Washington

[Bruce]

How is the state of Washington going to fund maintaining its roads and bridges?: https://jalopnik.com/washington-state-wont-pay-11b-to-fix-roads-bridges-1850963379.

VMT is pretty much the only way. An income tax would require a large campaign to get the public on board, property tax is capped by the constitution, and sales tax is just so regressive and already used for other very important services (such as transit). Tolls and congestion charges could also work, but they aren't equitable for some groups.

[kkt]

How is the state of Washington going to fund maintaining its roads and bridges?: https://jalopnik.com/washington-state-wont-pay-11b-to-fix-roads-bridges-1850963379.

WashDOT could start closing bridges that are problematic, with big signs that say "CLOSED DUE TO LACK OF FUNDS" with the office phone number of that district's legislators.

[TEG24601]

How is the state of Washington going to fund maintaining its roads and bridges?: https://jalopnik.com/washington-state-wont-pay-11b-to-fix-roads-bridges-1850963379.

The easiest solution would be to reinstate a reasonable license tab fee.  But rather than base it on the value of the vehicle, base it on the weight and impact.  Heavier vehicles pay more, and commercial vehicles pay more than that, along with trailers, campers, and boats; all of which have an impact on the roads.  The rates would simply be based on the current fuel tax, as expected per year, per vehicle, and then eliminate the gas tax.  Re-open all of the Weighstations, yes, including the one on SR 20, and assess out of state transport vehicles appropriately.

[kkt]

I thought the very low cap on license tab fees was passed as a constitutional amendment, so another constitutional amendment would be needed to take in more money or change the way it's calculated.

[jay8g]

As the article mentions, the issue isn't that there isn't funding available, it's that the legislature doesn't have any interest in allocating it to maintenance -- every year, they take the funding that WSDOT proposed to use for maintenance and redirect it towards pet projects. There would be plenty of money available for maintenance if they weren't spending insane amounts of money building and widening urban freeways (I-405, SR 167, SR 509, US 395, etc).

The other big drain on their budget that the article didn't mention is the court-ordered fish passage work, much of which seems to be massively overengineered to make regulators (and the tribes) happy. And then there's the massive cost increases caused in part by a lack of engineers (and contractors), along with massive increases in permit requirements that are also causing delays on projects that actually do have funding.

So yeah, it's all a big mess, and it's nowhere near as simple as that article tries to make it sound. I still think the biggest obstacle is the lack of political interest in basic things like maintenance in favor of shiny new things.

[TEG24601]

I thought the very low cap on license tab fees was passed as a constitutional amendment, so another constitutional amendment would be needed to take in more money or change the way it's calculated.

It was simply an initiative.  An initiative that was thrown out in court, but the legislature put it in place because of how popular it was (along with the maximum 1% tax increase without a vote). Both decisions are having horrible consequences today.  Costs for cities are growing between 5% and 10% each year, but they can only increase their Ad Valorem (Property Tax) levy 1%, and anything above 1%, not only has to be voted on by the people (which is expensive), it can only be for a set period of time, and for a particular project or expense.


Also, the old system was based on a vehicle's estimated value, often using KBB, at the highest possible value for he model year, usually without taking into account accessories or wear and tear. My proposal would be based on either number of axels, weight, or a combination of the two, with a higher calculation for those vehicles that are for purposes other than personal use (delivery trucks, repair trucks, Taxi/RideShare, etc), with decent fines for those mis-clasifying their vehicles to get around the fees.  It would also eliminate the Hybrid and EV penalty, and instead they would pay by their weight, and it would be closer to their fair share of their impact, especially in the rural communities, were some roads are well built.


The real concern is that unless someone in the legislature actually pays attention, the island communities are going to loose a lot of funding, as Capron Funds, are currently only allocated from the gas taxes, and those communities rely on those funds to maintain their infrastructure, as they don't have a many gas stations (or any in a few cases), to collect their share from.  So any future program that pays for infrastructure needs to include support for them.

[jakeroot]

Weight-based vehicle registration costs make much more sense to me. Something heavy will increase wear-and-tear on the road much faster than a smaller vehicle, and larger vehicles seem to be more deadly for pedestrians, itself a recent epidemic. The current system (especially considering CAFE standards) seems to almost reward the purchasing of larger vehicles.

Here in Japan, vehicle registration is based on, among several things, weight. Super small and light vehicles (kei) are the cheapest in every imaginable way (cost to purchase, register, and operate), with costs going up significantly from there. Vehicles like a half-ton Toyota Tundra (not sold in Japan but a fairly common import) are "100 series" registration, the highest weight-based registration bracket, and cost much more per year to register than even regular vehicles (like my 300 series station wagon), and several times more compared to kei cars.

This all being said, toll-free expressways are exceedingly rare in Japan (and most are very expensive), and even basic kei-car registrations are more expensive than typical registrations back in Washington, especially considering the required inspections and other taxes that are levied here. So the issue in WA may be not just how we levy taxes, but also that we don't collect near enough of it.

[Alps]

This all being said, toll-free expressways are exceedingly rare in Japan (and most are very expensive), and even basic kei-car registrations are more expensive than typical registrations back in Washington, especially considering the required inspections and other taxes that are levied here. So the issue in WA may be not just how we levy taxes, but also that we don't collect near enough of it.

Not to go OT, but does this mean I can't drive through the building in Japan without paying a toll? Can tourists arrange tolls easily?

[jakeroot]

This all being said, toll-free expressways are exceedingly rare in Japan (and most are very expensive), and even basic kei-car registrations are more expensive than typical registrations back in Washington, especially considering the required inspections and other taxes that are levied here. So the issue in WA may be not just how we levy taxes, but also that we don't collect near enough of it.

Not to go OT, but does this mean I can't drive through the building in Japan without paying a toll? Can tourists arrange tolls easily?

I'm quite certain all of the elevated expressways in Osaka are tolled. Perhaps a bus passes through though! Tolls are easily paid by cash...usually. Unfortunately the ramp you're thinking of is ETC-only, but all rental agencies offer ETC cards, and all tolls can be paid upon return of the vehicle (the tolls are stored on the card, and are usually displayed on the screens in the car when you pay them, and the rental agencies have machines that can read the card...it's pretty slick).

[TEG24601]

This all being said, toll-free expressways are exceedingly rare in Japan (and most are very expensive), and even basic kei-car registrations are more expensive than typical registrations back in Washington, especially considering the required inspections and other taxes that are levied here. So the issue in WA may be not just how we levy taxes, but also that we don't collect near enough of it.

Not to go OT, but does this mean I can't drive through the building in Japan without paying a toll? Can tourists arrange tolls easily?

I'm quite certain all of the elevated expressways in Osaka are tolled. Perhaps a bus passes through though! Tolls are easily paid by cash...usually. Unfortunately the ramp you're thinking of is ETC-only, but all rental agencies offer ETC cards, and all tolls can be paid upon return of the vehicle (the tolls are stored on the card, and are usually displayed on the screens in the car when you pay them, and the rental agencies have machines that can read the card...it's pretty slick).

I was under the impression that the expressways in Japan are also privately owned and operated.  They did have to purchase the right too build them from the government, but they are not owned or maintained by the government.

[jakeroot]

I think we are getting a bit OT here. Oh well...

This all being said, toll-free expressways are exceedingly rare in Japan (and most are very expensive), and even basic kei-car registrations are more expensive than typical registrations back in Washington, especially considering the required inspections and other taxes that are levied here. So the issue in WA may be not just how we levy taxes, but also that we don't collect near enough of it.

Not to go OT, but does this mean I can't drive through the building in Japan without paying a toll? Can tourists arrange tolls easily?

I'm quite certain all of the elevated expressways in Osaka are tolled. Perhaps a bus passes through though! Tolls are easily paid by cash...usually. Unfortunately the ramp you're thinking of is ETC-only, but all rental agencies offer ETC cards, and all tolls can be paid upon return of the vehicle (the tolls are stored on the card, and are usually displayed on the screens in the car when you pay them, and the rental agencies have machines that can read the card...it's pretty slick).

I was under the impression that the expressways in Japan are also privately owned and operated.  They did have to purchase the right too build them from the government, but they are not owned or maintained by the government.

They are run by state-owned privately-run corporations (NEXCO West, Central, and East). But the expressways built before 2005 were built and operated by the government as part of Japan Highways. It was broken up similar to JNR in 1987, when it was split into JR.

[Bruce]

And to bring us back on topic: the 2024 Highway System Plan draft is now published online and ready for public comment. The last one was published in 2007, so it's long overdue for an update.

WSDOT's recommendation is to devote $17.3 billion in new funding (through 2041) to repair and maintenance, $5.4 billion to safety & efficiency, and $1.4 billion on expansion. These figures would be on top of what is already approved by the state government and was included in the Move Ahead Washington package.

[Amaury]

As of yesterday morning, WSDOT is currently dealing with an outrage affecting 99% of their website, sans the homepage and a few other pages. In addition, all of their traffic and mountain pass cameras, among other services, are down. From reading their Facebook posts, it seems like this was intentionally done to cause disruption. What someone could possibly get from disabling cameras, for example, I don't know.

In the meantime, they did provide an interesting hand drawn graphic to show what weather and roads were like yesterday.

https://www.facebook.com/WSDOT/posts/pfbid02iPaZA6djSRevQGynayiBLZkju7KWJFtTi3dYvhiusKa4gCYqcotf2LuC99Qws6BPl

UPDATE 7:08 p.m. Tuesday: We continue to work to restore our web pages and app and investigate the cause. We appreciate everyone's patience and we'll update as we get more details. Until then we'll do the best we can to share info on our social platforms, and you can trust that I'll have my pen and notebook ready to capture any important images.

ORIGINAL POST: Our cameras, website and app have been down since early this morning. There is no estimate for when they will be back up. Our IT continues to work on it. Yes, before you ask, we tried turning it on and off first, then gave the monitor and keyboard a few whacks. Neither worked. With cameras down, this is what it looks like out there.

https://www.facebook.com/WSDOT/posts/pfbid0svWbmRkqCv3QK4Vq9BKqjWZbVfZHY6tQ8FDi5PobxDqaQeSFn3639g6B9MgboaRCl

We continue to work to restore our website and app following Tuesday's disruption that has affected our travel map, traffic cameras, ferry vessel watch, mountain pass reports, online freight permits and other services. The outages were caused by a security incident Tuesday that appeared aimed at interrupting the flow of travel-related information. There is no indication any other systems were affected and the cause is under investigation. We will share more information as it becomes available.

We know this disruption is frustrating and we thank you for your patience. We are working to get everything restored as quickly as possible and in the meantime we will continue to provide updates on our social media platforms.

[vdeane]

WSDOT is currently dealing with an outrage affecting 99% of their website

Someone must have been really angry then.

[compdude787]

And to bring us back on topic: the 2024 Highway System Plan draft is now published online and ready for public comment. The last one was published in 2007, so it's long overdue for an update.

WSDOT's recommendation is to devote $17.3 billion in new funding (through 2041) to repair and maintenance, $5.4 billion to safety & efficiency, and $1.4 billion on expansion. These figures would be on top of what is already approved by the state government and was included in the Move Ahead Washington package.

Nice to see mostly maintenance funding, as that is really more important than highway expansion. However, we all know politicians love ribbon cuttings more than doing maintenance, so I bet we'll see a greater percentage of money going to building and expanding new highways.

I'm curious what projects that they want to fund for expansion? I skimmed the document but I didn't see a list of projects or anything like that.

[nexus73]

And to bring us back on topic: the 2024 Highway System Plan draft is now published online and ready for public comment. The last one was published in 2007, so it's long overdue for an update.

WSDOT's recommendation is to devote $17.3 billion in new funding (through 2041) to repair and maintenance, $5.4 billion to safety & efficiency, and $1.4 billion on expansion. These figures would be on top of what is already approved by the state government and was included in the Move Ahead Washington package.

Nice to see mostly maintenance funding, as that is really more important than highway expansion. However, we all know politicians love ribbon cuttings more than doing maintenance, so I bet we'll see a greater percentage of money going to building and expanding new highways.

I'm curious what projects that they want to fund for expansion? I skimmed the document but I didn't see a list of projects or anything like that.

It would be good to see I-5 6-laned all the way in Washington...one gap remains between Seattle and PDX.

[TEG24601]

And to bring us back on topic: the 2024 Highway System Plan draft is now published online and ready for public comment. The last one was published in 2007, so it's long overdue for an update.

WSDOT's recommendation is to devote $17.3 billion in new funding (through 2041) to repair and maintenance, $5.4 billion to safety & efficiency, and $1.4 billion on expansion. These figures would be on top of what is already approved by the state government and was included in the Move Ahead Washington package.

Nice to see mostly maintenance funding, as that is really more important than highway expansion. However, we all know politicians love ribbon cuttings more than doing maintenance, so I bet we'll see a greater percentage of money going to building and expanding new highways.

I'm curious what projects that they want to fund for expansion? I skimmed the document but I didn't see a list of projects or anything like that.

It would be good to see I-5 6-laned all the way in Washington...one gap remains between Seattle and PDX.

If for no other reason than safety and efficiency.


It would be nice to have some serious discussions about replacing some of our dangerous or very inefficient bridges.  A new routing off of Whidbey Island would great, as the Deception and Canoe Pass bridges are reaching 100 years old, and re-directing traffic to another route would improve safety and economy.  As would replacing the I-90 bridge in Vantage, to span the gorge itself, instead of dropping down to the water level.  Those are two I'm most familiar with, but I know there are more.

[kkt]

And to bring us back on topic: the 2024 Highway System Plan draft is now published online and ready for public comment. The last one was published in 2007, so it's long overdue for an update.

WSDOT's recommendation is to devote $17.3 billion in new funding (through 2041) to repair and maintenance, $5.4 billion to safety & efficiency, and $1.4 billion on expansion. These figures would be on top of what is already approved by the state government and was included in the Move Ahead Washington package.

Nice to see mostly maintenance funding, as that is really more important than highway expansion. However, we all know politicians love ribbon cuttings more than doing maintenance, so I bet we'll see a greater percentage of money going to building and expanding new highways.

I'm curious what projects that they want to fund for expansion? I skimmed the document but I didn't see a list of projects or anything like that.

It would be good to see I-5 6-laned all the way in Washington...one gap remains between Seattle and PDX.

As well as from Mt. Vernon north.

[pderocco]

As would replacing the I-90 bridge in Vantage, to span the gorge itself, instead of dropping down to the water level.

If you're talking about staying up at 1000ft or so, that would take a two mile long bridge. I don't think that'll happen. And given that just downstream is a dam with no locks, I don't think there's any meaningful through traffic on the river that would need the clearance of a high bridge.

That's a piece of I-90 I've missed so far. It looks like a pretty spectacular crossing, especially when approaching it westbound.

[FrCorySticha]

That's a piece of I-90 I've missed so far. It looks like a pretty spectacular crossing, especially when approaching it westbound.

It absolutely is. Coming around the curve to see the gorge, descending along the side of the river, crossing on the Vantage Bridge, and climbing up the canyon out of the gorge is fantastic. Then you enter into the Kittitas Valley, which has it's own beauty with the mountains surrounding it.

[Bruce]

SR 520 has a new offramp:

https://twitter.com/wsdot_traffic/status/1735379428023169236

Avoids the 3-turn maneuver to get to Overlake Village.

[Plutonic Panda]

Some projects could be delayed if more funding isn't found: https://www.thecentersquare.com/washington/article_dde55640-9ddb-11ee-b195-cf7eb27ea5b8.html

[Bruce]

Surprise, reckless spending on expansion when we have a court-mandated culvert replacement backlog AND tons of maintenance to do is a bad idea. The State Highway Plan shows the realistic future for Washington and most of the country: we need to maintain what we can and not overbuild as we have for decades.

[Plutonic Panda]

Overbuild? What the fuck are you talking about. Roads in Washington can get very congested. If anything it's due to being under built. This is due to lack of proper funding. Not some hyperbolic nonsensical statement like "reckless expansion."

[kkt]

Show me a state with an increasing population, and I'll show you a state where traffic gets very congested.