Checking in from the road

[CanesFan27]

Alex,

You're not gonna find any road related items at FMM (Flea Market Montgomery).  :-p 

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2009/03/hey-hey.html or just look up Flea Market Montgomery on youtube.

There's a video of Billy and myself on facebook somewhere.  Last February, while in Atlanta for hockey, a few of us made a roadtrip down there just to visit.  After all, it's just like...it's just like, a mini-mall!

Living rooms, bedrooms, dinettes, oh yes!

To the left...to the right...let's make it a dance!  Too bad you weren't down to Atlanta on that one...it was a classic! (up there with the Greenfield Rotary of 2006) 

OT Story: A few weeks after the trip, I was at Jockey's Ridge State Park along the Outer Banks (i took a hang gliding class there on a vacation) and ran into some people from Montgomery.  When I said I just was there, they knew exactly why.  They say it's now Montgomery's biggest landmark.

[Alex]

I checked out both videos, amusing for sure. So I gather that its more a place for vendors as opposed to people just bringing a bunch of random stuff/"junk" to sell? The ones in Webster, Florida and Canton, Texas provide a mixture of both.

[CanesFan27]

I checked out both videos, amusing for sure. So I gather that its more a place for vendors as opposed to people just bringing a bunch of random stuff/"junk" to sell? The ones in Webster, Florida and Canton, Texas provide a mixture of both.

Yep, that's correct...it's all vendors.  But it's worth the visit, just for the novelty sake of it!

[hbelkins]

I checked out both videos, amusing for sure. So I gather that its more a place for vendors as opposed to people just bringing a bunch of random stuff/"junk" to sell? The ones in Webster, Florida and Canton, Texas provide a mixture of both.

Yep, that's correct...it's all vendors.  But it's worth the visit, just for the novelty sake of it!

The responses on MTR when this subject was broached there from the resident racist there were priceless.

[Alps]

Sad update for today's trip.  You'll see.  Started off in Birmingham with a little extra time, so I drove down US 11 (just to check out what it looks like in yet another state) to AL 150 and across to US 31.  Came back up 31 to 11 and headed north this time past Sloss Furnace (it's closed on Mondays) and over to I-459, then back into the city on I-20 (which also has some old button copy).  Left Birmingham and went to Selma on US 31 SB (made some time up on I-65 too) to AL 191 and then AL 22 into town.
Selma has a powerful feeling all its own.  Water Street is a remnant of before the Civil War, and you can walk out on the original 19th century bridge abutment, look down and see the remaining abutment (bridge destroyed in 1940), then look over and see Edmund Pettus Bridge.  Now, if you don't know the history of that bridge, you owe it to yourself to look up Bloody Sunday and the March to Montgomery.  It was incredible to walk onto that bridge and think of the footsteps that have walked that way before.  In fact, on the east end of the bridge is the National Voting Rights Center, and I MET one of those people and got to talk to her.  So far, today was amazing...
Then I left Selma on Business 80 (the mainline at the time of the march) and back up newer 80 to AL 140 and then across AL 14 to Prattville.  I came down West Blvd. to South Blvd., and here is sad news #1: Flea Market Montgomery did not live up to my expectations.  A large part of the flea market appeared to be undergoing renovation, but I didn't ask whether that was actually the case.  A lot of the rest of it was empty, and Sammy Stephens was nowhere to be found.  I'm hoping that this is just a major upgrade to the existing facility and I caught them at an inopportune moment.  Sad news #2: From there, when I took I-85 to I-65 in both directions, I found that all the old signs on 65 have now met the same fate as the ones on 85.  I found a grand total of two button copy signs on I-65, both north of town toward Prattville.  So, here I am in Birmingham, about to eat some soul food and drink more local brew.

[Alex]

Then I left Selma on Business 80 (the mainline at the time of the march) and back up newer 80 to AL 140 and then across AL 14 to Prattville.  I came down West Blvd. to South Blvd., and here is sad news #1: Flea Market Montgomery did not live up to my expectations.  A large part of the flea market appeared to be undergoing renovation, but I didn't ask whether that was actually the case.  A lot of the rest of it was empty, and Sammy Stephens was nowhere to be found.  I'm hoping that this is just a major upgrade to the existing facility and I caught them at an inopportune moment. 

A lot of businesses along South Boulevard are shuttered and the whole arterial appears to be grim economically...

Sad news #2: From there, when I took I-85 to I-65 in both directions, I found that all the old signs on 65 have now met the same fate as the ones on 85.  I found a grand total of two button copy signs on I-65, both north of town toward Prattville.  So, here I am in Birmingham, about to eat some soul food and drink more local brew.

Most of the button copy along Interstate 65 was removed years ago. The last panel for I-65 north ahead of the split with I-85 went with the current project to widen the roadway. The classic button copy is still in place along AL 21 south ahead of junction US 80 though. There may be a few other button copy odds and ends sign around the Day Street beginning of Interstate 85.

[agentsteel53]

If "old signs" is your sole focus, then true there isn't much to see in Georgia.  But there's a lot more to see out there than just "old signs"...

well, scenery-wise it's fairly uneventful too.


wrong Georgia.

[Alps]

Most of the button copy along Interstate 65 was removed years ago. The last panel for I-65 north ahead of the split with I-85 went with the current project to widen the roadway. The classic button copy is still in place along AL 21 south ahead of junction US 80 though. There may be a few other button copy odds and ends sign around the Day Street beginning of Interstate 85.

If I have some extra time I'll give Day St. a try.  By AL 21 south, do you mean US 31 SB just west of I-65 where it crosses US 80 south of town?  Doesn't look like there's any there based on Google SV.  I'll try to check in real quickly in the morning again and see if anyone has any other helpful hints for things to see in Muntgumery.

[agentsteel53]

things to see in Muntgumery.

old 80 eastbound, inside the beltway but well outside downtown (several blocks east of the old 80/231 split): there is a stone marker for Jefferson Davis Highway.  Dates back to the auto trail days (late 1910s, early '20s).

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montgomery+al&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=21.736617,55.722656&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Montgomery,+Alabama&ll=32.382317,-86.268969&spn=0.000704,0.002722&z=19&layer=c&cbll=32.382286,-86.269065&panoid=5zvE-pPOxKOhh3DsaNiakQ&cbp=12,76.45,,0,5

that is where it is.  Not far east of the old 80 (Atlanta Hwy) and old 231 (Federal Drive) split.  In the parking lot of a church.  

also, there is a US-331 sign downtown in front of the state house, that should have been removed when 331 was truncated to the South St beltway.  The sign dates to 1989; the route was truncated in 1990.

[Alex]

Most of the button copy along Interstate 65 was removed years ago. The last panel for I-65 north ahead of the split with I-85 went with the current project to widen the roadway. The classic button copy is still in place along AL 21 south ahead of junction US 80 though. There may be a few other button copy odds and ends sign around the Day Street beginning of Interstate 85.

If I have some extra time I'll give Day St. a try.  By AL 21 south, do you mean US 31 SB just west of I-65 where it crosses US 80 south of town?  Doesn't look like there's any there based on Google SV.  I'll try to check in real quickly in the morning again and see if anyone has any other helpful hints for things to see in Muntgumery.

http://www.southeastroads.com/alabama030/us-031_sb_app_us-080_01.jpg - aforementioned button copy sign

The Day Street overhead at the ramp split between I-65 south to I-85 north was still button copy on January 10.

There are graded ramps and roadways for the unconstructed Montgomery south bypass out near Alabama 293 perhaps worth checking out.

[Alps]

Well, I took Alex's and Jake's suggestions and had an enjoyable morning in Montgomery.  I did a downtown walkaround with my extra time, but unfortunately for whatever reason, there was no one answering the door at the MLK museum, so at 10:15 I decided to pass and continue on with my journey.  The next stop was on east in Tuskegee, where I took US 80 instead of I-85 thanks to my extra time, and saw the famous college and Airmen museums.  Again thanks to the extra time, I clinched AL 199 and 81 before heading south on US 29 to AL 93 and US 231.  I cut over to Enterprise on AL 125 and 167 to see the boll weevil monument downtown (a monument TO the pest, which forced them to industrialize when their crops were devastated).  I landed in Pensacola for the night via AL 27 into former FL S-185 - and there were some interesting remnants of the old state highway, including new old-style county route shields - and US 331 to US 98 west.  There was a ton of traffic on US 98 despite it being decidedly off-season, so I guess being the only road in or out for several large communities makes it troublesome at rush hour.

The next day (yesterday), I went west to Mobile (not much traffic, actually), exploring downtown and taking in both of the tunnels (I-10, US 98).  There was some more interesting stuff downtown, but I'll have to review my photos to remember.  From there, it was up I-110 and back out US 98 west to Hattiesburg.  Hello, Mississippi!  For the record, US 11 is not signed well inside the city, and there are no markings of state maintenance.  I headed up 11 instead of I-59, again taking advantage of some extra time I had, past the blue shield in Laurel and on up to AL 14.  I swung up to Moundville via AL 60 and 69 but decided not to pay (there are many free Indian mound sites around the MS/AL area, by which I mean hundreds), so I went up 69 into Tuscaloosa and switched to US 82 WB.  I-359 has the only reflective-background button copy I saw in Alabama.  82 and its old alignments (all marked CR 140 and then CR 30) brought me into Columbus on MS 182.  I stopped at Tennessee William's house and they gave me an antebellum house tour.  I found them all and left Columbus (a couple of older overhead signs there, perhaps even dating to US 82) on US 45 north (and MS 145 when it appeared) to Tupelo for the night.

Side question - Why does MS have so many damn pieces of the same route?  Was it really worried about running out of routes?  Why not 145A, 145B, etc. if that was truly going to be a problem?  Incidentally, I found an old US 82 shield (white background) on one of its old alignments, and a blade sign on another one (or maybe the same one) that referred to it as US 82 still.

Today's route started as the Elvis Route - Tupelo to Memphis - but I used the new US 78, aka Future I-22.  That thing has a ton of traffic at the TN state line - you really can't drop an Interstate down to a signalized urban highway without at the very least adding a lane!  I poked around Memphis, traveling I-240 and former 240 (now just signed as 40) and all of TN 385, part of which is discontiguous and overlays future I-269.  If I-269 ever opens south of TN 385, that'll have to change so they don't have a T route.  I dropped down out of Memphis eventually, clinching MS 301, 304, 713, and all of the southern I-69 (for now), then down US 61.  That is one BORING road, especially when the casino traffic leaves at Tunica, so I was happy to leave it and travel MS 1 (the Great River Road) for awhile.  I stopped at the Winterville Mounds, then headed east from Greenville on US 82 to Greenwood.  Along the route was Leland, the official home of Kermit the Frog, where I had a nice chat with the woman who staffs the welcome center about Jim Henson, his friends and family.  Finally, as the hour was getting late, I came down US 49E to US 49 and Jackson.  Tonight, I clinched I-220 before finding my hotel.  Today was the longest driving day - 12.5 hours on the road, although some of it was certainly spent out of the car.

[Scott5114]

Side question - Why does MS have so many damn pieces of the same route?  Was it really worried about running out of routes?  Why not 145A, 145B, etc. if that was truly going to be a problem?

Wait till you get to Arkansas

[froggie]

From there, it was up I-110 and back out US 98 west to Hattiesburg.  Hello, Mississippi!  For the record, US 11 is not signed well inside the city, and there are no markings of state maintenance.  I headed up 11 instead of I-59, again taking advantage of some extra time I had, past the blue shield in Laurel and on up to AL 14.

US 11 is locally maintained within Hattiesburg (from where it becomes Pine St north to old MS 42) and Laurel (I-59 overpass to roughly Chantilly St).  This is why it isn't signed well in Hattiesburg and why you saw a blue shield in Laurel (which I apparently missed during my Mississippi days).  Up until the early 2000s, there were also a pair of blue US 11 shields in Hattiesburg.

Side question - Why does MS have so many damn pieces of the same route?

MDOT policy, directed in part by the state legislature, is that old U.S. highway alignments that remain on the state highway system after being bypassed will be given a MS 1xx designation, with the xx being the number of the US highway in question.  This is why there are several MS 145, MS 161, MS 184, etc etc, segments.

but I used the new US 78, aka Future I-22.  That thing has a ton of traffic at the TN state line - you really can't drop an Interstate down to a signalized urban highway without at the very least adding a lane!

This dates back to each state's decision on how to build US 78 ca. the early-70s.  TDOT/city of Memphis built it as an arterial, while MDOT built it as a freeway.

[exit322]

That's nice that MS does that so that we can see where the old route was.

Ohio isn't nearly as good at that.  Numerous old alignments of US 62 NE of Columbus are county road, if they're even passable anymore.

[froggie]

To be fair, not every segment of old US highway remains on the state highway system.  And the policy applies mainly to older segments that were bypassed by new 4-lane highway since the early '70s.

[exit322]

Indeed - but at least with 62 up here, very little is kept on the system.  In Knox County, they're beaten into obscurity; in Holmes County, at least, they're county roads with a 62 prefix (620, 621, 622, etc).

[Alex]

The next day (yesterday), I went west to Mobile (not much traffic, actually), exploring downtown and taking in both of the tunnels (I-10, US 98).  There was some more interesting stuff downtown, but I'll have to review my photos to remember. 

The main traffic problems in Mobile are the arterials, though the tunnel is increasingly a problem during peak hours because of the narrowing from four to two lanes from the west and the uneasiness of drivers with the descend into the tunnel (speeds often drop below 50 mph nowadays).

What did you see that was interesting in downtown Mobile? Points of interest?

[FLRoads]

There was a ton of traffic on US 98 despite it being decidedly off-season, so I guess being the only road in or out for several large communities makes it troublesome at rush hour.

To answer that question about U.S. 98, there was a multi-vehicle accident in the Navarre area that pretty much gridlocked the highway from the Okaloosa Island area west to Navarre. I had to sit in it for an hour and a half!! Hopefully other than that incident you liked our area of Florida!!

82 and its old alignments (all marked CR 140 and then CR 30) brought me into Columbus on MS 182.

Did you happen to find the albino U.S. 82 shield at the west end of CR 140? Not sure if you also noticed but there is an old triangle shield for CR 2 in Coker. It is on the eastbound side of CR 140.

Incidentally, I found an old US 82 shield (white background) on one of its old alignments, and a blade sign on another one (or maybe the same one) that referred to it as US 82 still.

Where by chance did you find the old U.S. 82 shield?

[Alps]

The main traffic problems in Mobile are the arterials, though the tunnel is increasingly a problem during peak hours because of the narrowing from four to two lanes from the west and the uneasiness of drivers with the descend into the tunnel (speeds often drop below 50 mph nowadays).

What did you see that was interesting in downtown Mobile? Points of interest?

Yeah, speeds were down below 50 mph, but still no traffic heading in during morning rush hour.  Points of interest, no.  Signs and shields, yes.

To answer that question about U.S. 98, there was a multi-vehicle accident in the Navarre area that pretty much gridlocked the highway from the Okaloosa Island area west to Navarre. I had to sit in it for an hour and a half!! Hopefully other than that incident you liked our area of Florida!!

Didn't seem THAT bad.  It kept moving, just two steady lines of traffic for miles and miles on end with no relief.  Wish I knew all of y'all lived in the panhandle; I'd have made sure to meet y'all for dinner!

Did you happen to find the albino U.S. 82 shield at the west end of CR 140? Not sure if you also noticed but there is an old triangle shield for CR 2 in Coker. It is on the eastbound side of CR 140.

I did find the "albino" shield, and am just a tad disappointed someone else already knew about it.   Did not see the triangle shield, it's possible that I wasn't on that particular stretch of 140.

Incidentally, I found an old US 82 shield (white background) on one of its old alignments, and a blade sign on another one (or maybe the same one) that referred to it as US 82 still.

Where by chance did you find the old U.S. 82 shield?

I _think_ that's the same as your "albino" one?

[Alps]

Trip report for today - Toured downtown Jackson for a bit, scoping out some architecture and the old battlefield along US 82.  Headed west on MS 18 to MS 467 - which apparently begins north of Raymond, despite the intimations of both Google Maps and the MS state map - and on up to I-20.  I was going to tour some of old US 80, but thanks again to the MS state map, I ended up on the wrong side of the railroad tracks and followed Warrior's Path.  Oh well.  Vicksburg is a beautiful city, with great river views and bridge views.  The welcome center off I-20 lets you walk partway down old 80 toward the MS River bridge, but you can only cross on 20 (which I did).  Then it was through Louisiana on US 80 to US 65.  I can't believe how flat that land is so close to the river, compared to Mississippi just across it.  You can always tell where the river is by the levees built up along it.  I stayed on US 65 through Arkansas onto I-530, and can happily report that the last two-lane section of 65 north of US 82 is on the way to four-laning.  Part is paved, most is at least graded, and half has opened since the 2008 AR map.  I tooled around Little Rock for a bit on 30, 40, 430, and 630, and saw the Old Mill that was constructed for Gone with the Wind.  Here I am now off 630, and my narrative will continue... tomorrow?  Who knows...

[froggie]

Headed west on MS 18 to MS 467 - which apparently begins north of Raymond, despite the intimations of both Google Maps and the MS state map - and on up to I-20.

The Mississippi state map isn't wrong per se.  It just doesn't go into detail enough to denote MS 467's actual terminus.  Google Maps...well...is Google Maps, and we all know the many irregularities and inaccuracies they have.

I was going to tour some of old US 80, but thanks again to the MS state map, I ended up on the wrong side of the railroad tracks and followed Warrior's Path.

You still were on "old US 80" along Warrior's Path.  That's the original US 80.  You were probably intending to follow what is really "version 2", with the current routing along I-20 being "version 3".


As a side note, I've found it easier to use the individual state DeLorme atlases than the state highway maps when following obscure roads/routes.

[FLRoads]

Didn't seem THAT bad.  It kept moving, just two steady lines of traffic for miles and miles on end with no relief.  Wish I knew all of y'all lived in the panhandle; I'd have made sure to meet y'all for dinner!

Well the accident happened about 5pm just east of Navarre and snarled traffic for about 2 hours, so perhaps you missed it entirely. Well, maybe next time we make it up your way we will do dinner!!

I did find the "albino" shield, and am just a tad disappointed someone else already knew about it.   Did not see the triangle shield, it's possible that I wasn't on that particular stretch of 140.

Well, I have quickly become known as "Mr. Lower Alabama" by some since I have made many roadtrips into the state since moving up here to the panhandle...

You can see the triangle shield on the gallery here.

And the U.S. 82 shield I was referring to is also on the gallery here.

Hope you are enjoying your trip!! I cannot wait to get some vacation time so we can finally go somewhere new...

[Alps]

Headed west on MS 18 to MS 467 - which apparently begins north of Raymond, despite the intimations of both Google Maps and the MS state map - and on up to I-20.

The Mississippi state map isn't wrong per se.  It just doesn't go into detail enough to denote MS 467's actual terminus.  Google Maps...well...is Google Maps, and we all know the many irregularities and inaccuracies they have.

No, the MS map clearly shows 467 continuing as a blue line to 18.

I was going to tour some of old US 80, but thanks again to the MS state map, I ended up on the wrong side of the railroad tracks and followed Warrior's Path.

You still were on "old US 80" along Warrior's Path.  That's the original US 80.  You were probably intending to follow what is really "version 2", with the current routing along I-20 being "version 3".

That does make sense - I feel better about it now.  Incidentally, what the MS map shows is the little connector road from I-20 clearly crossing the RR tracks before hitting old 80.

As a side note, I've found it easier to use the individual state DeLorme atlases than the state highway maps when following obscure roads/routes.

True, but this was a spur of the moment decision to deviate from my planned route.  I don't mind getting a little lost, because some of the most interesting things are discovered that way.

[Alps]

And the U.S. 82 shield I was referring to is also on the gallery here.

That's the one!

[FLRoads]

I figured it was the one!!