Toll collectors - nostalgia for lost human touch

[jeffandnicole]

Pay at the pump allows me to get in and get out at the gas station.  ATMs are fine as I can take out money when I want without worrying about banker's hours.  I'd rather go through a checkout line at the grocery store though as the automated ones are a pain in the ass to use with coupons.  I do love my transponder since I don't have to slow down or stop for a toll anymore.

I'm always amazed at the people that will use an ATM in a store and get charged the surcharges (assuming it's not their bank's ATM), then pay with that cash at the checkout line.  They could've used their ATM card at checkout then gotten extra cash back, without the fees.

The same reason why some people still write checks at the register when the Debit Card will do the same exact thing minus the cost of the checks being printed out and faster check out as they do not have to present their ID.

A check is not exactly the same thing as a debit card.  A check:  has stronger legal protections about what can be done with the account number and how the debt can be collected if it doesn't go through; takes money out a day or two later, so money can be moved from one account to another to cover it; lets you write on the check what it's for; shows who deposited it on the back.  On some accounts, checks clearing is free but there's a service charge associated with every debit transaction.

Also: with a check, you're writing the amount.  With a debit card, you hope there isn't some technical problem causing you to be over-charged (which does happen).  While with a credit card you can dispute that, with a debit card you can't, so the money is gone forever with no recourse.

But after you wrote that check, it then needs to be processed.  A bank operator will key in, or a machine will read and process, the amount written, and that's where errors can occur.  Additionally, the person writing the check can accidently write a numeric amount that differ from the written amount.

The other problem with a check - it's the absolute, most unsecure document available anywhere.  Your banking account number, your banking ABA number, and for most people your name and address are on the check!  And you are handing that over to someone who you don't know, who will need to hand it to someone else later, and so on...

[agentsteel53]

I suppose they can't spend more than they have, which doesn't ruin their monthly limits, and essentially, there's no bill to pay later.

I record the expense as having been spent the moment I charge the card.  then, every week or so, I review my charges and pay off the entire balance.  it's the best of both worlds... can't spend more than I have, and I get to see if any unusual charges pop up.

that said, there is a bill to pay, but it's accounting.  it's like putting the money from one ledger to another - I never feel the psychological hit of "wow, I just spent $800" because that is the balance.  it's more like "this $800 was already gone; I'm just dotting the t's and crossing the i's."

On the other hand, some people don't want nor can have credit cards due to their credit score. I prefer my credit card; I get an idea at the end of the month what I'm spending money on, and I very rarely carry much cash. Hell, I don't even know my PIN any more on my ATM card, I probably last used it 8-9 years ago.

...which means I see a teller at the bank.

my bank (Wells Fargo) makes me swipe my card and type in my PIN every time I go to a teller.

for large check deposits and/or cash withdrawals I too use one.  Wells Fargo just introduced mobile phone deposit (whoo hoo!) but with silly low limits... $1000 per day, $3000 per 30 days.  I asked the teller for a line increase - even offering to pay about $5/mo for the convenience - and they said that it's not a matter of my transaction activity; it's a blanket limit across all customers while they experiment with mobile deposit. 

so that means every so often I'm still going to the teller.

Although I visit the c-stores inside gas stations frequently for a snack or drink, I despise the 1-2 times of year I have to pre-pay for some reason (for example, a credit card machine that doesn't work). I vaguely know my own car's tank, but some rental car that must be filled? Good luck!

I don't at all appreciate the "prepay dance" - where they ask me to guess how much is going to go in.  I always tell the clerk "go ahead and authorize a hold of $100", indicating that I know what is going on inside the system.  the one time I prepaid with cash in the last ~10 years (the gas station credit card readers were all down), I put down a $100 bill and asked them to open up pump number 3 and informed them I'd probably be only putting in about 45 bucks.  ended up $49, close enough - but I still wasn't about to play blackjack with them.  they're a sentient being; they can give me change when I am done.

[jeffandnicole]

I am astonished that people prefer debit cards to credit cards.

apart from the opportunity to get cash back, I see no advantages, and the inability to review and dispute purchases within the next month or so seems to be a critical weakness. 

why do people like them so much?

But your typical bank card works as both credit and debit, and in many or most instances, I'd agree that credit is preferable.

For most people, it's meaningless if you process it as a credit or debit card. The transaction will process in about the same amount of time either way. On occasion, the bank will have a promotional offer that is only valid if you select credit or debit - whatever is applicable to the promotion. 

However, it matters more for the business.  There are different rates the business is charged depending on how it's processed.  As a transaction using a PIN # is considered more secure, it costs the business less to process a debit transaction as opposed to a credit transaction.

[vdeane]

The other problem with a check - it's the absolute, most unsecure document available anywhere.  Your banking account number, your banking ABA number, and for most people your name and address are on the check!  And you are handing that over to someone who you don't know, who will need to hand it to someone else later, and so on...

You're also giving that information to the store when you swipe the card.  The data on that magnetic strip is NOT encrypted.  There's nothing to stop someone from hooking it up to a computer without your knowledge and recording everyone's card number.

[formulanone]

my bank (Wells Fargo) makes me swipe my card and type in my PIN every time I go to a teller.

My bank (Bank of America) did the same about a year or two ago. Their reason: "Security."

They seemed astonished that I didn't carry my ATM card with me; I told them I kept it in my safe.

Why would you do that?

"Security."

There was a two-second moment of dead silence at the bank. They haven't asked me since.

[Brandon]

my bank (Wells Fargo) makes me swipe my card and type in my PIN every time I go to a teller.

My bank (Bank of America) did the same about a year or two ago. Their reason: "Security."

They seemed astonished that I didn't carry my ATM card with me; I told them I kept it in my safe.

Why would you do that?

"Security."

There was a two-second moment of dead silence at the bank. They haven't asked me since.

Bizarre.  My bank, a regional bank in the area, doesn't do anything of the sort.  In fact, they belong to a group for ATMs called "Allpoint".  If you go to one of those, anywhere in the US, there are no fees for using the ATM.

[djsinco]

Toll collector thread = hijacked?

[Alps]

Toll collector thread = hijacked?

Nostalgia for lost human touch thread = active.

[empirestate]

my bank (Wells Fargo) makes me swipe my card and type in my PIN every time I go to a teller.

My bank, also Wells Fargo, also makes me swipe mine, but it's always because I don't have my account number memorized. I didn't realize they had a policy beyond that reason.

My bank also charges me $5.00 every month for not having enough money. I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that. "Hey, you owe me $5!" "I don't have $5." "In that case, you owe me $10!" "OK buddy, good luck collecting that!"

By the way, what is the correct tense of "to understand" I should have used in the sentence above?

[djsinco]

So, speaking of toll collectors and the "human touch," has anyone else seen toll takers sporting latex gloves anywhere other than the GW Bridge?

[jeffandnicole]

NJ Turnpike. We were supposed to start wearing them after the Anthrax scares after 9/11. For many of us, that barely lasted a weekend. I also saw motorists doing the same thing. They would put the gloves on, handle the money, then take them off. In the meantime, they're touching their steering wheel, wallet, etc. If anything was actually on the money, they would have transferred the agent with the gloves on, then touched it with their bare hands later. Gloves are a feel-good preventive measure that accomplishes nothing.

[Duke87]

My bank also charges me $5.00 every month for not having enough money. I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that. "Hey, you owe me $5!" "I don't have $5." "In that case, you owe me $10!" "OK buddy, good luck collecting that!"

There is an administrative cost to the bank for maintaining an account. Normally, this cost is covered by the gains from investments the bank makes with the money you deposit (and you see a smidge of those gains as interest). But, if the amount of money you keep in the account is too small, the bank can't do much with it investment-wise and it costs them more to keep the account active than they can make off the money in it. So, when you're in this situation, they charge you for the privilege of keeping the account open so they don't lose money on it.

Of course, banks may start charging fees for reasons other than low balance. I had a bank account when I was in college that after three years I randomly started getting slapped with a $20 a month fee despite being told when I opened the account that there was no minimum balance and there would be no fees. I closed the account and opened a new one elsewhere. Fee problem went away. (and they never were able to explain to me why the fee was being charged - it wasn't a low balance issue!)

I'd recommend talking to your bank about why exactly the fee is being charged and what you can do to make it go away.  If you can't, then close the account and get a new bank!

[US81]

NJ Turnpike. We were supposed to start wearing them after the Anthrax scares after 9/11. For many of us, that barely lasted a weekend. I also saw motorists doing the same thing. They would put the gloves on, handle the money, then take them off. In the meantime, they're touching their steering wheel, wallet, etc. If anything was actually on the money, they would have transferred the agent with the gloves on, then touched it with their bare hands later. Gloves are a feel-good preventive measure that accomplishes nothing.

If I may ask: Were the toll collectors supposed to use a new set of gloves with each customer?

[agentsteel53]

My bank, also Wells Fargo, also makes me swipe mine, but it's always because I don't have my account number memorized. I didn't realize they had a policy beyond that reason.

I do have mine memorized.  I wonder if I could withdraw with just an ID and this information.  (they always ask me for ID to make a cash withdrawal; even if I had just entered my PIN correctly.)

[kkt]

I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that.

By the way, what is the correct tense of "to understand" I should have used in the sentence above?

To be correct, it needs to be rephrased.  Try "I never have understood, and never will understand, the logic behind that."  Or for a shorter sentence that's a little farther in meaning, "The logic behind that is incomprehensible."

[djsinco]

My bank also charges me $5.00 every month for not having enough money. I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that. "Hey, you owe me $5!" "I don't have $5." "In that case, you owe me $10!" "OK buddy, good luck collecting that!"

There is an administrative cost to the bank for maintaining an account. Normally, this cost is covered by the gains from investments the bank makes with the money you deposit (and you see a smidge of those gains as interest). But, if the amount of money you keep in the account is too small, the bank can't do much with it investment-wise and it costs them more to keep the account active than they can make off the money in it. So, when you're in this situation, they charge you for the privilege of keeping the account open so they don't lose money on it.

Of course, banks may start charging fees for reasons other than low balance. I had a bank account when I was in college that after three years I randomly started getting slapped with a $20 a month fee despite being told when I opened the account that there was no minimum balance and there would be no fees. I closed the account and opened a new one elsewhere. Fee problem went away. (and they never were able to explain to me why the fee was being charged - it wasn't a low balance issue!)

I'd recommend talking to your bank about why exactly the fee is being charged and what you can do to make it go away.  If you can't, then close the account and get an account at a new bank credit union!

FTFY!

[vdeane]

My bank also charges me $5.00 every month for not having enough money. I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that. "Hey, you owe me $5!" "I don't have $5." "In that case, you owe me $10!" "OK buddy, good luck collecting that!"

There is an administrative cost to the bank for maintaining an account. Normally, this cost is covered by the gains from investments the bank makes with the money you deposit (and you see a smidge of those gains as interest). But, if the amount of money you keep in the account is too small, the bank can't do much with it investment-wise and it costs them more to keep the account active than they can make off the money in it. So, when you're in this situation, they charge you for the privilege of keeping the account open so they don't lose money on it.

Of course, banks may start charging fees for reasons other than low balance. I had a bank account when I was in college that after three years I randomly started getting slapped with a $20 a month fee despite being told when I opened the account that there was no minimum balance and there would be no fees. I closed the account and opened a new one elsewhere. Fee problem went away. (and they never were able to explain to me why the fee was being charged - it wasn't a low balance issue!)

I'd recommend talking to your bank about why exactly the fee is being charged and what you can do to make it go away.  If you can't, then close the account and get a new bank!

And also, any excuse to add a fee!  I've read that some banks will even adjust the minimum balance for accounts that consistently stay above it but come close to it.

[empirestate]

My bank also charges me $5.00 every month for not having enough money. I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that. "Hey, you owe me $5!" "I don't have $5." "In that case, you owe me $10!" "OK buddy, good luck collecting that!"

There is an administrative cost to the bank for maintaining an account. Normally, this cost is covered by the gains from investments the bank makes with the money you deposit (and you see a smidge of those gains as interest). But, if the amount of money you keep in the account is too small, the bank can't do much with it investment-wise and it costs them more to keep the account active than they can make off the money in it. So, when you're in this situation, they charge you for the privilege of keeping the account open so they don't lose money on it.

It's not that I don't understand the bank's reasoning for charging fees, like them or not. It's simply that when I run through it from a logical standpoint, it doesn't hold up. The logical flaw is more evident with respect to overdraft fees, but minimum-balance charges present a similar paradox.

I'd recommend talking to your bank about why exactly the fee is being charged and what you can do to make it go away.  If you can't, then close the account and get a new bank!

I already know the answers to that; it's just that I'm not in a position to take advantage of those options. My earning potential isn't currently at a level to meet the minimum balance threshold for waiving fees, and while direct deposit is another way to avoid them, the nature of my work means I'm typically not payrolled by any single employer with enough regularity to do that.

Yeah, I could get another bank, but while at this point the fees are enough of an irritatant to warrant mentioning here in the context of this (off) topic, they aren't yet at the point where I'm greatly compelled to start bank-shopping. I used to have Wells Fargo as my West Coast bank and Wachovia as my East Coast bank; now that they're combined I only need the one (though I'm less proud to be a WF customer than I was at first). Their now-nationwide reach is an important consideration for me in my travels; for example, it was always handy to hop off a cruise ship in Alaska–they pay in cash, large wads of it–and drop my money straight into my own bank. Now they also have locations in my current home city of New York, and I still get paid frequently in cash. I'm happy enough with them that the fees are a disappointment, a let-down really, but not a deal breaker.

new bank credit union!

FTFY!

Actually, I do belong to a credit union, but unfortunately I no longer live where it's located. I still keep it around for savings purposes and the credit card they offer, services that don't require cash liquidity. Before long I expect I'll get an account at the credit union here in town for which I'm eligible (Actors').

My bank, also Wells Fargo, also makes me swipe mine, but it's always because I don't have my account number memorized. I didn't realize they had a policy beyond that reason.

I do have mine memorized.  I wonder if I could withdraw with just an ID and this information.  (they always ask me for ID to make a cash withdrawal; even if I had just entered my PIN correctly.)

I've typically had my numbers memorized in the past, but frankly I make so few teller transactions anymore that I seldom even use the account number.

I never have, and never will, understood the logic behind that.

By the way, what is the correct tense of "to understand" I should have used in the sentence above?

To be correct, it needs to be rephrased.  Try "I never have understood, and never will understand, the logic behind that."

Yeah, I started to type that, but it became so unwieldy that I opted instead for the awkward construct followed by the disclaimer. I'm not unwilling to break rules sometimes, provided I make it clear that I do know what they are and am intentionally doing so.  Still, I do feel as though there is, or ought to is, a guideline somewhere that prescribes tense-matching for dependent clause situations like this one. Or perhaps there ain't.

[Duke87]

new bank credit union!

FTFY!

Actually, I do belong to a credit union, but unfortunately I no longer live where it's located.

That is precisely the problem I have with credit unions. While I understand the populist appeal of flipping off the big time banking industry, the reality is that belonging to a bank that has ATMs all over the country, and has a branch a block away from my office where I can deposit checks and obtain foreign currency any time during the day is too convenient to say no to.

[US81]

new bank credit union!

FTFY!

Actually, I do belong to a credit union, but unfortunately I no longer live where it's located.

That is precisely the problem I have with credit unions. While I understand the populist appeal of flipping off the big time banking industry, the reality is that belonging to a bank that has ATMs all over the country, and has a branch a block away from my office where I can deposit checks and obtain foreign currency any time during the day is too convenient to say no to.

My credit union is part of a credit union network wherein members may use any member institution's ATM and not incur a fee.

[djsinco]

Most credit unions are in an alliance and allow any member to use ATM for free, and many also allow deposits to be made if desired.

[kphoger]

I should mention that I usually fill up with gas at at the grocery store.  So all prepaying makes me do is walk about 15 feet over to the window and back.

[txstateends]

my bank (Wells Fargo) makes me swipe my card and type in my PIN every time I go to a teller.

My bank (Bank of America) did the same about a year or two ago. Their reason: "Security."

They seemed astonished that I didn't carry my ATM card with me; I told them I kept it in my safe.

Why would you do that?

"Security."

There was a two-second moment of dead silence at the bank. They haven't asked me since.

My bank, a regional bank in the area, doesn't do anything of the sort.  In fact, they belong to a group for ATMs called "Allpoint".  If you go to one of those, anywhere in the US, there are no fees for using the ATM.

Allpoint is one of the 2 networks my credit union uses.  Many DFW-area ATMs have Allpoint access--I haven't paid an ATM fee in quite a while.

[txstateends]

NJ Turnpike. We were supposed to start wearing them after the Anthrax scares after 9/11. For many of us, that barely lasted a weekend. I also saw motorists doing the same thing. They would put the gloves on, handle the money, then take them off. In the meantime, they're touching their steering wheel, wallet, etc. If anything was actually on the money, they would have transferred the agent with the gloves on, then touched it with their bare hands later. Gloves are a feel-good preventive measure that accomplishes nothing.

If I may ask: Were the toll collectors supposed to use a new set of gloves with each customer?

Once in a while, I'd see an NTTA (DFW-area tollroads) toll collector (before all-electronic tolling came along) use latex gloves.  I figured they had some kind of Howie Mandel/OCD thing about handling other people's money or something.

[formulanone]

Ohio's Turnpike seemed to be glove-free from my most recent visits. Didn't think it was worth a $10 handling fee to use the transponder for 75 cents, so I coughed up some change. Interestingly, a "closed" transponder didn't generate a ticket from the automatic toll ticket dispenser, so a push button signaled an attendant the adjacent booth to hand me a ticket manually.