What are some towns you try to avoid in your travels, whether it be for speed traps/price gouging/being too touristy or otherwise?
Ridgeland, South Carolina. If I must go through there on I-95, I set the cruise control at 68 mph just before I hit the town limits.
I try to avoid Los Banos, Casa de Fruita, and Hollister as much as possible when I go to Monterey. Those three communities serve the Central Valley crossing the Pacheco Pass corridor via CA 152 and CA 156. Usually I opt for the slower on paper County Route J1 or CA 198.
I don't know if there's a specific place I refuse to go through or will go out of my way to bypass, but places I try not to go or try not to stop include:
Rochester, MN - dingy, drab city
St. Cloud - overgrown small town that's turned into retail chain hell
Hudson/Menomonie/Eau Claire, WI - ex-friend's stomping grounds
I wouldn't have much of a use for any of the towns between Duluth and Grand Marais, buf I cant bypass those on MN 61.
Rosendale WI - notorious speed trap
ELKTON, MD.
I got my first & only speeding ticket from a speed trap there.
iPhone
Used to avoid Waukesha but that is nearly impossible now. Given so many people I know live there and it is the only suburb in metro Milwaukee with a riverwalk. The city I can and will avoid now is Greenwood Indiana just south of Indianapolis. If I am ever passing through on I-65 and need to exit it won't be there. Learned about the speed trap that town is.
The twin towns of Hildale UT and Colorado City AZ, collectively known as "Short Creek," were notorious for being home to the polygamist FLDS sect. Visitors were viewed with deep suspicion, often followed by marked or unmarked vehicles until they left. AZ 389 / UT 59 passes through the area with 50mph/40mph speed limits that were very strictly enforced.
In recent years, however, with the FLDS's loss of prominence and elected offices, the area has become somewhat more welcoming, although the massive houses, many under perpetual construction, are still quite the sight. There's even a Subway now. :)
A few weeks ago, I spent a day bicycling around the area and had no difficulties. That's something I wouldn't have even remotely considered a few years ago.
Obligatory mention: I'll drive through Breezewood PA because there usually is no reasonable alternative (time is usually a factor for me when I drive out that way), but I won't drop a penny there. Screw 'em all. I'd pay inflated prices at a service plaza first.
There used to be a rule of thumb for bad speed traps in the Chicago area. If Springs (Western Sprs, Willow Sprs) or Park (Oak Park, Villa Park, etc) was in the name, you got to go 1 under the speed limit.
Not a town per se, but there are some really crappy parts of North St Louis that my dad avoids like the plague. We once got some rocks thrown at our car by some kids in Jennings.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 28, 2020, 06:57:01 PM
Rochester, MN - dingy, drab city
Granted, it was night when I went through, but it didn't seem dingy and drab beyond what you'd expect because of the presence of the clinic.
I actually thought the US 52 freeway was impressive, maybe even one of my favorites: wide, smooth, well-lit, good signage, and reasonable speed limit.
Like stlmapboy said, not so much towns as areas to avoid. In the Los Angeles area, the section of Alameda Street between I-10 and I-105. At some stoplights, squeegee men are out and about (they skipped me last time I went through, thankfully). Further south, near California SR 91, they actually had squeegee women too.
Also, there is an interchange I avoid when congested: North I-405 to South I-110. There is not enough merge room onto I-110.
Back before it was rebuilt, I avoided the California East SR 91 to California East SR 60/South I-215 in Riverside for the same reason - not enough merge room. It was majorly rebuilt several years ago and handles the traffic volume much better now.
Avoid because of traffic or general annoyance:
Fairport, NY - take I-490 or Turk Hill Road wherever possible. NY 250 is a true dictionary-style slog.
Lockport, NY - take NY 104 instead of NY 31
Oswego, NY - take NY 3 instead of NY 104
South Williamsport/Lewisburg, PA - take I-180/PA 147 instead of US 15
Apple Valley, MN - take I-35 instead of MN 77
Wish I could avoid, but there's no good alternative:
Watkins Glen, NY; DuBois, PA; Shamokin Dam, PA.
Avoid because they're just not good areas:
Tonawandas, much of Niagara Falls, northeastern Rochester city.
Quote from: Kniwt on June 28, 2020, 08:53:50 PM
The twin towns of Hildale UT and Colorado City AZ, collectively known as "Short Creek," were notorious for being home to the polygamist FLDS sect. Visitors were viewed with deep suspicion, often followed by marked or unmarked vehicles until they left. AZ 389 / UT 59 passes through the area with 50mph/40mph speed limits that were very strictly enforced.
In recent years, however, with the FLDS's loss of prominence and elected offices, the area has become somewhat more welcoming, although the massive houses, many under perpetual construction, are still quite the sight. There's even a Subway now. :)
A few weeks ago, I spent a day bicycling around the area and had no difficulties. That's something I wouldn't have even remotely considered a few years ago.
I drove though there a year ago headed to Vegas from the Grand Canyon and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Nothing to indicate it was once home of a cult-like group of rapey fundamentalists. Maybe that's where the "Merry Wives Cafe" in the middle of Hilldale comes from :-o
Quote from: dvferyance on June 28, 2020, 08:40:20 PM
Used to avoid Waukesha but that is nearly impossible now. Given so many people I know live there and it is the only suburb in metro Milwaukee with a riverwalk. The city I can and will avoid now is Greenwood Indiana just south of Indianapolis. If I am ever passing through on I-65 and need to exit it won't be there. Learned about the speed trap that town is.
You must have passed through at the wrong time because locally Greenwood is not really known as a speed trap. While going the speed limit is generally done on the local roads along the interstate I do 70-80 on a regular basis and so does everyone else. Believe me, it isn't that much of a speed trap.
Now, up north in Carmel and Westfield along the new US 31 freeway, whole different story. It's one of the few highways you do want to watch your speed. Same with I-69 through Bloomington. For some reason if a highway is improved it brings the local police out a whole lot more. Carmel recently was mentioned as a city that like to pull over more people "who weren't from Carmel" more often.
As far as actual cities to avoid in Indiana, the number one spot goes to an obvious choice: Gary. It's run-down reputation is well earned. At least Detroit is a city that has some promise, Gary really isn't. And while many would say the whole of Lake County could be avoided, nearby cities such as Hammond, East Chicago and Whiting aren't all too bad, but Gary...yeah there's no reason to be there.
Quote from: Tonytone on June 28, 2020, 08:34:41 PM
ELKTON, MD.
I got my first & only speeding ticket from a speed trap there.
iPhone
Let me guess: the bottom of the hill on MD 277 where it drops from 50 to 25 in about 100 feet?
There is one A-hole cop in a particular North Texas town who knows my car by sight and always gives me a hard time. But I also know his shift schedule.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 29, 2020, 12:59:43 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on June 28, 2020, 08:34:41 PM
ELKTON, MD.
I got my first & only speeding ticket from a speed trap there.
iPhone
Let me guess: the bottom of the hill on MD 277 where it drops from 50 to 25 in about 100 feet?
I love that road. /S All the state troopers live in that new Pettinaro community.
But its the two lane road by the crossroads church.
They were doing a speed trap on the curve on the road. You couldn't see them until you saw a guy standing in the road waving traffic, with a radar gun in hand. It was appleton road.
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Emporia, VA along US-58.
Don't necessarily try to avoid it, besides occasionally taking US-17 / US-64 when heading to I-95, though will always set the cruise at 60 mph (speed limit) through there and always slow to 45 mph or below approaching I-95.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on June 28, 2020, 08:59:08 PM
Obligatory mention: I'll drive through Breezewood PA because there usually is no reasonable alternative (time is usually a factor for me when I drive out that way), but I won't drop a penny there. Screw 'em all. I'd pay inflated prices at a service plaza first.
Depending on where you're going to and from, the new US-219 south of Somerset could be a good alternative to going through Breezewood. Other forum users have spoken highly of it. I haven't used it yet, but I plan to do so in October on a drive that would traditionally have taken us through Breezewood.
Cincinnati, because traffic on I-75 is usually awful, especially around the Norwood Lateral toward the split.
I'll cross the river at Maysville and take backroads to Dayton to avoid that mess.
Quote from: webny99 on June 28, 2020, 10:04:11 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 28, 2020, 06:57:01 PM
Rochester, MN - dingy, drab city
Granted, it was night when I went through, but it didn't seem dingy and drab beyond what you'd expect because of the presence of the clinic.
I actually thought the US 52 freeway was impressive, maybe even one of my favorites: wide, smooth, well-lit, good signage, and reasonable speed limit.
There is a lot of Rochester away from the freeway, you know...
That said, this assertion was based on when I was a kid so that Mayo money has probably done something to make it better.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 29, 2020, 11:14:10 AM
There is a lot of Rochester away from the freeway, you know...
Of course. I wouldn't have commented if all I had done was pass through on US 52. We did a fuel stop IIRC and drove around a bit in the downtown/clinic area, probably spent about 15-20 minutes off the highway. Not a huge sample, but enough to form an impression.
Fort Worth.
Because of common traffic jams on I-35W, I now go to Mexico by way of a completely different route south of OKC, crossing the border at Del Rio instead of Laredo. I haven't driven through Fort Worth since 2014.
Ashland, VA.
I haven't set foot in that town since about 2012 because of the cops. If there's even just a minor infraction with your vehicle, like something most other jurisdictions wouldn't even bother with, you WILL get pulled over. Add the fact that both the Ashland Police Department and Hanover County Sheriff Department patrol there...
Sorry to throw a wrench in the topic, but do we feel any of these towns that are extremely ticket happy or speed trap happy are very liberal or very conservative areas?
In cities I tend to notice less caring about headlights out, fullstop at stop signs, how your car looks & really the small things that would get you pulled over in more suburban rural areas.
In suburban/rural areas it seems police will try to find any reason to pull you over if they are "fishing" , they will pull you over for any lights out, rolling thru stop signs, how your car looks, so if you drive a beat up 98 Buick regal be prepared to be followed for a while, compared to driving a 2020 Benz.
It's interesting that we dont have more outcry on the aggressiveness in between areas.
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I'm sure some of that just comes down to workload. The city cops would probably love to stop you for that headlight and poke into whatever you're doing, but have too much other stuff going on for it to be worth their time.
* Stafford, VA - Home to one of the worst-timed stoplights in the state at the intersection of US-1 and Courthouse Rd. The light, which lets roughly 10 cars on US-1 pass per cycle, almost totally rules out US-1 as an effective bypass for the frequently-congested I-95, as traffic on US-1 often backs up for miles on each side. [Illustrated by StreetView] (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4229296,-77.4080744,3a,75y,204.44h,77.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3BGwE_d2n39Zmz8ezy8CpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
* McBee, SC - One-stoplight town whose city budget must be primarily funded by pulling over motorists heading from Charlotte to Darlington. Got stuck in town for nearly an hour trying to get through that single light while trying to drive home after the eclipse.
* Portsmouth, VA - I rarely venture off the freeways due to a combination of run-down roads, high crime rates, and huge meals taxes (over 11% last time I checked).
* Floyd, VA - I am still bitter about being pulled over for 63 in a 55 -- while passing on a two-lane road.
Shitcargoland. I've run into massive traffic jams in the wee hours of the morning many times. fun fact, spell check corrected to Chicago
3 times I've had someone going the wrong way on an expressway, once I saw in my mirror the actual collision, I was in an 18 wheeler so there was nothing I could do.
I called 911 all 3 times & was on 911 during the collision.
Just too many crazy drivers in this area. Sure there are many ways to miss trouble on the road IF u hear about it in time. Taking the Tri-StateTollway is usually my choice but its still a crapshoot as far as running into trouble.
Atlanta is also a city I avoid if possible for many of the same reasons. Rather than put up with rush hours I'd rather stop & eat or take a nap until 10 a.m. or 8p.m. then ride thru town non-stop.
Dishonorable mention to Smashville TN, NYC & Houston.
My choices of towns to avoid were when I drove a 18 wheeler in these towns.
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:29:05 PM
Shitcargoland. I've run into massive traffic jams in the wee hours of the morning many times. fun fact, spell check corrected to Chicago
3 times I've had someone going the wrong way on an expressway, once I saw in my mirror the actual collision, I was in an 18 wheeler so there was nothing I could do.
I called 911 all 3 times & was on 911 during the collision.
Just too many crazy drivers in this area. Sure there are many ways to miss trouble on the road IF u hear about it in time. Taking the NW Tollway is usually my choice but its still a crapshoot as far as running into trouble.
Atlanta is also a city I avoid if possible for many of the same reasons. Rather than put up with rush hours I'd rather stop & eat or take a nap until 10 a.m. or 8p.m. then ride thru town non-stop.
Dishonorable mention to Smashville TN, NYC & Houston.
Funny enough NYC traffic wasn't that bad. For it being the biggest city traffic may slow down but it moves through the trouble zones very quickly.
iPhone
The tolls for the NYC bridges for 18 wheelers are unbelievable! I hear the G Washington bridge is $100+. Plus there are hundreds of low underpasses, no truck parking & that NYC attitude.
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
The tolls for the NYC bridges for 18 wheelers are unbelievable! I hear the G Washington bridge is $100+. Plus there are hundreds of low underpasses, no truck parking & that NYC attitude.
Wait wait wait hold up stop the f***in presses. $100+ toll? Please tell me the load for the trip offsets that balance.
To think I thought the car tolls were already a kick in the ass.
iPhone
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:29:05 PM
Shitcargoland. I've run into massive traffic jams in the wee hours of the morning many times. fun fact, spell check corrected to Chicago
3 times I've had someone going the wrong way on an expressway, once I saw in my mirror the actual collision, I was in an 18 wheeler so there was nothing I could do.
I called 911 all 3 times & was on 911 during the collision.
Just too many crazy drivers in this area. Sure there are many ways to miss trouble on the road IF u hear about it in time. Taking the Tri-StateTollway is usually my choice but its still a crapshoot as far as running into trouble.
Atlanta is also a city I avoid if possible for many of the same reasons. Rather than put up with rush hours I'd rather stop & eat or take a nap until 10 a.m. or 8p.m. then ride thru town non-stop.
Dishonorable mention to Smashville TN, NYC & Houston.
My choices of towns to avoid were when I drove a 18 wheeler in these towns.
So now that we've ruled out Chicago, NYC, Atlanta, Houston, and Nashville, where
do you enjoy driving?
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 28, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
There used to be a rule of thumb for bad speed traps in the Chicago area. If Springs (Western Sprs, Willow Sprs) or Park (Oak Park, Villa Park, etc) was in the name, you got to go 1 under the speed limit.
I would try to make a way to fit Carol Stream into that rule. When I lived in the west suburbs back in the 90's, I got pulled over there twice and my brother got pulled over once when he finally brought his family to the area.
I would love to say anywhere the Iowa State Patrol operates, but being I live in Iowa, that will prove a challenge.
I avoid Timpson and Tenaha in east Texas.
I've heard bad things about officers in those towns, and there's a better route thru that area anyways.
Can't say I hate any towns, though.
Quote from: Tonytone on June 29, 2020, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
The tolls for the NYC bridges for 18 wheelers are unbelievable! I hear the G Washington bridge is $100+. Plus there are hundreds of low underpasses, no truck parking & that NYC attitude.
Wait wait wait hold up stop the f***in presses. $100+ toll? Please tell me the load for the trip offsets that balance.
To think I thought the car tolls were already a kick in the ass.
iPhone
I drove a co truck so I was reinbursed, its just the gall of charging $100 to cross one short bridge. Then you likely will have to for another bridge before you get where your going.
Its almost impossible to avoid the tolls in a 18 wheeler.
STL map boy Anything west of the Miss River is good with me.
Quote from: allniter89 on June 30, 2020, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on June 29, 2020, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
The tolls for the NYC bridges for 18 wheelers are unbelievable! I hear the G Washington bridge is $100+. Plus there are hundreds of low underpasses, no truck parking & that NYC attitude.
Wait wait wait hold up stop the f***in presses. $100+ toll? Please tell me the load for the trip offsets that balance.
To think I thought the car tolls were already a kick in the ass.
iPhone
I drove a co truck so I was reinbursed, its just the gall of charging $100 to cross one short bridge. Then you likely will have to for another bridge before you get where your going.
Its almost impossible to avoid the tolls in a 18 wheeler.
STL map boy Anything west of the Miss River is good with me.
Of course its crazy to charge that much, but its to pay for the wear & tear on the bridge from driving on it & for entering the biggest & "best city" in the world.
Luckily once you're in NYC it isnt hard to get around. At least I think its not lmao.
iPhone
Renton, because it's a cesspit of traffic and awful people.
When I was living and working in SoCal, the one place I tried (usually unsuccessfully) to avoid was Corona, which during that time (2003-11) was "traffic central" -- the worst of the worst. But periodic company meetings at the Irvine HQ dragged me down there at least once every couple of weeks from my usual Ontario location -- so unless I wanted to either schlep the long way around through Brea or Carbon Canyons (CA 57 & 142 respectively), there was little choice in the matter. Being the gateway to CA 91/Santa Ana Canyon didn't help much with Corona's status either!
Up here in San Jose, the one area I tended to avoid was anything in Contra Costa County along I-680 simply because of congestion, mostly stemming from traffic off CA 24. But a couple of years ago a business associate -- who required regular visits with product prototypes -- relocated from Rancho Cordova down to Galt, so accessing the I-80 corridor was no longer a real option -- nor particularly necessary. But it seems like unless off-peak travel can be arranged, it's been like trading the frying pan for the fire, particularly in regard to the Pleasanton/Livermore area along I-580, which is best to avoid early mornings and most late afternoons. It's not one town in particular, given the CA idiom of one 'burb blending into another.
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2020, 08:11:06 AM
When I was living and working in SoCal, the one place I tried (usually unsuccessfully) to avoid was Corona
Man, were you ahead of your time!!! :-D :rofl:
Quote from: tdindy88 on June 28, 2020, 10:58:12 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 28, 2020, 08:40:20 PM
Used to avoid Waukesha but that is nearly impossible now. Given so many people I know live there and it is the only suburb in metro Milwaukee with a riverwalk. The city I can and will avoid now is Greenwood Indiana just south of Indianapolis. If I am ever passing through on I-65 and need to exit it won't be there. Learned about the speed trap that town is.
You must have passed through at the wrong time because locally Greenwood is not really known as a speed trap. While going the speed limit is generally done on the local roads along the interstate I do 70-80 on a regular basis and so does everyone else. Believe me, it isn't that much of a speed trap.
Now, up north in Carmel and Westfield along the new US 31 freeway, whole different story. It's one of the few highways you do want to watch your speed. Same with I-69 through Bloomington. For some reason if a highway is improved it brings the local police out a whole lot more. Carmel recently was mentioned as a city that like to pull over more people "who weren't from Carmel" more often.
As far as actual cities to avoid in Indiana, the number one spot goes to an obvious choice: Gary. It's run-down reputation is well earned. At least Detroit is a city that has some promise, Gary really isn't. And while many would say the whole of Lake County could be avoided, nearby cities such as Hammond, East Chicago and Whiting aren't all too bad, but Gary...yeah there's no reason to be there.
I got pulled over on Worthsville Rd just west of I-65. I wanted to check out the new DDI there the cop pulled me over for speeding in a school zone even though I saw no kids nearby. While he did miraculously let me off I see no reason why I even should have been pulled over. I was doing between 35-40 and that is by no means an unsafe speed for that road. It was just nuts all that just because I wanted to see a new interchange.
Quote from: Thing 342 on June 29, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
* Stafford, VA - Home to one of the worst-timed stoplights in the state at the intersection of US-1 and Courthouse Rd. The light, which lets roughly 10 cars on US-1 pass per cycle, almost totally rules out US-1 as an effective bypass for the frequently-congested I-95, as traffic on US-1 often backs up for miles on each side.
Ugh, yes, this. Back in December I bought a car in the Garrisonville area, and while getting up there was a breeze, the return trip took 4 hours, most of which was going from Garrisonville to Fredericksburg. Accidents on both 95 and 1.
Quote from: Thing 342 on June 29, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
* Stafford, VA - Home to one of the worst-timed stoplights in the state at the intersection of US-1 and Courthouse Rd. The light, which lets roughly 10 cars on US-1 pass per cycle, almost totally rules out US-1 as an effective bypass for the frequently-congested I-95, as traffic on US-1 often backs up for miles on each side. [Illustrated by StreetView] (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4229296,-77.4080744,3a,75y,204.44h,77.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3BGwE_d2n39Zmz8ezy8CpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
That light absolutely sucks, especially when I-95 is congested and you basically have to use US 1. Traffic backs up into the area near the old Stafford Wayside on a regular basis. That intersection badly needs reconfiguring but there's insufficient ROW to do much with it.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 29, 2020, 09:46:18 PM
I'm sure some of that just comes down to workload. The city cops would probably love to stop you for that headlight and poke into whatever you're doing, but have too much other stuff going on for it to be worth their time.
I've actually had a Hernando County Deputy Sheriff tell me one of my headlights was out while he was directing traffic one night. Luckily this was during a time when the Wal-Mart near me was open 24/7 and I could just go in an grab one from the automotive section anytime I wanted.
Quote from: DandyDan on June 30, 2020, 05:35:12 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 28, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
There used to be a rule of thumb for bad speed traps in the Chicago area. If Springs (Western Sprs, Willow Sprs) or Park (Oak Park, Villa Park, etc) was in the name, you got to go 1 under the speed limit.
I would try to make a way to fit Carol Stream into that rule. When I lived in the west suburbs back in the 90's, I got pulled over there twice and my brother got pulled over once when he finally brought his family to the area.
I would love to say anywhere the Iowa State Patrol operates, but being I live in Iowa, that will prove a challenge.
Yup. Carol Stream is another one especially along North Ave. Maybe towns that have double names?
I usually try to avoid the downtown of any major city I pass through.
For example, I've used I-410 around the southeast side of San Antonio plenty of times. The only time I've taken I-35 straight through was when I was following someone else.
Similarly, even though I've driven between San Antonio and Monterrey a dozen times in the last dozen years, I haven't crossed the border in Laredo itself since I was a kid on family vacation. As an adult driver, I've always chosen to cross at Colombia instead to avoid the Laredos.
Notable exceptions:
* Except close to rush hour, I go straight through downtown KC on I-35. I used to take I-435 or I-635/29 as a bypass, but in recent years I've realized traffic is usually fine downtown.
* When transitioning from SB I-35 to WB I-44 in Oklahoma City, I use I-40 instead of taking I-44 all the way. Even though 40 goes closer to downtown, the one time I took 44 around the north side was a major headache.
* Google Maps thinks I should take the eastern bypass around Monclova (Coahuila Mexico), but I've never used it once. My friends have used it several times but, at the same time, have told me it's not worth it due to poor road conditions and lots of trucks. Not sure why they've kept using it, then.
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 01, 2020, 04:30:47 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on June 30, 2020, 05:35:12 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 28, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
There used to be a rule of thumb for bad speed traps in the Chicago area. If Springs (Western Sprs, Willow Sprs) or Park (Oak Park, Villa Park, etc) was in the name, you got to go 1 under the speed limit.
I would try to make a way to fit Carol Stream into that rule. When I lived in the west suburbs back in the 90's, I got pulled over there twice and my brother got pulled over once when he finally brought his family to the area.
I would love to say anywhere the Iowa State Patrol operates, but being I live in Iowa, that will prove a challenge.
Yup. Carol Stream is another one especially along North Ave. Maybe towns that have double names?
Hmm, I've never been pulled over* in Carol Stream, even though I used to live and work there. Granted, I didn't have a car for a lot of that time, so it was only other people's cars I would be driving, but still...
OTOH, I hardly ever used North Avenue. I hardly ever went north of that line, and my usual routes east and west used other roads instead (especially St Charles Road).
* However, I was once pulled over in my then-girlfriend's car just several yards outside the Carol Stream city limits. I didn't come to a full stop at this red light (https://goo.gl/maps/opacGcT55StBvsfz5) because it had just turned red and cross-traffic hadn't started going yet. Unfortunately for me, the first car in line getting the green was a police officer, so he ended up directly behind me and promptly pulled me over. No ticket, though. I don't remember which department the officer was with–Wheaton or Carol Stream.
For me, anywhere in the Bronx east of Webster Avenue (or the Metro-North Harlem Line), south of Fordham Road and west of the Hutchinson River Parkway.
Why?
Because I don't want to have to drive along the Cross Bronx or Bruckner Expressways and have to look at the demolished Sheridan Expressway as I go by. And the same goes for riding any of the subway lines that pass near it. So aside from Metro-North I'll ride either the IND Concourse Line or IRT Jerome Avenue Line or nothing. And when I drive into NYC from Florida, I take the Major Deegan to the Triborough Bridge no matter what!
For the same reason, I won't take the Staten Island Expressway so I can avoid having to look at the demolished Todt Hill interchange.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2020, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2020, 08:11:06 AM
When I was living and working in SoCal, the one place I tried (usually unsuccessfully) to avoid was Corona
Man, were you ahead of your time!!! :-D :rofl:
Very punny! That town's getting a lot of unwanted shit-talking these days, according to an industry colleague whose company is located there (he's a half-block off CA 91 in the west part of town) -- such as
"...You're in Corona? Could you disinfect the amp before you ship it out.....please?" Says it gets a bit tiring after a while!
When we came back from Alabama a tornado came in and my wife was driving and I asked if she wanted to stop in Tuscaloosa to ride it out and she kept driving
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 30, 2020, 10:59:08 AMI avoid Timpson and Tenaha in east Texas.
Tenaha is infamous for running a asset forfeiture scam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenaha,_Texas#Asset_forfeiture_controversy). It was ultimately resolved in a court settlement involving the ACLU, but personally I think the officials involved got off too lightly and there should have been some breaking of rice bowls (disbarment of the prosecutor who signed off on the seizures and disqualification of the LEOs responsible).
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 01, 2020, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 30, 2020, 10:59:08 AMI avoid Timpson and Tenaha in east Texas.
Tenaha is infamous for running a asset forfeiture scam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenaha,_Texas#Asset_forfeiture_controversy). It was ultimately resolved in a court settlement involving the ACLU, but personally I think the officials involved got off too lightly and there should have been some breaking of rice bowls (disbarment of the prosecutor who signed off on the seizures and disqualification of the LEOs responsible).
Sounds like a I-69/369 bypass can't come too soon! Just as long as they don't pull a Ridgeland and annex/patrol the new freeway!
Quote from: plain on June 29, 2020, 08:39:59 PM
Ashland, VA.
I haven't set foot in that town since about 2012 because of the cops. If there's even just a minor infraction with your vehicle, like something most other jurisdictions wouldn't even bother with, you WILL get pulled over. Add the fact that both the Ashland Police Department and Hanover County Sheriff Department patrol there...
Quote from: Thing 342 on June 29, 2020, 10:51:31 PM
* Stafford, VA - Home to one of the worst-timed stoplights in the state at the intersection of US-1 and Courthouse Rd. The light, which lets roughly 10 cars on US-1 pass per cycle, almost totally rules out US-1 as an effective bypass for the frequently-congested I-95, as traffic on US-1 often backs up for miles on each side. [Illustrated by StreetView] (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4229296,-77.4080744,3a,75y,204.44h,77.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3BGwE_d2n39Zmz8ezy8CpA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Ashland and Stafford, Virginia. Boy, I must've lucked out in the times I was in those towns. Being the railfan I am, I get a kick out of Ashland. Not that it makes a difference whether the cops will pull you over or not, but that's besides the point. The last time I was there, I parked in a public parking space so I could get more pictures of the station and the trains that run along Railroad Avenue/Center Street. Unfortunately North Railroad Avenue north of the railroad crossing at VA 54 was closed for construction. That really got in the way of me getting some replacements for pictures I took in 2009.
Stafford has always been interesting to me because of the wide divider along US 1. The same goes for the area between Triangle and Dumfries.
Funny story? I was driving a truck with a load from Houston to Mobile, AL. I didnt know I had a headlight out, I was going thru a weigh station in LA the cop came out told me I had a headlight out & asked where I was going. He wanted me to say "I'm going to a trkstop to get a headlight". Twice I told him I was going to Mobile b4 I caught on & said "I was going to a trk stop to get a headlight'".
I'd have to name Lafayette, Indiana as a place that I try to avoid. First off, for a small city, the traffic is just awful. Every road in the area is perpetually under construction and being Indiana there is absolutely no provision to accommodate traffic flow because they don't care. This includes I-65, which also has low construction speed limits and cops hiding behind every tree. Not to mention that, for a college town, it's really plain and dumpy. Nothing to see and nothing is nice there (aside from Purdue itself - in West Lafayette). Quite trashy, actually.
Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid Indiana overall, though I can't always do so. It's a boring state (even the "scenic" parts are maybe like a suburb of Baltimore) and at least half of it's interstate system has constantly been torn up since at least 1997. Always happy to reach whatever border there is to leave it.
Add me to the list that avoids driving in Chicago whenever I can. If I want to go to Chicago, I take the South Shore in and use public transit. I wasn't too impressed with downtown Chicago when I was there last year, it kind of smelled like ass.
When I moved to Knoxville in 2008, I was told by my first boss to avoid Grainger County because of my "northern" accent. He said they would shoot me there. I did clinch Grainger County, but I had local tags by that time.
Quote from: ce929wax on July 02, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
When I moved to Knoxville in 2008, I was told by my first boss to avoid Grainger County because of my "northern" accent. He said they would shoot me there. I did clinch Grainger County, but I had local tags by that time.
Sounds like the county really hates northerners for you to avoid it.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 01, 2020, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 30, 2020, 10:59:08 AMI avoid Timpson and Tenaha in east Texas.
Tenaha is infamous for running a asset forfeiture scam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenaha,_Texas#Asset_forfeiture_controversy). It was ultimately resolved in a court settlement involving the ACLU, but personally I think the officials involved got off too lightly and there should have been some breaking of rice bowls (disbarment of the prosecutor who signed off on the seizures and disqualification of the LEOs responsible).
Follow your GPS. Unless you are going to Louisiana, it will take you off of 59 in Nacogdoches and put you back on it in Carthage. Shorter, faster, as good of road, and no Teneha. (US259 to SH315.)
Quote from: bwana39 on July 03, 2020, 11:30:52 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 01, 2020, 04:56:34 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 30, 2020, 10:59:08 AMI avoid Timpson and Tenaha in east Texas.
Tenaha is infamous for running a asset forfeiture scam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenaha,_Texas#Asset_forfeiture_controversy). It was ultimately resolved in a court settlement involving the ACLU, but personally I think the officials involved got off too lightly and there should have been some breaking of rice bowls (disbarment of the prosecutor who signed off on the seizures and disqualification of the LEOs responsible).
Follow your GPS. Unless you are going to Louisiana, it will take you off of 59 in Nacogdoches and put you back on it in Carthage. Shorter, faster, as good of road, and no Teneha. (US259 to SH315.)
Yeah I know. I usually go the SH 315/US 259 route anyway.
Quote from: ce929wax on July 02, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
Add me to the list that avoids driving in Chicago whenever I can. If I want to go to Chicago, I take the South Shore in and use public transit. I wasn't too impressed with downtown Chicago when I was there last year, it kind of smelled like ass.
In the off chance that I ever do go to Chicago, it'd probably be to ride the rails. But I'd still have to park my car somewhere in the city. You seem lucky enough that you can drive down from Michigan to South Bend or Michigan City and catch the South Shore Line.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 03, 2020, 12:14:02 PM
Quote from: ce929wax on July 02, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
Add me to the list that avoids driving in Chicago whenever I can. If I want to go to Chicago, I take the South Shore in and use public transit. I wasn't too impressed with downtown Chicago when I was there last year, it kind of smelled like ass.
In the off chance that I ever do go to Chicago, it'd probably be to ride the rails. But I'd still have to park my car somewhere in the city. You seem lucky enough that you can drive down from Michigan to South Bend or Michigan City and catch the South Shore Line.
Everytime I've parked in the city of Chicago I parked at the Cumberland park and ride lot off the Kennedy then take the Blue Line to downtown. It's cheaper.
Quote from: Verlanka on July 03, 2020, 04:54:40 AM
Quote from: ce929wax on July 02, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
When I moved to Knoxville in 2008, I was told by my first boss to avoid Grainger County because of my "northern" accent. He said they would shoot me there. I did clinch Grainger County, but I had local tags by that time.
Sounds like the county really hates northerners for you to avoid it.
Bit of an exaggeration, it's just a very poor, very rural county that no one would want to make a stop in for too long.
As for me, on trips between Tennessee and Delaware I always take I-81 to I-70 in Hagerstown just to avoid Washington. There will always be traffic on the Beltway no matter what the hour of the day.
Quote from: mrcmc888 on July 04, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
Quote from: Verlanka on July 03, 2020, 04:54:40 AM
Quote from: ce929wax on July 02, 2020, 11:28:18 PM
When I moved to Knoxville in 2008, I was told by my first boss to avoid Grainger County because of my "northern" accent. He said they would shoot me there. I did clinch Grainger County, but I had local tags by that time.
Sounds like the county really hates northerners for you to avoid it.
Bit of an exaggeration, it's just a very poor, very rural county that no one would want to make a stop in for too long.
As for me, on trips between Tennessee and Delaware I always take I-81 to I-70 in Hagerstown just to avoid Washington. There will always be traffic on the Beltway no matter what the hour of the day.
I-95 south to Richmond isn't a piece of cake either, especially during peak weekends. I would prefer I-81 and I-70 any day over I-95.
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 04, 2020, 12:39:08 PM
Quote from: mrcmc888 on July 04, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
As for me, on trips between Tennessee and Delaware I always take I-81 to I-70 in Hagerstown just to avoid Washington. There will always be traffic on the Beltway no matter what the hour of the day.
I-95 south to Richmond isn't a piece of cake either, especially during peak weekends. I would prefer I-81 and I-70 any day over I-95.
I could be wrong, but I don't think this route would involve I-95 either way. It would be I-66 if not I-70.
From I-81, VA 7 to US 340 to I-70 is another option that avoids Washington.
Depending on where in Delaware, I might cut over to Charlottesville on I-64 and then use one of a variety of options northeast to the Fredericksburg area, then up US-301 over the Gov. Nice Bridge. Slightly less out of the way and less time on I-81. (Going to Hagerstown takes you slightly out of the way to the north before turning east. Slightly, not severely, to be sure.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 04, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
(Going to Hagerstown takes you slightly out of the way to the north before turning east. Slightly, not severely, to be sure.)
Google says I-81 to I-70 is pretty much identical time-wise to the Harpers Ferry route: 1hr 7min either way (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Frederick,+MD/Winchester,+VA+22601/@39.3631922,-78.0330369,10z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c9c50c8cbdaee3:0xda6247bdbd111c99!2m2!1d-77.4105409!2d39.4142688!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b5eef740674ac1:0x91b50a0f9c168184!2m2!1d-78.1633341!2d39.1856597!3e0!5m1!1e1) as I type this.
However, the I-81 to I-70 route is 20
miles longer: 69 miles vs 49 miles through Harpers Ferry.
That's somewhere right in between slight and severe, IMO.
Quote from: webny99 on July 04, 2020, 01:22:06 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 04, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
(Going to Hagerstown takes you slightly out of the way to the north before turning east. Slightly, not severely, to be sure.)
Google says I-81 to I-70 is pretty much identical time-wise to the Harpers Ferry route: 1hr 7min either way (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Frederick,+MD/Winchester,+VA+22601/@39.3631922,-78.0330369,10z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89c9c50c8cbdaee3:0xda6247bdbd111c99!2m2!1d-77.4105409!2d39.4142688!1m5!1m1!1s0x89b5eef740674ac1:0x91b50a0f9c168184!2m2!1d-78.1633341!2d39.1856597!3e0!5m1!1e1) as I type this.
However, the I-81 to I-70 route is 20 miles longer: 69 miles vs 49 miles through Harpers Ferry.
That's somewhere right in between slight and severe, IMO.
Depends on the overall trip distance. For example, if I drive down to visit my relatives in Fort Myers, an extra 20 miles is nothing, given that the overall drive is between 1000 and 1100 miles (depending on route), whereas if I'm driving to, say, Charlottesville, 20 miles is roughly an extra 20% of the one-way distance.
Quote from: Tonytone on June 29, 2020, 11:51:59 PM
Quote from: allniter89 on June 29, 2020, 11:41:58 PM
The tolls for the NYC bridges for 18 wheelers are unbelievable! I hear the G Washington bridge is $100+. Plus there are hundreds of low underpasses, no truck parking & that NYC attitude.
Wait wait wait hold up stop the f***in presses. $100+ toll? Please tell me the load for the trip offsets that balance.
To think I thought the car tolls were already a kick in the ass.
iPhone
Yea, the George Washington Bridge is in the range of $105 for a big-rig truck, collected eastbound/northbound ONLY. It is *FREE* the other way. It's the same as charging $52.50 each way.
Mike
I can't drive, but my parents used to avoid DT Denver like the plague. After living in CO for a while now, they have stopped using E-470, as unless it's rush hour, it's not worth it. Most traffic can be avoided using the Express Lanes for half the cost.
EDIT:
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
EDIT:
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
I went to the aquarium, and it was fine.
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
NEVER go to Camden {snip} it was atrocious! /s.
A few years ago while exploring Philly, I rode through Camden on the Lindenwold Rail Line. While Camden did not loo that inviting, I was planning to return (after the virus risk decreases) to check out the NJT River Line. During daylight hours maybe ok.
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
I can't drive, but my parents used to avoid DT Denver like the plague. After living in CO for a while now, they have stopped using E-470, as unless it's rush hour, it's not worth it. Most traffic can be avoided using the Express Lanes for half the cost.
EDIT:
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
We took the ferry across from Philadelphia to go to a concert at the amphitheater along the river in Camden (at the time it was the Tweeter Center, don't know about now). That area was fine. Most of the rest of the city has a bad reputation.
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
I'm gonna have to defend Baltimore a bit. Yes, it has its rough spots for sure - the ones you try to avoid even during the day. But there are many places in the city that are quite nice. The Inner Harbor, the National Aquarium, Science Center, Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium, Fells Point, etc. Also many residential neighborhoods are nice. The city - as a whole - doesn't deserve that reputation. We call it "Charm City" for a reason :)
Now ... I will admit that the one time I drove into Camden NJ (coming from Cherry Hill NJ) I soon turned around and went back out ... it got rather icky rather fast. :wow:
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
Quote from: dlsterner on July 09, 2020, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
I'm gonna have to defend Baltimore a bit. Yes, it has its rough spots for sure - the ones you try to avoid even during the day. But there are many places in the city that are quite nice. The Inner Harbor, the National Aquarium, Science Center, Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium, Fells Point, etc. Also many residential neighborhoods are nice. The city - as a whole - doesn't deserve that reputation. We call it "Charm City" for a reason :)
Now ... I will admit that the one time I drove into Camden NJ (coming from Cherry Hill NJ) I soon turned around and went back out ... it got rather icky rather fast. :wow:
Sarcasm implied for the Baltimore comment. Got to go to a summer camp there, and we went through some cosmetically displeasing areas, but nothing as bad as Camden. We saw some people fighting near the Ben Franklin toll plaza, not the safest place.
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 11:28:01 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 09, 2020, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: MCRoads on July 09, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
Almost forgot! NEVER go to Camden. We went across the Ben Franklin Bridge to say we crossed the Delaware (though we crossed on the Delaware Memorial on our way to NYC), and it was atrocious! It was almost as bad as Baltimore! /s.
I'm gonna have to defend Baltimore a bit. Yes, it has its rough spots for sure - the ones you try to avoid even during the day. But there are many places in the city that are quite nice. The Inner Harbor, the National Aquarium, Science Center, Camden Yards and M&T Bank Stadium, Fells Point, etc. Also many residential neighborhoods are nice. The city - as a whole - doesn't deserve that reputation. We call it "Charm City" for a reason :)
Now ... I will admit that the one time I drove into Camden NJ (coming from Cherry Hill NJ) I soon turned around and went back out ... it got rather icky rather fast. :wow:
Sarcasm implied for the Baltimore comment. Got to go to a summer camp there, and we went through some cosmetically displeasing areas, but nothing as bad as Camden. We saw some people fighting near the Ben Franklin toll plaza, not the safest place.
Fair enough :)
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I understand, the fear factor is different when you're up close, but cmon Camden isn't that bad.
There are blocks in N philly that will make Camden look like ardmore, PA.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 12:06:22 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I understand, the fear factor is different when you're up close, but cmon Camden isn't that bad.
There are blocks in N philly that will make Camden look like ardmore, PA.
iPhone
Camden isn't really that bad and its getting better again. It has more than its share of rough areas and a bad reputation but I grew up fairly close to it and have driven through it countless times without incident day and night.
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I used to make deliveries in East Saint Louis. That's a town most people in the area avoided but had no problem traversing on the Interstate.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I used to make deliveries in East Saint Louis. That's a town most people in the area avoided but had no problem traversing on the Interstate.
Exactly. Its like hey that shoe aint on my foot so im not worried.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I used to make deliveries in East Saint Louis. That's a town most people in the area avoided but had no problem traversing on the Interstate.
Exactly. Its like hey that shoe aint on my foot so im not worried.
No, I think it's more like driving through on a freeway doesn't really put you "in" a town the way sitting at a stoplight does. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I suspect car-jackings are less common on Interstates than on city streets.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 10:18:46 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I used to make deliveries in East Saint Louis. That's a town most people in the area avoided but had no problem traversing on the Interstate.
Exactly. Its like hey that shoe aint on my foot so im not worried.
No, I think it's more like driving through on a freeway doesn't really put you "in" a town the way sitting at a stoplight does. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I suspect car-jackings are less common on Interstates than on city streets.
Or maybe if you are scary you think everything is like a movie or GTA game.
iPhone
Most of my customers were at fairly secure facilities, including the federal court house, the East Saint Louis campus of SIU, and once even (very secure!) the federal prison. Still, though, out of the probably 100 towns I delivered to as part of that job, East Saint Louis was the only where I made sure to shut off the truck and put the keys in my pocket when making deliveries.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 10:39:22 AM
Most of my customers were at fairly secure facilities, including the federal court house, the East Saint Louis campus of SIU, and once even (very secure!) the federal prison. Still, though, out of the probably 100 towns I delivered to as part of that job, East Saint Louis was the only where I made sure to shut off the truck and put the keys in my pocket when making deliveries.
Now dont get me wrong you do have to make sure valuables or your vehicle isnt running while in areas that have higher crime but that can also be anywhere else as well.
But seeing a place & turning around is crazy that reminds me of something that would happen in the "white flight" era.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
Now dont get me wrong you do have to make sure valuables or your vehicle isnt running while in areas that have higher crime but that can also be anywhere else as well.
That year, East Saint Louis topped 100 homicides per 100,000 population. Burglaries were over 2200 per 100,00 population. For the sake of comparison, that's roughly twice what Camden had for the year. East Saint Louis really is a very high-crime town.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
Now dont get me wrong you do have to make sure valuables or your vehicle isnt running while in areas that have higher crime but that can also be anywhere else as well.
That year, East Saint Louis topped 100 homicides per 100,000 population. Burglaries were over 2200 per 100,00 population. For the sake of comparison, that's roughly twice what Camden had for the year. East Saint Louis really is a very high-crime town.
East St. Louis makes Detroit look like paradise.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
Now dont get me wrong you do have to make sure valuables or your vehicle isnt running while in areas that have higher crime but that can also be anywhere else as well.
That year, East Saint Louis topped 100 homicides per 100,000 population. Burglaries were over 2200 per 100,00 population. For the sake of comparison, that's roughly twice what Camden had for the year. East Saint Louis really is a very high-crime town.
I was driving in an out-of-towner's car once (returning from Marion, IL) and Waze put us through ESTL to avoid a crash at the MLK Bridge/freeway interchange. It was five minutes on surface streets (passing by the likes of this (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6245162,-90.1506118,3a,75y,196.62h,88.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPQvq6ycOmzyDq5xe7YksUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) and this (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6245162,-90.1506118,3a,75y,324.1h,98.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPQvq6ycOmzyDq5xe7YksUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/)), but it felt like an eternity. It's one of the few places I've encountered a shot-out traffic light.
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 10, 2020, 11:25:25 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 11:15:16 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 11:07:12 AM
Now dont get me wrong you do have to make sure valuables or your vehicle isnt running while in areas that have higher crime but that can also be anywhere else as well.
That year, East Saint Louis topped 100 homicides per 100,000 population. Burglaries were over 2200 per 100,00 population. For the sake of comparison, that's roughly twice what Camden had for the year. East Saint Louis really is a very high-crime town.
I was driving in an out-of-towner's car once (returning from Marion, IL) and Waze put us through ESTL to avoid a crash at the MLK Bridge/freeway interchange. It was five minutes on surface streets (passing by the likes of this (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6245162,-90.1506118,3a,75y,196.62h,88.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPQvq6ycOmzyDq5xe7YksUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) and this (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6245162,-90.1506118,3a,75y,324.1h,98.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPQvq6ycOmzyDq5xe7YksUA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/)), but it felt like an eternity. It's one of the few places I've encountered a shot-out traffic light.
This right here is very clean. Chester, Pa has much worse just like Kensington in Philly.
The thing alot of people don't realize in areas that are "ghetto/hood" if you act like a regular person just going on about your business no one will mess with you.
However acting scared & looking like you are lost will probably attract some attention.
iPhone
I used East St. Louis as a secondary hub when I visited St. Louis four years ago. It does have many shuttered buildings and patches of urban prairie where vacant houses have been demolished. My experience with depressed neighborhoods is much as Tonytone describes--be purposive and look like you know what you are doing, and you generally won't be bothered.
I actually did some exploration on foot in the neighborhood surrounding the Emerson Park Metrolink station, which is near the I-55/I-64/SR 3 interchange complex where I-70 ties back in after crossing the Mississippi River. I left my car unattended in the lot there for about eight hours on Sunday; the only additional measure I took to protect it was to park directly underneath one of the lamps. (I locked it after I ensured no loose objects could be seen through the windows, but I do this whenever I park for an extended period of time. I know from personal experience that even in safe neighborhoods thieves will think nothing about causing $200 worth of damage to a car door to get at a camera tripod that looks valuable but is only worth about $30.)
The real issue with East. St. Louis, I think, is that I-55/I-64/I-70 just east of the Mississippi River is a cat's cradle with confusing and overloaded signing. It becomes easy to navigate once you memorize the lane and ramp layouts, but it takes time to do so, and off the freeway it can be challenging to find a place where you can pull over and study a map undisturbed. At one point I got lost after dark trying to make a connection to SR 3 northbound (I was staying at a motel just off I-270/SR 3 near the Chain of Rocks Bridge), and pulled into a gas station on Collinsville Avenue (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6286857,-90.1559045,3a,38.6y,60.44h,87.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.362816%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192). I had people approaching me, presumably to try scams.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 10, 2020, 02:29:14 PM
The real issue with East. St. Louis, I think, is that I-55/I-64/I-70 just east of the Mississippi River is a cat's cradle with confusing and overloaded signing. It becomes easy to navigate once you memorize the lane and ramp layouts, but it takes time to do so, and off the freeway it can be challenging to find a place where you can pull over and study a map undisturbed. At one point I got lost after dark trying to make a connection to SR 3 northbound (I was staying at a motel just off I-270/SR 3 near the Chain of Rocks Bridge), and pulled into a gas station on Collinsville Avenue (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6286857,-90.1559045,3a,38.6y,60.44h,87.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.362816%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192). I had people approaching me, presumably to try scams.
That sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.
Being in the middle of downtown East Saint Louis isn't bad. But, if you get off the beaten path, you find yourself surrounded by more sketchy folk. For example, when I had to make a deliver near here (https://goo.gl/maps/QnXAcBLvzKjuC2nJ8), I wasn't sure I should even get out of the truck based on the hairy eyeballs I was getting from everyone along the street. Then I realized that a big truck with a company name on it, and a guy getting out of said truck with boxes in hand, is a different situation than Joe Schmoe getting out of his car.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 09:44:23 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 10, 2020, 12:02:37 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
There's a definite difference in passing through an area on a limited access highway and passing through an area on a surface street.
I have no issues with I-95 through Chester. My venture into Camden was on a surface street.
I used to make deliveries in East Saint Louis. That's a town most people in the area avoided but had no problem traversing on the Interstate.
Went to Fantasyland there 22 years ago. definitely was the "other side of the tracks"
My favorite thing about East St Louis is knowing that Miles Davis and Jackie Joyner-Kersee both went to East St Louis Lincoln HS.
Bet Clark W. Griswold Jr. will never drive through East St. Louis ever again.
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
Ever seen "The Wire"?
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 11, 2020, 12:57:50 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
Ever seen "The Wire"?
No but I didn't any of that stuff.
Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2020, 02:40:14 PMThat sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.
It was a well-lit location with potential witnesses nearby, so I was more concerned about the nuisance value than any threat to my safety. A person who is trying to scam you for money is probably not going to mug you, though it certainly does make sense to "stay in Condition Yellow to stay out of Condition Red" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper#Combat_mindset_and_the_Cooper_color_code) (as dozens of self-defense how-to books preach).
Retreating across the river to St. Louis was not a viable option. When I got lost at the beginning, the freeway was not in sight. When I stopped at the gas station, it was right in front of me, but there was no on-ramp nearby, and I actually suspect the nearest one that would have taken me to St. Louis was at SR 3, the route I was trying to find.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 02:50:26 PMBeing in the middle of downtown East Saint Louis isn't bad. But, if you get off the beaten path, you find yourself surrounded by more sketchy folk. For example, when I had to make a deliver near here (https://goo.gl/maps/QnXAcBLvzKjuC2nJ8), I wasn't sure I should even get out of the truck based on the hairy eyeballs I was getting from everyone along the street. Then I realized that a big truck with a company name on it, and a guy getting out of said truck with boxes in hand, is a different situation than Joe Schmoe getting out of his car.
Once a neighborhood falls in on itself by depopulating, so that patches of urban prairie start appearing while occupied structures fall into visible dilapidation, four-way stops (as shown in your StreetView extract) start appearing at every street intersection, not always as replacements for signals that are decommissioned due to lack of traffic. This is true not just in East St. Louis but also in, e.g., the Fountain neighborhood of St. Louis, which is just west of the oak/hickory woodland that has replaced the long-demolished Pruitt-Igoe housing project.
I try to stay out of these thickets of four-way stops for multiple reasons--they drive up wear and tear on brakes and suspension, they make it impossible to keep moving, and they expose me to hassle from law enforcement for not drawing to a full and complete stop at each and every intersection.
This said, I think East St. Louis is less ill-favored than the now-tiny burg of Venice, Illinois, which I passed through on SR 3 every time I used it to connect to my motel near the I-270 interchange. Venice is among several former factory towns on the Illinois side of the St. Louis metro area that are now essentially Love Canal-like toxic waste dumps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal), owing in part to it being formerly legal in Illinois for companies to charter their own towns (https://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/meltdown-in-venice-larry-burgan-wages-an-uphill-battle-to-prove-he-was-poisoned-by-radioactive-waste/Content?oid=2482959) and thus evade independent public-health oversight.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 11, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
This said, I think East St. Louis is less ill-favored than the now-tiny burg of Venice, Illinois, which I passed through on SR 3 every time I used it to connect to my motel near the I-270 interchange. Venice is among several former factory towns on the Illinois side of the St. Louis metro area that are now essentially Love Canal-like toxic waste dumps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal), owing in part to it being formerly legal in Illinois for companies to charter their own towns (https://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/meltdown-in-venice-larry-burgan-wages-an-uphill-battle-to-prove-he-was-poisoned-by-radioactive-waste/Content?oid=2482959) and thus evade independent public-health oversight.
I know some Missourians (including a close friend's dad) who go to Illinois for the strip clubs. Hollowed-out riverside 'burbs like Venice, Brooklyn, and Madison are ideal for this kind of thing; Brooklyn has a rather large cluster (https://www.google.pl/maps/search/adult+entertainment/@38.6572899,-90.1698849,297m/data=!3m1!1e3/). Marijuana retailers in places like Sauget also see business from St Louis.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 11, 2020, 02:58:28 PMI know some Missourians (including a close friend's dad) who go to Illinois for the strip clubs. Hollowed-out riverside 'burbs like Venice, Brooklyn, and Madison are ideal for this kind of thing; Brooklyn has a rather large cluster (https://www.google.pl/maps/search/adult+entertainment/@38.6572899,-90.1698849,297m/data=!3m1!1e3/). Marijuana retailers in places like Sauget also see business from St Louis.
Yup--I remember driving past the Pleasure Palace (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6561497,-90.1693597,3a,72.6y,334.53h,89.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVpfR9qPRKPZzNDHGu3-4CA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) (apparently an adult bookstore, not necesarily a strip club) on my runs between downtown East St. Louis and I-270. I always crawled past at a numbingly slow pace because Brooklyn has long had a reputation as a speed trap, and I was not interested in finding out whether that was still current.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2020, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.
Wonder what happened.
I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips. If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.
Quote from: Rothman on July 11, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2020, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.
Wonder what happened.
I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips. If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.
+1
iPhone
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 11, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2020, 02:40:14 PMThat sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.
It was a well-lit location with potential witnesses nearby, so I was more concerned about the nuisance value than any threat to my safety. A person who is trying to scam you for money is probably not going to mug you, though it certainly does make sense to "stay in Condition Yellow to stay out of Condition Red" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper#Combat_mindset_and_the_Cooper_color_code) (as dozens of self-defense how-to books preach).
Retreating across the river to St. Louis was not a viable option. When I got lost at the beginning, the freeway was not in sight. When I stopped at the gas station, it was right in front of me, but there was no on-ramp nearby, and I actually suspect the nearest one that would have taken me to St. Louis was at SR 3, the route I was trying to find.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 02:50:26 PMBeing in the middle of downtown East Saint Louis isn't bad. But, if you get off the beaten path, you find yourself surrounded by more sketchy folk. For example, when I had to make a deliver near here (https://goo.gl/maps/QnXAcBLvzKjuC2nJ8), I wasn't sure I should even get out of the truck based on the hairy eyeballs I was getting from everyone along the street. Then I realized that a big truck with a company name on it, and a guy getting out of said truck with boxes in hand, is a different situation than Joe Schmoe getting out of his car.
Once a neighborhood falls in on itself by depopulating, so that patches of urban prairie start appearing while occupied structures fall into visible dilapidation, four-way stops (as shown in your StreetView extract) start appearing at every street intersection, not always as replacements for signals that are decommissioned due to lack of traffic. This is true not just in East St. Louis but also in, e.g., the Fountain neighborhood of St. Louis, which is just west of the oak/hickory woodland that has replaced the long-demolished Pruitt-Igoe housing project.
I try to stay out of these thickets of four-way stops for multiple reasons--they drive up wear and tear on brakes and suspension, they make it impossible to keep moving, and they expose me to hassle from law enforcement for not drawing to a full and complete stop at each and every intersection.
It's interesting that if these neighborhoods are built up in the sense of homes, commercial properties & then after a while skyscrapers, the use of public transportation & other public uses are increased.
More bus stops will be added, traffic lights will be installed, roads will be widened as well as sidewalks & adding bike lanes & etc.
If a city were to properly grow most row homes would soon turn into businesses on the bottom with hones on top soon following skyscrapers & other city essentials.
iPhone
The worst I've seen on any road trip I've been on was in Chicago. This was in 2001 and I was in the Twin Cities. On the way home I wanted to check out the Brewers new stadium they were playing the Braves and I had an old Braves hat I wore. This was on my way back to Michigan so after the game I continued on towards Chicago and I-94 was a traffic nightmare right away coming out of Milwaukee so I decided to start using side streets and roads to bypass I-94 (this was before GPS systems were popular) so I started out following the lake shore and stayed as close to the lake shore as I could it took a long time to get to Chicago and it was starting to get late. I followed Sheridan Road most of the way and then hooked up with Lake Shore Drive in Chicago and easily went through town. Well the South Shore neighborhood isn't all that great and Lake Shore Drive dumps off into that. I pull up to a traffic light and there's a guy laying in the middle of the intersection with a bunch of people standing around. It was Chicago and on the South Side and then all of the sudden this guy pops back up and then collapses. I'm thinking where in the hell am I at? Then I got through that area and about a minute or two later I saw a sign that read the following: "I-94 Detroit" I thought to myself I've never been so happy to see a sign that says Detroit on it in my life.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.
As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 12, 2020, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.
Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 12, 2020, 03:48:59 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 12, 2020, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.
Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Hahahaha.
But to D-Deys remark: I think people forget how close everything is around here. It's tough going to nearly anyplace else in the US to find cities so close to each other. As a result, there's no need for a transportation center in Chester when there's already one 10-15 minutes away in Philly.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 12, 2020, 08:07:47 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 12, 2020, 03:48:59 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 12, 2020, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.
Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Hahahaha.
But to D-Deys remark: I think people forget how close everything is around here. It's tough going to nearly anyplace else in the US to find cities so close to each other. As a result, there's no need for a transportation center in Chester when there's already one 10-15 minutes away in Philly.
How our government & the people let Chester fall into disrepair because of the flight of factory & manufacturing jobs is very confusing & sad.
We have areas like this all over the US & its crazy. Chester could be a very nice area between Philly & Wilmington. Instead, it is a younger cousin we dont want to talk to.
iPhone
Quote from: kphoger on June 29, 2020, 02:56:48 PM
Fort Worth.
Because of common traffic jams on I-35W, I now go to Mexico by way of a completely different route south of OKC, crossing the border at Del Rio instead of Laredo. I haven't driven through Fort Worth since 2014.
Funny part is, it's only the third or fourth worst traffic city in its metro area.
Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2020, 02:40:14 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 10, 2020, 02:29:14 PM
The real issue with East. St. Louis, I think, is that I-55/I-64/I-70 just east of the Mississippi River is a cat's cradle with confusing and overloaded signing. It becomes easy to navigate once you memorize the lane and ramp layouts, but it takes time to do so, and off the freeway it can be challenging to find a place where you can pull over and study a map undisturbed. At one point I got lost after dark trying to make a connection to SR 3 northbound (I was staying at a motel just off I-270/SR 3 near the Chain of Rocks Bridge), and pulled into a gas station on Collinsville Avenue (https://www.google.pl/maps/@38.6286857,-90.1559045,3a,38.6y,60.44h,87.21t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dw-h-VmujmZ99YjDeZozppw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D70.362816%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192). I had people approaching me, presumably to try scams.
That sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.
I lived in the STL area for over 25 years. I never found ESL half as bad as many parts of North STL. Anywhere along a line from the west end of the Stan Span within six blocks of St Louis Av going west to the city limits has a several areas as bad or worse than anything you'd find in ESL. Some of the inner suburbs are pretty bad too; someone already mentioned Venice IL and you could add Pine Lawn, Wellston, Kinloch, and a couple of the Vinita fiefdoms in MO along with Brooklyn, Washington Park, Alorton, Centerville, and Fairmont City in IL. But honestly, the worst areas tend to move around as police play whack-a-mole with the gangs and drug dealers. I lived in Shaw when I first moved to STL and McRee just east of Vandeventor was Crack Central. (It's now somewhat revitalized/gentrified depending on your POV) After my apartment was robbed, my car broken into, and my locked bike stolen from the basement through a smashed window (all within a year), I moved near Bevo Mill just before the Bosnians moved in and revitalized the neighborhood.
For those not familiar with the city, Delmar is referred to as the Delmar Divide. This unofficial barrier dates back to the days of Jim Crow and redlining, and about 90% of the city's population north of Delmar is black. The city is still heavily segregated. Most, but not all the bad areas, are north of Delmar. Despite all this, the only towns I ever avoided were Pine Lawn which is pretty easily to avoid and St George before the village was disincorporated because of its notorious speed trap.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 12, 2020, 08:16:52 AM
How our government & the people let Chester fall into disrepair because of the flight of factory & manufacturing jobs is very confusing & sad.
We have areas like this all over the US & its crazy. Chester could be a very nice area between Philly & Wilmington. Instead, it is a younger cousin we dont want to talk to.
iPhone
I've seen cities all over the Carolinas and Virginia, and other parts of the southeast that had factories shutting down bringing them into decline as far back as when I started riding Greyhound up and down the east coast in 1999. Even they never got as bad as Chester. One of the other things that bums me out is that I don't remember the make and model of the pimpmobile I saw there.
Quote from: Rothman on July 11, 2020, 04:06:23 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 11, 2020, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 11, 2020, 12:36:06 AM
Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.
My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.
Wonder what happened.
I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips. If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.
I think she was trying to find some Edgar Allen Poe-related site, and was taking pictures of various buildings and sites as she was driving along. Someone threatened her and told her she didn't need to be taking any pictures.
Quote from: Bruce on July 12, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.
Examples?
Quote from: kphoger on July 13, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 12, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.
Examples?
This park (https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-indiana-investigating-alleged-gang-assault-black-man/story?id=71649734)
Quote from: skluth on July 13, 2020, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 13, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 12, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.
Examples?
This park (https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-indiana-investigating-alleged-gang-assault-black-man/story?id=71649734)
If the races had been reversed, I'm not sure that incident would make me avoid the park.
I've come within an inch of being mugged by a group of young black men on a Pace bus transfer platform in the south suburbs of Chicago. (Fortunately, just in the nick of time, my bus arrived, they followed me onto the bus, I explained what was happening to the driver, and she kicked them off.) But that experience wouldn't make me avoid the town or Markham, nor even avoid transferring buses at the same location, in the future.
If you are talking about speed traps, all the small towns along US 54 in southern Kansas from Wichita west are good places to avoid, Clark County in particular. The highway is only in Clark County for 10 miles, but they really hit it hard. Minneola is the only town on 54 in the county, but when the speed limit is 30, they mean 30.
Runners-up - Meade, Greensburg, Liberal
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:14:32 PM
I'd have to name Lafayette, Indiana as a place that I try to avoid. First off, for a small city, the traffic is just awful. Every road in the area is perpetually under construction and being Indiana there is absolutely no provision to accommodate traffic flow because they don't care. This includes I-65, which also has low construction speed limits and cops hiding behind every tree. Not to mention that, for a college town, it's really plain and dumpy. Nothing to see and nothing is nice there (aside from Purdue itself - in West Lafayette). Quite trashy, actually.
Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid Indiana overall, though I can't always do so. It's a boring state (even the "scenic" parts are maybe like a suburb of Baltimore) and at least half of it's interstate system has constantly been torn up since at least 1997. Always happy to reach whatever border there is to leave it.
Since when is Baltimore in Indiana?
Quote from: dvferyance on July 15, 2020, 10:58:37 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on July 02, 2020, 03:14:32 PM
I'd have to name Lafayette, Indiana as a place that I try to avoid. First off, for a small city, the traffic is just awful. Every road in the area is perpetually under construction and being Indiana there is absolutely no provision to accommodate traffic flow because they don't care. This includes I-65, which also has low construction speed limits and cops hiding behind every tree. Not to mention that, for a college town, it's really plain and dumpy. Nothing to see and nothing is nice there (aside from Purdue itself - in West Lafayette). Quite trashy, actually.
Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid Indiana overall, though I can't always do so. It's a boring state (even the "scenic" parts are maybe like a suburb of Baltimore) and at least half of it's interstate system has constantly been torn up since at least 1997. Always happy to reach whatever border there is to leave it.
Since when is Baltimore in Indiana?
Not what he was referring to, but:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore,_Indiana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore,_Indiana)
Baltimore, Indiana is a ghost town. It actually has suburbs?
Quote from: Big John on June 28, 2020, 07:08:00 PM
Rosendale WI - notorious speed trap
Amazing I've only seen this in the thread once.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 12, 2020, 03:48:59 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on July 12, 2020, 12:44:36 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 09, 2020, 11:17:15 PM
Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.
iPhone
I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.
Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
Chester, PA where light poles start to rust.
iPhone
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2020, 04:46:48 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2020, 12:02:04 PM
Quote from: sparker on July 01, 2020, 08:11:06 AM
When I was living and working in SoCal, the one place I tried (usually unsuccessfully) to avoid was Corona
Man, were you ahead of your time!!! :-D :rofl:
Very punny! That town's getting a lot of unwanted shit-talking these days, according to an industry colleague whose company is located there (he's a half-block off CA 91 in the west part of town) -- such as "...You're in Corona? Could you disinfect the amp before you ship it out.....please?" Says it gets a bit tiring after a while!
:bigass: It's funny how a city that was originally name after Crown is now getting a different meaning today.
Quote from: skluth on July 13, 2020, 03:49:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 13, 2020, 02:11:21 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 12, 2020, 12:59:14 AM
As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.
Examples?
This park (https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-indiana-investigating-alleged-gang-assault-black-man/story?id=71649734)
Ooof but not shocking though.
Quote from: J N Winkler on July 11, 2020, 01:25:45 PM
Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2020, 02:40:14 PMThat sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.
It was a well-lit location with potential witnesses nearby, so I was more concerned about the nuisance value than any threat to my safety. A person who is trying to scam you for money is probably not going to mug you, though it certainly does make sense to "stay in Condition Yellow to stay out of Condition Red" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Cooper#Combat_mindset_and_the_Cooper_color_code) (as dozens of self-defense how-to books preach).
Retreating across the river to St. Louis was not a viable option. When I got lost at the beginning, the freeway was not in sight. When I stopped at the gas station, it was right in front of me, but there was no on-ramp nearby, and I actually suspect the nearest one that would have taken me to St. Louis was at SR 3, the route I was trying to find.
Quote from: kphoger on July 10, 2020, 02:50:26 PMBeing in the middle of downtown East Saint Louis isn't bad. But, if you get off the beaten path, you find yourself surrounded by more sketchy folk. For example, when I had to make a deliver near here (https://goo.gl/maps/QnXAcBLvzKjuC2nJ8), I wasn't sure I should even get out of the truck based on the hairy eyeballs I was getting from everyone along the street. Then I realized that a big truck with a company name on it, and a guy getting out of said truck with boxes in hand, is a different situation than Joe Schmoe getting out of his car.
Once a neighborhood falls in on itself by depopulating, so that patches of urban prairie start appearing while occupied structures fall into visible dilapidation, four-way stops (as shown in your StreetView extract) start appearing at every street intersection, not always as replacements for signals that are decommissioned due to lack of traffic. This is true not just in East St. Louis but also in, e.g., the Fountain neighborhood of St. Louis, which is just west of the oak/hickory woodland that has replaced the long-demolished Pruitt-Igoe housing project.
I try to stay out of these thickets of four-way stops for multiple reasons--they drive up wear and tear on brakes and suspension, they make it impossible to keep moving, and they expose me to hassle from law enforcement for not drawing to a full and complete stop at each and every intersection.
This said, I think East St. Louis is less ill-favored than the now-tiny burg of Venice, Illinois, which I passed through on SR 3 every time I used it to connect to my motel near the I-270 interchange. Venice is among several former factory towns on the Illinois side of the St. Louis metro area that are now essentially Love Canal-like toxic waste dumps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Canal), owing in part to it being formerly legal in Illinois for companies to charter their own towns (https://www.riverfronttimes.com/stlouis/meltdown-in-venice-larry-burgan-wages-an-uphill-battle-to-prove-he-was-poisoned-by-radioactive-waste/Content?oid=2482959) and thus evade independent public-health oversight.
That whole cluster of small cities: ESTL, Venice, Brooklyn, Sauget, and up to Washington Park have fascinating UE opportunities. It's almost as if they'd make excellent case studies in urban plannning/sociology.
I don't ultimately avoid them on my drives between Columbia and Texas, but I'd say be careful going through any little bumfuck town in Oklahoma. Never gotten pulled over (knock on wood), but if the speed limits are any indication, they mean business. From 60-65 to 30 in a quarter mile or less!
Any time there's construction in Nashville I go around it (TN-109, I-840). Even if it isn't on my route, if one interstate backs up, the whole system can easily become a log jam (I'm always there at rush hour it seems).
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
New York has Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Belfast, Berlin, Bombay, Cairo, Copenhagen, Delhi, Dover, Florence, Geneva, Genoa, Hamburg, Jerusalem, Liverpool, Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Naples, Odessa, Orleans, Paris, Potsdam, Rome, Stockholm, Venice, Vienna, Warsaw
Cuba, German, Greece, Holland, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Mexico, Norway, Panama, Persia, Peru, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Wales
Quote from: 1 on August 09, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
New York has Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Belfast, Berlin, Bombay, Cairo, Copenhagen, Delhi, Dover, Florence, Geneva, Genoa, Hamburg, Jerusalem, Liverpool, Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Naples, Odessa, Orleans, Paris, Potsdam, Rome, Stockholm, Venice, Vienna, Warsaw
Cuba, German, Greece, Holland, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Mexico, Norway, Panama, Persia, Peru, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Wales
New York might win for world cities.
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 09, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
New York has Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Belfast, Berlin, Bombay, Cairo, Copenhagen, Delhi, Dover, Florence, Geneva, Genoa, Hamburg, Jerusalem, Liverpool, Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Naples, Odessa, Orleans, Paris, Potsdam, Rome, Stockholm, Venice, Vienna, Warsaw
Cuba, German, Greece, Holland, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Mexico, Norway, Panama, Persia, Peru, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Wales
New York might win for world cities.
But Texas has got 'em all in one place.
Earth!
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 08, 2020, 11:38:01 PM
I don't ultimately avoid them on my drives between Columbia and Texas, but I'd say be careful going through any little bumfuck town in Oklahoma. Never gotten pulled over (knock on wood), but if the speed limits are any indication, they mean business. From 60-65 to 30 in a quarter mile or less!
Bumfuck towns in Oklahoma are actually less threatening than bumfuck towns in any other state. If a town here gets more than a certain percentage of revenue from traffic fines, the city loses the right to issue
any traffic tickets (the county and OHP step in). This has caused at least one bumfuck town to dissolve because they went over the percentage, then suddenly they had no money coming in to pay government officials.
The speed limits are just ODOT being ODOT. At least they have a policy of gradually stepping down the speed limits (so instead of dropping from 65 to 35, you'll get 55 and a 45 zone first).
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:56:14 PMBumfuck towns in Oklahoma are actually less threatening than bumfuck towns in any other state. If a town here gets more than a certain percentage of revenue from traffic fines, the city loses the right to issue any traffic tickets (the county and OHP step in). This has caused at least one bumfuck town to dissolve because they went over the percentage, then suddenly they had no money coming in to pay government officials.
There are other states that have speedtrap laws providing for compulsory disincorporation of small towns that get too large a share of their revenue from traffic fines. Missouri's statute is informally called the "Macks Creek law" after a small town on US 54 just west of Camdenton that is now an unincorporated CDP as a result of it.
Casual Googling is not turning up any attempts to list the states that have speedtrap laws or summarize the specific provisions in each state that has one.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:56:14 PMThe speed limits are just ODOT being ODOT. At least they have a policy of gradually stepping down the speed limits (so instead of dropping from 65 to 35, you'll get 55 and a 45 zone first).
I have adjusted to these by simply cancelling the cruise control (if I am using it) as soon as I see the first sign that indicates a reduced limit. Other states, like Arizona, put up signs indicating that a reduced speed is ahead but do not state what it is. I like Kansas' approach of dropping the speed from 65 (usually) to 30 (usually) at the city limit sign, but providing signing far enough in advance that most cars can coast down to the reduced speed without actually having to brake.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 09, 2020, 11:55:45 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 09, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
New York has Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Belfast, Berlin, Bombay, Cairo, Copenhagen, Delhi, Dover, Florence, Geneva, Genoa, Hamburg, Jerusalem, Liverpool, Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Naples, Odessa, Orleans, Paris, Potsdam, Rome, Stockholm, Venice, Vienna, Warsaw
Cuba, German, Greece, Holland, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Mexico, Norway, Panama, Persia, Peru, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Wales
New York might win for world cities.
But Texas has got 'em all in one place.
Earth!
Texas has all three of Michigan's Tri-Cities in Saginaw, Midland and Bay City but not close to each other like in Michigan.
Pennsylvania has municipalities named California, Indiana, Oklahoma, Washington, Wyoming and Jersey Shore, and unincorporated areas named Alaska, Idaho, Oregon and East Texas.
Quote from: texaskdog on July 01, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
When we came back from Alabama a tornado came in and my wife was driving and I asked if she wanted to stop in Tuscaloosa to ride it out and she kept driving
April 27, 2011?
I don't have any towns that I avoid. Either by traffic, or by being speed traps (there are none of the latter in Spain that I'm aware of). However, when you mentioned speed traps, the first place that came to mind was New Rome, Ohio. Also, when a town dissolves, does it need to be demolished altogether? :sombrero:
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2020, 04:50:27 AM
Also, when a town dissolves, does it need to be demolished altogether? :sombrero:
Three towns in Massachusetts literally dissolved to become part of the Quabbin Reservoir. (The fourth is still above water level, at least downtown.)
Quote from: Gnutella on August 12, 2020, 03:13:33 AM
Pennsylvania has municipalities named California, Indiana, Oklahoma, Washington, Wyoming and Jersey Shore, and unincorporated areas named Alaska, Idaho, Oregon and East Texas.
And the State of Wyoming (originally territory) was named after the Wyoming in PA.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2020, 04:50:27 AMAlso, when a town dissolves, does it need to be demolished altogether? :sombrero:
Dissolution or compulsory disincorporation is a legal process and does not, by itself, have any effect on the built fabric. The details can vary from state to state in interesting ways depending on the attitude taken toward laws that are of local or private application.
For example, both Kansas and Oklahoma have had to disincorporate towns that lie within the Tar Creek Superfund site. But where the Oklahoma legislature passed a law that said, in effect, "Picher is no longer a city," the Kansas legislature phrased it as something like "Any town where residents received relocation grants through the department of health and environment is hereby dissolved," a class that presumably (one hopes) includes just the town of Treece, which is across the state line from Picher. Because the whole area is basically a toxic waste site, nobody cares if you torch unoccupied buildings, and in fact I found one burning the last time I visited five years ago.
Quote from: Gnutella on August 12, 2020, 03:46:03 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on July 01, 2020, 04:47:51 PM
When we came back from Alabama a tornado came in and my wife was driving and I asked if she wanted to stop in Tuscaloosa to ride it out and she kept driving
April 27, 2011?
If it were April 27, 2011 or April 15, 2011 (or any of the other days) continuing to drive may have been the best decision she made that day, as April 15th hit the area near Exit 71 and April 27th destroyed McFarland Mall.
I never have had issues with Tuscaloosa. I take 359 to get to 82 west, the lights in downtown are timed well and I only hit maybe 2 red lights on McFarland. It's a good thing the 6 lanes on 20/59 are being extended to 359.
Quote from: 1 on August 12, 2020, 05:01:25 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2020, 04:50:27 AM
Also, when a town dissolves, does it need to be demolished altogether? :sombrero:
Three towns in Massachusetts literally dissolved to become part of the Quabbin Reservoir. (The fourth is still above water level, at least downtown.)
Times Beach, MO (https://www.legendsofamerica.com/mo-timesbeach/) was. It's now a state park. I drove around it several years ago and it was hard to believe it had been a thriving community before I lived in the area.
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 09, 2020, 11:55:45 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 09, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
New York has Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Belfast, Berlin, Bombay, Cairo, Copenhagen, Delhi, Dover, Florence, Geneva, Genoa, Hamburg, Jerusalem, Liverpool, Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Naples, Odessa, Orleans, Paris, Potsdam, Rome, Stockholm, Venice, Vienna, Warsaw
Cuba, German, Greece, Holland, Italy, Jordan, Lebanon, Malta, Mexico, Norway, Panama, Persia, Peru, Poland, Russia, Sweden, Wales
New York might win for world cities.
But Texas has got 'em all in one place.
Of course, they do. Texans can never let another state have bragging rights. :biggrin:
Quote from: I-55 on August 09, 2020, 01:13:01 AM
Any time there's construction in Nashville I go around it (TN-109, I-840). Even if it isn't on my route, if one interstate backs up, the whole system can easily become a log jam (I'm always there at rush hour it seems).
Heading southbound through that part of the country on our way to Florida in late February (our timing would have put us in Nashville at peak rush hour on a Friday), Google Maps routed my dad and I on this route around Nashville:
Exit I-65 at Exit 53 in KY -> KY 70 (barely) -> KY 90 -> US 68 -> KY 1519 -> Cumberland Pkwy -> KY 90 -> KY 839 (clinched!) -> KY 63 -> KY 163 -> TN 51 -> TN 52 -> TN 111 -> US 27 -> picking up I-24 in downtown 'Nooga
Besides Corona -- mentioned several posts ago -- the one SoCal city that currently deserves avoidance due to it being a traffic nightmare most of the day, is Temecula. It has the dubious distinction of being both an exurb of greater L.A. and/or the Inland Empire and San Diego metro. Peak-hour commutes converge on the city in mid-afternoon and don't let up until at least 8 pm (at least from my experience). It's also something of a traffic generator in itself -- often the I-15/215 "split" north of town is simultaneously packed with inbound commuters southbound and workers heading home to Moreno Valley or Riverside on I-215 northbound in late afternoons -- and that freeway remains 2+2 north through Perris. There are windows of opportunity for free-moving travel for a couple of hours near mid-day (and overnight, of course) -- but it's advised to stay clear of the area from 5 to 9 in the morning and 3 to 8 in the evening -- best bet if you get caught is to get off, find a place to grab a bite, and cool off before making another attempt to get out of town!
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
A single county has three Latin American countries: Peru, Mexico, Chili (not spelled the same) and several US locales: Denver, Miami, Bunker Hill, Brimingham, Erie, Peoria, Santa Fe.
Quote from: cabiness42 on August 12, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
A single county has three Latin American countries: Peru, Mexico, Chili (not spelled the same) and several US locales: Denver, Miami, Bunker Hill, Brimingham, Erie, Peoria, Santa Fe.
And then over in Clay County you have Brazil.
Quote from: cabiness42 on August 12, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on August 09, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Also Indiana seems to have several cities that are larger cities in other states such as Nashville, Columbus, Baltimore (ghost town), Portland, Rochester and others.
A single county has three Latin American countries: Peru, Mexico, Chili (not spelled the same) and several US locales: Denver, Miami, Bunker Hill, Brimingham, Erie, Peoria, Santa Fe.
Of course Miami isn't named after the Florida city but rather the Native American tribe, as is the county itself.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 09, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 09, 2020, 01:56:14 PMBumfuck towns in Oklahoma are actually less threatening than bumfuck towns in any other state. If a town here gets more than a certain percentage of revenue from traffic fines, the city loses the right to issue any traffic tickets (the county and OHP step in). This has caused at least one bumfuck town to dissolve because they went over the percentage, then suddenly they had no money coming in to pay government officials.
There are other states that have speedtrap laws providing for compulsory disincorporation of small towns that get too large a share of their revenue from traffic fines. Missouri's statute is informally called the "Macks Creek law" after a small town on US 54 just west of Camdenton that is now an unincorporated CDP as a result of it.
A town in my county (St George) had residents vote overwhelmingly in favor of disincorporation in 2011. The police had long been shady (garnering around 30% of their revenue from traffic citations, abuse and harrassment were also cited), and the mayor got mixed up with pot and child porn.
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2020, 04:50:27 AM
I don't have any towns that I avoid. Either by traffic, or by being speed traps (there are none of the latter in Spain that I'm aware of). However, when you mentioned speed traps, the first place that came to mind was New Rome, Ohio. Also, when a town dissolves, does it need to be demolished altogether? :sombrero:
Not exactly demolished, but the village of Dutchtown MO was disincorporated after constant flooding and is now nearly a ghost town.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 10, 2020, 12:06:22 AM
I understand, the fear factor is different when you're up close, but cmon Camden isn't that bad.
There are blocks in N philly that will make Camden look like ardmore, PA.
Any chance some of those areas might be along the SEPTA Route 10 Trolley?
http://www.septa.org/schedules/trolley/pdf/010.pdf