Dead Malls

[steviep24]

The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.

https://youtu.be/QmNyVFibClQ

[1995hoo]

I didn't play the video, but the initial image it shows there reminds me of whatever that movie was where the world's weather went crazy and the characters were walking across snow on top of a mall and fell through the glass roof.

[AlexandriaVA]

That most recent mall (Rochester) sure looks a lot like Landmark Mall in Alexandria's West End - another dead mall.

[tolbs17]

Remeber Carolina East Mall in Greenville, NC and Tarrytown Mall in Rocky Mount? Both are closed and demolished.

Tarrytown was flooded in 1999 and got demolished in 2005 or 2006 and it got turned into a Sam's club.

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.

[1995hoo]

....

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.

"They" may not have had much choice–it's fairly common for Sears to own their own building even in shopping malls. (My brother used to work for them, hence how I learned about that.)

[tolbs17]

....

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.

"They" may not have had much choice–it's fairly common for Sears to own their own building even in shopping malls. (My brother used to work for them, hence how I learned about that.)

Yeah. The malls are going down and getting old. I'm not sure what new malls they are planning to build in the future.

I guess Sears is the only building that''s holding up look at Cary Towne Center too

[Bruce]

Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers, is being closed for redevelopment. New mixed-use complex with an NHL practice rink only a few steps from light rail.

[1995hoo]

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85. Its future is highly uncertain with both Macy's and Sears gone. It wasn't all that great in the mid-1990s during my time in the area and it's gone steadily downhill since except for a brief revival when South Square closed (this because the other mall that replaced South Square is a lot further away).

[empirestate]

The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.

Oh, no, the tough stuff is well to the west, and generally south of Norton. At the time the mall was operating, a lot of the trouble was happening in the radiating avenues just north of the Inner Loop (North Ave., N. Clinton, Joseph, etc.) It's probably fanned out since then, and Irondequoit itself is certainly plagued by a certain amount of inner ring suburb crime. But the real complaint at the time was more that the city itself was just south of the mall, and worse, connected to it by buses.

[PHLBOS]

Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.

Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center.  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.   

[LM117]

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85. Its future is highly uncertain with both Macy's and Sears gone. It wasn't all that great in the mid-1990s during my time in the area and it's gone steadily downhill since except for a brief revival when South Square closed (this because the other mall that replaced South Square is a lot further away).

Yeah, that mall is on it's last legs and is under new ownership.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article223087340.html

Meanwhile, Duke Health is turning Macy's spot into a clinic.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/01/duke-acquires-macys-spot-at-northgate-mall-for-hospitals-largest-off-campus-clinic

[Rothman]

Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.

Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center.  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.

There's also one in Colonie, NY.

[jp the roadgeek]

Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.

Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center.  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.

There's also one in Colonie, NY.

That's actually Northway Mall (now Northway Shopping Center).  I think you're trying to combine it with Crossgates Mall a couple miles down the Northway. 

[Rothman]

Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers

When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.

Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center.  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.

There's also one in Colonie, NY.

That's actually Northway Mall (now Northway Shopping Center).  I think you're trying to combine it with Crossgates Mall a couple miles down the Northway.

I think my brain is fried on vacation.  Yeah, I was thinking about the Northway Mall.

[webny99]

I didn't play the video, but the initial image it shows there reminds me of whatever that movie was where the world's weather went crazy and the characters were walking across snow on top of a mall and fell through the glass roof.

Well, Rochester has crazy weather and plenty of snow, so you're on the right track anyways. 

The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.

Oh, no, the tough stuff is well to the west, and generally south of Norton. At the time the mall was operating, a lot of the trouble was happening in the radiating avenues just north of the Inner Loop (North Ave., N. Clinton, Joseph, etc.) It's probably fanned out since then, and Irondequoit itself is certainly plagued by a certain amount of inner ring suburb crime. But the real complaint at the time was more that the city itself was just south of the mall, and worse, connected to it by buses.

Yup, that's kind of what I was thinking. The worst areas of town aren't that close to the mall, but the city as a whole is just close enough that it was the de-facto "city mall", and faced all the negative stereotypes -- not necessarily rightly so -- associated with drawing customers from the inner city.

There's also the fact that the Rochester just doesn't have the population to sustain four malls, so when Eastview opened in the 70's, something had to give. Greece and Henrietta were not only better-established as major shopping destinations, they also fit the more typical contours looked for by upscale suburbanites. Between (a) Eastview, which let's be honest is far and away the best mall, (b) the emergence of Webster as a secondary shopping destination in the 90's, and (c) migration to the outer suburbs and decline of inner suburbs in general, it's no wonder the Irondequoit mall became totally obsolete.

[empirestate]

There's also the fact that the Rochester just doesn't have the population to sustain four malls, so when Eastview opened in the 70's, something had to give. Greece and Henrietta were not only better-established as major shopping destinations, they also fit the more typical contours looked for by upscale suburbanites. Between (a) Eastview, which let's be honest is far and away the best mall, (b) the emergence of Webster as a secondary shopping destination in the 90's, and (c) migration to the outer suburbs and decline of inner suburbs in general, it's no wonder the Irondequoit mall became totally obsolete.

More broadly, and not specific to the Rochester area, the enclosed shopping mall retail model as a whole has seen a decline in recent years. Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.

[webny99]

Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at in saying that Greece and Henrietta were better-established as shopping destinations. Eastview less so, but unlike Irondequoit, Victor was sparsely populated back then and there was plenty of room for expansion for both new stores and new neighborhoods to add to the customer base.

Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.

Very good point! 
That's probably no small part of why Webster has increased in prominence as a shopping destination in recent years. Not only is suburbia moving eastward, it's also a lot more convenient for rural folks to come to Webster as it's much more central to outlying populations. Relatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.

[Brandon]

Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at in saying that Greece and Henrietta were better-established as shopping destinations. Eastview less so, but unlike Irondequoit, Victor was sparsely populated back then and there was plenty of room for expansion for both new stores and new neighborhoods to add to the customer base.

Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.

Very good point! 
That's probably no small part of why Webster has increased in prominence as a shopping destination in recent years. Not only is suburbia moving eastward, it's also a lot more convenient for rural folks to come to Webster as it's much more central to outlying populations. Relatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.

Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).

[dvferyance]

That was the case in suburban east Cleveland way too many malls. You had Great Lakes, Euclid Square, Richmond Town Square, Beachwood and Randall Park all with a few miles of one another. Great Lakes and Beachwood ended up being the survivors. Same thing in suburban KC you had Oak Park and Metcalf South no more than 4 miles of one another. Oak Park survived Metcalf South did not. Valley View Mall in suburban Dallas just closed again very close to the Dallas Galleria.

[ftballfan]

Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).

Grand Rapids had Eastbrook Mall right across M-37 from the successful Woodland Mall. Eastbrook has been turned into a power center with more success. North Kent Mall failed due to poor anchor choices (Montgomery Ward and Kmart, although the Kmart hung on until 2016, well after the rest of the mall had been demolished) and poor location (on Plainfield Ave, which has a somewhat sketchy reputation). Oddly, Woodland Mall was the only large mall in the Grand Rapids metro area until RiverTown Crossings opened across Kent County in 1999.

In Traverse City, Cherryland Mall was killed when the much larger and better located Grand Traverse Mall opened in 1992. Cherryland also had relatively poor anchor choices (Kmart, Sears, Younkers, however, the three anchors outlived the rest of the mall). On a side note, Grand Traverse Mall is one of very few malls I know of that still have all of their original anchors (although one of them has changed names twice due to mergers)

[Flint1979]

Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).

Grand Rapids had Eastbrook Mall right across M-37 from the successful Woodland Mall. Eastbrook has been turned into a power center with more success. North Kent Mall failed due to poor anchor choices (Montgomery Ward and Kmart, although the Kmart hung on until 2016, well after the rest of the mall had been demolished) and poor location (on Plainfield Ave, which has a somewhat sketchy reputation). Oddly, Woodland Mall was the only large mall in the Grand Rapids metro area until RiverTown Crossings opened across Kent County in 1999.

In Traverse City, Cherryland Mall was killed when the much larger and better located Grand Traverse Mall opened in 1992. Cherryland also had relatively poor anchor choices (Kmart, Sears, Younkers, however, the three anchors outlived the rest of the mall). On a side note, Grand Traverse Mall is one of very few malls I know of that still have all of their original anchors (although one of them has changed names twice due to mergers)

Fashion Square in Saginaw still has their original anchors at least until October. JCP and Sears are original. Hudson's was added a few years later, then it of course went through the name changes that Hudson's has. Sears is a goner come October though.

[empirestate]

Relatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.

Eastview benefited greatly from the increased popularity of the southeastern suburbs and their perceived higher quality of life, together with the increased acceptability of a commute that long (and/or the general migration of employment centers in that direction).

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

I'd actually give that as an example of why malls are, indeed, considered an outdate concept by many. The open-air, "town square" style of retail center became popular in the early 2000s at the same time that the indoor mall was declining in vogue. I'm not sure there's quite the push for those that there used to be, but it's notable that 1) most of the high-end, luxury retail complexes I can think of are this type (the fake, if not actually the real, kind of town square); and 2) developments of this kind have actually been added to some existing enclosed malls as part of renovation/redevelopment.

[inkyatari]

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.

[Brandon]

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.

Not too surprised (I wrote the original in 2011) with the loss of Sears and both Carson's stores.  It's got Penney's and the theater, and that's pretty much it.  Might be best to demo all between Penney's and the theater, and build a small lifestyle strip between the two.

[inkyatari]

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.

Not too surprised (I wrote the original in 2011) with the loss of Sears and both Carson's stores.  It's got Penney's and the theater, and that's pretty much it.  Might be best to demo all between Penney's and the theater, and build a small lifestyle strip between the two.

I lived in the area from 90 until about 2007-ish. THe mall was never really going to take off, given the demographics of the area.

I need to get back to visit to see the unintentionally hilarious statue of a boy helping a girl I think make a phone call from a pay phone.