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Regional Boards => Great Lakes and Ohio Valley => Topic started by: zzomtceo on January 30, 2014, 04:51:00 PM

Title: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: zzomtceo on January 30, 2014, 04:51:00 PM
Although the stretch of US-127 north of Lansing that stops being a freeway for awhile is annoying, the majority of issues are with interchanges. To start it off, the I-96 & I-196 and I-96/M-37 & 131 interchanges in the Grand Rapids area aren't even directional.
Note: Originally posted to the national forums but reposted here because it didn't belong there. I can't delete the old one myself but I reported it to the mods so hopefully they'll delete it.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: sammi on January 30, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Median U-turns. Got into an accident because of one.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Molandfreak on January 30, 2014, 11:04:54 PM
MDOT's hatred of expressways (the if it's not good enough for a freeway, it's not good enough for anything mentality)

The U.S. 31 upgrade in Benton Harbor being put off so long. MDOT seriously half-assed that by leaving it incomplete in 2003.

Minor complaint, but I can't think of any good reason why an I-896 designation wasn't pursued for M-6.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: brianreynolds on January 31, 2014, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: zzomtceo on January 30, 2014, 04:51:00 PM
Although the stretch of US-127 north of Lansing that stops being a freeway for awhile is annoying, the majority of issues are with interchanges.

The unfinished freeway between St. Johns and Ithaca is annoying, but it is much less so than it was 15 years ago.  MDOT has been making incremental improvements, the most obvious being the interchange at M-57.  From there south, there have been several intersection upgrades where the crossover traffic was eliminated.  The big relief was when it was re-signed for 65 MPH.  Without those intersection upgrades, there was a valid argument that 65 MPH would be unsafe.

Quote from: Molandfreak on January 30, 2014, 11:04:54 PM
MDOT's hatred of expressways (the if it's not good enough for a freeway, it's not good enough for anything mentality)

The U.S. 31 upgrade in Benton Harbor being put off so long. MDOT seriously half-assed that by leaving it incomplete in 2003.

Agreed on both counts.     To those, I would add my personal list.

I-94 needs another lane in each direction from US-23 to US-31.  Not an easy task.  With the original 1950s design, MDOT boxed itself in on the west side of Ann Arbor.  There are plenty of other challenges along the way.

US-31 at Benton Harbor is the worst of several missing links.  Maybe someday the US-31 connection from Zeeland to Nunica will be complete.  Certainly not in my lifetime.  This is another case of opportunity lost.  If the road had been upgraded in the 1960s, the new alignment could have been fit between Holland and Zeeland.  I don't like the planned loop east of Zeeland.

Maybe the traffic counts don't justify it, but I wish there was a new US-131 connection from near Elmira to I-75 near Vanderbilt.  Eventually the corridor from Manton to Vanderbilt could be upgraded to freeway (or expressway!!).  Maybe this should be filed under "Fantasy Roads".
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: keithvh on January 31, 2014, 08:49:59 AM
Quote from: brianreynolds on January 31, 2014, 08:32:06 AM

I-94 needs another lane in each direction from US-23 to US-31.  Not an easy task.  With the original 1950s design, MDOT boxed itself in on the west side of Ann Arbor.  There are plenty of other challenges along the way.


I think this is the winner.  That's a slog of a drive when there is heavy traffic (which is often).  Unfortunately, as you said, it's very challenging to add that lane.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: sammi on January 30, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Median U-turns. Got into an accident because of one.

why is this crossed out?

my biggest complaint is "absence of state-named shields".  I love the speed limit 70 even through the urban wasteland.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: cu2010 on January 31, 2014, 09:19:45 AM
It's been a while, but the last time I was in Michigan, a lot of the freeways were in utterly awful condition. My ass started aching after about an hour of driving...

No excuse for a major freeway to be that terribly rough. Hopefully they've fixed them since. :)
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: mgk920 on January 31, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
Me?  The lack of a US 41 freeway bypass of Menominee.

Also the lack of one for US 2 running westward from I-75 at Saint Ignace to at least US 41.

Mike
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JCinSummerfield on January 31, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
US-12 from M-50 to US-127 should be more than two lanes.  MIS traffic takes forever because all roads leaving there are 2-laned.

My personal pet peeve, which I've mentioned here before, is US-31 should cross the straits of Mackinac and replace M-123's eastern leg to Whitefish Point.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: sammi on January 31, 2014, 02:26:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 31, 2014, 08:52:00 AM
Quote from: sammi on January 30, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Median U-turns. Got into an accident because of one.

why is this crossed out?

Because I don't think it really counts... :/ Which states have (or don't have, whichever list is shorter) median U-turns?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: renegade on January 31, 2014, 02:58:36 PM
Quote from: sammi on January 30, 2014, 04:52:38 PM
Median U-turns. Got into an accident because of one.

You must be referring to the 'Michigan Left.'  Those are not found on freeways, so that would explain the strikeout.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: sammi on January 31, 2014, 03:27:55 PM
I know about the Michigan left, the specific one I saw was at Zeeb and Jackson in Ann Arbor. I actually kinda like them.

What I was referring to was the ones on freeways that say AUTHORIZED VEHICLES ONLY. The one at I-94 east of Old US-12 (mile 162) was where an unmarked police car U-turned without yielding, causing us to bump into another car, which is why our car is still down there being fixed right now.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: zzomtceo on January 31, 2014, 03:42:41 PM
Quote from: sammi on January 31, 2014, 03:27:55 PM
I know about the Michigan left, the specific one I saw was at Zeeb and Jackson in Ann Arbor. I actually kinda like them.

What I was referring to was the ones on freeways that say AUTHORIZED VEHICLES ONLY. The one at I-94 east of Old US-12 (mile 162) was where an unmarked police car U-turned without yielding, causing us to bump into another car, which is why our car is still down there being fixed right now.
Those are all over US-127 down by Lansing, so annoying that they even exist, I've never seen one used before.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 31, 2014, 06:03:35 PM
The gap on US 31 between Holland and Grand Haven.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: GaryV on January 31, 2014, 07:25:31 PM
I-75 needs 3 lanes each way from US-10 north to the US-23 split (Bay City to ~ Standish).
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Alps on February 01, 2014, 02:40:35 AM
Pavement.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: zzomtceo on February 01, 2014, 02:50:54 AM
Quote from: Alps on February 01, 2014, 02:40:35 AM
Pavement.
MDOT Pothole Solution: Just hope it gets filled with snow and we'll deal with it later
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: mukade on February 01, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
While I agree the need to close the US 31 gap and the need for widening I-94 are annoying, my biggest issue for many areas is that in many cases the freeways don't seem to have been re-engineered over time. Granted, I have not been every highway, but I spent a fair amount of time in Ann Arbor and Detroit over the last couple of years and both US 23 and I-94 have chronic backups at several interchanges. I-94 also has one particularly dangerous interchange (I think it is at Jackson Road). And of course, the very narrow section of I-94 through Jackson is a disgrace.

Many states seem to have been faster in re-engineering problem areas, but on some freeways in Michigan, it seems like you are in a time warp. I think Michigan had a model system at one time, and they still have an impressive number of freeway miles, but I think they need to step up the pace of improvement by adding more safety features and increasing capacity at their problem areas.

Michigan also could do a better job lighting interchanges. It seems that very few are lighted around the state.

I think the pothole problem is being experienced in every state due to the cold winter and all the precipitation. That happens.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 01, 2014, 08:11:07 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 31, 2014, 11:03:30 AM
Me?  The lack of a US 41 freeway bypass of Menominee.


I'm surprised about this one, did MI DOT studied once the possibility of a Menominee/Marinette freeway bypass with WISDOT? Wasn't some nimbys who go against that bypass?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: colinstu on February 01, 2014, 10:12:00 AM
Of all the experience I've had with MI roads (not that much) I must say the I-96/I-275/M-14 interchange is pretty bad considering how much traffic it appeared to handle. Bad weaving caused by this overworked cloverleaf as well it just seeming to be clogged up for no reason. 96/275 NB was all jammed up, not sure if that was due to the proximity of the 6 mile road interchange or something more north.

I even read up on the Michigan left before going there yet when I encountered one of those signs (the top one http://www.michiganhighways.org/images/MichiganLeftSigns.png ) I was like... WTF?! The fact the line/arrow goes from left to right threw me off, as I didn't know where I currently was really in relation to that sign. Had I encountered that lower sign I'd be much better off. Regardless, I ended up doing a quick and illegal left turn that the intersection and then realized what I just went through :P

Another thing I don't get in MI are the "No left turn" signs at every on-ramp. What are those signs exactly suggesting? Did people stop at the ramp and turn left or something ridiculous? Seems pretty common sense to keep driving forward and just merge/yield.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: rawmustard on February 01, 2014, 03:07:21 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on January 31, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
US-12 from M-50 to US-127 should be more than two lanes.  MIS traffic takes forever because all roads leaving there are 2-laned.

But on race days, a contraflow pattern is used. The portion you mention only allows inbound traffic pre-race and outbound traffic after. Fans are expected to leave the track on the same route they approached it. With this plan (and unfortunately with declining attendance), race traffic has become more bearable than in the past.

SPH-L710

Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: brianreynolds on February 01, 2014, 10:25:22 PM
Quote from: mukade on February 01, 2014, 07:06:18 AM
While I agree the need to close the US 31 gap and the need for widening I-94 are annoying, my biggest issue for many areas is that in many cases the freeways don't seem to have been re-engineered over time. Granted, I have not been every highway, but I spent a fair amount of time in Ann Arbor and Detroit over the last couple of years and both US 23 and I-94 have chronic backups at several interchanges. I-94 also has one particularly dangerous interchange (I think it is at Jackson Road). And of course, the very narrow section of I-94 through Jackson is a disgrace.

Agreed on all counts.

The original design and right of way acquisition for what became I-94 through Jackson dates back to the late 1940s.  The upgrade to interstate freeway in the late 1950s was done on the cheap.  There have been incremental interchange upgrades since then, but the trafficway still follows the (almost 70 year old) original horizontal and vertical alignment.

The alignment and interchange at Jackson Road west of Ann Arbor is even worse.  This epic failure was dysfunctional the day it opened for traffic (c. 1960).  It only gets worse as the years pass.  And there is probably nothing MDOT can do about it now.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Rupertus on February 02, 2014, 06:17:12 PM
I agree with those who have called for an extra lane on 94, particularly in Ann Arbor and Jackson, but as was suggested,  I just can't fathom how they could get another lane in there, and as mentioned, it's even tighter going through Jackson. The number of trucks on 94 is particularly complicating for the traffic. And yes, as an Ann Arborite, I do what I can to avoid getting on east 94 from Jackson Rd., which for the uninitiated involves a 90-degree turn on the ramp followed by a dangerously short merge lane, at a spot where the incoming freeway traffic (which just went down from 3 lanes to 2) is making a big sweeping curve; this all results in poor visibility for all parties. Particularly fun in the winter. There's a cemetery that apparently prevented a ramp being put in at the normal spot here.

However, if we're going to talk about adding lanes, at the top of my wish list is a 3rd lane in each direction on 23 at least between Ann Arbor and the I-96 interchange, and perhaps even all the way up to Flint. Over that stretch you've either got the left lane going 80 and the right lane going 60 (the other day a friend of mine was in a crackup on 23 when an old man going 35 decided it was a good idea to pull into the left lane), or everything is a virtual standstill. However, as with 94, it's quite built up on both sides of the freeway in lots of spots and many of the overpasses would require some serious widening to add new lanes, but the traffic volume certainly calls for it.

Then, we've come to the next problem point: the interchange between 23 and I-96. You've got left exits from 23 in both directions that take you into a tight turn and drop you into the fast lane of 96 with little room to speed up. It's my understanding that there's a plan in place to improve this interchange, but until then it leaves much to be desired.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: pianocello on February 04, 2014, 12:18:28 PM
The fact that there's a separate speed limit for trucks, even when there's only 2 lanes in each direction. I know this exists in other states, but I associate the practice with Michigan because it's the only state out of the four that I regularly visit (IA, IL, IN, MI) that uses it.

(of course, the aforementioned widening of I-94 and I-75 would help this immensely)
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Henry on February 04, 2014, 02:43:46 PM
Surely the lack of working streetlights in Detroit would make anyone complain. Granted, its population is now a third the size of what it was 50 years ago, and it's the largest American city ever to go bankrupt, but that shouldn't be an excuse for leaving drivers in the dark.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: tvketchum on February 13, 2014, 05:17:28 PM
Quote from: colinstu on February 01, 2014, 10:12:00 AM
Of all the experience I've had with MI roads (not that much) I must say the I-96/I-275/M-14 interchange is pretty bad considering how much traffic it appeared to handle. Bad weaving caused by this overworked cloverleaf as well it just seeming to be clogged up for no reason. 96/275 NB was all jammed up, not sure if that was due to the proximity of the 6 mile road interchange or something more north.

I even read up on the Michigan left before going there yet when I encountered one of those signs (the top one http://www.michiganhighways.org/images/MichiganLeftSigns.png ) I was like... WTF?! The fact the line/arrow goes from left to right threw me off, as I didn't know where I currently was really in relation to that sign. Had I encountered that lower sign I'd be much better off. Regardless, I ended up doing a quick and illegal left turn that the intersection and then realized what I just went through :P

Another thing I don't get in MI are the "No left turn" signs at every on-ramp. What are those signs exactly suggesting? Did people stop at the ramp and turn left or something ridiculous? Seems pretty common sense to keep driving forward and just merge/yield.

Those "no left turn" signs date from the early days of freeways being introduced to a motoring public, who had no reservations about turning left to head the way they want to go, and who did not realized the existence of a divided highway. Overkill in the day, but those have hung on over the years through several sign replacement projects, as they are on the plans.

I 94 presents many challenges to widening and modernizing the highway, but none that several billions of dollars can't overcome....
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Urban Prairie Schooner on February 13, 2014, 09:20:23 PM
I would guess a lot of the design deficiencies on MI freeways are partly due to the fact that MDOT was an early builder of intercity freeways. IIRC large portions of I-94 were constructed and opened as US 12 freeway prior to 1956. This would also explain the substandard urban alignments. Seems similar to CA which also got a head start on freeway building, and which thus also has antique sections of Interstate (I-5 through south LA county, etc.)

Chris Bessert's website states that the decision to construct freeway alignments for US highways was made after a number of US routes had been improved to expressway standards. This explains the freeway gaps in US 31 and US 127 (formerly 27) among other places.

(In La.'s case, our worst urban freeways were built under the auspices of the Interstate program and are yet still quite substandard.  :ded:)
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: tvketchum on February 15, 2014, 09:32:03 AM
Not only the pre-interstate freeways which were grandfathered in, but also the fact that Michigan built most of the rural miles of interstates first, when the design standards were substandard compared to the revisions of the mid 1960s. I-94 though, has the most halmarks of the pre interstate era standards, although MDOT has been nibbling away at the problems over the years. Jackson and Ann Arbor will be the expensive fixes after Detroit. I have often thought the best solution for Jackson would be a new routing north of the existing road, with the current road downgraded to an M X94 kind of highway, maybe a five lane arterial. Ann Arbor maybe a new terrain to the south of the existing road, again, with the current one downgraded to an arterial. Otherwise, both locations would require a lot of ROW aquisitions of businesses and commercial property.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: hobsini2 on February 15, 2014, 04:14:42 PM
Not enough cow bell. lol j/k
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: DevalDragon on February 18, 2014, 11:33:16 PM
The Michigan drivers combined with the poor quality pavement. At least they do a decent job salting in the winter, and the grass between the lanes in Flint on I-75 adds some scenery.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: zzomtceo on February 19, 2014, 02:41:51 PM
Quote from: DevalDragon on February 18, 2014, 11:33:16 PM
The Michigan drivers combined with the poor quality pavement. At least they do a decent job salting in the winter, and the grass between the lanes in Flint on I-75 adds some scenery.
As I said, MDOT just solves potholes by hoping they fill with snow.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JREwing78 on February 19, 2014, 07:24:52 PM
Quote from: tvketchum on February 15, 2014, 09:32:03 AM
I have often thought the best solution for Jackson would be a new routing north of the existing road, with the current road downgraded to an M X94 kind of highway, maybe a five lane arterial. Ann Arbor maybe a new terrain to the south of the existing road, again, with the current one downgraded to an arterial. Otherwise, both locations would require a lot of ROW aquisitions of businesses and commercial property.

There's sufficient ROW, and land immediately adjacent to that ROW, available around both Ann Arbor and Jackson for 8-laning I-94. I'd be shocked if 4 lanes in each direction on either stretch became a bottleneck in the next 100 years.

In Ann Arbor, they'll have to acquire ROW at the Jackson Rd interchange in Ann Arbor to smooth out the curve and avoid the graveyard. They may require a 30' strip on each side of the current ROW to accommodate the additional lanes, but that won't require many, if any, buildings to be taken.

In Jackson, they may also require narrow strips of additional ROW on each side of the existing highway, which is largely available. There may be a couple of short stretches where some homes may have to be taken, and some frontage roads moved around.

But the big deal with Jackson is the expensive bridgework over the Grand River, and replacing/widening the existing overpasses. Some kind of upgrade is also necessary for the west US-127/M-50 interchange. Even if you demote the existing route to a "business route", you're stuck with those expenses, since all of the pavement and bridgework is at End-of-Life, and you can't avoid those expenses with a downgrade in highway designation.

In each location, you'll also have to install noise walls for considerable portions of both sections. But that's not exactly breaking the budget on a full rebuild and widening.

Despite the above, it's still far cheaper (not to mention less likely to invite protests) to upgrade on the existing ROW rather than building on new ROW, particularly if you still have to maintain the old road.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: northernmi on February 20, 2014, 09:09:25 AM
I agree with others the US-31 gap down by I-94 is a government joke.   Not sure how the Interstate highway system could ever be built today.
Living in western Michigan and traveling US-31 north of Ludington, it's too bad the freeway would not have continued to Traverse City or a the least Manistee.   It will never happen now, but it would have been nice. (Probably a snail-darter in the way)    :banghead:
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 22, 2014, 09:25:28 PM
Perhaps we should provide a list of species we are willing to exterminate just to build roads.  That would clear things up.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: silverback1065 on February 22, 2014, 09:46:50 PM
It's down right embarrassing that they haven't fixed 31 at all, and their idea of fixing the gap around Holland is laughable, a worthless super 2?! Spend the money Michigan and fill the gap for real! band-aids aren't the way to go. 
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JREwing78 on February 23, 2014, 12:39:36 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 22, 2014, 09:46:50 PM
It's down right embarrassing that they haven't fixed 31 at all, and their idea of fixing the gap around Holland Grand Haven is laughable, a worthless super 2?! Spend the money Michigan and fill the gap for real! band-aids aren't the way to go. 

Fixed.  :cool:
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JREwing78 on February 23, 2014, 12:53:45 AM
OK, here's my biggest complaints about Michigan's freeway system:

- Horribly underfunded. Political cowardice has lead Michigan's leaders to horribly underfund its highways for decades. This season, with the pothole hell this spring will deliver, maybe they'll find the political courage to make the changes in registration fees and fuel taxes required to fix this.

- Delayed 6-laning of major rural freeways. I-96 west of Howell, I-94 west of Ann Arbor, US-23 south of Flint, and US-131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids stand out as most in need of widening. Frequent accidents and traffic delays only show to highlight this need.

- Delayed expressway/freeway upgrades on heavily-trafficked 2-lane corridors. See US-31 north of Ludington, US-127/US-223 south of Jackson, M-53 north of Romeo, and US-131 south of Three Rivers.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 23, 2014, 12:27:01 PM
A minor complaint of mine is the amount of space Michigan uses in too many places just to build a diamond interchange. It's as if they envision all these rural, low-traffic interchanges needing loop ramps in the future.  Seems like a waste of land and therefore money to me.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: thenetwork on February 23, 2014, 09:10:26 PM
The complaint I had about the Michigan Freeway system when I used to drive through it was the fact that they (M-DOT) were very stingy with distance / mileage signs for upcoming interchanges &/or major cities. 
 
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: brianreynolds on February 26, 2014, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 23, 2014, 12:53:45 AM
OK, here's my biggest complaints about Michigan's freeway system:

- Horribly underfunded. Political cowardice has lead Michigan's leaders to horribly underfund its highways for decades. This season, with the pothole hell this spring will deliver, maybe they'll find the political courage to make the changes in registration fees and fuel taxes required to fix this.

- Delayed 6-laning of major rural freeways. I-96 west of Howell, I-94 west of Ann Arbor, US-23 south of Flint, and US-131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids stand out as most in need of widening. Frequent accidents and traffic delays only show to highlight this need.

- Delayed expressway/freeway upgrades on heavily-trafficked 2-lane corridors. See US-31 north of Ludington, US-127/US-223 south of Jackson, M-53 north of Romeo, and US-131 south of Three Rivers.

I agree wholeheartedly.  We used to have a legislature with the will to do the right thing, at least most of the time.  But then, we used to have an electorate who focused on good government.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: texaskdog on February 26, 2014, 10:50:22 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on January 31, 2014, 02:05:21 PM
US-12 from M-50 to US-127 should be more than two lanes.  MIS traffic takes forever because all roads leaving there are 2-laned.

My personal pet peeve, which I've mentioned here before, is US-31 should cross the straits of Mackinac and replace M-123's eastern leg to Whitefish Point.

Wouldn't US-23 be more appropriate for that?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JCinSummerfield on February 27, 2014, 01:46:35 PM
I really don't see how one is more appropriate than the other.  Both end at I-75 south of the Mackinac Bridge.  I use US-31 to avoid confusion between US-23 and M-123.  What's the reasoning with your answer to use US-23?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: texaskdog on February 28, 2014, 01:40:09 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on February 27, 2014, 01:46:35 PM
I really don't see how one is more appropriate than the other.  Both end at I-75 south of the Mackinac Bridge.  I use US-31 to avoid confusion between US-23 and M-123.  What's the reasoning with your answer to use US-23?

23 comes from the SE so is already heading NW.  31 would essentially bounce off 75.  Plus if I remember correctly US 23 would replace M-123 on it's east side, thus causing less confusion. 

My pet peeve is US 41 and US 141 should be flipped, with 141 ending at Marquette.  141 (or 41) should follow 35 up the coast instead of through Powers.  The northern leg is already a US route and the southern is useless except for people who don't pay attention and just follow 41.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JCinSummerfield on March 04, 2014, 01:53:12 PM
I don't think 31 bouncing is that bad - after all, there's only one way to the UP from Mackinaw City.  Since 31 is west of 75 for its' entire length in MI, I don't see that as a problem.  The other reason I make 23 a second choice is because of the decision to truncate US-27 right out of MI because of 127.  You would have essentially the same situation with US-23 & M-123.

As far as US-41, it's like someone had their mind made up it would go through Marquette AND travel to the northern most point in MI.  I totally agree with you on switching with 141.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: GaryV on March 04, 2014, 10:18:03 PM
I don't need US-23 or US-31 to extend into the UP (although historically, US-31 did, up to Rogers Park outside St. Ignace).

But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: bulldog1979 on March 05, 2014, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: GaryV on March 04, 2014, 10:18:03 PM
But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: GaryV on March 08, 2014, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on March 05, 2014, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: GaryV on March 04, 2014, 10:18:03 PM
But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.

I know, but why?  What's the logic in creating a highway that reverses direction?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JREwing78 on March 08, 2014, 12:34:33 PM
Who said there had to be logic involved?
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: JeffB on April 23, 2014, 10:16:46 PM
Like most of you, my biggest issue is I-94 from Ann Arbor to Benton Harbor.  I'm not a regular traveler to Chicago, but I know plenty of people who do drive toward Chicago from Detroit/Ann Arbor/Lansing, and I-94 is infuriating given the truck traffic.

On a more general scale, leaving aside the poor state of the freeways, Michigan got away from building freeways decades ago.  The obsessive and successful campaign by the Free Press' editorial board against the US-23 freeway was bizarre (the freeway would have been inland between Standish and Oscoda, not along the lakeshore).  That's an area that needs better highway access for economic reasons. 

If I was king and had access to transportation revenue, I'd be pushing an aggressive widening (94, 23, 96, 131) and new freeway construction campaign.  US-23 as noted, US-131 from the turnpike up to I-75 near Gaylord, finishing US-127, US-31.  And while this isn't freeway, I'd be looking at building a divided highway across the Upper Peninsula.  Of course that may just be me, when I was a kid I was excited about the idea of M-275 and that's been dead for decades.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: texaskdog on April 24, 2014, 11:56:20 AM
Quote from: GaryV on March 08, 2014, 08:44:15 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on March 05, 2014, 12:26:21 AM
Quote from: GaryV on March 04, 2014, 10:18:03 PM
But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.

I know, but why?  What's the logic in creating a highway that reverses direction?

Not really.  It goes west/east without deviation
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: ET21 on April 24, 2014, 06:30:26 PM
Pavement. Some sections of I-196 and US-131 remind me of Chicago streets, except instead of going 25-30 mph you're doing 65-80 mph trying to dodge those lovely holes of pot
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: US 41 on April 24, 2014, 07:09:21 PM
US 131 not connecting to I-75 in the northern part of the state is my biggest complaint. It should be a freeway all the way. And the 2 mile piece of US 31 that is not complete (and may never be) is my second complaint.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: Crazy Volvo Guy on May 14, 2014, 03:12:38 PM
60mph truck speed.

Which *wouldn't* be a huge deal, as my truck only goes 62, HOWEVER: Everybody and their dog wants to go 61, to my 62.  So, I am slowed down, but I can't pass, which is positively infuriating.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: codyg1985 on June 02, 2014, 07:58:33 AM
As others have mentioned, the lack of a third lane in each direction along I-94 between Benton Harbor and Ann Arbor is a big pain. I also noticed the lack of expressways in Michigan. It is either all (freeway) or nothing (two-lane).

It looks like there was a freeway planned for US 31 north of Ludington from the way the interchange looks. I am honestly surprised there isn't a freeway that connects Traverse City with the rest of the freeway network.
Title: Re: What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?
Post by: texaskdog on June 02, 2014, 08:16:10 AM
Quote from: codyg1985 on June 02, 2014, 07:58:33 AM
As others have mentioned, the lack of a third lane in each direction along I-94 between Benton Harbor and Ann Arbor is a big pain. I also noticed the lack of expressways in Michigan. It is either all (freeway) or nothing (two-lane).

It looks like there was a freeway planned for US 31 north of Ludington from the way the interchange looks. I am honestly surprised there isn't a freeway that connects Traverse City with the rest of the freeway network.

The city that likes congestion?