Florida State Road History

[florida]

What were these cartographers trying to show? [Kirkman and Sand Lake, 1960]

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00016517/00001/1x?search=orange&vo=14&vp=1732,3352

[NE2]

Same thing that's still there. The interchange was built for Martin Marietta.

[florida]

The way it was drawn...rectangular with what looks like no access.

[NE2]

Yes, maps have errors.

[route29]

Were there ever any plans to link up the sections of SR-2 from SR-189 to SR-81?  Was 2 planned to go west of 189?  And what's up with 602 in Okaloosa County?  I could kind of understand it if Florida based their 3-digit numbers off of a parent 1-d or 2-d route, which they don't.

[NE2]

Were there ever any plans to link up the sections of SR-2 from SR-189 to SR-81?

They do link up through short overlaps.

Was 2 planned to go west of 189?

Pre-1945 SR 165 was planned to continue to Jay: http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/2800/f2839/f2839z.htm http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/2700/f2753/f2753z.htm

And what's up with 602 in Okaloosa County?

I don't know. It apparently appeared between 1960 and 1967 as a state road (Okaloosa also had an 856 on Mooney Road in Fort Walton Beach, apparently created in 1972). There are a number of examples of current or former out-of-place routes, e.g. 112 in Miami and 4xx and 7xx in the Panhandle, but the two in Okaloosa strangely seem to be numbered off a parent (856 was near 85B and 85C). It's possible that it had been a number in an old countywide system.

I could kind of understand it if Florida based their 3-digit numbers off of a parent 1-d or 2-d route, which they don't.

There was the recent 883, but otherwise they don't do that.

[Alex]

Was 2 planned to go west of 189?

Pre-1945 SR 165 was planned to continue to Jay: http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/2800/f2839/f2839z.htm http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/pages/2700/f2753/f2753z.htm

And that 1940 DOT map shows a bridge over the Escambia River at McDavid that the Rand McNally Road Atlas shows every year although its not been there in ages... Question is, when was it removed?

[florida]

RE: SR 2

Maps, including reprints up to at least 1960, show SR 2 shielded in Santa Rosa County from SR 4 to the Okaloosa County Line along Hurricane Lake Rd (East of Munson). However, maps of Okaloosa County do not have SR 2 shielded west of SR 189 during any time frame.

[NE2]

SR 2 was defined in the 1945 renumbering as "From a point on SR 4 approximately three miles East of Munson Northeasterly via Blackman to junction with SR 85...".

[D-Dey65]

Yes, maps have errors.

Like Hernando County Road 576 being described as Hernando County Road 420. I don't doubt that it ever had that designation years ago, but not in the past 13 years I've been in Florida.

Somewhere I also have a map of a pre World War II proposal to connect the two sections of what is today Citrus County Road 39, with a road along the Withlacoochee River that was never built.

[Morriswa]

In 2010, US 883 was established along the old U.S. 331 at Freeport.

"US 883"?  The highest-numbered US highway ever was the now-defunct US 830.

[Alex]

In 2010, US 883 was established along the old U.S. 331 at Freeport.

"US 883"?  The highest-numbered US highway ever was the now-defunct US 830.

That was a post designed to poke fun at the official 2010 Florida Highway map (the 2012 is pretty bad in its own right...)

Lest us not forget Florida's US 909 and 915...

[Morriswa]

Where in the world is that?!

[NE2]

Florida.

[Morriswa]

Yes, Alex said it is in Florida.  I want to know where in Florida?

[NE2]

Where State Roads 909 and 915 meet.

[agentsteel53]

Yes, Alex said it is in Florida.  I want to know where in Florida?

not only is it within Florida, but it's also within the boundaries of Florida.  that should help narrow it down for you.

[kurumi]

It's probably right here on US 922.

[Fred Defender]

"When the 1977 realignment happened, roads that were transferred to the counties kept their number, but as county roads. This is why a fractured, numbered county road system exists."

Didn't the state secondary system also have a fractured road network? There are 5 different CR 399's right now for instance. Or where their implied overlaps that joined all the different segments, or when they made the county road network, did they simply reuse numbers to eliminate suffixed highways and to accommodate numbers for other areas?

The 1977 realignment also coincided with the change from "Keys shields" to the current state highway sign design.

"The 1955 legislation capped the total mileage of the Primary Road system at 11,300 miles..."

Is there any kind of cap still in place? Seems when state road mileage is transferred from a county, that the county must gain something from the state. Or is that not practiced here in every jurisdictional change?

Great article, I enjoyed reading it and learned a bit more about the state road system.

Resurrecting another old thread. You've gotta love "SEARCH". As a relative newbie, I found this thread interesting. With respect to Florida's old secondary state route system being "fractured":

Without a doubt. I live north of Gainesville and spend a good bit of time 2-wheeling the area. There are a number of CR numbers that exist in multiple segments. Some make sense (sort of); others do not. Alachua CR237 extends from US441 in Hague (north of Gainesville) to SR235 southwest of Lacrosse. CR1493 extends northeast of LaCrosse from SR121. when it crosses the Santa Fe River into Bradford County, it becomes CR237 which terminates at SR18. then there's the dea-end section of Union County 237 which extends south from SR100 several miles east of Lake Butler (actually, I am not sure that it really dead ends or if the pavement ends - but I believe that there is a "Dead End" or "No Outlet" sign just off or 100). CR 237 jogs east for a short distance then turns north off of 100 to connect with the (more or less) east-west section of 121 south of Raiford.

Speaking of Alachua County...does anyone know if Alachua County Road #1491 used to be a state highway of any kind? It runs about seven miles from CR236 just east of I-75, heads north then east to connect with CR241 just south of the Santa Fe River. I've not been able to find it on any old maps so it may well have been an unnumbered county road. BTW: It's a kick-*ss motorcycle road if you're a fellow 2-wheeler.

While we're on the subject...the southbound I-75 mileage sign just past Exit #414 indicated STATE Route 236 9 miles ahead as recently as 2003 when we first moved to North Florida.

One more that, perhaps, someone can answer: Was there really a S-791 in Union County? It is a short segment which parallels CR241 north of 18 and connects to 241A. There is a weight limit sign on this road which dates to the late-1960's and it is definitely old DOT (or, perhaps, SRD) vintage. There's also a Union County 796 south of Lake Butler. FDOT/SRD did not use numbers this high in this part of Florida, did they?

[NE2]

Speaking of Alachua County...does anyone know if Alachua County Road #1491 used to be a state highway of any kind? It runs about seven miles from CR236 just east of I-75, heads north then east to connect with CR241 just south of the Santa Fe River. I've not been able to find it on any old maps so it may well have been an unnumbered county road.

See the last column here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_county_roads_in_Alachua_County,_Florida
CR 1491 is one of the few I haven't found on old maps.

One more that, perhaps, someone can answer: Was there really a S-791 in Union County? It is a short segment which parallels CR241 north of 18 and connects to 241A. There is a weight limit sign on this road which dates to the late-1960's and it is definitely old DOT (or, perhaps, SRD) vintage. There's also a Union County 796 south of Lake Butler.

Yes, those were SR 791 and SR 796 (there were also SR 793 and SR 796A). SR 795 was in Suwannee County (as was an older SR 417).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_county_roads_in_Union_County,_Florida

FDOT/SRD did not use numbers this high in this part of Florida, did they?

Near the end of the expansion they used whatever numbers were free, not caring where they came from. See the current 7xx routes near Pensacola.

[Fred Defender]

Near the end of the expansion they used whatever numbers were free, not caring where they came from. See the current 7xx routes near Pensacola.

Thanks for the info. Never knew that.

So...CR1491 has you stumped, huh? Do I win a prize?

[Fred Defender]

Somewhere I also have a map of a pre World War II proposal to connect the two sections of what is today Citrus County Road 39, with a road along the Withlacoochee River that was never built.

I haven't been to Port Charlotte in years. And you guys (especially NE2), I'm sure, know this...but when they first built I-75 in Charlotte County in the early-1980's, Toledo Blade Boulevard was originally going to be designated as SR39 (I do not believe that it was ever signed as such), apparently with the intent to eventually extend it to connect with SR/CR39 in Manatee County.

[NE2]

So...CR1491 has you stumped, huh? Do I win a prize?

No, it was just never a state road.

[FLRoads]

Somewhere I also have a map of a pre World War II proposal to connect the two sections of what is today Citrus County Road 39, with a road along the Withlacoochee River that was never built.

I haven't been to Port Charlotte in years. And you guys (especially NE2), I'm sure, know this...but when they first built I-75 in Charlotte County in the early-1980's, Toledo Blade Boulevard was originally going to be designated as SR39 (I do not believe that it was ever signed as such), apparently with the intent to eventually extend it to connect with SR/CR39 in Manatee County.

You are correct in that Toledo Blade was never signed as SR 39 but the original Right-of-Way plans do indicate that it was intended to be a state road. While working for Sarasota County I had access to all their ROW plans and came across everything they had on I-75's construction. I also remember as a kid seeing the stamping on the median jersey barrier between the mainline overpasses (at the edge of the abutments) as being "STATE ROAD 39". Of course it's now stamped "TOLEDO BLADE BLVD".

There were a few rumbles earlier this year about extending Toledo Blade northward from its current end to SR 72, but most people are afraid if it gets built then it will open up the land to be developed. I say it needs to be built purely to have an alternative to get north from the Port Charlotte/North Port area (for the occasional time that I-75 traffic is backed up).

On a side note, some of the other ROW plans I was able to read while at the County were plans for University Parkway along the Sarasota/Manatee County line. Signed along I-75 as County Road 610 (formally signed as CR 750), original plans called the route State Road 610. So it was originally a part of the state system but when the state did its overhaul in the late 70's University Parkway was handed to the county, thus the reason for the CR 610 designation.

Now if I could only figure out why other exits (195, 193, 191, and 182) along I-75 show county designations when the roads themselves are not signed (sans River Road which is still considered CR 777 toward Englewood). My thought is they are internal numbers from Sarasota County but I found nothing to support that theory in any of their databases or other materials).

[formulanone]

So...CR1491 has you stumped, huh? Do I win a prize?

No, it was just never a state road.

Seems like it was loosely put together from a few local roads. Why 1491? I don't know - it's really in Florida's 200-300 Belt, and 1xxx routes are usually in Leon County. But I guess the 2000s seem to be mostly applied to the First Coast area.

Still a fun road, though.

For that matter, why use 4dcr (4-digit county road numbers...someone had to coin it) when there's still many left in the three-digit pile?