Does anyone know why county border signs aren't posted on the NYS Thruway? New York is consistent with marking county lines everywhere else. Just wondering...
NYSDOT and the NYSTA (Thruway Authority) are two different jurisdictions. For whatever reason, the latter chose not to sign county borders.
It seems like turnpikes are in general rather lax about signing county lines. As far as I know, the Chickasaw Turnpike is the only one in OK that has county line signage (not really an accomplishment because the Chickasaw crosses only one line). I think the NJ Turnpike also lacks county line signage.
On another note, are county line markers really necessary on major highways in the first place?
Absolutely. Different counties have different laws, after all. In Oklahoma, roads default to 55 MPH if not posted, unless the county changes that; for example, in McClain County, all unposted CRs default to 45 MPH. Also different counties have different fine structures, and in OK and TX at least, you send payment to the county clerk's office.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2010, 09:16:18 PM
I think the NJ Turnpike also lacks county line signage.
New Jersey lacks county sinage in general. The Garden State Parkway is the only road, that I know of, that marks counties consistently. All other roads are marked with "home-made" signs, as I call them--if they are marked at all.
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2010, 09:16:18 PM
It seems like turnpikes are in general rather lax about signing county lines. As far as I know, the Chickasaw Turnpike is the only one in OK that has county line signage (not really an accomplishment because the Chickasaw crosses only one line). I think the NJ Turnpike also lacks county line signage.
The Muskogee-Wagoner county line is signed on the Muskogee Turnpike.
Once I emailed the Thruway, and their response on the issue was that it would be "distracting" for drivers if they erected county line signs on the highway, an excuse which I find highly ridiculous.
They should at least do something for all the money we all have to needlessly pump into their pockets.. :-P
QuoteOn another note, are county line markers really necessary on major highways in the first place?
If I enter one of those dry counties of Mississippi where possession is prohibited and I have a couple kegs in my trunk that I'm taking from Texas to Alabama, I damn well better have some signage telling me what county I'm entering.
Quote from: corco on March 06, 2010, 12:54:01 AM
QuoteOn another note, are county line markers really necessary on major highways in the first place?
If I enter one of those dry counties of Mississippi where possession is prohibited and I have a couple kegs in my trunk that I'm taking from Texas to Alabama, I damn well better have some signage telling me what county I'm entering.
Do the Mississippi county signs say if it's a dry county? Otherwise, how would you know?
County boundaries are signed on the Kansas Turnpike and in Kansas you pay speeding tickets at the county courthouse.
QuoteDo the Mississippi county signs say if it's a dry county? Otherwise, how would you know?
No they don't. And by the book, if you're transporting such liquid, you should know before you do the transporting.
Quote from: froggie on March 06, 2010, 07:45:32 AMNo they don't. And by the book, if you're transporting such liquid, you should know before you do the transporting.
But can they really prohibit transportation of alcoholic beverages so long as the containers remain sealed (push tabs not opened, tax seals left undisturbed, etc.)? I suspect any attempt to prohibit transport (as opposed to consumption) would run foul of the interstate commerce clause.
Quote from: Snappyjack on March 06, 2010, 12:33:10 AM
Once I emailed the Thruway, and their response on the issue was that it would be "distracting" for drivers if they erected county line signs on the highway, an excuse which I find highly ridiculous.
They should at least do something for all the money we all have to needlessly pump into their pockets.. :-P
Who do they think we are? Idiots? That's not only a ridiculous response, but its also insulting because its so blatant a lie. Why don't you write them back and tell them that speed limit signs are "distracting"? Or better yet... "Pay toll ahead"... VERY distracting!
Interstate commerce clauses do not apply here, since Mississippi has a permitting process. Those with a valid permit are allowed to transport through dry counties. But if you don't have a permit, you cannot transport through a dry county.
QuoteDo the Mississippi county signs say if it's a dry county? Otherwise, how would you know?
General rule of thumb I realized driving across Texas- the best indicator of a dry county was that there'd usually be a bar and liquor store right at the adjacent county line. So as soon as you'd enter a dry county you'd pass a bar, and as soon as you'd leave one you'd pass a bar. I'd assume the same holds true in Mississippi
Quote
Who do they think we are? Idiots? That's not only a ridiculous response, but its also insulting because its so blatant a lie. Why don't you write them back and tell them that speed limit signs are "distracting"? Or better yet... "Pay toll ahead"... VERY distracting!
And last time I checked, billboards were allowed on the Thruway
QuoteGeneral rule of thumb I realized driving across Texas- the best indicator of a dry county was that there'd usually be a bar and liquor store right at the adjacent county line. So as soon as you'd enter a dry county you'd pass a bar, and as soon as you'd leave one you'd pass a bar. I'd assume the same holds true in Mississippi
Not really...
Well, that sucks then
Quote from: corco on March 06, 2010, 12:54:01 AM
If I enter one of those dry counties of Mississippi where possession is prohibited and I have a couple kegs in my trunk that I'm taking from Texas to Alabama, I damn well better have some signage telling me what county I'm entering.
Are you saying that possession of alcohol is prohibited in Mississippi counties where the sale of alcohol is prohibited?
That's not the case in Kentucky. You are allowed to possess and use alcohol in dry counties here, you just can't buy it legally. There's no law that says you can't buy a case of beer in a wet county and take it to your home in a dry county and drink it there.
Quote from: froggie on March 05, 2010, 08:59:07 PM
NYSDOT and the NYSTA (Thruway Authority) are two different jurisdictions. For whatever reason, the latter chose not to sign county borders.
NY Thruway and NJ Tpk have never had co line signs and in all likelihood never will.
First off they do not need them.
If you notice there are 2/10 mile markers and that is what they go by.
Traffic summonses on the NJ Tpk are written to the municipal court based on the above mileposting, with the exception of Bergen Co which go to a special county (municipal) court.
Traffic summonses on the thruway are written to the town court based on the 2/10 mileposting.
Continuing, the traffic engineers for both the Thruway Authority and the NJ Tpk feel there are enough signs under their jurisdiction and they do not want any more.
Quote from: papaT10932 on March 05, 2010, 09:48:24 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2010, 09:16:18 PM
I think the NJ Turnpike also lacks county line signage.
New Jersey lacks county sinage in general. The Garden State Parkway is the only road, that I know of, that marks counties consistently. All other roads are marked with "home-made" signs, as I call them--if they are marked at all.
You would be correct. But note the GSP does not sign for municipal boundaries
The municipal boundary line signs are what matters, and that is what people in NJ are interested in.
Several years ago NJDOT let a signing contract that signed all the municipal boundaries on the state hwy system.
Unfortunately, for the most part, co line signing in NJ would be superfluous.
For instance on I-80 wb you go from Wayne, Passaic Co, to Fairfield, Essex Co, to Montville, Morris Co in maybe 5 miles.
And on 280 do you really want co line signing for Essex/Hudson Cos? Not really needed.
QuoteAre you saying that possession of alcohol is prohibited in Mississippi counties where the sale of alcohol is prohibited?
Correct. I never saw it enforced during my 7 years there, but that is the case.
Sammack: it's a consistency thing...or in the case of Jersey and the NY Thruway, a lack of consistency (BTW, Thruway has 1/10 milemarkers).
IMO all roads should have BOTH 1/10 mileposting and county line signing.
Interstate 380 is signed for its short entrance into Wayne County PA and into Lackawanna about 1/10 mile later.
Quote from: froggie on March 07, 2010, 07:33:12 AM
Sammack: it's a consistency thing...or in the case of Jersey and the NY Thruway, a lack of consistency (BTW, Thruway has 1/10 milemarkers).
As long as they are separate authorities it is very unlikely to change
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2010, 09:16:18 PM
It seems like turnpikes are in general rather lax about signing county lines. As far as I know, the Chickasaw Turnpike is the only one in OK that has county line signage (not really an accomplishment because the Chickasaw crosses only one line). I think the NJ Turnpike also lacks county line signage.
The Creek/Choctaw Nation boundary (the South Canadian River) is marked on the Indian Nation Turnpike but the McIntosh/Pittsburg County line isn't.
Jeremy, did you know there is a bug making a figure 8 beneath your username and information on your blog posts? Might want to spray your computer with Raid. :-D :-D :-D
Quote from: hbelkins on March 18, 2010, 01:46:01 PM
Jeremy, did you know there is a bug making a figure 8 beneath your username and information on your blog posts? Might want to spray your computer with Raid. :-D :-D :-D
I've been trying to kill that little bastard for hours. Thanks for the heads up!
Quote from: corco on March 06, 2010, 10:16:19 AM
Quote
Who do they think we are? Idiots? That's not only a ridiculous response, but its also insulting because its so blatant a lie. Why don't you write them back and tell them that speed limit signs are "distracting"? Or better yet... "Pay toll ahead"... VERY distracting!
And last time I checked, billboards were allowed on the Thruway
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Quote
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Please provide me a milepost as to where billboards on the NJTP and ACE physically exist on the ROW.
As far as the NJTP goes, I believe all the billboards are in fact off the ROW. The NJTA is picky about that. I believe the SJTA doesn't care, though.
Quote from: sammack on March 21, 2010, 10:28:11 PM
Quote
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Please provide me a milepost as to where billboards on the NJTP and ACE physically exist on the ROW.
Why? Don't tell me you're going to cut them down now.
I'll have to check my facts on the NJTP. I think they are on the ROW in Linden Elizabeth and Newark...some of that could be port authority property or NJ-Transit property, but i'm pretty sure the NJTP started allowing billboards on the ROW in the mid 1990's. Interstate outdoor recently build more in the early 2000's that i thought were on NJTP ROW, but i've been out of the billbaord game for a while now, so i cannot remember. All the state agencies with land near highways have been exploring leasing un-used land to billboard operators...when NJ transit tracks run under an interstate, the railroad ROW often bumps right up against the highway, thus a billboard can be dropped in right next to the shoulder...I-287 is a good example of that.
Quote from: mc78andrew on March 24, 2010, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: sammack on March 21, 2010, 10:28:11 PM
Quote
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Please provide me a milepost as to where billboards on the NJTP and ACE physically exist on the ROW.
Why? Don't tell me you're going to cut them down now.
Please do not make absurd statements.
I'll have to check my facts on the NJTP. I think they are on the ROW in Linden Elizabeth and Newark...some of that could be port authority property or NJ-Transit property, but i'm pretty sure the NJTP started allowing billboards on the ROW in the mid 1990's. Interstate outdoor recently build more in the early 2000's that i thought were on NJTP ROW, but i've been out of the billbaord game for a while now, so i cannot remember. All the state agencies with land near highways have been exploring leasing un-used land to billboard operators...when NJ transit tracks run under an interstate, the railroad ROW often bumps right up against the highway, thus a billboard can be dropped in right next to the shoulder...I-287 is a good example of that.
No argument that Amtrak can sell rights to erect a billboard on its property visible from a overcrossing hwy.
The point remains that on the NJTPK as well as the ACE there are no billboards inside the ROW.
Just outside the ROW, is just that.
Quote from: sammack on March 25, 2010, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: mc78andrew on March 24, 2010, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: sammack on March 21, 2010, 10:28:11 PM
Quote
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Please provide me a milepost as to where billboards on the NJTP and ACE physically exist on the ROW.
Why? Don't tell me you're going to cut them down now.
Please do not make absurd statements.
I'll have to check my facts on the NJTP. I think they are on the ROW in Linden Elizabeth and Newark...some of that could be port authority property or NJ-Transit property, but i'm pretty sure the NJTP started allowing billboards on the ROW in the mid 1990's. Interstate outdoor recently build more in the early 2000's that i thought were on NJTP ROW, but i've been out of the billbaord game for a while now, so i cannot remember. All the state agencies with land near highways have been exploring leasing un-used land to billboard operators...when NJ transit tracks run under an interstate, the railroad ROW often bumps right up against the highway, thus a billboard can be dropped in right next to the shoulder...I-287 is a good example of that.
No argument that Amtrak can sell rights to erect a billboard on its property visible from a overcrossing hwy.
The point remains that on the NJTPK as well as the ACE there are no billboards inside the ROW.
Just outside the ROW, is just that.
Well, you seem to have quicker access to resources so please try to prove for me that this sign is not on the ACE ROW while i dig up proof that both agencies have at least one billboard on their respective ROWs.
Look at: ACE eastbound just west of the n. franklin blvd bridge. (last bridge before toll plaza) It's in pleasantville nj...nothing pleasant about that part of south jesery, i might add.
Give me a few days and i'll see if i can obtain a copy of a lease between a private billboard company and one of the agencies.
Quote from: mc78andrew on March 25, 2010, 08:31:33 PM
Quote from: sammack on March 25, 2010, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: mc78andrew on March 24, 2010, 09:27:01 PM
Quote from: sammack on March 21, 2010, 10:28:11 PM
Quote
Billboards are physically on the ROW on the NJTPK and the AC-Expressway. FHA regulations that prohibit billboards on the ROW do not apply to state owned or private tollroads.
Please provide me a milepost as to where billboards on the NJTP and ACE physically exist on the ROW.
Why? Don't tell me you're going to cut them down now.
Please do not make absurd statements.
I'll have to check my facts on the NJTP. I think they are on the ROW in Linden Elizabeth and Newark...some of that could be port authority property or NJ-Transit property, but i'm pretty sure the NJTP started allowing billboards on the ROW in the mid 1990's. Interstate outdoor recently build more in the early 2000's that i thought were on NJTP ROW, but i've been out of the billbaord game for a while now, so i cannot remember. All the state agencies with land near highways have been exploring leasing un-used land to billboard operators...when NJ transit tracks run under an interstate, the railroad ROW often bumps right up against the highway, thus a billboard can be dropped in right next to the shoulder...I-287 is a good example of that.
No argument that Amtrak can sell rights to erect a billboard on its property visible from a overcrossing hwy.
The point remains that on the NJTPK as well as the ACE there are no billboards inside the ROW.
Just outside the ROW, is just that.
Well, you seem to have quicker access to resources so please try to prove for me that this sign is not on the ACE ROW while i dig up proof that both agencies have at least one billboard on their respective ROWs.
Look at: ACE eastbound just west of the n. franklin blvd bridge. (last bridge before toll plaza) It's in pleasantville nj...nothing pleasant about that part of south jesery, i might add.
Give me a few days and i'll see if i can obtain a copy of a lease between a private billboard company and one of the agencies.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=franklin+blvd+pleasantville,+nj&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=27.976484,76.904297&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=N+Franklin+Blvd,+Pleasantville,+Atlantic,+New+Jersey+08232&ll=39.397303,-74.515302&spn=0.001679,0.004694&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.397248,-74.515212&panoid=zH4a9bxourC4M7u9SKR0LQ&cbp=12,141.82,,0,-11.15
you got me on this.
It is a shame that none of the traffic engs that work for the SJTA objected. It is beyond any bounds that something like this, which obviously distracts from the approaching toll booth advanced signage would be approved.
There is nothing remotely resembling anything like this on the NJTP.
There's no reason motorists shouldn't know what county they're in.
I should write the NYSTA and ask them why they don't post the county lines.
I wonder if they'll tell me that I'm an idiot.
Quote from: burgess87 on March 29, 2010, 05:23:24 PM
There's no reason motorists shouldn't know what county they're in.
I should write the NYSTA and ask them why they don't post the county lines.
I wonder if they'll tell me that I'm an idiot.
No, they will not tell you that. But what they will tell you is this:
The engineers of the Thruway Authority feel there are enough signs and there is no need for additional signage.
Also consider the cost of two signs or each county line change with fabrication, supports, and the cost of installation. As I said, they do not feel they need them.
No matter how you feel, it will not happen.