Washington

[jakeroot]

Archival photo from September 1968 of the first Boeing 747 being rolled out of the half-complete Everett factory. You can see the future trench for SR 526 and the current bridge between the flightline and factory, as well as the former alignment of Casino Road (which carried SR 526 for another two years).

Must have been pretty incredible, for the right or wrong reasons, how many massive capital projects were occurring around those years. Huge new roads, massive new factories, etc.

Old Nalley Valley Viaduct, SR 16 in Tacoma, now demolished.  For some reason, the supports came down to single points with diagonal supports instead of vertical supports.  The Wiki page looked like it had a promising link to the WSDOT page explaining this construction, but it was dead.

The Wayback Machine is generally pretty good at picking up WSDOT pages: http://web.archive.org/web/20090925023059/http://wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/PierceCountyHOV/SR16_WBNalleyValley/History.htm

I suppose the more annoying thing is that, despite Bruce finding a link via the Wayback Machine, there's still no explanation as to why the tetrapod supports were used!

If I had to make an educated guess, Tacoma was really in a bad way around this time period. It could be that the supports were designed to allow as much light beneath the structure as physically possible, to deter the houseless from sleeping beneath them. Hell, that's a good idea even now (more natural than using fences or something else), for any number of reasons, but back then, I doubt they were concerned solely about making areas more walkable. It seemed to be more about, "how do we stop X from using Y".

[ErmineNotyours]

I suppose the more annoying thing is that, despite Bruce finding a link via the Wayback Machine, there's still no explanation as to why the tetrapod supports were used!

If I had to make an educated guess, Tacoma was really in a bad way around this time period. It could be that the supports were designed to allow as much light beneath the structure as physically possible, to deter the houseless from sleeping beneath them. Hell, that's a good idea even now (more natural than using fences or something else), for any number of reasons, but back then, I doubt they were concerned solely about making areas more walkable. It seemed to be more about, "how do we stop X from using Y".

After a trip to North Vancouver on Saturday, I had another theory, until I heard that the 1969 Nalley Valley Viaduct was made by a contractor from Oregon.  I couldn't help noticing the similarities with the extant underpasses from the project at Cedar Street for instance, and compare them with bridges in Horseshoe Bay.  Maybe someone picked up a similar design idea between those two projects.

[jakeroot]

WSDOT is holding an online open house to discuss transportation improvements in the Tacoma Mall Subarea.

The open house has several images of proposed improvements around the mall, including some potential roundabouts, new ramps, etc.

In the comments, I suggested building a new (wide) pedestrian bridge south of 38th, but north of 48th. There is some consideration of modifying 38th to permit pedestrian access once again (presumably removed when the cloverleaf was modified into a Parclo B4 in 2001, and moved to new ped bridge due north), but I don't think this is a good idea, given how the interchange is currently configured. If they want to improve traffic flow, and improve pedestrian access, they need to continue segregating the two transportation types, as they already have, just building more pedestrian bridges as necessary. I'm all for shared streets, but freeway interchanges need special consideration.

[Bruce]

Mercer Street is currently shut down because of a crane collapse (working on the Google campus next door).

https://twitter.com/evanbush/status/1122270138047143936

Four dead, according to The Seattle Times.

[jakeroot]

Remarked on the new Google "Cloud" logo (on the related building) to a couple Lyft passengers yesterday, having not seen it until yesterday. Later learned that it was only installed that morning, apparently. I guess only a few people got to see the crane and that logo together. Shouldn't have been that way.

Not related to the crane accident. Just an odd observation, at an otherwise somber moment.

[Bruce]

A semi-truck caught fire on SB I-5 in Marysville, creating a 10-mile backup (fueled by last-minute Tulip Festival traffic). Was a fun night to be driving around.

https://twitter.com/wspd7pio/status/1122678367529029632

https://twitter.com/SounderBruce/status/1122704767594008576

[jakeroot]

^^
I-5 from Smokey Point to Everett is, without any doubt, my least favorite stretch of I-5 in the state. There's either a massive backup, or half a million cops doing radar. Ugh.

Honestly, it's like the northern version of I-5 through JBLM...very heavily trafficked, annoyingly-distant alternate route; at least I don't see as many cops.

[Bruce]

^^
I-5 from Smokey Point to Everett is, without any doubt, my least favorite stretch of I-5 in the state. There's either a massive backup, or half a million cops doing radar. Ugh.

Honestly, it's like the northern version of I-5 through JBLM...very heavily trafficked, annoyingly-distant alternate route; at least I don't see as many cops.

The reason: there's a State Patrol office right off exit 202, and the county sheriff is just northeast. And the patrols are very strict in part because the section had dozens of high-profile crashes (many fatal head-ons) before the concrete median barrier was erected. It's still a speedway because it's just too straight.

[kwellada]

^^
I-5 from Smokey Point to Everett is, without any doubt, my least favorite stretch of I-5 in the state. There's either a massive backup, or half a million cops doing radar. Ugh.

Honestly, it's like the northern version of I-5 through JBLM...very heavily trafficked, annoyingly-distant alternate route; at least I don't see as many cops.

There's actually no part of I-5 I enjoy driving anymore.  It's basically an aggravating drive from border to border anymore. 

[Hurricane Rex]

^^
I-5 from Smokey Point to Everett is, without any doubt, my least favorite stretch of I-5 in the state. There's either a massive backup, or half a million cops doing radar. Ugh.

Honestly, it's like the northern version of I-5 through JBLM...very heavily trafficked, annoyingly-distant alternate route; at least I don't see as many cops.

The reason: there's a State Patrol office right off exit 202, and the county sheriff is just northeast. And the patrols are very strict in part because the section had dozens of high-profile crashes (many fatal head-ons) before the concrete median barrier was erected. It's still a speedway because it's just too straight.

I would also argue that the 60 zone is a speed trap/artificially low and should be somewhere between 65-75 IMO. Every time I've driven it, its felt more rural than urban.

SM-J737T

[Bruce]

^^
I-5 from Smokey Point to Everett is, without any doubt, my least favorite stretch of I-5 in the state. There's either a massive backup, or half a million cops doing radar. Ugh.

Honestly, it's like the northern version of I-5 through JBLM...very heavily trafficked, annoyingly-distant alternate route; at least I don't see as many cops.

The reason: there's a State Patrol office right off exit 202, and the county sheriff is just northeast. And the patrols are very strict in part because the section had dozens of high-profile crashes (many fatal head-ons) before the concrete median barrier was erected. It's still a speedway because it's just too straight.

I would also argue that the 60 zone is a speed trap/artificially low and should be somewhere between 65-75 IMO. Every time I've driven it, its felt more rural than urban.

SM-J737T

No, no, no, no.

Before the speed limit was lowered in 2006 and the barrier was installed a few years later, there were near-monthly fatalities on that stretch of freeway. I would not like to go back to those days.

60 is perfect. The traffic through the area is at a high enough volume that hitting 70 is rare.

[jakeroot]

If I were to request any sort of change, it would be for variable speed signs to be installed along I-5 between Smokey Point and downtown Seattle, in both directions. Speeds above 60 would not be wise during rush hour periods, when you want to max out capacity. But with that barrier being installed, I-5 could handle 70 through there during weekends and off-hours. After all, since physics doesn't change, it's undoubtedly safer with that tall wall between directions.

It would be rather specious to assume that the 60 limit was the reason for the reduction in crashes, if it very nearly coincided with the installation of a barrier.

[Bruce]

Weekend traffic through Marysville is usually worse than it is during weekdays, since we're so far from the core of the metro area. Too many weekend vacationers and hikers!

[jakeroot]

Weekend traffic through Marysville is usually worse than it is during weekdays, since we're so far from the core of the metro area. Too many weekend vacationers and hikers!

Those bastards! How dare they participate in leisure activities!

Still, variable limits could be a thing, and they could be designed to respond to increased flow. Not sure what kind of traffic management tools were installed as part of the 116 St NE interchange (ramp meters?), but a smarter freeway could be a great asset through there. Maybe even speed cameras (with proper warnings, of course).

[Hurricane Rex]

1. I was 6 in 2006 and too young to remember any road info outside of the Portland area unless I did research.

2. The concrete barriers in other places have massively reduced fatalaties. I'll use an example in Wilsonville.

In 2004 when ODOT was doing their "study", Wilsonville asked if they can get their speed limit on I-5 lowered from 65 down to 55 due to fatal accidents. However ODOT decided to add a wire and metal barrier and kept the limit 65. Accidents went way down. Same thing on OR 34 recently and the speed limit increased. The only constant, adding the barriers.

Regarding the variable signs, I'm not opposed to them but I'd prefer it to be advisory speed limits instead of absolute.

SM-J737T

[jakeroot]

Regarding the variable signs, I'm not opposed to them but I'd prefer it to be advisory speed limits instead of absolute.

But that kind of misses the point. WSDOT's system doesn't show anything below the speed limit unless there's a hazard ahead, so you really ought to slow down in advance of whatever that may be; if not for your safety, for the safety of others.

If these were to be used in sort of fringe areas, on the edge of rural and urban (an important distinction in WA, where, in practice, only two speed limits are used on interstates), they could display 70 during "quieter" hours, which could be determined by computers.

Looking at the 2018 Q1 speed report from WSDOT's website, the 85th percentile speed at milepost 207.7 (just a bit north of Smokey Point) is 77mph, but the speed limit does drop to 60 right about milepost 206. Based on this, I think there's a reasonbly good reason to consider at least a 70 limit south of Smokey Point, down to around milepost 196, that could be managed by computers to adjust to changing conditions (undoubtedly an issue south of Smokey Point). There would be a good chunk of hours where it may only display 60, but at least it would permit traffic, during off hours, to proceed at a rate that is arguably within the bounds of safe travel.

[compdude787]

It would be rather specious to assume that the 60 limit was the reason for the reduction in crashes, if it very nearly coincided with the installation of a barrier.

I agree with this. Lower speed limits don't really make roads safer. I-5 would do fine with 65 mph speed limits in suburban areas.

Also the speed reports that WSDOT publishes are quite interesting. I'm surprised how high some of the 85th percentile speeds are.

[Bruce]

The legislature passed SB 5825, which makes the SR 167 HOT lanes permanent (instead of a pilot) and adds new funding for the SR 509/167 Gateway project that could bring the completion date to 2028, thanks to additional bond revenue.

https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/traffic-news/construction-on-sr-167-sr-509-could-end-3-years-early/281-c83f9dda-82f0-4f91-b2e5-2082cac3394a

[jakeroot]

The legislature passed SB 5825, which makes the SR 167 HOT lanes permanent (instead of a pilot) and adds new funding for the SR 509/167 Gateway project that could bring the completion date to 2028, thanks to additional bond revenue.

https://www.king5.com/article/traffic/traffic-news/construction-on-sr-167-sr-509-could-end-3-years-early/281-c83f9dda-82f0-4f91-b2e5-2082cac3394a

Always good to hear when a completion date is pulled forward. A lot of south-sounders don't seem to realize that the 167 and 509 are genuinely funded for construction, but everyone is dismayed at the 2031 completion date. The impatience is compounded by the sheer number of snowbirds who are used to Arizona-style construction (which is wicked-quick in comparison).

[KEK Inc.]

Variable speed technology is pricey, and I think its application is more valuable in stretches of urban freeways that have blind corners.  I can see it being incredibly useful all the way up to where I-5 crosses the Snohomish River in N. Everett; however, I don't see it practical north of there.

I think a variable speed zone should be applied to the section just south of the Enchantment Park all the way down to SR-512 in both directions.  (I know, the Fife drag is a straight-shot and contradicts my assessment of the Smokey Pt.-Marysville-Snohomish Slough run, but I've consistently run into traffic just after the bend and there are some dicey merging and sharp bends to justify placement there.)

405 definitely needs it in its entirety. 

[jakeroot]

I would absolutely agree that variable speed limits are a huge asset in urban areas, especially where there are many blind corners (405, as you say). Anywhere they aren't currently used, they should be installed.

I would make the case that those variable speed signs should be extended into areas that are perhaps rural, perhaps suburban. Fringe areas where traffic sometimes exists, sometimes doesn't. South of Smokey Point, north of Olympia, west of North Bend, etc. Why? Traffic doesn't always exist in these areas, so its imperative that drivers have some form of alert when slow traffic does form, so they don't go flying into stopped cars that they didn't see coming.

Not sure I agree that straight stretches aren't necessarily deserving of variable limits. Any stretch of freeway with lots of trucks (really, any interstate and many state routes) limits distant visibility. As a driver of a small hatchback, I appreciate variable limits because they inform me of slower traffic ahead, even if I couldn't see the slower traffic with my own eyes. This is the case both when there are blind corners, and/or when I physically cannot see beyond more than a few cars in front of me.

[ErmineNotyours]

I didn't think there was any more button copy on I-5, but last night I saw this sign in Marysville.

[Bruce]

I didn't think there was any more button copy on I-5, but last night I saw this sign in Marysville.

I've passed this sign hundreds of times and never noticed that it was button copy. It was overshadowed by the filthy overhead gantry at the exit.

[thefraze_1020]

I didn't think there was any more button copy on I-5, but last night I saw this sign in Marysville.

Shhhhh! No one needs to know it's there. Once word gets out, it'll be gone. Seriously though this sign is in very good shape for its age. Since it has exit numbers, it has to be newer than the early 1970's. I believe exit numbers were introduced to Washington around 1972.

[jakeroot]

It was overshadowed by the filthy overhead gantry at the exit.

No kidding. Some of those signs on 5 through Marysville and Everett (particularly near the Boeing Fwy) are disgusting. They're not even that old. Something must not have been applied correctly.