Control Cities

[hbelkins]

I never understood Jamestown as a control city on I-86. It's not that big of a place and is not an important intersection.

I'd use Corning, Binghamton, Middletown, and NYC eastbound; Middletown, Binghamton, Corning, and Erie westbound.

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

While MnDOT's practice of using tiny cities at rural interstate interchanges is dumb as it is, it's even more stupid when the city in question isn't even featured on freeway BGSs.

For example, at the Lewiston interchange, you see "I-90 West - Austin" when you turn onto the freeway. You get on the freeway and are greeted with this mileage sign:

St. Charles          9
Rochester Exit   23
Albert Lea         81

[kphoger]

I never understood Jamestown as a control city on I-86. It's not that big of a place and is not an important intersection.

I'd use Corning, Binghamton, Middletown, and NYC eastbound; Middletown, Binghamton, Corning, and Erie westbound.

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

Because – *gasp* – control cities are about navigation, not about population.

[TXtoNJ]

If I'm leaving Denver heading east on I-70, where's the best place within the next 200 or so miles to stop for food/gas/hotel?

Seems that’s what secondary control cities are for.

Also, as previously noted, 70 across the plains is sparse, but it’s not like 70 in Utah. You’re never going more than 50 miles or so without passing a McDonald’s or much than 20 without a gas station. Chain motels at Byars, Limon, Stratton, Burlington, Goodland, Colby, Oakley, and on down the line.

You bring up a good point - it's why I've long thought we should take a page from Germany and sign two or three control cities, the first being oriented to navigation, the second the next major (PSA 500k+) city in that direction.

[webny99]

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

Because – *gasp* – control cities are about navigation, not about population.

I'd be OK with co-signing Jamestown and Corning between Erie and Jamestown.

I know Jamestown isn't at an interstate junction, but I maintain that it is strange to skip over it in favor of a much smaller city just because it's near a junction with an incomplete future interstate that isn't really relevant to most travelers heading in that direction to begin with.

[jaehak]

If I'm leaving Denver heading east on I-70, where's the best place within the next 200 or so miles to stop for food/gas/hotel?

Seems that's what secondary control cities are for.

Also, as previously noted, 70 across the plains is sparse, but it's not like 70 in Utah. You're never going more than 50 miles or so without passing a McDonald's or much than 20 without a gas station. Chain motels at Byars, Limon, Stratton, Burlington, Goodland, Colby, Oakley, and on down the line.

Longest gap between McDonald's on I-70 in the plains is between Colby and Hays - 109 miles. 
Longest gap between McDonald's west of Denver is between Fruita and Richfield - 213 miles.

Apropos of nothing, of course; I was just curious.

Chris

That would make for a good thread. Longest distance on a given road between McDonalds'. That Fruita-Richfield gap has got to be the favorite for longest in the country.

[JayhawkCO]

At least continental U.S. interstates.  Start the thread.  I can nerd out on pointless things all day.

Chris

[kphoger]

That would make for a good thread. Longest distance on a given road between McDonalds'. That Fruita-Richfield gap has got to be the favorite for longest in the country.

Even I-10 in Texas doesn't quite match it:  199 miles between Fort Stockton and Junction.

[JayhawkCO]

Longest in the continental U.S. I've found is 285 miles on US6 from Bishop, CA to Ely, NC.  There used to be one in Tonopah, NV but it closed.

2nd longest - 258 miles on US50 from Fallon, NV to Ely, NV.

Longest interstate span without a McDonald's: I-A1 from Palmer to the Canadian Border - 365 miles

Longest interstate span specifically between two McDonald's: I-A3 between Wasilla, AK and Fairbanks, AK - 314 miles

Longest state highway without McDonald's: AK11 (Dalton Highway) - 414 miles

Honorable mention for state routes: CO59 is 173.30 miles long and has no McDonald's in any of the cities it visits.

Rabbit hole concluded.

Chris

[kphoger]

continental U.S. interstates.

US6
US50
I-A1
I-A3
AK11
CO59

Rabbit hole concluded.

But you didn't answer your own challenge.

[JayhawkCO]

continental U.S. interstates.

US6
US50
I-A1
I-A3
AK11
CO59

Rabbit hole concluded.

But you didn't answer your own challenge.

Pretty certain that I-70 in Utah/Colorado wins for continental interstates.  You already checked I-10 in Texas.  I glanced at I-80 in Nevada.  Neither qualify.  I figured I'd investigate other types of roads.

Edit - Close but no cigar is I-90 from Chamberlain, SD to Rapid City - 209 miles and I-94 from Miles City, MT to Dickinson, ND - 174 miles.

Chris

[bassoon1986]

That would make for a good thread. Longest distance on a given road between McDonalds'. That Fruita-Richfield gap has got to be the favorite for longest in the country.

Even I-10 in Texas doesn't quite match it:  199 miles between Fort Stockton and Junction.

Haha I just looked up that stretch, too.


iPhone

[machias]

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

Because – *gasp* – control cities are about navigation, not about population.

I'd be OK with co-signing Jamestown and Corning between Erie and Jamestown.

I know Jamestown isn't at an interstate junction, but I maintain that it is strange to skip over it in favor of a much smaller city just because it's near a junction with an incomplete future interstate that isn't really relevant to most travelers heading in that direction to begin with.

I've always wondered why the exit for I-86 from I-90 in PA only lists "Jamestown" as a control city. It should list Jamestown and Binghamton or even Jamestown and New York (City). I wonder if the Thruway Authority asked PennDOT not to post any mention of New York City to encourage motorists to not shortcut across the Southern Tier and instead of the NYS Thruway.

[Roadgeekteen]

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

Because – *gasp* – control cities are about navigation, not about population.

I'd be OK with co-signing Jamestown and Corning between Erie and Jamestown.

I know Jamestown isn't at an interstate junction, but I maintain that it is strange to skip over it in favor of a much smaller city just because it's near a junction with an incomplete future interstate that isn't really relevant to most travelers heading in that direction to begin with.

I've always wondered why the exit for I-86 from I-90 in PA only lists "Jamestown" as a control city. It should list Jamestown and Binghamton or even Jamestown and New York (City). I wonder if the Thruway Authority asked PennDOT not to post any mention of New York City to encourage motorists to not shortcut across the Southern Tier and instead of the NYS Thruway.

Why would PennDot care about what the thruway authority thinks? Also, anyone with a map or GPS would know not to take the Thruway.

[roadman65]

This is a new one.
https://goo.gl/maps/D6QBCxLWZC7hxKWK8
Montclair now instead of the usual Butler and Newark for NJ 23 southbound in Sussex County.

[Flint1979]

I never understood Jamestown as a control city on I-86. It's not that big of a place and is not an important intersection.

I'd use Corning, Binghamton, Middletown, and NYC eastbound; Middletown, Binghamton, Corning, and Erie westbound.

For I-86 eastbound, it would be kind of strange to skip over Jamestown in favor of Corning. Jamestown is not a big city by any means, but it is nearly three times larger than Corning.

Not really. There are no major intersections or decision points at Jamestown. Corning has the interchange with I-99 south and what should be I-99 north.

Because – *gasp* – control cities are about navigation, not about population.

Exactly

[Flint1979]

Longest distance between a McDonald's in Michigan is probably in the U.P. somewhere. For an Interstate I'd say it's along I-75 and I'm assuming I-75 because the other Interstate's in the state are in the more populated parts of the state and there would be a McDonald's at almost every exit.

[webny99]

I'd be OK with co-signing Jamestown and Corning between Erie and Jamestown.

I know Jamestown isn't at an interstate junction, but I maintain that it is strange to skip over it in favor of a much smaller city just because it's near a junction with an incomplete future interstate that isn't really relevant to most travelers heading in that direction to begin with.

I've always wondered why the exit for I-86 from I-90 in PA only lists "Jamestown" as a control city. It should list Jamestown and Binghamton or even Jamestown and New York (City). I wonder if the Thruway Authority asked PennDOT not to post any mention of New York City to encourage motorists to not shortcut across the Southern Tier and instead of the NYS Thruway.

Why would PennDot care about what the thruway authority thinks? Also, anyone with a map or GPS would know not to take the Thruway.

Corning or maybe Binghamton I can see, but not New York City.

NYC is over 400 miles away even via I-86, and even though it appears on Thruway mileage signs starting from the PA line, it isn't an actual Thruway control city until Albany. Also, I-86 isn't even the fastest route from Erie to NYC: I-79 to I-80 is about 15-20 minutes faster than taking I-86 to Binghamton, and taking I-86/NY 17 all the way to I-87 adds even more time.

[hobsini2]

Starting in Sault Ste. Marie and this is off the top of my head because I have traveled I-75 so much in my life.

Mackinac Bridge
Saginaw
Flint
Detroit
Toledo
Dayton
Cincinnati
Lexington
Knoxville
Chattanooga
Atlanta
Macon
Valdosta
Lake City
Tampa
Naples
Miami

I am a bit more liberal in my choices for I-75.
Sault Ste Marie
Mackinac Bridge (totally agree)
Grayling (secondary)
Lansing (SB as a secondary to US 127)
Saginaw (secondary)
Flint
Detroit
Toledo
Columbus (SB as a secondary to US 23)
Lima (secondary)
Dayton
Cincinnati
Louisville (SB with I-71)
Lexington
London (secondary)
Knoxville
Nashville (SB with I-40)
Chattanooga
Marietta (NB secondary)
Greenville (NB with I-85)
Atlanta
Montgomery (SB with I-85)
Macon
Valdosta (secondary)
Lake City (secondary)
Gainesville (NB primary/SB secondary)
Ocala (secondary)
Orlando (SB secondary to FL Tpk)
Tampa
Sarasota (secondary)
Ft Myers (secondary)
Naples (secondary)
Ft Lauderdale (SB secondary)
Miami

[hobsini2]

Flint is right: the pure size of a city doesn't have anything to with whether or not it should be a control city on a given route. However, the size of a city, in most cases, has everything to do with the factors that are important for control cities. Limon punches above its size, sure, but it is completely irrelevant compared to the state of Kansas, Kansas City, and a host of other cities along I-70's route between Denver and KC. Even Denver International Airport has more people coming in and out of it by car. It has more highways, more hotels, more restaurants, more everything. East of E-470 I can at least understand the debate for Limon, though it would still be my 5th choice.

I just don't see the need to use an airport as a control city.  The little airplane icon on the exits (which are plentiful in the metro area) to get you to the airport is plenty.

Chris

Some cities are better at this than others. But I digress.

[hobsini2]

But are control cities decided with out-of-state drivers, unfamiliar with the area, in mind either?  Or are they decided with local/regional drivers in mind?

Since control cities are selected by the state's DOT I would assume that they are decided with local/regional drivers in mind.

I guess it depends on the state then? Like control cities on Ohio's interstates are more "obvious" than those on New Mexico's interstates, even to the locals in each respective state.

Speaking of NM, for some reason, I'm fine with Gallup as a control city despite its size, because of the Route 66 song.

Ohio's are fine the way they are I think except for NYC in the Youngstown area I think Mercer should have been used since that is what PennDOT uses at the state line.

Michigan's are all what you would expect for the most part. I think signing Port Huron on I-696 is kind of lame, it should be Roseville or Warren or St. Clair Shores. Warren is the third largest city in the state (unless Sterling Heights has passed it in which case it would be fourth) and I-696 goes right through it.

But there again, in Warren's case, it is part of a larger metro area despite it being 3rd or 4th largest. By that logic, here, Naperville (I-88) and Elgin (I-90) should be control cities. Port Huron makes a ton of sense for those heading toward Toronto (in non pandemic times).

[hobsini2]

In the same general part of the country . . .

I-80, between North Platte (NE) and Cheyenne (WY) . . .

Is everyone fine with Sidney being the control city?

Personally, I would use Ogallala since it is the last town of consequence before the I-76 split.  But Sidney is fine.

[Roadgeekteen]

What about neither? Just sign North Platte and Cheyenne.

[TravelingBethelite]

If I'm leaving Denver heading east on I-70, where's the best place within the next 200 or so miles to stop for food/gas/hotel?

Seems that's what secondary control cities are for.

Also, as previously noted, 70 across the plains is sparse, but it's not like 70 in Utah. You're never going more than 50 miles or so without passing a McDonald's or much than 20 without a gas station. Chain motels at Byars, Limon, Stratton, Burlington, Goodland, Colby, Oakley, and on down the line.

Just thought I'd chime in about the "chain motel" - there's one - in Byers. Stayed there on my last trip! Wouldn't hardly call it a chain motel save for the sign. They have a much larger, cooler neon sign for highway travelers with its original name: Longhorn Motel. But I digress.

[achilles765]

Ok, changing the subject with what I suspect will be a very unpopular opinion. I think Temple should be a control city on I-35 in Texas. Its metro area has a population of 450k (btw, its core population is around 78k, about 10 times that of Limon) and it now has an interstate junction.

As a secondary one, sure. I still think Dallas (or Ft Worth) and Austin should be the only primaries in that segment, and Waco and Temple can be used as secondaries (minor interchanges).

Agree. Austin and the Metroplex are massive and not that far apart. Waco should be downgraded to secondary, and everything else between ATX and DFW should stay secondary (for now, if one of them blows up like Austin in the future than upgrade control city status then)

Waco and Temple/Kileen are pretty large cities that are growing...maybe secondary is good enough for now...
so the control city list maybe should be something like

Interstate 35 North:
Laredo
San Antonio
Austin
Killeen/Waco/Dallas-Ft. Worth
Dallas-Ft. Worth
Interstate 35 E--Dallas
Interstate 35W-- Ft Worth
Denton
Ok City