As I am wont to do, I now bring up a question about what really matters. If you were to die now, would you be content with what you have done? I, certainly, would be unhappy about what I haven't yet done, but I do think that what I've done just might be worthy of a lifetime.
I believe that the greatest peace in life comes from peace with impending death. A "roadgeek" is someone with an obsessive interest in a topic most would find unworthwhile. It's my belief that obsessive interests are the things that make life worth living, that what you can excel at far beyond the common population is what can give a sense of accomplishment worthy of living for. While "roadology" is but a single of my many obsessive interests, it is having found this community that shows me that there is a potential for people to pay deep attention to things, however boring.
The value of an obsession is not simply what you gain therefrom, but is also in the appreciation that can be seen from having that obsession. If you can leave your knowledge to others, and those others will benefit from it, then you've done something that is worth doing. I have experienced extreme depression, and have spent half of my lifetime wishing to have never existed. It is, to me, the most unachievable of achievements to feel a sense of adequacy from having existed, and yet I just about feel that. I don't know any of your stories, but I do know that many of you are as obsessive as I am, and that this obsession does not result from a boringly normal experience. I present to you the question herein with the hope that it will inspire or otherwise cause you to think about the things that really matter, about whether you're comfortable that you've done things that really matter.
What are your thoughts? The very first thing I prayed for after having attended church as a child is to have never existed, asking God to undo what I thought of as the mistake of my existence. I do not know if I will ever feel that existence was worthwhile, but I suspect that in a community of other obsessive individuals I will find similar stories of people who have had difficulties reconciling the facts of reality and that these individuals will have lessons to teach me.
QuoteI believe that the greatest peace in life comes from peace with impending death.
I think this is a great thing to live by (or die by). As for me, I feel like I will have missed out on so much if I were to die right now. I still haven't traveled as much as I would have liked to. There are still lots of things in life I would like to accomplish, and many of which will come with age.
I would be content in that I beat the odds stacked against me to get where I am today. Not a lot of people from a background such as mine make it to where they live a comfortable life and can afford to do things that many others can't. For that, I am very proud and humble.
I am curious what happens when we die, but that's for another discussion.
Quote from: codyg1985 on September 06, 2013, 04:40:29 AM
I am curious what happens when we die, but that's for another discussion.
I appreciate your response. I, also, have a less-than-stellar background that needs to be overcome before I can have a sense that that I've done something worthwhile.
The matter you refer to really is for another discussion, but I hope I can offer insight with one of my essays. I never intend to impose my perspective as truth, but only hope to offer it as a consideration. This is what I've come up with on the post-death experience: http://www.universalassemblyofthecreator.org/nature.html (http://www.universalassemblyofthecreator.org/nature.html) The e-mail address there is valid if you wish to address the topic with me directly.
I don't fear death at all, even though I haven't exactly led a full life. I do fear dying painfully, but as far as dying, I'm not fucked up about it.
This is a very unusual topic to bring up in an open forum. I am not one to reminisce about the past. I've made mistakes, I've also had people make mistakes that have affected me. I don't play the blame game, even when I know the cause. I'm always looking forward - how can I best play the hand that I currently have - and trying to enjoy life to the maximum extent possible, both now and in the future (so I may have to sacrifice a little fun now for more fun later). If I die, I'm dead, so I really don't care how or when it happened. At the same time, I don't feel like there is anything I NEED TO ACCOMPLISH before I die, because - see above. I can't be disappointed or unfulfilled without a brain. In the hypothetical "afterlife" scenario, then I think I will be that much happier after my upcoming Australia trip, but that's just about the only (realistic) thing I really have on my bucket list.
I wouldn't say I've led a full life, and there's no way I'd really be able to fix that (I missed out on so many experiences growing up to various circumstances). I know I'll never be able to live a normal life except on the surface (combination of Asperger's Syndrome and who knows what else), and while the thought is depressing, I've recognized that this won't ever change. I'm at the point where I neither fear nor look forward to death (my thoughts here come from Alanland).
Honestly, I'm hoping to become a goddess with effectively unlimited control of space, time, and matter when I die (accompanied by my fellow goddesses, of course), but that's unlikely to happen.
This is an unusual topic. There seems to be a lot of insight around here; I wanted to see if I could draw some of it out a bit more. I probably chose the topic poorly. I didn't want it to be political or social; I wanted something practical and universal. I may have gone a little too universal. Thanks for what's been contributed. It's an interesting topic to me.
Quote from: wxfree on September 06, 2013, 11:35:16 PM
I didn't want it to be political or social; I wanted something practical and universal.
Pooing is always cool.
Yeah, I will be content with death once I have found true love in my life. Until I reach that point, I have something to hold out hope for. If I were to die today, that would honestly be my only regret. I'm otherwise at peace with myself and what I have done with my life, even if I am young. Sure, I haven't seen as much of this pale blue dot as I'd like to, but at the end of the day that's fairly insignificant. I believe that when you die, none of that sort of thing matters- all that matters is that you've done your best to be a good person, and I'm fairly content that I have. I have no idea if there's an after life or not but I'd like to think there is, and personally I find comfort in clinging to that hope, however unfounded in science.
Quote from: corco on September 07, 2013, 12:05:04 AM
Yeah, I will be content with death once I have found true love in my life. Until I reach that point, I have something to hold out hope for. If I were to die today, that would honestly be my only regret. I'm otherwise at peace with myself and what I have done with my life, even if I am young. Sure, I haven't seen as much of this pale blue dot as I'd like to, but at the end of the day that's fairly insignificant. I believe that when you die, none of that sort of thing matters- all that matters is that you've done your best to be a good person, and I'm fairly content that I have. I have no idea if there's an after life or not but I'd like to think there is, and personally I find comfort in clinging to that hope, however unfounded in science.
True love is fun, until it breaks up with you. Then you realize it's just another thing. I think this is the most personal reflection I've posted on the Internet in 10 years.
Quote from: corco on September 07, 2013, 12:05:04 AM
Yeah, I will be content with death once I have found true love in my life. Until I reach that point, I have something to hold out hope for. If I were to die today, that would honestly be my only regret. I'm otherwise at peace with myself and what I have done with my life, even if I am young. Sure, I haven't seen as much of this pale blue dot as I'd like to, but at the end of the day that's fairly insignificant. I believe that when you die, none of that sort of thing matters- all that matters is that you've done your best to be a good person, and I'm fairly content that I have. I have no idea if there's an after life or not but I'd like to think there is, and personally I find comfort in clinging to that hope, however unfounded in science.
Don't link happiness to a relationship. I did that for years, and have only recently gotten away from it.
Quote from: Steve on September 07, 2013, 02:50:19 PM
True love is fun, until it breaks up with you. Then you realize it's just another thing.
I would argue that if it breaks up with you, then clearly it was just love, not
true love.
I would agree, though, that some people just aren't cut out to have a relationship that ends up being "permanent". Doesn't necessarily make you a bad person, or even an unattractive/undesirable person - it can just mean that you aren't willing to put in the necessary time and effort to continually maintain such a relationship because you have other priorities in life, or that the freedom of being single makes you happier than anything a relationship has to offer.
Anyways, to respond to the original question - no, I would not be content with my life if it ended right now... but I'm only 25. I'd raise an eyebrow if anyone my age said otherwise. 25 years is not enough time to lead a full life no matter what you do.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 07, 2013, 09:16:35 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 07, 2013, 02:50:19 PM
True love is fun, until it breaks up with you. Then you realize it's just another thing.
I would argue that if it breaks up with you, then clearly it was just love, not true love.
Perfectly stated.
I had a high school classmate who killed himself the day before our junior year started. The note he left said he had done everything he wanted to do in life. I don't know how anyone could decide that at age 16. He was always a creepy guy, most of us disliked him because he was very unfriendly, but it was still a shock.
It made me pause for a long time because I had struggled with being depressed two years prior, although I kept it hidden from everyone. The shock we all felt made me think, what would it have done to my family and relatives if I'd done the same thing? Nowadays I look back and I think I was a dumbass to get depressed over struggles in school and the like. You get past things. Few things are ever as bad as they seem at the time (maybe some terminal diseases are an exception).
Edited to add: Oh, holy shit. I did a Bing search for the name of my high school classmate and found his twin brother killed himself in 2010. Damn. I remember both of them. In addition to school, they were in my Boy Scout troop.
Quotewhat would it have done to my family and relatives if I'd done the same thing? Nowadays I look back and I think I was a dumbass to get depressed over struggles in school and the like. You get past things. Few things are ever as bad as they seem at the time
This for sure- I struggled with depression through much of high school and early college, and it was the thought of abandoning my family and how much it would hurt them if I offed myself that prevented it. I've learned now that bad times happen, but they always pass. Life goes in up and down cycles, and sometimes you're in a down cycle but if you've hit the bottom, you have to remember it can only get better.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 07, 2013, 10:37:50 PM
I had a high school classmate who killed himself the day before our junior year started. The note he left said he had done everything he wanted to do in life.
So why did he kill himself if it wasn't on his list of things he wanted to do? Logic is hard.
Yeah, I've got that depression thing too. Not suicidal though.
Quote from: bugo on September 07, 2013, 03:00:40 PM
Don't link happiness to a relationship. I did that for years, and have only recently gotten away from it.
That's about what I'd say. If you're unhappy where you are, you'll probably carry that unhappiness with you when things change.
That said, I get the impression corco is eagerly awaiting different and better circumstances, not that s/he (sorry, I don't know) is carrying around unhappiness. The totality of corco's post seems to show what I think is a pretty well-balanced perspective on things.
I only one time made the actual decision to kill myself, but I (fortunately or unfortunately) had arranged things so that it wouldn't be easy. After about 15 minutes of trying to find an effective way, I sought a different outcome. For about 15 years self-termination was a thought I had almost very frequently, but my depression experience really wasn't centered on that. I always had the sense that I couldn't undo what had been done, that the only way to really fix the problem would be to have never existed.
I don't think I really regret not having killed myself, but sometimes I think it might have been better if I had. I haven't been depressed in about 6 years, and self-termination isn't an inclination I still have, but I think it scarred me enough that I think differently about it than most people, who usually accept it as a fact that it's a bad thing.
My focus now is on doing something worthwhile. For me, it's a tall order because of my difficult past; it leaves me wondering if anything can make it worthwhile. I really don't mean for this to sound depressed. I think that my obsessive love of learning and figuring things out, which is probably related to the reason I was depressed to begin with, brings me toward a sense that it was worthwhile. Having spent all those years doing almost nothing else but thinking about stuff (for several years I was completely disabled, couldn't finish school, could barely make conversation, so I did a lot of thinking), I've found a lot of order and inter-relatedness in things. To me the world is a beautiful place. My unpleasant experience helped me to find a level of beauty that not everyone sees or appreciates.
I'm not sure why I'm going into so much detail here. When I start something I tend to jump into the deep end. Again, I appreciate the insights given here.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 07, 2013, 10:37:50 PM
Nowadays I look back and I think I was a dumbass to get depressed over struggles in school and the like. You get past things. Few things are ever as bad as they seem at the time (maybe some terminal diseases are an exception).
People tend to overestimate things. The turmoil of youth combined with the lack of perspective from experience can distort how things are thought of. It gets better with age, but the overestimating seems to be a natural behavior that never really leaves.
Since I was little, I had always wished that I would wake up one day as a girl. I always dreamt of myself as a girl. It occupies my thoughts rather frequently (read: all the fucking time) and I think to myself that this is what I want the most in my life. I don't think I will ever be content with my life as it is right now; my emotional discomfort tears me apart. (I am crying as I type this.)
Quote from: sammi on September 08, 2013, 12:29:15 AM
Since I was little, I had always wished that I would wake up one day as a girl. I always dreamt of myself as a girl. It occupies my thoughts rather frequently (read: all the fucking time) and I think to myself that this is what I want the most in my life. I don't think I will ever be content with my life as it is right now; my emotional discomfort tears me apart. (I am crying as I type this.)
I am reluctant to say much, because I suspect professional help may be warranted and that help from well-meaning amateurs may do more harm than good. I hope it's helpful to tell you that I've also been through significant trouble for a very long period of time and have found that things can be better. Professional help, sometimes medication, support from friends and family, and a lot of patience can bring very beneficial results. At your age, you should discuss this matter with your parents. I remember being depressed at your age and being almost surprised at how much people wanted to help me. The way I felt, it seemed like no one would care. It was one of the best experiences in my life, even in the depths of depression, seeing everyone run in to help and to get the things done that needed to be done. Just make the first step to seek help.
I went through a bad bad breakup this year and I often contemplated suicide this summer. the only hope I had was knowing that the Grand Unified Alan in the Sky wasn't ready for me to go just yet. so I puckered on through, sometimes I wish I was hit by a bus. blessed be the suicidal. they need people to understand and guide them through when times go rough so they do not do the unthinkable.
life sucks.
If I were to die right now I would be very discontent, as I have never left the North American continent. I have never had a romantic partner worth writing home about, I dont own a cool old Volvo and I haven't graduated university.
I've been there (comtemplating suicide) before a few times.
What I have learned from those experiences is that everytime something bad happens, everything turns out ok, and in the end I feel stupid for over-reacting.
I made a large mistake, failing to consider that discussion of ongoing events may be drawn in here. While problems don't need to remain buried, a public forum is no place to go digging for them.
I appreciate the insight that has been offered. I am sorry for my poorly thought out decisions and suggest that this discussion be considered for deletion. I'll be more careful.
Quote from: sammi on September 08, 2013, 12:29:15 AM
Since I was little, I had always wished that I would wake up one day as a girl. I always dreamt of myself as a girl. It occupies my thoughts rather frequently (read: all the fucking time) and I think to myself that this is what I want the most in my life. I don't think I will ever be content with my life as it is right now; my emotional discomfort tears me apart. (I am crying as I type this.)
I cannot speak from personal experience here, but you should know that gender dysphoria is far from unusual. You shouldn't feel bad about it. You may want to do some research and get in touch with whatever sort of trans support organizations exist in your area. It is particularly difficult to go through such a thing while still living with your parents, since they may not understand or approve of your feelings, but they are your feelings, not theirs, and I hope that at some point soon you will be able to live a more comfortable lifestyle than what you are currently going through. Good luck!
Quote from: wxfree on September 08, 2013, 01:24:15 AM
I made a large mistake, failing to consider that discussion of ongoing events may be drawn in here. While problems don't need to remain buried, a public forum is no place to go digging for them.
I appreciate the insight that has been offered. I am sorry for my poorly thought out decisions and suggest that this discussion be considered for deletion. I'll be more careful.
I don't think you were wrong to ask for opinions. It's something all of us face at some point or other. In fact, I can relate to the depression issue and to suicide as well. I've been on both sides, both as the person left behind...and as the person considering the act. Twice in my life, I have considered taking myself out of the equation, and in August of 2007 my aunt ended her own life.
My message to anyone that may have the same battle I'm having with depression (and for that matter ANY issues that may be wreaking havoc with your life)...please don't ever stop trying to get help. The solution is out there.
Quote from: sammi on September 08, 2013, 12:29:15 AM
Since I was little, I had always wished that I would wake up one day as a girl. I always dreamt of myself as a girl. It occupies my thoughts rather frequently (read: all the fucking time) and I think to myself that this is what I want the most in my life. I don't think I will ever be content with my life as it is right now; my emotional discomfort tears me apart. (I am crying as I type this.)
I HIGHLY recommend getting a reputable gender therapist. In the interests of keeping the thread on topic I'll say more in a PM.
My outlook is that you can never accomplish everything you want to do in life. Everything involved with learning and planning takes so much time off of our hands that we can never learn or accomplish absolutely everything we would like to or have a passion for. That said, I would be fine with death here and now.
The sheer fact that it's very possible I could just be walking along the street one day, and, BAM! I'm dead, does creep me out very slightly, but it doesn't take away from the fact that I learn from experiences each and every day I live.
If I could live forever, I wouldn't, because I find the greatest things in life are my own curiosities. Take away all curiosities, and I'm left with nothing to get out of life; in that situation, I wouldn't be living life to the fullest.
There have been two occasions in life where I've almost committed suicide, but my own fear of pain (I have an extremely low pain tolerance) cheated me out of it.
As I don't believe in true love, I cannot say that's one of life's greatest virtues. A life shared can be a benefit to you as well as cripple you. One of the cripples could be sacrifices to your own life; I'll never even think about completely giving up on a hobby just to please someone else. The sheer notion of that is not only one of the things that can make your life miserable, it is also downright painful.
Quote from: Molandfreak on September 08, 2013, 01:55:36 PM
My outlook is that you can never accomplish everything you want to do in life. Everything involved with learning and planning takes so much time off of our hands that we can never learn or accomplish absolutely everything we would like to or have a passion for. That said, I would be fine with death here and now.
The sheer fact that it's very possible I could just be walking along the street one day, and, BAM! I'm dead, does creep me out very slightly, but it doesn't take away from the fact that I learn from experiences each and every day I live.
If I could live forever, I wouldn't, because I find the greatest things in life are my own curiosities. Take away all curiosities, and I'm left with nothing to get out of life; in that situation, I wouldn't be living life to the fullest.
That's very much my outlook on things. Without that next thing to be done, which for me mostly means learning, I don't see a point to going on. This relates to road trips. I love long road trips. Seeing the roads, the land, the weather, and the culture along the way there, these things are as important as getting to the destination. In life, the process of getting to where you're going is, to me, where the value is.
Quote
As I don't believe in true love, I cannot say that's one of life's greatest virtues. A life shared can be a benefit to you as well as cripple you. One of the cripples could be sacrifices to your own life; I'll never even think about completely giving up on a hobby just to please someone else. The sheer notion of that is not only one of the things that can make your life miserable, it is also downright painful.
My philosophy is that what really matters is what you leave behind: the things you've taught and the love you've given. I have a somewhat Ayn Rand view of things, not that greed is good, but that greed is the only true motivation. In my view, motivation is like gravity: it only goes inward. Some people serve themselves by doing for themselves, and some serve themselves by doing for others. Love, to me, is a label, not a force; it's a label that we put on certain motivations. I do believe in love, but I disagree with the idea that "love is all you need." To make any relationship work, you need love plus a bunch of other things, and the closer the relationship (and especially marriage) the more of those other things you need.
Thank you for bringing up this topic, wxfree. Sometimes a little openness is important. I know my post is long, but I wanted to share with you that we impact people in every moment of our lives, and that loved ones are greatly missed when they are gone.
Most people consider me the happiest person they know, and it's true, I'm pretty happy. But I've gone through some tragic life events. My father passed away unexpectedly when I was 19 and my on-again off-again boyfriend died from epilepsy when we were 20. I sunk into a terrible, awful depression. I should have flunked out of undergrad but by the grace of God (and of Lynchburg College) I didn't and managed to graduate.
Dad and Travis died young and did not fulfill their bucket lists, but the impact they had on the people around them lives on. My father was known to try and help the people around him. He used a lot of networking to get family and friends jobs (he was a store manager and a retired government worker). He would go on bike rides with them and be a listening ear if they just needed to talk. One of his friends needed help coming out of the closet and he gave her the confidence to do it. These aren't grandiose things, but these are lives he touched. Family friends who now have better lives because he gave them the confidence and the networking.
Travis died very young but his impact has been lasting. He was told by his neurologist about 9 months before he died that he would die within the next five seizures he had. Rather than wait for death to come, he lived his life to the fullest. He healed broken bridges with people. He went back to school and had straight A's his last two semesters. He got back in touch with God and shared his Christian faith with family and friends. He even overcame his fear of horseback riding and broke a colt for a boarder at his family's ranch.
In my own life, Dad and Travis have impacted my life. Dad wanted his kids to experience the things he knew he wouldn't have the chance to do, like finish college. Also, dad wanted to visit Italy. The Bianca family is from Palermo, Sicily and the Nido family (paternal grandmother's side) from Napoli, Italy. I had the opportunity to study aboard in Turkey, Greece, and Italy from May-June 2007. Dad encouraged me to go. As I was crossing on a ferry from Greece to Italy, my father passed away. After the initial shock and sobbing wore off, God gave me an unexplained peace. I realized that my father was watching me from heaven and experiencing Italy with me. (I'm crying as I write this.) For the remainder of my trip, I felt the Holy Spirit beaming inside of me. Without trying, I gave my class so much courage and hope. Ultimately, while I am sad and grieving, I know that life will be ok, God is taking care of me, my father can see Italy from heaven. Italy is full of old, beautiful cathedrals and churches - I couldn't go anywhere without a visual recognition of God's presence.
Travis taught me that life is too short to hold grudges, to stay mad, to cause unnecessary drama. Also, we can touch people through our art and writing. I wrote a lot of poetry after Dad and Travis died; I have won awards for that poetry. I really touched people by sharing the poems I wrote that were inspired by these people and my feelings after their deaths.
I hope I live to be an old old lady. I hope Mike and I have decades of happiness and roads. I hope to have children and grandchildren to share roads with. I hope to finish my master's in city and regional planning and to impact transportation. I hope God doesn't end my life sooner. Obviously, if I died suddenly, I wouldn't have time to regret anything, but if I found out that I had an incurable disease, I would die without regrets and would try to spend as much time with family and friends as possible and to try and take at least one last big trip somewhere.
My aunt just passed on Saturday. She was only 60. She was an alcoholic, and I hate to think what her liver looked like. I don't think an autopsy will be performed, so we may never know what actually killed her.
Wow, I guess I can consider myself lucky – damned lucky at that – where my life began and came from; a middle-class background free from physical threat, a pattern death of death of loved ones (at least until I was older), and although I was not always happy...I always imagined things would pass and I'd always find a little happiness in something along the way. And looking back over almost forty years, for the most part I've always been pretty mentally buoyant; if not wearing some sort of stoic or dazed look on my face while some wonderful and/or odd thoughts always coursed their ways around real and imaginary things.
I travel a lot, both planes and automobiles, and it's not a terribly great secret that I occasionally take some risks when travelling alone. I've been lucky, sometimes smart, and sometimes just in the right place and right time to avoid injury, let alone death. Occasionally, the thought pops in my head about "what if" this happens or that; looking at traffic or that aircraft wing does invoke a bit of mechanical faith, but for the most part, I never dwell on it, let alone worry about it for more than a moment or two.
I've achieved a great deal in my life; sure, there's probably little to no public achievements that anyone other than family and friends would remember me by...but looking back, I've generally led a personally virtuous life, felt I've harmed as few as possible, and with very few regrets. Even those would be ones that have generally made me who I am today. But with all that, I am married to the love of my life, and I have a daughter and son; while at my age, I'd sacrifice my life for any of them, I'd still like to be there for them, watch them grow, help them out, and be both father and Dad. I hope never to permanently depart until they are wise, safe, smart, and self-sufficient, and to not leave my wife alone to raise them, and give them nobody to look towards. Every moment I spend with them, I realize they're a lot like me (as well as my wife, naturally).
So, I always have my kids and my wife as my reasons to continue on, as well as my own comparatively petty interests in my spare moments to spur me on. Death is inevitable, entropy happens, nothing lasts forever, and with all that impermanence is change...you can put up the good fight, but you have to pick your battles. In those ways, I intend to give that bastard Death a run for his money, and at least tire him out in his quest to scythe me...
Quote from: Laura Bianca on September 09, 2013, 12:19:15 AM
Thank you for bringing up this topic, wxfree. Sometimes a little openness is important. I know my post is long, but I wanted to share with you that we impact people in every moment of our lives, and that loved ones are greatly missed when they are gone.
Most people consider me the happiest person they know, and it's true, I'm pretty happy. But I've gone through some tragic life events. My father passed away unexpectedly when I was 19 and my on-again off-again boyfriend died from epilepsy when we were 20. I sunk into a terrible, awful depression. I should have flunked out of undergrad but by the grace of God (and of Lynchburg College) I didn't and managed to graduate.
Very moving and very well-written. Thank you for sharing.
I lost my Mother when I was 21, in 1980. She died after a long battle with breast cancer, just before I was to graduate from college. Not much fun.
Much more recently, my only brother died as a direct result of an epileptic seizure. I strongly suspect (but cannot prove) that even though he died from injury associated with that seizure, that he had stopped taking his anti-seizure medicines (his epilepsy was pretty well under control thanks to a wonderful doctor at Johns Hopkins).
After losing my brother, my wife asked me to move out, which I have done. Not her fault, but mine. So I am trying to clean up my act, though I don't know if our relationship will ever go back to what it once was.