Minor things that bother you

[J N Winkler]

Wow, seriously?  Yeah.  Open any spreadsheet, or a new one, in Excel.  Press the down-arrow key on the keyboard, and it highlights the next cell down on the sheet.  Turn on Scroll Lock, and pressing the down-arrow key scrolls down the spreadsheet instead.

Excel is one of the few programs left that implements scroll lock.  (This makes me wonder:  what advantages does it have over PageUp/PageDown?)

I've had to develop strategies for dealing with autologout when scripting [tech babble logic script server mainframe dns beep beep boop beep abort retry fail

And also, my worst offending program is within a virtual desktop environment.

That makes it tough.  I've personally seen virtual desktop environments used only when it is desired to really lock down what users can do.  (One example is court files for our judicial district--registered users have differing levels of authorized access according to the cases they are involved in, and I suspect the county uses a VDE so it can prevent individuals with valid logins from obtaining sideways access to documents they are not entitled to see that might otherwise be available through a Web application.)  Unfortunately, this has the effect of blocking many types of automation solutions that allow the user to stop being a "click monkey."  I don't know if anyone has designed a software robot to work with resources held captive within VDEs.

[kphoger]

Excel is one of the few programs left that implements scroll lock.  (This makes me wonder:  what advantages does it have over PageUp/PageDown?)

At least in Excel, PgUp and PgDn scroll and entire page at a time, where as ScrLk+↑ and ScrLk+↓ scroll only one cell at a time.

I've personally seen virtual desktop environments used only when it is desired to really lock down what users can do.  (One example is court files for our judicial district--registered users have differing levels of authorized access according to the cases they are involved in, and I suspect the county uses a VDE so it can prevent individuals with valid logins from obtaining sideways access to documents they are not entitled to see that might otherwise be available through a Web application.)  Unfortunately, this has the effect of blocking many types of automation solutions that allow the user to stop being a "click monkey."  I don't know if anyone has designed a software robot to work with resources held captive within VDEs.

Technically, I misrepresented the environment.  I do use an Intuit virtual desktop at work in order to access QuickBooks, but that isn't the environment I actually had in mind.  Rather, it's a program within an Azure cloud desktop, which I use to access MSO programs.  I see cloud desktops being described as virtual desktops, but my limited understanding is that they don't operate exactly the same.  Perhaps someone more computer-savvy could chime in on that one.

[roadman65]

The Endless Circle that you get when a window on your PC is trying to open.  To me I hate it as it don't give you a yes, no, or maybe to why your computer is so slow or if it has ability to open the window.

[kphoger]

The Endless Circle that you get when a window on your PC is trying to open.  To me I hate it as it don't give you a yes, no, or maybe to why your computer is so slow or if it has ability to open the window.

I'd settle for a circle, on those occasions when I click on an icon and nothing happens for two minutes.  Did it register?  Click again, and I might end up with two of the same program open.  Don't click again, and I might sit there for two more minutes for no good reason.

[hotdogPi]

On the other hand, using a Mac, it won't even let you have two of the same program open. Attempting to do so just puts the existing one in front. I strongly prefer this over Windows' system.

[JayhawkCO]

On the other hand, using a Mac, it won't even let you have two of the same program open. Attempting to do so just puts the existing one in front. I strongly prefer this over Windows' system.

I personally disagree. If I need to have two different spreadsheets open or even two different windows of Chrome, it's much nicer on Windows to be able to alt+tab back and forth.

[US 89]

Wait, Scroll Lock actually does something? Today I learned.

Wow, seriously?  Yeah.  Open any spreadsheet, or a new one, in Excel.  Press the down-arrow key on the keyboard, and it highlights the next cell down on the sheet.  Turn on Scroll Lock, and pressing the down-arrow key scrolls down the spreadsheet instead.

I've somehow never used Excel on a PC desktop. I've only ever used it on my MacBook Air laptop or an iMac desktop - which lack a scroll lock function as far as I know. Although I do use a PC desktop at work now, these days I usually use Google Sheets as I can continue working on anything on my laptop at home should I need to.

[Scott5114]

Re: scroll lock: it was considered a useless enough key that at the casino I worked at, we had two different computers at each workstation (one was provided by a vendor to run their proprietary software for redeeming only tickets created by that vendor's machines; all others were processed through the main computer) that shared a keyboard. One swapped the keyboard from one to the other by double-striking Scroll Lock. I think that probably accounts for 98% of my intentional Scroll Lock keypresses over the course of my lifetime.

(On a related note, has anyone ever actually found a use for Pause/Break in the wild?)

Re: circular loading notifications: What was it that caused the universal "loading" animation to go to an abstract circle, rather than the 90s-era animated hourglass that would turn over? I feel like the hourglass is a more intuitive way of representing that information.

KDE used to have a loading animation where the icon of the application that was loading would bounce up and down next to the cursor arrow, like a basketball being dribbled. I always thought that was a pretty charming, if cheesy, way of communicating what was going on. That no longer animates, now it just displays statically next to the cursor arrow.

On the other hand, using a Mac, it won't even let you have two of the same program open. Attempting to do so just puts the existing one in front. I strongly prefer this over Windows' system.

I personally disagree. If I need to have two different spreadsheets open or even two different windows of Chrome, it's much nicer on Windows to be able to alt+tab back and forth.

Same here–there are rare, but still existent, situations in which it is necessary to have two instances of the same program open in two separate processes, e.g. because one doesn't want certain session-wide environment settings to cross-pollinate between two different contexts. Further, I run two Firefox windows spawned from the same process as part of my standard setup–I work from home, so one is for personal-use tabs and the other for business-use. Currently, I even have a third window I'm doing a PHP programming project in (containing whichever page I'm debugging at the time, and a bunch of random tabs where I'm looking up some bit of syntax).

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior. (On KDE, one can instruct the taskbar to group multiple windows spawned from the same process; I tend to disable this feature because it makes it more difficult for me to find the precise window I want.)

[kphoger]

I've somehow never used Excel on a PC desktop. I've only ever used it on my MacBook Air laptop or an iMac desktop - which lack a scroll lock function as far as I know. Although I do use a PC desktop at work now, these days I usually use Google Sheets as I can continue working on anything on my laptop at home should I need to.

Google Sheets is for people who want to use Excel but don't know how to use Excel.  There are so many features missing from Google Sheets, that I avoid it like the plague.

[ZLoth]

Re: scroll lock: it was considered a useless enough key that at the casino I worked at, we had two different computers at each workstation (one was provided by a vendor to run their proprietary software for redeeming only tickets created by that vendor's machines; all others were processed through the main computer) that shared a keyboard. One swapped the keyboard from one to the other by double-striking Scroll Lock. I think that probably accounts for 98% of my intentional Scroll Lock keypresses over the course of my lifetime.

(On a related note, has anyone ever actually found a use for Pause/Break in the wild?)

You had a KVM switch, and double-hitting Scroll-Lock switched between computers. Also, Excel uses Scroll-Lock to prevent panning of large spreadsheets.

As for Pause/Break... uhhh.... it does nothing for me. I'm still wondering why it hasn't been obsoleted.

[kphoger]

(On a related note, has anyone ever actually found a use for Pause/Break in the wild?)

As for Pause/Break... uhhh.... it does nothing for me. I'm still wondering why it hasn't been obsoleted.

If you're using Windows, then you can use [⊞ Win]+[Pause|Break] as a hotkey to open up the Settings panel.

Also...

Do you ever run ping tests in Command Prompt?  I do with some frequency;  if our internet seems to be going in and out, I run a ping test to check for packet loss.  A couple of years ago, in fact, all of our signal levels were good but I was still seeing some packet loss, and that prompted a mainline ticket to be put in, and the line crew eventually found an issue at the headend.

Anyway, I didn't know this until researching an answer to your question, but...  While the ping test is running, you can hit [Pause|Break], and it will pause the series of ping requests;  then hit [Pause|Break] again to resume sending ping requests.  Also, if you hit [Ctrl]+[Pause|Break] at any point, it will return data for the results so far but then still keep sending ping requests until it reaches the total you specified.  You can see this illustrated in the screenshot below, where I sent 30 ping requests to the Yahoo! IP and then hit [Ctrl]+[Pause|Break] three times in the middle of it running.

[ZLoth]

I need to test if this works with pathping.

[J N Winkler]

Re: circular loading notifications: What was it that caused the universal "loading" animation to go to an abstract circle, rather than the 90s-era animated hourglass that would turn over? I feel like the hourglass is a more intuitive way of representing that information.

The wait cursor (Microsoft's formal name for it) changed from the hourglass to the blue circle (sometimes called "blue circle of death") with Vista.  I haven't seen a formal name for the spinning balls that typically show when more recent versions of Windows are first starting, but apparently they are considered a type of throbber.

If you're using Windows, then you can use [⊞ Win]+[Pause|Break] as a hotkey to open up the Settings panel.

Specifically, it opens a panel (Windows 10) or dialog (Windows 7) with specs for the system.  "Break Windows" is a useful mnemonic for the key combination since it gives access to other dialog boxes that can in fact be used to make configuration changes that cripple the system.

As for Pause/Break... uhhh.... it does nothing for me. I'm still wondering why it hasn't been obsoleted.

Many keyboards, including the one built into my current laptop (purchased 2021), no longer have labelled Break keys.  (On my laptop, Pause is on F11 and scroll lock on F12.)  I presume it is still possible to elicit Break through a keystroke combination, but would have no idea how to do so without hunting down documentation.

[jakeroot]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

[JayhawkCO]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

Can you alt+tab (or something similar) between two different browser windows?

[Bruce]

Here in Washington, there are two outstanding natural disasters that threaten portions of the state: (1) earthquakes, and (2) lahar flows.

We're sadly really really behind on tsunami preparedness. A few cities have even rejected funding for vertical evacuation shelters built into their schools, even though they have proven successful in Japan and have been built in the US.

[hotdogPi]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

Can you alt+tab (or something similar) between two different browser windows?

On my laptop, swiping down with four fingers shows all windows of that program, even if they're in different desktops, while swiping up with four fingers shows everything (not just that program) on that desktop. Then you can click the one you want. Left and right with four fingers switch between desktops; this works even after I've swiped up and am able to view everything.

[JayhawkCO]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

Can you alt+tab (or something similar) between two different browser windows?

On my laptop, swiping down with four fingers shows all windows of that program, even if they're in different desktops, while swiping up with four fingers shows everything (not just that program) on that desktop. Then you can click the one you want. Left and right with four fingers switch between desktops; this works even after I've swiped up and am able to view everything.

That strikes me as requiring a lot more coordination than just alt+tabbing.

[jakeroot]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

Can you alt+tab (or something similar) between two different browser windows?

Control + down. Brings up all the windows for that app only. Command + tab shows your open apps. Can't remember how to show all windows for all apps, though I'm sure there's a way...haven't actually used a Mac for a while.

That strikes me as requiring a lot more coordination than just alt+tabbing.

Mac gestures take some getting used to, but there's a lot, and it's quite powerful in practice. It's not really convoluted.

[jakeroot]

Here in Washington, there are two outstanding natural disasters that threaten portions of the state: (1) earthquakes, and (2) lahar flows.

We're sadly really really behind on tsunami preparedness. A few cities have even rejected funding for vertical evacuation shelters built into their schools, even though they have proven successful in Japan and have been built in the US.

Such a great point that I completely forgot to mention tsunamis. I don't hear about preparation for those nearly as often.

[JayhawkCO]

Didn't know what to quote so I just picked this.

Given that there are plenty of use cases for multiple windows of the same program being open, enforcing only one per program by edict of the window manager is nothing less than brain-damaged behavior.

Despite earlier comments that may have alluded to the contrary, you can have multiple windows of a program open on Mac. Eg, multiple web browser windows. That's been a feature of Mac OS for as long as it's been a feature of any OS.

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

Can you alt+tab (or something similar) between two different browser windows?

Control + down. Brings up all the windows for that app only. Command + tab shows your open apps. Can't remember how to show all windows for all apps, though I'm sure there's a way...haven't actually used a Mac for a while.

That strikes me as requiring a lot more coordination than just alt+tabbing.

Mac gestures take some getting used to, but there's a lot, and it's quite powerful in practice. It's not really convoluted.

Sure, but when I want two different windows "back to back", i.e. just toggling between the two, alt+tab works great. It even works great (when you get your rhythm) between three windows. As I remember, on the Mac, it brings them up in the same order so you can't "rearrange".

[jakeroot]

Sure, but when I want two different windows "back to back", i.e. just toggling between the two, alt+tab works great. It even works great (when you get your rhythm) between three windows. As I remember, on the Mac, it brings them up in the same order so you can't "rearrange".

Most common for Mac users are separate desktops that you switch between (using keyboard or swipe gestures), rather than a bunch of windows on the same desktop. It's effectively the same thing. It's very helpful when you want to work full screen. It also works when running Windows (the OS), which can run in its own desktop.

Still, if you'd rather work with one desktop and require alt-tabbing, you can install an app that adds that functionality. And you can change it to any keyboard shortcut.

[Scott5114]

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

That is insane. Even Linux, which loves its command line to bits, doesn't require using it for window management!

[jakeroot]

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

That is insane. Even Linux, which loves its command line to bits, doesn't require using it for window management!

I don't mean multiple windows of one instance of a program. I mean multiple instances of the same program. Eg, three instances of Adobe Photoshop open simultaneously rather than one instance with three windows. Mac OS supports this the same as other OS's, it just takes running a simple command line code. Which is fair, since most users don't need to do this. And in fact, most users probably should avoid doing this for obvious reasons, which is why they probably make it harder.

[Scott5114]

Also: you can have multiple of the same program open. It just requires the use of command line code.

That is insane. Even Linux, which loves its command line to bits, doesn't require using it for window management!

I don't mean multiple windows of one instance of a program. I mean multiple instances of the same program. Eg, three instances of Adobe Photoshop open simultaneously rather than one instance with three windows. Mac OS supports this the same as other OS's, it just takes running a simple command line code. Which is fair, since most users don't need to do this. And in fact, most users probably should avoid doing this for obvious reasons, which is why they probably make it harder.

That's still insane. If I want another window in the same process, I click whatever "new window" button the program makes available (on Inkscape this is simply the new document button, on Firefox there is an explicit "new window" button). If I want another process, I select it from the launcher menu again. I don't even have to touch the command line (though of course there is a way to do it from there if you just want to).

I can't believe Mac managed to screw up a simple GUI task and require using the command line as a fall back. That's Linux's schtick, dammit!