New Jersey

[odditude]

How is it not consistent?  Any map will tell you that 66 goes towards Freehold (albeit not to/through).  And if you want to go from anywhere in the vicinity of 66 to Freehold, then 66 West is the road you want to take.

shit. Here we go.  Put Trenton on the sign too.  66 West - Freehold -Trenton. Well done.

do you have an issue with I-295 and I-95 having Trenton as destinations?

[roadman65]

How is it not consistent?  Any map will tell you that 66 goes towards Freehold (albeit not to/through).  And if you want to go from anywhere in the vicinity of 66 to Freehold, then 66 West is the road you want to take.

shit. Here we go.  Put Trenton on the sign too.  66 West - Freehold -Trenton. Well done.

You got me quoted for saying something I did not.  In the box above you have Kacie Jane's quote with my name on it.

[Don'tKnowYet]

How is it not consistent?  Any map will tell you that 66 goes towards Freehold (albeit not to/through).  And if you want to go from anywhere in the vicinity of 66 to Freehold, then 66 West is the road you want to take.

shit. Here we go.  Put Trenton on the sign too.  66 West - Freehold -Trenton. Well done.

do you have an issue with I-295 and I-95 having Trenton as destinations?

No. Trenton on I-95 or I-295 would be a control city, not a destination - primary or otherwise. Critical difference. Further, an interstate is a SYSTEM whereas whereever that sign was intended would be presumably on NJ 66 or some junction with it. Except for NJ 18, i guess the sign would be for a SERVICE highway. Thus, Trenton for a sign with NJ 66 that does not include TO NJ 33 in some capacity would be inappropriate.

[Don'tKnowYet]

How is it not consistent?  Any map will tell you that 66 goes towards Freehold (albeit not to/through).  And if you want to go from anywhere in the vicinity of 66 to Freehold, then 66 West is the road you want to take.

shit. Here we go.  Put Trenton on the sign too.  66 West - Freehold -Trenton. Well done.

You got me quoted for saying something I did not.  In the box above you have Kacie Jane's quote with my name on it.

My apologies. That shouldn't be the focus if anyone needed me to clarify.

[Kacie Jane]

How is it not consistent?  Any map will tell you that 66 goes towards Freehold (albeit not to/through).  And if you want to go from anywhere in the vicinity of 66 to Freehold, then 66 West is the road you want to take.

shit. Here we go.  Put Trenton on the sign too.  66 West - Freehold -Trenton. Well done.

You got me quoted for saying something I did not.  In the box above you have Kacie Jane's quote with my name on it.

My apologies. That shouldn't be the focus if anyone needed me to clarify.

Regardless of who said what, the only problem I'd have with that is 66/33 is not the best route from that general area all the way to Trenton, since I-195 is right there.  (195 goes essentially directly towards Trenton, 33 bends north to serve... Freehold.)

(Also, I'm intrigued by what you think the difference is between control cities and destinations.  Genuinely intrigued, as 99% of the people on this board tend to use the terms interchangeably.)

[swiftdo]

Speaking of the Freehold area, I spotted this assembly today off the EB lanes of 33 just past the 537 EB onramp.



Here's the gantry it will replace.

[Zeffy]

Great photos. Nice to know not all of the state is suffering from the Clearview contractor.

[Big John]

^^ Too bad the old sign had "MILES" correct instead of the new sign saying "MILE"

[storm2k]

Speaking of the Freehold area, I spotted this assembly today off the EB lanes of 33 just past the 537 EB onramp.



Here's the gantry it will replace.

Interesting that the shields have the black backing. NJDOT has been moving away from that these days.

[J Route Z]

Bradley Beach or Asbury Park? On several guide signs, the destinations include Neptune and Asbury Park, not Bradley Beach. However, the route technically goes into Ocean Grove.

[swiftdo]

Bradley Beach or Asbury Park? On several guide signs, the destinations include Neptune and Asbury Park, not Bradley Beach. However, the route technically goes into Ocean Grove.

I've always wondered why Ocean Grove was never made the control city for 33 after Freehold. Especially after construction at 71 aligned the road to Broadway in the Grove. Here's a shot from the start of the EB bypass.



And I'm all for these new signs. If MILE instead of MILES is the only error, it's a massive improvement for new signs in Freehold.

[NE2]

Bradley Beach or Asbury Park? On several guide signs, the destinations include Neptune and Asbury Park, not Bradley Beach. However, the route technically goes into Ocean Grove.

Technically it ends just outside Ocean Grove in Neptune Township. Asbury Park is the obvious choice.

[NJRoadfan]

But NJ-66 is the road that actually goes to Asbury Park.

[roadman65]

But NJ-66 is the road that actually goes to Asbury Park.

NJ 33 goes to NJ 66 which goes there.  I can point out many places that a control city is not on the main route of the highway being signed.

[NE2]

But NJ-66 is the road that actually goes to Asbury Park.

Ignoring your needless anality about control cities, they both go there (and NJ 33 actually gets closer to the city limits).

[ixnay]

Bradley Beach or Asbury Park? On several guide signs, the destinations include Neptune and Asbury Park, not Bradley Beach. However, the route technically goes into Ocean Grove.

Technically it ends just outside Ocean Grove in Neptune Township. Asbury Park is the obvious choice.

Yeah, would the Boss's career have gotten off the ground if his debut LP were called Greetings From Ocean Grove, N.J.? 

This is the kind of town OG is... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_Grove,_New_Jersey

ixnay

[Zeffy]

Direct answer from an NJDOT representative about New Jersey's usage of Clearview. I emailed them a week and a half ago just to get their stance on the issue - turns out, these signs were intentional, but they will be replaced with FHWA once more.

Hello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

I assume "EC" meant EM, unless it's something else entirely. It also means that Clearview will no longer be pushed by the FHWA, and will presumably, be killed entirely within the entire country.

[jeffandnicole]

Direct answer from an NJDOT representative about New Jersey's usage of Clearview. I emailed them a week and a half ago just to get their stance on the issue - turns out, these signs were intentional, but they will be replaced with FHWA once more.

Hello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

I assume "EC" meant EM, unless it's something else entirely. It also means that Clearview will no longer be pushed by the FHWA, and will presumably, be killed entirely within the entire country.

Great question, and great response.

I don't think any Clearview signs were installed on 76.  I think they were only installed on 676, and limited to Exit 3 (?).

Of course, when they say they'll replace the signs on 195/295, that problem means they'll be replaced when they're due to be replaced....in 2035!!

[Mr. Matté]

A week and a half is a pretty damn good response for NJDOT. I wrote for a couple of months about a bent guiderail over a sidewalk on NJ 64, a route that's only known to the state and roadgeeks, and it took a letter to my state senator for it to get fixed.

[Zeffy]

Great question, and great response.

Thanks! 

I don't think any Clearview signs were installed on 76.  I think they were only installed on 676, and limited to Exit 3 (?).

Of course, when they say they'll replace the signs on 195/295, that problem means they'll be replaced when they're due to be replaced....in 2035!!

There are Clearview signs for Exit 4 / Kaighn Avenue in Camden on I-676. I'm not aware of any installations of Clearview on I-76 though.

EDIT: Oh, and while we're on this discussion, the Clearview US 206 1 mile advance sign on I-195 is still there - I just somehow managed to miss it multiple times.

[jeffandnicole]

After a while, it blends in and you don't even notice it.  I'm fairly quick to notice something different on my drives that I've taken every workday for 16 years, but ask me a question about a sign that hasn't changed, and I probably have to give it some deep thought, if not specifically look at it in person or on GSV.

[Zeffy]

After a while, it blends in and you don't even notice it.  I'm fairly quick to notice something different on my drives that I've taken every workday for 16 years, but ask me a question about a sign that hasn't changed, and I probably have to give it some deep thought, if not specifically look at it in person or on GSV.

I think a bit of sleepiness might've contributed to that as well...    Of course, I've been on that section of I-195 so many times, it just feels so routine so I pretty much just focus on the cars around me instead of anything else (I know where the exits are just by the scenery).

[PHLBOS]

Direct answer from an NJDOT representative about New Jersey's usage of Clearview. I emailed them a week and a half ago just to get their stance on the issue - turns out, these signs were intentional, but they will be replaced with FHWA once more.

Hello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

I assume "EC" meant EM, unless it's something else entirely. It also means that Clearview will no longer be pushed by the FHWA, and will presumably, be killed entirely within the entire country.

Thanks for following up & doing the legwork.

So while the BGS' along I-676 were a test case (i.e. early on); IMHO, such still does not excuse NJDOT from not following the where and where not to apply the Clearview font guidelines on its later BGS' along I-295 & 195.

[jeffandnicole]

Direct answer from an NJDOT representative about New Jersey's usage of Clearview. I emailed them a week and a half ago just to get their stance on the issue - turns out, these signs were intentional, but they will be replaced with FHWA once more.

Hello Matthew,
Thank you for contacting the New Jersey Department of Transportation (NJDOT). NJDOT is aware of all signs in the field using Clearview font. FHWA gave NJDOT interim approval in 2007 for the use of Clearview lettering on I-676 and I-76 as a test case. Based on positive feedback, Clearview font was installed on additional signs on Rt. 18, Rt. 295, and Rt. 195. A representative from FHWA has reached out to us recently and told us that they will no longer be pursuing the standardization of the Clearview font. Based on this direction, NJDOT will not be fabricating or installing more signs using Clearview. These signs will be replaced in the future with signs using the EC Modified font.

I hope this information is helpful. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact the office of Community and Constituent Relations at (609) 530-2110.
NJ DOT Correspondence Unit

I assume "EC" meant EM, unless it's something else entirely. It also means that Clearview will no longer be pushed by the FHWA, and will presumably, be killed entirely within the entire country.

Thanks for following up & doing the legwork.

So while the BGS' along I-676 were a test case (i.e. early on); IMHO, such still does not excuse NJDOT from not following the where and where not to apply the Clearview font guidelines on its later BGS' along I-295 & 195.

It would probably depend on where along the pipeline the signs were created, in relation to the notification from FHWA.  Somewhere on these boards someone posted notification to a state mentioning that Clearview was going to be discontinued, but it could take many months for the notification to be sent to all states.  And these signs could've been fabricated and just sitting around for months as well. 

[Zeffy]

Thanks for following up & doing the legwork.

So while the BGS' along I-676 were a test case (i.e. early on); IMHO, such still does not excuse NJDOT from not following the where and where not to apply the Clearview font guidelines on its later BGS' along I-295 & 195.

Absolutely. In fact, I mentioned it in the email I sent them:

Greetings,

As of late, I've noticed several new highway sign installations on Interstates 195 and 295 in the Trenton area. These signs appear to be using the alternate typeface known as "Clearview" instead of the federal standard font provided by the FHWA. To my knowledge, NJDOT has not requested interim approval for the typeface, and as of late the FHWA is no longer approving interim approval requests to use the typeface.

As someone who has a great interest in highway signs and roads and highways in general, I would like to inquire if NJDOT is aware of these new installations which violate the FHWA's policy on Clearview by utilizing the typeface in both the exit tab as well as in all-caps situations. Second, if these signs were intended to be fabricated as such, I would like to know if NJDOT is switching to Clearview in the future? Neighboring states such as Delaware, Pennsylvania, and New York utilize the typeface, and I wonder if New Jersey is next.

The locations of the newer sign installations that I have personally noticed using Clearview are:

*I-195 WB Exit 2 - US 206 1 MILE sign
*I-295 NB Exit 56 - US 206/NJTPK/NJ 68 1/4 MILE sign
*I-295 NB near Exit 57 SCENIC OVERLOOK sign

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to your responses.

Interestingly enough, the signs on I-676 that are fabricated with Clearview, while used incorrectly, look much nicer than the installs of the signs on I-195 and I-295.

EDIT: I did a mockup of the US 206 sign since I fail at getting photos, and I fixed my issue with my Clearview fonts not working.