There was a brief period–from 3 January to 20 August 1959–when there were 49 states: Alaska way up north and "The Lower 48" . But after that, the other 48 were no longer "lower" than both of the other two. And yet the phrase "The Lower 48" is still pretty common today. How could a phrase become so popular in a little over seven months' time that it would still be with us half a century later?
I've never seen a satisfactory explanation.
I guess it's more catchy than "contiguous 48."
Quote from: briantroutman on May 19, 2015, 09:06:46 PM
I've never seen a satisfactory explanation.
Colloquialisms won't often have a "satisfactory" explanation for their existence.
I always say the contiguous 48 when referring to the states besides Alaska and Hawaii. I know that I am certainly in the minority, but I'm used to being in that position. It's not the only topic that I stand alone, or among a very small crowd on.
I'll use the mainland if I'm in Hawai'i, but otherwise I don't give it much thought.
I guess 'the lower 48' is accurate though. They're not 'the lowest 48', just lower. I guess 'the lowest 1' never caught on for Hawai'i!!
The thing about Hawaii is it is so far off the mainland it's almost like another country (and it used to be another country). Alaska is at least part of North America.
Some people use "the continental United States" to describe the 48 contiguous states, which is just as inaccurate as "the lower 48" when you think about it.
"Lower 48" makes perfect sense from an Alaskan perspective, IMHO.
I would guess that, as Alaska was gearing up for statehood in 1959, the term "lower 48" became prominent in the press of the day, as the need arose for a distinguishing term between this new, non-contiguous state and the rest of them.
With Hawaii's statehood then following so closely afterwards, the Alaska-relevant term probably just carried on into everyday usage.
From the Alaskan point of view The Lower 48 clearly means the contiguous states. Hawaii is The Lower 1. (Or the southernmost Aleutian island.)
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MN
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MN
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Channel Islands, CA ;)
Isle Royale, MI :P
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 20, 2015, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MN
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Channel Islands, CA ;)
Isle Royale, MI :P
All part of one or another of the contiguous states, even if they would not be contiguous if they were separate states.
As for "mainland", Hawaiians don't distinguish offshore islands (which include California's inhabited Santa Catalina Island) from the rest of the mainland states. I'm not sure how they regard Alaska, other than as a prime source for winter tourists. :)
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MN
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Point Roberts, WA
I like Lower 48, mainly because it's easy to remember that AK and HI are separate from the rest of the nation.
Hawaii should call them the Upper 48.
Quote from: kkt on May 21, 2015, 03:33:20 PM
Hawaii should call them the Upper 48.
Or "Upper 49" , which would accurately include Alaska.
Quote from: briantroutman on May 21, 2015, 03:44:28 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 21, 2015, 03:33:20 PM
Hawaii should call them the Upper 48.
Or "Upper 49" , which would accurately include Alaska.
Just wait for the State of Puerto Rico to screw all this up. :-D
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MN
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Those are all contiguous, just over water instead of land. Meanwhile, Hawaii is surrounded by international water, and one has to pass though either the Canadian mainland, Canadian territorial waters, or international waters to get to Alaska.
To be precise, one should use the term "48 conterminous states".
"Conterminous" meaning "to share a common boundary."
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 22, 2015, 01:28:34 PM
To be precise, one should use the term "48 conterminous states".
"Conterminous" meaning "to share a common boundary."
Contiguous and conterminous are really the same thing, but the definition of contiguous is a bit looser than conterminous (contiguous can include things nearby, and depending on your definition of "near", you could include Alaska in the contiguous US). Thus, indeed, conterminous is a safer word but contiguous isn't immediately wrong.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 21, 2015, 12:49:44 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 20, 2015, 09:29:47 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2015, 09:20:00 PM
Are these counted in the "contiguous" United States? What about the "mainland"?
Northwest Angle, MNa
Nantucket, MA
Martha's Vineyard, MA
San Juan Islands, WA
Key West, FL
Thousand Islands, NY
Channel Islands, CA ;)
Isle Royale, MI :P
If we're counting Isle Royale, MadisonMadeline Island (the inhabited Apostle Island) should count, too. Not to mention Washington Island, Mackinac Island, etc...
Heck, there's even one or two inhabited islands near Red Wing, MN that aren't accessible by car.
But these are no doubt part of the continental U.S. because they are just islands in an inland lake or river.
Key West is accessible by car/foot (most of the time) so it counts by proxy.
iPhone
FTFY :D
From the perspective of the Indian Ocean and its surroundings, the direction of "up" makes Alaska and Hawaii the highest two states, so the rest are indeed the "lower 48".
Quote from: vtk on May 23, 2015, 07:48:15 AM
From the perspective of the Indian Ocean and its surroundings, the direction of "up" makes Alaska and Hawaii the highest two states, so the rest are indeed the "lower 48".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_elevation
Hawaii is not the second highest.
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2015, 09:12:26 PMThose are all contiguous, just over water instead of land. Meanwhile, Hawaii is surrounded by international water, and one has to pass though either the Canadian mainland, Canadian territorial waters, or international waters to get to Alaska.
I would count all of those minor islands and exclaves as part of the contiguous 48, or the lower 48, on the basis that their separation from the mainland is not great. In the case of the Northwest Angle, it is possible to have a quibble on the "territorial waters" aspect since while the US considers the waters surrounding the Northwest Angle to be its territorial waters, Canada maintains that they are international waters. This is (per Wikipedia) one of the few remaining boundary disputes between the US and Canada.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 23, 2015, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2015, 09:12:26 PMThose are all contiguous, just over water instead of land. Meanwhile, Hawaii is surrounded by international water, and one has to pass though either the Canadian mainland, Canadian territorial waters, or international waters to get to Alaska.
I would count all of those minor islands and exclaves as part of the contiguous 48, or the lower 48, on the basis that their separation from the mainland is not great. In the case of the Northwest Angle, it is possible to have a quibble on the "territorial waters" aspect since while the US considers the waters surrounding the Northwest Angle to be its territorial waters, Canada maintains that they are international waters. This is (per Wikipedia) one of the few remaining boundary disputes between the US and Canada.
IMO Northwest Angle should just be given to Canada. Point Roberts as well. In return we could take Kanatakon and Cornwall Island (and that other piece of Quebec that is only connected to the US) and the Akwasasne could stop complaining about having to constantly report to customs. Canada can take Estcourt Junction as well. Not sure who should get Derby Line/Stanstead.
Quote from: vdeane on May 23, 2015, 10:17:46 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 23, 2015, 11:39:03 AM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2015, 09:12:26 PMThose are all contiguous, just over water instead of land. Meanwhile, Hawaii is surrounded by international water, and one has to pass though either the Canadian mainland, Canadian territorial waters, or international waters to get to Alaska.
I would count all of those minor islands and exclaves as part of the contiguous 48, or the lower 48, on the basis that their separation from the mainland is not great. In the case of the Northwest Angle, it is possible to have a quibble on the "territorial waters" aspect since while the US considers the waters surrounding the Northwest Angle to be its territorial waters, Canada maintains that they are international waters. This is (per Wikipedia) one of the few remaining boundary disputes between the US and Canada.
IMO Northwest Angle should just be given to Canada. Point Roberts as well. In return we could take Kanatakon and Cornwall Island (and that other piece of Quebec that is only connected to the US) and the Akwasasne could stop complaining about having to constantly report to customs. Canada can take Estcourt Junction as well. Not sure who should get Derby Line/Stanstead.
I'd rather we just got rid of customs between the US and Canada.