Lesser Divides

[kphoger]

We all know about the Continental Divide and other major hydrological divides.  There are also many social divides that have been studied in depth:  some such as racial divides are more obvious, but others such as linguistic tendencies are less obvious and more entertaining to discuss.  For example, it's fun to see where the pop/soda/coke divides run through the country, or where the firefly/lightning bug divide runs.

But what are some less-documented divides you've become aware of during your travels?  I'm especially interested in the lesser divides that run through your state or one you're otherwise familiar with.  I mean, I'm sure there's a line somewhere in New York that divides Bills fans from Giants fans, but have you determined where that divide runs?  Is there an shirt/no shirt under your overalls divide that runs through Missouri?  If so, where is that divide?  Etc.



I'll start.

Illinois

When I lived in southern Illinois, the east-west sweet tea available/unavailable at McDonald's divide ran somewhere between Mount Vernon and Effingham.

There is also a north-south divide in southern Illinois (at least between US-50 and IL-13, which is the area I'm most familiar with).  West of approximately IL-148 or I-57, drivers generally speed, and traffic on 55mph roads goes about 65-70.  East of there, drivers generally don't speed, and even going 62 can mean quite a bit of passing.

Kansas

Unfortunately, I'm not sure exactly where these divides run, but I know they run somewhere generally north-south through Kansas:

– The butter/mayonnaise divide:  Which one do people spread on their sandwich bread?  West of the divide, it's butter.  East of the divide, mayo.

– The tea/lemonade divide:  Which one is served at potluck dinners?  West of the divide, it's iced tea.  East of the divide, lemonade.  There exists a broad region in the middle at which both are served.

– The wave/no wave divide:  On state highways, not just minor county roads, do people generally wave at every driver they pass?  West of the divide, they do.  East of the divide, they don't.

[Max Rockatansky]

For some reason there are a crap load of Navarro River watershed signs on Northern California highways.  The divide is always signed from State Highways for some reason via what appears to be homemade signage.  I passed three of them this past weekend on; CA 1, CA 128, and CA 253. 

[webny99]

But what are some less-documented divides you've become aware of during your travels?  I'm especially interested in the lesser divides that run through your state or one you're otherwise familiar with.

The Tim Hortons/no Tim Hortons divide runs as follows: It starts at Lake Erie, near the PA/OH state line, and follows the 42nd parallel all the way to NY 19. It then follows NY 19 north to Warsaw, then US 20A east to where it joins US 20, then US 20 to Geneva, then NY 14 north to Lake Ontario.

That includes Erie, PA, and it definitely includes Rochester, which has close to two dozen locations. Not Syracuse, though, which I was stunned to discover has only two Tim Horton's locations in the entire metro area (so technically, there are some locations outside the area I outlined, but they're far and few between).

I mean, I'm sure there's a line somewhere in New York that divides Bills fans from Giants fans, but have you determined where that divide runs?

West of I-81: Solid Bills
East of I-81/North of 42nd parallel: Both
South of 42nd parallel: Solid Giants

Poor Jets fans.

[Bruce]

The Cascades form both a hydrological divide and a social divide for both Washington and Oregon.

[NWI_Irish96]

There are exceptions, but I-70 is more or less a divide between Waffle House and no Waffle House.

As for a Bears/Colts divide in Indiana, I would put that as following US 31 from the Michigan line to Rochester, IN 25 to Lafayette, and IN 26 over to the Illinois line, though in reality the Bears/Colts shift is more subtle than any sort of line could really mark.

[jmd41280]

PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?

[webny99]

As for the soda/pop divide in the northeast, I would say it falls between Syracuse and Rochester, then follows the I-99 corridor.

That's fair. I'm firmly in "pop" country.

Until a few years ago, I honestly thought "soda" was an old, outdated term that no one would ever use in contemporary life. To me, it didn't even make sense to use a two-syllable word when there's a one-syllable word that works just as well. I thought "soda" being replaced with "pop" was just something that happened over time, like a linguistic version of a technological advancement like the computer or smartphone.

[CapeCodder]

The Volvo Line.

[kphoger]

Now that this has already devolved into a pop/soda thread...

I once knew a guy who, upon moving from NYC to Chicago, responded to the first person who asked if he wanted a pop with "No thanks, I don't do drugs".

[hotdogPi]

I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

[webny99]

A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

[webny99]

I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

I don't know where the line is, but I do know that it would also extend into New York. I-87 in the North Country has some French signage, and Quebec license plates are very common there in the summer months.

[hotdogPi]

A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

It's also a village in India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asoda

[jemacedo9]

PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?

PA has I think the following, which all might be slightly different:

Sheetz/Wawa - probably on a line just west of Lancaster, just west of Reading, up to Hazleton, and then east and just north of I-80

Eagles/Steelers
Penguins/Flyers
pop/soda

I have to think about where the rest are drawn...

[kphoger]

A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

Exactly.  "Would you like a pop/soda" means "Would you like a can/bottle of pop/soda"?

"Would you like some pop/soda" means I might pour it into a glass for you first.

[GaryV]

A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

Exactly.  "Would you like a pop/soda" means "Would you like a can/bottle of pop/soda"?

"Would you like some pop/soda" means I might pour it into a glass for you first.

And "Would you like pop/soda" (without an article before it) means as opposed to some other beverage.

[webny99]

A part of the pop/soda debate that doesn't get discussed much: why do people use "a" to preface pop or soda?

I never have, and quite frankly think it's a weird thing to do.

"a" refers to a single item, so "a soda" is equivalent to saying "a can of soda" or "a 2 liter bottle of soda" or whatever size. On the other hand, you wouldn't say "My favorite drink is a soda" or "there are free refills on a soda" or anything involving multiple cans or bottles.

I'm referring more to non-can/bottle contexts.

For example, when a waiter at a restaurant says "Can I get you a soda/pop?"
If it was any other drink, like water, juice, or most alcohol, it wouldn't be prefaced with "a".

Beer is another exception that follows the same rules as soda/pop, maybe because it is also often bottled.

[kphoger]

I'm referring more to non-can/bottle contexts.

For example, when a waiter at a restaurant says "Can I get you a soda/pop?"
If it was any other drink, like water, juice, or most alcohol, it wouldn't be prefaced with "a".

Beer is another exception that follows the same rules as soda/pop, maybe because it is also often bottled.

I've definitely heard a waiters ask "Can I get you a water?" or "Can I get you an orange juice?"  In that context, it means "Can I get you a glass of...?"

[CNGL-Leudimin]

The Weißwurstäquator (literally "White Sausage Equator") dividing Germany.

[rawmustard]

In Michigan, you have a divide between northern and southern at approximately the US-10 corridor (or why we have a Welcome Center in Clare). Then you got the whole UP as well, which has a pretty pronounced divide between east and west about a line that runs approximately from Marquette to Menominee.

[briantroutman]

PA residents - Where would you place the Sheetz/Wawa divide?

It's roughly coincident with the US 222 corridor–plus the Poconos–where the two chains' territories overlap. The Lancaster, Reading, and Allentown areas are home to locations of both. As you head north or west, by the time you reach I-81, you're definitely out of Wawa territory.

Coincidentally, there's also a pretty strong correlation between the Sheetz/Wawa overlap and the primary territory of Turkey Hill.

Eagles/Steelers
Penguins/Flyers

Speaking very broadly (in part because I could hardly care less about professional sports), Philadelphia and Pittsburgh allegiances more or less separate along the US 15 corridor.

Growing up in Williamsport, maybe 60% were Phillies and/or Eagles fans (few people seemed to care about basketball or hockey), and 40% followed the Steelers (though I've encountered almost no Pirates fans). Heading west just as far as Jersey Shore, the proportions were basically reversed. And by the time you hit Centre County, Philadelphia's share drops to almost zero.

There's also a notable third column–especially in rural Pennsylvania: People who follow Penn State sports...almost as an "anti-urban"  alternative to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh teams. The Pennsylvania sports map is further complicated by some Baltimore fandom bleeding northward into the York-Harrisburg area and New York fans (especially Yankees baseball) encroaching on the Lehigh Valley/Poconos/Scranton areas

pop/soda

Most pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

[jmd41280]

Most pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me 

[webny99]

Most pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me 

Yeah, same here in Western NY. "Soda" just... isn't a thing.

[jemacedo9]

Most pop/soda maps claim the pop/soda divide runs along the I-99 corridor. And having grown up on the supposed edge of the divide, you'd think I would have heard "pop"  used occasionally. To the contrary: in two decades of extensive travels around central and western  Pennsylvania, I've never once encountered anyone using the term "pop"  seriously. And for comparison–I have encountered "pop"  in the Great Lakes region (Ontario, Ohio, Michigan, Illinois) in far less time having been there. Now that's not to say that no one in western Pennsylvania says "pop" , but I have to conclude that it's a declining phenomenon among older and more isolated residents.

To be honest, I rarely hear anyone in western PA say anything other than "pop". As a resident of that half of our fine Commonwealth, I just can't get myself to ever say "soda". Just doesn't seem right to me 

I went to college at IUP...and "pop" was used there often.  I think the I-99 corridor might be correct.  Harrisburg / Carlisle is definitely soda.  "Pop" never seemed right to me. 

[vdeane]

I've always wondered where the Spanish-French line is in Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. Specifically, how close do you need to be to Quebec for French to become more common than Spanish (the default second most common language in the US)?

I don't know where the line is, but I do know that it would also extend into New York. I-87 in the North Country has some French signage, and Quebec license plates are very common there in the summer months.

Bear in mind that the signage on I-87 is for Canadian travelers... not locals who speak the language (yes, there are still native francophones in New England!).

There's actually French signage on the Northway as far south as Clifton Park.