UPDATE: New CONN prototype markers

[ctsignguy]

Just a quick update.....

after considering a couple of suggestions, plus ConnDOT's lukewarm response to the colored shields, i went back to Jake's and my favorite sign lady and here is what we came up with (Thanks to Jake for mocking them up!)

This is a variation of the classic Merritt Parkway design.  I did take one suggestion to redo the markers as a different route, so there would be no mistaking that this is for general use.....



(Actually, this was made in error due to a mix-up.....but i think it makes a nice contrast to the other sign....)



I am leaving for Virginia (Micheal Summa) then New England....i may or may not be here depending if the hotels i stay at have a computer with internet for guests

[mightyace]

They're both nice.

I actually like the "mix up" (i.e. mostly black one) better.  IMHO, it really highlights the CONN. and the Connecticut state outline.  But, either would be better than the generic squares they use now.

[hbelkins]

I like them both, especially the "mistake" with the black outline.

Give Michael Summa my best. i have never had the privilege of meeting him, although we have exchanged a lot of emails and have spoken on the phone a couple of times.

[Alps]

I third the idea that the black-background one is better - looks more modern since most states have gone away from white shields with black "hairline" borders inside (VA, NH are two examples).  I just met Michael Summa myself since I was on US 11.  Talk about your enthusiasts, no one could be more enthusiastic.  Unforgettable man, truly an asset to our community.

[Roadgeek Adam]

I like the second one (the black background) lot more interesting

[hbelkins]

I third the idea that the black-background one is better - looks more modern since most states have gone away from white shields with black "hairline" borders inside (VA, NH are two examples).  I just met Michael Summa myself since I was on US 11.  Talk about your enthusiasts, no one could be more enthusiastic.  Unforgettable man, truly an asset to our community.

I understand that Mr. Summa doesn't get around too well or do much traveling these days. I would love it if someone could set up a meet in the Blacksburg/Christiansburg area so he could attend.

[wytout]

Both have my Thumb's up!

[Alex]

Both shields look fantastic John!

[kurumi]

I like the second one as well.

On a BGS, it might look best to just use the state shape in white and numerals in black -- no "CONN".

[ctsignguy]

Greetings from Wilmington DE, via Wash (Scandal City), Baltimore and Virginny.......

Mike S extends his greetings to all you guys....he isnt on line much as constant typing like most of us...it can be literally a pain for him...and he said if there was a sign/road meet in Roanoke, he would be game....

Checked in , now to scout around while the light is still there

[Ian]

You aren't far from me 

[Hellfighter]

Second one looks more authentic!

[Bickendan]

Second one.

[vdeane]

Am I the only one here that prefers the first?  It conforms more with normal route markers - black on white.

[ctsignguy]

Greetings from Massachusetts, and here is the update....

I did give Jeff at ConnDOT Sign Shop the two markers....he LOVES the black with white state marker (B) and thinks THAT could be sold to his bosses!  So, i will call him in a month or two and find out the response (He says they may have to toy with it a bit to allow for 12-inch numbers their regs call for, but he thinks it is a damn-good looking sign!)

When i was there he was talking with one of his overseers about changing the sheeting to at least hex sheet to better comply with Federal Standards, and he was concerned that engineering sheet wouldnt be up to the task much longer....so who knows....maybe if he gets his way with new sheet, he can change the markers over too!

But B looks like it may actually stand a damn good chance of appearing on the Connecticut roads in the next few years...

[wytout]

I hope he can sell sell sell!  It IS a damn good sign!

[mightyace]

  WOW! 

Given your past dealing with the folks there, this is a major step forward!

Kudos for you regardless of what happens next! 

[ctsignguy]

OK, everyone

Talked for a few minutes with Jeff at ConnDOT and got an update....

Good news and bad news......

Bad news first...right now, things are on a bit of a hold due to other things going on right now...they are looking at hex sheet for full-time use on route markers and other signage, among other topics...

Good news, though...he has gotten some VERY positive feedback regarding the appearance of the mostly black 156, so at this point, i would say, while '"on the back-burner" for now, it is still alive as a future possibility....

[papaT10932]

OK, everyone

Talked for a few minutes with Jeff at ConnDOT and got an update....

Good news and bad news......

Bad news first...right now, things are on a bit of a hold due to other things going on right now...they are looking at hex sheet for full-time use on route markers and other signage, among other topics...

Good news, though...he has gotten some VERY positive feedback regarding the appearance of the mostly black 156, so at this point, i would say, while '"on the back-burner" for now, it is still alive as a future possibility....

What we have to understand when proposing a change such as this is that not only does this change have to be sold to the DOT, but also the citizens of Connecticut. At a time when many people are struggling to find work and pay their bills, replacing highway signs seems like a waste of money, and probably, understandably so.

If the ConnDOT is really on board with a future change, they're probably waiting for the economy to pick up so they can sell the idea to Connecticuters and have a positive reaction.

But, many Congrats on your progress! I look forward to the day I can drive on a windy, scenic CT road and spot one of your great signs!!

[froggie]

No offense, but I prefer Wytout's shield design...

[Scott5114]

See, but what puts that argument to bed is that ConnDOT is replacing signs anyway, without the new sign design. There's two ways that shield designs can be changed out:

1) The South Carolina method, which advocates the replacement of signs on a gradual basis. As signs wear out and are destroyed, they are replaced with the new design. If cost is a major concern this is the way to do it. The only cost is whatever the difference in cost between old and new designs is. SC is doing this, as well as LA. Drawback is you have two different highway signs representing your state highways at the same time, which could be confusing to naive drivers if the signs are radically different. If the South Carolina method is used then cost is essentially a non-starter for those arguing against it.

2) The Oklahoma method, which is to replace all the signs. ODOT announced the changeover in January 2006 to honor the Oklahoma Centennial in 2007 and had the changeover mostly done as planned by December 31. This will cost more, naturally, but the cost can be mitigated (as ODOT did) by reusing sign blanks that are in good condition and selling the remainder as scrap aluminum. A perhaps more-bright idea would be to place the signs up for sale on the DOT website to allow roadgeeks and others to pay what they think the sign is worth, which is likely to be more than the scrap price. Remember, not just roadgeeks like having signs; restaurateurs often do too, and if the program can keep a mischievous college student from yanking a sign, that's money in the DOT's pocket.

There are benefits to this method, mainly PR-related: because theoretically every sign is being replaced (naturally there will be scragglers, especially as trailblazers and JCT signs off the highway system, but that gives alignment-hunters something to look for), it is a great way to scrub the highway system of all signage errors, nonstandard signs, and badly damaged signs. As a result the highway system has a "fresher" look. Also, you get all state highways on the same shield within the changeover period, reducing confusion. One further benefit is the opportunity to trumpet a "Completed As Promised" blast if the changeover is successfully completed in the alloted time period.

[papaT10932]

You and I know that there are ways to replace SH markers through limited costs.... but again, to sell it to the public is hard. A change of this nature will, without a doubt, be spun into a "waste of taxpayer money" even if it costs little or no additional tax dollars.

If I were you, ctsignguy, I will let the issue rest for the time being, but don't ignore it. If it goes by the wayside for too long, whatever impressions you've made with the ConnDOT will be stashed into "file 9" and forgotten about. Please keep at it!!

If you are interested, I urge you to try producing signs for other states. It seems you have the resources to do it. NJDOT made it seem clear they are not interested with new signs. However, maybe Maine, Rhode Island, or Massachusetts will be interested with the idea. Would you be willing to try in those states? Here are some samples that I made that could at least begin the dialogue:

 

[ctsignguy]

You and I know that there are ways to replace SH markers through limited costs.... but again, to sell it to the public is hard. A change of this nature will, without a doubt, be spun into a "waste of taxpayer money" even if it costs little or no additional tax dollars.

If I were you, ctsignguy, I will let the issue rest for the time being, but don't ignore it. If it goes by the wayside for too long, whatever impressions you've made with the ConnDOT will be stashed into "file 9" and forgotten about. Please keep at it!!

If you are interested, I urge you to try producing signs for other states. It seems you have the resources to do it. NJDOT made it seem clear they are not interested with new signs. However, maybe Maine, Rhode Island, or Massachusetts will be interested with the idea. Would you be willing to try in those states? Here are some samples that I made that could at least begin the dialogue:

 

Well, i wont revisit it again until maybe when i take my next New England trip in May or June...I do agree...you want to keep it warm without overdoing it and alienating the support needed to make this happen....

Now, as to your prototypes....i think the biggest possible objections to two of them might be legibility.  I am not certain that Massachusetts and Rhode Island could be easily seen at distance....plus they might involve too much work in set up.

First, the MASS sign. I am presuming the shape is from the State seal.  I think it could be made more legible by dropping the minuteman logo from the bottom, and replacing it with "MA" (post office abbreviation for Massachusetts).  This could also allow for a slightly larger number....

Rhody is a good start.  That anchor design could work better with the traditional "RI"  (not as many letters to cram into the crown)....

Maine, i have to think on a bit more...Oklahoma is now the only state using white backgrounds...

Oh, and Froggie, no offense taken.  I think wytout's shield is a nice-looking sign as well, but given that ConnDOT is sticking to black and white, that design has no real chance as it currently is designed...

[papaT10932]

Of course, I didn't mean to suggest that my designs are anything to be set in stone. They are just suggestions to serve as "starting points". But, I have to disagree with Massachusetts. I would hope, that IF Massachusetts created a new SH marker, SOME SORT of colonial/revolutionary emblem would appear. The Revolution is so tied to the image of what most consider when they hear the name "Massachussets", it would be a shame if Mass ignored this if they redesigned their route markers. Massachussets is so tied to American history, which, in my opinion, makes their current blank signs so wrong for a state that promotes itself as the "Spirit of America". Perhaps a minuteman-type image can appear in some way.

And as for Maine, they already use a white background. You can't get more white than BLANK.  

But, please don't take offense to my suggestions. I'm just a rookie with a few ideas. You obviously have more experience and know-how. I don't mean to step over you.

I hope Connecticut will accept your sign sooner than later. That, I hope, will create the momentum for the other New England states to follow!

[Scott5114]

Florida also uses white backgrounds with black state outline.

I posted an alternative RI shield on the Highway Makeover: http://www.us-highways.com/newri.htm I'd love to see that become an actual highway shield.