So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.
Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Arlington, VA
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.
On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.
Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.
St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."
Quote
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Good, so my example still counts, because St. Louis County is separate from the city of St. Louis, which is not in any county.
Oh, also Wyandotte County, Kansas is often just called "Wyandotte." Sometimes "The Dotte," if you're cool enough, I guess.
Out of Michigan's 83 counties I can't think of an example we always say County like Wayne County when we are talking about counties here.
I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.
Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?
My first thought was Westchester and Rockland. Then I saw those were the impetus for the thread. :D
Orange County, CA
I'd argue Napa and Sonoma refer more to the counties than the cities.
Chris
Quote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
Orange County, CA
If I'm not mistaken, I think the OP is referring to situations where the word "county" isn't used. No one just says Orange.
Chris
Quote from: 1 on March 24, 2021, 08:03:35 PM
Arlington, VA
That's an interesting one! While Arlington isn't separately a city, it does act like one (and Census-wise, it is an unincorporated place that is consolidated with a county). I think it's more a peculiarity of this county than of linguistics–are there other counties in Virginia or around DC that also would fit?
Quote from: webny99 on March 24, 2021, 09:31:19 PM
On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.
Yes, I had that thought too. You'll also hear it to a lesser extent with Dutchess, Putnam and maybe Ulster. But, I think that's a local parlance; I'm not sure you'd ever hear Rockland County referred to as "Rockland, NY" for a national audience–even from a newscast originating in New York. Still, the local usage is significant, as it illustrates that the individual towns and villages there are probably less well known, even to neighbors, than the county itself.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 24, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Good, so my example still counts, because St. Louis County is separate from the city of St. Louis, which is not in any county.
It would, I suppose, as long as the reference is to the county as a place distinct and separate from St. Louis city or its metro area. In other words, someone would say "St. Louis, Missouri" and not expect the listener to think of St. Louis city.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 24, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.
Marin might be a candidate. I was sure there must be somewhere in CA, and I've definitely heard "Marin" without "county".
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on March 24, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?
If they have the same name, no. I suppose it would count if, say, somebody referred to Davidson, TN or Marion, IN to refer to the capitals of those states.
Quote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
Orange County, CA
That one I haven't heard. My wife is from there, and we visit regularly–I can't say I've ever heard anyone call it just "Orange". (And they don't do it in NY, either, notwithstanding the practice in neighboring counties.)
I'm thinking the Mid-Atlantic is where we're most likely to find it–places where counties are strong, and suburban towns and villages have relatively little prominence as political entities, but considerable importance as separate regions within a greater metro area.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 24, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.
Similarly, folks in Richmond, Virginia use the term "down in Chesterfield" like a city name to describe most of the county. Back not so long ago, the still unincorporated Chesterfield Court House wasn't much more than the government facilities. There are some placenames still used regularly (Bon Air and Chester come to mind), so the whole county isn't included.
Gwinnett comes to mind.
Quote from: empirestate on March 25, 2021, 02:49:25 AM
Quote from: webny99 on March 24, 2021, 09:31:19 PM
On the other side of the Hudson, Rockland County is sometimes referred to as just "Rockland", at least in my experience.
Yes, I had that thought too. You'll also hear it to a lesser extent with Dutchess, Putnam and maybe Ulster. But, I think that's a local parlance; I'm not sure you'd ever hear Rockland County referred to as "Rockland, NY" for a national audience–even from a newscast originating in New York. Still, the local usage is significant, as it illustrates that the individual towns and villages there are probably less well known, even to neighbors, than the county itself.
...
I'm thinking the Mid-Atlantic is where we're most likely to find it–places where counties are strong, and suburban towns and villages have relatively little prominence as political entities, but considerable importance as separate regions within a greater metro area.
What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.
Your last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.
Ontario County, meanwhile (the closest thing we have to a suburban county here in Rochester), has the opposite problem: "Ontario County" is quite commonly used to refer to the general area it comprises, but the "County" qualifier is extremely necessary given the nearby town, province, and lake with the same name.
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on March 24, 2021, 10:12:04 PM
Are we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?
Based on the OP, I assume not. Slightly different, but only on a technicality.
Quote from: empirestate on March 25, 2021, 02:49:25 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 24, 2021, 10:49:10 PM
Orange County, CA
That one I haven't heard. My wife is from there, and we visit regularly–I can't say I've ever heard anyone call it just "Orange". (And they don't do it in NY, either, notwithstanding the practice in neighboring counties.)
I've only been to LA twice, but I assumed people meant the city of Orange when they just said "Orange" without "County" after it.
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 24, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."
Seriously? That's so wrong...
Happens sometimes in Greater Toronto Area...
Sometimes they just say "Durham" or "York" or "Halton" or "Peel", without the word "Region".
When I was in Jacksonville for the Bears-Jaguars game week 16, I noticed that TIAA Bank Field had huge banners set up behind the benches that read: "DUUUUUUVAL". Is this just a Jaguars thing, or do people around the area often refer to the county as just "Duval"?
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 24, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."
Seriously? That's so wrong...
Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City. (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 10:27:12 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 24, 2021, 09:43:02 PM
St. Louis County, Missouri is often just called "St. Louis."
Seriously? That's so wrong...
Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City. (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)
Yeah, I was actually thinking of Baltimore when the St. Louis city/county discrepancy was mentioned.
It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).
What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 25, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)
That's really no different than "the Panhandle".
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:48:07 AM
When I was in Jacksonville for the Bears-Jaguars game week 16, I noticed that TIAA Bank Field had huge banners set up behind the benches that read: "DUUUUUUVAL". Is this just a Jaguars thing, or do people around the area often refer to the county as just "Duval"?
It's just Jaguars branding. When I lived there, no one referenced it that way. I did have a friend who grew up there and when I had moved away, we used it as a joke term, as in something that could only happen in Jax was very Duval.
Chris
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 25, 2021, 07:59:18 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 24, 2021, 09:51:29 PM
I've heard Marin county locations referred to as such in SF news media.
Similarly, folks in Richmond, Virginia use the term "down in Chesterfield" like a city name to describe most of the county. Back not so long ago, the still unincorporated Chesterfield Court House wasn't much more than the government facilities. There are some placenames still used regularly (Bon Air and Chester come to mind), so the whole county isn't included.
Midlothian has become like this now that it's had major growth in the past 20 years or so. Before that, growing up in the 90s if we were going to Midlothian we'd just say we were going to Richmond. Now it (and Short Pump) are big in their own right.
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.
Yes, the reason is very much the same for both. And it's very much a Downstate thing–you'll find it as well, and perhaps even more so, in Nassau and Suffolk. Heck, the town of Hempstead is the second-largest municipality in all of New York, but the towns and even many of the villages are almost unknown in these counties. Of course, in this case you don't need to say "Nassau, NY" or "Suffolk, NY" because you can just say "Long Island, NY" (and people definitely do say that, very often).
The difference, I think, between Rockland and Westchester is that the cities and villages of Westchester are more distinct and better-known locally. It's only on a national scale where the name "Westchester" carries more recognition that White Plains or Mount Kisco or even Yonkers. Whereas in Rockland, even the county name isn't quite universally known, so it can't stand on its own the way Westchester can.
QuoteYour last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.
Those are good examples, the only difficulty being that it's hard to tell if "Saratoga" and "Niagara" are being used as the actual county names, or merely as abbreviations for Saratoga Springs and Niagara Falls. I think the former is more likely in Saratoga County, since it has considerable suburban area that is part of the Capital District and yet distinct from Saratoga Springs. Still, the test would be whether you could tell an Ohioan or Texan that you're from "Saratoga, NY" and have them understand that you mean Clifton Park and not Saratoga Springs. (For Niagara, I am sure that you would always evoke the city on the falls, not North Tonawanda or Lockport, in that scenario.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:48:07 AM
Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City. (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)
I have no doubt that Baltimore County would be a very likely candidate, if only it had a name different from the city. (On the other hand, Montgomery and Prince George's counties don't seem to qualify, so maybe not.)
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 10:58:38 AM
It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).
If I heard that, I'd be positive that they were referring to a location in the greater city of Baltimore, irrespective of any political boundary. Imagine introducing yourself at an out-of-town social function. "I'm from Baltimore, Maryland." Would you ever say that expecting the other person to understand that you're not from Baltimore itself, but from some separate and distinct place?
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 25, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)
It's not a county, so it would be a different phenomenon (you'd never say "Inland Empire County" in the first place, so the absence of "county" has no significance). But there are certainly regional names that can be used in the
City, State format–see also "Long Island, NY" above. In that respect it might indeed be similar.
Tangentially related... I once knew a woman from Ramona (CA) who always referred to the business below as "the N. A. P. A."–because, she said, Napa is a wine-producing region of California, not an auto parts store.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/fredericksburg.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/business/0/2c/02c31641-1aaa-5dc3-82a4-f1a13bfa0dca/5edaaa127c523.image.jpg)
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Tangentially related... I once knew a woman from Ramona (CA) who always referred to the business below as "the N. A. P. A."–because, she said, Napa is a wine-producing region of California, not an auto parts store.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/fredericksburg.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/business/0/2c/02c31641-1aaa-5dc3-82a4-f1a13bfa0dca/5edaaa127c523.image.jpg)
Their 2016 5w-30 is to die for.
Quote from: kphoger on March 25, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Tangentially related... I once knew a woman from Ramona (CA) who always referred to the business below as "the N. A. P. A."—because, she said, Napa is a wine-producing region of California, not an auto parts store.
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/fredericksburg.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/business/0/2c/02c31641-1aaa-5dc3-82a4-f1a13bfa0dca/5edaaa127c523.image.jpg)
Surprisingly, she’s technically correct: NAPA stands for the National Automotive Parts Association.
Of course, she’s being unnecessarily pedantic. Which means she’d probably fit in well on this forum.
Morris and Essex in NJ both are often referred to as Morris, NJ (not the township within it either) and Essex, NJ I have heard. Bergen County, NJ is another one.
I knew people from when I lived in the Omaha area that referred to Sarpy County simply as Sarpy, although I don't think it was common.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 25, 2021, 10:51:55 PM
Morris and Essex in NJ both are often referred to as Morris, NJ (not the township within it either) and Essex, NJ I have heard. Bergen County, NJ is another one.
Just yesterday I heard someone refer to Fairfield, which I assumed to be Fairfield County in Connecticut. Now that I think about it, it may have been referring to the university, or even the city of Fairfield. What's interesting in this case is that although the county shares its name with a place it contains, and despite the fact that CT counties are all but defunct, the phrase "Fairfield, CT" does tend to evoke the county before it does the city. (This because it identifies that part of the state that's suburban to New York, as opposed to being in the separate region of New England.)
Gloucester County in Hampton Roads is generally referred to as just Gloucester, as if it were a contiguous city (with the Gloucester Point or Gloucester Courthouse areas requiring specific usage).
York County is always referred to as a county, but its small size and lack of distinct identifiable communities save for Yorktown make it feel like a single city. (Everything south of the Naval Weapons Station uses a Yorktown mailing address IIRC)
El Dorado, County CA gets named like a city even though it's technically a county east of Sacramento.
Also I heard of Tuolumne and Alpine counties get discussed like they were cities though.
Manhattan is technically New York County, so if someone said "New York" ' in reference to Manhattan, they wouldn't be wrong even if it almost always means the city.
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
Manhattan is technically New York County, so if someone said "New York" ' in reference to Manhattan, they wouldn't be wrong even if it almost always means the city.
This one is interesting, for although people almost always are referring to the city, they are often only
thinking of New York County and not the other four boroughs. On the other hand, when people say "The Bronx, NY" they are definitely thinking of the borough and not the county!
Miami-Dade.
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.
Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Quote from: amroad17 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:45 AM
Miami-Dade.
** Did not read the OP **
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
... Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.
Quote from: amroad17 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:45 AM
Miami-Dade.
** Did not read the OP **
Or maybe just confirming that it is, in fact, used prevalently.
Quote from: empirestate on March 31, 2021, 01:26:51 AM
Quote from: interstatefan990 on March 27, 2021, 04:35:38 PM
Manhattan is technically New York County, so if someone said "New York" ' in reference to Manhattan, they wouldn't be wrong even if it almost always means the city.
This one is interesting, for although people almost always are referring to the city, they are often only thinking of New York County and not the other four boroughs. On the other hand, when people say "The Bronx, NY" they are definitely thinking of the borough and not the county!
Also when people refer to places in Queens they use the neighborhood of that borough unlike the 3 other boroughs outside Manhattan that consider their borough name to be a city name. Most people treat Flushing as a town rather than part of Queens or NYC.
The post office uses neighborhood names rather than borough names for zip codes. Citifield for example, is considered to be in the postal community of Flushing rather than Queens unlike Coney Island in Brooklyn that uses Brooklyn as its postal community for its residents and stores.
The Philly news agencies often refer to Montgomery County PA as "Montco" and Delaware County PA as "Delco". But only those two counties. And that doesn't exactly fit the OP since "co" is "county" shortened. But sometimes they refer to the towns and townships within and sometimes not. To add to that, there is a Springfield Twp in each of Montco and Delco, but those are referred to as full names: "Springfield, Montgomery County" and "Springfield, Delaware County".
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 31, 2021, 01:39:05 PM
The Philly news agencies often refer to Montgomery County PA as "Montco" and Delaware County PA as "Delco". But only those two counties. And that doesn't exactly fit the OP since "co" is "county" shortened. But sometimes they refer to the towns and townships within and sometimes not.
Then there's the
town of Claycomo (MO), which is sort of the opposite.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 31, 2021, 01:39:05 PM
The Philly news agencies often refer to Montgomery County PA as "Montco" and Delaware County PA as "Delco". But only those two counties. And that doesn't exactly fit the OP since "co" is "county" shortened. But sometimes they refer to the towns and townships within and sometimes not. To add to that, there is a Springfield Twp in each of Montco and Delco, but those are referred to as full names: "Springfield, Montgomery County" and "Springfield, Delaware County".
And folks in Raleigh now refer to Johnston County as "Joco". It's a popular nickname that if you type "Joco" into your browser, the official county website pops up.
Not a nickname, but Durham County officially brands itself as "DCo" (https://www.dconc.gov), with the D and C interlocked. It's weird seeing this logo taking up the entire side of the new ambulances.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 31, 2021, 07:38:29 PM
And folks in Raleigh now refer to Johnston County as "Joco". It's a popular nickname that if you type "Joco" into your browser, the official county website pops up.
The Johnson County in my state sometimes gets called that, and it's partly because Kansas uses a system unique two-letter abbreviations for each county, often the first two letters of the name. Wyandotte County also gets called "WyCo."
Quote from: stridentweasel on March 31, 2021, 08:45:51 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on March 31, 2021, 07:38:29 PM
And folks in Raleigh now refer to Johnston County as "Joco". It's a popular nickname that if you type "Joco" into your browser, the official county website pops up.
The Johnson County in my state sometimes gets called that, and it's partly because Kansas uses a system unique two-letter abbreviations for each county, often the first two letters of the name. Wyandotte County also gets called "WyCo."
They don't want to follow the example of Missouri locations Taneycomo and Claycomo, and call themselves Wycoks? :biggrin:
Quote from: roadman65 on March 31, 2021, 10:30:07 AM
Also when people refer to places in Queens they use the neighborhood of that borough unlike the 3 other boroughs outside Manhattan that consider their borough name to be a city name. Most people treat Flushing as a town rather than part of Queens or NYC.
The post office uses neighborhood names rather than borough names for zip codes. Citifield for example, is considered to be in the postal community of Flushing rather than Queens unlike Coney Island in Brooklyn that uses Brooklyn as its postal community for its residents and stores.
Yes, and that, I assume, is because Queens County was more recently a collection of separate towns and villages than Kings County, as Brooklyn was a city in its own right before being consolidated with New York.
Bronx is another story, though–it was at one point a borough within New York County, so perhaps at that time the idea of it being a standalone postal city came into being. But I feel like that actually happened much more recently...
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 31, 2021, 01:39:05 PM
The Philly news agencies often refer to Montgomery County PA as "Montco" and Delaware County PA as "Delco". But only those two counties. And that doesn't exactly fit the OP since "co" is "county" shortened.
Hmm, well, would you introduce yourself as being from Montco, PA or Delco, PA? (Or put it in the byline of a national news report?) If so, it could still fit.
I see people refer to "Cleveland" without putting "County" after it a lot, but everyone who does that seems to think it snows a lot here, that our lake is polluted, and we have a lot of closed down factories, for some reason.
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 24, 2021, 10:57:38 PM
I'd argue Napa and Sonoma refer more to the counties than the cities.
Chris
But there are cities of those names. There is also a Marin City and a city called Orange in California. Many, if not most, other counites in California have eponymous cities, sometimes not in the county. Yuba City, for instance, in in Sutter, not Yuba, county. Placerville is in El Dorado, not Placer, county.
Quote from: michravera on April 03, 2021, 02:50:37 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 24, 2021, 10:57:38 PM
I'd argue Napa and Sonoma refer more to the counties than the cities.
Chris
But there are cities of those names. There is also a Marin City and a city called Orange in California. Many, if not most, other counites in California have eponymous cities, sometimes not in the county. Yuba City, for instance, in in Sutter, not Yuba, county. Placerville is in El Dorado, not Placer, county.
I mean, it's possible that kind of thing could count, if there's no question that the county name is being used to refer to a location completely distinct from the eponymous city (or one outside the city but nevertheless known by the name of the city; i.e., its metro area). For example, if someone from Needles or Baker or Barstow would be likely to say "I'm from San Bernardino, California," then I should think that would be an example, despite the fact that there's a city of San Bernardino elsewhere in that immense county.
Quote from: empirestate on April 03, 2021, 07:34:42 PM
Quote from: michravera on April 03, 2021, 02:50:37 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on March 24, 2021, 10:57:38 PM
I'd argue Napa and Sonoma refer more to the counties than the cities.
Chris
But there are cities of those names. There is also a Marin City and a city called Orange in California. Many, if not most, other counites in California have eponymous cities, sometimes not in the county. Yuba City, for instance, in in Sutter, not Yuba, county. Placerville is in El Dorado, not Placer, county.
I mean, it's possible that kind of thing could count, if there's no question that the county name is being used to refer to a location completely distinct from the eponymous city (or one outside the city but nevertheless known by the name of the city; i.e., its metro area). For example, if someone from Needles or Baker or Barstow would be likely to say "I'm from San Bernardino, California," then I should think that would be an example, despite the fact that there's a city of San Bernardino elsewhere in that immense county.
It seems that my message was unclear. My thinking was that this type of thing would be rare or ambiguous for most counties in California (including Napa, Sonoma, Marin, and Orange and others) because of the eponymous names (both inside and outside the county). Everyone whom I have ever met from Barstow, says that they are from Barstow, rather than "San Bernardino" (with or without "County"), at least if it seems that you have anything remotely like a California accent. Everyone whom I know from Orange County says that they are from Orange County or "Oci" (often without naming their "Naninani Beach" or "Indicame Bay" city), even to those who don't have a California accent.
People from San Francisco County are allowed unambiguously not to say "county" because the city and county are coextensive. People who live in Los Angeles County often just say "Elei" even if they don't exactly live inside the city unless they specifically want to identify as being from the San Fernando Valley or Pasadena. People who live in Sacramento and Fresno counties but not actually in the cities often do the same sort of cheat. If you seem to have a California accent, they
may tell you "Clovis" or "Elk Grove" in order to be more specific.
Durham County -> Durham NC
Quote from: empirestate on March 25, 2021, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.
Yes, the reason is very much the same for both. And it's very much a Downstate thing–you'll find it as well, and perhaps even more so, in Nassau and Suffolk. Heck, the town of Hempstead is the second-largest municipality in all of New York, but the towns and even many of the villages are almost unknown in these counties. Of course, in this case you don't need to say "Nassau, NY" or "Suffolk, NY" because you can just say "Long Island, NY" (and people definitely do say that, very often).
The difference, I think, between Rockland and Westchester is that the cities and villages of Westchester are more distinct and better-known locally. It's only on a national scale where the name "Westchester" carries more recognition that White Plains or Mount Kisco or even Yonkers. Whereas in Rockland, even the county name isn't quite universally known, so it can't stand on its own the way Westchester can.
QuoteYour last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.
Those are good examples, the only difficulty being that it's hard to tell if "Saratoga" and "Niagara" are being used as the actual county names, or merely as abbreviations for Saratoga Springs and Niagara Falls. I think the former is more likely in Saratoga County, since it has considerable suburban area that is part of the Capital District and yet distinct from Saratoga Springs. Still, the test would be whether you could tell an Ohioan or Texan that you're from "Saratoga, NY" and have them understand that you mean Clifton Park and not Saratoga Springs. (For Niagara, I am sure that you would always evoke the city on the falls, not North Tonawanda or Lockport, in that scenario.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:48:07 AM
Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City. (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)
I have no doubt that Baltimore County would be a very likely candidate, if only it had a name different from the city. (On the other hand, Montgomery and Prince George's counties don't seem to qualify, so maybe not.)
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 10:58:38 AM
It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).
If I heard that, I'd be positive that they were referring to a location in the greater city of Baltimore, irrespective of any political boundary. Imagine introducing yourself at an out-of-town social function. "I'm from Baltimore, Maryland." Would you ever say that expecting the other person to understand that you're not from Baltimore itself, but from some separate and distinct place?
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 25, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)
It's not a county, so it would be a different phenomenon (you'd never say "Inland Empire County" in the first place, so the absence of "county" has no significance). But there are certainly regional names that can be used in the City, State format–see also "Long Island, NY" above. In that respect it might indeed be similar.
Almost all the cities in NYS are named after major cities and people. Homer -> Homer (famous greek mythologist). Syracuse NY -> Syracuse IT
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
So on the news this evening, the anchor handed off to a reporter on the scene in "Westchester, New York"–that is, somewhere in Westchester County. It occurred to me that it's not uncommon for Westchester to be referred to this way, as if it's the name of a city or town. But when I tried to think of another county where this is the case, I couldn't.
Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is.
(We would, of course, exclude cases where a city or town has the same name as its county, like Los Angeles or the Bronx.)
Quote from: amroad17 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:45 AM
Miami-Dade.
** Did not read the OP **
how did you do that? :wow: :confused:
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 02:32:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
... Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is. ...
Quote from: amroad17 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:45 AM
Miami-Dade.
** Did not read the OP **
how did you do that? :wow: :confused:
If you're referring to the moving text, the code is visible in the quote. It's this:
[move]moving text[/move]
Quote from: webny99 on April 05, 2021, 02:45:09 PM
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 02:32:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 31, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 24, 2021, 08:02:10 PM
... Are there other counties that are commonly referred to by only their "first" name in a City, State format, without appending "county" (or "parish" or whatever)? I thought of Miami-Dade as one potential answer, but I'm not sure how prevalent that usage is. ...
Quote from: amroad17 on March 31, 2021, 01:31:45 AM
Miami-Dade.
** Did not read the OP **
how did you do that? :wow: :confused:
If you're referring to the moving text, the code is visible in the text box you see when quoting.
[move]moving text[/move]
Now it works. Thanks!
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 02:28:25 PM
Durham County -> Durham NC
That doesn't count. The city of Durham in that county covers more than half the county.
Quote from: michravera on April 05, 2021, 02:25:55 PM
It seems that my message was unclear. My thinking was that this type of thing would be rare or ambiguous for most counties in California (including Napa, Sonoma, Marin, and Orange and others) because of the eponymous names (both inside and outside the county). Everyone whom I have ever met from Barstow, says that they are from Barstow, rather than "San Bernardino" (with or without "County"), at least if it seems that you have anything remotely like a California accent. Everyone whom I know from Orange County says that they are from Orange County or "Oci" (often without naming their "Naninani Beach" or "Indicame Bay" city), even to those who don't have a California accent.
People from San Francisco County are allowed unambiguously not to say "county" because the city and county are coextensive. People who live in Los Angeles County often just say "Elei" even if they don't exactly live inside the city unless they specifically want to identify as being from the San Fernando Valley or Pasadena. People who live in Sacramento and Fresno counties but not actually in the cities often do the same sort of cheat. If you seem to have a California accent, they may tell you "Clovis" or "Elk Grove" in order to be more specific.
Well, unclear or not, the good news is your message was just what I thought it was. :-)
Yes, people from Barstow don't say they're from San Bernardino, CA. But if they did, it would be an example of what I'm describing. Likewise, if people from Napa County or Sonoma County–but well outside of the cities of Napa or Sonoma–would say that they're from Napa, CA or Sonoma, CA, as Chris seems to suggest they would, it might also be an example.
In other words, the presence of a city inside an eponymous county isn't, by itself, a disqualification. It's when you really can't distinguish which one they're referring to, because it's the same piece of territory.
Quote from: snowc on April 05, 2021, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: empirestate on March 25, 2021, 03:14:20 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 09:44:50 AM
What's interesting about Rockland is that the five towns that comprise the county really don't mean much, and are barely used when referring to locations within the county. I suspect Westchester might be similar. For example, if you asked me to name five locations in Rockland County, none of them would be the actual town names. I'd probably pick five of the "hamlet and census-designated place(s)" (as Google calls them). I had never even heard of the town of Ramapo until a few years ago, and was stunned to learn that it's one of the most populous towns in the state. Similar situation with Clarkstown.
Yes, the reason is very much the same for both. And it's very much a Downstate thing–you'll find it as well, and perhaps even more so, in Nassau and Suffolk. Heck, the town of Hempstead is the second-largest municipality in all of New York, but the towns and even many of the villages are almost unknown in these counties. Of course, in this case you don't need to say "Nassau, NY" or "Suffolk, NY" because you can just say "Long Island, NY" (and people definitely do say that, very often).
The difference, I think, between Rockland and Westchester is that the cities and villages of Westchester are more distinct and better-known locally. It's only on a national scale where the name "Westchester" carries more recognition that White Plains or Mount Kisco or even Yonkers. Whereas in Rockland, even the county name isn't quite universally known, so it can't stand on its own the way Westchester can.
QuoteYour last point about this being more common in the Mid-Atlantic is an interesting one. It does seem be a phenomenon that mostly occurs in the suburbs. As such, the best Upstate candidates would probably be Saratoga and Niagara - I have actually heard the latter in everyday conversation, as in "We're going to Niagara today" - perhaps the prominence of Niagara Falls makes "Niagara" understandable for use in reference to the Falls and/or the area as a whole.
Those are good examples, the only difficulty being that it's hard to tell if "Saratoga" and "Niagara" are being used as the actual county names, or merely as abbreviations for Saratoga Springs and Niagara Falls. I think the former is more likely in Saratoga County, since it has considerable suburban area that is part of the Capital District and yet distinct from Saratoga Springs. Still, the test would be whether you could tell an Ohioan or Texan that you're from "Saratoga, NY" and have them understand that you mean Clifton Park and not Saratoga Springs. (For Niagara, I am sure that you would always evoke the city on the falls, not North Tonawanda or Lockport, in that scenario.)
Quote from: jmacswimmer on March 25, 2021, 10:48:07 AM
Conversely, my experience in MD is that people generally do a good job of differentiating between Baltimore County & Baltimore City. (It helps that the various suburbs in the county are usually the main reference points, as opposed to the county as a whole.)
I have no doubt that Baltimore County would be a very likely candidate, if only it had a name different from the city. (On the other hand, Montgomery and Prince George's counties don't seem to qualify, so maybe not.)
Quote from: webny99 on March 25, 2021, 10:58:38 AM
It's not necessarily always clear which one is being referred to, which is where it gets a little tricky. If someone from Bel Air says they're going to Baltimore, but their destination is actually in the county, not the city, does that mean it counts as an example, or is it just dismissed as a technicality? Kind of depends on the starting point, too. I'd certainly lean towards calling it a technicality for any starting point beyond Baltimore's own exurbs (and apply the same logic to St. Louis).
If I heard that, I'd be positive that they were referring to a location in the greater city of Baltimore, irrespective of any political boundary. Imagine introducing yourself at an out-of-town social function. "I'm from Baltimore, Maryland." Would you ever say that expecting the other person to understand that you're not from Baltimore itself, but from some separate and distinct place?
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 25, 2021, 12:38:36 PM
What about Inland Empire? It borrows from multiple counties but doesn't really have a set city center (Riverside?!)
It's not a county, so it would be a different phenomenon (you'd never say "Inland Empire County" in the first place, so the absence of "county" has no significance). But there are certainly regional names that can be used in the City, State format–see also "Long Island, NY" above. In that respect it might indeed be similar.
Almost all the cities in NYS are named after major cities and people. Homer -> Homer (famous greek mythologist). Syracuse NY -> Syracuse IT
Now this message, I'm afraid,
is unclear, as I'm not seeing how this follows from the quoted material! :-o :D
Quote from: Thing 342 on March 27, 2021, 12:06:09 AM
Gloucester County in Hampton Roads is generally referred to as just Gloucester, as if it were a contiguous city (with the Gloucester Point or Gloucester Courthouse areas requiring specific usage).
York County is always referred to as a county, but its small size and lack of distinct identifiable communities save for Yorktown make it feel like a single city. (Everything south of the Naval Weapons Station uses a Yorktown mailing address IIRC)
isle of wight is like that... lived there for... a minute. most people equate isle of wight with smithfield (apparently pronounced 'smiffuld')
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
Orlando, Florida you hear Orange, Osceola, and Seminole.
Tampa, Florida you hear Pinnelas, Pasco, and Hillsborough.
Miami you hear Miami-Dade and Broward.
NYC you hear Westchester, Rockland, Nassau, and Suffolk. Then of course NJ itself is treated by New York as a city rather than its counties in the Metro.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 07, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
I haven't heard this in Chicago, except possibly with DuPage County. I've never heard anyone refer to just Will, Kane, or Lake.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 07, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
Many certainly do, for brevity's sake. But we're not looking for that, we're looking for "Name, State" (so "Pinellas, Florida" or "Nassau, New York"). The "state" component can be implied, but it would still be a case where that's a logical construction.
So if we take the original example, it's something like "We take you now to our reporter on the scene in Westchester, New York." Another version of that could be, "Did you grow up in New York City?" "No, I grew up in Westchester." This would be understandable even to an out-of-state listener; so, there's an assumption that this is something more than just local shorthand.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 07, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
No. Hence the thread. No one in Denver says Arapahoe, Douglas, Jefferson, Adams, etc.
JeffCo is the only one that even has a shorthand.
Chris
"Salt Lake" is probably the closest you'll get to something like this in Utah, but I feel like that's more a reference to the urban valley than the county itself. What it is not is a reference to the city proper - that is, if I live up in Park City or something and I tell someone I'm driving down to Salt Lake tomorrow, that basically means anywhere below 5000 ft. elevation in Salt Lake County.
Now that I think about it some more, I wonder if Cache qualifies. I want to say I've heard some people refer to the areas around Logan as simply "Cache", and you'd certainly be understood if you did that... but just "Cache County" or more likely "the Cache Valley" would be what you'd hear in casual conversation.
Quote from: US 89 on April 08, 2021, 01:00:14 AM
"Salt Lake" is probably the closest you'll get to something like this in Utah, but I feel like that's more a reference to the urban valley than the county itself. What it is not is a reference to the city proper - that is, if I live up in Park City or something and I tell someone I'm driving down to Salt Lake tomorrow, that basically means anywhere below 5000 ft. elevation in Salt Lake County.
Now that I think about it some more, I wonder if Cache qualifies. I want to say I've heard some people refer to the areas around Logan as simply "Cache", and you'd certainly be understood if you did that... but just "Cache County" or more likely "the Cache Valley" would be what you'd hear in casual conversation.
But it is a reference to the metro. I don't live
in Denver, but I live in Denver. Same story.
Chris
Quote from: US 89 on April 08, 2021, 01:00:14 AM
"Salt Lake" is probably the closest you'll get to something like this in Utah, but I feel like that's more a reference to the urban valley than the county itself. What it is not is a reference to the city proper - that is, if I live up in Park City or something and I tell someone I'm driving down to Salt Lake tomorrow, that basically means anywhere below 5000 ft. elevation in Salt Lake County.
Now that I think about it some more, I wonder if Cache qualifies. I want to say I've heard some people refer to the areas around Logan as simply "Cache", and you'd certainly be understood if you did that... but just "Cache County" or more likely "the Cache Valley" would be what you'd hear in casual conversation.
Hm. Not sure how common it is to refer to Logan as Cache. My father spent a year at Utah State and my brother got married there. I think I've heard more people just refer to the area as "Logan."
That said, years ago, I biked a metric (100 km) in the area and it was called the Cache Valley something or other. Also, places like Smithfield are growing to the point where they are developing their own distinct identities. Smithfield's getting their own Mormon temple now...
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 08, 2021, 12:34:42 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 07, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
No. Hence the thread. No one in Denver says Arapahoe, Douglas, Jefferson, Adams, etc.
JeffCo is the only one that even has a shorthand.
Chris
what about broomfield? the actual 'city' of broomfield i don't think is that big... but the 'county' i think is often referred to like a city... or did they make it a city/county? i just remember it was sorta cobbled together from chunks of 4 different counties, because some people were having to to to greeley to register their cars before.
denver's weird.
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 08, 2021, 07:43:40 AM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 08, 2021, 12:34:42 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 07, 2021, 12:32:57 PM
Doesn't every large city refer to its surrounding counties as name only?
No. Hence the thread. No one in Denver says Arapahoe, Douglas, Jefferson, Adams, etc.
JeffCo is the only one that even has a shorthand.
Chris
what about broomfield? the actual 'city' of broomfield i don't think is that big... but the 'county' i think is often referred to like a city... or did they make it a city/county? i just remember it was sorta cobbled together from chunks of 4 different counties, because some people were having to to to greeley to register their cars before.
denver's weird.
If it's a combined city and county (like Broomfield, Denver, etc.) then you're always referring to the city.
Chris
Currituck County, NC is sometimes referred to as "Currituck", without noting a specific town located there (Moyock, Barco, etc). The same is also true of Camden, NC (both town and county).
Quote from: Rothman on April 08, 2021, 07:41:15 AM
Hm. Not sure how common it is to refer to Logan as Cache. My father spent a year at Utah State and my brother got married there. I think I've heard more people just refer to the area as "Logan."
That said, years ago, I biked a metric (100 km) in the area and it was called the Cache Valley something or other. Also, places like Smithfield are growing to the point where they are developing their own distinct identities. Smithfield's getting their own Mormon temple now...
I'm not sure - I spent two glorious nights at the Logan, Utah Econo Lodge in 2009 and came in second place at the AAG Geography Bowl at Utah State in Logan, Utah and everybody there at the time called the greater area "Cache Valley"
Berkshire County (but as "the Berkshires") is used more than any individual community in the county.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
Berkshire County (but as "the Berkshires") is used more than any individual community in the county.
Only when referring to the region and usually in regards to vacationing there. People refer to the individual communities more often than you'd think (Lee, Lenox, Stockbridge, Pittsfield and North Adams especially). Funny thing is that when people talk about "The Berkshires," they typically don't mean the dying communities of Pittsfield and North Adams, but the Lee-Lenox-Stockbridge triangle (incl. Jacob's Ladder and Tanglewood).
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
Berkshire County (but as "the Berkshires") is used more than any individual community in the county.
Only when referring to the region and usually in regards to vacationing there. People refer to the individual communities more often than you'd think (Lee, Lenox, Stockbridge, Pittsfield and North Adams especially). Funny thing is that when people talk about "The Berkshires," they typically don't mean the dying communities of Pittsfield and North Adams, but the Lee-Lenox-Stockbridge triangle (incl. Jacob's Ladder and Tanglewood).
Pittsfield and North Adams are dying?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2021, 10:42:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
Berkshire County (but as "the Berkshires") is used more than any individual community in the county.
Only when referring to the region and usually in regards to vacationing there. People refer to the individual communities more often than you'd think (Lee, Lenox, Stockbridge, Pittsfield and North Adams especially). Funny thing is that when people talk about "The Berkshires," they typically don't mean the dying communities of Pittsfield and North Adams, but the Lee-Lenox-Stockbridge triangle (incl. Jacob's Ladder and Tanglewood).
Pittsfield and North Adams are dying?
Clinging, at best. Don't let MassMoCA fool you.
Not necessarily the same thing, but the northern and eastern parts of San Diego County are often referred as simply North County or East County.
Maui, Hawaii is really a county but it gets referred to like its a city given that there on different islands within the state of Hawaii.
I never found that to be the case, especially on the island of Maui. Places like Hana, Wailuku, Lahaina and Kihei are referred to as the distinct communities that they are.
In North Texas you could say Tarrant or Collin or Ellis or Wise and people would know where you're talking about without calling it a county.
Dallas or Denton or Kaufman or Rockwall is different because there are cities within those counties you have to differentiate.
Has anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 10:35:52 AMHas anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
No, because they aren't or are no longer mentioned as individual cities.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on March 24, 2021, 09:43:02 PMOh, also Wyandotte County, Kansas is often just called "Wyandotte." Sometimes "The Dotte," if you're cool enough, I guess.
Crimedotte County.
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2025, 11:40:19 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 10:35:52 AMHas anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
No, because they aren't or are no longer mentioned as individual cities.
Brooklyn and Manhattan frequently get their own individual mentions. If you're a baseball fan, those people know Bronx and (to a lesser degree) Queens.
Sorry Staten Island.
Quote from: Rothman on April 06, 2025, 11:40:19 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 10:35:52 AMHas anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
No, because they aren't or are no longer mentioned as individual cities.
To the USPS, it is very much still 'Bronx, NY', 'Brooklyn, NY' and 'Staten Island, NY'.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 08:15:14 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 06, 2025, 11:40:19 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 10:35:52 AMHas anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
No, because they aren't or are no longer mentioned as individual cities.
To the USPS, it is very much still 'Bronx, NY', 'Brooklyn, NY' and 'Staten Island, NY'.
...
If you think USPS naming and informal public naming conventions are the same...you are wrong.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 06, 2025, 08:14:19 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 06, 2025, 11:40:19 AMQuote from: mgk920 on April 06, 2025, 10:35:52 AMHas anyone in here yet brought up the five boroughs of NYC?
Mike
No, because they aren't or are no longer mentioned as individual cities.
Brooklyn and Manhattan frequently get their own individual mentions. If you're a baseball fan, those people know Bronx and (to a lesser degree) Queens.
Sorry Staten Island.
Meh, not as their own cities. Everyone knows they're all part of NYC. They're basically being mentioned aa their own sections of NYC rather than independently.
"Manhattan", "Brooklyn", and "Staten Island" aren't county names either (it's New York, Kings, and Richmond, respectively). Queens is, but even Bronx County doesn't perfectly match (the borough is The Bronx).
The New York Nets missed the playoffs this again season?
Mike
I'm not sure I see people referring to Fulton like a city though... most people say the actual city for places in Fulton County (Atlanta, Sandy Springs, Roswell, Johns Creek, etc)
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on March 24, 2021, 10:12:04 PMAre we counting consolidated city-counties, like San Francisco, or Athens, GA?
Almost no one refers to Clarke County GA as "Clarke, GA" the way the OP meant... all references are to Athens, GA
Quote from: vdeane on April 06, 2025, 09:25:00 PM"Manhattan", "Brooklyn", and "Staten Island" aren't county names either (it's New York, Kings, and Richmond, respectively). Queens is, but even Bronx County doesn't perfectly match (the borough is The Bronx).
And Queens is a borough where the post office uses neighborhood names for addresses. There is no Queens, New York in mailing through the USPS.
It seems like it's fairly common to refer to most of Nevada's counties without "County", since there's only 17 of them. (I guess you can't do it with Elko County because Elko city exists.) During the election, you'd see Nevada-based commentators referring to "the mail returns from Washoe", "early voting in Clark", "I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda", and things like that.
Quote"I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda"
s/the Internet/running water/
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on April 16, 2025, 09:54:21 PMQuote"I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda"
s/the Internet/running water/
In Bewitched
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ3MDA4MDkyMl5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNDM2MDgzMjE@._V1_FMjpg_UX1000_.jpg)
Quote from: ran4sh on April 09, 2025, 11:26:24 AMI'm not sure I see people referring to Fulton like a city though... most people say the actual city for places in Fulton County (Atlanta, Sandy Springs, Roswell, Johns Creek, etc)
I take that back.
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on April 16, 2025, 09:54:21 PMQuote"I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda"
s/the Internet/running water/
Apparently up until about 10 years ago Esmeralda County records weren't computerized. They were on paper. In leatherbound books. In calligraphy.
Quote from: vdeane on April 06, 2025, 09:25:00 PM"Manhattan", "Brooklyn", and "Staten Island" aren't county names either (it's New York, Kings, and Richmond, respectively). Queens is, but even Bronx County doesn't perfectly match (the borough is The Bronx).
At least to bring it relevant to our board, the borough names are used as control cities on highway signage when you are in another borough. Even control city purists who balk at using state names, county names, or names of bridges on the signs would likely not have a problem with the usage of borough names along NYC interstates.
Quote from: mrsman on April 29, 2025, 08:39:45 PMQuote from: vdeane on April 06, 2025, 09:25:00 PM"Manhattan", "Brooklyn", and "Staten Island" aren't county names either (it's New York, Kings, and Richmond, respectively). Queens is, but even Bronx County doesn't perfectly match (the borough is The Bronx).
At least to bring it relevant to our board, the borough names are used as control cities on highway signage when you are in another borough. Even control city purists who balk at using state names, county names, or names of bridges on the signs would likely not have a problem with the usage of borough names along NYC interstates.
The City of Del Water Gap...
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2025, 08:56:59 PMIt seems like it's fairly common to refer to most of Nevada's counties without "County", since there's only 17 of them. (I guess you can't do it with Elko County because Elko city exists.) During the election, you'd see Nevada-based commentators referring to "the mail returns from Washoe", "early voting in Clark", "I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda", and things like that.
New York does that. It's Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Westchester, and Putnam. Other counties like Orange County are called that as well as Duchess and Ulster are followed by county.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 29, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2025, 08:56:59 PMIt seems like it's fairly common to refer to most of Nevada's counties without "County", since there's only 17 of them. (I guess you can't do it with Elko County because Elko city exists.) During the election, you'd see Nevada-based commentators referring to "the mail returns from Washoe", "early voting in Clark", "I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda", and things like that.
New York does that. It's Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Westchester, and Putnam. Other counties like Orange County are called that as well as Duchess and Ulster are followed by county.
It's inconsistent in New York with this usage.
Quote from: Rothman on April 29, 2025, 10:28:33 PMQuote from: roadman65 on April 29, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2025, 08:56:59 PMIt seems like it's fairly common to refer to most of Nevada's counties without "County", since there's only 17 of them. (I guess you can't do it with Elko County because Elko city exists.) During the election, you'd see Nevada-based commentators referring to "the mail returns from Washoe", "early voting in Clark", "I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda", and things like that.
New York does that. It's Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Westchester, and Putnam. Other counties like Orange County are called that as well as Duchess and Ulster are followed by county.
It's inconsistent in New York with this usage.
That might be a downstate thing. If the "definition of upstate vs. downstate" thread were still active, I'd even list that as a possible criteria.
Quote from: vdeane on April 30, 2025, 12:47:08 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 29, 2025, 10:28:33 PMQuote from: roadman65 on April 29, 2025, 10:04:06 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on April 16, 2025, 08:56:59 PMIt seems like it's fairly common to refer to most of Nevada's counties without "County", since there's only 17 of them. (I guess you can't do it with Elko County because Elko city exists.) During the election, you'd see Nevada-based commentators referring to "the mail returns from Washoe", "early voting in Clark", "I didn't know they even had the Internet in Esmeralda", and things like that.
New York does that. It's Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland, Westchester, and Putnam. Other counties like Orange County are called that as well as Duchess and Ulster are followed by county.
It's inconsistent in New York with this usage.
That might be a downstate thing. If the "definition of upstate vs. downstate" thread were still active, I'd even list that as a possible criteria.
I don't know. I have a friend from Rockland County that switches back and forth himself when talking about the county.