Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
I agree overall, but also woefully substandard is the stretch of I-68 through Cumberland MD (though nothing like Breezewood on I-70), and also the connection from I-79 back to I-70.
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
To get through Wheeling is it best to take 470 or 70?
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
To get through Wheeling is it best to take 470 or 70?
Interstate 470, take a look at the route here (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/i-470_wv.html).
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
To get through Wheeling is it best to take 470 or 70?
Interstate 470, take a look at the route here (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/i-470_wv.html).
If you're heading west towards Dayton any time soon on I-70, I-470 is the only way, as the Westbound I-70 Wheeling Tunnel is closed.
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 06:41:24 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 02:31:18 PM
Quote from: AARoads on February 21, 2010, 01:48:06 PM
Quote from: J-Wags on February 21, 2010, 12:53:02 PM
Is I-68 a great alternative to bypassing the PA turnpike if coming from Baltimore, MD and traveling west towards Dayton, OH and Indianapolis, IN?
Yes, Interstate 68 is a great ride west to Interstate 79 from Maryland. Considering the tolls on the PA Turnpike, I would take it as a way to get to Interstate 70 west from Washington, PA. Not to mention that Interstate 70 is woefully substandard in portions along its stretch between Interstate 79 and the Turnpike.
To get through Wheeling is it best to take 470 or 70?
Interstate 470, take a look at the route here (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/i-470_wv.html).
Last time I went there I went through the tunnel but it sucks because only one lane is through.
If the tunnel's opened back up on I-70, it's quicker to just go through.
If you don't pay attention to speed limits (like most PA drivers it seems), and on a somewhat tight schedule, I would recommend the Turnpike. From what I've heard Maryland is very strict on speed limits and doesn't give any leeway. That said, the only cops I've seen on I-68, having only been on it twice in one year many months apart - have been on the downhills before Cumberland (and not in the 40mph stretch, only in the 65 mph stretch).
If you want scenery, I-68 is much better and worth any extra distance and time.
As for I-70 vs. I-470 at Wheeling, I do not think there is much of a difference in time; granted I've almost always taken I-70 for the thrill of the tunnel and only taken I-470 straight through once to clinch it and get photos.
The section of I-70 from Maryland to Breezewood can be a Trooper paradise considering it's posted at 55, but they'll give you to 65 before they leave their hiding place.
As for Wheeling, I'd stick with I-470 because its speed limit doesn't deviate that much whereas I-70 through the city drops.
I do agree with the two bloggers that I-68 is a trooper paradise especially going westward just before Cumberland. I spotted three driving on 68 last November. Except for the tolls, there really isn't much difference between taking the Turnpike from I-68
I must be the exception, because I've never seen a trooper along I-68...
I-68 is a continious speed trap in Maryland. Cops like to hide at the bottom of hills where you would have to ride the brakes to keep under 65, plus the crazy mid-design in Cumberland and the accompanying 35 SL.
In any event, to answer the OP's question, when 68 ends at Morgantown, do not turn north on 79 back into PA and hit 70 at Washington. Rather, turn south and go down to Clarksburg then take US 50, which is now compete as a 4 lane all the way into Ohio. The road is just as good, few cops in WV, and among the lowest traffic volumes east of the Mississippi.
When I clinched Interstate 68 in 2004, I was descending along a hill in western Maryland around the speed limit, when I noticed a trooper merging onto the freeway to pull someone over. At the same time, a car from the eastbound lanes was making an illegal U-turn from one of the median breaks allocated to official vehicles. The car making the u-turn drove slow and the trooper disappeared around the bend. A moment later, the trooper was standing outside his vehicle behind the car he just pulled over, and hand singled aggressively at the motorist who u-turned for he/she to also pull over.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 07, 2010, 07:46:23 AM
I-68 is a continuous speed trap in Maryland.
Yes, it is, and so is US 220 from I-68 to the PA line.
Quote from: froggie on April 07, 2010, 06:50:43 AMI must be the exception, because I've never seen a trooper along I-68...
I can count on one hand the instances since 2002 that I've seen them, and it was mostly where the limit drops around Cumberland.
Quote from: froggie on April 07, 2010, 06:50:43 AM
I must be the exception, because I've never seen a trooper along I-68...
I was on the route before it was I-68, and I remember very distinctly lots of Maryland troopers out of their cars, using handheld radar guns, along the former US 48 back in 1982.
These days, V1's are wonderful things. :-)
Quote from: SP Cook on April 07, 2010, 07:46:23 AM
In any event, to answer the OP's question, when 68 ends at Morgantown, do not turn north on 79 back into PA and hit 70 at Washington. Rather, turn south and go down to Clarksburg then take US 50, which is now compete as a 4 lane all the way into Ohio. The road is just as good, few cops in WV, and among the lowest traffic volumes east of the Mississippi.
Depends on where you are going. If your intent is to follow I-70 into Indiana and points west, I guess US 50 to US 35 to Dayton is a decent choice.
Quote from: dave19 on April 07, 2010, 12:08:44 PM
Yes, it is, and so is US 220 from I-68 to the PA line.
All 3 or so miles of it? ;-)
Speaking of, I was poking around the ARC site and apparently there will never be an extension of I-99 to I-68, or even improvements to US 220 in Pennsylvania. Seems that PA swapped that corridor mileage for another route and has pronounced existing US 220 as adequate.
http://www.arc.gov/images/programs/transp/adhs_status_report_2009/ADHSFY2009StatusReportPennsylvania.pdf
The relevant passage:
Corridor O1 (U.S. 322)
Section 1117 of TEA-21 added a 23.7-mile segment from Corridor O at Port Matilda to I-
80 near Clearfield which is designated as Corridor O1. On November 9, 2001, ARC
approved the State's request to move the eligibility of an additional 3.0 miles from
Corridor U. The total length of the Corridor O1 is now 26.7 miles. The ADHS eligibility
was removed from the 23.7-mile segment of Corridor O south of Bedford to the
Maryland state line and the segment was declared "adequate" .
^^^
Of course, with PA scrambling for funds after their ill-fated attempt to toll I-80, who knows when they could upgrade the US 220 corridor even if they wanted to.
Quote from: mightyace on April 08, 2010, 02:57:36 AM
^^^
Of course, with PA scrambling for funds after their ill-fated attempt to toll I-80, who knows when they could upgrade the US 220 corridor even if they wanted to.
Apparently this dates back to 2001 and the original TEA-21 legislation, but I had not heard about it until recently when I poked around on the ARC site. If I'm not mistaken ARC ponies up 80 percent and the state only has to come up with 20 percent.
Quote from: PAHighways on April 07, 2010, 09:18:24 PM
I can count on one hand the instances since 2002 that I've seen them, and it was mostly where the limit drops around Cumberland.
I've been travelling I-68 and US 220 through MD quite frequently over the last two years and have rarely made the trip when I did not see any troopers. They often have someone pulled over near exit 4.
I usually see one along 220 every time, too (yes, all 3 miles of it!) :)
I got nailed on 220 just after exiting 68 - I started down that hill after you go over the bridge over 68 and was almost under the overhead BGS's when he came around the curve about a half mile down the road and hit me with instant-on (he was so far down the road I couldn't tell it was a police cruiser). That was the one time the radar detector couldn't help me... :no:
Usually I'll see no cops in PA or WV but at least 2 in MD.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 07, 2010, 11:56:44 PMCorridor O1 (U.S. 322)
Section 1117 of TEA-21 added a 23.7-mile segment from Corridor O at Port Matilda to I-
80 near Clearfield which is designated as Corridor O1. On November 9, 2001, ARC
approved the State's request to move the eligibility of an additional 3.0 miles from
Corridor U. The total length of the Corridor O1 is now 26.7 miles. The ADHS eligibility
was removed from the 23.7-mile segment of Corridor O south of Bedford to the
Maryland state line and the segment was declared "adequate" .
That's why the exits for I-99 begin in Bedford.
Quote from: dave19 on April 08, 2010, 09:27:19 PMUsually I'll see no cops in PA or WV but at least 2 in MD.
I've had the opposite experience the last few times I have driven to Baltimore: PSP hiding all along 70 north of the Mason-Dixon Line but nothing south...except speed cameras.
Quote from: PAHighways on April 14, 2010, 09:43:15 AM
That's why the exits for I-99 begin in Bedford.
Jeff, how does this play into the US-219 upgrade that WV/PA/MD is fighting for? With all the play on upgrading US-220 between Corridor H and I-68, why wouldn't they just upgrade all of 220 to four lanes betweend I-68 and Bedford? It seems like they are moving the money around in ways that don't make sense? Why do two corridors piecemeal?
Personally, in my opinion, it might have something to do with how horrible US 219 is south of Somerset (with the Meyersdale bypass being an exception) vs. the stretch of US-220 between I-68 & Bedford.
Also, the folks in the Somerset county area have been hearing they're gonna get the thing built for about as long as I've been alive.
Quote from: LeftyJR on April 14, 2010, 12:53:43 PMJeff, how does this play into the US-219 upgrade that WV/PA/MD is fighting for? With all the play on upgrading US-220 between Corridor H and I-68, why wouldn't they just upgrade all of 220 to four lanes betweend I-68 and Bedford? It seems like they are moving the money around in ways that don't make sense? Why do two corridors piecemeal?
There has always been talk of building an expressway from Maryland to the Turnpike along the 219 corridor (http://htp://www.us219.com) (even as a second round of Turnpike Extensions), but none about constructing one along 220. The focus of the latter has always been trying to connect both major east-west routes, which it finally did.
The Meyersdale to Somerset section of 219 was in the news a few months back, and it was mentioned that bidding could start November of this year.
Is there any reason why I-68 is so much more scenic and your ears pop on it as opposed to the PA turnpike?
Also, what is with the land clearing on the hill by milepost 128 on the PA Turnpike?
Quote from: leifvanderwall on April 06, 2010, 08:12:21 PM
I do agree with the two bloggers that I-68 is a trooper paradise especially going westward just before Cumberland. I spotted three driving on 68 last November. Except for the tolls, there really isn't much difference between taking the Turnpike from I-68
The troopers there on the downhill are generally looking for trucks going faster than 45 and/or in the left lane.
Holy threadbump!
There was a lot of talk in this thread about going through Wheeling after using I-68. I've used four different routes to or from Pittsburgh or southern Ohio:
(1) I-70 to Breezewood, then the Turnpike to Pittsburgh (never gone that way to southern Ohio, though we went that way on a trip to Michigan back in 1987).
(2) I-68 west to I-79, then north to Pittsburgh (again, never gone that way to Ohio).
(3) I-68 west to the US-219 exit in Maryland, then a right turn to pick up US-40 to Uniontown, then the new PA-43 toll road up to I-70, then I-70 west to Ohio (have not used this to Pittsburgh).
(4) Coming back from Ohio: US-33 to US-50, cross into West Virginia at Parkersburg, follow to Clarksburg, then I-79 south to US-33/future Corridor H into Virginia.
A variation on #4, going westbound, would be I-68 west to I-79, then south to US-50 (Corridor D) and follow that west to Ohio. That's how I'd go if I were on I-68 heading west to southern Ohio (obviously out of the way for northern Ohio) unless my destination were right around Wheeling. Corridor D proved to be wide-open, no traffic lights and nobody on the road, much more pleasant than Pennsylvania's substandard Interstates. (In my case, I'm uncertain whether I would use Corridor H in its present configuration or I-68. Might depend on how much time we had, as you have to connect from the western end of Corridor H to some other thru route. There are several options, of course.)
Regarding cops on I-68, my brother always claims Garrett County is always crawling with cops. I've never seen one on there. In fairness to my brother, however, I should note that usually when he's on that road it's to go to a "music festival" somewhere (he regularly has photo passes for Ratdog and related bands), so I'm sure the cops also know about the "music festivals" and are looking for a pretext to pull over people they think are stoners and the like.
QuoteCorridor D proved to be wide-open, no traffic lights and nobody on the road,
There's a signal now...at WV 98. Also at the I-77 and I-79 ramps.
Quote from: froggie on March 24, 2014, 11:17:27 AM
QuoteCorridor D proved to be wide-open, no traffic lights and nobody on the road,
There's a signal now...at WV 98. Also at the I-77 and I-79 ramps.
Yeah, I meant no lights between those two Interstates (which you note is no longer the case). I just didn't feel that level of specificity was needed. It's still a much easier ride than Pennsylvania's Interstates, though maybe not in the snow (I have not had reason to find out).
Quote from: bluecountry on March 23, 2014, 07:29:59 PM
Also, what is with the land clearing on the hill by milepost 128 on the PA Turnpike?
I think that is associated with the New Baltimore Slide Remediation project.
Quote from: PAHighways on April 14, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: LeftyJR on April 14, 2010, 12:53:43 PMJeff, how does this play into the US-219 upgrade that WV/PA/MD is fighting for? With all the play on upgrading US-220 between Corridor H and I-68, why wouldn't they just upgrade all of 220 to four lanes betweend I-68 and Bedford? It seems like they are moving the money around in ways that don't make sense? Why do two corridors piecemeal?
There has always been talk of building an expressway from Maryland to the Turnpike along the 219 corridor (http://htp://www.us219.com) (even as a second round of Turnpike Extensions), but none about constructing one along 220. The focus of the latter has always been trying to connect both major east-west routes, which it finally did.
The Meyersdale to Somerset section of 219 was in the news a few months back, and it was mentioned that bidding could start November of this year.
Wait, weren't there proposals to extend I-99 south to Cumberland along US 220? It would be a better terminus than Bedford, even for a horribly-misnumbered route.
Quote from: Henry on March 24, 2014, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: PAHighways on April 14, 2010, 11:39:52 PM
Quote from: LeftyJR on April 14, 2010, 12:53:43 PMJeff, how does this play into the US-219 upgrade that WV/PA/MD is fighting for? With all the play on upgrading US-220 between Corridor H and I-68, why wouldn't they just upgrade all of 220 to four lanes betweend I-68 and Bedford? It seems like they are moving the money around in ways that don't make sense? Why do two corridors piecemeal?
There has always been talk of building an expressway from Maryland to the Turnpike along the 219 corridor (http://htp://www.us219.com) (even as a second round of Turnpike Extensions), but none about constructing one along 220. The focus of the latter has always been trying to connect both major east-west routes, which it finally did.
The Meyersdale to Somerset section of 219 was in the news a few months back, and it was mentioned that bidding could start November of this year.
Wait, weren't there proposals to extend I-99 south to Cumberland along US 220? It would be a better terminus than Bedford, even for a horribly-misnumbered route.
Yes, there were. Maryland did some preparatory work by replacing Bedford Road (now secret MD 807) with a new, straight alignment that runs from the Mason-Dixon Line due south to a diamond interchange with MD 144 and I-68.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 24, 2014, 12:25:37 PM
Quote from: froggie on March 24, 2014, 11:17:27 AM
QuoteCorridor D proved to be wide-open, no traffic lights and nobody on the road,
There's a signal now...at WV 98. Also at the I-77 and I-79 ramps.
Yeah, I meant no lights between those two Interstates (which you note is no longer the case). I just didn't feel that level of specificity was needed. It's still a much easier ride than Pennsylvania's Interstates, though maybe not in the snow (I have not had reason to find out).
I drove US 50 between the two 'burgs late last summer. I had been across it at least twice before, but it was curvier and hillier than I remembered.
As to the nature of I-68, it's definitely more mountainous than the PA Turnpike. Of course, there's a lot less traffic than the turnpike, so that balances out a bit.
First time I was ever on the route was when it was still US 48, back in the early 1980s. It, along with I-70 between Hancock and Frederick, was crawling with Maryland state troopers. One would actually be standing behind an open door of his cruiser, holding a radar gun pointing at oncoming traffic, with several other cars ready to pursue and stop anyone the cop with the handheld targeted.
Quote from: froggie on March 24, 2014, 11:17:27 AM
QuoteCorridor D proved to be wide-open, no traffic lights and nobody on the road,
There's a signal now...at WV 98. Also at the I-77 and I-79 ramps.
There's also been a traffic light at Bridgeport Hill Road just west of I-79 for years.
WVDOH has a contract letting out to install a signal at US 50 and WV 18 by West Union this spring to replace the flasher there now. I'm not really sure why since there are generally large gaps in traffic in US 50 and there isn't a ton of cross traffic.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 24, 2014, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on March 23, 2014, 07:29:59 PM
Also, what is with the land clearing on the hill by milepost 128 on the PA Turnpike?
I think that is associated with the New Baltimore Slide Remediation project.
Thanks, I think you are right.
Why though in comparing the PATP vs I-68 is I-68 so much more scenic and mountainous?
They are maybe 50 miles apart, both still in the Allegheny region, so how is it on I-68 you get a real feel of the hills, your ears pop, whereas the PATP you never really get that feeling? By coincidence did the PATP happen to find the right section of the mountains with valleys and drops?
Quote from: bluecountry on March 29, 2014, 10:45:55 AM
Why though in comparing the PATP vs I-68 is I-68 so much more scenic and mountainous?
They are maybe 50 miles apart, both still in the Allegheny region, so how is it on I-68 you get a real feel of the hills, your ears pop, whereas the PATP you never really get that feeling? By coincidence did the PATP happen to find the right section of the mountains with valleys and drops?
The oldest section of the PA Turnpike (the section that is north of I-68) was an abandoned railroad grade. That's why is't relatively flat and straight. As for scenery, well...beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find it scenic, but that's just me.
Quote from: signalman on March 29, 2014, 11:05:20 AM
The oldest section of the PA Turnpike (the section that is north of I-68) was an abandoned railroad grade. That's why is't relatively flat and straight.
And low. It was designed to be as low in elevation as possible, so as to avoid the icy winter conditions that plagued US 30 between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh, which it replaced.
I'm guessing that the lower elevation is one of the biggest reasons you find the PA Turnpike less scenic: fewer big-ticket views.
FWIW:
http://www.statejournal.com/story/26539668/plans-moving-forward-for-moundsville-to-morgantown-highway
I wonder if they will build this route as a limited-access interstate or as a four-lane surface route?
If the former, and with a few improvements to the US 250/WV 2 freeway south of Wheeling, I-68 could be extended to I-70, and it really would be the alternative route to Ohio and points west that Maryland advertises it to be.
Won't all the gas will be gone by the time this would be finished? Or they'll hit enough dry holes to quit even earlier.
This has been around for a decade or more. WVDOH had a page specifically on this project but was removed for a lack of activity. The state has more pressing needs - like finishing Corridor H, King Coal/Tulsia and Coalfields.
Sherman is right. It has really been more like 3 decades or more. There was a daft proposal for a toll road, back in the mid 80s. Lasted about 4 seconds after somebody ran the projected traffic volumes.
The area just west of Monongalia valley to just east of the Ohio valley is one of the most unpopulated (mainly because there is NOTHING THERE) places east of the Mississippi. Other than allowing WVU fans from the dying panhandle to get to games without having to leave the state (but not cutting the actual driving time at all) this all serves no purpose at all.
So this would not present a free bypass alternative to 70 and the PA PIke?
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on September 17, 2014, 10:23:43 PM
So this would not present a free bypass alternative to 70 and the PA PIke?
I-68/I-79 already serves as a free bypass of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
WV 7/US 250 is useless as a through corridor between Morgantown and the Northern Panhandle right now. WV 7 is somewhat OK but US 250 is atrocious, especially between WV 7 and WV 891. Rebuilt 2-lane roads would be more than adequate for the traffic and would provide a lot more connectivity than an I-68 extension ever would.
Quote from: dave19 on September 17, 2014, 12:43:43 PM
FWIW:
http://www.statejournal.com/story/26539668/plans-moving-forward-for-moundsville-to-morgantown-highway
Funny you should bring this up, because this caught my attention:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwtrf.images.worldnow.com%2Fimages%2F4748939_G.jpg&hash=235ee082b6ec2a1f129f3f4528ce569afdbd3382)
Funny how?
Henry, that map was the only reason I made that post. I don't think that project will ever happen.
To experience the true joy that is the national freeway, drive it in a semi. There is no clue that it is going to cause your truck to slow to a crawl, make your temperature spike to 220, etc. and then cause you to ride your brakes, or use your jake a crap ton.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 10:47:11 AM
To experience the true joy that is the national freeway, drive it in a semi. There is no clue that it is going to cause your truck to slow to a crawl, make your temperature spike to 220, etc. and then cause you to ride your brakes, or use your jake a crap ton.
I-68 goes through the mountains. This really shouldn't be unexpected.
Quote from: Bitmapped on September 21, 2014, 11:02:10 AM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 10:47:11 AM
To experience the true joy that is the national freeway, drive it in a semi. There is no clue that it is going to cause your truck to slow to a crawl, make your temperature spike to 220, etc. and then cause you to ride your brakes, or use your jake a crap ton.
I-68 goes through the mountains. This really shouldn't be unexpected.
Problem is they put up signs "Alt Route To Ohio And Points West" without warning about the terrain, for someone who has never been on it, and is used to the fairly level turnpike that goes through the same basic area...
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
Problem is they put up signs "Alt Route To Ohio And Points West" without warning about the terrain, for someone who has never been on it, and is used to the fairly level turnpike that goes through the same basic area...
I've never been able to figure out why Maryland disses the PA Turnpike so much that they're promoting the alternate route so heavily. Do they really think people are going to drop megabucks in the Cumberland-LaVale area? (Which is really the only place where services are available). Or did West Virginia pay them to put up the signs so people would stop at Morgantown?
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2014, 01:01:55 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 12:10:12 PM
Problem is they put up signs "Alt Route To Ohio And Points West" without warning about the terrain, for someone who has never been on it, and is used to the fairly level turnpike that goes through the same basic area...
I've never been able to figure out why Maryland disses the PA Turnpike so much that they're promoting the alternate route so heavily. Do they really think people are going to drop megabucks in the Cumberland-LaVale area? (Which is really the only place where services are available). Or did West Virginia pay them to put up the signs so people would stop at Morgantown?
They hoped that having an interstate would make people more likely to travel through the backwoods of MD. Bugo has a theory as to that if I-76 would go to AC it would increase tourism to the shore. same theory in play here.
Or maybe someone in the MdTA sign shop hates Breezewood as much as some of this forum's members.
Perhaps Pennsylvania should retaliate and put signs on I-70 approaching Washington noting that I-70/PA Turnpike has better alignment and grades than I-68 -- "Better Route to Baltimore and Washington DC."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages068%2Fi-068_et_22.jpg&hash=4b062ed9118f5642a34ebd9e52dca8bcd76ca962)
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
Or maybe someone in the MdTA sign shop hates Breezewood as much as some of this forum's members.
Perhaps Pennsylvania should retaliate and put signs on I-70 approaching Washington noting that I-70/PA Turnpike has better alignment and grades than I-68 -- "Better Route to Baltimore and Washington DC."
SHA, not MdTA. ;-)
I ran the miles from where I am now (Denver, Colorado) back home to Maryland.
1699 miles via I-70 to California, Pennsylvania, then the Pa. 43 toll road, then I-68 east and back to I-70 at Hancock, Maryland.
1689 miles staying with I-70 via Breezewood.
That's enough reason to take the Breezewood Avoidance Route.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2014, 01:01:55 PM
I've never been able to figure out why Maryland disses the PA Turnpike so much that they're promoting the alternate route so heavily. Do they really think people are going to drop megabucks in the Cumberland-LaVale area? (Which is really the only place where services are available). Or did West Virginia pay them to put up the signs so people would stop at Morgantown?
There's gas at Flintstone, Maryland (I-68 Exit 56).
There's also gas (including a Pilot) at the US 219 North exit (Exit 22), the Grantsville exit (Exit 19), and Keyser's Ridge (Exit 14/US 219 South/US 40 West).
Many years ago, once I-68 was complete, I experimented with: 70 to 68 to 40 to 43 to 70 to 79. When going DC to northern Pittsburgh. It took exactly the same amount of time as via Breezewood, only the small 43 toll and was soooooooooooo much less stressful.
With the new Brownsville bypass bridge complete along PA 43 Toll, it's become about 10 minutes quicker.
Quote from: froggie on September 22, 2014, 08:30:15 AM
There's also gas (including a Pilot) at the US 219 North exit (Exit 22), the Grantsville exit (Exit 19), and Keyser's Ridge (Exit 14/US 219 South/US 40 West).
I am familiar with the Exit 22 Pilot, if you're driving a truck, use the OTHER truck stop to park. The Pilot is tiny compared to it. parking is at a premium there, the truck stop with the burger king is awesome for parking.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on September 22, 2014, 12:53:57 AM
I ran the miles from where I am now (Denver, Colorado) back home to Maryland.
1699 miles via I-70 to California, Pennsylvania, then the Pa. 43 toll road, then I-68 east and back to I-70 at Hancock, Maryland.
1689 miles staying with I-70 via Breezewood.
That's enough reason to take the Breezewood Avoidance Route.
Did you run the miles for I-79 to I-68?
I know there are services available along I-68 (I'm most familiar with those between the WV state line and the US 220 north exit, as several of my trips along I-68 have involved me departing the interstate for US 220 north), but there's no great concentration of them the way there is at Breezewood and the service plazas, where there is a captive audience. (And to a lesser extent, Bedford and Somerset, although using them requires exiting the Turnpike). I've used the Burger King at Cheat Lake and a couple of the restaurants along the Maryland portion at the US 219 exits.
One of the things that puzzled me was why a new Microtel was built at the Hazelton Road exit in West Virginia, since there are hardly any other services nearby. Then when I found out there's a federal prison at Hazelton, it made sense to me. I guess it serves visitors, inspectors/evaluators and prisoners who have to check in first thing the next morning.
Denver - Baltimore on Google maps (I have ignored stuff in St Louis area as well as both ends)
I-70 - PA43 - US40 - I-68 - I-70: 1661 miles (Google's recommendation)
I-70: 1670 miles
I-70 - I-79 - I-68 - I-70: 1677 miles
I-70 - PA43 - MD43 - I-68 - I-70: 1680 miles
I-70 - US250 - I-79 - I-68 - I-70: 1683 miles*
I-70 - US33 - US50 - I-79 - I-68 - I-70: 1687 miles
I-76 - I-80 - I-76 - I-70: 1691 miles
I-70 - I-74 - OH32 - US50 - I-79 - I-68 - I-70: 1702 miles**
I-70 - I-64 - I-79 - I-68 - I-70: 1715 miles
*An I-68 extension to Wheeling would knock off a couple of miles.
**Before the I-74 extension idea came about and dragged an southern cross-Ohio freeway SE, there was I-68 to Cincinnati.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 09:28:09 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages068%2Fi-068_et_22.jpg&hash=4b062ed9118f5642a34ebd9e52dca8bcd76ca962)
I take it this is in or near Frederick?
Quote from: hbelkins on September 21, 2014, 08:44:40 PM
Or maybe someone in the MdTA SHA sign shop hates Breezewood as much as some of this forum's members.
Perhaps Pennsylvania should retaliate and put signs on I-70 approaching Washington noting that I-70/PA Turnpike has better alignment and grades than I-68 -- "Better Route to Baltimore and Washington DC."
Now that would be funny if that were to happen!
^^ the photo is on I-270 approaching Frederick.
As I alluded to in another thread, if the Maryland General Assembly had passed the bill allowing SHA and MdTA to raise speed limits to 70mph where possible, I would have definitely expected I-68 to be one of the first beneficiaries. The signs shown above and the amount of promotion that it gets locally in western MD suggests that a very strong desire exists to retain all that tax revenue associated with long-distance traffic instead of giving it away to PA...
What I don't understand is why the sign spells out "VIA I-70" as it does instead of using a shield. It suggests that it was either left out of the original design or was added after the sign was erected.
Also, bridge folks should know that the bridge in the background might be an original 1950s-era SRC overpass, in whole or in part.
Quote from: TheOneKEA on September 23, 2014, 06:41:54 PM
What I don't understand is why the sign spells out "VIA I-70" as it does instead of using a shield. It suggests that it was either left out of the original design or was added after the sign was erected.
Even more interesting is the I glyph used here. The standard Series E(M) glyph for an I looks very different compared to that one.
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland070/i-070_wb_exit_005_01.jpg)
Yeah, that is the sign. WTF.
First, I-68 does not go to Ohio. It ends in Morgantown, WV, 50 mountainous miles and several hours from Ohio, unless the motorist goes north to return to the route the motorist is already on (I-70) or south to Corridor D and an eventual return to I-70.
Second, what is "Points West" ? Indiana? Iowa?
Third, WV isn't in on the scam. No sign on I-79 advertises I-68 as anything but the route to Cumberland. Not, say, "Baltimore and the Shore" and, if you were navigating by the sign westward, nothing in Morgantown says anything but Fairmont or Washington (the one in PA). No signage to direct one to either Corridor D or back to I-70.
Can anybody else think of a similar sign? By which I mean a sign in one jurisdiction that touts that state's routes over other just as, or more, logical routes?
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 21, 2014, 09:28:09 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.interstate-guide.com%2Fimages068%2Fi-068_et_22.jpg&hash=4b062ed9118f5642a34ebd9e52dca8bcd76ca962)
I drive by this sign along I-270 on occasion, and I've always thought it navigationally unnecessary. I-68 runs as a marked alternate to I-70, but from this point in southern Frederick County, the motorist will be on I-70 itself for over 50 miles (the primary route) before intersecting I-68. Furthermore, the banners "ALT ROUTE WEST" and "VIA I-70" are counterintuitive when they are placed in relation to the same sign.
The signs along I-70 10 miles out from its interchange with I-68 (also shared on this topic) make much more sense.
I think this sign is part of the larger political effort to market western Maryland, and it gives the state government an excuse for the chronically distressed communities out there: "See? We're doing our best to direct traffic out your way."
The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is about to select a "preferred alternative" for their Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project soon, and I anticipate that it will involve six lanes regardless of whether it involves a bypass or a new tunnel. This goes along with the design work underway for multiple segments of the Turnpike between the Allegheny Front and Breezewood, plus the ongoing reconstruction of I-70 south of Pittsburgh. It appears that Pennsylvania is throwing down the gauntlet now.
I recently drove a segment of I-68 from U.S. 40 in Maryland west to Morgantown, and I was struck by the long, steep grades relative to the Turnpike, so I'm not sure how practical it is for long-distance truck traffic, especially considering I-68 still ends at I-79. By 2020, the only arguments Maryland and West Virginia will have left will be "Breezewood" and "Speers-Belle Vernon Bridge."
Quote from: Gnutella on September 26, 2014, 11:14:33 AM
The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission is about to select a "preferred alternative" for their Allegheny Mountain Tunnel project soon, and I anticipate that it will involve six lanes regardless of whether it involves a bypass or a new tunnel. This goes along with the design work underway for multiple segments of the Turnpike between the Allegheny Front and Breezewood, plus the ongoing reconstruction of I-70 south of Pittsburgh. It appears that Pennsylvania is throwing down the gauntlet now.
I recently drove a segment of I-68 from U.S. 40 in Maryland west to Morgantown, and I was struck by the long, steep grades relative to the Turnpike, so I'm not sure how practical it is for long-distance truck traffic, especially considering I-68 still ends at I-79. By 2020, the only arguments Maryland and West Virginia will have left will be "Breezewood" and "Speers-Belle Vernon Bridge."
And "Tolls"
I think these signs are making sense. Because not everyone knows where I-68 (or Cumberland, MD) is. I realize that I-68 acts as an alternative to I-70 and the Turnpike in PA, but i think it is a poor job in WV for not signing which to go to reach I-70, Ohio and points west. (you can either go north on I-79, go down to US 250 or take WV/PA 43).
Tried the Breezewood Avoidance Route - I-70 eastbound from Wheeling, W.Va. to Pa. 43, then south on 43 to I-68 in West Virginia, then east to I-70 in Hancock, Maryland.
Relatively little traffic, but it struck me that a lot of the tractor-trailer traffic were permitted (overdimensional) loads (long, wide or high).
The Allegheny Tunnel is obviously a barrier to overhight loads, but perhaps not to overwidth and overlength cargo.
Could they be staying with toll-free I-68 to save money?
Quote from: Strider on September 26, 2014, 01:01:28 PM
I think these signs are making sense. Because not everyone knows where I-68 (or Cumberland, MD) is. I realize that I-68 acts as an alternative to I-70 and the Turnpike in PA, but i think it is a poor job in WV for not signing which to go to reach I-70, Ohio and points west. (you can either go north on I-79, go down to US 250 or take WV/PA 43).
West Virginia really doesn't have a dog in that fight. If Maryland is signing I-68 as an alternative to the PA Turnpike to direct traffic (and commerce) to Cumberland and vicinity, then that's totally a Maryland-centric venture.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2014, 03:26:21 PM
Quote from: Strider on September 26, 2014, 01:01:28 PM
I think these signs are making sense. Because not everyone knows where I-68 (or Cumberland, MD) is. I realize that I-68 acts as an alternative to I-70 and the Turnpike in PA, but i think it is a poor job in WV for not signing which to go to reach I-70, Ohio and points west. (you can either go north on I-79, go down to US 250 or take WV/PA 43).
West Virginia really doesn't have a dog in that fight. If Maryland is signing I-68 as an alternative to the PA Turnpike to direct traffic (and commerce) to Cumberland and vicinity, then that's totally a Maryland-centric venture.
WV gets fringe benefits basically.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 26, 2014, 03:26:21 PM
West Virginia really doesn't have a dog in that fight. If Maryland is signing I-68 as an alternative to the PA Turnpike to direct traffic (and commerce) to Cumberland and vicinity, then that's totally a Maryland-centric venture.
As long as Pennsylvania keeps its breezewoods and charges high (and higher) tolls for a Turnpike that is not at all better than "free" roads in other states, I have no problem with Maryland doing that (and I have absolutely no say-so about it).
QuoteCould they be staying with toll-free I-68 to save money?
This could make for an interesting analysis. The big question that would need to be quantified would be how the significant up-and-down hills along the 68 corridor would affect both their speed and their fuel consumption.
Quote from: Gnutella on September 26, 2014, 11:14:33 AMI recently drove a segment of I-68 from U.S. 40 in Maryland west to Morgantown, and I was struck by the long, steep grades relative to the Turnpike, so I'm not sure how practical it is for long-distance truck traffic, especially considering I-68 still ends at I-79.
I took the I-70 -> I-68 -> I-79 routing back from Gettysburg in a 2001 Ford Ranger 4-cylinder a few years ago. This particular Ranger was far from healthy (I suspect a plugged catalytic converter). The hills on I-68 were simply brutal; I spent a lot of time in 3rd gear, sometimes 2nd gear, floored to maintain 35-40mph. At the crests, I'd get maybe a half-mile of 4th or 5th gear before having to drop back down to 3rd to take it easy on the brakes going downhill.
My DD13 Equipped semi gets 5.9MPG averaging out from Mullica Hill NJ to Mount Sterling KY, it gets 7.5-8mpg on flat land runs.
Quote from: Strider on September 26, 2014, 01:01:28 PM
I think these signs are making sense. Because not everyone knows where I-68 (or Cumberland, MD) is. I realize that I-68 acts as an alternative to I-70 and the Turnpike in PA, but i think it is a poor job in WV for not signing which to go to reach I-70, Ohio and points west. (you can either go north on I-79, go down to US 250 or take WV/PA 43).
Through traffic does not use US 250 between Fairmont and Moundsville. WV does sign the distance to Washington, PA along I-68 and lists Washington, PA as the control city at the I-79/I-68 interchange.
The control cities for I-79 should be Charleston and Pittsburgh with Washington, PA and Fairmont on secondary signs.
Quote from: amroad17 on October 01, 2014, 05:46:30 AM
The control cities for I-79 should be Charleston and Pittsburgh with Washington, PA and Fairmont on secondary signs.
And Beckley or Bluefield alternating with Charleston, since a fair amount of traffic is forking off onto Corridor L.
If I'm not mistaken, Beckley shows up on a mileage sign shortly after I-79 southbound enters WV, but I can't remember if you see Beckley again until the actual US 19 exit.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2014, 03:34:38 PM
If I'm not mistaken, Beckley shows up on a mileage sign shortly after I-79 southbound enters WV, but I can't remember if you see Beckley again until the actual US 19 exit.
There is a goofy combo southbound that reads something like "TRUCKS: Use I-79 to US 19 Exit 57 - Beckley" just before the first (of dozens) exits for US 19, which is the second exit in the state. I suppose people with the simple directions of "take 79 to 19 to 77" could get confused and take the first US 19 exit they come to. (19 and 79 roughly parallel each other until Exit 57 when 19 becomes Corridor L and the better route south and 79 turns westward). The rest of the interactions with 19 omit the route sign from the exits southbound (as does I-77 Exit 20 northbound).
Unexplained is why the sign reads "Trucks".
Once upon a time, you could see the shadows where the US 19 marker was removed from the exit signs for the US 19 Roanoke exit south of Weston.
Quote from: amroad17 on October 01, 2014, 05:46:30 AM
The control cities for I-79 should be Charleston and Pittsburgh with Washington, PA and Fairmont on secondary signs.
Duh! I always thought that large cities and those at an Interstate's terminus should get the primary treatment. Which is why it irks me that Philadelphia doesn't get the same respect as New York on I-95 headed north from Washington and Baltimore. (but that's for another topic)
Quote from: hbelkins on October 02, 2014, 10:29:54 AM
Once upon a time, you could see the shadows where the US 19 marker was removed from the exit signs for the US 19 Roanoke exit south of Weston.
Those signs you speak of were replaced within the past year.
Are they Clearview now? I haven't been on I-79 since last August.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2014, 02:07:15 PM
Are they Clearview now? I haven't been on I-79 since last August.
No. They were a WVDOH in-house replacement, so they are in FHWA alphabet.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2014, 02:07:15 PM
Are they Clearview now? I haven't been on I-79 since last August.
No, they are not! :clap:
Southbound they say Stonewall Resort, then there's a line, then Roanoke at the bottom, with no indication of US 19. The northbound signs do include a US 19 shield.
Quote from: SP Cook on September 24, 2014, 07:51:42 AM
Yeah, that is the sign. WTF.
First, I-68 does not go to Ohio. It ends in Morgantown, WV, 50 mountainous miles and several hours from Ohio, unless the motorist goes north to return to the route the motorist is already on (I-70) or south to Corridor D and an eventual return to I-70.
Second, what is "Points West" ? Indiana? Iowa?
Third, WV isn't in on the scam. No sign on I-79 advertises I-68 as anything but the route to Cumberland. Not, say, "Baltimore and the Shore" and, if you were navigating by the sign westward, nothing in Morgantown says anything but Fairmont or Washington (the one in PA). No signage to direct one to either Corridor D or back to I-70.
Can anybody else think of a similar sign? By which I mean a sign in one jurisdiction that touts that state's routes over other just as, or more, logical routes?
Exactly. I wouldn't mind the sign if I-68 actually traveled to Ohio and "Points West".
Instead, for knowledgeable road geeks, we know the difference. For a naïve traveler, who doesn't, well I just pray there isn't an accident caused by the trickery.
Frankly, the sign smacks of Turnpike envy.
If Pennsylvania wanted to be dicks, they'd put something on I-95 southbound saying 'alternate route to Baltimore: take US 322 west to US 1 south'.
Quote from: TheKnightoftheInterstate on October 13, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
For a naïve traveler, who doesn't, well I just pray there isn't an accident caused by the trickery.
Huh?
What kind of accident would there be??? Someone without a GPS/Atlas/Any kind of pre-trip planning sees the "Ohio and West" sign, takes I-68 - and when it ends at I-79 and they're not in Ohio (or west), they decide to come to a complete stop in the middle of the interstate out of frustration causing rear-end accidents? That sounds ridiculous.
Or, when I-68 ends - not in Ohio- they don't know what to do and end up so lost, and refusing to find somewhere for bathroom breaks, end up having an "accident"??
While the the navigation value of the sign is up for discussion, I feel pretty confident it won't directly lead to any accidents (certainly nothing worthy of prayer).
Quote from: Mr_Northside on October 14, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
Quote from: TheKnightoftheInterstate on October 13, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
For a naïve traveler, who doesn't, well I just pray there isn't an accident caused by the trickery.
Huh?
What kind of accident would there be??? Someone without a GPS/Atlas/Any kind of pre-trip planning sees the "Ohio and West" sign, takes I-68 - and when it ends at I-79 and they're not in Ohio (or west), they decide to come to a complete stop in the middle of the interstate out of frustration causing rear-end accidents? That sounds ridiculous.
Or, when I-68 ends - not in Ohio- they don't know what to do and end up so lost, and refusing to find somewhere for bathroom breaks, end up having an "accident"??
While the the navigation value of the sign is up for discussion, I feel pretty confident it won't directly lead to any accidents (certainly nothing worthy of prayer).
Confused humans have a way of surprising you during their desperation. If they end up in 1-79 and are completely disoriented, who knows?
Either way, the sign is just foolish and petty for an Interstate highway.
I believe anything is worthy of prayer, but this is not a theological board.
Good god.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on October 14, 2014, 03:55:42 PM
Quote from: TheKnightoftheInterstate on October 13, 2014, 05:44:57 PM
For a naïve traveler, who doesn't, well I just pray there isn't an accident caused by the trickery.
Huh?
What kind of accident would there be??? Someone without a GPS/Atlas/Any kind of pre-trip planning sees the "Ohio and West" sign, takes I-68 - and when it ends at I-79 and they're not in Ohio (or west), they decide to come to a complete stop in the middle of the interstate out of frustration causing rear-end accidents? That sounds ridiculous.
Or, when I-68 ends - not in Ohio- they don't know what to do and end up so lost, and refusing to find somewhere for bathroom breaks, end up having an "accident"??
While the the navigation value of the sign is up for discussion, I feel pretty confident it won't directly lead to any accidents (certainly nothing worthy of prayer).
Someone much smarter than me once said something to the effect "Never underestimate the stupidity of the American public." I'd like to think Mark Twain, but it was more likely PT Barnum.
Quote from: NE2 on October 13, 2014, 07:09:14 PM
If Pennsylvania wanted to be dicks, they'd put something on I-95 southbound saying 'alternate route to Baltimore: take US 322 west to US 1 south'.
Not that Chester Co really needs the help.