Looks like they're back at work replacing signs.
Noticed this from a PennDOT camera along I-79 (yes, I am bored enough to peep that shit, and then post about it)....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2F%7Evze3kr2y%2Fpics%2Ferrorsign.jpg&hash=2bb25f7782f00cabcc47ebc48f8932b95846f497)
Of course, this new sign has a slight error, with that "West" next to the 376. (The tab & destinations show the sign is obviously for both directions of the Parkway)
I'd like to think the reason PennDOT is/was pointing the camera close up to the sign was because they noticed the same thing. Who knows.
Isn't "International" usually "Int'l" instead of that extended consonant gbbrsh?
"Pgh" also doesn't mean much. How about using the airport's official IATA code instead which is PIT.
"PIT Int'l Airport" sounds much better. Alternatively just add an airplane symbol to the sign as that is self explanatory but don't do as someone did with this sign :-o
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg32.imageshack.us%2Fimg32%2F7155%2Fbris013.jpg&hash=12a2c59e70baaef317402770b3a17039125788d3)
it took me a good 6 years of regularly visiting relatives in the area to figure out that "PGH" meant "Pittsburgh". Imagine how the occasional traveler, looking to find the airport after his first visit to the US, would do.
yes, the airplane icon does wonders. Today I found the optimal to the Denver airport by following the icon.
Quote from: treichard on March 30, 2010, 12:33:13 PM
Isn't "International" usually "Int'l" instead of that extended consonant gbbrsh?
it probably is. PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer. Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport.
The affectation of calling airports INTERNATIONAL seems to be an American elitism (sweet liberal Cthulhu, we talk to other countries; begin the parade and launch the fireworks posthaste! Uncle Sam! Uncle Sam! If he can't do it, no one can! 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - IRAQI PEOPLE LIBERATE!)
Get the Hell over yourself. Drop the pretension in favor of clarity. Pittsburgh Airport, with a little airplane icon, is the best way to describe the destination.
PennDOT could have just put "Airport" on the sign, since that is what was used on the guide for 279 South at the former end of 376. Considering that is the only airport in that direction, I don't think people would confuse it with any others.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 30, 2010, 03:37:37 PMit probably is. PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer. Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport.
The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier. This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport. The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.
QuoteThe affectation of calling airports INTERNATIONAL seems to be an American elitism (sweet liberal Cthulhu, we talk to other countries; begin the parade and launch the fireworks posthaste! Uncle Sam! Uncle Sam! If he can't do it, no one can! 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - IRAQI PEOPLE LIBERATE!)
It is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International." Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.
QuotePittsburgh Airport, with a little airplane icon, is the best way to describe the destination.
I am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport. So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2010, 04:47:18 AMIt is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International." Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.
Papa Westray (http://papa%20westray%20airport) and similar? To be fair, lots of them do put International on - Birmingham, Belfast (the one near Antrim), Bristol, Blackpool, Exeter, Norwich, Glasgow and Glasgow Prestwick all have the word in their full name.
Birmingham, AFAICS, doesn't have another airport (though it may have done once upon a time, and the name stuck, especially as there's a rail station called Birmingham International right next door), Belfast has City (which also has International flights, but is 1 mile, rather than 20 from the city centre as the crow flies), Blackpool, Bristol, Exeter and Norwich are vanity projects. Glasgow International was probably originally called that to separate it from Prestwick (near Ayr) when that added the 'Glasgow' tag - saying "we're the main airport". Prestwick then went "we have international flights too" and added it.
Railway stations are where adding International becomes useful, though birmingham International (named after the airport) and Stratford International won't see International (ignoring trains to Scotland and Wales from Birmingham International) trains, except for a couple of weeks in 2012 (perhaps), where Stratford International is right next to a major sporting event. Maybe in 20 years time, there might be some international rail service stopping at Stratford International (and at Birmingham Interchange, which would be near Birmingham International, linked via monorail). However given Stratford International is half a mile from the 'domestic' station, and to the north, calling it Stratford South Eastern (given that the trains run to the SE from there) might confuse people - though Wigan North Western (named after company that built it) is SW of Wigan Wallgate and no one seems to care. The other 3 'International' stations (St Pancras International, Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International) all have International services, as did Waterloo International, before it closed when the high speed line via Ebbsfleet to St Pancras International opened.
QuoteI am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport. So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.
Note that the plane should never be descending, like on that sign in central Bristol, purely as it looks like it's crashing.
Quote from: Mr_Northside on March 30, 2010, 12:02:17 PM
Looks like they're back at work replacing signs.
Noticed this from a PennDOT camera along I-79 (yes, I am bored enough to peep that shit, and then post about it)....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmysite.verizon.net%2F%7Evze3kr2y%2Fpics%2Ferrorsign.jpg&hash=2bb25f7782f00cabcc47ebc48f8932b95846f497)
Of course, this new sign has a slight error, with that "West" next to the 376. (The tab & destinations show the sign is obviously for both directions of the Parkway)
I'd like to think the reason PennDOT is/was pointing the camera close up to the sign was because they noticed the same thing. Who knows.
That has to be the worst abbreviations I've ever seen. If I'm not mistaken, the sign used to just say "Airport".
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2010, 04:47:18 AM
The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier. This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport. The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.
The airports in the Akron, OH/Canton, OH area are extremely confusing.
** The Airport in Akron proper **
-- Was the Original Commercial Airport serving the Akron/Canton Area prior to the 60's.
-- Noted on some BGS in Akron as "Akron-Fulton Airport", "Municipal Airport" or "Akron Municipal Airport"
-- Noted on Google Maps as "Akron-Fulton International Airport"
-- But it is only a private/freight/corporate airport...
** The Airport between Akron & Canton **
-- Became the official passenger airport in the late 50's/early 60's.
-- Known in the Northeast Ohio area as "Akron-Canton Airport"
-- Some BGS will refer it as "Akron-Canton Airport" or "Akron-Canton Regional Airport"
-- Most airlines which fly into Akron-Canton airport refer to it as "Canton-Akron Airport" because of its airport code of CAK.
-- The Akron-Canton Airport is closer to Canton than it is to Akron.
So if you are not a local, depending on which way you are coming from, and/or if you are relying on Google maps to find the "big" airport in Akron, you may wind up at the wrong airport, even though you may think the "Akron-Fulton International Airport" is THE airport to catch a regularly scheduled flight.
^^^
Fortunately, at least when I lived there from 1985 to 1995, this was mitigated by the fact that most people flew in/out of Cleveland Hopkins Airport because of a severe price premium for flying out of Akron-Canton. I only once ever flew into Akron-Canto Airport and all other times flew in/out of Cleveland.
That may still be true today as Southwest flies to Cleveland but not Akron-Canton.
Maybe a spin-off thread about airport guide signs would be useful.
Taking some people to the airport once, they saw this sign:
https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland150/i-195_eb_exit_003_03.jpg
(from https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/i-195_md.html)
One didn't believe me when I said that that red-white icon was an airplane taking off. It could also be a view of the Empire State Building from below.
Quote from: treichard on April 01, 2010, 01:22:38 AM
Maybe a spin-off thread about airport guide signs would be useful.
I agree. I'll split this thread up.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2010, 04:47:18 AM
The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier. This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport. The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.
Does Pittsburgh specifically have this difficulty? If not, then there is no reason to overcomplicate the signage. I love how LAX's official name on green signs is now ... LAX Airport. Everyone knows what it is, and there are no more clunky "LA International Airport" signs. Well, there is one; it dates to 1953 and may it survive forever, but no new examples are being installed.
QuoteIt is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International." Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.
I am not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, there are some airports in the US that have the necessary border jackass facilities, but that is not a fact to be celebrated with adding a thirteen-letter word to the title - especially when it is the only airport in town.
The major airport of a city should be called, say, Pittsburgh Airport, and the smaller ones can be Pittsburgh Executive Airport or whatnot, and there is no need to use the word "international" (and certainly not with the bumbling abbreviation seen on the green sign) which is not an effective way to differentiate the primary airport. As I said - just because you have two flights a day to Tijuana...
a minority of our airports have flights to Denver, or flights using the Airbus A380, or rental car facilities, or whatever other features, yet we do not feel the need to advertise said features in the
very name of the airport if they happen to exist. "Welcome to San Francisco's four-747-capable-landing-strips, eighty-two bars, fourteen duty free shops, and a shoe shine guy airport!"
QuoteI am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport. So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.
luckily a lot of US locations obey that, but indeed it does not appear to be mandated because plenty of places don't. I especially love the default rightward-pointing plane combined with a left arrow. That makes me do a double-take every time.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2010, 04:47:18 AM
["International Aiprort"] is a distinction we [the US] have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International." Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.
I would opine that the name of the airport itself would be a prompt in many cases that could be cause to leave the "International" off of the airport name when used on guide signage. If one is flying out of a major urban area with more than one airport, they're likely looking for the name of the airport and not whether it's the international airport or not. It seems as though multiple airports in the same area wouldn't have the same basic name--Podunk City shouldn't have both a Podunk International Airport and a Podunk Regional Airport--although this sensible assumption probably has an exception somewhere...
The MUTCD includes "intl" as the official abbreviation that shall be used for "international", so the "intrntl" abomination in that picture should have been avoided...
Quote
I am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport. So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.
An interpretation issued by FHWA in 2005 states the post-mounted airport sign (I1-5) may be rotated by 90 degrees when access to the facility is made via a right or left turn. This is allowed under an option in MUTCD section 2A.06(10), which allows the orientation of a symbol to be changed to reflect direction of travel, if appropriate.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 01, 2010, 03:20:45 AMI love how LAX's official name on green signs is now ... LAX Airport. Everyone knows what it is, and there are no more clunky "LA International Airport" signs. Well, there is one; it dates to 1953 and may it survive forever, but no new examples are being installed.
But LAX is an iconic airport serving a major world city with an urbanized area population of over 10 million. The terminal building that looks like an alien spaceship about to take off is well-recognized from its appearance in movies (including
Speed). For smaller cities with more obscure airports I'd contend it would be more helpful to navigation to spell out the airport name (with abbreviations as appropriate--yes, "Internatl" versus "Intl" is a real eyesore).
QuoteI am not sure what you are getting at here. Yes, there are some airports in the US that have the necessary border jackass facilities, but that is not a fact to be celebrated with adding a thirteen-letter word to the title - especially when it is the only airport in town.
The presence of jackbooted minions from the appropriate DHS agencies--no. The possibility of flying internationally from this small community airport--yes. Airports like LAX, O'Hare, and even Sky Harbor are genuine world airports with over 30 million PATMs annually. Smaller airports feel they have to advertise themselves by claiming a wide traffic basin, so they tend to use the word "International" prominently in their publicity, and that in turn can raise issues of relatability on guide signs.
QuoteThe major airport of a city should be called, say, Pittsburgh Airport, and the smaller ones can be Pittsburgh Executive Airport or whatnot, and there is no need to use the word "international" (and certainly not with the bumbling abbreviation seen on the green sign) which is not an effective way to differentiate the primary airport. As I said - just because you have two flights a day to Tijuana...
I wouldn't go for such a prescriptive solution. I'd look instead at how the airports are referred to in ordinary speech. In Wichita the commercial airport is called (and signed as) "Mid-Continent Airport" while the executive airport is "Col James Jabara Airport" (and the smaller airports owned by the aircraft manufacturers are generally not signed at all). "LAX" works for Los Angeles because of its iconic status, while just "Airport" may very well work for PIT if it is really the only general-purpose airport in the region.
QuoteQuoteI am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport. So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.
luckily a lot of US locations obey that, but indeed it does not appear to be mandated because plenty of places don't. I especially love the default rightward-pointing plane combined with a left arrow. That makes me do a double-take every time.
You have to take off into the wind!!!
BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.
To my way of thinking the only reason anything but "airport" needs be on a sign is if there is a posibility of confusion. In other words, if you get in a cab and say "airport" is that sufficient for the cabbie to take you where you wish to go?
My list thus would be the following metro areas: New York, Baltimore-Washington, Chicago, LA, South Florida, Tampa Bay, Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, and San Francisco Bay.
They just replaced the Pensacola Airport guide signs that one sees entering or exiting the airport. Some were unchanged from when I first saw them in 1993 until a few months ago. A few others were updated by 2001 (http://www.southeastroads.com/florida999/pensacola_reg_apt_sign_bridge_01.jpg). No more microscopic Interstate shields (http://www.southeastroads.com/florida999/pensacola_reg_apt_sign_bridge_02.jpg)...
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 30, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
it probably is. PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer. Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport.
It has nothing to do with scheduled passenger flight. An "international airport" in this country is one that has immigration/customs available. Just because they don't have passenger flights internationally doesn't mean they don't get general aviation or cargo flights in from other countries.
The reason they usually mark out the whole airport name is two-fold. Part of it is to eliminate confusion of course. Take Orlando for instance. There's Orlando International, Orlando-Sanford International, and Orlando Executive Airport, all not too far from the 417. The other reason they do it is just because that's the proper name of the airport. If the airport is officially called "Pittsburgh International Airport", I see no reason why they shouldn't put that on the sign. I do wish more places would use the airport symbol though on their signs in addition to the text.
Better "International" than what OKC has, which is "Will Rogers World Airport". If Airport weren't tacked on there, it sounds like a cheesy theme park patterned after a pithy Depression-era comedian. In a fit of irony, the minor executive airport in OKC is named after aviator Wiley Post–both Post and Rogers died in the same airplane crash!
The signage in Kansas City is rather clear. "K C I Airport" and "Johnson Co Exec Airport".
Quote from: SP Cook on April 01, 2010, 07:55:13 AM
BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.
In 2004 there was a direct flight to London. In 2006 I had to get a flight to Chicago and then a flight to the UK. Maybe the International tag should be revoked if there are no flights outside of North America?
Quote from: Truvelo on April 01, 2010, 10:59:47 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 01, 2010, 07:55:13 AM
BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.
In 2004 there was a direct flight to London. In 2006 I had to get a flight to Chicago and then a flight to the UK. Maybe the International tag should be revoked if there are no flights outside of North America?
The international tag is used if one can clear customs there. Even Midway has an international tag due to this.
Quote from: realjd on April 01, 2010, 09:24:21 AM
The reason they usually mark out the whole airport name is two-fold. Part of it is to eliminate confusion of course. Take Orlando for instance. There's Orlando International, Orlando-Sanford International, and Orlando Executive Airport, all not too far from the 417. The other reason they do it is just because that's the proper name of the airport. If the airport is officially called "Pittsburgh International Airport", I see no reason why they shouldn't put that on the sign. I do wish more places would use the airport symbol though on their signs in addition to the text.
well then that should not be part of the name of the airport! Having three airports called Orlando Airport, Orlando-Sanford Airport, and Orlando Executive Airport should be sufficient.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 01, 2010, 05:20:28 AM
I'd look instead at how the airports are referred to in ordinary speech.
I do not know a single airport that is referred to as "international" in ordinary speech. The closest I can think of is Denver, which is colloquially "DIA". Initials pronounced individually; no explicit indication of what it stands for, though it is easy to guess.
of course, "DIA" would be confusing to an out-of-towner, but the solution is not to add a bulky 13-letter word.
I do not remember offhand what the signs say on I-25 northbound, which direct you to the airport via I-225 with at least a small airplane icon on every green sign, and I do not remember the signs saying "international" until you get to the Pena Boulevard turnoff on I-70. I think it was just "to airport"? With a symbol? Will have to check either today or next week when I am back in the area.
Locals around Casper jokingly refer to Casper Airport as "Casper International" since they employ one US Customs person (and the airport is proudly signed as Casper International), but that's the closest I can think of.
I-25 South at E-470 is Denver Intl
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F25%2F7to470%2F4.JPG&hash=ee09035ee72179af03faf0728c16ba823b54d6a9)
As is at I-270
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F25%2F128to270%2F5.JPG&hash=40f32301b276bb11fe407fdc58784113c48ee393)
So is C-470 at 25/E-470
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F470%2F177to25%2F8.JPG&hash=451322677a4e03c9081cf47977cb16baded416d3)
So is I-70 West at Pena (in the background)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F70%2F70busto225%2F2.JPG&hash=3499680a69eba59c2eb6b90779cbdd475b67aaae)
25 North at I-70 is just the symbol
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F85%2F70denverto25%2F5.JPG&hash=4d723933b9d8f1a81e4b7e70d6972430aac719e8)
as is US-85 North at E-470
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2Fco%2F85%2F22toe470%2F2.JPG&hash=c811098dd01c1d12fd3cd5b406bd809e3a0033be)
There is one DIA sign I know of, and that's a trailblazer at the intersection of Colfax and Tower. I don't have a picture of it. Here's a street view (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=denver+co&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.910968,114.169922&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Denver,+Colorado&ll=39.740112,-104.775184&spn=0.006121,0.013937&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.74011,-104.775536&panoid=e15vYYutSLZW_bmoQizRSQ&cbp=12,114.8,,0,1.54)- if it were clearer the text under the plane would say "DIA"
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 01, 2010, 11:46:56 AM
I do not know a single airport that is referred to as "international" in ordinary speech. The closest I can think of is Denver, which is colloquially "DIA". Initials pronounced individually; no explicit indication of what it stands for, though it is easy to guess.
The Kansas City airport, as mentioned above, is colloquially "KCI", for Kansas City International. Interestingly enough, its airport code is MCI, for Mid-Continent International–apparently they were going to go with that name but changed it for whatever reason after the code was assigned! The "true" MCI is now the Wichita airport.
Quote from: agentsteel53The major airport of a city should be called, say, Pittsburgh Airport, and the smaller ones can be Pittsburgh Executive Airport or whatnot, and there is no need to use the word "international" (and certainly not with the bumbling abbreviation seen on the green sign) which is not an effective way to differentiate the primary airport. As I said - just because you have two flights a day to Tijuana...
I disagree with that one. IMO "Airport" alone comes off as generic and using the term "[City Name] Airport" can be just as confusing if the city has more than one airport. Anyone can easily mistake the city name for being a possessive noun or adjective vs being the official name of the airport.
I can also think of a lot pf places where Intl, Int'l, or International are used on guide signs and places where "international" is used in common speech. The only thing is "international" seems to be used in speech in smaller cities/towns. The well-known airports usually go by some sort of abbreviation or nickname.
Denver (DIA) and Kansas City (KCI) are both examples of airports where the acronym in common use does not match the ICAO airport code (DEN and MCI respectively).
Quote from: corco on April 01, 2010, 12:42:58 PM
Locals around Casper jokingly refer to Casper Airport as "Casper International" since they employ one US Customs person (and the airport is proudly signed as Casper International), but that's the closest I can think of.
So what happens when he calls in sick?
Quote
So what happens when he calls in sick?
Given how Wyoming operates they either
A) just say you can't fly in and if you try to they reroute you to Billings or Denver
or
B) let you in without inspection (I'd doubt this- apparently every time anybody flies out of the Laramie airport (I always drive to Denver, but you can fly to Denver) they put the gel on your hands to check for explosives)
Quote from: corco on April 01, 2010, 02:08:28 PM
Given how Wyoming operates they either
A) just say you can't fly in and if you try to they reroute you to Billings or Denver
or
B) let you in without inspection (I'd doubt this- apparently every time anybody flies out of the Laramie airport (I always drive to Denver, but you can fly to Denver) they put the gel on your hands to check for explosives)
When flying into the US from other countries, you have to file a flight plan with your ETA and pre-arrange customs services. If he's gone for whatever reason, they'll either have someone from another airport there to cover for him or they'll tell you to go clear customs at another airport when you try to file the flight plan.
I've always thought it was kind of pretentious for smaller airports to have "international" in their title.
Witness Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport (on the sign as W-B/Scr Intl Airport!):
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=avoca,+pa&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.424342,49.921875&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Avoca,+Luzerne,+Pennsylvania&ll=41.330871,-75.738115&spn=0.047114,0.048752&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=41.330971,-75.738076&panoid=yt3psbee01uJzZpDFB-JVA&cbp=12,5.86,,0,3.73
Or what used to be known as Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton Airport (ABE) is now:
Lehigh Valley Interantional (on the sign as L. V. I. Airport)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=easton,+pa&sll=41.331,-75.738115&sspn=0.047371,0.048752&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Easton&ll=40.642761,-75.432966&spn=0.011967,0.012188&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.642718,-75.43307&panoid=FZnlGYeuI-eNRfj1SLiWdw&cbp=12,75.36,,0,11.02
Quote from: LeftyJR on March 31, 2010, 02:39:21 PMIf I'm not mistaken, the sign used to just say "Airport".
It used to read "Pgh Intl Airport (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Crafton,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Crafton&ll=40.43643,-80.111446&spn=0.031161,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.436598,-80.111462&panoid=heOPdQa1VdHHnkV3Wmisxg&cbp=12,167.98,,0,-20.83)."
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 01, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
[The Kansas City airport, as mentioned above, is colloquially "KCI", for Kansas City International. Interestingly enough, its airport code is MCI, for Mid-Continent International–apparently they were going to go with that name but changed it for whatever reason after the code was assigned!
Similar to Piedmont North Carolina. "Tirad" is local code for the tri-cities of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and High Point, and the airport is located between the cores of all three (although annexed to Greensboro). The name of the airport is "Piedmont Triad International Airport" (although there are no "international" flights at all, not even to Canada) and the locals call it "PTI". The airlines, however, call it "Greensboro" and the code is GSO. No airport, AFAIK, uses PTI.
Quote from: SP Cook on April 01, 2010, 08:04:40 PM
No airport, AFAIK, uses PTI.
However, another anagram of Pittsburgh's code is in use. For reasons that I've never found out about, Williamsport's Airport in Montoursville, PA is IPT.
Before, US Airways scaled back, flying from Nashville to Williamsport, I'd go through Pittsburgh. I often worried that some dyslexic baggage clerk would lose my luggage as I was flying between PIT and IPT!
When K.I. Sawyer Air Force Base south of Marquette, MI closed in 1995, official from Marquette County were clamoring to move the county airport to the former base. The Air Force had purchased the county's airport on that location to build the base, both of which were named Kenneth I. Sawyer, Marquette County Road Commissioner. (The airport was run by the county road commission at the time.) The main argument was that Marquette County would gain jet service with the move, which is ironic considering that jets flew into the old airport off US 41/M-28.
When the county opened the terminal and moved passenger operations out to Sawyer, it was named "Sawyer International Airport", and the former "Marquette County Airport" was closed. The "International" was added because Marquette received a part-time customs agent that split duties between the airport and the iron ore docks in Marquette. (If an ore freighter's last port of call is in Canada before landing in Marquette, crew members must pass through customs to leave the ship, necessitating the customs agent.) There is no regularly scheduled passenger service to Canada, although there have been special flights scheduled.
The other oddity in the naming deals with the airport codes. The old airport in Negaunee Township had the IATA code MQT and the ICAO code KMQT. The air force base was SAW/KSAW, both as a base and for general aviation between closure and the transfer of passenger operations. After the transfer, it is MQT/KSAW, retaining the old ICAO code.
Quote from: PAHighways on April 01, 2010, 07:56:41 PM
Quote from: LeftyJR on March 31, 2010, 02:39:21 PMIf I'm not mistaken, the sign used to just say "Airport".
It used to read "Pgh Intl Airport (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Crafton,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Crafton&ll=40.43643,-80.111446&spn=0.031161,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.436598,-80.111462&panoid=heOPdQa1VdHHnkV3Wmisxg&cbp=12,167.98,,0,-20.83)."
Northbound on I-79, you'll see just "Airport"...
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Crafton,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Crafton&layer=c&cbll=40.423796,-80.106034&panoid=znXc2R5eBBxiXZE9eEpMag&cbp=12,358.35,,0,5.35&ll=40.423625,-80.106039&spn=0.046784,0.109863&z=14 (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Crafton,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Crafton&layer=c&cbll=40.423796,-80.106034&panoid=znXc2R5eBBxiXZE9eEpMag&cbp=12,358.35,,0,5.35&ll=40.423625,-80.106039&spn=0.046784,0.109863&z=14)
I imagine it all just depends on the space they plan on having on the sign they're gonna use.
Quote from: PAHighways on April 01, 2010, 07:56:41 PM
Quote from: LeftyJR on March 31, 2010, 02:39:21 PMIf I'm not mistaken, the sign used to just say "Airport".
It used to read "Pgh Intl Airport (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Crafton,+PA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.214763,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Crafton&ll=40.43643,-80.111446&spn=0.031161,0.077162&z=14&layer=c&cbll=40.436598,-80.111462&panoid=heOPdQa1VdHHnkV3Wmisxg&cbp=12,167.98,,0,-20.83)."
/
Jeff, why don't they use PIT instead of PGH as it is the official abbreviation for the airport
Quote from: mightyace on April 01, 2010, 09:00:34 PMFor reasons that I've never found out about, Williamsport's Airport in Montoursville, PA is IPT.
Could it be because the logical abbreviation is in use elsewhere? This is what happened with Burgos airport in Spain (http://www.pasaporteblog.com/rgs-iata-aeropuerto-burgos/) (IATA code is RGS since BUR is already taken by Burbank airport, BUG by Benguela in Angola, BUS by another airport in Russia, etc.).
I think this might be the only instance where the airplane symbol(here for Richmond's airport even though it is still about 20 miles southeast of here) is actually right beside the shield, which to note wasn't there before the flyover from I-64 EB to I-295 west of Richmond was built. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi622.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt304%2F24DIDNOTWIN%2FI-64EASTNEARI-295EXIT1772.jpg&hash=1ba6d65cc2fd53d86bce378ac4b7061e21be2a6d)
Quote from: SP Cook on April 01, 2010, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 01, 2010, 12:51:45 PM
[The Kansas City airport, as mentioned above, is colloquially "KCI", for Kansas City International. Interestingly enough, its airport code is MCI, for Mid-Continent International—apparently they were going to go with that name but changed it for whatever reason after the code was assigned!
Similar to Piedmont North Carolina. "Tirad" is local code for the tri-cities of Winston-Salem, Greensboro, and High Point, and the airport is located between the cores of all three (although annexed to Greensboro). The name of the airport is "Piedmont Triad International Airport" (although there are no "international" flights at all, not even to Canada) and the locals call it "PTI". The airlines, however, call it "Greensboro" and the code is GSO. No airport, AFAIK, uses PTI.
The International comes from the freight flights that are handled out of GSO.
Fixed quote - rmf67
Out here in Bellingham, our airport (one runway, two gates, but expanding) is occasionally referred to by its code (BLI) in local speech. Ironically, despite our proximity, there's no regular passenger service to Canada. Just Seattle and a handful of western tourist destinations (Las Vegas, Palm Springs, etc.).
On the subject of signage, WSDOT recently (within the past year or two) replaced most of the signage for the exit on I-5. It's too recent for Google, but here's a pic courtesy of WSDOT's SRweb (http://images.wsdot.wa.gov/StateRoute/PictureLog/2009/NW/005/M/M/D/25/M/25813M.JPG). Somehow, I really don't think that's how the airport symbol was meant to be used.
^ You're right...the airport symbol is not meant to be a substitute for the word "airport". Had the airport symbol come at the front of that line of text, it would have been much better.
Incidentally, there appears to be two airport symbols in use around the country. The first is an overhead shot of an airplane, which is the MUTCD symbol used on independent mount signs and some BGSs. The other, which is depicted in Kacie Jane's link, shows a side view of an airplane that I've seen on some BGSs. I'm curious as to where the second symbol came from.
Quote from: roadfro on April 06, 2010, 04:46:11 PM
^ You're right...the airport symbol is not meant to be a substitute for the word "airport". Had the airport symbol come at the front of that line of text, it would have been much better.
Incidentally, there appears to be two airport symbols in use around the country. The first is an overhead shot of an airplane, which is the MUTCD symbol used on independent mount signs and some BGSs. The other, which is depicted in Kacie Jane's link, shows a side view of an airplane that I've seen on some BGSs. I'm curious as to where the second symbol came from.
Not sure where the second symbol comes from but I do know both are in use in California though from what I have seen most use the side-view airplane symbol on guide signs. Both symbols are included in the Roadgeek font set (Roadgeek 2005 Icons) as shown by the following examples...
"Overhead Airplane" - Northbound I-880 at CA-82/The Alameda
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Fsvroads%2Fguides%2Fi880_north%2F880n_2.jpg&hash=93abda30cf5a2f2697a6522b30997d673305ec86)
"Side-view Airplane" - Northbound I-880 at Coleman Avenue
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.markyville.com%2Fsvroads%2Fguides%2Fi880_north%2F880n_3.jpg&hash=b998c3067faea0df6ffa2a0ecd991fa25af153ca)
that's kinda sad that the name of the city got third billing to the All-Important Advertising Word, and the name of some random dead* bureaucrat.
*bureaucrat may still be biologically alive at this time
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 07, 2010, 03:02:30 PM
that's kinda sad that the name of the city got third billing to the All-Important Advertising Word, and the name of some random dead* bureaucrat.
*bureaucrat may still be biologically alive at this time
"All-Important Advertising Word"??? Huh? :confused:
Regarding Norm Mineta, he helped shape the transportation system (freeways and public transit) here in the South Bay. In fact, all of CA-85 is now the "Norm Mineta Highway" although it's still referred to as the Stevens Creek Fwy or the West Valley Fwy. He may be a "bureaucrat" but in this area, he is still highly thought of.
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 07, 2010, 04:34:00 PM
"All-Important Advertising Word"??? Huh? :confused:
"international". Didn't we just figure out that it's small, unimportant airports who really milk that word? San Jose is very important; it should be able to get by with a simple moniker.
QuoteRegarding Norm Mineta, he helped shape the transportation system (freeways and public transit) here in the South Bay. In fact, all of CA-85 is now the "Norm Mineta Highway" although it's still referred to as the Stevens Creek Fwy or the West Valley Fwy. He may be a "bureaucrat" but in this area, he is still highly thought of.
so much so that he got the airport named after him while still alive. Even Ronald Reagan had to die for the 118 freeway and the National Airport in Washington and whatever else is named after him these days.
I'm just not a fan of naming things after elected or appointed officials. If I were heading to the south bay, I'd much rather fly into the Steve Wozniak Airport.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on April 05, 2010, 10:22:23 AM
I think this might be the only instance where the airplane symbol(here for Richmond's airport even though it is still about 20 miles southeast of here) is actually right beside the shield, which to note wasn't there before the flyover from I-64 EB to I-295 west of Richmond was built. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi622.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt304%2F24DIDNOTWIN%2FI-64EASTNEARI-295EXIT1772.jpg&hash=1ba6d65cc2fd53d86bce378ac4b7061e21be2a6d)
It should be noted that all signage on Airport Drive at Richmond International was recently replaced (about 2008) with brand new green signs supplied by Henrico County and/or VDOT. And it's NOT in Clearview! (Henrico County does not use Clearview, and the county maintains all roads within the airport since they never left the county's secondary route system despite the airport expanding over them.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4008%2F4283555187_ab5ea8444a.jpg&hash=83a8a1825a75428a25f0536dae97612f25ff5724) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coredesatchikai/4283555187/)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4007%2F4263635086_10f8b5cc6c.jpg&hash=cffae403334c39d90c79977c7ec4a13fc42759dd) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/coredesatchikai/4263635086/)
(This sign is green, not black.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flh6.ggpht.com%2F_vGM7FtU3Pdk%2FS7z1VfFAT5I%2FAAAAAAAADQw%2F38q12QyeRMc%2Fs720%2FIMGP7511.jpg&hash=7e440ec7a84b8afabfaf5fd342574f95042893e7)
I'm guessing the green signs were installed in advance of the airport connector road project. The original signs were blue (similar to the overhead signs at the parking garages).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 07, 2010, 04:49:04 PMI'm just not a fan of naming things after elected or appointed officials. If I were heading to the south bay, I'd much rather fly into the Steve Wozniak Airport.
Hmmm... the Steve Wozniak
Intl Airport? I like that! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Main mode of transportation within the airport would be by Segway and Prius' park for free in the airport parking garages. :spin:
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 07, 2010, 06:04:02 PMHmmm... the Steve Wozniak Intl Airport? I like that! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Main mode of transportation within the airport would be by Segway and Prius' park for free in the airport parking garages. :spin:
heh I was thinking more the Apple and Apple II... free parking for any car built by hand, or for which the complete schematics are present in the glove compartment or easily found online.
seriously, Steve W did as much for Silicon Valley as any other entrepreneur I can think of, which is, in the grand scheme of things, a whole lot more than laying out By-Pass 101, with its terrible weaving merges in Santa Clara!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 07, 2010, 04:49:04 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on April 07, 2010, 04:34:00 PM
"All-Important Advertising Word"??? Huh? :confused:
"international". Didn't we just figure out that it's small, unimportant airports who really milk that word? San Jose is very important; it should be able to get by with a simple moniker.
QuoteRegarding Norm Mineta, he helped shape the transportation system (freeways and public transit) here in the South Bay. In fact, all of CA-85 is now the "Norm Mineta Highway" although it's still referred to as the Stevens Creek Fwy or the West Valley Fwy. He may be a "bureaucrat" but in this area, he is still highly thought of.
so much so that he got the airport named after him while still alive. Even Ronald Reagan had to die for the 118 freeway and the National Airport in Washington and whatever else is named after him these days.
Route 118 received the Reagan name in 1994-1995 when he was still living (the one time I was on that highway, in mid-1994, it was still the "Simi Valley-San Fernando Valley Freeway").
Norm Mineta was not only alive, he was the US Secretary of Transportation when they named the airport after him.
That always seemed a little sketchy to me - lets at least wait until politicians retire before we start building the monuments.
Quote from: roadfro on April 06, 2010, 04:46:11 PM^ You're right...the airport symbol is not meant to be a substitute for the word "airport". Had the airport symbol come at the front of that line of text, it would have been much better.
In the UK it is - the major control destinations on the M25 are, going clockwise: Dartford Crossing, Gatwick Airport, Heathrow Airport, Watford and Stansted Airport. However, you will never see the word Airport (in standard speech, people don't tend to use it for those airports anyway, as the airport names, either relate to a place that is under the airport, never was a settlement or is the first word of a nearby village with a two-word name that's less famous than the airport). Here's (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.308806,0.361991&spn=0,0.054932&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.308793,0.369967&panoid=cxk7ALVtd2LXZzx6Y3QBjQ&cbp=13,240.96,,2,-13.25) a sign with both Heathrow and Gatwick on it, and here's (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.716713,-0.369201&spn=0,0.054932&z=15&layer=c&cbll=51.716852,-0.369069&panoid=e6Wtd2RCKaFutCLN0NGYlw&cbp=13,197.91,,0,-0.27) a different one with the planes at a different angle, and Heathrow one way, Stansted the other. Finally, here's (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.746625,-0.405539&spn=0,0.006866&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.746774,-0.405776&panoid=jX8rGucxmj4DDQaDbV6Ydw&cbp=12,334.18,,0,1.41) one where the airport is straight on, and also has the problem of having the same name as the large town it's next to. You have Luton & <airplane symbol>.
It could be that I've grown up with it, I'm used to it and I see the plane on the sign and put the word "Airport" in there.
I do dislike this (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=52.438063,-1.714321&panoid=n05sm_blL_vAcdezmgt3vw&ll=52.437883,-1.714382&spn=0,0.054932&z=15&cbp=12,12.63,,0,-4.14) sign, pointing to Birmingham International Airport (not a small one) and Birmingham International railway station (just the red British rail symbol - also not international, unless you count Wales - though I think a couple of trains a day go to Scotland from there) with no mention of Birmingham International. It's not inherently obvious that we're looking at Birmingham International Airport (Coventry also has one, not as big, but still an airport - also on the A45). Railway stations are worse - which one, Coventry has an intercity one, Birmingham has three major central stations, plus the International one, not to mention the various smaller stations nearby. People heading for Birmingham International will get there, but it's just poor signage. I don't mind signs like this (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.674382,-0.608591&spn=0,0.002411&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.674467,-0.608571&panoid=eIPuAduiGOQzSfoK7ormoA&cbp=12,29.18,,3,2.23) one, given that you'd have to be pretty dim to not realise that you are in Amersham, having driven to that point.
Wasn't Heathrow signed as "London Airport" on the M4 etc. back in the 1960's? I don't think the airplane symbol appeared in the Worboys report, but I can't remember whether it appeared in TSRGD 1975 or 1981.
I go to Detroit and Toronto airports a lot. Detroit's layout is simple compared to the complexity in Toronto, but the signage in Toronto helps simplify everything.
Detroit from above. One route connects everything.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg96.imageshack.us%2Fimg96%2F6163%2Fclipboard01li.jpg&hash=713ee4797c05dd8a58c772f02de90f1263b59d1c)
On the road, each lane goes somewhere specific. That's effective placement.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F120%2Fclipboard01sd.jpg&hash=0ce9b96c7e36ecd7e466422a08f1790cfdc88023)
Toronto is another story. Look at this mess!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg85.imageshack.us%2Fimg85%2F3500%2F48780943.jpg&hash=caa391000fb1085217dc092203ccbaf4fe74e0cd)
Even the trunk route is a tangle of spaghetti.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F5835%2Fclipboard01mf.jpg&hash=5d1296f6a94701787ff24c3f53732c85ea509404)
But the signage helps keeps things simple.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg515.imageshack.us%2Fimg515%2F8683%2F10453719.jpg&hash=eaece06ae7ba894baa6e33feecbab57474e02465)
And when leaving, there are multiple signs to help you pick your highway, carriageway, and direction of travel.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg208.imageshack.us%2Fimg208%2F8395%2Fclipboard01lp.jpg&hash=d3e075cca418047dc4457ea43c5865cd722ffdc3)
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 11, 2010, 08:43:38 AMWasn't Heathrow signed as "London Airport" on the M4 etc. back in the 1960's? I don't think the airplane symbol appeared in the Worboys report, but I can't remember whether it appeared in TSRGD 1975 or 1981.
Heathrow bore the name 'London Airport' for a long time.
I don't know when exactly it came in, but I can see not until 1975 being very viable - Glasgow's M8 has 'Glasgow Airport' signs in the centre, where the signs are original. The M77/M8 split is 'Ayr, Prestwick Airport M77|Greenock, Glasgow Airport M8' and has been copied to the replacement signage on the M8 mainline (the c/d roads still have original signs on Google Streetview). Then again, that's Glasgow and the M8 - "rules, we'll have our own". I've looked on streetview at a few airports - there's lots of Airport <plane symbol> signs when you are onto the road network around the airport, eg signing the main entrance.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2010, 04:47:18 AM
I am a favor of the British approach: "Heathrow [airplane symbol]." There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.
In Britain.... or, in (of all places) New York:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg706.imageshack.us%2Fimg706%2F2536%2Fdscn6664web.jpg&hash=9f96fd1d00acbd1c3c325b410795bb52d99a2419)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg265.imageshack.us%2Fimg265%2F3720%2Fdscn6665web.jpg&hash=34d2acc43f7246f6a5d72a7248f54e4383e147b9)
Is this technically an MUTCD violation?
Quote from: Duke87 on April 23, 2010, 04:14:52 PM
Is [rotating the airplane symbol as pictured in the post above] technically an MUTCD violation?
In short, no.
The MUTCD allows agencies to change the orientation of standard symbols. An official interpretation issued by FHWA in 2005 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_564.htm) states that the airport general information sign (I-5) may be rotated 90° in conjunction with a left or right turn arrow in a trailblazer assembly in order to emphasize that a turn is required to reach the airport destination.
That interpretation was issued for the stand-alone airport sign (I-5). I would imagine that the FHWA would extend the interpretation to the orientation of the symbol on a BGS. In that case, the airport symbol on the advance sign should probably be oriented straight up or 45° to the right (like the exit direction sign), instead of 90° to the right as pictured.
My own preference, however, is that the airport symbol be oriented with the nose of the plane straight up for all applications. I think this is best for uniform driver recognition of the symbol. An arrow indicating the direction of the turn (or ramp, in this case) is required anyway...so I don't think orienting the symbol gives that much added emphasis. I'm sure that viewpoint could be debated, but that's how I feel about it.
I'm going to hazard a guess here, but the issue may be that from a distance, the airplane can sort of look like an arrow, so it eliminates confusion if the two are pointing the same direction.
I tend to get cognitive dissonance if I see the arrow pointing to the left or right, and the airplane straight up.
Newark Airport usually is signed with one of these:
(https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_jersey050/i-078_eb_exit_052_02.jpg)
I do believe that is the official "logo" for Newark Airport. Not a problem.
What's I question is that part of the sign being brown. The airport is a recreational destination or historical site? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Duke87 on April 25, 2010, 06:56:20 PM
What's I question is that part of the sign being brown. The airport is a recreational destination or historical site? :rolleyes:
I guess after 9/11/2001, you could consider it a historic site.
It was even brown before 9/11, so I'm not exactly sure why they do that. What makes this different is that neither LaGuardia nor JFK Airports are signed in this manner, so why would Newark do it this way?