The Decline of Shopping Malls (http://abandonedonline.net/2015/01/16/decline-shopping-malls/)The American retail landscape is changing. The love affair with the enclosed shopping center peaked about a decade ago and has been waning as consumers seek out revitalized urban centers and mixed-use retail, office and residential developments.
Between 1956 and 2005, approximately 1,500 indoor malls were constructed. Aided in part thanks to the Interstate Highway Act that allowed for the development of 54,000 miles of interstate highways, residents began moving from rural settlements and dense, urban cities to suburban tracts. Whereas shopping was once done in downtowns and neighborhood business districts, roomy shopping centers took their place. Customers could now drive their automobiles to a sea of asphalt and fit their vehicles within generously-sized parking spaces, and then spend their time within an artificial and heated concourse.
Few traditional malls have been constructed in the 21st century, though. The rise of the Internet shopping have been partly to blame, as the convenience of one-click ordering made it easier to acquire hard-to-acquire items, but a physical shift also occurred. Suburban mixed-use developments that incorporated retail, office and residential components became favored, such as Easton Town Center in Columbus, Ohio or Crocker Park in west Cleveland. To an extent, urban projects, such as Pullman Square (http://urbanup.net/cities/west-virginia/huntington-west-virginia/downtown/pullman-square/) in Huntington, West Virginia, have siphoned some of the glitz and attention away from traditional malls. There is also direct competition with newer malls that have caused older facilities to languish and be forgotten, too.
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Randall Park Mall (http://abandonedonline.net/locations/malls-and-shopping-centers/randall-park-mall/) is one of those malls. When it was completed during the mall boom of the 1970's, it boasted its motto, "Much More Than Everything." It boasted five anchors and more than 100 inline stores, and was surrounded physically with other department stores, restaurants and hotels. Randall Park, a rural settlement turned suburban powerhouse, even put an image of a shopping bag into its municipal seal.
But newer developments in newer suburbs began to siphon away business. One by one, retailers left and ownership changed until the mall closed in March 2009. After being in a state of abandonment, demolition began in December 2014. It is to be replaced with an industrial park, arguably more sustainable and tax-producing than a mall, but only time will tell if it will be a success.
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Higbee's/Dillard's
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Sears wing
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JCPenny wing
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Dillard's wing
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General Cinema 3-screen movie theater
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Magic Johnson Theaters
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Even my hometown was not spared. When Cedar Knoll Galleria (http://abandonedonline.net/locations/malls-and-shopping-centers/kyova-mall/) opened in 1989 on the outskirts of Ashland, Kentucky, it's developers boasted that it would become a powerful regional shopping destination. It was a risk that was not well received: Ashland Town Center opened shortly before near downtown.
Cedar Knoll Galleria, never boasting an occupancy above 69%, featured Sears, Elder-Beerman, K-Mart and Phar-Mor as its anchors, but in 2002, Phar-Mor closed all of their stores in the southern United States, including the Cedar Knoll location. K-Mart also pulled out later in the year and was replaced by Artrip's Market and a flea market in late 2004. Inline stores began leaving and in 2014, Sears left. Elder-Beerman is the only major tenant remaining, other than a movie theater that relocated in the former Phar-Mor.
Elder-Beerman
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Former Sears
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Food Court entrance
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Former K-Mart
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Former Sears
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There is no redevelopment proposal for Cedar Knoll, though. It's languishing with a scattering of offices inside, some moribund retailers and some eateries — and while it's not completely devoid of activity, it will never be fully appreciated at what it was once destined for. Far better uses of the building and land could surely be found.
The American retail landscape is changing, and thankfully it is no longer favoring just enclosed shopping malls.
The mall that amuses me is Landmark Mall in Alexandria, Virginia. Google Maps satellite view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8154126,-77.1304096,836m/data=!3m1!1e3
When I was a little kid, it was an outdoor pedestrian mall. Sears at one end, Hecht's at the other, Woodward & Lothrop in between, with the other stores fronting on outdoor walkways. At some point in the 1980s, they converted it to a conventional indoor mall. Sears and Hecht's remained (they both owned their own buildings) and after the Woodies chain went out of business that space became a Lord & Taylor, which has since closed (in part because it's too upscale a retailer for that location). Hecht's became Macy's in 2005 or 2006.
The indoor mall at that location never really succeeded due to competition from other nicer nearby malls and demographic issues (my brother used to be head of loss prevention at Sears there and he said that store is considered "inner-city" due to customer demographics) and now the plan is to turn it back into an outdoor mall along the original lines. Sears and Macy's will stay. Don't know about the Lord & Taylor space. The mall has been dying for years as stores inside close down in preparation for the demolition. I find it somewhat amusing and somewhat pathetic that they want to change it back to the way it used to be.
The pictures of Randall Park Mall in the first post in this thread remind me a lot of the old interior of Springfield Mall near where I live. Strikingly similar-looking interior. Springfield Mall was troubled for years due to crime, stores closing, a weird design, and an apathetic owner. It finally closed (except the three anchors–JC Penney, Macy's, and Target) and it re-opened last fall as "Springfield Town Center." It's still an indoor mall but they have more grandiose plans for the surrounding sea of parking. I have not been there yet. It's only three miles from home, but there's nothing there I feel the need to patronize, and the one movie I've wanted to see in the past few months was not playing at their cinema (the final Hobbit flick; I saw it in Florida instead over Christmas). Big thing is, though, the parking is always jammed whenever I drive past. I don't know if that's a sign of lots of customers or lots of employees due to there being more stores.
I dunno. A lot of malls started out as open-air centers, which were designed to be reliefs from the crowded urban centers that were often portrayed as grimy, dirty and smelly places. The malls were out on the fringes of the city, in the country, where the air was generally cleaner, but most were later enclosed. I'm posting up my Westland Mall in Columbus, Ohio gallery below - it's an example of this, and it too is a dead mall.
I'm a huge advocate of downtown and inner city developments, but even there, retail can struggle. Columbus, Ohio had City Center Mall, anchored by the flagship Lazarus, but it died a fast death after Easton Town Center, an open-air mixed-use development, opened on the far northeast side. More sustainable residential, retail and office space has replaced City Center - and has probably marked the end of the mall concept in downtown.
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Westland Mall (http://abandonedonline.net/locations/malls-and-shopping-centers/westland-mall/)As a child of the 1980's, I recall many memories at the Huntington Mall in Barboursville, West Virginia. With it's beige floor tiles, fountains, wooden oak benches and retro shops, you could spend hours exploring. Shops like the San Francisco Music Box Company, Hickory Farms and Radio Shack were my mainstays. Of course, the Huntington Mall sucked the shopping experience from downtown Huntington into a suburban wasteland, surrounded not by historic buildings but by a sea of asphalt.
The Westland Mall in Columbus, Ohio was similar. Built upon the promise of open-air shopping in suburbia, the mall boasted three anchors and over 40 stores, from stores that peddled drapes to sewing equipment and eccentric clothing.The mall was one of four directionally-named shopping centers in the metropolitan area built in the same time period: Westland, Northland, Eastland and Southland. Westland was later enclosed in the early 1980's.
But the Westland Mall evoked a similar feeling to the Huntington Mall that I remembered as a child. By 2011, Westland was on its deathbed, but it's interior was simply vintage, having never been renovated after it's enclosure. Brown tiles adorned the floor, dark-tinted lights were fastened on the pillars and remnants of stores long gone lined the concourse. There was not a soul inside and for the 30 minutes I walked around, all I could hear was the water dripping from the deteriorated ceiling.
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Several weeks ago, I revisited Westland Mall, only to find it practically boarded up and abandoned. The only tenants that remained were Staples and Sears, both of who have no entrances to the concourse. Boarded up windows cover panes of broken glass at the entrances to the concourse. Inside, sad and pathetic signs on whiteboard tell of a mall with no ATM and restroom facilities. Outside, transformers that once fed into the course lay in pieces, stripped of any valuable metal.
Front entrance in 2011
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Front entrance in 2014
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Sears
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Sears Auto Center
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JC Penny
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Lazarus and later Macy's
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I have posted over 60 historical photos of Westland Mall, but since reposting them here would be a nightmare, I have put a sample of what the shopping center once was.
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Over 100 photos of Westland, and a complete history, at http://abandonedonline.net/locations/malls-and-shopping-centers/westland-mall/
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 21, 2015, 09:16:01 AM
The mall that amuses me is Landmark Mall in Alexandria, Virginia. Google Maps satellite view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8154126,-77.1304096,836m/data=!3m1!1e3
When I was a little kid, it was an outdoor pedestrian mall. Sears at one end, Hecht's at the other, Woodward & Lothrop in between, with the other stores fronting on outdoor walkways. At some point in the 1980s, they converted it to a conventional indoor mall. Sears and Hecht's remained (they both owned their own buildings) and after the Woodies chain went out of business that space became a Lord & Taylor, which has since closed (in part because it's too upscale a retailer for that location). Hecht's became Macy's in 2005 or 2006.
The indoor mall at that location never really succeeded due to competition from other nicer nearby malls and demographic issues (my brother used to be head of loss prevention at Sears there and he said that store is considered "inner-city" due to customer demographics) and now the plan is to turn it back into an outdoor mall along the original lines. Sears and Macy's will stay. Don't know about the Lord & Taylor space. The mall has been dying for years as stores inside close down in preparation for the demolition. I find it somewhat amusing and somewhat pathetic that they want to change it back to the way it used to be.
Seven Corners mall, another inside-the-Beltway shopping mall with roughly similar demographics, went the other way, converting from a two-level mall with interior store entrances, to a bi-level strip mall (upper level facing VA 7, lower facing US 50) with only exterior entrances and the old interior corridors added to the new stores' floor space. The old Woodward & Lothrop (mid-scale department store) became a Shoppers Food grocery store (upper level) and Home Depot (lower level). The Garfinkel's (upper mid-scale department store) that was the anchor at the other end of the old mall also went downscale, with a Ross now occupying the lower level, and an Off Broadway Shoe on the upper level.
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 21, 2015, 09:16:01 AM
The pictures of Randall Park Mall in the first post in this thread remind me a lot of the old interior of Springfield Mall near where I live. Strikingly similar-looking interior. Springfield Mall was troubled for years due to crime, stores closing, a weird design, and an apathetic owner. It finally closed (except the three anchors–JC Penney, Macy's, and Target) and it re-opened last fall as "Springfield Town Center." It's still an indoor mall but they have more grandiose plans for the surrounding sea of parking. I have not been there yet. It's only three miles from home, but there's nothing there I feel the need to patronize, and the one movie I've wanted to see in the past few months was not playing at their cinema (the final Hobbit flick; I saw it in Florida instead over Christmas). Big thing is, though, the parking is always jammed whenever I drive past. I don't know if that's a sign of lots of customers or lots of employees due to there being more stores.
I did a little Christmas shopping at the re-christened Springfield Town Center, and was disappointed at how little it had changed. No reason for me to go back there (not real close to where I live).
That Target is a converted former Montgomery Ward's. It's a bi-level store, with an escalator converted to move shopping carts between levels.
Quote from: oscar on January 21, 2015, 10:16:44 AM
....
That Target is a converted former Montgomery Ward's. It's a bi-level store, with an escalator converted to move shopping carts between levels.
That shopping cart escalator is quite cool and is the best thing about that store. Off the top of my head I do not ever remember seeing anything like it elsewhere. The other Target stores I've been into (only two....the one in Burke and the Super Target in Viera, Florida) are single-level.
I remember when it was Montgomery Ward but I do not remember ever going in there back then. Ward's had another location near Seven Corners on the far side of Route 50 past the traffic light at Patrick Henry Drive. I think it is also a Target now, though I'm not positive–when I was a kid and we lived near Fairfax Hospital, we used Route 50 all the time to get to DC in the days before I-66 and Metrorail, but given where I live now, there's just not much reason to use that road.
Funny thing, there is an abandoned building across the car park from Springfield Mal...errr, Town Center to the west of the Silver Diner along Franconia Road. If you look closely, you can see the outline of the old lettering for the Montgomery Ward HR department. I think the mailbox outside still mentions Ward's as well. (I sometimes go to the bank next door there and I recall noting several indications of the building's old use.) That building has been empty for a LONG time now....
BTW, I remember back in the 1980s when the Prince and Princess of Wales (i.e., Charles and Diana) went shopping at the JC Penney at Springfield Mall. Even as a kid I remember wondering why in the world they would go THERE. Turns out there was some sort of product line by a British designer and they wanted to lend some prestige to it.
Walnut Mall in Petersburg, VA (http://www.labelscar.com/virginia/walnut-mall) has always intrigued me. I remember going there when I was very young, and I've worked at its former site since 2008. It closed in the early 1990s, but stood abandoned until 2006 when it was demolished and partially replaced with a strip mall. Part of the original parking lot is still there, and about half the mall's footprint is now a field.
Here in the Phoenix area we currently have three malls in decline: Desert Sky Mall in the Maryvale neighborhood in Phoenix, Metrocenter Mall in north Phoenix, and Fiesta Mall in western Mesa.
The convenience of the shopping mall has been replaced by the convenience of online shopping. Plus, most of the mall prices were usually near retail. Why? The rental agreement between the merchant and the landlord meant you paid monthly rent plus a percentage of your gross sales.
Malls have ruined life for people in the cities. Why should I have to travel 20 miles out of town just to buy a book or a TV set?
I vouch to say that malls in Montana in particular haven't ruined lives per se, but there have been times where some hood rat or redneck drunk roam parts of the mall and reek havoc on the place to the point where people have chosen a different way to shop, a la the online method. The Southgate Mall in Missoula is definitely seeing change, though it isn't declining per se, because that's really the bulk of Missoula County's annual income on top of some other known businesses. The city of Missoula and Missoula County would take a big hit if we lost the Southgate Mall to something else other than online shopping.
Quote from: ZLoth on January 21, 2015, 01:43:49 PM
The convenience of the shopping mall has been replaced by the convenience of online shopping. Plus, most of the mall prices were usually near retail. Why? The rental agreement between the merchant and the landlord meant you paid monthly rent plus a percentage of your gross sales.
Only 6% of retail purchases take place online, even today. There are also many different types of mall leases that exist.
North Jersey's malls don't seem to have a problem. Its likely due to the population density. South Jersey is a different story. Retail vacancies in strip malls are high however (this is a nationwide problem). Many of them are completely empty with leasing companies unwilling to rehab them or still charging high rents. Retail blight doesn't last long though as land is valuable and there isn't much empty space left to build on, so stuff actually gets knocked down and redeveloped.
Down in NC, I see tons of new retail construction despite existing buildings laying vacant. There is one strip mall near my uncle's that was built in 2007, but has stood empty to this day except for one tenant. During that time at least 3 more large shopping centers were built nearby, none of them fully leased.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 01:46:00 PM
Malls have ruined life for people in the cities. Why should I have to travel 20 miles out of town just to buy a book or a TV set?
Conversely, why should people have to travel downtown and fight traffic and compete for limited parking?
Another reason why new malls aren't being constructed as well as some malls being converted to 'strip' malls (what many of us used to call
shopping centers) can be blamed on the skyrocketing heating & cooling costs that occurred within the last 10 years.
Those atrium spaces & corridors of those closed malls that the OP posted as well as those of other malls, I'm sure costed a bundle to heat and/or cool.
One small mall near me, the MacDade Mall, has been converted to a strip mall a few years ago. A proposal to turn the old mall into an upscale establishment shopping complex literally crashed & burned a few years ago when it was realized that there weren't any potential upscale partons (read
Yuppies) in the immediate area.
There's also off-and-on rumors regarding whether the Granite Run Mall in Media (Middletown Twp.), Delaware County, PA will close (to make way for an expanded Riddle Hospital complex) or not.
Personally, I'm surprised that the Tri-State Mall in Claymont, DE hasn't closed down yet. That place always seems to be dead in terms of customers. A far cry from what it was 20 years ago.
Suburban malls aren't the only malls in decline. After years of decline, the Gallery Mall in Center City Philadelphia adjacent to the Reading Terminal Market, the Pennsylvania Convention Center, SEPTA's Jefferson (formerly Market East) Regional Rail Station, two SEPTA Market-Frankford subway and one PATCO station; is slated to be transformed into a more upscale shopping establishment.
As a means of purging many of the older-established business tennants (for more upscale business tennants); the property owner drastically raised the rents resulting in several vacant and would-be vacant spaces within the last month or so.
For colony of merchants, Gallery makeover is painful (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/homepage/20150121_For_colony_of_merchants__Gallery_makeover_is_painful.html)
QuoteIn November, the Gallery's owners, the Pennsylvania Real Estate Investment Trust and the Macerich Co., began to tell dozens of merchants that they would have deadlines to leave - some by the end of December, others at the end of January or February.
Transformation is in the offing, they say, combining high-end shops and residential, part of the planned remake of what had become the tired Market Street East retail corridor.
...
Whatever business reasons there are for changes at the Gallery - and some are long overdue at the city's largest mall - a world is ending.
One question that I or others might ask, where are these high-end shops or customers going to come from? The adjacent Lits building (on 7th & Market Sts.)
still has had vacancies since the recession began.
Further down:
QuoteBut Carlos Morales, 75, eats there every day, nursing a dollar cup of coffee from McDonald's. On Tuesday, he had lunch with a friend he met four years ago in the food court. As far as the friend is concerned, the makeover can't come soon enough.
"Basura," trash, he sneered. Drugs, prostitution, noisy schoolkids fighting, people sleeping.
Folks drift in from the methadone clinic across the street.
This morning, while walking from Jefferson Station to work (I go through the Galley to/from the sation and where I work whenever I take the train); I heard & saw one guy (possibly a vagrant) yelling at the top of his lungs being lead out/prodded by 3 and then later 4 security guards. One guard actually held a canister of pepper spray and was ready to use it.
The perp yelled to the guards,
"GO AHEAD, SPRAY ME!"Not sure whether or not the guard did such (I was further away from them at the time); but that's one issue that most Gallery partons will
not miss.
Obviously some malls are thriving. Tysons Corner Center is a fine example of that. I think it will be interesting to see how things change there due to the arrival of Metrorail service last summer. I've seen multiple reports suggesting shoplifting has increased, for example. At the Pentagon City mall (across I-395 from the Pentagon), the department stores have long used cable locks to secure items such as blue jeans. I wonder if that sort of thing will become routine at Tysons.
The main things that make or break a mall financially are the presence of middle-to-upper-class middle age, married women with children in the area. If you're not getting them you're done.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 21, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
North Jersey's malls don't seem to have a problem. Its likely due to the population density.
Yes and no. The demands on malls have changed even where they haven't ebbed, and this leaves some malls, notably the smaller ones, perpetually reinventing themselves to stay current.
The Fashion Center, once the smallest but most upscale of Paramus's four large malls, went into a steady decline once its lowbrow but much larger competitor Garden State Plaza enclosed and started creeping upscale (eventually doubling in size). Fashion Center finally inside-outed and became a string of big-box discounters. As Bergen County got richer, the market for "elite" was just too big for a comparatively tiny mall.
Middle-class Paramus Park has lost a lot of the eclectic charm that made it a major draw, and it has been struggling since the turn of the century to expand and reinvent in a market where it somehow now feels constrained and limited.
The languishing Bergen Mall, always the lowest-brow of Paramus, zeroed in on desirable chains that weren't in Paramus yet–Target, Century 21, and in a return to past times where supermarkets were common at malls, Whole Foods. It seems to be a raging success.
And Garden State Plaza still churns on as immense as ever, as does Palisades Center a few miles north over the state line, because immense is apparently where the baseline is now. Even in North Jersey, those that can't be 2,000,000 sq. ft. have to find a special niche to compete for the scraps.
Tysons Corner is an interesting case, as they are applying the principles of urban development in a suburban setting. Some of the more recent developments include the phased implementation of a street grid and lower density streets, the retrofitting of walkable and bicycle-friendly streets in an automobile-centric development, and the phased implementation of urban and dense developments - especially closer to the rail station. That will help Tysons Corner Center survive in the long-run, whereas other centers are declining because of a variety of reasons.
Many suburban malls often fail because of several factors:
a) Newer shopping centers open up or older centers are redeveloped/renovated;
b) An anchor or two leave, causing a cascading effect on mainline, Class A tenants. Replacement tenants often pay a lot less in rents/percentages and are often Class B/C tenants;
c) Demographic shifts or shifts in traffic patterns;
d) Just not needed (see Cedar Knoll Galleria above).
I was in Cleveland a lot last year for work and they have three malls failing or failed. Randall Park Mall is the most obvious of those due to its size and sudden decline, but Euclid Square Mall on the suburban east side is also dead. It's now home to 20+ churches but has no anchors. It needs major work, both cosmetically and structurally, and it's long-term viability is in doubt. Churches, after all, are not huge money makers in most cases. You can also add Richmond Town Square, which is losing a major tenant and has bled mainline tenants for a few years now - despite major renovations earlier in the decade. On the west side is a failed shopping center due to Wal-Mart pulling out (and moving to a slightly newer center). To the south is a never-finished and failed shopping center due to structural problems. To the east are vacant shopping centers in a part of the suburban fabric that never became built out and was overbuilt commercially.
Toledo, OH used to have a slew of malls -- all but one remain:
- Franklin Park Mall -- The lone survivor, opened in the mid-late 70s.
- Woodville Mall -- Opened mid 60's, closed 4-5 years ago -- torn down.
- Southwyck Mall -- Opened late 60s-early 70s -- closed 4-5 years ago -- torn down.
- NorthTowne Square -- Opened late 70s-early 80s -- closed mid-late 90s -- abandoned.
Meanwhile, over in Cleveland, the only enclosed malls that still have a somewhat strong pulse are:
- Great Northern Mall
- South Park Mall -- the last enclosed mall to be built
- Beachwood Place -- an upscale mall.
Those that have been razed, abandoned or converted to outdoor "life centers""
- Parmatown -- currently in conversion mode
- Westgate Mall -- converted in mid 00's
- Euclid Square -- largely abandoned, some parts still in use.
- Randall Park -- currently in tear-down mode, as mentioned above.
The following are on life support:
- Midway Mall
- Richmond Town Square -- Macy's just announced their closing there.
- Great Lakes Mall
And down in Akron, of the 3 malls, Summit Mall was near extinction in the 90s, but is now the strongest mall. Chapel Hill is close to closing, and Rolling Acres Mall -- the last to be built in the 70s -- is now the poster child of dead & abandoned malls nationwide.
One interesting dead mall, the Dixie Square Mall outside of Chicago, had the honor of being the only mall that stood abandoned longer than it was actually in business. It was used in the Blues Brothers mall-wrecking scene around 1980, and the mall had just recently been closed by that time after less than 15 years in business. It stood vacant & abandoned until it was finally torn down within the last couple of years or so.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 21, 2015, 04:22:25 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 01:46:00 PM
Malls have ruined life for people in the cities. Why should I have to travel 20 miles out of town just to buy a book or a TV set?
Conversely, why should people have to travel downtown and fight traffic and compete for limited parking?
Just live near enough to downtown that you don't have to drive.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 01:46:00 PM
Malls have ruined life for people in the cities. Why should I have to travel 20 miles out of town just to buy a book or a TV set?
20 miles? You need to move to a better city.
Northland Mall in Southfield, north of Detroit with the closure of Macy's is on the death knell. Ironic to see that mall opened by Hudson's stores, was the beginning of the decline of the big Hudson's store in downtown Motown.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?19658-Northland-Macy-s-targeted-for-closure
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20150107/BLOG014/150109908/macys-plans-to-close-northland-center-store-says-southfields-acting
Northland Mall was built in the early-to-mid 1950s and had even some atomic shelter
http://curbed.com/archives/2014/06/11/how-the-cold-war-shaped-the-design-of-american-malls.php
http://www.michigancivildefense.com/northlandcentermallsouthfield.html
Yes, the Gallery Mall in Philadelphia sure does need a makeover! Despite that, I go there every time I'm in Center City (I'm from central CT).
The Providence Place Mall in RI is at least three levels. Four if you count the top areas with the IMAX movie theater. I believe it opened in 1999. It's right next to I-95, with the state capitol and the Amtrak station a short distance away.
The hoity-toity mall in greater Hartford is definitely WestFarms Mall. The one thing it lacks is a food court, probably not something anybody thought of when it opened in 1974 (I'm usually across the street at Red Robin anyways). The place seems to thrive, however. It's on busy New Britain Avenue (CT Route 71), with both I-84 and CT Route 9 close by. The Corbins Corner shopping plaza has been across the way from it seemingly forever.
I haven't been to the Buckland Hills Mall in Manchester in years.
I've only been to Westfield Shoppingtown, a.k.a. Meriden Square Mall twice in the last two years. That, despite the fact that the city bus to it runs right past my house every half hour. They have a so-so food court on the second level. They recently lost their JC Penney anchor. I think it was the only CT location to close.
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 21, 2015, 04:50:31 PM
Suburban malls aren't the only malls in decline. After years of decline, the Gallery Mall in Center City Philadelphia adjacent to the Reading Terminal Market, the Pennsylvania Convention Center, SEPTA's Jefferson (formerly Market East) Regional Rail Station, two SEPTA Market-Frankford subway and one PATCO station; is slated to be transformed into a more upscale shopping establishment.
I remember the Gallery well - My mother used to take me over on PATCO from NJ for an afternoon walking the Gallery and adjacent stores (early 80s). It was more because I enjoyed the train ride, than anything particular about the Gallery since we had plenty mall-wise in NJ. Mostly I wanted to walk the underground concourses and ride the subways. I remember the expansions to the west and the new Market East station, which was pretty neat for a kid to watch the trains come and go through the big glass windows on the ticketing level (I think it's time to look for AATrains).
Closer to where I live now, the Seaview Square Mall near Asbury Park tried to compete with the nearby Monmouth Mall in Eatontown (both your typical enclosed malls). Not long before its demise, I remember it being a complete ghost town with most of the stores closed. Those that were open were unusual for a somewhat modern looking mall - I believe there was a radio station, I think maybe a church, etc. - whatever they could get in there to pay the rent. Eventually they tore down the mall, leaving the two anchors, Sears and Value City (also now closed), and jammed in a Target and your other typical strip mall stores in its place.
Another trend I'm seeing locally is the development of additional free standing stores, or even entire strip malls, in mall parking lots. Lets face it, some of these places have WAY too much parking even when they are extremely busy. Seems that 60's planners over estimated parking. Things got more reasonable at newer malls.
Whats odd is that popular malls seem to have the smallest parking lots and are stuck with parking decks. Menlo Park Mall and Short Hills Mall in NJ come to mind. The worst I've dealt with is the Crabtree Valley Mall (or as I like to call it, the Crabby Tree Valley Mall) in Raleigh, NC. The spots in that deck are tiny and ingress egress out of the mall parking lot is a PITA!
I was an frequent shopper at Springfield Mall Montgomery Wards. I remember it changing to Target. My wife was unfamiliar with Target at the time. So she told me she wanted to go to O Target I had no idea of what she was talking about. After I figured out what she was talking about I told that was not an O and the O was not part of the name. She kept ask ing me what the O was and I kept telling her it was a TARGET
Also there is two level Target in Eagle Rock CA that has the same shopping cart escalator. So I dont think it is unique to Springfield Mall
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 21, 2015, 03:54:51 PM
North Jersey's malls don't seem to have a problem. Its likely due to the population density. South Jersey is a different story. Retail vacancies in strip malls are high however (this is a nationwide problem). Many of them are completely empty with leasing companies unwilling to rehab them or still charging high rents. Retail blight doesn't last long though as land is valuable and there isn't much empty space left to build on, so stuff actually gets knocked down and redeveloped..
??
In terms of indoor malls, most in South Jersey are doing very well. The Echelon Mall, which had no easy highway access (actually, all roads leading to it were two lane roads) was revamped a decade ago. And the Cumberland County mall is losing a JC Penney soon, which is more a JC Penney issue than a mall issue. But otherwise, South Jersey Malls aren't any different of a story compared to North Jersey.
Metrocenter Mall in Jackson has been on the decline for the better part of 20 years. The decline accelerated in the last 15 or so. In the mid-2000s, Burlington Coat Factory moved in, but hasn't generated enough traffic to stop the bleeding. The city has moved some government offices to the Metrocenter, but its impact is yet to be determined. However, just before Thanksgiving, it was reported that Metrocenter was sold to a new owner, and the new owner plans significant improvements. Click here (http://m.wapt.com/news/metrocenter-mall-sold-improvements-planned/29800716) for the link.
I was surprised to learn that the Seaview Square Mall in Asbury Park, NJ is now gone. That one I thought would never go even if Asbury Park has gone ghetto, as this Mall was west of Route 35.
In Kissimmee, Florida the Osceola Square Mall is now Plaza Del Sol as the Osceola Square Mall went down hill when that part of US 192 it was on stopped being a tourist area years ago as well as the rise of apartment complexes nearby. The new owner of the mall is trying now to cater to the locals more and went for a Spanish theme because most of Kissimmee now is Hispanic. We'll see how this one works out. Not to mention that nobody still took over the former Bealls Store that was anchored on the west end of the mall. It has been vacant for several years now.
Quote from: thenetwork on January 21, 2015, 07:03:04 PM
...Rolling Acres Mall -- the last to be built in the 70s -- is now the poster child of dead & abandoned malls nationwide.
Growing up, we went to that mall quite a bit. As a kid at Christmastime, I rode that train around the fountain countless times. There was nothing about going to the mall I didn't like. Then in the 90s for reasons I didn't know at the time, we stopped going there and went to Belden Village Mall in Canton any time we needed to go to the mall. Later on I found out why, but that didn't stop me from going there in the late 90s when I got my license and my own wheels. I think it was early 1999 when I started going back there again. At that time, the mall wasn't as vibrant as it used to be, but there were still a fair amount of stores inside, including a store that sold vintage memorabilia (I ended up buying a couple of old traffic lights from there, one of which I still have). After my wife and I married in 2003, we still made trips to the mall for movies, Penney's, or to hit the food court. Walking through at that time was so eerie because of the deathly quietness of the mall. Never did I feel unsafe at the mall, but the damage had been done by then. We moved away in 2007 and I was saddened to hear that it closed for good in 2008. I got some photos in 2012...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/busman_49/sets/72157632037428120/
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 21, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
The main things that make or break a mall financially are the presence of middle-to-upper-class middle age, married women with children in the area. If you're not getting them you're done.
Also, the old axiom of real estate: location, location, location. Let's also include management here as well. I live in a town where the mall is 98% occupied, is well managed, and is at the junction of a major road and a freeway. It also has bus routes connecting it to other parts of town.
Chicagoland's strongest malls are:
Woodfield
Oakbrook Center
Old Orchard
Louis Joliet Mall
Fox Valley
Orland Square
Hawthorn
Southlake
Others that seem to be performing well:
Harlem-Irving Plaza
Lincolnwood Town Center
Northbrook
Yorktown
Chicago Ridge Mall
Ford City
These are dying (usually due to location and management):
Charlestowne Mall
Stratford Square
River Oaks
I'm not including Lincoln Mall as it just closed. A classic case of mismanagement as it is in a great location.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 21, 2015, 11:03:31 PMAnother trend I'm seeing locally is the development of additional free standing stores, or even entire strip malls, in mall parking lots.
See my earlier post. From an operations standpoint, free-standing stores and strip malls are easier (& cheaper) to heat & cool because there's no enclosed corridors nor atriums to heat/cool. It's a more energy efficient design.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on January 21, 2015, 11:03:31 PM
Lets face it, some of these places have WAY too much parking even when they are extremely busy. Seems that 60's planners over estimated parking. Things got more reasonable at newer malls.
One must remember that back in the 60s (at least until 1964-65), the population was
still, by and large, growing. As a result, the planners likely based the number of parking spaces for future growth on then-current population growing trends.
Back then, nobody expected the drop in birthrates, skyrocketing energy prices (w/long gas lines) and the double-digit inflation that would take place during the following decade.
Another mall that I'm personally surprised is still around, this one's in Downtown Salem, MA; is the Museum Place Mall (formerly the East India Square Mall). That mall seemed to be struggling since it opened in the mid-to-late 70s.
The problem with that mall has been its location. There's no major highways nearby, mass transit is predominantly busses not to mention parking issues early on. While the Commuter rail station's a short walk from the mall; it's very convoluted.
Not to mention that the fact that parking wasn't always free. During the daytime hours, one had to pay to park in either the surface lot or the parking garage.
The strongest malls in the Seattle area is by far Southcenter and then Bellevue Mall. Northgate is definitely declining.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 22, 2015, 03:47:57 PM
The strongest malls in the Seattle area is by far Southcenter and then Bellevue Mall. Northgate is definitely declining.
Northgate is being hit by University Village for higher-end shops, and Target and Best Buy that opened in the block north of Northgate Mall for the lower-end shops.
Yep a lot seem to be closing.
Next to online shopping I like the enclosed malls during cold or hot weather. I never was much of a mall goer even when I was young when malls were the rage. I only went if I had too (wife and three daughters) or really needed something only to be found there.
One time during the hot Texas summer a buddy and I spent the entire afternoon in the mall just watching the girls and waiting to go to a Rangers baseball game that evening since we had checked out of our hotel to save money. I know that mall, very nice it its day, was having crime trouble a few years later so it is probably closed now.
Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 22, 2015, 03:47:57 PM
The strongest malls in the Seattle area is by far Southcenter and then Bellevue Mall. Northgate is definitely declining.
Northgate is being hit by University Village for higher-end shops, and Target and Best Buy that opened in the block north of Northgate Mall for the lower-end shops.
I live in East Greek Row overlooking U Village, and it's always bustling. Is it considered a mall?
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 22, 2015, 04:33:05 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2015, 04:07:42 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 22, 2015, 03:47:57 PM
The strongest malls in the Seattle area is by far Southcenter and then Bellevue Mall. Northgate is definitely declining.
Northgate is being hit by University Village for higher-end shops, and Target and Best Buy that opened in the block north of Northgate Mall for the lower-end shops.
I live in East Greek Row overlooking U Village, and it's always bustling. Is it considered a mall?
I don't see why not. Single private owner for the mall, an indoor pedestrian-only core surrounded by parking. Are you wondering because of the few additional shopping areas across the parking lot from the main mall?
The opening of the Patrick Henry Mall in 1987 and the rise of nearby big box stores in the subsequent decade marked the start of the decline of all of the other malls on the Peninsula, with Newmarket Fair closing to become office space in the late nineties, and with Coliseum being razed in the winter of 2007. It now mostly competes with 'lifestyle centers' such as Peninsula Town Center (which rose from the ashes of Coliseum Mall). However, it still does good business, and the surrounding area is a traffic nightmare during the holidays.
This is an interesting site I came upon after a discussion about this very subject.
I remember a few of the California ones on here.
http://deadmalls.com/ (http://deadmalls.com/)
Quote from: Sherman Cahal on January 21, 2015, 06:15:02 PM
Many suburban malls often fail because of several factors:
a) Newer shopping centers open up or older centers are redeveloped/renovated;
b) An anchor or two leave, causing a cascading effect on mainline, Class A tenants. Replacement tenants often pay a lot less in rents/percentages and are often Class B/C tenants;
c) Demographic shifts or shifts in traffic patterns;
d) Just not needed (see Cedar Knoll Galleria above).
There's also
e) A perceived increase in the mall's crime rate, whether justified or not (news reports sometimes blow an otherwise isolated incident out of proportion)
f) Not being located in proximity to a freeway. And by this I mean having convenient access to said highway. Look at Eastgate Mall in Chattanooga, TN, practically on top of the I-75/I-24 split. Physically, it may have been right there, but to get to it you had wend around a couple of miles of surface roads -- remember, this was in pre-GPS days. To be fair, though, the fact that Hamilton Place opened a few miles up I-75 didn't help either, as it was both visible from the highway AND had its own off-ramp.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on January 23, 2015, 01:26:13 PM
This is an interesting site I came upon after a discussion about this very subject.
I remember a few of the California ones on here.
http://deadmalls.com/ (http://deadmalls.com/)
They don't update nearly as much as they used to, I was following them since the early aughts but in the last three years or so they've let things slide.
Another site, Labelscar, apparently hasn't had new material since mid 2013.
The emergence of new dead or dying malls has slowed in the teens. If a mall makes it to the end of 2015 with 70+ percent occupancy of major tenants and anchors it's probably going to be good for a while. The wheat has been separated from the chaff. This round of Sears and JCP closings is going to wipe out the marginal malls.
The saddest are the inner-city dead malls. The perfect encapsulation of that phenomenon is Peabody Place in Memphis, for which several square blocks of Downtown street grid were destroyed. It only opened in 2001, and was completely closed by 2012. :ded:
Three vacated malls in the Palm Springs area: the Palm Springs Mall (now a college), Desert Fashion Plaza (I believe it's demolished) and my hometown's Indio Fashion Mall (totally emptied). Due to economic conditions, Wal-marts, dollar stores and online shopping (at least the money goes to the store, but retail employees won't be needed) drove many middle-class shoppers away from malls...and ever rising high rents kept most small shop owners from starting businesses in malls. I have good memories of the Palm Desert Town Center, now Westfield Shoppingtown Palm Desert, a great place in the summer (A/c cool) and the winter (the desert resort's season), but it's gotten too expensive over the years and I stopped going there for any reason.
Quote from: wphiii on January 23, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
The saddest are the inner-city dead malls. The perfect encapsulation of that phenomenon is Peabody Place in Memphis, for which several square blocks of Downtown street grid were destroyed. It only opened in 2001, and was completely closed by 2012. :ded:
Worcester, Mass., the type and size of city that usually killed their downtown with an open-air pedestrian mall, saw its downtown enclosed mall thrive in the 80s, dry up in the 90s, get reinvented and reinvigorated then closed and torn down. The formerly chopped-up street grid is now being reconnected, and most traces of the mall removed.
Sadly, I don't think the mall was the problem. By the end of the 80s, people didn't want to go downtown (the newer mall a few miles north thrived for this reason). This is the reason countless improvement efforts failed, and why I have doubts about the new development.
In Orlando the former Beltz factory Outlet Mall was two indoor malls along with a third strip mall. Now its the Prime Factory Outlets, and the original 3 buildings torn down replaced now with one large outdoor mall.
I do not know if that was the change in ownership that caused that or a change in culture as people in my neighborhood used to say that outdoor malls are in and indoor malls are out now.
One thing about outlet malls they do not need anchors to hold them in place as everything is just small store name brand outlets unlike the big malls that need a Sears and JC Penney to hold it down.
BTW, what is going to become of Miracle City Mall in Titusville, Florida? I see it being razed now.
Outdoor malls are out when it's hot or cold. They're in when it's nice. One advantage indoor malls have is the lack of doors on the stores. Even if the door is open, people are still more likely to randomly stroll into a store with no doors.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 27, 2015, 09:25:37 PM
Outdoor malls are out when it's hot or cold. They're in when it's nice. One advantage indoor malls have is the lack of doors on the stores. Even if the door is open, people are still more likely to randomly stroll into a store with no doors.
Its funny you mention doors as the producers of Married With Children put a door on Al Bundy's Shoe Store which is inside an indoor mall.
Also when Woodbridge Center Mall opened in 1972, Abraham & Strauss had useless doors mounted to the old style glass sliding doors that got traded in for the shutters that many mall stores use nowadays. I have no idea why those doors were on it, when they were never used do to the fact the sliding doors they were attached to were always opened and when the doors were closed so was the store.
Another story is the former Menlo Park Mall in Edison, NJ, design before the current one built in 1991, had doors to the stores only because originally Menlo Park Mall was an outdoor facility. All they did was enclose the mall that was already there and not touch the buildings that housed the stores.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 27, 2015, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 27, 2015, 09:25:37 PM
Outdoor malls are out when it's hot or cold. They're in when it's nice. One advantage indoor malls have is the lack of doors on the stores. Even if the door is open, people are still more likely to randomly stroll into a store with no doors.
Its funny you mention doors as the producers of Married With Children put a door on Al Bundy's Shoe Store which is inside an indoor mall.
Also when Woodbridge Center Mall opened in 1972, Abraham & Strauss had useless doors mounted to the old style glass sliding doors that got traded in for the shutters that many mall stores use nowadays. I have no idea why those doors were on it, when they were never used do to the fact the sliding doors they were attached to were always opened and when the doors were closed so was the store.
Another story is the former Menlo Park Mall in Edison, NJ, design before the current one built in 1991, had doors to the stores only because originally Menlo Park Mall was an outdoor facility. All they did was enclose the mall that was already there and not touch the buildings that housed the stores.
^^ Are you positive that the shoe store was in an indoor mall? I was always led to believe that it was in a Pedestrian Mall (similar to the Boulder music store on Mork & Mindy).
When the upscale Jacobson's Department Store was still in existence at the Franklin Park Mall in Toledo, the indoor mall entrance had a set of two big wooden doors one must open to enter. Again, because they tried to cater to the clientele of nearby Ottawa Hills, the swank suburb of Toledo 2 miles south of the mall on Tallmadge Road.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 27, 2015, 09:38:48 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 27, 2015, 09:25:37 PM
Outdoor malls are out when it's hot or cold. They're in when it's nice. One advantage indoor malls have is the lack of doors on the stores. Even if the door is open, people are still more likely to randomly stroll into a store with no doors.
Its funny you mention doors as the producers of Married With Children put a door on Al Bundy's Shoe Store which is inside an indoor mall.
I have no choice but to think about this kind of stuff. I own a store in a mall for a living.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 27, 2015, 05:01:47 PM
In Orlando the former Beltz factory Outlet Mall was two indoor malls along with a third strip mall. Now its the Prime Factory Outlets, and the original 3 buildings torn down replaced now with one large outdoor mall.
I do not know if that was the change in ownership that caused that or a change in culture as people in my neighborhood used to say that outdoor malls are in and indoor malls are out now.
One thing about outlet malls they do not need anchors to hold them in place as everything is just small store name brand outlets unlike the big malls that need a Sears and JC Penney to hold it down.
BTW, what is going to become of Miracle City Mall in Titusville, Florida? I see it being razed now.
It's going to be an outdoor "lifestyle center" with several parts being used by Parrish Hospital. The final green light came when Titusville decided to pay for the new water system late last year.
And here it was when I first moved here that I (and a lot of other folks) thought Searstown Mall was going to be the one that was going to die, now it's the one mostly occupied (a recent renovation helps, but if Sears goes tango uniform in the next few years it won't help).
Quote from: wphiii on January 23, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
The saddest are the inner-city dead malls. The perfect encapsulation of that phenomenon is Peabody Place in Memphis, for which several square blocks of Downtown street grid were destroyed.
Is it just me, or does Ohio have more than its share of these?
In 1989, downtown Columbus opened the grandiose, 3-level City Center Mall a block south of the State Capitol. It was anchored by the city's debuts of Jacobson's from Michigan and Kaufmann's from Pittsburgh, plus it had an overhead crosswalk (complete with inline stores!) to connect over High St. to the flagship Lazarus dept. store.
But it was all demolished 20 years later (I think one of the parking garages built for the mall still stands). It didn't help that Jacobson's closed and no store replaced it, nor did the closure of the flagship Lazarus in '04. What may have really hurt was the opening of 3 upscale malls near Interstates north of town: lifestyle center Easton Town Center (I-270 just south of Morse Rd.), The Mall at Tuttle Crossing (I-270 south of the US-33/OH-161 exit), and the huge Polaris Fashion Place (I-71, about 2 miles north of I-270). Talk about it helping malls being near the freeway? I think each of these interchanges were privately funded by the mall developers, except Tuttle Crossing, which IIRC was financed by a software company with adjacent offices!
In the early 1980s, downtown Toledo opened Portside, a "festival marketplace" that was wildly popular in its first several years. I'd heard of people coming from as far as Detroit to visit. But by the '90s, it all closed. Not sure why, maybe the novelty wore off (Rouse opened several malls with the festival marketplace model around this time). The Portside structure was used as a science museum for a time afterwards.
In 1980, downtown Dayton opened Arcade Square, a mall-ification of a turn-of-the-century indoor farmers' market. Its only anchor was McCrory, though they had a huge food court. It closed in the early '90s; one reason may have been that its best customers, downtown office workers, were vacating the city for office parks along the Interstate corridors.
Even Middletown had an early attempt at a downtown mall, City Centre Mart (http://city%20centre%20mart%20http://deadmalls.com/malls/city_centre_mart.html), in large part because of another mall that is (surprise!) near the Interstate. CCM was demolished in 2001.
Anyone know how the downtown malls in Cincinnati and Cleveland are doing?
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 29, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Anyone know how the downtown malls in Cincinnati and Cleveland are doing?
Cincinnati has a downtown mall???
Quote from: bandit957 on January 29, 2015, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 29, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Anyone know how the downtown malls in Cincinnati and Cleveland are doing?
Cincinnati has a downtown mall???
HAD...
now in transition to a parking garage
http://archive.cincinnati.com/article/20140108/NEWS010801/301070158/Tower-Place-mall-gets-new-name-purpose
Quote from: busman_49 on January 29, 2015, 04:18:13 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on January 29, 2015, 03:35:11 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 29, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Anyone know how the downtown malls in Cincinnati and Cleveland are doing?
Cincinnati has a downtown mall???
HAD...
now in transition to a parking garage
http://archive.cincinnati.com/article/20140108/NEWS010801/301070158/Tower-Place-mall-gets-new-name-purpose
I don't think I ever heard of this place. Except once it was mentioned on the police scanner, and I thought it was some out-of-the-way suburban shopping center.
Newport (KY) has a downtown mall, called Newport on the Levee, which opened around 2001. I don't think they call it a mall, but it really is a mall. I hardly ever go there, since it's mostly upscale specialty stores. They don't sell many things that people might actually buy, like groceries and toilets.
There used to be something in downtown Newport called the Newport Mini Mall, but I barely remember it. Apparently, it was a very, very small mall that fit within a city block. This was maybe in the '70s, and it didn't last long.
Meanwhile, in the surrounding states Indianapolis still has a decent downtown mall with Circle Centre. It opened in 1996 and is still alive and kicking today. While it isn't the most successful of malls there's still around 100 shops and one major anchor, originally there were two anchors with that one closing (a Nordstorm) and later on becoming the new headquarters of the Indianapolis Star. I have heard that compared to its twin in Columbus, Circle Centre was better connected to the hotels and Convention Center and football stadium which is one of the main reasons it has survived, more convention traffic. As opposed to the Columbus mall which was south of the statehouse (I've seen the new park built there) while all the convention stuff was to the north in the Arena District. There may come a time when Circle Centre falls off but it's not this day. In Indy, Eastgate is the dead, dead mall and Lafayette Square is the close-to-dead mall with Washington Square a little ways off, but downtown, that's still doing well.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 29, 2015, 04:26:59 PMThey don't sell many things that people might actually buy, like groceries and toilets.
Oh yes, every few days I have to go shopping for toilets. :rofl:
I believe you meant
toiletries.
Funniest typo for 2015... thus far.
The malls actually in San Francisco (the larger San Francisco Centre/Westfield complex, the venerable Stonestown Galleria, and smaller specialty zones like the Japantown mall and Crocker Galleria) have been doing well for years. In the suburbs, Tanforan in San Bruno near SFO and Daly City's Serramonte have also operated for decades successfully, as has the more upscale Hillsdale in San Mateo.
The one dead mall in San Mateo County I can think of would be Fashion Island (home of the ice rink where Kristi Yamaguchi learned to skate) which I saw decline year after year in the early 90s before basically being the ice rink and not much else; it was replaced with the Bridgepointe open-air power center some time ago.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 29, 2015, 05:03:29 PM
Meanwhile, in the surrounding states Indianapolis still has a decent downtown mall with Circle Centre.
Ironically, downtown Indy had its day in the sun with a "festival marketplace" beforehand. Remember the old Indianapolis Union Station? That place was huge. I particularly liked the upstairs food court where the floor tiles were laid out in (presumably) the locations of where the station tracks used to be. I guess the novelty wore off there like at many of the other festival marketplaces, since it now appears to be a hotel and private conference center of some sort.
In Columbus, at least a decade before the City Center Mall opened, the old Union Station there was all but demolished :no:, and replaced with the "Ohio Center" -- a Hyatt hotel atop a gridwork of conference rooms and ballrooms, along with some mall-like retail. Eventually the stores gave way to more conference facilities as the convention center finally appeared to the north, across the (now-freight-only) tracks. (I think the food court is still in place.) But now, conventioneers have all the shopping they want along High St. in the "Short North" district, including on that "cap" they built across I-670. There's also the not-exactly-a-mall North Market nearby.
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 29, 2015, 01:36:03 PM
Quote from: wphiii on January 23, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
The saddest are the inner-city dead malls. The perfect encapsulation of that phenomenon is Peabody Place in Memphis, for which several square blocks of Downtown street grid were destroyed.
Is it just me, or does Ohio have more than its share of these?
In the early 1980s, downtown Toledo opened Portside, a "festival marketplace" that was wildly popular in its first several years. I'd heard of people coming from as far as Detroit to visit. But by the '90s, it all closed. Not sure why, maybe the novelty wore off (Rouse opened several malls with the festival marketplace model around this time). The Portside structure was used as a science museum for a time afterwards.
Anyone know how the downtown malls in Cincinnati and Cleveland are doing?
^^ Portside in was installed as Toledo was seeing a revitalization of the Downtown area. With the Owens-Corning building being built, the convention center and 2 new downtown hotels in the 80s, there was hope that downtown was going to make a comeback. The problem with Portside was that all the non-food stores that were there were independent, non-chain stores that were glorified specialty mall-kiosk stores and that there was no convenient parking -- most parking required using pedestrian tunnels and/or skywalks for at least a couple of blocks -- and parking rates were not too inviting.
The downtown renaissance was over by 1990 when Portside closed down and any new building in downtown Toledo had ceased, except for a new indoor arena and new home for the Toledo Mudhens baseball farm team. Currently, there are several large buildings of note in downtown Toledo that have closed up completely, are nearly empty, or have been foreclosed on and are going into rapid disrepair.
Last I heard in Cleveland, The Galleria was still pretty much dead and Tower City was still hanging on, thanks to the Horseshoe Casino setting up shop in the former Higbee's Department Store. But Tower City is still a far cry from it's heyday when they had such trendy national chain stores as Barneys, Disney Store & the Warner Brothers Store.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 29, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
They don't sell many things that people might actually buy, like groceries and toilets.
Unless you did mean to say "toiletries", I take that you were referring to the idea that the mall doesn't sell practical merchandise, but mostly frivolous items. A Ninja-Turtle-themed Koosh ball might be something someone wants, but not an item really needed. This may have been the undoing of many of the "touristy" malls. As for buying toilets, remember that Family Circus comic in which they're shopping in the, ahem, interior plumbing department of some unnamed store, and a look of sheer horror on Thel's face as she runs and yells:
"P.J.! NO! IT'S NOT CONNECTED!!!"
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 23, 2015, 02:18:43 PM
e) A perceived increase in the mall's crime rate, whether justified or not (news reports sometimes blow an otherwise isolated incident out of proportion)
This
absolutely led to the demise of Landover Mall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Mall), located in the northwest quadrant (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=route+202+%26+Brightseat+road,+landover+md&hl=en&ll=38.920288,-76.857058&spn=0.006611,0.011233&sll=38.893596,-77.014576&sspn=0.423264,0.718918&hnear=Maryland+202+%26+Brightseat+Rd,+Hyattsville,+Maryland+20785&t=m&z=17) of the interchange of I-95 (Capital Beltway) and Md. 202 (Landover Road) in Prince George's County.
Now the garden apartments that were the source of much of the criminal activity (real and perceived) across Brightseat Road from the site of the mall are being torn down. Several of the garden apartment units were burned by the local fire companies as part of training activities.
Then there's the case of Georgetown Park mall in the District of Columbia in the middle of Georgetown on the southwest corner of Wisconsin Avenue and M Street, N.W., since "repurposed" as more of a "discount" mall.
This was a decidedly upscale mall, located in the midst of the upscale Georgetown area of D.C. I think its demise (including foreclosure) was due to several things:
(1) No easy access to the Metrorail system (that matters in a downtown area like Georgetown);
(2) Difficult to get to by private automobile (and all parking was pay parking);
(3) A considerable walking distance from the campuses of Georgetown University and George Washington University, sources of customers and part-time employees; and
(4) Unable to compete with malls like Pentagon City and Clarendon across the Potomac River in Arlington County, Va, both with reasonably easy Metro access and much better access for private automobiles.
Anyone heard a track by Steely Dan entitled "The Last Mall," on the 2003 Everything Must Go (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everything_Must_Go_%28Steely_Dan_album%29) disc?
Very relevant to this thread.
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2015, 07:18:39 PM
Last I heard in Cleveland, The Galleria was still pretty much dead and Tower City was still hanging on, thanks to the Horseshoe Casino setting up shop in the former Higbee's Department Store. But Tower City is still a far cry from it's heyday when they had such trendy national chain stores as Barneys, Disney Store & the Warner Brothers Store.
I'm kind of surprised more casinos haven't set up shop in dead malls. It seems like the large, vacant building would make for an excellent match, especially since you can reuse the existing food court and parking facilities. Turn an anchor into a poker room, use a few storefronts for offices/cash cage/vault, and cover the rest with slot machines.
Quote from: lepidopteran on January 29, 2015, 07:44:20 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on January 29, 2015, 04:26:59 PM
They don't sell many things that people might actually buy, like groceries and toilets.
Unless you did mean to say "toiletries", I take that you were referring to the idea that the mall doesn't sell practical merchandise, but mostly frivolous items. A Ninja-Turtle-themed Koosh ball might be something someone wants, but not an item really needed. This may have been the undoing of many of the "touristy" malls. As for buying toilets, remember that Family Circus comic in which they're shopping in the, ahem, interior plumbing department of some unnamed store, and a look of sheer horror on Thel's face as she runs and yells:
"P.J.! NO! IT'S NOT CONNECTED!!!"
The Family Circus gets a bit weird when you realize Jeffy grew up and is the one writing the strip now...
Today's Washington Post has a story about malls and how some will always continue to thrive while others have to evolve. (I occasionally go to Landmark Mall, mentioned in the story, but only to go to Sears or the Sears Auto Center.)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/capitalbusiness/the-fall--and-overhaul--of-the-american-mall/2015/01/30/cf9f05f4-a650-11e4-a7c2-03d37af98440_story.html?hpid=z4
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 31, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2015, 07:18:39 PM
Last I heard in Cleveland, The Galleria was still pretty much dead and Tower City was still hanging on, thanks to the Horseshoe Casino setting up shop in the former Higbee's Department Store. But Tower City is still a far cry from it's heyday when they had such trendy national chain stores as Barneys, Disney Store & the Warner Brothers Store.
I'm kind of surprised more casinos haven't set up shop in dead malls. It seems like the large, vacant building would make for an excellent match, especially since you can reuse the existing food court and parking facilities. Turn an anchor into a poker room, use a few storefronts for offices/cash cage/vault, and cover the rest with slot machines.
In New Jersey, they're turning a casino into a college, so why not?
When the Nanuet (N.Y.) Mall went into a steep spiral following the opening of the immense Palisades Center nearby, I was amazed at the way new kinds of businesses colonized the space. There was a local photographer's portrait studio, a miniature golf course, a computer repair place, and even a radio station. Still, this only filled about 25% of the mall, which existed in this moribund state only long enough for the plans to be approved to tear it down.
Nanuet's story surprised me a little. The Palisades Center is big, to be sure–one side features a Target on top of a Best Buy on top of a Home Depot–but it's too big to get in and out quickly. Nanuet was a manageable size. I guess convenience is measured more in term of one-stop shopping than efficiency. Of course, lower-tax New Jersey (which unlike New York doesn't tax clothes) is two miles away, and Paramus a few miles further in, so the market's tolerance is low.
What happened to the Landover Mall in Landover, MD? I read that it got leveled completely including Sears, who was not razed due to the fact they owned the land that their store stood on.
That used to be a booming mall and a place to stop at traveling I-95 through that area is now gone totally.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 01, 2015, 02:27:30 PM
What happened to the Landover Mall in Landover, MD? I read that it got leveled completely including Sears, who was not razed due to the fact they owned the land that their store stood on.
That used to be a booming mall and a place to stop at traveling I-95 through that area is now gone totally.
cpzilliacus mentioned it a few posts up this thread. Crime, plus the anchors went out of business except for Sears. Hecht's, Garfinckel's, and Woodies were the other three anchors. Garfinckel's went under and wasn't replaced. Woodies went under and was replaced by JC Penney but it flopped (as did the Penney's in the old Woodies space at Tysons.....Penney's is just a far lower-class store than Woodies was). Hecht's closed because they opened a new store at a different location nearby.
With three anchors gone, the mall closed. Sears owned their building (this is pretty common) and stayed on but eventually closed last year. There's been some discussion of putting the new FBI headquarters there, though it seems less likely than the Greenbelt site not too far away.
I actually did walk to Landmark Mall on a regular basis when I lived in an adjacent apartment complex. It was kind of unsafe to walk there across Duke St. but hell I was 25.
The Downtown Mall in Sacramento is now being converted into New Kings stadium and its only a few blocks from the state capitol on L Street.
Now in some places such as San Francisco the Downtown areas Such as SOMA, Financial District, At&t park are doing ok and their shopping areas are ok. But the income politics are crazy out there.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinsons_Malls
I noticed that there is a group of malls in the Philippines named Robinsons but the problem here is that its not related to the Los Angeles stores that used to exist in Southland malls with the same name.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinsons_May
Here is the Los Angeles version.
We have a dying mall here in Jackson called Metrocenter, at the intersection of I-220 and U.S. 80. This mall opened in 1978 as the state's largest mall. It all but killed off the Jackson Mall, near the center of the city. The opening of Northpark Mall in Ridgeland in 1984 was the final blow for the Jackson Mall, which has since been repurposed as a "medical mall".
Back to Metrocenter, it was rather thriving even after Northpark opened. However, white flight, changing demographics and crime perception slowly began eating away at Metrocenter. Another big blow was Dogwood Festival Market in Rankin County after its 2002 opening. Metrocenter today boasts very few stores. The ones that are there are mainly athletic wear (Foot Locker, Champs, etc.) and foreign-owned local clothing & jewelry stores. Even then, there are more empty spaces, especially at the lower level. From what I was told, the empty lower level was because potential lessees were told that the mall would be redeveloped with residential lofts. This has never occurred.
The fact that the city of Jackson relocated some offices to a former department store, a Burlington Coat Factory moved in 2007, and new ownership about to take over is the only reason a wrecking ball and dynamite hasn't been applied to it.
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
I'd still rather buy clothes where I can see them. Colors look different in person than on a monitor, and I like to check fit. Having things sent requires waiting and you have to know what you want, although the stores that just sell sealed boxes don't let you tell very much about the products either.
Online and brick and mortar stores both have their uses.
Best Buy is the most vulnerable, but will compete if they can keep excited people walking out the door with a TV they can watch today.
Bed Bath and Beyond's relationship with Christmas Tree and Harmon is either saving it or killing it–I can't quite figure out what is happening in there, but it's chaotic.
Petco should go out of business. Messy stores, high prices, poor selection. Petsmart should buy them, shut the redundant locations, and be done with it.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
Considering that online shopping is a very small percentage of sales, I'd say no. Although, I much prefer Petsmart to Petco. As for Best Buy, it's Target and Walmart that are killing it, not online sales.
How many big-box retailers have gone under in the Internet era? The ones I can think of are Circuit City and Linens N Things, but even those two relaunched as online retailers. I also remember Comp USA and a store called HQ.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
I don't think Best Buy is a dying business model; I just think they need to react more quickly to today's needs. I like the fact that the majority of their sales aren't commission based, so you don't get what you get at HH Gregg or Toyota: Sharks that won't leave your side for a moment, and will tell you whatever they think will get you to buy the product. But, they need to figure out how to get their staff energized and interested in helping the customer, and they need to keep their store stocked with stuff that people will be willing to take home with them.
BB&B, Petco, etc: More than likely, these are stores that people aren't going to spend time researching the product. While I can save substantial money buying a TV via the internet, I'm probably not going invest the time to go to BB&B to look at kitchen gadgets, bed sheets or doggie toys, only to go home and buy them online (or stand in the store and order them on my phone).
A rebuilt shopping center near me is basically an all-eggs-in-one-basket mall: Bed, Bath & Beyond, Christmas Tree Shops, and That!, Harmon Face Values and buybuy BABY, which are all Divisions of Bed, Bath & Beyond, Inc.
QuoteHow many big-box retailers have gone under in the Internet era? The ones I can think of are Circuit City and Linens N Things, but even those two relaunched as online retailers. I also remember Comp USA and a store called HQ.
I'm sure there are more, but another that comes to mind is Montgomery Ward.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2015, 11:08:09 AM
QuoteHow many big-box retailers have gone under in the Internet era? The ones I can think of are Circuit City and Linens N Things, but even those two relaunched as online retailers. I also remember Comp USA and a store called HQ.
I'm sure there are more, but another that comes to mind is Montgomery Ward.
There are tons of general-merchandise retailers that fell over a recent ten-or-so-year period, but those seemed to be in part due to the growth of Walmart and Target, who operate at a scale affording much steeper discounts. Same with the building supply/home improvement business. There were a lot of chains in that field twenty years ago, but not anymore.
Quote from: golden eagle on February 05, 2015, 10:46:17 AM
How many big-box retailers have gone under in the Internet era? The ones I can think of are Circuit City and Linens N Things, but even those two relaunched as online retailers. I also remember Comp USA and a store called HQ.
Borders is the one that most quickly comes to mind.
HQ and Builders Square were two big-box home improvement stores that went out in the 90s, so really before internet shopping reached the masses.
Tweeter is another one that comes to mind. I think they had more than just a New England presence, although they were Massachusetts-based.
Quote from: kkt on February 04, 2015, 01:23:13 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
I'd still rather buy clothes where I can see them. Colors look different in person than on a monitor, and I like to check fit. Having things sent requires waiting and you have to know what you want, although the stores that just sell sealed boxes don't let you tell very much about the products either.
Online and brick and mortar stores both have their uses.
I also prefer this, though I do order business shirts from a place in London. I prefer to buy clothes in person not just for checking the fit but also because I can look over the seams for loose stitching, check for holes, etc. Yes, if you order online and it arrives damaged you can send it back, but that's a hassle and it means you don't have the clothes for that much longer.
Regarding Tweeter, they had some stores here in the DC area too. There was one at Bailey's Crossroads across the street from Borders. I think it's now a Panera. I went into Tweeter once but didn't see anything I couldn't find at more familiar stores.
The outdoor amphitheatre in Camden, New Jersey, was called the Tweeter Center. I don't know what it's called now. We saw the surviving members of the Who play there the summer John Entwistle died.
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 11:31:25 AMThe outdoor amphitheatre in Camden, New Jersey, was called the Tweeter Center. I don't know what it's called now.
It's now called the Susquehanna Bank Center. It originally opened in 1992 as the E-Centre.
Coincidentally, during the Tweeter Center years; the amphitheatre in Mansfield, MA was also called the Tweeter Center. It was originally known as Great Woods (when it opened in the 1980s) and is now called the Comcast Center.
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 11:31:25 AMThe outdoor amphitheatre in Camden, New Jersey, was called the Tweeter Center. I don't know what it's called now.
It's now called the Susquehanna Bank Center. It originally opened in 1992 as the E-Centre.
Coincidentally, during the Tweeter Center years; the amphitheatre in Mansfield, MA was also called the Tweeter Center. It was originally known as Great Woods (when it opened in the 1980s) and is now called the Comcast Center.
Comcast actually changed the branding last year; it is now called the Xfinity Center. I avoid all that nonsense by continuing to call it Great Woods.
Quote from: spooky on February 05, 2015, 01:10:30 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 05, 2015, 12:12:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 05, 2015, 11:31:25 AMThe outdoor amphitheatre in Camden, New Jersey, was called the Tweeter Center. I don't know what it's called now.
It's now called the Susquehanna Bank Center. It originally opened in 1992 as the E-Centre.
Coincidentally, during the Tweeter Center years; the amphitheatre in Mansfield, MA was also called the Tweeter Center. It was originally known as Great Woods (when it opened in the 1980s) and is now called the Comcast Center.
Comcast actually changed the branding last year; it is now called the Xfinity Center. I avoid all that nonsense by continuing to call it Great Woods.
Me too, but mostly because I can't remember what it (or the former Harborlights Pavillion) are called from one year to the next.
What was Tweeter? I wanna make sure I'm not confusing them with Harris Tweeter.
Quote from: golden eagle on February 05, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
What was Tweeter? I wanna make sure I'm not confusing them with Harris Tweeter.
Electronics store.
Quote from: spooky on February 05, 2015, 01:33:36 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on February 05, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
What was Tweeter? I wanna make sure I'm not confusing them with Harris Tweeter.
Electronics store.
Specifically and especially, car and home audio. Harris Teeter is a higher-tier grocery store owned by Kroger, and, last time I checked, is doing rather well.
In York, PA, we recently saw the closure of the West Manchester Mall, which is being converted into a traditional shopping center. WM's death was allegedly due to the early 90s opening of the Galleria in East York which gradually stole the stores. JCPenney just closed their Galleria store, so I wonder if we'll see a long drawn out death for the Galleria as well. A new shopping center with a Chipotle, Best Buy, Christmas Tree Shops, and a whole bunch of other stores opened a few years ago across US 30 from the Galleria. West Manchester was also done in by a similar conversion of the old Delco Plaza Mall into a big-box haven center complete with Giant Food, Lowe's, Chili's, Panera, etc. Delco is on the same side of PA 74 but across US 30 from WM. With the conversion, Delco actually stole WM's Giant-Carlisle location (which was in an unattached annex)
Some say the death knell for WM was when Walmart rebuilt the store at the end of the mall as a Supercenter and closed off the mall entrance from the store. You had to walk the whole way around outside to access the mall. As a kid, we used to go to WM a few times a month on Friday nights, so I was sad to see it go, but it was long past its glory days.
York has actually had many malls, at least 3 I can think of, that were converted to shopping centers at one time or another. York city has 40,000 people but draws shoppers from Maryland as well.
Those pics are insanely awesome... How did you get in?!
http://articles.philly.com/2015-01-22/news/58310898_1_market-east-station-gallery-mall-preit
Yep...the Gallery Mall sucks a big one now. I was there today (February 6th) and at least 1/3 of the place is gone, including the Chick-Fil-A in the food court and a newsstand/PA Lottery agent elsewhere in the mall.
Here are some of the latest shots of Akron's abandoned Rolling Acres Mall:
http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/features/2015/02/09/snow-fills-abandoned-rolling-acres-mall/23118053/ (http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/features/2015/02/09/snow-fills-abandoned-rolling-acres-mall/23118053/)
There is now several inches of snow in some of the areas which used to have glassed-in skylights.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 05, 2015, 11:01:50 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
I don't think Best Buy is a dying business model; I just think they need to react more quickly to today's needs. I like the fact that the majority of their sales aren't commission based, so you don't get what you get at HH Gregg or Toyota: Sharks that won't leave your side for a moment, and will tell you whatever they think will get you to buy the product. But, they need to figure out how to get their staff energized and interested in helping the customer, and they need to keep their store stocked with stuff that people will be willing to take home with them.
I've read several anecdotes from people who worked at Circuit City and CompUSA during the commissioned-salesperson timeframe that said that when the commissions were eliminated, all of the motivated, knowledgeable sales staff took off for greener pastures. They were replaced by the caliber of employee that you see in Best Buy today. That meant Circuit City and CompUSA were nothing special and so they lost enough business that they had to fold.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 31, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2015, 07:18:39 PM
Last I heard in Cleveland, The Galleria was still pretty much dead and Tower City was still hanging on, thanks to the Horseshoe Casino setting up shop in the former Higbee's Department Store. But Tower City is still a far cry from it's heyday when they had such trendy national chain stores as Barneys, Disney Store & the Warner Brothers Store.
I'm kind of surprised more casinos haven't set up shop in dead malls. It seems like the large, vacant building would make for an excellent match, especially since you can reuse the existing food court and parking facilities. Turn an anchor into a poker room, use a few storefronts for offices/cash cage/vault, and cover the rest with slot machines.
Too many of the states that allow casinos require them to be in the water - Indiana has that requirement, and Mississippi did pre-Katrina. The actual gaming area is the boat; the hotel, theater, restaurants, etc. are on the shore.
iPhone
From Albany, NY Times Union:
No checks, no payments, no powerQuoteDilruba Koli sat at her perfume kiosk in the darkened Rotterdam Square Mall on Thursday, waiting for a customer who had called saying they were coming in to pick up something. Everything around her was shuttered and dark, even the post office.
But unpaid power bills by the mall owner, Kohan Retail Investment Group, led to electricity being shut off in the mall that morning by National Grid to the surprise of business owners and their workers. The lights were still off later that day, with National Grid spokesman Patrick Stella saying the utility was still "in negotiations" with Kohan.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/15p)
Quote from: ZLoth on February 14, 2015, 02:57:28 AM
From Albany, NY Times Union:
No checks, no payments, no powerQuoteDilruba Koli sat at her perfume kiosk in the darkened Rotterdam Square Mall on Thursday, waiting for a customer who had called saying they were coming in to pick up something. Everything around her was shuttered and dark, even the post office.
But unpaid power bills by the mall owner, Kohan Retail Investment Group, led to electricity being shut off in the mall that morning by National Grid to the surprise of business owners and their workers. The lights were still off later that day, with National Grid spokesman Patrick Stella saying the utility was still "in negotiations" with Kohan.
FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://markholtz.info/15p)
I like the last line in the article:
QuoteOn Kohan's company website, there is a listing for Northland Mall, which leads to a page containing nothing but gibberish.
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
I see the one mall in Clearwater, Florida at the intersection of FL 60 and US 19 has been leveled for a bunch of strip malls.
I am guessing that the nearby mall a few miles north of there at US 19 and FL 580 was too much competition for them to handle.
Quote from: Zeffy on February 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
That's disappointing. I was hoping someone who took Latin and/or Pig Latin could translate so I could hear what appears to be an exciting narrative about gorillas, gratuitous octopi and souvlaki.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on February 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
That's disappointing. I was hoping someone who took Latin and/or Pig Latin could translate so I could hear what appears to be an exciting narrative about gorillas, gratuitous octopi and souvlaki.
I had 4 years of it in high school and I have a serious case of CRS when it comes to Latin. I tried a couple of Latin to English translators and they kept spitting back a mixture of English and Latin gibberish not worth reposting here.
Quote from: slorydn1 on February 14, 2015, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on February 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
That's disappointing. I was hoping someone who took Latin and/or Pig Latin could translate so I could hear what appears to be an exciting narrative about gorillas, gratuitous octopi and souvlaki.
I had 4 years of it in high school and I have a serious case of CRS when it comes to Latin. I tried a couple of Latin to English translators and they kept spitting back a mixture of English and Latin gibberish not worth reposting here.
"Lorem ipsum" originally comes from "De finibus bonorum et malorum," a work on moral philosophy written by Cicero. The problem is that over the years the "lorem ipsum" text has slowly been corrupted into pretty much gibberish. For example, the "lorem" comes from "delorum" which means pain.
This just in; the plans to de-mall the Granite Run Mall in Middletown Twp., Delaware County, PA (near the US 1/PA 352 jct., west of Media) are getting closer to becoming reality.
With 'de-malling,' a new look for Granite Run (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150215_Bid_to__de-mall__Granite_Run__and_turn_it_into_a_town_center.html)
QuoteThe best way to turn around the struggling mall, according to its owners, is to demolish it.
What was once a classic suburban mall will be reborn as something more classically urban.
Outdoor courtyards will replace the traditional mall structure as it becomes a town center with retail stores, restaurants, and luxury apartments.
...
Sears and Boscov's, the mall's anchor tenants, will remain open during construction, as structures are demolished around them.
It almost sounds like they're trying to mimic the
Main Street Exton (Chester County) complex just off PA 100 that was built circa 2000-2001. Although some of those stores are now vacant due to the dismal economy and the onslaught of the internet.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 15, 2015, 07:26:24 PM
Quote from: slorydn1 on February 14, 2015, 02:21:17 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on February 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
That's disappointing. I was hoping someone who took Latin and/or Pig Latin could translate so I could hear what appears to be an exciting narrative about gorillas, gratuitous octopi and souvlaki.
I had 4 years of it in high school and I have a serious case of CRS when it comes to Latin. I tried a couple of Latin to English translators and they kept spitting back a mixture of English and Latin gibberish not worth reposting here.
"Lorem ipsum" originally comes from "De finibus bonorum et malorum," a work on moral philosophy written by Cicero. The problem is that over the years the "lorem ipsum" text has slowly been corrupted into pretty much gibberish. For example, the "lorem" comes from "delorum" which means pain.
Regardless of its meaning, this text in this use is a creation of the print world, co-opted by web publishers. It was used in newspaper layout to fill a space whose article had not yet been made ready for print.
Quote from: Zeffy on February 14, 2015, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 14, 2015, 12:43:54 PM
Here's the page....anyone care to translate?
http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall (http://kohanretail.com/index.php/northland-mall)
In the web design world, "Lorem ipsum..." is a phrase that designers like to use as placeholder content. Some editors even have a Lorem Ipsum generator to fill a page with content.
Google Translate pulled a few phrases out:
Quote
... and a great idea for directory submission service. That's why for this article, I will come, who will ... advantage from it receives the information in order pill. ... and no layer of hatred and the righteous man, ...
... and so ad nauseum. Souvlaki is pure: Rats out of many, one. Defacto lingo is igpay atinlay. I do not want the select Marquee is not the provision of the incongruous feline contendre. Gratuitous octopus niacin, sodium glutimate. Thus, the time runs away Esperanto hiccup of estrogen. Notify me librus hup hey to the infinite. It is not easy, and it follows the condominium Geranium Incognito. ... Souvlaki is pure: Rats out of many, one.
Li this text box otherwise you are ... science, music, sport, etc., as many 'Europe USA li sam vocabulary. ...
... the grammar of the resulting language ... than a regular text box otherwise. ... me than a friend, you are a skeptic Cambridge.
The Souvlaki is Pure.
Rats out of many, one.
Rats out of many, one.
Rats out of many, one.
Rats out of many, one.
The purpose of the lorem ipsum text is to force you to focus on the presentation of the page. If it contained English text, even gibberish like "Thus, the time runs away Esperanto hiccup of estrogen." most people would automatically start reading the text and be distracted from the page layout.
Most page layout programs contain automatic lorem ipsum generators. Microsoft Word has one–type =lorem() into a document and press enter.
I have a friend who has a linguistics degree and is fairly fluent in Latin, and lorem ipsum text drives them nuts.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 17, 2015, 06:25:15 PM
The purpose of the lorem ipsum text is to force you to focus on the presentation of the page. If it contained English text, even gibberish like "Thus, the time runs away Esperanto hiccup of estrogen." most people would automatically start reading the text and be distracted from the page layout.
Most page layout programs contain automatic lorem ipsum generators. Microsoft Word has one–type =lorem() into a document and press enter.
I have a friend who has a linguistics degree and is fairly fluent in Latin, and lorem ipsum text drives them nuts.
Heh. When I was an editor at my college newspaper, our operations manager was a classics major and I had taken six years of Latin. He decreed the use of "This is text this is text this is text. (Etc.)" because the Lorem ipsum thing annoyed him so much.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/france-takes-amazon/
The French bookstore takes on a battle with Amazon.com for Books.
If I had to make a prediction, I would say this. The future of indoor shopping malls in America is going to come down to this: only the large regional malls that have "destination stores" will survive (such as Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, IL, Mall of America in Minneapolis, etc), and the other malls will go out of business in favor of outdoor "lifestyle" centers, strip malls or nothing at all.
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 16, 2015, 09:08:38 AM
This just in; the plans to de-mall the Granite Run Mall in Middletown Twp., Delaware County, PA (near the US 1/PA 352 jct., west of Media) are getting closer to becoming reality.
With 'de-malling,' a new look for Granite Run (http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150215_Bid_to__de-mall__Granite_Run__and_turn_it_into_a_town_center.html)
QuoteThe best way to turn around the struggling mall, according to its owners, is to demolish it.
What was once a classic suburban mall will be reborn as something more classically urban.
Outdoor courtyards will replace the traditional mall structure as it becomes a town center with retail stores, restaurants, and luxury apartments.
...
Sears and Boscov's, the mall's anchor tenants, will remain open during construction, as structures are demolished around them.
It almost sounds like they're trying to mimic the Main Street Exton (Chester County) complex just off PA 100 that was built circa 2000-2001. Although some of those stores are now vacant due to the dismal economy and the onslaught of the internet.
Well, that blows. I remember shopping there and being pleased that it wasn't nearly a clusterfuck as the King of Prussia Mall complex.
Quote from: adamlanfort on February 22, 2015, 06:36:24 PM
If I had to make a prediction, I would say this. The future of indoor shopping malls in America is going to come down to this: only the large regional malls that have "destination stores" will survive (such as Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, IL, Mall of America in Minneapolis, etc), and the other malls will go out of business in favor of outdoor "lifestyle" centers, strip malls or nothing at all.
One of the main problems with strip malls today is that their foot traffic is pretty spotty unless they have a Wal-Mart. And Wal-Mart these days seems to prefer building on their own rather than as part of a strip mall. This lack of foot traffic is why you've seen shopping leave strip malls and being replaced with errands (hair salons, nail shops, cell phone stores, dry cleaners, dog groomers), offices, churches, pizza delivery/takeout and fast casual food. Stores NEED other stores, not errands where everyone is in a hurry. Also, stores in strip malls get broken into a lot whereas that's not a problem in the enclosed mall. Strip malls aren't suitable for our company at this time unless they are EXTREMELY busy and are full of shopping stores, not H&R Block offices that sit empty 10 months of the year. They also must have 24 hour security patrols... most don't. We would also have to have special events 2-3 times a week which are exhausting and increase labor cost.
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 22, 2015, 09:24:29 PM
Quote from: adamlanfort on February 22, 2015, 06:36:24 PM
If I had to make a prediction, I would say this. The future of indoor shopping malls in America is going to come down to this: only the large regional malls that have "destination stores" will survive (such as Woodfield Mall in Schaumburg, IL, Mall of America in Minneapolis, etc), and the other malls will go out of business in favor of outdoor "lifestyle" centers, strip malls or nothing at all.
One of the main problems with strip malls today is that their foot traffic is pretty spotty unless they have a Wal-Mart. And Wal-Mart these days seems to prefer building on their own rather than as part of a strip mall. This lack of foot traffic is why you've seen shopping leave strip malls and being replaced with errands (hair salons, nail shops, cell phone stores, dry cleaners, dog groomers), offices, churches, pizza delivery/takeout and fast casual food. Stores NEED other stores, not errands where everyone is in a hurry. Also, stores in strip malls get broken into a lot whereas that's not a problem in the enclosed mall. Strip malls aren't suitable for our company at this time unless they are EXTREMELY busy and are full of shopping stores, not H&R Block offices that sit empty 10 months of the year. They also must have 24 hour security patrols... most don't. We would also have to have special events 2-3 times a week which are exhausting and increase labor cost.
I noticed this starting in the 90's in Florida; first with Wal-Mart, then Eckerd (now CVS) and Walgreens started moving into standalone stores...but for some strange reason Publix is now bucking the trend and building their new stores as part of a mini-strip mall concept (which works or doesn't work depending on where they put it).
Quote from: DeaconG on February 22, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 16, 2015, 09:08:38 AM
This just in; the plans to de-mall the Granite Run Mall in Middletown Twp., Delaware County, PA (near the US 1/PA 352 jct., west of Media) are getting closer to becoming reality.
Well, that blows. I remember shopping there and being pleased that it wasn't nearly a clusterf#*k as the King of Prussia Mall complex.
Agree. The reasons why I use either the Springfield Mall (which is staying) and/or the Granite Run Mall are because both of them are closer to where I live (southern Delaware County), and were
not in King of Prussia.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/22/mall-of-america-tightens-security-terror-threat/23839301/
Dang now Malls are getting attention as Terrorist targets. Woah who knows?
Quote from: wphiii on January 23, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
The saddest are the inner-city dead malls. The perfect encapsulation of that phenomenon is Peabody Place in Memphis, for which several square blocks of Downtown street grid were destroyed. It only opened in 2001, and was completely closed by 2012. :ded:
Well, if by "several blocks" you mean "one block of Gayoso Avenue."
The main issue is that Beale Street draws off the sort of store mix it needed to be successful; when it had a few good restaurants, you could sustain the foot traffic, but there's no good reason to open a restaurant in a mall when you've got Beale two blocks away. Plus Memphis just doesn't have the downtown population a lot of other cities do and PP isn't at a transportation hub either.
Quote from: bing101 on February 23, 2015, 10:43:42 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/22/mall-of-america-tightens-security-terror-threat/23839301/
Dang now Malls are getting attention as Terrorist targets. Woah who knows?
Target should have given their name more careful consideration.
Maybe we can confuse these people into targeting the abandoned malls.
The big mall here in the Appleton area has those very attractive to bad guys 'Come in and raise h***' (AKA, 'No weapons allowed') signs on all of their doors and parking lot entrances.
Step one - LOSE THOSE SIGNS! The law-abiding public, especially in today's climate of popular concealed-carry, is a *formidable* security force in its own right and is remarkably effective in protecting itself and any property within its view. Make the most of it!
Mike
In the movies...
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 23, 2015, 12:00:59 PM
In the movies...
Someone at DHS needs to put the Tom Clancy books (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Teeth_of_the_Tiger) down.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
The big mall here in the Appleton area has those very attractive to bad guys 'Come in and raise h***' (AKA, 'No weapons allowed') signs on all of their doors and parking lot entrances.
Step one - LOSE THOSE SIGNS! The law-abiding public, especially in today's climate of popular concealed-carry, is a *formidable* security force in its own right and is remarkably effective in protecting itself and any property within its view. Make the most of it!
Mike
So you can have some guy who may or may not have a gun losing his shit at a cashier because she won't honor an expired coupon?
Anyone who's worked a service job knows that customers are capricious, petty things. Inviting them to bring their gun to your workplace doesn't exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence that the gun will be used against a terrorist (how often do you have those, anyway?) rather than against you because they're a customer that wants to get into a pissing match with a store clerk over a sale or a refund or something (which happens daily).
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2015, 02:40:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
The big mall here in the Appleton area has those very attractive to bad guys 'Come in and raise h***' (AKA, 'No weapons allowed') signs on all of their doors and parking lot entrances.
Step one - LOSE THOSE SIGNS! The law-abiding public, especially in today's climate of popular concealed-carry, is a *formidable* security force in its own right and is remarkably effective in protecting itself and any property within its view. Make the most of it!
Mike
So you can have some guy who may or may not have a gun losing his shit at a cashier because she won't honor an expired coupon?
Anyone who's worked a service job knows that customers are capricious, petty things. Inviting them to bring their gun to your workplace doesn't exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence that the gun will be used against a terrorist (how often do you have those, anyway?) rather than against you because they're a customer that wants to get into a pissing match with a store clerk over a sale or a refund or something (which happens daily).
I imagine the issue is that somebody, with the intent to provoke harm towards others, probably cares little about rules to begin with. Most people will not enter a no-guns zone with a gun*, thus a gun-free zone is a great place for a shooting since the shooter will likely encounter less resistance (hence the large number of shootings at schools and shopping malls relative to other locations).
*this is purely speculative and I have zero proof
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on January 21, 2015, 08:47:34 PM
Northland Mall in Southfield, north of Detroit with the closure of Macy's is on the death knell. Ironic to see that mall opened by Hudson's stores, was the beginning of the decline of the big Hudson's store in downtown Motown.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?19658-Northland-Macy-s-targeted-for-closure
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20150107/BLOG014/150109908/macys-plans-to-close-northland-center-store-says-southfields-acting
Northland Mall was built in the early-to-mid 1950s and had even some atomic shelter
http://curbed.com/archives/2014/06/11/how-the-cold-war-shaped-the-design-of-american-malls.php
http://www.michigancivildefense.com/northlandcentermallsouthfield.html
From today's Detroit Free Press:
"Northland Center mall could close by spring ... Stripped of its last anchor stores and losing nearly $250,000 every month, the entire Northland Center mall is now in danger of shutting down. ..."
Link: http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2015/02/23/judge-decide-northland-mall-can-close/23909029/
I think the Freep is being charitable with the use of "could." I don't see any way out.
I grew up with this mall. Most of my school clothes from elementary through high school came from the Hudson's store. I have lots of memories of shopping with my mother and having lunch in the Hudson's restaurant. But since I returned to the Detroit area after college, I've only been there a few times since it was enclosed. The last time was for the closing sales when the JCP store was getting ready to exit, and it was looking pretty tired at that time. Deferred maintenance was evident all over.
For a mall/shopping center to have survived for 61 years, it led a good life. How many professional sports stadiums or arenas have that long of a life?
Speaking of which, if you want creepy, here are some videos of the old, abandoned Pontiac Silverdome -- former home of the Lions and Pistons.
When roof was still (barely) intact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuxrWO0JEM0
Most recently and without the "dome": http://youtu.be/vAKCNK5TAiE
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mall-threat-inspire-attacks-feds-malls-prepare-worst/story?id=29168062
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/23/us/us-al-shabaab-preparedness/
Apparently Homeland security says US Malls are terrorist targets for ISIS? Umm.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 24, 2015, 03:02:56 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 24, 2015, 02:40:28 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
The big mall here in the Appleton area has those very attractive to bad guys 'Come in and raise h***' (AKA, 'No weapons allowed') signs on all of their doors and parking lot entrances.
Step one - LOSE THOSE SIGNS! The law-abiding public, especially in today's climate of popular concealed-carry, is a *formidable* security force in its own right and is remarkably effective in protecting itself and any property within its view. Make the most of it!
Mike
So you can have some guy who may or may not have a gun losing his shit at a cashier because she won't honor an expired coupon?
Anyone who's worked a service job knows that customers are capricious, petty things. Inviting them to bring their gun to your workplace doesn't exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence that the gun will be used against a terrorist (how often do you have those, anyway?) rather than against you because they're a customer that wants to get into a pissing match with a store clerk over a sale or a refund or something (which happens daily).
I imagine the issue is that somebody, with the intent to provoke harm towards others, probably cares little about rules to begin with. Most people will not enter a no-guns zone with a gun*, thus a gun-free zone is a great place for a shooting since the shooter will likely encounter less resistance (hence the large number of shootings at schools and shopping malls relative to other locations).
*this is purely speculative and I have zero proof
It's the people who
don't have intent to provoke harm towards others that I worry about. People who go into a store or whatever to shop and they're perfectly fine until their credit card declines, or they're informed they can't do a return, or the way the register processes a sale makes the total 29¢ off from what the customer thinks it should be, or whatever. People turn into little kids when they get told no. I would be afraid that one of these people would lose control and start waving around a gun. I've heard plenty of stories about cashiers getting assaulted by customers over dumb shit like this, so obviously what is legal doesn't really matter to them much.
Put another way–we have no-gun signs on the door at the casino I work at. People get mad because they lose and will break the slot machine screens (and although we will detain them if able, they usually realize they fucked up and bolt for the door afterward). It wouldn't exactly make me feel safe if people started shooting the screens out instead. We've never had an incident where a random person with a gun would come in handy but we do have people getting angry with us for a multitude of reasons every day, and I wouldn't want to start having to worry about if the guy who just lost his whole paycheck at a slot machine has a gun.
'No weapons' policies are useless without airport-style magnetometers at every entrance.
Mike
Quote from: thenetwork on February 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
For a mall/shopping center to have survived for 61 years, it led a good life. How many professional sports stadiums or arenas have that long of a life?
Hmmmm, Lambeau Field will turn 61 in 2018.
:cheers:
Mike
Quote from: thenetwork on February 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
For a mall/shopping center to have survived for 61 years, it led a good life. How many professional sports stadiums or arenas have that long of a life?
They lasted that long before the team owners started demanding the public pay for new stadiums or else they'd threaten to move the teams somewhere else.
Quote from: mgk920 on February 24, 2015, 08:28:56 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 24, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
For a mall/shopping center to have survived for 61 years, it led a good life. How many professional sports stadiums or arenas have that long of a life?
Hmmmm, Lambeau Field will turn 61 in 2018.
:cheers:
Mike
Wrigley Field will be 101 this year. :clap:
Quote from: slorydn1 on February 25, 2015, 08:33:09 AM
Wrigley Field will be 101 this year. :clap:
The Coliseum in Rome turns 1935.
Quote from: kkt on February 25, 2015, 10:14:10 AM
Quote from: slorydn1 on February 25, 2015, 08:33:09 AM
Wrigley Field will be 101 this year. :clap:
The Coliseum in Rome turns 1935.
Good point.
I can't wait for the Lions of the National Criminal Eating League to make a come back there ;)
Quote from: kkt on February 25, 2015, 10:14:10 AMThe Coliseum in Rome turns 1935.
For stadia still used, and regularly, for their original purpose, The Oval (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oval) is 170 this year and Lord's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Cricket_Ground) is 201 though the original pavilion was replaced with the one below 125 years ago*
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.org%2Fygwm000dd%2FIMAG0425.jpg&hash=497ebf2dbc44033abffe3983f9032cfbec1b79de)
*there's a matter of new handles and new heads and whether it is still the same. Still, Lords will be the oldest stadium still in use whether you do or don't accept rebuilds, AFAICS.
From an urban planning standpoint, I'd rather have standalone stores connected together or close to each other than a mall owned by one company. Malls privatize public space and compete against each other, whereas stores in a commercial district of a city or town work together to help provide cohesiveness to a community.
The biggest problem to me is that new mall/shopping center development encourages the downfall of another mall or shopping center if they attract the same target audience. I can't stand seeing a new shopping center built when there are two nearby that aren't even at half capacity in the same town.
That said, I find suburban shopping center and mall history completely fascinating. Here in Baltimore, the big 4 department stores started suburban expansion by the mid to late 40s because they wanted to follow their customers. Ultimately, three of the four went bankrupt by the 80s because they kept sinking money into their downtown flagship stores and never recovered. The fourth, Hechts, became part of the Federated portfolio and transitioned into Macy's in 2005 because the stores were pretty much exactly the same.
Edit: hit enter too soon... Anyway, I grew up in the era of shopping malls, and it is sad to see so many of them go due to personal nostalgia. I enjoy exploring malls, particularly ones under capacity, because I like to imagine what they were like in their heyday. However, I live very close to three malls that are stable or thriving, with another very close to me undergoing conversion into a mixed use development. So they aren't going away from here anytime soon.
iPhone
Quote from: Laura on February 25, 2015, 07:29:00 PM
Edit: hit enter too soon... Anyway, I grew up in the era of shopping malls, and it is sad to see so many of them go due to personal nostalgia. I enjoy exploring malls, particularly ones under capacity, because I like to imagine what they were like in their heyday. However, I live very close to three malls that are stable or thriving, with another very close to me undergoing conversion into a mixed use development. So they aren't going away from here anytime soon.
I agree that malls and strip centers and the like are not going away (though there are some persons and groups that promote the "back to the city" agenda
for everything that would be delighted to see places like Tysons Corner Center in Fairfax County, Va. and Columbia Mall in Howard County, Md. go away).
But malls
still (IMO) serve a useful purpose, even if the U.S. (as a nation) was over-malled, and some malls went under because of crime and criminal activity that the owners of the mall were not to blame for (an example being the now-defunct Landover Mall (http://deadmalls.com/malls/landover_mall.html) in Prince George's County, Maryland).
Quote from: bing101 on February 23, 2015, 10:43:42 AMDang now Malls are getting attention as Terrorist targets. Woah who knows?
Saw this Political Cartoon (http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/signe/20150226_Daily_Signe_Cartoon_02_26_15.html#photoNumber=0) in today's (Feb. 26)
Philadelphia Inquirer.
One mall that died over a decade ago was the Swampscott Mall along MA 1A in Swampscott. It converted to a strip mall (bearing the same name) following the demise of
Bradlees (one of its anchor stores, that was replaced by a
Super Stop-and-Shop).
Even when it was still a mall (it was built in the mid-1970s); most of the stores were very short-lived (excluding its two anchor-stores (
Bradlees,
Medi-Mart that later became a
Walgreens)
Radio Shack and
Brigham's).
Thread bump:
Movie director Kevin Smith (of
Mallrats and
Clerks fame) want to film his
Mallrats 2 sequel (now retitled
Mallbrats according to another article) at the Granite Run Mall prior to its closing & demolition: Kevin Smith considering Granite Run Mall for set of Mallrats 2. (http://www.delcotimes.com/arts-and-entertainment/20150506/kevin-smith-considering-granite-run-mall-for-set-of-mallrats-2)
Quote from: Delco Times ArticleAnother Delaware County mall, the MacDade Mall, was the setting of some of the scenes of 2009's "The Lovely Bones," a film starring Mark Wahlberg, Rachel Weisz, Susan Sarandon and Stanley Tucci. It's based on the Alice Sebold novel telling the story of 14-year-old Susie Salmon after her murder.
I did not know the above. The MacDade Mall (now a strip-mall type shopping center; back then, it was still an enclosed mall) is within walking distance from where I live.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 04, 2015, 01:10:40 PM
This might be too much of a tangent, but would you guys also argue that "big box" stores like Best Buy, Bed, Bath & Beyond, and Petco are dying business models as well in favor of online shopping?
Unfortunately, that does seem to be the case. When shopping, I am all about instant total gratification. Waiting pisses me off. Especially now, as a truck driver, waiting a few days for something to be shipped turns into waiting until the next time I can get home, which is unpredictable.
And of course, the rise of online shopping means that many things that were hard enough to find have become even harder to find in brick-and-mortar situations. For instance, if iPods had existed 25 years ago, Radio Shack would've had replacement headphone jacks for them in-stock. In reality, when my headphone jack broke in my iPod, I had to buy a tablet with a microSD card slot and transfer stuff so I could continue to enjoy my music, because the iPod headphone jack is deemed a special order item, and no brick-and-mortars have it.
Quote from: PHLBOS on May 13, 2015, 05:44:15 PM
Thread bump:
Movie director Kevin Smith (of Mallrats and Clerks fame) want to film his Mallrats 2 sequel (now retitled Mallbrats according to another article) at the Granite Run Mall prior to its closing & demolition: Kevin Smith considering Granite Run Mall for set of Mallrats 2. (http://www.delcotimes.com/arts-and-entertainment/20150506/kevin-smith-considering-granite-run-mall-for-set-of-mallrats-2)
Quote from: Delco Times ArticleAnother Delaware County mall, the MacDade Mall, was the setting of some of the scenes of 2009's "The Lovely Bones," a film starring Mark Wahlberg, Rachel Weisz, Susan Sarandon and Stanley Tucci. It's based on the Alice Sebold novel telling the story of 14-year-old Susie Salmon after her murder.
I did not know the above. The MacDade Mall (now a strip-mall type shopping center; back then, it was still an enclosed mall) is within walking distance from where I live.
I remember spending quite a bit of time in that mall when visiting family in the 90s and oughts. Hate to see it go...and King of Prussia will be an even bigger clusterfuck now!
Quote from: DeaconG on May 14, 2015, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on May 13, 2015, 05:44:15 PM
Thread bump:
Movie director Kevin Smith (of Mallrats and Clerks fame) want to film his Mallrats 2 sequel (now retitled Mallbrats according to another article) at the Granite Run Mall prior to its closing & demolition: Kevin Smith considering Granite Run Mall for set of Mallrats 2. (http://www.delcotimes.com/arts-and-entertainment/20150506/kevin-smith-considering-granite-run-mall-for-set-of-mallrats-2)
Quote from: Delco Times ArticleAnother Delaware County mall, the MacDade Mall, was the setting of some of the scenes of 2009's "The Lovely Bones," a film starring Mark Wahlberg, Rachel Weisz, Susan Sarandon and Stanley Tucci. It's based on the Alice Sebold novel telling the story of 14-year-old Susie Salmon after her murder.
I did not know the above. The MacDade Mall (now a strip-mall type shopping center; back then, it was still an enclosed mall) is within walking distance from where I live.
I remember spending quite a bit of time in that mall when visiting family in the 90s and oughts. Hate to see it go...and King of Prussia will be an even bigger clusterfuck now!
The nearby Springfield Mall located east of Media is still alive and well.
I see that in the Florida Mall of Orlando, that Dick's Sporting Goods replaced Nordstrom. Two totally different types of department stores with different clientele are moving in the same building.
To me having Nordstrom there was a waste as it is mainly tourists that shop that particular mall. Even Saks moved out as upscale was not being attracted to that mall at all. Macy's only survives is because they pay their staff draw verses commission which allows the books to look like they always have money even if it is not liquid. The premise behind that is that you as a salesperson pays back the cost of the merchandise directly out of your pay. In fact you do not receive commission until you weeks (and back weeks) wages are covered, so basically their wages are not from their cash flow on paper, but money owed from potential sales.
In laymen's terms draw verses commission means you pay the company back for your salary and wages.
Reviving this thread since it was announced previously that Macy's is closing 40 stores (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2126953), 4 of which were closed before the end of the year. Some, like CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/news/companies/macys-dead-malls/index.html?iid=ob_article_footer&iid=obinsite), are predicting that it could be the death knell for several shopping malls.
Quote from: froggie on February 07, 2016, 08:25:21 AM
Reviving this thread since it was announced previously that Macy's is closing 40 stores (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2126953), 4 of which were closed before the end of the year. Some, like CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/news/companies/macys-dead-malls/index.html?iid=ob_article_footer&iid=obinsite), are predicting that it could be the death knell for several shopping malls.
The Virginia Center Commons and Regency stores closing doesn't surprise me at all. Those malls have been in steep decline in recent years.
Quote from: froggie on February 07, 2016, 08:25:21 AM
Reviving this thread since it was announced previously that Macy's is closing 40 stores (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=84477&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2126953), 4 of which were closed before the end of the year. Some, like CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/11/news/companies/macys-dead-malls/index.html?iid=ob_article_footer&iid=obinsite), are predicting that it could be the death knell for several shopping malls.
Thanks for that link. I don't think I ever knew Macy's and Bloomingdale's were owned by the same outfit. It's interesting to note that Fair Oaks Mall is not on the list of closures. There are two Macy's stores in that mall (one a former Hecht's). The information about Bloomingdale's means that Tysons Corner Center also has two of their stores (the former Hecht's that's now a Macy's, plus the Bloomingdale's that's been there since the early 1970s in the former Lansburgh's space), and of course another Macy's across the street at Tysons II (though that's not necessarily direct competition given the hassle of getting between the two malls).
I read somewhere that Macy's management decided they'd rather operate the two stores at Fair Oaks, even if it seems inefficient, than allow a competitor to take over the space. Once upon a time there was supposed to be a Nordstrom moving into that mall, but I guess that plan died a long time ago. I don't remember whether that was before or after Dulles Town Center opened, as there is a Nordstrom there. There is a Nordstrom Rack down the road from Fair Oaks Mall in the former CompUSA space, though.
To my knowledge, most, if not all, of the pre-21st century Richmond-area Macy's were previously Hecht's, and many of those were built as Thalheimers.
Huntsville, AL's Madison Square Mall will be closing some time this year. Went walking around inside it yesterday, a noticeable majority of the stores were closed, all but two restaurants in the food court were closed (and one of the closed ones was closed due to what appears to be suspected tax fraud), and only two anchors (JCPenny and Sears) are left there, out of what appears to have been originally five.
One of the stores in the mall was also closed with all of the merchandise still in it too.
One of those Macy's is at Chapel Hill Mall in Akron, OH. That closing, as well as some other closings of noteworthy stores in the mall, and some recent violent crimes at the mall are pretty much the nails in the coffin for what was Akron's first indoor mall.
Meanwhile, across town, Rolling Acres Mall continues to rot on the inside and outside as an abandoned mall: http://www.businessinsider.com/23-haunting-photos-of-a-dead-mall-in-ohio-2015-8
I see that Enfield, CT was on that Macy's list. I've been in that area (CT Route 190, Exit 47E from I-91), but never to the mall itself. (You're roughly 2 miles from the Massachusetts line, if that matters.)
Further back, there were a few JC Penney stores which closed. The only Connecticut location that closed was at Westfield Shoppingtown (mall) in Meriden, CT. The only Boscov's in New England now occupies that space.
Shopping malls still have their pizzazz in the 21st century. Where I live, a shopping mall is not only a place to shop, but a place for social interaction. Make new friends, tell good jokes, or have bad laughs. Do I get that in Amazon?
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 07, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
Shopping malls still have their pizzazz in the 21st century. Where I live, a shopping mall is not only a place to shop, but a place for social interaction. Make new friends, tell good jokes, or have bad laughs. Do I get that in Amazon?
I get that on Facebook, for the most part.
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 07, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
Shopping malls still have their pizzazz in the 21st century. Where I live, a shopping mall is not only a place to shop, but a place for social interaction. Make new friends, tell good jokes, or have bad laughs. Do I get that in Amazon?
I definitely do NOT get that at a mall. A mall is just a place to buy stuff that I need that for whatever reason I'm prepared to pay extra high markups on.
Quote from: kkt on February 07, 2016, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 07, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
Shopping malls still have their pizzazz in the 21st century. Where I live, a shopping mall is not only a place to shop, but a place for social interaction. Make new friends, tell good jokes, or have bad laughs. Do I get that in Amazon?
I definitely do NOT get that at a mall. A mall is just a place to buy stuff that I need that for whatever reason I'm prepared to pay extra high markups on.
^This. If your idea of social interaction is small talk with the cashier, so be it, I suppose.
When I was in my teens and early 20s, I'd hang out at the mall with different people. Some I knew from school, some I met there. We typically would hang around the arcade and food court areas and occasionally other places. I wasted a good bit of money there between when I graduated high school and when I started college.
What's the current prognosis of Sears and JCPenney? I've heard that JCPenney has stabilized over the past year, but what about Sears?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on February 08, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
What's the current prognosis of Sears and JCPenney? I've heard that JCPenney has stabilized over the past year, but what about Sears?
Mike
Penney's cuts stores that aren't doing well, like any other healthy retailer. Sears (and Kmart) on the other hand are not doing well, and could be considered to be swirling in the bottom of the toilet.
Quote from: Brandon on February 08, 2016, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 08, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
What's the current prognosis of Sears and JCPenney? I've heard that JCPenney has stabilized over the past year, but what about Sears?
Mike
Penney's cuts stores that aren't doing well, like any other healthy retailer. Sears (and Kmart) on the other hand are not doing well, and could be considered to be swirling in the bottom of the toilet.
It's just a matter of time for Sears and Kmart. When the stores look like they haven't been remodeled since the 80s, that's not a good sign.
In our town, with two 24-hour Walmarts and a Target with extended hours, we have a Kmart that closes at 7PM, if not sooner, on Sundays. They have already thrown in a towel.
They also opened up a Sears Outlet last year in a town with a floundering Sears. I thought "Sears Outlet"
was Kmart!! :spin:
Quote from: thenetwork on February 08, 2016, 12:12:13 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 08, 2016, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 08, 2016, 11:30:37 AM
What's the current prognosis of Sears and JCPenney? I've heard that JCPenney has stabilized over the past year, but what about Sears?
Mike
Penney's cuts stores that aren't doing well, like any other healthy retailer. Sears (and Kmart) on the other hand are not doing well, and could be considered to be swirling in the bottom of the toilet.
It's just a matter of time for Sears and Kmart. When the stores look like they haven't been remodeled since the 80s, that's not a good sign.
In our town, with two 24-hour Walmarts and a Target with extended hours, we have a Kmart that closes at 7PM, if not sooner, on Sundays. They have already thrown in a towel.
They also opened up a Sears Outlet last year in a town with a floundering Sears. I thought "Sears Outlet" was Kmart!! :spin:
The last northeast Super Kmart was converted to a regular store a couple of years ago. Living 5 minutes from it, we did a decent amount of shopping there. I think the company should just cut their losses, close the remaining Kmarts, and focus efforts on updating Sears locations.
The Kmart in Colonie, NY along Central Ave was totally razed some months ago, just leaving the concrete slab it stood on.
The Crestwood Mall in Crestwood, MO on Watson Rd/MO-366 was closed and abandoned back in 2009, leaving the movie theater open, which also ended up being closed a few years later.
Quote from: cl94 on February 08, 2016, 12:23:01 PM
I think the company should just cut their losses, close the remaining Kmarts, and focus efforts on updating Sears locations.
That's actually a great idea.
This thread has me thinking of the Hampshire and Mountain Farms Malls which are practically side-by-side in Hadley, MA. When I was a kid, the Hampshire Mall was the vibrant one and the Mountain Farms Mall simply died (especially when the Almys store closed in the mid-1980s).
There was an abortive attempt to fill the dead mall with a few small businesses, including a pool hall (wonder if it's still there), in the 1990s.
Then, Walmart came into the place and Whole Foods replaced the "Bread & Circus" (hippie food supermarket started partially by people who owned a co-op in nearby Amherst) and now one could argue that the Mountain Farms Mall is economically stronger than the Hampshire Mall.
Times they are a-changin'.
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 12:38:05 PM
The Kmart in Colonie, NY along Central Ave was totally razed some months ago, just leaving the concrete slab it stood on.
All of the ones in the Capital District have closed except for Schenectady, Queensbury, and Greenwich. Most of the locations are still vacant. I don't expect Queensbury to be open much longer with the Walmart that opened kitty-corner from it.
Burlington, VT's KMart closed a couple months ago.
But, curiously, the small Sears we have in St. Johnsbury, VT expanded a couple years ago.
Quote from: froggie on February 08, 2016, 01:09:17 PM
But, curiously, the small Sears we have in St. Johnsbury, VT expanded a couple years ago.
That's unexpected. The Sears closest to me downsized, with much of the first floor becoming a Whole Foods.
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 12:53:04 PM
This thread has me thinking of the Hampshire and Mountain Farms Malls which are practically side-by-side in Hadley, MA. When I was a kid, the Hampshire Mall was the vibrant one and the Mountain Farms Mall simply died (especially when the Almys store closed in the mid-1980s).
There was an abortive attempt to fill the dead mall with a few small businesses, including a pool hall (wonder if it's still there), in the 1990s.
Then, Walmart came into the place and Whole Foods replaced the "Bread & Circus" (hippie food supermarket started partially by people who owned a co-op in nearby Amherst) and now one could argue that the Mountain Farms Mall is economically stronger than the Hampshire Mall.
Times they are a-changin'.
At a certain point, that mall contained only a movie theater and Dave's Soda and Pet Food City, and possibly the pool hall you mentioned. I also have a vague recollection of some delivery food place operating out of there. Almost all of the mall stores were empty.
A membership warehouse club of some kind opened in there for a while, then closed. A flea market also occupied a large empty space there for some time.
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Quote from: cl94 on February 08, 2016, 01:12:44 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 08, 2016, 01:09:17 PM
But, curiously, the small Sears we have in St. Johnsbury, VT expanded a couple years ago.
That's unexpected. The Sears closest to me downsized, with much of the first floor becoming a Whole Foods.
The Burlington, Massachusetts, Sears did this, cramming all of a large two-floor store into one very cramped first floor. The second floor has not yet been occupied. I am not certain, but I think the same thing happened at the North Shore Mall in Saugus.
It's a shame, because for me it was the last Sears around here that felt well kept and orderly.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PM
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Nah, I remember when Bread & Circus opened, since the co-op, which was in downtown Amherst on Kellogg Ave near Boltwood Walk, closed down as the owners or management got in on it. A bunch of us kids were like, "What the freak is that place they tacked onto the dead mall?"
There's never been much east of the Hampshire Mall except for the HoJo's. :D
I still have my Dave's Soda and Pet Food City card.
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PM
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Nah, I remember when Bread & Circus opened, since the co-op, which was in downtown Amherst on Kellogg Ave near Boltwood Walk, closed down as the owners or management got in on it. A bunch of us kids were like, "What the freak is that place they tacked onto the dead mall?"
There's never been much east of the Hampshire Mall except for the HoJo's. :D
I still have my Dave's Soda and Pet Food City card.
I'll take your word for it. I felt like it was over by the Staples, but I never went to Bread & Circus much.
Dave's is still around, either still in the Mountain Farms Mall or returned to it.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PMThe Burlington, Massachusetts, Sears did this, cramming all of a large two-floor store into one very cramped first floor. The second floor has not yet been occupied. I am not certain, but I think the same thing happened at the North Shore Mall in Saugus.
The North Shore Mall is in Peabody (to my knowledge, that
Sears is still there and hasn't changed). If you're referring to the Sears in Saugus (along US 1); that one's at the Square One Mall.
Quote from: PHLBOS on February 08, 2016, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PMThe Burlington, Massachusetts, Sears did this, cramming all of a large two-floor store into one very cramped first floor. The second floor has not yet been occupied. I am not certain, but I think the same thing happened at the North Shore Mall in Saugus.
The North Shore Mall is in Peabody (to my knowledge, that Sears is still there and hasn't changed). If you're referring to the Sears in Saugus (along US 1); that one's at the Square One Mall.
Yes, you are correct. I meant the Square One Mall (where one has the choice of an unsatisfactory experience at either Kmart or Sears).
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PM
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Nah, I remember when Bread & Circus opened, since the co-op, which was in downtown Amherst on Kellogg Ave near Boltwood Walk, closed down as the owners or management got in on it. A bunch of us kids were like, "What the freak is that place they tacked onto the dead mall?"
There's never been much east of the Hampshire Mall except for the HoJo's. :D
I still have my Dave's Soda and Pet Food City card.
I'll take your word for it. I felt like it was over by the Staples, but I never went to Bread & Circus much.
Dave's is still around, either still in the Mountain Farms Mall or returned to it.
That whole office plaza where Staples and Applebee's are at the end of the four-laned section of MA 116 didn't really exist until the 1990s. The only thing that was there was Ho Jo's for a long time and The Hangar (in an actual hangar) was around there as well.
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PM
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Nah, I remember when Bread & Circus opened, since the co-op, which was in downtown Amherst on Kellogg Ave near Boltwood Walk, closed down as the owners or management got in on it. A bunch of us kids were like, "What the freak is that place they tacked onto the dead mall?"
There's never been much east of the Hampshire Mall except for the HoJo's. :D
I still have my Dave's Soda and Pet Food City card.
I'll take your word for it. I felt like it was over by the Staples, but I never went to Bread & Circus much.
Dave's is still around, either still in the Mountain Farms Mall or returned to it.
That whole office plaza where Staples and Applebee's are at the end of the four-laned section of MA 116 didn't really exist until the 1990s. The only thing that was there was Ho Jo's for a long time and The Hangar (in an actual hangar) was around there as well.
I did not know The Hangar existed in another location before it was on University Drive (where it was not in a hangar).
I have some vague recollection of the Staples and Fish and Wildlife Service being built. But as I said, my memory of the area is a little fuzzy.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 06:54:49 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 05:31:01 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:52:59 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2016, 01:28:09 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 08, 2016, 01:22:21 PM
My memory of this may be fuzzy, but I thought Bread & Circus always existed in a stand-alone store a little bit east of the Hampshire Mall. The Bread & Circus chain operated for a long time under that name after being bought out by Whole Foods, probably back in the early 90s. I think it was 2003 that the names were all unified as Whole Foods.
Nah, I remember when Bread & Circus opened, since the co-op, which was in downtown Amherst on Kellogg Ave near Boltwood Walk, closed down as the owners or management got in on it. A bunch of us kids were like, "What the freak is that place they tacked onto the dead mall?"
There's never been much east of the Hampshire Mall except for the HoJo's. :D
I still have my Dave's Soda and Pet Food City card.
I'll take your word for it. I felt like it was over by the Staples, but I never went to Bread & Circus much.
Dave's is still around, either still in the Mountain Farms Mall or returned to it.
That whole office plaza where Staples and Applebee's are at the end of the four-laned section of MA 116 didn't really exist until the 1990s. The only thing that was there was Ho Jo's for a long time and The Hangar (in an actual hangar) was around there as well.
I did not know The Hangar existed in another location before it was on University Drive (where it was not in a hangar).
I have some vague recollection of the Staples and Fish and Wildlife Service being built. But as I said, my memory of the area is a little fuzzy.
The Hangar was actually quite cool. Had half a Cessna or some other small plane sticking out the side of it.
When the Hangar moved, the half-a-plane was obtained by the auto garage in Hadley on MA 9 that had the car on their roof for many years. They did various things with the half-a-plane, but I believe they got rid of it relatively quickly.
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Add to the fact that any store or restaurant can have their own hours. Unlike if you are a mall tenant where you open and close when the mall tells you to...Including Black Friday!!! Anchor stores and restaurants have a bit of leeway because they usually pay the highest rents.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Add to the fact that any store or restaurant can have their own hours. Unlike if you are a mall tenant where you open and close when the mall tells you to...Including Black Friday!!! Anchor stores and restaurants have a bit of leeway because they usually pay the highest rents.
Sometimes they actually own their own land and stores. And just because the mall is open doesn't mean the store/restaurant needs to be open. Chick-Fil-A has done this for decades in shopping malls.
Quote from: Brandon on February 09, 2016, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Add to the fact that any store or restaurant can have their own hours. Unlike if you are a mall tenant where you open and close when the mall tells you to...Including Black Friday!!! Anchor stores and restaurants have a bit of leeway because they usually pay the highest rents.
Sometimes they actually own their own land and stores. And just because the mall is open doesn't mean the store/restaurant needs to be open. Chick-Fil-A has done this for decades in shopping malls.
In malls, this flexibilty is the exception rather than the rule.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 09, 2016, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Add to the fact that any store or restaurant can have their own hours. Unlike if you are a mall tenant where you open and close when the mall tells you to...Including Black Friday!!! Anchor stores and restaurants have a bit of leeway because they usually pay the highest rents.
Sometimes they actually own their own land and stores. And just because the mall is open doesn't mean the store/restaurant needs to be open. Chick-Fil-A has done this for decades in shopping malls.
In malls, this flexibilty is the exception rather than the rule.
Yes. My father was a regional manager for a now-defunct bookstore chain that was almost exclusively in malls. He still complains about the lease requirements set forth by Pyramid and Wilmorite...17 years after they went under.
I indirectly found out that a "traditional" mall is now called a "fortress mall" in the industry. The trend towards the outdoor "squares" has changed at least one mall plan here in NJ.... yes they plan on building another mall on top of a former Superfund site. :P
Original Plan:
Revised Plan:
Yet people are saying traditional malls are growing: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20131116/ISSUE01/311169981/giant-malls-are-a-crowded-b-popular-c-a-smart-investment-d-all-of-the-above
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 09, 2016, 03:59:31 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 09, 2016, 03:12:53 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
Quote from: kurumi on February 09, 2016, 11:32:45 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PM
The giant all-inside mall surrounded by an ocean of parking is on its way out. All over the country, I've seen these faux-main street retail developments being built in areas that would have spawned 'conventional' malls a generation or two ago. They have narrow little streets and wide sidewalks; most parking is in garages. Restaurants are scattered throughout, usually with outdoor seating. There's usually condos and office space thrown in for good measure.
It's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
This appeals to a lot of customers, though. It looks public, but it's actually private; so the homeless, protesters, loiterers, etc. are kept out. Sort of a gated community for retail.
Even for the rest of us, it's not a real city street, but it's better than The Mall.
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
Add to the fact that any store or restaurant can have their own hours. Unlike if you are a mall tenant where you open and close when the mall tells you to...Including Black Friday!!! Anchor stores and restaurants have a bit of leeway because they usually pay the highest rents.
Sometimes they actually own their own land and stores. And just because the mall is open doesn't mean the store/restaurant needs to be open. Chick-Fil-A has done this for decades in shopping malls.
In malls, this flexibilty is the exception rather than the rule.
Exactly, I used to work at a mall where despite many inclement weather events, snow emergencies and employees who could not make it in for their shifts, they remained open, or opened at the appointed time and if your store did not open on time or closed early, your company could have to pay a fine to the mall.
Chick Fil-A can get away from not being open in the food court on Sundays because that was a chick-fil-a bargaining chip to be a part of the mall, as well as their credo. The anchors can open early, close late or stay open all night if they want to because they are the anchors. It's those 50-75 other smaller stores in the mall that have to "dance monkey dance" when the mall says so because they are interchangeable.
I think in our mall, if 2 of the 4 anchor stores are open, the rest of the mall is supposed to be open. Again, it's flexible. The mall opens at 7am for the mall walkers, and a store or two that serves coffee or pastries may be open as well. There are some exceptions, notably Black Friday overnight (all the stores won't be open) but there are core hours the stores must be open.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 09, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
It strikes me as a safer investment than a mall. Buildings are individualized and therefore flexible. They can be reconfigured or replaced without a lot of disruption, and without the risk of creating a grim half-empty corridor people don't want to be in. A clear problem with malls is that one that isn't in top form quickly races to the bottom, a white elephant that can't easily be retooled without massive investment. Strip malls and this new variant have proven much less fickle a bet.
The problem with strip malls is that you have to create your own foot traffic in them. If you sell expensive items that people make a special effort to buy, things people NEED need or are financing things they can work. If you sell cheaper, nonessential items like we do (video games, DVDs, plush dolls, toys) your stuff will rot in a strip mall. You need literally hundreds of people coming into the store every day to make real money off of that stuff -- and we get that in the mall. 9 "pro" gamers coming in a day that are only looking for Chrono Trigger and Little Samson cannot keep you alive.
We've had a lot of these centers pop up on the Peninsula (including one right on top of a former mall), and none of them have done particularly well (Peninsula Town Center in Hampton did well for awhile, but I believe it's revenue has gone downhill since and it's changed hands at least once)
Most of our K-Marts have either closed up shop (such as the ones in Hampton and Denbigh) or have been shrunken and had other things move into the space (the one in Tabb, which was downsized in order to make room for a Kroger Marketplace). Our lone Sears in Hampton, however, has mostly chugged along, even after the mall it was in closed in the later 1990's.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PMIt's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
The ones with which I am familiar are centrally planned attempts to replicate something whose appeal comes from the fact that it was not centrally planned.
Remember when they were dying to go to the mall ??
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Qb5DdmSHa0Y%2FTW_Ijf-qtAI%2FAAAAAAAAABk%2FRJuvBmnKZnw%2Fs1600%2Fdawn_of_the_dead_1978_404_303_photos12.jpg&hash=364507a6b7b43923ce6813a830d78bdddf5d2377)
One lifestyle center that is doing really well is Easton Town Center in Columbus. It effectively killed two malls in the area and has been expanding constantly since it opened in 1999.
Who else has looked at Dan Bell's Dead Mall Series on YT? I've seen his vids of Granite Run Mall (Media, PA), Mall at Steamtown (Scranton, PA), and Tri-State Mall (at the last exit of I-95 in Delaware northbound [DE 92]). I grew up in the '70s on Granite Run and Tri-State when they were full malls, and I visited the Steamtown Mall when I visited Steamtown National Historic Site (a pedestrian bridge from the mall takes you to the NHS) in 2003 and the mall was full(er) even then.
ixnay
Quote from: Doctor Whom on February 15, 2016, 11:21:25 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 08, 2016, 11:07:43 PMIt's an admittedly lame attempt to duplicate the atmosphere of an actual neighborhood. It's lame because it's artificial. Everything is too polished and neat. It's too new. Someone is trying to manufacture what was abandoned generations ago and it shows.
The ones with which I am familiar are centrally planned attempts to replicate something whose appeal comes from the fact that it was not centrally planned.
This convoluted and dead-on explanation reminds me of Norton Commons, the artificial old-timey-neighborhood development on the Interstate outside Louisville. It reduces history and architecture to a bunch of stereotypes out of a Restoration Hardware catalogue, with no meaningful order or pattern. Evokes the feel of a kid wearing a fake mustache and his father's too-big suit.
It's high quality - but to those who can afford extremely expensive lots and $400,000 "modest" houses. I am amused by their downtown, which has a lot of holes - reminiscent of a downtown in decline, but really it's for buildings that have not yet been built.
If you have spent a lot of time living in towns over a hundred years old, the patterns are all off. You have to suspend any desire to understand the story nature of the place, yet its whole M.O. is to trick you into thinking it has any.
I don't know what $400,000 buys in the Louisville area, but that's not unusual for a "modest" house near Boston.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 19, 2016, 11:13:25 AM
I don't know what $400,000 buys in the Louisville area, but that's not unusual for a "modest" house near Boston.
That's a price that seems to vary from region to region, and even within regions. $400,000 will buy a decent house in Chicago, but a huge house in Joliet or Aurora (as an example). $400,000 will buy a few acres of woodlands in the Upper Peninsula.
Quote from: Thing 342 on February 09, 2016, 11:25:01 PM
We've had a lot of these centers pop up on the Peninsula (including one right on top of a former mall), and none of them have done particularly well (Peninsula Town Center in Hampton did well for awhile, but I believe it's revenue has gone downhill since and it's changed hands at least once)
Most of our K-Marts have either closed up shop (such as the ones in Hampton and Denbigh) or have been shrunken and had other things move into the space (the one in Tabb, which was downsized in order to make room for a Kroger Marketplace). Our lone Sears in Hampton, however, has mostly chugged along, even after the mall it was in closed in the later 1990's.
I lived in the Hunting Heights section of Newport News from 1991-1996 and since I used to walk alot to city hall, I started my own study of what was originally downtown before it became an urban ruin. It amazed me that in a short 2 years, downtown Newport News went from the largest downtown in Virginia to a dead ruin, mostly due to Newmarket Fair, and then how fast Newmarket Fair succumbed to Patrick Henry. Coliseum Mall was the bomb back then and I shopped there a good 2-3 times a week. I saw weakness develop there as I was leaving up in the Children's Palace wing, never thought tht it was the beginning of the end. However for me the big raw was shopping at Montgomery Wards and with their demise after I moved to San Diego, I can see how that might have been the final nail in the mall's coffin.
I used to keep a newspaper clipping on my office wall ( I bought a condemned fixer at 4808 Huntington Ave in 1991 for $30K) and the clipping was a 1981 image of Washington Avenue near 30th street totally packed with shoppers, standing room only on the sidewalks. At that time downtown Newport News had:
Sears at 28th and Huntington, the 1948 building is currently back in use for educational facilities.
JC Penny's at 30th and Washington
Nachmans on Washington between 31st and 32nd
Montgomery Ward on Washington between 29th and 30th, a big grand looking colonial brick building still in use for light industrial.
Grant's
Woolworths
Murphy's
1981 started with an announcement that Nachman's would undergo a muti-million renovation of it's downtown store. By the end of the year the store would be completely demolished and another 250 small shops would have closed.
A revitalization deal was reached wherein the superblock from 26th to 28th, Washington to West would be completely torn down, including 2 huge churches, and the shipyard would build 2 30+ story office buildings. The day before the ceremonial groundbreaking, the shipyard demanded a 20% tax break on it's existing facilities, was denied by the state, and did not even show for the groundbreaking. The loss of the commercial activity in that 2 block stretch killed what was left of lower Washington.
Quote from: Jardine on February 15, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
Remember when they were dying to go to the mall ??
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Qb5DdmSHa0Y%2FTW_Ijf-qtAI%2FAAAAAAAAABk%2FRJuvBmnKZnw%2Fs1600%2Fdawn_of_the_dead_1978_404_303_photos12.jpg&hash=364507a6b7b43923ce6813a830d78bdddf5d2377)
Umm people are dying to go to the mall but mainly when the news crews and shoppers are camping outside a mall talking about Black Friday on Thanksgiving week. Yes its insane PR for the Mall and Big Box stores involved in this. Sure this strategy will backfire in some places.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HPfGg-AygY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klxSynk-b8k&ebc=ANyPxKofrDTa2TBmzjKzxGPMOODRoRzNuPcdiISWbOUSMgFUSf0EYtwjk8x0RI8_ZAEROiNNovi1UZyWHTVf1DummT8UpLIe9A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgZWdxIxEro
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on February 19, 2016, 12:07:26 PM
I lived in the Hunting Heights section of Newport News from 1991-1996 and since I used to walk alot to city hall, I started my own study of what was originally downtown before it became an urban ruin. It amazed me that in a short 2 years, downtown Newport News went from the largest downtown in Virginia to a dead ruin, mostly due to Newmarket Fair, and then how fast Newmarket Fair succumbed to Patrick Henry.
Your description of how Newport News used to look is really interesting to me.
Was this just general suburban migration, or was it exacerbated by the military scaling back in the early 90's, and/or the economic conditions then? That seems to be longer than most other downtowns lasted nationwide.
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Quote from: Jardine on February 15, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
Remember when they were dying to go to the mall ??
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Qb5DdmSHa0Y%2FTW_Ijf-qtAI%2FAAAAAAAAABk%2FRJuvBmnKZnw%2Fs1600%2Fdawn_of_the_dead_1978_404_303_photos12.jpg&hash=364507a6b7b43923ce6813a830d78bdddf5d2377)
Umm people are dying to go to the mall but mainly when the news crews and shoppers are camping outside a mall talking about Black Friday on Thanksgiving week. Yes its insane PR for the Mall and Big Box stores involved in this. Sure this strategy will backfire in some places.
I'm not sure you were looking close enough at that picture to recognize a screencap from the '04 version of
Dawn of the Dead. The one where the zombies attack the mall. The whole scenario was a metaphor for consumerism.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 19, 2016, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 19, 2016, 12:23:09 PM
Quote from: Jardine on February 15, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
Remember when they were dying to go to the mall ??
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qb5DdmSHa0Y/TW_Ijf-qtAI/AAAAAAAAABk/RJuvBmnKZnw/s1600/dawn_of_the_dead_1978_404_303_photos12.jpg
Umm people are dying to go to the mall but mainly when the news crews and shoppers are camping outside a mall talking about Black Friday on Thanksgiving week. Yes its insane PR for the Mall and Big Box stores involved in this. Sure this strategy will backfire in some places.
I'm not sure you were looking close enough at that picture to recognize a screencap from the '04 version of Dawn of the Dead. The one where the zombies attack the mall. The whole scenario was a metaphor for consumerism.
Not quite. The screenshot is from the 1978 (read: original) Dawn of the Dead with Tom Savini and Ken Foree, among others. The mall is chosen because of supplies and security, not because of some made-up allusion to consumerism, as much as some might believe that.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
That kind of activity on Black Friday is way down as compared to say, 2008. We used to open at 6 with 3 people working and had to be let into the store by Security since the throngs were so thick. Now I (and many smaller stores I know) only have one person on staff until 9-10 AM. It doesn't get crazy until later in the day now. We have Summer Saturdays where we sell more than Black Friday.
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 19, 2016, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
That kind of activity on Black Friday is way down as compared to say, 2008. We used to open at 6 with 3 people working and had to be let into the store by Security since the throngs were so thick. Now I (and many smaller stores I know) only have one person on staff until 9-10 AM. It doesn't get crazy until later in the day now. We have Summer Saturdays where we sell more than Black Friday.
It helps that many places are open on Thanksgiving evening too. It spreads out the madness a bit.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 19, 2016, 11:30:12 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 19, 2016, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
That kind of activity on Black Friday is way down as compared to say, 2008. We used to open at 6 with 3 people working and had to be let into the store by Security since the throngs were so thick. Now I (and many smaller stores I know) only have one person on staff until 9-10 AM. It doesn't get crazy until later in the day now. We have Summer Saturdays where we sell more than Black Friday.
It helps that many places are open on Thanksgiving evening too. It spreads out the madness a bit.
And that online is cheaper and easier, if you can wait.
Quote from: coatimundi on February 19, 2016, 05:10:53 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on February 19, 2016, 12:07:26 PM
I lived in the Hunting Heights section of Newport News from 1991-1996 and since I used to walk alot to city hall, I started my own study of what was originally downtown before it became an urban ruin. It amazed me that in a short 2 years, downtown Newport News went from the largest downtown in Virginia to a dead ruin, mostly due to Newmarket Fair, and then how fast Newmarket Fair succumbed to Patrick Henry.
Your description of how Newport News used to look is really interesting to me.
Was this just general suburban migration, or was it exacerbated by the military scaling back in the early 90's, and/or the economic conditions then? That seems to be longer than most other downtowns lasted nationwide.
I will give more insights later but 2 factors I now of was:
The decline of housewives coming into town with their shipyard worker husband and shopping all day.
A secret agenda on the part of Newport News Shipbuilding wherin they became landlocked because of downtown and decided to accellerate it's demise, take over the land, and turn it into a brownfield light industrail zone. Which, now that they have taken over, some of the newly constructed facilities are pretty decent.
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 19, 2016, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
That kind of activity on Black Friday is way down as compared to say, 2008. We used to open at 6 with 3 people working and had to be let into the store by Security since the throngs were so thick. Now I (and many smaller stores I know) only have one person on staff until 9-10 AM. It doesn't get crazy until later in the day now. We have Summer Saturdays where we sell more than Black Friday.
For example, today we sold more than we did last Black Friday. This despite the fact that we are still depleted of stock from Xmas, wintertime and tax time. It takes us a while to build up our stock again since people don't sell us as much stuff in the winter.
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 20, 2016, 07:58:15 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 19, 2016, 10:41:03 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 19, 2016, 12:31:41 PM
Glad to know we have moved onto the exaggerated, something happens on extremely rare occasion by a few shoppers but let's act as if it involved every mall everywhere with everyone at all times.
That kind of activity on Black Friday is way down as compared to say, 2008. We used to open at 6 with 3 people working and had to be let into the store by Security since the throngs were so thick. Now I (and many smaller stores I know) only have one person on staff until 9-10 AM. It doesn't get crazy until later in the day now. We have Summer Saturdays where we sell more than Black Friday.
For example, today we sold more than we did last Black Friday. This despite the fact that we are still depleted of stock from Xmas, wintertime and tax time. It takes us a while to build up our stock again since people don't sell us as much stuff in the winter.
Not surprising at all. People don't buy a lot on Black Friday. They go for one item that is on sale and, if the item they want isn't in stock, they leave without buying anything.
Yeah we don't have "sales". When you only have 1, 2 or 3 max of most of your items in stock ever it is hard to have "sales".
Thought this might be apt for this thread:
Northland mall tunnels reveal their secrets (http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2016/02/29/days-numbered-northland-mall-underground-tunnels/80518504/)
QuoteCountless shoppers visited metro Detroit's Northland Center mall during its 61 years of business.
Yet only a few ever saw the elaborate system of service tunnels that still exists beneath the nation's first regional shopping mall, which closed last April and could face demolition as early as this summer.
The underground tunnels opened with the mall in 1954 and were primarily used for making truck deliveries to Northland's stores, but also for storage, workshop space and even nuclear bomb shelters.
There's a bunch of photographs as well.
Quote from: Brandon on March 01, 2016, 01:33:47 PM
Thought this might be apt for this thread:
Northland mall tunnels reveal their secrets (http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2016/02/29/days-numbered-northland-mall-underground-tunnels/80518504/)
QuoteCountless shoppers visited metro Detroit's Northland Center mall during its 61 years of business.
Yet only a few ever saw the elaborate system of service tunnels that still exists beneath the nation's first regional shopping mall, which closed last April and could face demolition as early as this summer.
The underground tunnels opened with the mall in 1954 and were primarily used for making truck deliveries to Northland's stores, but also for storage, workshop space and even nuclear bomb shelters.
There's a bunch of photographs as well.
Fascinating, especially that message from a tenant employee on the mall's final day.
Mike
The mall where my store is located doesn't have much in the way of secrets having been built in 1987, being one story (including the anchors) and under 1,000,000 sq. ft. However, when I visit the malls where a friend's stores are located and use the service halls and storage areas in the course of doing business with him it is clear that a lot of older, larger malls have all kinds of unusual things going on -- especially ones that have been expanded multiple times over the years.
This is older news now, but still relevant:
http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/new-outlet-mall-coming-soon-to-winnipeg-1.2581403
It will be done by May 2017. I went by the other day, and the basic structure is starting to come together. I may get some pics later.
Outlet malls are highly overrated.