What are your biggest complaints about the freeway system in Michigan?

[tvketchum]

Of all the experience I've had with MI roads (not that much) I must say the I-96/I-275/M-14 interchange is pretty bad considering how much traffic it appeared to handle. Bad weaving caused by this overworked cloverleaf as well it just seeming to be clogged up for no reason. 96/275 NB was all jammed up, not sure if that was due to the proximity of the 6 mile road interchange or something more north.

I even read up on the Michigan left before going there yet when I encountered one of those signs (the top one http://www.michiganhighways.org/images/MichiganLeftSigns.png ) I was like... WTF?! The fact the line/arrow goes from left to right threw me off, as I didn't know where I currently was really in relation to that sign. Had I encountered that lower sign I'd be much better off. Regardless, I ended up doing a quick and illegal left turn that the intersection and then realized what I just went through

Another thing I don't get in MI are the "No left turn" signs at every on-ramp. What are those signs exactly suggesting? Did people stop at the ramp and turn left or something ridiculous? Seems pretty common sense to keep driving forward and just merge/yield.

Those "no left turn" signs date from the early days of freeways being introduced to a motoring public, who had no reservations about turning left to head the way they want to go, and who did not realized the existence of a divided highway. Overkill in the day, but those have hung on over the years through several sign replacement projects, as they are on the plans.

I 94 presents many challenges to widening and modernizing the highway, but none that several billions of dollars can't overcome....

[Urban Prairie Schooner]

I would guess a lot of the design deficiencies on MI freeways are partly due to the fact that MDOT was an early builder of intercity freeways. IIRC large portions of I-94 were constructed and opened as US 12 freeway prior to 1956. This would also explain the substandard urban alignments. Seems similar to CA which also got a head start on freeway building, and which thus also has antique sections of Interstate (I-5 through south LA county, etc.)

Chris Bessert's website states that the decision to construct freeway alignments for US highways was made after a number of US routes had been improved to expressway standards. This explains the freeway gaps in US 31 and US 127 (formerly 27) among other places.

(In La.'s case, our worst urban freeways were built under the auspices of the Interstate program and are yet still quite substandard.  )

[tvketchum]

Not only the pre-interstate freeways which were grandfathered in, but also the fact that Michigan built most of the rural miles of interstates first, when the design standards were substandard compared to the revisions of the mid 1960s. I-94 though, has the most halmarks of the pre interstate era standards, although MDOT has been nibbling away at the problems over the years. Jackson and Ann Arbor will be the expensive fixes after Detroit. I have often thought the best solution for Jackson would be a new routing north of the existing road, with the current road downgraded to an M X94 kind of highway, maybe a five lane arterial. Ann Arbor maybe a new terrain to the south of the existing road, again, with the current one downgraded to an arterial. Otherwise, both locations would require a lot of ROW aquisitions of businesses and commercial property.

[hobsini2]

Not enough cow bell. lol j/k

[DevalDragon]

The Michigan drivers combined with the poor quality pavement. At least they do a decent job salting in the winter, and the grass between the lanes in Flint on I-75 adds some scenery.

[zzomtceo]

The Michigan drivers combined with the poor quality pavement. At least they do a decent job salting in the winter, and the grass between the lanes in Flint on I-75 adds some scenery.

As I said, MDOT just solves potholes by hoping they fill with snow.

[JREwing78]

I have often thought the best solution for Jackson would be a new routing north of the existing road, with the current road downgraded to an M X94 kind of highway, maybe a five lane arterial. Ann Arbor maybe a new terrain to the south of the existing road, again, with the current one downgraded to an arterial. Otherwise, both locations would require a lot of ROW aquisitions of businesses and commercial property.

There's sufficient ROW, and land immediately adjacent to that ROW, available around both Ann Arbor and Jackson for 8-laning I-94. I'd be shocked if 4 lanes in each direction on either stretch became a bottleneck in the next 100 years.

In Ann Arbor, they'll have to acquire ROW at the Jackson Rd interchange in Ann Arbor to smooth out the curve and avoid the graveyard. They may require a 30' strip on each side of the current ROW to accommodate the additional lanes, but that won't require many, if any, buildings to be taken.

In Jackson, they may also require narrow strips of additional ROW on each side of the existing highway, which is largely available. There may be a couple of short stretches where some homes may have to be taken, and some frontage roads moved around.

But the big deal with Jackson is the expensive bridgework over the Grand River, and replacing/widening the existing overpasses. Some kind of upgrade is also necessary for the west US-127/M-50 interchange. Even if you demote the existing route to a "business route", you're stuck with those expenses, since all of the pavement and bridgework is at End-of-Life, and you can't avoid those expenses with a downgrade in highway designation.

In each location, you'll also have to install noise walls for considerable portions of both sections. But that's not exactly breaking the budget on a full rebuild and widening.

Despite the above, it's still far cheaper (not to mention less likely to invite protests) to upgrade on the existing ROW rather than building on new ROW, particularly if you still have to maintain the old road.

[northernmi]

I agree with others the US-31 gap down by I-94 is a government joke.   Not sure how the Interstate highway system could ever be built today.
Living in western Michigan and traveling US-31 north of Ludington, it's too bad the freeway would not have continued to Traverse City or a the least Manistee.   It will never happen now, but it would have been nice. (Probably a snail-darter in the way)   

[triplemultiplex]

Perhaps we should provide a list of species we are willing to exterminate just to build roads.  That would clear things up.

[silverback1065]

It's down right embarrassing that they haven't fixed 31 at all, and their idea of fixing the gap around Holland is laughable, a worthless super 2?! Spend the money Michigan and fill the gap for real! band-aids aren't the way to go. 

[JREwing78]

It's down right embarrassing that they haven't fixed 31 at all, and their idea of fixing the gap around Holland Grand Haven is laughable, a worthless super 2?! Spend the money Michigan and fill the gap for real! band-aids aren't the way to go. 

Fixed. 

[JREwing78]

OK, here's my biggest complaints about Michigan's freeway system:

- Horribly underfunded. Political cowardice has lead Michigan's leaders to horribly underfund its highways for decades. This season, with the pothole hell this spring will deliver, maybe they'll find the political courage to make the changes in registration fees and fuel taxes required to fix this.

- Delayed 6-laning of major rural freeways. I-96 west of Howell, I-94 west of Ann Arbor, US-23 south of Flint, and US-131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids stand out as most in need of widening. Frequent accidents and traffic delays only show to highlight this need.

- Delayed expressway/freeway upgrades on heavily-trafficked 2-lane corridors. See US-31 north of Ludington, US-127/US-223 south of Jackson, M-53 north of Romeo, and US-131 south of Three Rivers.

[triplemultiplex]

A minor complaint of mine is the amount of space Michigan uses in too many places just to build a diamond interchange. It's as if they envision all these rural, low-traffic interchanges needing loop ramps in the future.  Seems like a waste of land and therefore money to me.

[thenetwork]

The complaint I had about the Michigan Freeway system when I used to drive through it was the fact that they (M-DOT) were very stingy with distance / mileage signs for upcoming interchanges &/or major cities. 
 

[brianreynolds]

OK, here's my biggest complaints about Michigan's freeway system:

- Horribly underfunded. Political cowardice has lead Michigan's leaders to horribly underfund its highways for decades. This season, with the pothole hell this spring will deliver, maybe they'll find the political courage to make the changes in registration fees and fuel taxes required to fix this.

- Delayed 6-laning of major rural freeways. I-96 west of Howell, I-94 west of Ann Arbor, US-23 south of Flint, and US-131 between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids stand out as most in need of widening. Frequent accidents and traffic delays only show to highlight this need.

- Delayed expressway/freeway upgrades on heavily-trafficked 2-lane corridors. See US-31 north of Ludington, US-127/US-223 south of Jackson, M-53 north of Romeo, and US-131 south of Three Rivers.

I agree wholeheartedly.  We used to have a legislature with the will to do the right thing, at least most of the time.  But then, we used to have an electorate who focused on good government.

[texaskdog]

US-12 from M-50 to US-127 should be more than two lanes.  MIS traffic takes forever because all roads leaving there are 2-laned.

My personal pet peeve, which I've mentioned here before, is US-31 should cross the straits of Mackinac and replace M-123's eastern leg to Whitefish Point.

Wouldn't US-23 be more appropriate for that?

[JCinSummerfield]

I really don't see how one is more appropriate than the other.  Both end at I-75 south of the Mackinac Bridge.  I use US-31 to avoid confusion between US-23 and M-123.  What's the reasoning with your answer to use US-23?

[texaskdog]

I really don't see how one is more appropriate than the other.  Both end at I-75 south of the Mackinac Bridge.  I use US-31 to avoid confusion between US-23 and M-123.  What's the reasoning with your answer to use US-23?

23 comes from the SE so is already heading NW.  31 would essentially bounce off 75.  Plus if I remember correctly US 23 would replace M-123 on it's east side, thus causing less confusion. 

My pet peeve is US 41 and US 141 should be flipped, with 141 ending at Marquette.  141 (or 41) should follow 35 up the coast instead of through Powers.  The northern leg is already a US route and the southern is useless except for people who don't pay attention and just follow 41.

[JCinSummerfield]

I don't think 31 bouncing is that bad - after all, there's only one way to the UP from Mackinaw City.  Since 31 is west of 75 for its' entire length in MI, I don't see that as a problem.  The other reason I make 23 a second choice is because of the decision to truncate US-27 right out of MI because of 127.  You would have essentially the same situation with US-23 & M-123.

As far as US-41, it's like someone had their mind made up it would go through Marquette AND travel to the northern most point in MI.  I totally agree with you on switching with 141.

[GaryV]

I don't need US-23 or US-31 to extend into the UP (although historically, US-31 did, up to Rogers Park outside St. Ignace).

But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

[bulldog1979]

But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.

[GaryV]

But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.

I know, but why?  What's the logic in creating a highway that reverses direction?

[JREwing78]

Who said there had to be logic involved?

[JeffB]

Like most of you, my biggest issue is I-94 from Ann Arbor to Benton Harbor.  I'm not a regular traveler to Chicago, but I know plenty of people who do drive toward Chicago from Detroit/Ann Arbor/Lansing, and I-94 is infuriating given the truck traffic.

On a more general scale, leaving aside the poor state of the freeways, Michigan got away from building freeways decades ago.  The obsessive and successful campaign by the Free Press' editorial board against the US-23 freeway was bizarre (the freeway would have been inland between Standish and Oscoda, not along the lakeshore).  That's an area that needs better highway access for economic reasons. 

If I was king and had access to transportation revenue, I'd be pushing an aggressive widening (94, 23, 96, 131) and new freeway construction campaign.  US-23 as noted, US-131 from the turnpike up to I-75 near Gaylord, finishing US-127, US-31.  And while this isn't freeway, I'd be looking at building a divided highway across the Upper Peninsula.  Of course that may just be me, when I was a kid I was excited about the idea of M-275 and that's been dead for decades.

[texaskdog]

But I want to know why the road from Newberry to Paradise wasn't made a northern extension of M-117 rather than a western reverse-direction leg of M-123 when it was added to the highway system?

The highway north of Newberry to Four Mile Corner (where H-37 meets M-123 now) used to be M-117. When M-123 was built, it was extended northward from Eckerman to Paradise and then westward to the Tahquamenon area. The piece of highway built between Four Mile Corner and Tahquamenon was given the M-123 designation and M-117 was truncated to its current terminus west of Newberry.

I know, but why?  What's the logic in creating a highway that reverses direction?

Not really.  It goes west/east without deviation