TX: Ports to Plains corridor study

[The Ghostbuster]

Does the US 287 corridor north of Dumas really need to be upgraded into an Interstate corridor, such as Interstate 27N or Interstate 327? I think the most they may need to do is expand 287 to four lanes north of Stratford, but not upgrade it into a freeway.

[TheBox]

Does the US 287 corridor north of Dumas really need to be upgraded into an Interstate corridor, such as Interstate 27N or Interstate 327? I think the most they may need to do is expand 287 to four lanes north of Stratford, but not upgrade it into a freeway.

It's currently 2-lane undivided north of Stratford too, so yes but they won't anytime soon or for a long time for that matter in our lifetimes

[Bobby5280]

Currently it's not necessary to upgrade US-287 North of Dumas to Interstate standards. However, the highway needs to be modified in a manner where a potential Interstate upgrade is possible in the future. Bare minimum for the near term: US-287 needs to be a 4-lane divided highway from Stratford, TX thru Boise City, OK and up to Springfield, CO just for safety reasons alone, never mind VPD counts.

If the Ports to Plains Corridor is completed down to Del Rio and Laredo that will lead to more traffic taking US-287 North of Dumas into Colorado. Over the long term I-27 (or "I-27N") could be extended from Dumas to Limon. Until then the highway would have to exist in various interim phases.

[TheBox]

Just a basic recent article talking about how'll they'll get I-27: Ports to Plains passed to the house and then signed to law ASAP

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/Interstate-27-naming-bill

[Bobby5280]

The article has an interesting tid bit. They mention Laredo one day being the only port of entry with four Interstate corridors: I-35, I-69W, I-27 and I-2.

[The Ghostbuster]

We're probably a few decades from seeing Interstate 2 reach Laredo, and several decades from Interstate 27 from reaching the city. Those expecting to see four Interstates in the Laredo area may be in for a long wait.

[Bobby5280]

I don't think it's going to take that long to complete I-2. A bypass around Roma and Rio Grande City is in the planning stages. That's the most difficult segment between the current end of I-2 and Laredo. I think that bypass will be completed by the late 2030's at the latest. The rest of the future I-2 corridor between Roma and Laredo is mostly rural territory. I can see that being filled in with Interstate upgrades by 2050.

Certain developments could influence the time line. If there is a widespread crackdown on illegal immigration in the US that would likely result in a lot of cattle and agriculture businesses moving production into Mexico. Many of these operations depend heavily on migrant labor, like it or not. If all the manpower is in Mexico then we would be buying a hell of a lot of imported food.

[Molandfreak]

I'm not mad about 27E and 27W since they at least reconnect with each other, even if 27E is obviously the better thru route. But 27N? Come on. They could have gone with I-31 or I-23 for that stretch if they weren't happy with the three-digit designation.

[Bobby5280]

Realistically speaking, I don't see the I-27 main line being able to reach Raton, not as long as the development would depend on the New Mexico state government for significant amounts of the funding.

Chances are better for I-27 to be extended North into Colorado. But those chances are currently not all that much better. Colorado's state government appears to act as if the SE part of the state doesn't even exist. Their focus is along the I-25 corridor and points West of it. That's where the money is after all.

[-- US 175 --]

I remember years ago hearing about the stretch of US 64-US 87 west of Clayton being prone to snow closures during the winter.  It was always one of the first roads to close when a snow storm came through.  IDK if that will ever be a determining factor in where I-27 goes outside TX.  IMO, combining I-25 with traffic from I-27 at Raton Pass might not be the best thing in the wintertime.

And whoever came up with the "I-27N" labeling idea needs his mouth taped shut!

[The Ghostbuster]

If New Mexico won't fund improvements to their portion of US 87, maybe the northern terminus of Interstate 27 should remain at Interstate 40 in Amarillo. In lieu of extending Interstate 27 northward, US 287 should be widened to four lanes north of Stratford northward, with bypasses being built around the towns along the 87 and 287 corridors.

[edwaleni]

Realistically speaking, I don't see the I-27 main line being able to reach Raton, not as long as the development would depend on the New Mexico state government for significant amounts of the funding.

Chances are better for I-27 to be extended North into Colorado. But those chances are currently not all that much better. Colorado's state government appears to act as if the SE part of the state doesn't even exist. Their focus is along the I-25 corridor and points West of it. That's where the money is after all.

You are aware that it is already a 4 lane highway from the Texas border to the Raton city limits? Just not an interstate grade.

[TheBox]

Realistically speaking, I don't see the I-27 main line being able to reach Raton, not as long as the development would depend on the New Mexico state government for significant amounts of the funding.

Chances are better for I-27 to be extended North into Colorado. But those chances are currently not all that much better. Colorado's state government appears to act as if the SE part of the state doesn't even exist. Their focus is along the I-25 corridor and points West of it. That's where the money is after all.

You are aware that it is already a 4 lane highway from the Texas border to the Raton city limits? Just not an interstate grade.

4-lane divided between Hartley TX and Raton NM too, which is more than I remembered west of Dumas TX; speaking of.

The one exception being between Hartley and Dumas, everywhere else just needs a bypass, replace at-grade intersections with overpasses, and knowing TxDOT probably replace asphalt with concrete too

[Bobby5280]

I remember years ago hearing about the stretch of US 64-US 87 west of Clayton being prone to snow closures during the winter.  It was always one of the first roads to close when a snow storm came through.  IDK if that will ever be a determining factor in where I-27 goes outside TX.  IMO, combining I-25 with traffic from I-27 at Raton Pass might not be the best thing in the wintertime.

There is a couple of locations along US-64/87 between Clayton and Raton where they have snow drift fences built. The threat of road closures due to snow storms is real. But this is one key reason why I believe it is important to, at the very least, make US-287 a 4-lane divided highway from Stratford, TX up to Limon, CO.

Blizzards can certainly close roads in Eastern Colorado too. But it's not all that often a winter storm is big enough to shut down both Raton Pass and US-287 in Eastern Colorado at the same time. Usually if one road is closed the other one might still be open and be a functional alternative. Making one or both roads Interstate quality would be a huge bonus. But both can at least be divided highways for considerably less money.

If New Mexico won't fund improvements to their portion of US 87, maybe the northern terminus of Interstate 27 should remain at Interstate 40 in Amarillo. In lieu of extending Interstate 27 northward, US 287 should be widened to four lanes north of Stratford northward, with bypasses being built around the towns along the 87 and 287 corridors.

That may end up being what happens. It would be wierd to extend the I-27 designation up to towns like Dumas, Stratford or Texline only for the designation to end there. The I-27 designation should only go North from Amarillo if it can end at another Interstate, be it I-25 in Raton or I-70 in Limon.

Meanwhile TX DOT will (hopefully) do some improvements to the US-87 and US-287 corridors in the TX Panhandle to make them more friendly to Interstate upgrades. Dumas needs a half loop around the West side of town. Stratford would need one too. In Oklahoma the bypass around Boise City could be upgraded to Interstate quality pretty easily. But ODOT would only double-barrel the highway and convert at-grade intersections to freeway exits if they knew there was a concrete plan on part of both TX and CO to finish I-27 to Limon.

You are aware that it is already a 4 lane highway from the Texas border to the Raton city limits? Just not an interstate grade.

US-64/87 from Texline is Raton is not a very good 4-lane divided highway. I've driven that stretch of road a bunch of times. The main lanes much of the way would have to be completely re-built to comply with Interstate standards.

There isn't a great deal of at-grade intersections and driveways along US-64/87. But there is enough of them that it will require some difficult choices on how to maintain access to those roads. Most of them do not justify the expense of a freeway exit. They'll need to be cut off by other kinds of access roads. Or they can be served by frontage roads the length of a typical rest area.

[DJStephens]

[quote author=edwaleni link=topic=26868.msg2887077#msg2887077 date=170103084
You are aware that it is already a 4 lane highway from the Texas border to the Raton city limits? Just not an interstate grade.
[/quote]
The cheapie four lane is not that old.  20-22 years perhaps.  It could have been done "better" back then.   Pete Rahn.  Known as a "throwaway improvement".  Way too many of them in this state, and there have been needless casualities and fatalities because of them.   

[BJ59]

I'm not mad about 27E and 27W since they at least reconnect with each other, even if 27E is obviously the better thru route. But 27N? Come on. They could have gone with I-31 or I-23 for that stretch if they weren't happy with the three-digit designation.

How is I-27N supposed to help traffic? Is there an I-27S somewhere? I'm interested to know the reasoning behind naming it that instead of a three-digit

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 27N should be discarded. I don't think an Interstate along the US 287 corridor is necessary. An expansion to four lanes is likely all that will be needed.

[Bobby5280]

The cheapie four lane is not that old.  20-22 years perhaps.

It's not even that old. NM DOT was still working on four laning US-64/87 between Clayton and Raton in 2012. I didn't see the four laning project finished until 2013.

How is I-27N supposed to help traffic? Is there an I-27S somewhere?

I think the "I-27N" thing will just confuse motorists. This would be the first time a suffix letter on an Interstate route would copy or conflict with a cardinal direction on the route. I-35 is a North-South route, so its suffixes are "E" and "W." The same goes for I-69 (it does have that extra "C" thing, but that isn't going to clash with North-South cardinal directions). I-80N and I-70S were East-West routes.

The notion of people driving Southbound on I-27N is just kooky. The distance between Dumas, TX and Limon, CO is long enough that a "I-31" route would be plausible if I-27 actually got built out to Raton.

[sprjus4]

Fictional concept: An I-31 or I-33 along the US-287 corridor entirely from Fort Worth, TX to Limon, CO.

I-27 would overlap from Amarillo to Dumas, then split off to the west heading toward Raton, NM.

[bwana39]

Fictional concept: An I-31 or I-33 along the US-287 corridor entirely from Fort Worth, TX to Limon, CO.

I-27 would overlap from Amarillo to Dumas, then split off to the west heading toward Raton, NM.

Decades ago, there was discussion of I-45 following SH-114 to US-287 and US-287 to at least Amarillo. I feel really comfortable if I-45 is extended now, it almost surely would be along US-75.

[Bobby5280]

Fictional concept: An I-31 or I-33 along the US-287 corridor entirely from Fort Worth, TX to Limon, CO.

Even though US-287 is technically a North-South highway the route between Fort Worth and Amarillo is much more of an East-West route. A long time ago the Roads and Bridges publication suggested "I-32" as a route from Fort Worth to Raton via Amarillo.

With the way the North Texas region is growing around the DFW metroplex and some larger population migration trends I can see the potential of I-32 and I-34 getting used up there. That is if the corridors don't get impossibly covered up with development. US-287 from Fort Worth to Amarillo is do-able (although building thru Decatur will be a serious hurdle). I think US-82 from Wichita Falls to Texarkana (technically Henrietta to New Boston) needs a lot of improvements. The Gainseville to Sherman segment is getting urgent. More encroachment is happening along US-82. It could turn into another mess similar to US-380 between Denton and McKinney.

I think chances of extending I-27 to Limon are much better than Raton. Maybe if the Feds got back into a 90/10 funding arrangement it might be possible to get NM lawmakers on board. But even that might not be a guarantee.

Decades ago, there was discussion of I-45 following SH-114 to US-287 and US-287 to at least Amarillo. I feel really comfortable if I-45 is extended now, it almost surely would be along US-75.

I'd certainly prefer I-45 extended along US-75 and US-69 in Oklahoma.

[monty]

Just announced I 27 designations passed by House and Senate: https://www.everythinglubbock.com/news/local-news/ports-to-plains-corridor-set-for-interstate-status-with-passage-of-i-27-numbering-act/amp/

[monty]

Laredo to Sterling City as I-27
Sterling City through Midland to Lamesa as I-27W
Sterling City to Lamesa as I-27E
Lamesa northbound through Lubbock to Amarillo passing through Dumas to Raton, New Mexico as I-27
The corridor north of Dumas as I-27N

[Strider]

Laredo to Sterling City as I-27
Sterling City through Midland to Lamesa as I-27W
Sterling City to Lamesa as I-27E
Lamesa northbound through Lubbock to Amarillo passing through Dumas to Raton, New Mexico as I-27
The corridor north of Dumas as I-27N

I don't understand why they don't turn I-27W, I-27E, and I-27N into 3dis of I-27.... The same thing goes for I-69E and I-69W.

[The Ghostbuster]

They really should have used the 27 and 227 designations for the 27E and 27W segments, and the 327 designation for 27N (as was originally proposed).