Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[yakra]

WARNING: This post is seriously nerdy.

I've posted in other forums about the mysterious end of US202 in Bangor.
Last we left off:
* AASHTO's route log has it ending at US1A (while multiplexed with I-395) - falling short of its parent route.
* Signage in the field has 202 leaving I-395 and going downtown, and is fully present at US2.
* As far as what MDOT has to say on paper, the latest state route log is a little vague: "Int of RAMP OFF TO US-202, RAM, Bangor". They have the mileage as 168.52 mi.

These facts have not changed. Route logs were made public courtesy Floodgap Roadgap's RoadsAroundME - presently there's no newer version available.

Since Mapquest reports driving distance mileage to two decimal places, I used it to calculate, from the NH line...
168.25 miles to I-395
168.94 miles to US1A
170.43 miles to US2
suggesting a terminus ambiguously between I-395 exits 2 and 3.
Heck, I suppose even the US2 option could be within MapQuest's margin of error? Anyway...

What other official source is available to resolve this?
The MEDOTPUBRDS.SHP file.

A few things to note about how the data is laid out:

Every line segment in the file has a PRIM_RTE attribute, listing the, well, primary route number. Thus, each segment of road has one and only one route number associated. The assigned number is the smallest route number in the highest level of route: Interstate trumps US trumps state. I-295 > US1; US202 > ME3.

PRIM_RTE follows routes around ramps at interchanges. For example, Route 15 is shown on I-395 E -> I-95 N ramp, and the I-95 S -> I-395 W ramp, as well as ramps to/from surface streets.

With a few excusable exceptions, when a route ends at a trumpet interchange, the PRIM_RTE ends at either the center of the interchange via the thru road or at the trumpet's 4-ramp split, and doesn't follow ramps.

Phew. Okay. That all said:
In the MEDOTPUBRDS.SHP dated 2007-10-19,
at I-395 exit 2: 202 follows thru road, ending at interchange center. Ramps forming signed 202 E & W are PRIM_RTE 19A0315 and 19C0315 respectively.
at I-395 exit 3: No sign of 202; ramps forming signed 202 E & W are PRIM_RTE 19F0327 and 19K0327 respectively.
In the MEDOTPUBRDS.SHP dated 2009-10-19, ramps are now PRIM_RTE 0202X and 0202S at both exits.
Eh? Eh? How `bout that eh?
The rest of the route to US2 is hidden in the PRIM_RTE field by US1A and a secret, unsigned 1C (US1A Business)

So, it looks like someone at the DOT had their eye out for this sort of thing, and made the changes. After 202 was silently cut back (in the 80s?) it was just as quietly restored. I guess it comes from a rather dysfunctional US Route family, its parents being split up n all... maybe the western US2 had custody for a while?

It'll be interesting to see whether the next revision of the MDOT route log adjusts 202's mileage upwards by ~2 mi. Or, once AASHTO get their next revision out, whether it'll include routing to US2,

[froggie]

I don't recall seeing any US 202 signage in downtown Bangor when we were there this summer.  From what I saw, US 202 heads north from I-395 and that's the last you see of it.

[Alps]

Froggie's right on the field signage, though if US 202 does not extend beyond US 1A, then there is no route at all that continues straight to US 2.  I have been under the impression that 202 does end at US 2.  Also consider, like the NJDOT Straight Line Diagrams, the Maine shapefiles are far from perfect, and the lack of 202 designations on the ramps may just have been oversight on their part.

[Dougtone]

Froggie's right on the field signage, though if US 202 does not extend beyond US 1A, then there is no route at all that continues straight to US 2.  I have been under the impression that 202 does end at US 2.  Also consider, like the NJDOT Straight Line Diagrams, the Maine shapefiles are far from perfect, and the lack of 202 designations on the ramps may just have been oversight on their part.

During C.C. Slater and my now infamous 27 Hours of Maine trip in June 2005, we did travel to US 202's end in Bangor.  At the time, US 202 was signed at US 2.  While it is possible that the signage was removed since then, it appears that US 202 had ended at US 1A [Edit] in recent years, at least as it was signed in the field.  

For your viewing pleasure...

US 202 in Maine...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dougtone/sets/72157622807547514/

Bangor photos are about the 2nd or 3rd rows in.

[usends]

So, it looks like someone at the DOT had their eye out for this sort of thing, and made the changes. After 202 was silently cut back (in the 80s?) it was just as quietly restored.

Or, is it possible that MDOT never actually truncated US 202?  Could it be simply that their published information was inaccurate or incomplete?  I've always wondered why they would've truncated the US 202 designation, and yet leave all the signs up...

[yakra]

Froggie's mostly right on field signage - it's the last you see of 202 until the signage Doug mentioned at US2, and this doozie.
Field verified October or November 2007 (possibly more recently?), and no reason to believe signage has been removed.

if US 202 does not extend beyond US 1A, then there is no route at all that continues straight to US 2.

There is a route 1C - which is MDOT-speak for US1A Business. However, this is not signed in the field.

Or, is it possible that MDOT never actually truncated US 202?

They truncated it all right - enough to conspire with AASHTO to have it end at 1A. Also consider what recent route logs had to say. ("Ramp"?)
Also, I got it together enough to find out where 168.52 mi from NH gets us. Mapquest Schmapquest! The PRIM_EMP field was right there in the shapefile the whole time, giving the ending milepost on PRIM_RTE for any given segment. For 202 at 395, that figure is 168.51. That about clinches it. (Though intriguingly imprecise... rounding errors, perhaps?)

Also consider, like the NJDOT Straight Line Diagrams, the Maine shapefiles are far from perfect, and the lack of 202 designations on the ramps may just have been oversight on their part.

Hey now! Depends on how we define "far"! I find the shapefile to be pretty error-free in terms of route numbers and where they go. Sometimes, it agrees with field signage and disagrees with the route log (Route 214), or disagrees with field signage and agrees with the route log (25, 26, 196), but I've never seen the shapefile the odd one out with those other two elements agreeing.
With the mileage as provided in the route log matching 202's mileage arriving at I-395 in the shapefile, it appears this was intentional and not an oversight.

Could it be simply that their published information was inaccurate or incomplete?  I've always wondered why they would've truncated the US 202 designation, and yet leave all the signs up...

The latter, well, that's the $65536 question; I've had to wonder that myself. Maybe signs were gone for a while and then reappeared? Who knows...
As far as inaccurate info, well... the DOT documentation was pretty consistent in and of itself. As noted above, there are a few instances of field signage disagreeing with route logs, what's in the shapefile, or both. It should be noted that the wandering termini of routes 25, 26, 121, and 196 are all in Urban Compact municipalities, where state and state-aid highways are maintained by the municipality. So this could be indicative of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing between different levels of government - similar to the AASHTO vs MDOT situation. (Though that wouldn't explain the 202 signage on I-395's BGSs.)

As for the ME214 scenario, it could be that the route log definition has changed since the (2006?) revision as published on RAME, to be in line with what's in the field & shapefile. (Or short of that, maybe miscommunication between MDOT Region 4 and the central offices in Augusta? Who knows...)

If Cameron gets an updated route log to post to RAME, we may just see the mileage of US-202 get longer...

[yakra]

Aw, nuts! A little more analysis of the 2009 shapefile reveals a few things I missed:

Route 1C has disappeared. So, no more US1A business, even unsigned super-secret.

This means that now AlpsROADS is right: "there is no route at all that continues straight to US 2" from 1A - as the 202 designation has not appeared on the vacated 1C alignment -- the rest of Main St to US2 is simply inventory route 3201377.
So my title to this thread appears a little premature - 202 looks like it's still working its way along. It may get there yet!
Maddeningly, I don't have enough info to find out how far along 1A, if at all, 202 continues after coming off the ramps from 395.

As a consolation prize, Bangor does get a new business route, possibly also unsigned (No evidence last I was there in... when was it, 2007? (Although that *was* before this designation appeared...) Is this an excuse for a field trip?): Route 15B: mostly the old route of 15 thru town before it was moved onto I-95 & 395. This routing includes the State St bridge (Did the last surface route of 15 use the State St Bridge or Joshua Chamberlain?) and Center St in Brewer, which bypasses an at-grade rail crossing. This had previously been a variety of inventory routes, and segments of routes 1C and 9.

It should be noted that technically, the 'B' suffix denotes an Alternate route (see my "MDOT-speak" link upthread) whereas C denotes a business route. But there is another instance of a route with the internal 'B' suffix being signed in the field as a Business route: US1 Business in Damariscotta.

[Alps]

As a consolation prize, Bangor does get a new business route, possibly also unsigned (No evidence last I was there in... when was it, 2007? (Although that *was* before this designation appeared...) Is this an excuse for a field trip?): Route 15B: mostly the old route of 15 thru town before it was moved onto I-95 & 395. This routing includes the State St bridge (Did the last surface route of 15 use the State St Bridge or Joshua Chamberlain?) and Center St in Brewer, which bypasses an at-grade rail crossing. This had previously been a variety of inventory routes, and segments of routes 1C and 9.

Check my Maine pages, especially US 2.  Hint, hint.

[yakra]

Holy cow! This stuff is brand new. Maine just started using that reflective sheeting on signage within the past couple years.
Weird, it took several years after moving 15 onto I-(3)95 to get the business route established.
This means some last minute changes to Maine for the Clinched Highway Mapping project...

Good stuff on the route 11 page too...
Was this on that recentish trip when you got video of the one-lane bridge from Topsham to Brunswick?

[Alps]

Indeed it was - a good 90%-95% of my Maine photos are from that trip.  (Same with Michigan following the next update.)