in IFR conditions which requires the runways to be about a mile apart.) It would involve taking a large rail yard and an old mill, but it could be done. Getting there from Downtown Chicago can't be any worse than the Kennedy to O'Hare.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #592 on: March 13, 2021, 06:55:30 PM »

One other reason that came to mind for the 490 project being done now has to do with the reconstruction and widening of 294. Once 490 is completed, ISTHA and IDOT can finally redo the interchange of 88, 294 and 290, particularly the NB 294 to WB 290 ramp and the SB 294 weaving with 88, without too much of a major detour and backups for traffic going between Indiana and Schuamburg/Rockford.

I think both will be ongoing at the same time, not sure if Covid delayed the opening of 490. Would have to take a look at the new/original completion dates
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Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #593 on: March 13, 2021, 09:49:44 PM »

I won't try to predict the future of jet travel once we start the new post-COVID normal plus whatever jet controls are introduced as we rejoin the Paris Agreement. But it wouldn't surprise me if a major push to expand O'Hare again succeeds within the next 20-30 years.
I think air travel will be about 10 years behind the automobile industry in electrifying or otherwise "greening" its operations, but it will happen. And I'd not be surprised to see some sort of western O'Hare access, even by a people mover connection to the existing terminals, by 2050.

There are several efforts underway to make electric turbofans. Most of early research by Airbus was focused on using an existing airframe and providing a simple drop in the nacelle replacement. This program (E-Fan X) was cancelled when Covid hit the air travel market.

Rolls Royce, GE, Safran, P&W all have some kind of electric program going on behind closed doors. How much time and money being invested isn't clear yet.

Chinese researchers have been putting a lot of effort into using electric plasma drives to replace traditional jet engines, but these have some known impacts to the upper atmosphere and are still a laboratory proof of concept.

It is unknown what Kunetsov or any supplier in the Russian air industry is currently working on.

There is a 100% electric airframe start up in Bellevue, Washington that was making good progress and Boeing was a lead investor in the effort. "Was" is after Boeing starting poaching much of their talent, the firm filed suit and Boeing withdrew their support post the 737MAX.

Most of the growth in electric air transport appears to be in air taxi's. Orlando just issued a permit for a electric air taxi service for tourism and transport to theme parks by air. No date on when they plan to start service post Covid.

The issue in electric turbofans is roughly the same as it was in the early fossil fueled jet age. Amount of thrust per kWh and weight of the electric producing medium.

When air travel returns post covid, advancement will probably accelerate when the popular carriers start requesting proof of concepts.

After green shareholder pressure, Canadian railroads are now pursuing a hydrogen based plan for locomotion.

It will be the same for the jet engine and airframe makers. A large number of green shareholders will force the board of directors to embrace and invest in green tech and the change will begin.
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #594 on: March 13, 2021, 10:52:43 PM »

I think both will be ongoing at the same time, not sure if Covid delayed the opening of 490. Would have to take a look at the new/original completion dates

I think the disagreements with Canadian Pacific delayed the southern half of I-490 more than Covid.
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #595 on: March 22, 2021, 09:32:45 PM »

Article from the Daily Herald today, with some key exerpts.

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20210322/all-systems-go-on-i-490-the-toll-road-that-could-change-ohare-access-and-suburban-driving

Quote
....
"Work is occurring all along the I-490 corridor this year, with much of the construction focused around the interchanges that will connect the new road with the Jane Addams Memorial Tollway (I-90), the Route 390 tollway and the Tri-State Tollway (I-294)," agency spokesman Dan Rozek said.

One significant focus in 2021 is the $340 million full-access interchange between I-490 and Route 390 that also provides access to York and Irving Park roads and O'Hare.

The project entails a 3-mile stretch of I-490 plus 16 ramps and 15 bridges "that will deliver full mobility into and out of the west side of the airport," Rozek said.
...
The massive Route 390 and I-490 interchange should be built by the end of 2023. Additional ramps taking vehicles from I-490 to the airport will be finished by 2025.
...
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lstone19

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #596 on: March 23, 2021, 09:33:28 AM »

Article from the Daily Herald today, with some key exerpts.

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20210322/all-systems-go-on-i-490-the-toll-road-that-could-change-ohare-access-and-suburban-driving


And another quote that I find worrisome:
Quote
That could be a lot faster at rush hour than using I-290 or continuing on I-90 to reach the Tri-State, but it will cost more since tolls on I-490 are about 20 cents a mile compared to the average 6 cents elsewhere.

So, assuming what the reporter wrote is correct, ISTHA plans to charge tolls for it that don't fit in with the existing tolls on I-90 and I-294, despite it being, as someone said above, a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294. Unless the toll from I-290 on I-294 at Hillside to I-290 on I-90 at Schaumburg is the same whether you go I-294/I-90 east of O'Hare or I-294/I-490/I-90 west of O'Hare, I expect a lot of traffic will continue to go east of O'Hare.

Over the last ten years, tolling on the ISTHA roads has become absolutely bizarre as they've taken the mind set that new or improved ramps need to be tolled separately (with ramp tolls) from the general toll structure. So we see things I consider to be just flat out wrong such as paying less to go farther (WB on I-90 and pay to exit at IL-47 or go another five miles and pay nothing to exit at US 20) or paying to enter but then having no opportunity to exit without paying another toll (I believe that having paid a toll, there must be at least one opportunity to exit without paying more - an example is enter I-90 EB at IL-47 and then you either pay to exit at Randall Road or pay at the Elgin Toll Plaza; plenty of other examples along I-90 due to the all-way tolling at Barrington Rd and Roselle Rd). Any "logic of tolls" went out the window with them years ago.

And then there's the screwing the residents of Belvidere received. When they made the Hampshire and Belvidere plazas one-way double tolls, the promise was a round-trip wouldn't cost more. And then someone in the Downers Grove brain trust must have realized that the potential for a free ride existed for people who exited at Genoa Road who then shunpiked back the other way. So they added exit tolls at Genoa Road and now someone who exits there and then returns pays the exit toll going to Genoa Road plus the full round-trip double-toll when they enter at Genoa Road.

And one more thing: that "average of 6 cents elsewhere". It's just an average and the per mile rate varies all over the place. I can go the approximately 35 miles from Gurnee to I-290 in Hillisde for 75 cents (I-Pass auto) or just over 2 cents per mile, then the next five miles to Ogden Ave costs me another 75 cents or 15 cents per mile (and once I pass Ogden Ave., I'm into the zone of the next mainline plaza).
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ChiMilNet

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #597 on: March 23, 2021, 11:55:37 AM »

Article from the Daily Herald today, with some key exerpts.

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20210322/all-systems-go-on-i-490-the-toll-road-that-could-change-ohare-access-and-suburban-driving


And another quote that I find worrisome:
Quote
That could be a lot faster at rush hour than using I-290 or continuing on I-90 to reach the Tri-State, but it will cost more since tolls on I-490 are about 20 cents a mile compared to the average 6 cents elsewhere.

So, assuming what the reporter wrote is correct, ISTHA plans to charge tolls for it that don't fit in with the existing tolls on I-90 and I-294, despite it being, as someone said above, a glorified ramp between I-90 and I-294. Unless the toll from I-290 on I-294 at Hillside to I-290 on I-90 at Schaumburg is the same whether you go I-294/I-90 east of O'Hare or I-294/I-490/I-90 west of O'Hare, I expect a lot of traffic will continue to go east of O'Hare.

Over the last ten years, tolling on the ISTHA roads has become absolutely bizarre as they've taken the mind set that new or improved ramps need to be tolled separately (with ramp tolls) from the general toll structure. So we see things I consider to be just flat out wrong such as paying less to go farther (WB on I-90 and pay to exit at IL-47 or go another five miles and pay nothing to exit at US 20) or paying to enter but then having no opportunity to exit without paying another toll (I believe that having paid a toll, there must be at least one opportunity to exit without paying more - an example is enter I-90 EB at IL-47 and then you either pay to exit at Randall Road or pay at the Elgin Toll Plaza; plenty of other examples along I-90 due to the all-way tolling at Barrington Rd and Roselle Rd). Any "logic of tolls" went out the window with them years ago.

And then there's the screwing the residents of Belvidere received. When they made the Hampshire and Belvidere plazas one-way double tolls, the promise was a round-trip wouldn't cost more. And then someone in the Downers Grove brain trust must have realized that the potential for a free ride existed for people who exited at Genoa Road who then shunpiked back the other way. So they added exit tolls at Genoa Road and now someone who exits there and then returns pays the exit toll going to Genoa Road plus the full round-trip double-toll when they enter at Genoa Road.

And one more thing: that "average of 6 cents elsewhere". It's just an average and the per mile rate varies all over the place. I can go the approximately 35 miles from Gurnee to I-290 in Hillisde for 75 cents (I-Pass auto) or just over 2 cents per mile, then the next five miles to Ogden Ave costs me another 75 cents or 15 cents per mile (and once I pass Ogden Ave., I'm into the zone of the next mainline plaza).

Honestly, now that they've made it official that they're going to be permanent electronic only, why not just across the system do what they do on IL-390? Yes, would it require some up-front time and cost. However, it would make more sense, make it easier for everyone, and most importantly, make it fairer. This would also be an opportunity to tear out the old toll plazas (which in some places still result in a lane drop, looking at you I-355 Boughton Rd and I-94 Waukegan Plazas). I just hope they wouldn't use it as an excuse to jack up the tolls more, although, it would be no different than what they do in every other state with tolls (looking at you, especially, PA)!
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cabiness42

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #598 on: March 23, 2021, 12:16:58 PM »

Seems like there's an easy way to do this:

Suppose that a mainline toll plaza is $1
Entering at any point before the toll plaza is free
Exiting at any point before the toll plaza is pro-rated based on the percentage of where the exit is in relation to the two mainline plazas it's between. If it's 20% of the way, the toll is 20 cents, 50% of the way = 50 cents, etc.
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #599 on: March 23, 2021, 04:43:19 PM »

Seems like there's an easy way to do this:

Suppose that a mainline toll plaza is $1
Entering at any point before the toll plaza is free
Exiting at any point before the toll plaza is pro-rated based on the percentage of where the exit is in relation to the two mainline plazas it's between. If it's 20% of the way, the toll is 20 cents, 50% of the way = 50 cents, etc.
They can do I-Pass / EZ-Pass only virural tickets on some places.
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