Although most states use masts for newer installations, there are a few holdouts. For example, Indiana still puts up span wires in most places (mast arms are usually only found within city cores, like Carmel and Indy). Take this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4291219,-87.3328395,3a,31.3y,336.13h,96.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2UIUDZwymyEEmT-j5lvrtA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) recent install on the 641 Terre Haute bypass. Other states, like NC, also put up wires in most newer installs, as seen here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1388032,-78.9052887,3a,75y,321.01h,88.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCRIddCN05LNi7yYsN2otHg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/) and here (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1834853,-80.7532076,3a,75y,296.58h,88.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stZFy_WbyjlZR7zgSIMB68w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192/).
Any other states still putting up span wires?
West Virginia still uses span wires for installations outside of downtown areas.
Quote from: Bitmapped on June 30, 2020, 10:59:52 PM
West Virginia still uses span wires for installations outside of downtown areas.
Like this from 2016? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6523877,-79.913452,3a,75y,85.96h,95.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skH-Uqk5G5IrMHXb-MekVqw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Pretty sure Kentucky still is
In Paducah, the Hinkleville Rd/US 60 Interchange with I-24 was recently rebuilt by KYTC as a DDI. Pretty sure the new signals are still Span Wire
*Edit* No the new DDI signals are Mast Arm. I stand corrected
I thought most states in the Eastern Time Zone were, besides maybe some New England states.
Maryland put one up at the recently-opened exit 12 on I-270 (discussed previously in the Maryland thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24933.1825)) - it appears this was a one-off situation where a mast may not have been as practical. Otherwise masts are definitely the norm on new signals here.
My brother-in-law, who is a fireman, said span wire is common in his area of Florida (he lives in Pembroke Pines) because it does less damage if it is ripped loose during a hurricane and because it gives the authorities the option of taking it down in advance of a storm if they deem it necessary to do so. There are plenty of intersections with mast arms, though, so I don't know how they determine which to install at a given place.
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 30, 2020, 11:52:36 PM
Pretty sure Kentucky still is
In Paducah, the Hinkleville Rd/US 60 Interchange with I-24 was recently rebuilt by KYTC as a DDI. Pretty sure the new signals are still Span Wire
*Edit* No the new DDI signals are Mast Arm. I stand corrected
That's pretty much an exception. The vast majority of new Kentucky installations, even rebuilds of existing span-wire signals, use span wire.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 30, 2020, 11:52:36 PM
Pretty sure Kentucky still is
In Paducah, the Hinkleville Rd/US 60 Interchange with I-24 was recently rebuilt by KYTC as a DDI. Pretty sure the new signals are still Span Wire
*Edit* No the new DDI signals are Mast Arm. I stand corrected
That's pretty much an exception. The vast majority of new Kentucky installations, even rebuilds of existing span-wire signals, use span wire.
All the signals in that Paducah Mall area by that interchange down US 60 are span wire. The old Diamond Interchange signals were span-wire also. When I was down there last I thought the DDI signals also were, but GSV has new enough footage to see the new mast arm signals at the new DDI
NY still installs span wire, though mast arms are becoming more common
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on July 01, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
NY still installs span wire, though mast arms are becoming more common
New span wire installs have been box span from what I've been seeing.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2020, 12:00:43 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on June 30, 2020, 11:52:36 PM
Pretty sure Kentucky still is
In Paducah, the Hinkleville Rd/US 60 Interchange with I-24 was recently rebuilt by KYTC as a DDI. Pretty sure the new signals are still Span Wire
*Edit* No the new DDI signals are Mast Arm. I stand corrected
That's pretty much an exception. The vast majority of new Kentucky installations, even rebuilds of existing span-wire signals, use span wire.
Can confirm. KYTC exclusively installs span wires except for streetscape projects, unique intersections, or projects with local (or outside) funding.
Danville Main Street at Fourth Street recently received wood poles and span wire after existing mast arm was hit (one side) and decommissioned (other side). Although city officials are working on streetscape funding to replace all Main Street signals with new mast arms.
Whilst several states are moving away from span wires, over here in West Yorkshire the Urban Traffic Control department has decided to move away from mast arms to a span-wire type installation!
https://goo.gl/maps/62EEB7qLbcEKbhmH8
Two more have been installed on a road project I was involved in initial concept design of, but not detail so I didn't realise they'd be used:
https://goo.gl/maps/3WGx63hFtyjgaEz3A (partially installed)
Quote from: steviep24 on July 01, 2020, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: RestrictOnTheHanger on July 01, 2020, 03:35:23 PM
NY still installs span wire, though mast arms are becoming more common
New span wire installs have been box span from what I've been seeing.
R10 (Nassau and Suffolk) dont use box spans, but I've seen them elsewhere in the state.
Also the mast arms in R10 tend to be either one big arm spanning the intersection or similar to those Nassau uses. Not one pole per side.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on July 01, 2020, 09:26:34 AM
I thought most states in the Eastern Time Zone were, besides maybe some New England states.
Virginia mostly uses mast arm vs. span wire.
North Carolina is largely a mix of both, with span wire especially common in the northeastern part of the state.
Quote from: BrynM65 on July 02, 2020, 06:18:56 AM
Whilst several states are moving away from span wires, over here in West Yorkshire the Urban Traffic Control department has decided to move away from mast arms to a span-wire type installation!
https://goo.gl/maps/62EEB7qLbcEKbhmH8
Two more have been installed on a road project I was involved in initial concept design of, but not detail so I didn't realise they'd be used:
https://goo.gl/maps/3WGx63hFtyjgaEz3A (partially installed)
Britain's evolving, just backwards.
MA doesn't install wired signals anymore
iPhone
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 02, 2020, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: BrynM65 on July 02, 2020, 06:18:56 AM
Whilst several states are moving away from span wires, over here in West Yorkshire the Urban Traffic Control department has decided to move away from mast arms to a span-wire type installation!
https://goo.gl/maps/62EEB7qLbcEKbhmH8
Two more have been installed on a road project I was involved in initial concept design of, but not detail so I didn't realise they'd be used:
https://goo.gl/maps/3WGx63hFtyjgaEz3A (partially installed)
Britain's evolving, just backwards.
I'm not sure if it's a step up from our "totem poles":
https://goo.gl/maps/1Cg4anQRnhYxSXZi6
Quote from: BrynM65 on July 02, 2020, 02:09:31 PM
Quote from: STLmapboy on July 02, 2020, 12:34:04 PM
Quote from: BrynM65 on July 02, 2020, 06:18:56 AM
Whilst several states are moving away from span wires, over here in West Yorkshire the Urban Traffic Control department has decided to move away from mast arms to a span-wire type installation!
https://goo.gl/maps/62EEB7qLbcEKbhmH8
Two more have been installed on a road project I was involved in initial concept design of, but not detail so I didn't realise they'd be used:
https://goo.gl/maps/3WGx63hFtyjgaEz3A (partially installed)
Britain's evolving, just backwards.
I'm not sure if it's a step up from our "totem poles":
https://goo.gl/maps/1Cg4anQRnhYxSXZi6
Well at least it's redundancy.
While CT's started converting some span wires to masts, there's still many installations being done with span wire.
While Washington has mostly installed mast-arm signals for a while now, Seattle is still installing brand new span wire signals (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6103937,-122.3168081,3a,75y,78.59h,98.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seqS1VDsjClZt3AZjItQxNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en).
Quote from: jay8g on July 05, 2020, 03:42:09 AM
While Washington has mostly installed mast-arm signals for a while now, Seattle is still installing brand new span wire signals (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6103937,-122.3168081,3a,75y,78.59h,98.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seqS1VDsjClZt3AZjItQxNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en).
I've seen a couple of those around. It would be nice if Seattle and surrounding communities would convince Comcast, Wave, Ziply, and Century Link to do something about their wires interfering with traffic control. There are a few intersections on 99 where in certain spots, you won'y be able to see one phase of one signal, and your example it awfully close.
I don't know what is the statewide trend in Michigan, but my home of Oakland County has been replacing many signal installations each year and the new ones are a mix of mast arms and box span wires. I don't see a predominance of one over the other.
Quote from: wanderer2575 on July 05, 2020, 06:04:54 PM
I don't know what is the statewide trend in Michigan, but my home of Oakland County has been replacing many signal installations each year and the new ones are a mix of mast arms and box span wires. I don't see a predominance of one over the other.
I think it varies in Michigan. Most of the time it seems they use span wire though but then I've seen some that don't. In Saginaw I can't think of one that isn't span wire.
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 05, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
I've seen a couple of those around. It would be nice if Seattle and surrounding communities would convince Comcast, Wave, Ziply, and Century Link to do something about their wires interfering with traffic control. There are a few intersections on 99 where in certain spots, you won'y be able to see one phase of one signal, and your example it awfully close.
Yes, this is definitely a problem around here! This is the worst example I can think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6815556,-122.3173971,3a,75y,279.59h,98.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDBpj6Pq2ATOw-chzXAHOiw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en), and I think it looks even worse in person -- notice how the communications wires have taken off multiple visors.
Quote from: jay8g on July 06, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 05, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
I've seen a couple of those around. It would be nice if Seattle and surrounding communities would convince Comcast, Wave, Ziply, and Century Link to do something about their wires interfering with traffic control. There are a few intersections on 99 where in certain spots, you won'y be able to see one phase of one signal, and your example it awfully close.
Yes, this is definitely a problem around here! This is the worst example I can think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6815556,-122.3173971,3a,75y,279.59h,98.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDBpj6Pq2ATOw-chzXAHOiw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en), and I think it looks even worse in person -- notice how the communications wires have taken off multiple visors.
Yeah (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6816841,-122.3174458,3a,20.6y,215.35h,99.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snvEOe-BYFqGQMKk5aNE17g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en/). Who thought that was a good idea? The thing isn't even that old (2010 or so).
DOT can pay the Telecom the engineering and construction fees to Underground those lines. But otherwise, I am fairly certain the aerial lines are in the approved aerial right-of-way
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 06, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
DOT can pay the Telecom the engineering and construction fees to Underground those lines. But otherwise, I am fairly certain the aerial lines are in the approved aerial right-of-way
Well, Seattle City Light is the owner of the poles, and the agency in charge is largely SDOT. So, to solve the problem, City Light replaces poles with taller versions, and requires other utilities to raise their equipment to a new minimum height in order to maintain their lease on the poles.
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 06, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 06, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
DOT can pay the Telecom the engineering and construction fees to Underground those lines. But otherwise, I am fairly certain the aerial lines are in the approved aerial right-of-way
Well, Seattle City Light is the owner of the poles, and the agency in charge is largely SDOT. So, to solve the problem, City Light replaces poles with taller versions, and requires other utilities to raise their equipment to a new minimum height in order to maintain their lease on the poles.
That is another solution, yes. But again, will need funded by the DOT. As long as the existing lines are at a legal height and in the aerial ROW, changes can and will be billed, if needed/ordered
There has to also be a clearance between Electric and Telecom on the poles, assuming the poles are Joint-Use. Multiple things at play when dealing with Telecom Outside Plant wiring that must be considered
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 06, 2020, 02:55:20 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 06, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on July 06, 2020, 01:14:11 PM
DOT can pay the Telecom the engineering and construction fees to Underground those lines. But otherwise, I am fairly certain the aerial lines are in the approved aerial right-of-way
Well, Seattle City Light is the owner of the poles, and the agency in charge is largely SDOT. So, to solve the problem, City Light replaces poles with taller versions, and requires other utilities to raise their equipment to a new minimum height in order to maintain their lease on the poles.
That is another solution, yes. But again, will need funded by the DOT. As long as the existing lines are at a legal height and in the aerial ROW, changes can and will be billed, if needed/ordered
There has to also be a clearance between Electric and Telecom on the poles, assuming the poles are Joint-Use. Multiple things at play when dealing with Telecom Outside Plant wiring that must be considered
At that specific location, I'm not seeing telecom lines on any but the crossarm poles, to which the western strand (the one in question) is not attached.
Quote from: jay8g on July 06, 2020, 12:24:44 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 05, 2020, 05:53:27 PM
I've seen a couple of those around. It would be nice if Seattle and surrounding communities would convince Comcast, Wave, Ziply, and Century Link to do something about their wires interfering with traffic control. There are a few intersections on 99 where in certain spots, you won'y be able to see one phase of one signal, and your example it awfully close.
Yes, this is definitely a problem around here! This is the worst example I can think of (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6815556,-122.3173971,3a,75y,279.59h,98.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDBpj6Pq2ATOw-chzXAHOiw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en), and I think it looks even worse in person -- notice how the communications wires have taken off multiple visors.
Which were installed first? Seeing the reflective yellow backplates says to me that the other wiring was there first. Transportation departments tend to be the offenders in this respect.