Towns you avoid?

[STLmapboy]

This said, I think East St. Louis is less ill-favored than the now-tiny burg of Venice, Illinois, which I passed through on SR 3 every time I used it to connect to my motel near the I-270 interchange.  Venice is among several former factory towns on the Illinois side of the St. Louis metro area that are now essentially Love Canal-like toxic waste dumps, owing in part to it being formerly legal in Illinois for companies to charter their own towns and thus evade independent public-health oversight.

I know some Missourians (including a close friend's dad) who go to Illinois for the strip clubs. Hollowed-out riverside 'burbs like Venice, Brooklyn, and Madison are ideal for this kind of thing; Brooklyn has a rather large cluster. Marijuana retailers in places like Sauget also see business from St Louis.

[hbelkins]

Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.

My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.

[J N Winkler]

I know some Missourians (including a close friend's dad) who go to Illinois for the strip clubs. Hollowed-out riverside 'burbs like Venice, Brooklyn, and Madison are ideal for this kind of thing; Brooklyn has a rather large cluster. Marijuana retailers in places like Sauget also see business from St Louis.

Yup--I remember driving past the Pleasure Palace (apparently an adult bookstore, not necesarily a strip club) on my runs between downtown East St. Louis and I-270.  I always crawled past at a numbingly slow pace because Brooklyn has long had a reputation as a speed trap, and I was not interested in finding out whether that was still current.

[Rothman]

Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.

My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.

Wonder what happened.

I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips.  If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.

[Tonytone]

Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.

My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.

Wonder what happened.

I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips.  If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.

+1


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[Tonytone]

That sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.

It was a well-lit location with potential witnesses nearby, so I was more concerned about the nuisance value than any threat to my safety.  A person who is trying to scam you for money is probably not going to mug you, though it certainly does make sense to "stay in Condition Yellow to stay out of Condition Red" (as dozens of self-defense how-to books preach).

Retreating across the river to St. Louis was not a viable option.  When I got lost at the beginning, the freeway was not in sight.  When I stopped at the gas station, it was right in front of me, but there was no on-ramp nearby, and I actually suspect the nearest one that would have taken me to St. Louis was at SR 3, the route I was trying to find.

Being in the middle of downtown East Saint Louis isn't bad.  But, if you get off the beaten path, you find yourself surrounded by more sketchy folk.  For example, when I had to make a deliver near here, I wasn't sure I should even get out of the truck based on the hairy eyeballs I was getting from everyone along the street.  Then I realized that a big truck with a company name on it, and a guy getting out of said truck with boxes in hand, is a different situation than Joe Schmoe getting out of his car.

Once a neighborhood falls in on itself by depopulating, so that patches of urban prairie start appearing while occupied structures fall into visible dilapidation, four-way stops (as shown in your StreetView extract) start appearing at every street intersection, not always as replacements for signals that are decommissioned due to lack of traffic.  This is true not just in East St. Louis but also in, e.g., the Fountain neighborhood of St. Louis, which is just west of the oak/hickory woodland that has replaced the long-demolished Pruitt-Igoe housing project.

I try to stay out of these thickets of four-way stops for multiple reasons--they drive up wear and tear on brakes and suspension, they make it impossible to keep moving, and they expose me to hassle from law enforcement for not drawing to a full and complete stop at each and every intersection.

It's interesting that if these neighborhoods are built up in the sense of homes, commercial properties & then after a while skyscrapers, the use of public transportation & other public uses are increased.

More bus stops will be added, traffic lights will be installed, roads will be widened as well as sidewalks & adding bike lanes & etc.

If a city were to properly grow most row homes would soon turn into businesses on the bottom with hones on top soon following skyscrapers & other city essentials.


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[Flint1979]

The worst I've seen on any road trip I've been on was in Chicago. This was in 2001 and I was in the Twin Cities. On the way home I wanted to check out the Brewers new stadium they were playing the Braves and I had an old Braves hat I wore. This was on my way back to Michigan so after the game I continued on towards Chicago and I-94 was a traffic nightmare right away coming out of Milwaukee so I decided to start using side streets and roads to bypass I-94 (this was before GPS systems were popular) so I started out following the lake shore and stayed as close to the lake shore as I could it took a long time to get to Chicago and it was starting to get late. I followed Sheridan Road most of the way and then hooked up with Lake Shore Drive in Chicago and easily went through town. Well the South Shore neighborhood isn't all that great and Lake Shore Drive dumps off into that. I pull up to a traffic light and there's a guy laying in the middle of the intersection with a bunch of people standing around. It was Chicago and on the South Side and then all of the sudden this guy pops back up and then collapses. I'm thinking where in the hell am I at? Then I got through that area and about a minute or two later I saw a sign that read the following: "I-94 Detroit" I thought to myself I've never been so happy to see a sign that says Detroit on it in my life.

[D-Dey65]

Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.


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I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.

[Bruce]

As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.

[Roadrunner75]

Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.


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I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.

Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jeffandnicole]

Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.


iPhone

I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.

Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hahahaha.

But to D-Deys remark: I think people forget how close everything is around here. It's tough going to nearly anyplace else in the US to find cities so close to each other.  As a result, there's no need for a transportation center in Chester when there's already one 10-15 minutes away in Philly.

[Tonytone]

Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.


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I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.

Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Hahahaha.

But to D-Deys remark: I think people forget how close everything is around here. It's tough going to nearly anyplace else in the US to find cities so close to each other.  As a result, there's no need for a transportation center in Chester when there's already one 10-15 minutes away in Philly.

How our government & the people let Chester fall into disrepair because of the flight of factory & manufacturing jobs is very confusing & sad.

We have areas like this all over the US & its crazy. Chester could be a very nice area between Philly & Wilmington. Instead, it is a younger cousin we dont want to talk to.


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[thspfc]

Fort Worth.

Because of common traffic jams on I-35W, I now go to Mexico by way of a completely different route south of OKC, crossing the border at Del Rio instead of Laredo.  I haven't driven through Fort Worth since 2014.

Funny part is, it's only the third or fourth worst traffic city in its metro area.

[skluth]

The real issue with East. St. Louis, I think, is that I-55/I-64/I-70 just east of the Mississippi River is a cat's cradle with confusing and overloaded signing.  It becomes easy to navigate once you memorize the lane and ramp layouts, but it takes time to do so, and off the freeway it can be challenging to find a place where you can pull over and study a map undisturbed.  At one point I got lost after dark trying to make a connection to SR 3 northbound (I was staying at a motel just off I-270/SR 3 near the Chain of Rocks Bridge), and pulled into a gas station on Collinsville Avenue.  I had people approaching me, presumably to try scams.

That sounds scary. Honestly if I was ever in that situation I'd just find a way to get across the river to downtown St. Louis where the crime isn't as bad, and try to figure it out from there.

I lived in the STL area for over 25 years. I never found ESL half as bad as many parts of North STL. Anywhere along a line from the west end of the Stan Span within six blocks of St Louis Av going west to the city limits has a several areas as bad or worse than anything you'd find in ESL. Some of the inner suburbs are pretty bad too; someone already mentioned Venice IL and you could add Pine Lawn, Wellston, Kinloch, and a couple of the Vinita fiefdoms in MO along with Brooklyn, Washington Park, Alorton, Centerville, and Fairmont City in IL. But honestly, the worst areas tend to move around as police play whack-a-mole with the gangs and drug dealers. I lived in Shaw when I first moved to STL and McRee just east of Vandeventor was Crack Central. (It's now somewhat revitalized/gentrified depending on your POV) After my apartment was robbed, my car broken into, and my locked bike stolen from the basement through a smashed window (all within a year), I moved near Bevo Mill just before the Bosnians moved in and revitalized the neighborhood.

For those not familiar with the city, Delmar is referred to as the Delmar Divide. This unofficial barrier dates back to the days of Jim Crow and redlining, and about 90% of the city's population north of Delmar is black. The city is still heavily segregated. Most, but not all the bad areas, are north of Delmar. Despite all this, the only towns I ever avoided were Pine Lawn which is pretty easily to avoid and St George before the village was disincorporated because of its notorious speed trap.

[D-Dey65]

How our government & the people let Chester fall into disrepair because of the flight of factory & manufacturing jobs is very confusing & sad.

We have areas like this all over the US & its crazy. Chester could be a very nice area between Philly & Wilmington. Instead, it is a younger cousin we dont want to talk to.


iPhone

I've seen cities all over the Carolinas and Virginia, and other parts of the southeast that had factories shutting down bringing them into decline as far back as when I started riding Greyhound up and down the east coast in 1999. Even they never got as bad as Chester. One of the other things that bums me out is that I don't remember the make and model of the pimpmobile I saw there.

[hbelkins]

Not a town and not somewhere where I might actively avoid, but Baltimore gave me a bad vibe the last time it was there. It was during the 2015 protests though.

My wife had a bad experience in Baltimore around 10 years ago. It really unnerved her.

Wonder what happened.

I haven't had any negative experiences driving through "bad neighborhoods" on my road trips.  If anything, I see more evidence of people's fears getting the best of them rather than outright attacks.

I think she was trying to find some Edgar Allen Poe-related site, and was taking pictures of various buildings and sites as she was driving along. Someone threatened her and told her she didn't need to be taking any pictures.

[kphoger]

As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.

Examples?

[skluth]

As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.

Examples?

This park

[kphoger]

As a non-white person, there's a lot of towns that are in no-go zones.

Examples?

This park

If the races had been reversed, I'm not sure that incident would make me avoid the park.

I've come within an inch of being mugged by a group of young black men on a Pace bus transfer platform in the south suburbs of Chicago.  (Fortunately, just in the nick of time, my bus arrived, they followed me onto the bus, I explained what was happening to the driver, and she kicked them off.)  But that experience wouldn't make me avoid the town or Markham, nor even avoid transferring buses at the same location, in the future.

[rarnold]

If you are talking about speed traps, all the small towns along US 54 in southern Kansas from Wichita west are good places to avoid, Clark County in particular. The highway is only in Clark County for 10 miles, but they really hit it hard. Minneola is the only town on 54 in the county, but when the speed limit is 30, they mean 30.

Runners-up - Meade, Greensburg, Liberal

[dvferyance]

I'd have to name Lafayette, Indiana as a place that I try to avoid.  First off, for a small city, the traffic is just awful. Every road in the area is perpetually under construction and being Indiana there is absolutely no provision to accommodate traffic flow because they don't care.  This includes I-65, which also has low construction speed limits and cops hiding behind every tree. Not to mention that, for a college town, it's really plain and dumpy.  Nothing to see and nothing is nice there (aside from Purdue itself - in West Lafayette).  Quite trashy, actually.

Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid Indiana overall, though I can't always do so.  It's a boring state (even the "scenic" parts are maybe like a suburb of Baltimore) and at least half of it's interstate system has constantly been torn up since at least 1997. Always happy to reach whatever border there is to leave it.

Since when is Baltimore in Indiana?

[hotdogPi]

I'd have to name Lafayette, Indiana as a place that I try to avoid.  First off, for a small city, the traffic is just awful. Every road in the area is perpetually under construction and being Indiana there is absolutely no provision to accommodate traffic flow because they don't care.  This includes I-65, which also has low construction speed limits and cops hiding behind every tree. Not to mention that, for a college town, it's really plain and dumpy.  Nothing to see and nothing is nice there (aside from Purdue itself - in West Lafayette).  Quite trashy, actually.

Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid Indiana overall, though I can't always do so.  It's a boring state (even the "scenic" parts are maybe like a suburb of Baltimore) and at least half of it's interstate system has constantly been torn up since at least 1997. Always happy to reach whatever border there is to leave it.

Since when is Baltimore in Indiana?

Not what he was referring to, but:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore,_Indiana

[Flint1979]

Baltimore, Indiana is a ghost town. It actually has suburbs?

[mrose]

Rosendale WI - notorious speed trap

Amazing I've only seen this in the thread once.

[Tonytone]

Sheesh you guys must close your eyes when I-95 passes through Chester.


iPhone

I didn't. I actually went there 10 years ago, so I could get some pictures of the old Pennsylvania Railroad station that SEPTA tried to glorify as the "Chester Transportation Center." I expected some moderate intermodal hub between Wilmington and Philly that benefits the city. Not seeing that was the smallest disappointment. Picture Colonial Williamsburg surrounded by drug dealers, pimps, hookers, and homeless junkies shooting up in the street. That's Chester.

Always seemed like a vibrant, well kept part of the city to me...
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8484772,-75.3610675,3a,75y,17.18h,101.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjQRZQAj8Mlfxsy2IZoSQ_A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Chester, PA where light poles start to rust.


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