Department of Redundancy Department

[sprjus4]

VA-168 Business (Battlefield Blvd) in Chesapeake, north of the Hickory area, has an advisory speed of 45 mph around this curve, though the speed limit is already 45 mph.

It's redundant now, though it's a left over from when the speed limit was 50 mph, and was never removed. The speed limit was dropped to 45 mph in order to attempt to deter drivers from avoiding tolls on the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168 Mainline). The speed limit is only 55 mph on the rural freeway (and it was also 55 mph on VA-168 Business south of Hickory, until lowered to 45 mph) and lowering the speed on VA-168 Business hasn't done anything in changing people's decisions. Until they raise the Expressway to 65 mph, which is a reasonable speed given the design of the freeway, and the rural environment, few people are likely to be "deterred" due to speed limits. Hardly anybody follows the 55 mph limit today as it is on the toll road.

[wanderer2575]

I just came across this 2007 photo in my collection.

[sprjus4]

I just came across this 2007 photo in my collection.

What about buses?

[Verlanka]

What about buses?

Probably will fall under the "truck" category.

[Rothman]

Nah.  Buses don't have to detour.

[kphoger]

Another possibility is that the main speed limit was at one time higher, but then got reduced and they did not adjust the school speed limit sign.

I believe that it is confusing to have a school speed limit sign without a speed reduction.  They could have a sign that warns of the presence of a school, like the yellow pentagon sign, without mentioning the speed, since it is irrelevant.  [It seems the yellow pentagon sign is there, so the school speed limit should be removed.]

In my area, this is how it's done in areas where the main road is 25 all times (and no corresponding reduction is necessary since school zones are default at 25).

Aren't there additional restrictions when driving in a school zone?  Not to mention higher fines from traffic violations.  These zones are not delineated by yellow pentagons.

[cjk374]

VA-168 Business (Battlefield Blvd) in Chesapeake, north of the Hickory area, has an advisory speed of 45 mph around this curve, though the speed limit is already 45 mph.

It's redundant now, though it's a left over from when the speed limit was 50 mph, and was never removed. The speed limit was dropped to 45 mph in order to attempt to deter drivers from avoiding tolls on the Chesapeake Expressway (VA-168 Mainline). The speed limit is only 55 mph on the rural freeway (and it was also 55 mph on VA-168 Business south of Hickory, until lowered to 45 mph) and lowering the speed on VA-168 Business hasn't done anything in changing people's decisions. Until they raise the Expressway to 65 mph, which is a reasonable speed given the design of the freeway, and the rural environment, few people are likely to be "deterred" due to speed limits. Hardly anybody follows the 55 mph limit today as it is on the toll road.

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.

[sprjus4]

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.

From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.

[mrsman]

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.

From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.

I think the highway departments assume (in many cases correctly) that there is probably significant speeding on the straight sections.  The warning of the curves is to let people know to slow down for their own safety.

I don't think of it as redundant at all.

[sprjus4]

Everytime I have been in a speed zone under 55 mph, the curve advisory speed matches the speed limit unless the curve is sharper than the speed zone limit.

From my experience, usually an advisory speed is not posted unless the curve is requires a slower speed. In this case, the speed limit is 45 mph, and the curve is 45 mph, so the curve advisory signage should not have an advisory speed displayed. Simply an arrow and that's all.

A similar situation exists on a nearby road where a 45 mph advisory speed is posted on a 45 mph speed zone. In the past, the speed limit was 55 mph, and the curve required slowing to 45 mph. Now that the speed limit has been lowered to 45 mph, the sign is redundant.

On another road nearby, the speed limit has always been 45 mph, and there's a 45 mph curve that does not have any advisory speed posted, simply just an arrow. That's because you can take the curve at the speed limit with no issues. If you're exceeding the speed limit, that's your own issue.

I think the highway departments assume (in many cases correctly) that there is probably significant speeding on the straight sections.  The warning of the curves is to let people know to slow down for their own safety.

I don't think of it as redundant at all.

Well the thing is, you only see the advisory speed being the speed limit in this area if it was a left over from a higher speed limit.

There's plenty of other places in the area that otherwise have simply an arrow.

What's interesting is that 45 mph advisory speed in the 45 mph zone is easily driveable at 50 mph - it's not even a sharp curve.

[webny99]

I simply see advisory speeds as a reminder of the speed limit in the context of the upcoming curves.

[jemacedo9]

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.

[kphoger]

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.

I'd rather do things in that order than the opposite, wherein someone could have a speed-related crash due to missing advisory plaques after the speed limit increase.

[jemacedo9]

PA had the opposite for a short while...in prep of raising speed limits to 70, there were some places where new curve signs were posted with 65 MPH advisories, while the freeway was still marked at 65 and before the announcement was made.

I'd rather do things in that order than the opposite, wherein someone could have a speed-related crash due to missing advisory plaques after the speed limit increase.

Completely agree.  And it was a nice clue that 70 MPH was coming, even before it was announced...

[Eth]

On westbound OK 32 entering Marietta:

[kendancy66]

This is a case where the signage appears redundant, but is in fact not.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNDkU4yy7QksrYrj9

The sign on the left is for the main road, and the one on the right is for the on ramp which passes over the exit in a braided ramp setup

[TEG24601]

I've posted the equivalent of this with US highways before, but this was the first I'd ever seen it with a state route:



Taken in Stansbury Park, Utah.

That is, in my opinion, only partially redundant.  I say that because while the road may be signed as State Road/Route 138, it is possible for the road to have a separate name.  A bit like how in Washington, SR 99 has several legal street names: Everett Mall Way, Evergreen Way, HWY 99, Aurora Ave, East Marginal Way, etc.  With a few exceptions over its length, Businesses are identified by their address on the legal street name, not the route number.  However, other State Routes in Washington, have huge sections without another name, so addresses are based on mileage and the route number; for example 14888 SR 525.  So this sign may be useful, especially if the route goes from having a street name attached, to not, and there are redundant addresses in close proximity.

[sprjus4]

I've posted the equivalent of this with US highways before, but this was the first I'd ever seen it with a state route:

Taken in Stansbury Park, Utah.

That is, in my opinion, only partially redundant.  I say that because while the road may be signed as State Road/Route 138, it is possible for the road to have a separate name.  A bit like how in Washington, SR 99 has several legal street names: Everett Mall Way, Evergreen Way, HWY 99, Aurora Ave, East Marginal Way, etc.  With a few exceptions over its length, Businesses are identified by their address on the legal street name, not the route number.  However, other State Routes in Washington, have huge sections without another name, so addresses are based on mileage and the route number; for example 14888 SR 525.  So this sign may be useful, especially if the route goes from having a street name attached, to not, and there are redundant addresses in close proximity.

Reminds of the surface road named IH-37 in Corpus Christi, TX 

https://www.google.com/maps/@27.8022088,-97.3915269,3a,37.5y,349.46h,90.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP7Y3QeRWQXEIAhYRzrTjAQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1

In reality, it's to have "continuity" as while I-37 ends a few blocks to the west, the road continues as a surface road to Shoreline Blvd.

[jeffandnicole]

This is a case where the signage appears redundant, but is in fact not.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNDkU4yy7QksrYrj9

The sign on the left is for the main road, and the one on the right is for the on ramp which passes over the exit in a braided ramp setup

This is how the NJ Turnpike works for the dual-dual setup.  Both roadways have exits for the same interchange.

[sprjus4]

^ Similar situation here, caused by braided ramps.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7764454,-76.2496177,3a,75y,45.48h,92.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scyJctPdxaTJ6UR9vVdDDNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[webny99]

Redundancy is IMO a good thing... as long as it's consistent redundancy, and not being used to show off a variety of ugly fonts and route shield designs! 

[PHLBOS]

This is a case where the signage appears redundant, but is in fact not.

https://goo.gl/maps/MNDkU4yy7QksrYrj9

The sign on the left is for the main road, and the one on the right is for the on ramp which passes over the exit in a braided ramp setup

This is how the NJ Turnpike works for the dual-dual setup.  Both roadways have exits for the same interchange.

A similar example in MA; although the road on the right acts more like a collector-distributor ramp at this interchange.

[ErmineNotyours]

Seen in Washington DC this week:





I've always liked the dual Bellevue Way signs on I-90, though they're getting harder to see with the trees.

[Michael]

Here's yet another example on I-690 in Syracuse that looks redundant but actually isn't.  I always wondered why there's a separate sign on the left instead of a single sign with three arrows, but then one day I realized that because of the short barrier between the ramp and mainline, it's still technically "on" the ramp.

[CtrlAltDel]

Here's yet another example on I-690 in Syracuse that looks redundant but actually isn't.  I always wondered why there's a separate sign on the left instead of a single sign with three arrows, but then one day I realized that because of the short barrier between the ramp and mainline, it's still technically "on" the ramp.

It's certainly better than this nonredundant sign in a similar context on I-294 in Illinois.