The one in CT is the Red Sox/Yankees fan divide, which some refer to tongue-in-cheek as the Munson-Nixon line. Truth is, there is no real true line, just more of a grey zone where it is pretty much 50/50. The Yankees control Fairfield County while the Red Sox control Windham County. The land between the two rivers (the Housatonic and the Connecticut) tends to be the grey zone, where families and neighborhoods are split. The New Haven area and the Naugatuck Valley are mostly Yankees, while areas north of Hartford lean Red Sox.
Once you get east of the Connecticut River, Red Sox fandom tends to kick in. As for Mets fans: they're interspersed, but tend to die out as you get farther from Citi Field; however, there's a significant enough fan base to warrant local coverage. But the interesting thing: there is absolutely no correlation in the state between which baseball team you root for and which football team you root for. I know many Sox fans who are Giants fans and Yankees fans who are Pats fans (Jets fans pretty much don't exist north of New Haven, and it irks me that our local affiliates go out of their way sometimes to air Jets games when there really is no fan base; I actually know more Steelers fans in CT than Jets fans).
As for the soda/pop divide in the northeast, I would say it falls between Syracuse and Rochester, then follows the I-99 corridor.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
Yankees fans who are Pats fans
Gross. I hope those fans switch to the Red Sox now, due to their more recent success (And I hope the Yankees win a World Series soon, 12 seasons is too much to go without a title).
The Reds/Bengals vs Indians/Browns line approximates I-70 in Ohio. Except, the Columbus Metro Area. So many of the people who live in Columbus are Ohio State Grads who stayed, who either grew up in Cincinnati or Cleveland, that Columbus is very murky in terms of where the divide lies.
In Illinois, a big one is the Cubs-Cardinals divide, which is a bit further north than one might think. It runs somewhere between Dwight and Pontiac, cutting east-southeast toward Indiana and westward toward Iowa from there.
The divide I immediately thought of is the sports markets of Houston and Dallas sports teams. The line basically runs from the Toledo Bend Reservoir to Lufkin, to College Station, then down south to Victoria and Corpus Christi. The RGV is no man's land. Essentially Dallas gets a much larger share of the sports market in Texas than Houston does.
As for the soda debate, I hear a lot of "coke"(notice it's not a proper noun) here in the Houston area and elsewhere in the South. I'm not sure where that line lies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendoza_Line
The Mendoza Line is an expression in baseball deriving from the name of shortstop Mario Mendoza, whose poor batting average is taken to define the threshold of incompetent hitting. The cutoff point is most often said to be .200[1] (Mendoza's career average was slightly better than that, at .215)[2] and, when a position player's batting average falls below that level, the player is said to be "below the Mendoza Line". This is often thought of as the offensive threshold below which a player's presence on a Major League Baseball team cannot be justified, regardless of his defensive abilities. The term does not apply to pitchers, who are not expected to be effective hitters.
The term has come to be used in other contexts when one is so incompetent in one key skill that other skills cannot compensate for that deficiency.
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
In Illinois, a big one is the Cubs-Cardinals divide, which is a bit further north than one might think. It runs somewhere between Dwight and Pontiac, cutting east-southeast toward Indiana and westward toward Iowa from there.
For what it's worth, this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html) shows the Cubs-Cardinals border as lying between Bloomington and Springfield.
(https://i.imgur.com/9D49m4g.png)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
In Illinois, a big one is the Cubs-Cardinals divide, which is a bit further north than one might think. It runs somewhere between Dwight and Pontiac, cutting east-southeast toward Indiana and westward toward Iowa from there.
For what it's worth, this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html) shows the Cubs-Cardinals border as lying between Bloomington and Springfield.
[img snipped]
That map also shows almost perfectly the line between Dallas teams and Houston teams I mentioned.
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 21, 2021, 08:59:35 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 20, 2021, 07:23:34 PM
In Illinois, a big one is the Cubs-Cardinals divide, which is a bit further north than one might think. It runs somewhere between Dwight and Pontiac, cutting east-southeast toward Indiana and westward toward Iowa from there.
For what it's worth, this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html) shows the Cubs-Cardinals border as lying between Bloomington and Springfield.
[img snipped]
That map also shows almost perfectly the line between Dallas teams and Houston teams I mentioned.
Nats fandom really doesn't go very far outside of the DC Metro Area. There are even pockets on the Maryland side that are still Orioles fans.
On the east coast at least, this seems to correlate well with media markets. The parts of Pennsylvania that support the Orioles are in the Baltimore media market. The Yankees/Phillies line in NY seems to follow the line for the NYC/Philly media markets but I'm not sure how exact it is. The parts of MA and VT that support the Yankees are also in the Albany, NY market, ditto for parts of NY State that support the Sox being in the Burlington, VT market.
Cities with under 20% local team:
Charlotte/Raleigh/Norfolk/Richmond
El Paso
Jacksonville
Nashville
New Orleans
Las Vegas
Omaha
Oklahoma City
Salt Lake City
Wisconsin is interesting. In the NFL, it's a hard line. Vikings and Bears fans do not cross the border into Wisconsin in any appreciable numbers. However in baseball, there are quite a few Twins fans in western Wisconsin which on that map correlates roughly with US 63. In hockey where WI has no pro team, the Wild have the western third, the Blackhawks the major cities in southern WI, and Red Wings closer to the UP.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2021, 11:09:11 PM
Wisconsin is interesting. In the NFL, it's a hard line. Vikings and Bears fans do not cross the border into Wisconsin in any appreciable numbers. However in baseball, there are quite a few Twins fans in western Wisconsin which on that map correlates roughly with US 63. In hockey where WI has no pro team, the Wild have the western third, the Blackhawks the major cities in southern WI, and Red Wings closer to the UP.
Kenosha County has a sizable number of Bears fans, possibly even a majority.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2021, 07:20:13 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2021, 11:09:11 PM
Wisconsin is interesting. In the NFL, it's a hard line. Vikings and Bears fans do not cross the border into Wisconsin in any appreciable numbers. However in baseball, there are quite a few Twins fans in western Wisconsin which on that map correlates roughly with US 63. In hockey where WI has no pro team, the Wild have the western third, the Blackhawks the major cities in southern WI, and Red Wings closer to the UP.
Kenosha County has a sizable number of Bears fans, possibly even a majority.
There are also many Bears fans in Southwest Wisconsin near Platteville, mostly as a result of duh Bears holding training camp in Platteville from 1982-2000. Thankfully I'm not one of them and root for the good guys.
Quote from: tchafe1978 on January 22, 2021, 11:11:15 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 22, 2021, 07:20:13 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 21, 2021, 11:09:11 PM
Wisconsin is interesting. In the NFL, it's a hard line. Vikings and Bears fans do not cross the border into Wisconsin in any appreciable numbers. However in baseball, there are quite a few Twins fans in western Wisconsin which on that map correlates roughly with US 63. In hockey where WI has no pro team, the Wild have the western third, the Blackhawks the major cities in southern WI, and Red Wings closer to the UP.
Kenosha County has a sizable number of Bears fans, possibly even a majority.
There are also many Bears fans in Southwest Wisconsin near Platteville, mostly as a result of duh Bears holding training camp in Platteville from 1982-2000. Thankfully I'm not one of them and root for the good guys.
I wouldn't call a franchise that set out to deliberately injure Jim McMahon and ruin his career "good guys" but that's just me.
North Carolina really has no dominant baseball team people support. Western NC (anywhere in the Charlotte media market west) supports the Braves very heavily, but the area is also zoned for the Reds because stations out there used to carry them during the "Big Red Machine" days of the 1970s. Eastern NC (Greensboro east) really has no dominant team. The Orioles/Nationals (MASN) are zoned for most of NC, but they aren't on any cable systems in the populated cities (Greensboro, Raleigh, Wilmington).
South Carolina is almost all Braves. North Carolina is heavy for the Panthers except for when you get east of I-95 and north of I-40, when Washington fans start to become dominant.
Wisconsin is split between the Wild and Blackhawks for hockey, I'd guess it's about 60/40 Blackhawks (if you don't count the Illinois vacationers).
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
They're "no team reaches 25%" places, not Yankees hotspots.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
Wow, what did you eat for breakfast? Whatever team you're a fan of is worse. Refute.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
How defined the line between Cubs and Brewers is shows you how much the two states hate each other.
Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2021, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
Wow, what did you eat for breakfast? Whatever team you're a fan of is worse. Refute.
Obligatory "says the one who has at least 50 posts on here dedicated to hating the Patriots"
Quote from: thspfc on January 25, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Quote from: Alps on January 25, 2021, 11:38:36 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
Wow, what did you eat for breakfast? Whatever team you're a fan of is worse. Refute.
Obligatory "says the one who has at least 50 posts on here dedicated to hating the Patriots"
:D
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 26, 2021, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
Yankees fans who are Pats fans
:banghead:
Met a guy once who was a fan of the Cowboys, Lakers and Yankees. Never wanted to punch anybody more than I wanted to punch him.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Quote from: thspfc on January 25, 2021, 11:41:08 PM
Obligatory "says the one who has at least 50 posts on here dedicated to hating the Patriots"
I'm not a sports fan, but here's what I've figured out about the Yankees and the Patriots: people only hate them because they win. That is to say, Yankee haters and Patriot haters prefer cheering for bad teams. This has even been verbally confirmed to me by multiple such haters.
That's fine. If you like cheering for the underdog and rooting against the always-winning team, I totally understand. If you wish a certain team didn't have such a huge budget that they can hire all the best players, I get it. I really do. But don't hate on people who actually like cheering for teams that play the game well.
/me ducks and runs *
Quote from: frankenroad on January 20, 2021, 04:02:48 PM
The Reds/Bengals vs Indians/Browns line approximates I-70 in Ohio. Except, the Columbus Metro Area. So many of the people who live in Columbus are Ohio State Grads who stayed, who either grew up in Cincinnati or Cleveland, that Columbus is very murky in terms of where the divide lies.
I'd argue the Reds/Indians dividing line is I-70 west to Columbus, then it follows US-23/OH-15 to Findlay. Findlay is near the "triple point" of Reds/Indians/Tigers fandom.
Dayton & Lima (the latter is well north of I-70, of course) are definitely Reds towns. Toledo is a Tigers town. Toledo has been the Tigers AAA affiliate for 33 years running.
I think the Browns/Bengals split is much the same way, except NW Ohio is a Browns town over a Lions town. The MI/OH border is a pretty hard dividing line when it comes to the NFL.
Interestingly, Toledo may be more split over
college football (which is traditionally a more tribal and provincial sport when it comes to fandom) than pro football. There are a lot of University of Michigan fans in Toledo, despite it being south of that MI/OH border.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 12:01:20 PM
I'm not a sports fan, but here's what I've figured out about the Yankees and the Patriots: people only hate them because they win. That is to say, Yankee haters and Patriot haters prefer cheering for bad teams. This has even been verbally confirmed to me by multiple such haters.
That's fine. If you like cheering for the underdog and rooting against the always-winning team, I totally understand. If you wish a certain team didn't have such a huge budget that they can hire all the best players, I get it. I really do. But don't hate on people who actually like cheering for teams that play the game well.
That may be part of it, but in the case of the Patriots, there's many other reasons why people dislike them:
-Division rivalries. Bills, Jets, and Dolphins fans have been tortured by the Patriots for two decades.
-Rivalries with other successful teams, like the Colts and Steelers, who often faced them in the playoffs.
-Cheating and other scandals, notably Deflategate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate).
-They're tiring. People (even those who don't follow sports that much) are sick of seeing them in the championship over and over, when some variety and new storylines would be more fun.
It's no surprise that White Sox fans are centered on Chicago and its suburbs, because the Cubs have overshadowed them for many years.
Quote from: frankenroad on January 20, 2021, 04:02:48 PM
The Reds/Bengals vs Indians/Browns line approximates I-70 in Ohio. Except, the Columbus Metro Area. So many of the people who live in Columbus are Ohio State Grads who stayed, who either grew up in Cincinnati or Cleveland, that Columbus is very murky in terms of where the divide lies.
The same argument can be said for PA, with Harrisburg in the middle of the state, and I-83/US 15 making up the dividing line. Those who live east of Harrisburg root for the Philadelphia teams (Phillies, Eagles, Flyers), while those to the west root for the Pittsburgh ones (Pirates, Steelers, Penguins). (I didn't list the 76ers because Pittsburgh doesn't have an NBA team of its own.) Harrisburg is a tricky one, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a mixed bag of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh natives who root for their respective cities' teams, but what do I know?
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 12:01:20 PM
people only hate them because they win.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
-Division rivalries. Bills, Jets, and Dolphins fans have been tortured by the Patriots for two decades.
-Rivalries with other successful teams, like the Colts and Steelers, who often faced them in the playoffs.
-They're tiring. People (even those who don't follow sports that much) are sick of seeing them in the championship over and over, when some variety and new storylines would be more fun.
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. People hate them because they're good teams. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be (a) torturing your favorite division team all the time, (b) facing your favorite team in the playoffs, or (c) going to the championship over and over.
When your favorite team is challenging them, of course I don't expect you to cheer for the 'enemy' team. But, if your favorite team isn't even in the game, then the only reason you don't cheer for them is that they're good and keep beating your team(s). As I said, I get it. But, if two teams I don't care about are playing, then why shouldn't I enjoy watching a good team play a good game? Why shouldn't I cheer when a really good running play is made by really good players, when the defensive line full of good players keeps the offense at bay? For us non-fans, not every game is 'us versus them'. For us, it can just be an enjoyable sport to watch and enjoy.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
-Cheating and other scandals, notably Deflategate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate).
Yeah, and you can add domestic violence and other outside-the-sport disgraceful acts by the players to that, too.
Think about March Madness where people typically prefer upsets to boring victories.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 25, 2021, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2021, 08:38:33 PM
this map (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html)
That's a cool map, but it pisses me off all these places nowhere near New York where the Yankees come out on top. Gross.
Virginia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nebraska, Utah; what the hell is wrong with those people rooting for the evil empire?
Even Alaska! Are you kidding me? Those 'rugged individualists' are in with the Yankees? Boooooooooo!!!!
Virginia and North Carolina do have lots of Yankee fans, but they also have lots of transplants from Yankee territory.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 12:01:20 PM
people only hate them because they win.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
-Division rivalries. Bills, Jets, and Dolphins fans have been tortured by the Patriots for two decades.
-Rivalries with other successful teams, like the Colts and Steelers, who often faced them in the playoffs.
-They're tiring. People (even those who don't follow sports that much) are sick of seeing them in the championship over and over, when some variety and new storylines would be more fun.
Yeah, that's exactly what I said. People hate them because they're good teams. If they weren't, then they wouldn't be (a) torturing your favorite division team all the time, (b) facing your favorite team in the playoffs, or (c) going to the championship over and over.
People don't hate a team
just because they're good and win a lot. Rivalries are an integral part of sports, and although they may be amplified by success, they still exist by definition even without success. For example, consider the Bills and Jaguars, two of the worst NFL franchises of the 2000's and 2010's. The two teams and fanbases (being two of the smallest in the NFL) strongly dislike each other.
Here's a brief outline from Wikipedia: "the series has featured a Bills loss to the Jaguars in London, an ugly, low-scoring playoff game in 2017, trash talk from former Jaguars players such as Jalen Ramsey, and a brawl between the teams in Buffalo in 2018." That, to me, is a fun rivalry that has nothing to do with success and is, in fact, marked by a
lack of success.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
When your favorite team is challenging them, of course I don't expect you to cheer for the 'enemy' team. But, if your favorite team isn't even in the game, then the only reason you don't cheer for them is that they're good and keep beating your team(s).
Well, because they're a barrier to success no matter who they're playing. Them winning more reduces our chances of making the playoffs, earning a higher seed, and so on.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 01:53:03 PM
But, if two teams I don't care about are playing, then why shouldn't I enjoy watching a good team play a good game? Why shouldn't I cheer when a really good running play is made by really good players, when the defensive line full of good players keeps the offense at bay? For us non-fans, not every game is 'us versus them'. For us, it can just be an enjoyable sport to watch and enjoy.
That is completely fine and normal, since from what I can tell, you truly are a non-fan. However, most people that hate the Patriots (or Yankees, or whoever) aren't non-fans. To them, rooting against a rival is just as integral to their fan experience as rooting for their own team.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 02:57:03 PM
However, most people that hate the Patriots (or Yankees, or whoever) aren't non-fans. To them, rooting against a rival is just as integral to their fan experience as rooting for their own team.
Hmm. Of the ones I know and have personally asked why, they've all said they just don't like the same team winning over and over again. When we're watching a championship game and neither team is one they generally cheer for, they cheer against the Yankees or Patriots for no other reason than that they prefer cheering for the underdog.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 02:57:03 PM
Well, because they're a barrier to success no matter who they're playing. Them winning more reduces our chances of making the playoffs, earning a higher seed, and so on.
Then, by the time the Super Bowl comes around, nobody should have any qualms left about cheering for Tom Brady. But we all know half the country will cheer against his team just because he's on it.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 02:57:03 PM
Rivalries ... still exist by definition even without success. For example, consider the Bills and Jaguars, two of the worst NFL franchises of the 2000's and 2010's. The two teams and fanbases (being two of the smallest in the NFL) strongly dislike each other.
OK, I get that. I suppose I over-extended my assertion with my last post.
Originally, I never said people hate the Bills or the Jaguars only because those teams are good. I restricted that observation to the Yankees and the Patriots. To be sure, I know plenty of people who hate some other team or another because of a different reason. But not the Yankees of the Patriots.
I blame Ted Turner and the former WTBS (Channel 17) from Atlanta for blurring a lot of the traditional boundaries for baseball. This area of Kentucky was solid Reds country until a generation of young viewers started watching Braves games on the "superstation."
That being said, there has always been a hard Reds/Cardinals line in Kentucky, but I'm not exactly sure where it is. Paducah is solidly in Cardinals country; Louisville was Reds territory until the Cards' farm team was based there for awhile. I'm going to posit that the line roughly parallels US 231 or a Bowling Green-Owensboro line.
My dad told me that this part of Kentucky was Browns country until the Bengals began operation.
Somewhere in eastern Ohio there's a Bengals/Browns/Steelers tripoint. I remember driving through a McDonald's in Ontario, Ohio, years ago and being surprised to get a Steelers cup with my drink. I would have expected a Browns cup.
Many would probably be surprised to know that in Jefferson County, there's still a preponderance of UK fans over Louisville fans. I'm not sure if there is a dominant NBA team in Kentucky. The Cincinnati franchise probably was when it existed. I'd say the western part of the state roots for Memphis but it's probably otherwise scattered among teams with former UK players on the roster, depending on which ex-Cat was one's favorite. Lots of people will follow the fortunes of DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, and Anthony Davis especially, although Immanuel Quickley is probably winning lots of fans for the Knicks this year.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 26, 2021, 03:21:09 PM
I blame Ted Turner and the former WTBS (Channel 17) from Atlanta for blurring a lot of the traditional boundaries for baseball. This area of Kentucky was solid Reds country until a generation of young viewers started watching Braves games on the "superstation."
That being said, there has always been a hard Reds/Cardinals line in Kentucky, but I'm not exactly sure where it is. Paducah is solidly in Cardinals country; Louisville was Reds territory until the Cards' farm team was based there for awhile. I'm going to posit that the line roughly parallels US 231 or a Bowling Green-Owensboro line.
My dad told me that this part of Kentucky was Browns country until the Bengals began operation.
Somewhere in eastern Ohio there's a Bengals/Browns/Steelers tripoint. I remember driving through a McDonald's in Ontario, Ohio, years ago and being surprised to get a Steelers cup with my drink. I would have expected a Browns cup.
Many would probably be surprised to know that in Jefferson County, there's still a preponderance of UK fans over Louisville fans. I'm not sure if there is a dominant NBA team in Kentucky. The Cincinnati franchise probably was when it existed. I'd say the western part of the state roots for Memphis but it's probably otherwise scattered among teams with former UK players on the roster, depending on which ex-Cat was one's favorite. Lots of people will follow the fortunes of DeMarcus Cousins, John Wall, and Anthony Davis especially, although Immanuel Quickley is probably winning lots of fans for the Knicks this year.
I spent 11 years living just north of Louisville. In Jefferson County itself, UL fans outnumber UK fans, but the surrounding counties were all a big majority for UK. Reds fans outnumbered Cardinals fans about 10 to 1, Colts fans outnumbered Bengals fans about 2 to 1, and the Pacers are the most popular NBA team but the majority of fans followed their favorite college team's players in the NBA rather than having a single favorite team.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 03:08:43 PM
Hmm. Of the ones I know and have personally asked why, they've all said they just don't like the same team winning over and over again. When we're watching a championship game and neither team is one they generally cheer for, they cheer against the Yankees or Patriots for no other reason than that they prefer cheering for the underdog.
See, to me someone could be a non-fan and simply prefer cheering for the underdog and/or a new storyline.
On the other hand, only a true fan of a rival team would truly hate the Patriots and want them to get destroyed.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 03:08:43 PM
Then, by the time the Super Bowl comes around, nobody should have any qualms left about cheering for Tom Brady. But we all know half the country will cheer against his team just because he's on it.
But he still has that reputation of being barrier to the success of so many other teams and players, even if he's not actively doing so in the Super Bowl. Sure, that's a reputation he has partly because he's so good and wins so much. But at some point, it is nice to see new people get to enjoy success when there's only so much to go around.
And I'm sure there's plenty of people who are rooting against Brady for other reasons, too: they're a Chiefs fan, they want to see a team win back-to-back titles, they want the road team to win against the first home team ever, they think Mahomes is the better player, etc.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 03:44:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 03:08:43 PM
Hmm. Of the ones I know and have personally asked why, they've all said they just don't like the same team winning over and over again. When we're watching a championship game and neither team is one they generally cheer for, they cheer against the Yankees or Patriots for no other reason than that they prefer cheering for the underdog.
See, to me someone could be a non-fan and simply prefer cheering for the underdog and/or a new storyline.
On the other hand, only a true fan of a rival team would truly hate the Patriots and want them to get destroyed.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 03:08:43 PM
Then, by the time the Super Bowl comes around, nobody should have any qualms left about cheering for Tom Brady. But we all know half the country will cheer against his team just because he's on it.
But he still has that reputation of being barrier to the success of so many other teams and players, even if he's not actively doing so in the Super Bowl. Sure, that's a reputation he has partly because he's so good and wins so much. But at some point, it is nice to see new people get to enjoy success when there's only so much to go around.
The thing is, though - it's not Brady's fault no one can beat him. I've seen all the challengers come and go. First it was the Colts, then the Steelers, the Bengals, the Ravens, Chargers, and Broncos. All tried and all went away. Peyton beat NE in three AFC title games, one with Indy and two with Denver. After losing two title games in the early 2000s Manning ended up with a winning playoff record against Brady, but unfortunately his history of odd clunkers against other teams in the playoffs (like 2007 and 2008 against SD, 2010 vs. the Jets, and 2014 against the Colts) diminishes his impact in this regard.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 03:44:33 PM
And I'm sure there's plenty of people who are rooting against Brady for other reasons, too: they're a Chiefs fan, they want to see a team win back-to-back titles, they want the road team to win against the first home team ever, they think Mahomes is the better player, etc.
The friend whose house we go to for the Super Bowl is a big Chiefs fan. We were there when he broke the armrest of his sofa by punching it during a game once. So yeah, he has a very good reason to cheer against the Buccaneers this year. But, back in 2019, he had zero reason to choose one team over the other, yet he rooted against the Patriots anyway simply because they "always win".
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 04:11:39 PM
The friend whose house we go to for the Super Bowl is a big Chiefs fan. We were there when he broke the armrest of his sofa by punching it during a game once. So yeah, he has a very good reason to cheer against the Buccaneers this year. But, back in 2019, he had zero reason to choose one team over the other, yet he rooted against the Patriots anyway simply because they "always win".
Well, considering the Chiefs had just lost to the Patriots in the championship that season, isn't that reason enough to root against them? :biggrin:
This does bring up a somewhat off-topic but interesting question of what you prefer to happen to the team you just lost to. Do you want them to win it all so you can claim to be second-best, having lost only to the best? Or do you want them to get waxed for revenge?
After the divisional round game this year, some Ravens players and even their head coach expressed that they wanted the Bills to go all the way after losing to them. From their perspective, the way it played out, it's not exactly a good look to only score 3 points on a defense that proceeds to give up 38 the next week.
I come down pretty firmly on the other side. I can't help but find a bit of enjoyment at the chaos unfolding in Houston after the brutal overtime playoff loss to them last year. That was about as painful a loss as you'll ever have, but pain leads to growth, and it sure showed this season as the two franchises moved in completely opposite directions from that point onwards.
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
Well, considering the Chiefs had just lost to the Patriots in the championship that season, isn't that reason enough to root against them?
Yeah, remember that broken sofa incident I mentioned? Guess what day that happened...
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
This does bring up a somewhat off-topic but interesting question of what you prefer to happen to the team you just lost to. Do you want them to win it all so you can claim to be second-best, having lost only to the best? Or do you want them to get waxed for revenge?
I want the better team in that game to win. If that rival team plays well, then I hope they win. If they keep making mistakes, or if the other team really shines, then I hope the other team wins.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
The thing is, though - it's not Brady's fault no one can beat him.
It's Belichick's fault! :-P
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 26, 2021, 03:55:08 PM
Peyton beat NE in three AFC title games, one with Indy and two with Denver. After losing two title games in the early 2000s Manning ended up with a winning playoff record against Brady, but unfortunately his history of odd clunkers against other teams in the playoffs (like 2007 and 2008 against SD, 2010 vs. the Jets, and 2014 against the Colts) diminishes his impact in this regard.
Eli Manning and Nick Foles have winning playoff records against Brady, too, but the difference is the sample size. What sets Brady apart is his ability to get
to the championship, thanks to regular season dominance (the great coach and terrible division didn't hurt), allowing them to get the bye most seasons. He's been to 14 championships! To me that's almost more unbelievable than 10 Super Bowls, but both are mind-boggling. It's the equivalent of Mahomes starting the 2039 Super Bowl. Just thinking about that makes my head hurt.
Quote from: kphoger on January 26, 2021, 04:42:32 PM
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
Well, considering the Chiefs had just lost to the Patriots in the championship that season, isn't that reason enough to root against them?
Yeah, remember that broken sofa incident I mentioned? Guess what day that happened...
Ha, I did actually wonder that!
Quote from: webny99 on January 26, 2021, 04:32:30 PM
That was about as painful a loss as you'll ever have, but pain leads to growth ...
... and look at where the Chiefs are now.
Some divides in Michigan:
The Lions/Packers divide is a fairly sharp divide along approximately M-77 in Da Yoop. There are scattered Packers areas in the Lower Peninsula along Lake Michigan (especially since many people in the shoreline counties used to watch Green Bay and Milwaukee TV in the 50s, 60s, and 70s).
The Tigers/Brewers divide is roughly a line from Marinette/Menominee to Iron Mountain to Ontonagon.
Michigan/Michigan State is very interesting. Michigan dominates in the Ann Arbor area, Michigan State dominates in the Lansing area, and the rest of the state is fairly evenly split.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 26, 2021, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
Yankees fans who are Pats fans
:banghead:
Met a guy once who was a fan of the Cowboys, Lakers and Yankees. Never wanted to punch anybody more than I wanted to punch him.
Post of the day
Quote from: ftballfan on January 28, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
The Tigers/Brewers divide is roughly a line from Marinette/Menominee to Iron Mountain to Ontonagon.
so roughly the state line?
Quote from: texaskdog on January 28, 2021, 04:12:16 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on January 28, 2021, 03:58:03 PM
The Tigers/Brewers divide is roughly a line from Marinette/Menominee to Iron Mountain to Ontonagon.
so roughly the state line?
Yes. Marinette/Menominee gets both Fox Sports Detroit and Fox Sports Wisconsin on cable. However, the Ironwood/Hurley area gets only Fox Sports Detroit on cable.
Fun fact: In the superstation era, far northern Wisconsin (Marinette, Hurley, Ashland) used to get WKBD from Detroit on cable instead of WVTV from Milwaukee or WTCN (before 1979)/KMSP (after 1979) from the Twin Cities
- Columbus, Harrisburg, et al. This is a thing in any state capital in a state with distinct loyalities. Certainly in Charleston, where the vast majority follows the Reds/Bengals, albeit the Bengals loyalty is softer, but move ins from northern WV follow the Pittsburgh teams and there are some easterners that have kept their Baltimore/Washington loyality.
- Ted Turner. THE greatest mistake baseball made in my lifetime. From the mid 70s through the turn of the century, it was easier to watch the Braves, or the Cubs, than it was to watch your natural home team. Harmed baseball, and harmed regional teams that depended on more than just a core city, even more. The sad thing is, baseball is repeating almost the same mistake. Baseball uses an idiotic and ridiculous map to determine the UP TO SIX teams that are local to a certain place.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/MLB_Blackout_Areas.png
And, if you stream, you can much more easily and for FAR less money get every team, except your own, with the streaming package.
- All this about the Patriots, Yankees, whatever. Being a fan of a team from a place you have no connection with is not for me. I don't get it.
- NBA. I think the dominant NBA team in Kentucky is the same as it is in West Virginia and about 90% of the surface area of the country. "none". The NBA is followed by little kids, who do not base their loyalty on geography (see above), and urban dwellers. Most rural people have no interest.
Quote from: SP Cook on January 29, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
- All this about the Patriots, Yankees, whatever. Being a fan of a team from a place you have no connection with is not for me. I don't get it.
Me neither. Unless there is some local connection. Lots of UK fans become fans of whichever pro team their favorite players land with. Randall Cobb earned the Packers a lot of fans in the Bluegrass. Benny Snell has done the same for the Steelers. And Tim Couch definitely did for the Browns. Along the lines of that...
Quote- NBA. I think the dominant NBA team in Kentucky is the same as it is in West Virginia and about 90% of the surface area of the country. "none". The NBA is followed by little kids, who do not base their loyalty on geography (see above), and urban dwellers. Most rural people have no interest.
The Kentucky Colonels of the old ABA had a decent statewide fanbase, especially since they played a few home games in Memorial Coliseum in Lexington, and WHAS carried their games. There definitely isn't a big NBA team in Kentucky. As I noted previously, the interest is generally tied to UK alums on NBA rosters.
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Deflategate was a massively overblown story that Goodell just used to get people off the league's backs regarding supposed favoritism of the Patriots.
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:23:32 PM
Deflategate was a massively overblown story that Goodell just used to get people off the league's backs regarding supposed favoritism of the Patriots.
You are a laughable apologist. Goodell mishandled it intentionally and frontloaded the Cheaters' schedule with weak teams to make sure they'd come out okay. Goodell and Kraft ruined the NFL together and it's unwatchable at this point as a result.
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Those are not rivalries, those are teams good at the same time. Rivalries outlast that.
Quote from: Alps on February 01, 2021, 01:40:02 AM
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:23:32 PM
Deflategate was a massively overblown story that Goodell just used to get people off the league's backs regarding supposed favoritism of the Patriots.
You are a laughable apologist. Goodell mishandled it intentionally and frontloaded the Cheaters' schedule with weak teams to make sure they'd come out okay. Goodell and Kraft ruined the NFL together and it's unwatchable at this point as a result.
Ah yes, weak teams, such as:
Cardinals: went 13-3 and made the NFC title game in 2015 (the year before the suspension)
Dolphins: a team the Patriots always struggled with during the dynasty, and they actually lost 20-10 to Miami the last week of the 2015 season
Texans: won their division in 2015
Wow, such an easy schedule, right? :rolleyes:
Quote from: Alps on February 01, 2021, 01:40:27 AM
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Those are not rivalries, those are teams good at the same time. Rivalries outlast that.
I thought rivalries were about two teams and fanbases hating each other? Because that's what those four matchups are. Other notable inter-division rivalries in the league are Vikings/Saints, Packers/Seahawks, and Packers/Cowboys.
Quote from: thspfc on February 01, 2021, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Alps on February 01, 2021, 01:40:27 AM
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Those are not rivalries, those are teams good at the same time. Rivalries outlast that.
I thought rivalries were about two teams and fanbases hating each other? Because that's what those four matchups are. Other notable inter-division rivalries in the league are Vikings/Saints, Packers/Seahawks, and Packers/Cowboys.
What do you call the relationship between teams in a division if not a rivalry? It's literally the dictionary definition of rivalry:
noun: competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.
In the case of the AFC East, even though the Patriots were dominant, it doesn't make it not a rivalry. The teams and fanbases still hate each other. And of course there can be inter-division rivalries, which also tend to outlast the teams being good. I would put Pats-Steelers in that category.
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Sounds like a couple of rivalries involving Tennessee football. Kentucky considers Tennessee to be a huge rival, but because the Vols had the Cats' number for so many years, Tennessee fans didn't give it a second thought. On the other hand, Tennessee considers Alabama to be a hated rival, but the Tide just brushes off the Vols.
Vikings/Saints isn't a rivalry except to a few remaining bitter Vikings fans from 10 years ago. They met in the playoffs twice in three years in 2017 and 2019, but there's no special animosity between them.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 01, 2021, 04:33:06 PM
Vikings/Saints isn't a rivalry except to a few remaining bitter Vikings fans from 10 years ago. They met in the playoffs twice in three years in 2017 and 2019, but there's no special animosity between them.
I'd like to hear what Saints fans have to say about that. Patriots fans of the 2000's and 2010's might not have called the Bills or Jets a major rival either, but the feelings of animosity are always much stronger on the side having less success.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 01, 2021, 04:01:58 PM
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Sounds like a couple of rivalries involving Tennessee football. Kentucky considers Tennessee to be a huge rival, but because the Vols had the Cats' number for so many years, Tennessee fans didn't give it a second thought. On the other hand, Tennessee considers Alabama to be a hated rival, but the Tide just brushes off the Vols.
Exactly. A true rivalry needs both teams to buy in. Ohio State vs. Michigan, Alabama vs. Auburn, Florida vs. Florida State for example.
Quote from: webny99 on February 01, 2021, 12:10:39 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 01, 2021, 11:53:33 AM
Quote from: Alps on February 01, 2021, 01:40:27 AM
Quote from: thspfc on January 31, 2021, 11:21:34 PM
I'm late to this party, but sorry webny99, rivalries are generally at least a little bit competitive. Pats vs. Bills and Jets was not competitive for a good 20 years. That's not a rivalry, that's one team hating the other, and the other not caring. Pats/Colts, Pats/Steelers, Pats/Broncos, and Pats/Ravens were the true rivalries of the Patriots dynasty.
Those are not rivalries, those are teams good at the same time. Rivalries outlast that.
I thought rivalries were about two teams and fanbases hating each other? Because that's what those four matchups are. Other notable inter-division rivalries in the league are Vikings/Saints, Packers/Seahawks, and Packers/Cowboys.
What do you call the relationship between teams in a division if not a rivalry? It's literally the dictionary definition of rivalry:
noun: competition for the same objective or for superiority in the same field.
In the case of the AFC East, even though the Patriots were dominant, it doesn't make it not a rivalry. The teams and fanbases still hate each other. And of course there can be inter-division rivalries, which also tend to outlast the teams being good. I would put Pats-Steelers in that category.
Did you read the whole comment? The Bills and Jets were just teams on the Pats' schedule for 20 years. I don't think any of those Pats players circled those games on the calendar before the season. It's not a rivalry if one team is into it and the other is not interested. Now, Pats/Dolphins might be different. Away at Miami was quite possibly the most difficult game to win for New England during their dynasty, so there's no doubt that they started to focus a little more on that game than others mentally.
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 26, 2021, 10:31:14 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 26, 2021, 09:45:06 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 20, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
Yankees fans who are Pats fans
:banghead:
Met a guy once who was a fan of the Cowboys, Lakers and Yankees. Never wanted to punch anybody more than I wanted to punch him.
Knowing him, he was probably a Duke fan too.
What drives me crazy is the Red Sox/Yankees divide through Central CT. It wavers based on the successes of each team, but there is NO WAY that my town (which is in Hartford County) is 60/40 Yankees (unless the cable company, which refused to add NESN until 2005 but added YES on day one, did the survey).
I grew up going to both Cubs and White Sox games. Call me a heretic.
Quote from: kphoger on February 06, 2021, 10:43:50 AM
I grew up going to both Cubs and White Sox games. Call me a heretic.
I would think it would be worse if you grew up going to both Cubs and
Cardinals games.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 09, 2021, 10:29:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 06, 2021, 10:43:50 AM
I grew up going to both Cubs and White Sox games. Call me a heretic.
I would think it would be worse if you grew up going to both Cubs and Cardinals games.
My parents lived in Saint Louis for a number of years before I was born. They also grew up in Kansas City. So my dad actually cheers for the Royals (even though he was almost done with high school by the time they started playing), Cardinals, Cubs,
and White Sox.
I'm a little iffy on the timing of their moves before I was born, so I'm not sure if they lived in Charleston (IL) before or after they lived in Saint Louis, but I'm certain it was before they lived in the Chicago area. I say that because I don't know what team they cheer for in Charleston, but it wouldn't have mattered to my dad anyway, because he wouldn't have become a Chicago fan yet either way.