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Author Topic: Washington  (Read 248309 times)

Plutonic Panda

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1150 on: April 18, 2022, 06:25:40 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.
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Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1151 on: April 18, 2022, 06:37:56 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1152 on: April 18, 2022, 06:46:43 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.
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compdude787

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1153 on: April 18, 2022, 08:59:49 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.
Just an extra northbound lane is really all that's needed. That will eliminate the chokepoint just south of the Snohomish River Bridge. I don't think I've experienced too many backups going southbound.

Plutonic Panda

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1154 on: April 18, 2022, 10:34:38 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.
Just an extra northbound lane is really all that's needed. That will eliminate the chokepoint just south of the Snohomish River Bridge. I don't think I've experienced too many backups going southbound.
Yeah NB is really where it’s needed the most.
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kkt

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1155 on: April 18, 2022, 11:32:31 PM »

WSDOT has awarded a $123 million contract for the I-5 HOV extension to Marysville and new ramps at SR 529. Set to begin construction this year and be complete by 2025.

https://www.heraldnet.com/news/i-5-hov-lane-highway-529-interchange-work-to-start-this-year/

Woo!
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1156 on: April 19, 2022, 12:02:59 AM »

Induced demand is a thing, but they should also improve the SR-9 corridor for N-S traffic.  I do think HOV lanes should be extended all the way to Smokey Point, but there's no real way to widen the bridge over the Snohomish River, so will it just be 2 GP and 1 HOV? 
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Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1157 on: April 19, 2022, 01:03:35 AM »

I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.

It's really only the Boeing traffic that clogs it, plus anomalies like Tulip Festival. Otherwise it's as normal as other sections and doesn't warrant expensive expansions that sap funding from much needed work elsewhere (SR 529's bridges will soon be due for major replacement, for example).

Induced demand is a thing, but they should also improve the SR-9 corridor for N-S traffic.  I do think HOV lanes should be extended all the way to Smokey Point, but there's no real way to widen the bridge over the Snohomish River, so will it just be 2 GP and 1 HOV? 

The shoulders and lane widths are being shaved to fit in the extra HOV lane, which I'm not all that enthused about. The narrowed lanes are definitely going to cause some side-swipes judging by how erratic the drivers in the area normally are.

Extending to Smokey Point would be unnecessary for now, as traffic doesn't normally jam up beyond SR 528. SR 9 needs more roundabouts and some passing sections, but otherwise doesn't need to be more expressway-like.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1158 on: April 19, 2022, 01:22:16 AM »

The shoulders and lane widths are being shaved to fit in the extra HOV lane, which I'm not all that enthused about. The narrowed lanes are definitely going to cause some side-swipes judging by how erratic the drivers in the area normally are.
I had the same thought for I-90 through Mercer Island, but it's not too bad.  Honestly, narrower lanes will make people less comfortable speeding.  As long as the lanes are at least 12'. 

Extending to Smokey Point would be unnecessary for now, as traffic doesn't normally jam up beyond SR 528. SR 9 needs more roundabouts and some passing sections, but otherwise doesn't need to be more expressway-like.
When I go hiking on Mtn. Loop Hwy, it's always a nightmare at Lake Stevens, but the two signals next to each other on 204 and 9 are awful. 

Seems like there were plans to extend SR-92 west to I-5 looking at the signals stubs.  Probably would help with all of the mining trucks and Seattle hikers if they made 92 go to 5.   
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Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1159 on: April 19, 2022, 04:32:56 PM »

The shoulders and lane widths are being shaved to fit in the extra HOV lane, which I'm not all that enthused about. The narrowed lanes are definitely going to cause some side-swipes judging by how erratic the drivers in the area normally are.
I had the same thought for I-90 through Mercer Island, but it's not too bad.  Honestly, narrower lanes will make people less comfortable speeding.  As long as the lanes are at least 12'. 

I-90 drivers are a bit different than I-5 drivers. The narrowed lanes between Shoreline and Mountlake Terrace are nerve-wracking to drive through.

Seems like there were plans to extend SR-92 west to I-5 looking at the signals stubs.  Probably would help with all of the mining trucks and Seattle hikers if they made 92 go to 5.   

There's no viable way to get SR 92 all the way to I-5. The current plan is to extend a city street to SR 92 and connect with 83rd Avenue, which would allow for access to Sunnyside Blvd. via several narrow country roads.
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Bickendan

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1160 on: April 19, 2022, 04:51:08 PM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.
If you're at 6+2 and arguing for further widening, it's time to improve rail transit, both passenger and freight, because in addition to the costs of the larger ROW footprint, the threshold of diminishing returns is rapidly approaching in terms of flow and capacity.
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stevashe

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1161 on: April 19, 2022, 04:55:29 PM »

The shoulders and lane widths are being shaved to fit in the extra HOV lane, which I'm not all that enthused about. The narrowed lanes are definitely going to cause some side-swipes judging by how erratic the drivers in the area normally are.
I had the same thought for I-90 through Mercer Island, but it's not too bad.  Honestly, narrower lanes will make people less comfortable speeding.  As long as the lanes are at least 12'. 

Haha about that, the standard lane width is 12'... these narrowed lanes will only be 11. But you are saying I-90 across Mercer Island is okay and those lanes are also only 11', for reference.
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Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1162 on: April 19, 2022, 05:05:35 PM »

If you're at 6+2 and arguing for further widening, it's time to improve rail transit, both passenger and freight, because in addition to the costs of the larger ROW footprint, the threshold of diminishing returns is rapidly approaching in terms of flow and capacity.

Exactly. The Snohomish River Delta is one of the natural barriers that make for ideal transit markets. A public-private split to build replacements for the aging BNSF bridges with a DMU-based Sounder service to feed Link light rail at Everett Station would be a huge boost in capacity.
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bubblewhale

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1163 on: April 26, 2022, 03:06:49 AM »

It seems like they should also add a GP lane or two while they’re at it.

That would require rebuilding the bridges across the Snohomish River, Union Slough, Ebey Slough, and Steamboat Slough. Not to mention rebuilding the section through Everett again. All expensive and much more disruptive for little to no benefit.

We don't want to turn even more of SnoCo into endless sprawl. 6 lanes + 2 HOV is enough for our needs.
I disagree. It would be worth it and the traffic shows. That stretch gets clogged too often.
Just an extra northbound lane is really all that's needed. That will eliminate the chokepoint just south of the Snohomish River Bridge. I don't think I've experienced too many backups going southbound.

Typically, it isn't too bad going SB for most part, but I'd agree that NB would need some leeway. Last year NB was rough when they'd started to repaint Stillaguamish and backups started around US2/Marine View with pockets in between. I usually don't think it's too bad once you make it past Marine View, since the section is alright if there weren't any odd events happening.
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jakeroot

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1164 on: May 12, 2022, 12:07:50 PM »

Cross-post from the 509/167 thread:

New visualisations of the 509 extension at 188th and 160th.

Slight change to the interchange design at 188th (1/4 partial cloverleaf with roundabouts) and some new roundabouts at the existing partial cloverleaf at 160th.

Warning for the cartographers: both visuals are south-up, confusingly.


SR 509 Completion Project Visualization: SR 509/South 160th Street Interchange by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


SR 509 Completion Project Visualization: SR 509/South 188th Street Interchange by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr

Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1165 on: May 17, 2022, 03:20:44 PM »

Metro Tacoma Parks is permanently closing the outer loop of File Mile Drive at Point Defiance Park to vehicle traffic due to erosion and slope instability. Pedestrians, bicyclists, and others on non-motorized wheels are allowed to continue using the scenic loop. Takes effect on May 20.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/matt-driscoll/article261496027.html
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stevashe

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1166 on: July 08, 2022, 04:48:53 PM »

Looks great! Here's hoping we can get those HOV lanes open soon in the next few months.

I'm especially looking forward to a complete auxiliary lane system between the 705 and Portland Ave / River Road exits. There is currently one, but I think the final plan is for two (one to Portland Ave, another to River Road/167).

Didn't take long on the second one! The auxiliary lanes are now open! https://wsdot.wa.gov/about/news/2022/i-5-tacoma-construction-nears-completion-opening-three-new-northbound-lanes
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jakeroot

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1167 on: July 08, 2022, 06:25:05 PM »

Looks great! Here's hoping we can get those HOV lanes open soon in the next few months.

I'm especially looking forward to a complete auxiliary lane system between the 705 and Portland Ave / River Road exits. There is currently one, but I think the final plan is for two (one to Portland Ave, another to River Road/167).

Didn't take long on the second one! The auxiliary lanes are now open! https://wsdot.wa.gov/about/news/2022/i-5-tacoma-construction-nears-completion-opening-three-new-northbound-lanes

Just noticed passing through Tacoma last week.

Curiously, I have yet to see that traditional slowdown northbound after Hwy 16 since those lanes opened.

jakeroot

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1168 on: July 12, 2022, 06:28:30 PM »

The red-yellow-yellow-yellow-green configuration of the side-mounted signals is certainly rather strange. My best guess is that they were protected-permissive signals using a version of the old Seattle configuration without a bimodal yellow/green arrow. Of course, if that was the case, that means the overhead left turn signals would have been replaced at some point, and those 3Ms look very old themselves, so who knows...

That's actually quite a good theory, and would explain why the signals appear old enough to have not been retrofitted (thus as they were originally installed, apart from the red arrow). Still, yeah, doesn't quite explain the also-old three-section signals overhead, and also the three-section signals post mounted at some of the intersection (Evergreen @ 4th Ave W has a 5-section signal for the westbound left turn, but a three section signal for the eastbound left turn...could be that only one of the directions was permissive...)

This new video from our favorite historic-footage YouTuber would suggest that these five-section tower signals were, almost certainly, Seattle-style flashing yellow orb signals. Although the actual signal is, frustratingly, not yet installed (see 1:00:25), the video does show flashing yellow orb signals at the three intersections outside the Everett Mall, and they include supplemental signals on the left corner (unlike Seattle installs) (see 1:04:30); given this, I think it's safe to assume that the mystery five-section signals were Seattle-style flashing yellow orb left turn signals. Now, the ones active in the video are four-section with, presumably, bimodal bottoms lenses, but that doesn't mean they didn't attempt to use five section non-bimodal signals at any point during the 80s or 90s.

Unfortunately, I still don't have an explanation for the older 3M signals. My best guess is that Everett made a policy change in the 1990s that dictated a changeover to protected-only phasing at certain key intersections, resulting in not only the change to protected phasing at the intersections with the "mystery" five-section signals, but also those outside the Everett Mall, and probably other locations too. I have to assume the overhead signals were doghouse design, to match the number of lenses on the corner without the verticality of a tower; perhaps to avoid an unusual looking signal, they swapped the doghouse signals for a standard three-lens signal, but simply retrofitted the five-section signals on the corners.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 06:31:28 PM by jakeroot »
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Bruce

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1169 on: July 13, 2022, 12:57:32 AM »

The video also shows some of Everett's unusual traffic signal gantries being installed for the first time on Everett Mall Way. As well as the old SR 99 / SR 525 concurrency that was replaced with an interchange in 2000.

And some historic retail: the original Aurora Village mall, old-style Costco in Lynnwood (now a Business Costco), Dag's on Aurora, Top Food & Drug, Thrifty Foods, The Bon in Everett...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 01:03:52 AM by Bruce »
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jakeroot

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1170 on: July 19, 2022, 08:09:27 PM »

New sign on northbound 167, along the section with the new HOV lane....... https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/roads-bridges/hov-lanes/hero-program


New HOV HERO sign by Jacob Root, on Flickr

stevashe

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1171 on: July 20, 2022, 01:55:55 AM »

New sign on northbound 167, along the section with the new HOV lane....... https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/roads-bridges/hov-lanes/hero-program


New HOV HERO sign by Jacob Root, on Flickr

I love it, the plans for the project must have been done before WSDOT decided to end the program and no one caught it. Just goes to show how the long timelines of road projects can lead to signage relics of the past living well beyond their expiration date.

I suppose this brings the number of these signs standing in the wild is now back up to one, assuming they didn't miss any when taking them down originally. Any bets on how long until it's back to zero?
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MisterRoadgeek

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1172 on: July 23, 2022, 07:44:39 PM »

Downtown Renton during my visit in October 2021.








Any updates of this? I don't live in the Pacific Northwest and I'm sort of curious of the downtown redesign.
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MisterRoadgeek

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1173 on: July 23, 2022, 07:47:34 PM »

Is this near Auburn?

New sign on northbound 167, along the section with the new HOV lane....... https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/roads-bridges/hov-lanes/hero-program


New HOV HERO sign by Jacob Root, on Flickr
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Washington
« Reply #1174 on: July 25, 2022, 07:20:31 PM »

The hero program ended last September.  Why are they putting new signs out?
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