Pedestrian signals that change even when no one is around to hit the button

[KCRoadFan]

In Kansas City, where I live, I have seen numerous pedestrian signals where, even though they have the push-button controls, the walk sign always seems to appear every time the main (car traffic) light turns green, even when no pedestrians are around to call the signal.

Have any of you seen that phenomenon in your city, and if not there, then where have you found such signals? I'm sure that in many cities throughout the country, it's pretty commonplace - right?

[Big John]

I have seen reports of New York City doing that, as it is cheaper to leave the now inactive push button in place than to remove it.

[Bruce]

Seattle has converted quite a few. The beg buttons at these intersections remain in place for people who need audio cues.

One example is Broadway & John/Olive on Capitol Hill. Without the buttons, there's no loud "It is safe to cross Broadway" which would drive people nuts if it was playing every 2 minutes all day and night.

[roadman65]

Many places do that during peak travel times, but during non peak, the pedestrian has to push the call button.

[Rothman]

The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.  Call buttons are becoming solely an ADA feature to help the blind cross safely with audio cues, rather than actually calling for a change in the light.

I walk frequently and rarely use call buttons because of this.  They have no effect on making my walks any faster.

[hotdogPi]

The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.

In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.

[chrisg69911]

NJDOT just upgraded some ped signals on NJ17 and now they all automatically go to walk signals. Everywhere else around still needs the button pushed

[wanderer2575]

Many places do that during peak travel times, but during non peak, the pedestrian has to push the call button.

I came here to say this.  The signal at Grand River Avenue and Farmington Road in downtown Farmington, MI is like this.  Another signal near me is similar, although I haven't figured out how "peak time" was programmed; it sometimes seems random.

I think it was noted years ago somewhere here in the forum, but there was (maybe still is) a variation at Greenfield and Ten Mile roads in Oak Park, MI.  When the first generation of computer-controlled signals was installed in the early '80s, the pedestrian signals required pushbutton activation. The Orthodox Jewish community said having to do so while walking to and from synagogue on the sabbath went against their religious principles.  The county road commission reprogrammed the controller so the pedestrian signals automatically activated between Friday afternoon and Saturday night.

[Rothman]

The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.

In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.

Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then.  I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.

[roadman65]

I never heard of a signal that responds to people walking on the sidewalk. However it wouldn't surprise me that a computer geek in a lab somewhere came up with a device.

[hotdogPi]

I never heard of a signal that responds to people walking on the sidewalk. However it wouldn't surprise me that a computer geek in a lab somewhere came up with a device.

I don't think it would work. Not everyone is crossing.

[jeffandnicole]

It's common in the cities I visit.  Generally speaking, if signals are just timed rather than change based on sensors, the Walk signal will activate every cycle. This occurs in most cities, especially downtowns.

With NJDOT and the counties, it varies on each signal installation, but quite often they will automatically provide the main roadway with a walk signal, then when traffic is detected on the cross street, it goes into its Don't Walk phase.

[epzik8]

My understanding is that the button in a lot of places does nothing more than activate the chirping sounds of the signal.

[KCRoadFan]

The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.

In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.

Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then.  I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.

Yes, that's what I meant - pedestrian signals that change on their own on a regular interval, even with a button.

[freebrickproductions]

The vast majority of pedestrian signals are set up this way, in my experience.

In my area (referring to Lowell/Lawrence/Haverhill, not Boston), this is not the case. I've seen pretty much every signalized intersection in Lawrence and some in nearby towns, and the only times a walk signal goes on without pressing the button is when it's per direction. There are no automatic all-red pedestrian phases anywhere. Even the busiest intersections at UMass Lowell require button presses for an all-red pedestrian phase, even though someone presses it over 98% of the cycles during school hours.

Perhaps we're misunderstanding the OP, then.  I thought he was saying the walk signals just turn on with the green traffic direction automatically.

Yes, that's what I meant - pedestrian signals that change on their own on a regular interval, even with a button.

Other than places, like NYC, where the buttons are provided to assist blind pedestrians, the only ones I would think of are where the button is broken/jammed and constantly placing a call on the pedestrian phase. Of course, I have heard that NYC used to install non-audible buttons that didn't really do anything to try and encourage people to wait.

[RobbieL2415]

I have never encountered a signalized intersection in NYC that isn't automatic but also has a push-button. Though, I imagine they do exist in the outer neighborhoods.

[JayhawkCO]

These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".

[andrepoiy]

In Ontario, for intersections in downtown areas that have no activation, pedestrian and car signals are just timed.

For actuated signals, there's often enough green time allocated for the pedestrian signal to also turn on when nobody has touched the button, usually occurring at peak hours on the road with more traffic volumes (or in the case of two major roads intersecting, both roads).

[wanderer2575]

These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".

That's because there's a pavement or camera sensor to trigger the cross street green light phase when a vehicle is there.  No vehicle, so the signal skipped that phase and went back to the beginning of the green light phase for you, which includes restarting the Walk cycle.  This isn't what the OP is talking about.

[MATraveler128]

I know of a few places around my area that do this. There's one intersection in downtown Melrose that always activates the crossing as well as MA 1A at Canal St/Jefferson Ave in Salem. I've always hated that intersection during my local travels.

[ran4sh]

In Kansas City, where I live, I have seen numerous pedestrian signals where, even though they have the push-button controls, the walk sign always seems to appear every time the main (car traffic) light turns green, even when no pedestrians are around to call the signal.

Have any of you seen that phenomenon in your city, and if not there, then where have you found such signals? I'm sure that in many cities throughout the country, it's pretty commonplace - right?

This is done either because the button is used to add more time (rarely), or more commonly, they used to be functional but as the amount of pedestrian traffic increased, it was determined that it was better to simply give pedestrians a timed phase that occurs each time instead of making them press a button. The latter most famously occurs in NYC, which leads to the myth that buttons *everywhere* are non-functional, even though it was really a NYC-only thing.

Seattle has converted quite a few. The beg buttons at these intersections remain in place for people who need audio cues.

One example is Broadway & John/Olive on Capitol Hill. Without the buttons, there's no loud "It is safe to cross Broadway" which would drive people nuts if it was playing every 2 minutes all day and night.

The University of Georgia campus used to have a few signals which played audio for pedestrians each cycle, regardless of any button pushes. They might still have some

[roadfro]

These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".

That's because there's a pavement or camera sensor to trigger the cross street green light phase when a vehicle is there.  No vehicle, so the signal skipped that phase and went back to the beginning of the green light phase for you, which includes restarting the Walk cycle.  This isn't what the OP is talking about.

The main street phase is likely using "rest in walk" feature that automatically brings up the walk phase whenever the main street has a green. If the side street phase is skipped, then the walk starts over again on the main street.

[Brandon]

In Chicago, the pedestrian signals come on automatically without any buttons.  However, in Joliet, there are buttons, and they do activate the pedestrian signals.  This is due to a ped/vehicle crash back in 1983 where the city was using the automatic ones at Western and Center (https://maps.app.goo.gl/FxzaHbUgNdvXSuAd9) and a kid crossed with the signal.  If I recall correctly, it's been 40 years, the signals malfunctioned so that she had the walk signal to cross Western while Western also had a green signal.  Henceforth, the city never again used the automatic pedestrian signals and has used the push buttons exclusively.

[jeffandnicole]

These happen constantly here in Aurora. In fact, happened today as I was driving my son to day care. I saw ahead that the counter was counting down from 7, so let my foot off the gas anticipating a red light. When it got to zero, the light didn't change from green and it just went back to "Walk".

There's about 5 or so programmable options for walk signals, and this is one of them.  It's relatively infrequently utilized, but some intersections have them.

[Henry]

I strongly prefer the automatic walk signals because I like how they sync with the green lights.