New Jersey

[roadman65]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

[famartin]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

In fairness, there are places where NJ does likewise (Some examples which come to mind include I-78 beyond Exit 3 and the former I-95 southbound between old Exit 7 and old Exit 1).

[PHLBOS]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

Edits below in bold blue:
In fairness, there are places where NJ does likewise (Some examples which come to mind include I-78 beyond Exit 3 and the former I-95 southbound between old Exit 7 and old Exit 1).

Actually, NJDOT changed all several of those Pennsylvania or Penna listings on those then-I-95 southbound signs to either Philadelphia or even Phila. well over 15(?) years ago.  Signage along NJ 29 was one of the last remaining place locations where Pennsylvania was used for then-I-95 southbound ramp signage; but such has also since changed to Philadelphia during the recent interchange reconfiguration project.  Today, as I-295 northbound, most of the pull-through signs up to Exit 73 (old Exit 3) don't list any city/state/destination at all.  Any ramp signs that list such; only list Philadelphia with a TO SOUTH 95 legend above it.

[famartin]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

In fairness, there are places where NJ does likewise (Some examples which come to mind include I-78 beyond Exit 3 and the former I-95 southbound between old Exit 7 and old Exit 1).

Actually, NJDOT changed all those Pennsylvania or Penna listings on those then-I-95 southbound signs to either Philadelphia or even Phila. well over 15(?) years ago.  Signage along NJ 29 was the last remaining place where Pennsylvania was used for then-I-95 southbound ramp signage; but such has also since changed to Philadelphia during the recent interchange reconfiguration project.  Today, as I-295 northbound, most of the pull-through signs up to Exit 73 (old Exit 3) don't list any city/state/destination at all.  Any ramp signs that list such; only list Philadelphia with a TO SOUTH 95 legend above it.

Fake news

[roadman65]

Good for NJ.  Too bad New York does have the same name for the city and the state as its hard to use the state name for New York because of its largest city.  Hence New York City irks me as they were the biggest ones to use "New Jersey" as a control city.

[vdeane]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

I-278 uses Elizabeth.  NY 440 and the Korean War Veterans Parkway could probably use Perth Amboy and Bayonne.  I-95 has at least one sign for Newark.

[storm2k]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

I-278 uses Elizabeth.  NY 440 and the Korean War Veterans Parkway could probably use Perth Amboy and Bayonne.  I-95 has at least one sign for Newark.

I've seen both Newark and Trenton for ramps to the Cross Bronx/Trans Manhattan, depending on where they are and their age. Newer signs use Newark to match what the Turnpike Authority is doing on the northern end of 95 and the Turnpike itself.

I thought I've seen 440 using Perth Amboy in a few replacements. It is definitely what the West Shore Expwy should be using, which matches what NJDOT does for 440 in NJ.

[roadman65]

That was done rather recently and when I say recently post 2000.  When you get above 40 the decades seem like years and years months and weeks days.

Staten Island began recognizing Perth Amboy and Jersey City at the same time but then went back to the two bridge names Outerbridge Crossing and Bayonne Bridge on those signs that were on NY 440 for a short while.

[PHLBOS]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

In fairness, there are places where NJ does likewise (Some examples which come to mind include I-78 beyond Exit 3 and the former I-95 southbound between old Exit 7 and old Exit 1).

Actually, NJDOT changed all several of those Pennsylvania or Penna listings on those then-I-95 southbound signs to either Philadelphia or even Phila. well over 15(?) years ago.  Signage along NJ 29 was one of the last remaining place locations where Pennsylvania was used for then-I-95 southbound ramp signage; but such has also since changed to Philadelphia during the recent interchange reconfiguration project.  Today, as I-295 northbound, most of the pull-through signs up to Exit 73 (old Exit 3) don't list any city/state/destination at all.  Any ramp signs that list such; only list Philadelphia with a TO SOUTH 95 legend above it.

Fake news

I have since edited my earlier-post per the above.  While I appreciate the corrected information, thank you; I can very well do without the earlier Fake news comment.  Especially since several (but not all) of the signs were indeed changed.

Here's a listing of some of those signs that listed Philadelphia for years but their predecessor signs listed Pennsylvania (pre-GSV).
US 1 South at interchange circa Aug. 2009

I-295 northbound approaching US 1 circa Sept. 2008

Scotch Rd. southbound approaching interchange circa Aug. 2013
Aug. 2009 GSV shows the same exact sign but the image is too blurry.

[Alps]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

Morristown.

[famartin]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

In fairness, there are places where NJ does likewise (Some examples which come to mind include I-78 beyond Exit 3 and the former I-95 southbound between old Exit 7 and old Exit 1).

Actually, NJDOT changed all several of those Pennsylvania or Penna listings on those then-I-95 southbound signs to either Philadelphia or even Phila. well over 15(?) years ago.  Signage along NJ 29 was one of the last remaining place locations where Pennsylvania was used for then-I-95 southbound ramp signage; but such has also since changed to Philadelphia during the recent interchange reconfiguration project.  Today, as I-295 northbound, most of the pull-through signs up to Exit 73 (old Exit 3) don't list any city/state/destination at all.  Any ramp signs that list such; only list Philadelphia with a TO SOUTH 95 legend above it.

Fake news

I have since edited my earlier-post per the above.  While I appreciate the corrected information, thank you; I can very well do without the earlier Fake news comment.  Especially since several (but not all) of the signs were indeed changed.

Here's a listing of some of those signs that listed Philadelphia for years but their predecessor signs listed Pennsylvania (pre-GSV).
US 1 South at interchange circa Aug. 2009

I-295 northbound approaching US 1 circa Sept. 2008

Scotch Rd. southbound approaching interchange circa Aug. 2013
Aug. 2009 GSV shows the same exact sign but the image is too blurry.

[roadman65]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

Morristown.

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

I-278 uses Elizabeth.  NY 440 and the Korean War Veterans Parkway could probably use Perth Amboy and Bayonne.  I-95 has at least one sign for Newark.

No one ever heard of Fort Chiswell in VA, but NCDOT uses it as NB I-77 control city north of Statesville.

Control cities are to be used not because they are familiar with to motorists as much as it satisfies a destination.  If one is available it is great, and Morristown is somewhat a place of familiarity to an extent.  Plus its near I-80 and makes a good place.

Now Exit 14A on the Thruway should use Newark being the Parkway heads there.  Exit 13 at the PIP now, that is more complicated as New York is the first major city SB, but the straight through Thruway goes there as well.  Fort Lee could work, and even New York (look at MD at the BW Parkway and I-95/495 signs in MD) where two roads both use the same control cities for each other and it works out.   Baltimore is used on the BW Parkway for I-95 N Bound while I-95 N Bound also uses Baltimore for the BW Parkway as both routes go there equally.

[PHLBOS]

FWIW, here's a vintage 1993 photo of the original/old button-copy BEGIN 95 SOUTH Pennsylvania sign that was replaced by the time this fore-mentioned Sept. 2008 GSV along I-295 northbound was taken:


Needless to say, your earlier-posted examples were changed nearly a year ago when this stretch of I-95 became I-295.
Current signage along NJ 31 northbound approaching I-295 interchange

Current signage along I-295 northbound approaching Exits 71A-B*
*Prior to the 1993 shifting of the I-95/295 hand-off location from the would-be Somerset Freeway interchange location to the US 1 interchange; the new interchange numbers are actually the original numbers.

I.e. there are presently no longer any known signs that list Pennsylvania as a southbound I-95 control destination.

[akotchi]

No signs on the mainline, that is . . .

There are still a couple of small signs at a couple of the interchange crossroads.  One on northbound Princeton Pike; two on southbound U.S. 206, that I am aware of.  There may be others at interchange crossroads closer to the Scudder Falls Bridge that I have not passed by lately.

[Beltway]

No one ever heard of Fort Chiswell in VA, but NCDOT uses it as NB I-77 control city north of Statesville.

It is well enough known in Virginia, being the closest town to the easterly I-81/I-77 interchange.

[PHLBOS]

No signs on the mainline, that is . . .

There are still a couple of small signs at a couple of the interchange crossroads.  One on northbound Princeton Pike; two on southbound U.S. 206, that I am aware of.  There may be others at interchange crossroads closer to the Scudder Falls Bridge that I have not passed by lately.

Thanks for the info.

Surprisingly, the one along southbound US 206 was still there as of Aug. 2018... after the conversion to I-295.  Given its location, it's very easy to see why NJDOT overlooked removing/revising it.  Then again, since that advance LGS has no supporting trailblazer signage near it; it's not really unorthodox with respect to MUTCD and the information is still correct/accurate.  The LGS at the ramp itself was indeed taken down and replaced with just I-295 trailblazer signage.

The GSV showing the signage along northbound Princeton Pike is from Aug. 2017... just prior to the change from I-95 to I-295.  Given the location of this LGS, it was either revised or removed a year later.

That's right, it's approaching the one-year anniversary of NJDOT converting their old stretch of I-95 to I-295.

At other interchange ramp locations w/LGS panels; such were simply taken down and replaced with just I-295 trailblazer signs.

[roadman65]

NJ always for some reason never gave destinations nor interstates originally.  They never had those LGS like on US and state routes.  Even NJ 18 got LGS at ramps for New Brunswick going WB, and either Asbury Park, Shore Points (US 9 and I think CR 520), Point Pleasant, and Tinton Falls from NJ 34 because for years the freeway had a gap from Wayside Road to Deal Road so the freeway ended there before the Parkway in Tinton Falls after opening from NJ 34 southward.   That is also why Point Pleasant is and always was the control city for NJ 34 SB at Colts Neck as the second segment of Route 18 ended there for a period so it trailblazed Point Pleasant from the ramps at NJ 79 and CR 537.

[Roadwarriors79]

As far as PA, NY and DE using "New Jersey" as a control city, I think I would rather have the state be acknowledged than be skipped altogether, like most of the I-95 NB signage north of Philadelphia.

[PHLBOS]

Just change the term control city in the next MUTCD update to either control destination or control point, and "the listing of such-and-such isn't an actual city or municipality" issue goes completely away.

[Alps]

As far as PA, NY and DE using "New Jersey" as a control city, I think I would rather have the state be acknowledged than be skipped altogether, like most of the I-95 NB signage north of Philadelphia.

PA hates listing destinations in other states. To get back at them, OH skips over them on I-80 and NJ signs Del Water Gap or just Penna. You reap what you sow.

[famartin]

As far as PA, NY and DE using "New Jersey" as a control city, I think I would rather have the state be acknowledged than be skipped altogether, like most of the I-95 NB signage north of Philadelphia.

PA hates listing destinations in other states. To get back at them, OH skips over them on I-80 and NJ signs Del Water Gap or just Penna. You reap what you sow.

This might explain why MSHA/MDTA ignores Philadelphia on I-95.

[roadman65]

Then Pennsylvania on the Exit 3 I-78 pull through also.

[mrsman]

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

Morristown.

Some pull throughs mention both Del Water Gap and Stroudsburg, Pa.   Its better than PennDOT using New Jersey in East Stroudsburg, as NY and PA love to consider the Garden State a city.

To be fair to NY, what would use use for Thruway exit 15?  I-287 doesn't go to Newark, and most people in NY wouldn't be terribly familiar with NJ's towns.  It also emphasizes that there is NO access to NY from exit 15; you go straight from the exit ramp to crossing the state line.

I-278 uses Elizabeth.  NY 440 and the Korean War Veterans Parkway could probably use Perth Amboy and Bayonne.  I-95 has at least one sign for Newark.

No one ever heard of Fort Chiswell in VA, but NCDOT uses it as NB I-77 control city north of Statesville.

Control cities are to be used not because they are familiar with to motorists as much as it satisfies a destination.  If one is available it is great, and Morristown is somewhat a place of familiarity to an extent.  Plus its near I-80 and makes a good place.

Now Exit 14A on the Thruway should use Newark being the Parkway heads there.  Exit 13 at the PIP now, that is more complicated as New York is the first major city SB, but the straight through Thruway goes there as well.  Fort Lee could work, and even New York (look at MD at the BW Parkway and I-95/495 signs in MD) where two roads both use the same control cities for each other and it works out.   Baltimore is used on the BW Parkway for I-95 N Bound while I-95 N Bound also uses Baltimore for the BW Parkway as both routes go there equally.

I've always been in favor of listing two control cities (to the extent possible) when there are two routes that go to the same place.

Ex.: I-5 and CA-170 juntion in Los Angeles area.  Both routes lead to Downtown L.A., Yet only I-5 is signed to L.A. and 170 to Hollywood.  My preference: I-5: Burbank, Los Angeles; 170: Hollywood, Los Angeles. This shows that both routes go to L.A., but go through different cities to get there.

With the example of Thruway/PIP, this would lead to:  PIP: Fort Lee NJ, New York City.  Thruway:  Yonkers*, New York City.

Then again, even though the PIP does lead to the GWB which of course goes to NYC, I don't think that any highway authority wants to encourage more traffic on this routing.  Traffic north of the Tappan Zee (whether on the thruway or on PIP) should use the TZ if they are going to NYC and not use the PIP to GWB (or Lincoln or Holland).  Since the Thruway is a far better routing, the PIP is not, we should only put NYC as the control for the Thurway and Fort Lee as teh control for PIP.


*This could be replaced with White Plains to give a shoutout to the control city for 287 after the 87/287 split in Westchester County.  While 87 itself doesn't hit WP, it does come close enough at least from the perseprctive of the PIP/Thwy interchange to let you know that if you want to go through Wetschester County take the Thruway.

[bzakharin]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

[Alps]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

It's never appropriate because states are not to be used as control cities. Also, you could always continue on another route and find an alternate crossing. NJ's not THAT small.