Are Rest Areas obsolete? I've noticed on a few newer long-distance roadways, none have been constructed. Some examples are: Interstate 22 in Mississippi and Alabama (excluding the westbound one just west of the Alabama/Mississippi border) Completed segments of Interstate 49 between Shreveport and Kansas City; Completed segments of future Interstate 57 in Arkansas and Missouri; Interstate 69 between Evansville and Bloomington; and existing and future segments of Interstate 69 and its spurs in Texas (will future Interstate 369 have any?) Existing and future segments of Interstate 99 in Pennsylvania and New York; Even newer long-distance toll roads don't seem to have any. Is the explanation that new roads don't need rest areas like they used to? This is something that has baffled me.
They might just be not needed now, maybe they will be added later.
Just came back from a New England trip and we used rest areas a few times. Helpful if you need to use a bathroom but don't need gas.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 24, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Are Rest Areas obsolete? I've noticed on a few newer long-distance roadways, none have been constructed. Some examples are: Interstate 22 in Mississippi and Alabama (excluding the westbound one just west of the Alabama/Mississippi border) Completed segments of Interstate 49 between Shreveport and Kansas City; Completed segments of future Interstate 57 in Arkansas and Missouri; Interstate 69 between Evansville and Bloomington; and existing and future segments of Interstate 69 and its spurs in Texas (will future Interstate 369 have any?) Existing and future segments of Interstate 99 in Pennsylvania and New York; Even newer long-distance toll roads don't seem to have any. Is the explanation that new roads don't need rest areas like they used to? This is something that has baffled me.
I-69 in Texas, or more rather its concurrent US highways, have rest areas.
Both US-77 and US-281 have a rest area for both directions between I-37 and the Valley, and US-59 has one north of Victoria for both directions. There's also one north of Livingston, which is on US-59 north of Houston.
They're not required as much on toll roads that have gone AET, since the inconvenience of waiting in a line of traffic at a toll booth on an exit ramp to surrender a ticket and doing the same to re-enter is no longer an issue.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 24, 2021, 03:20:05 PM
They're not required as much on toll roads that have gone AET, since the inconvenience of waiting in a line of traffic at a toll booth on an exit ramp to surrender a ticket and doing the same to re-enter is no longer an issue.
But they're still a double penalty for exiting on some roads, such as DE-1 and US-301 in Delaware.
I like rest areas, because when you go to a gas station there's an unspoken expectation that you need to buy something especially if it's a mom and pop shop.
I mostly use rest areas for two things:
1) Grab an official state DOT map for my collection.
2) Switch the driving seat with my dad, when one of us needs a rest. It's easier to switch at rest areas than getting off a freeway and doing it at a fast food or gas station.
I tend to use rest areas when I travel if I need somewhere to just use the bathroom or for a short break. They provide a good opportunity to walk around and stretch my legs, which generally isn't possible at gas stations, and when I travel with my dogs, they also allow me to bathroom them more easily than elsewhere.
Ohio has removed some rest areas that were pit toilets (on 2-lane roads) and failed to replace some disturbed by other construction (like I-77 at Dover) but otherwise seems committed to them. They have some newer replacement facilities under construction, and they continue to maintain and upgrade locations that are off Interstates.
West Virginia is also continuing to upgrade and replace their older rest area buildings on Interstates. West Virginia's network is strictly on Interstates.
With the case of newer Interstates, bear in mind that a lot of states generally don't put rest areas on non-Interstate roadways. If the road wasn't built as an Interstate originally (like much of I-99), they may not be there at least initially due to construction cost.
Some of our rest areas are also scenic viewpoints, which makes them a lot more functional.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 24, 2021, 03:10:19 PM
Are Rest Areas obsolete? I've noticed on a few newer long-distance roadways, none have been constructed. Some examples are: Interstate 22 in Mississippi and Alabama (excluding the westbound one just west of the Alabama/Mississippi border) Completed segments of Interstate 49 between Shreveport and Kansas City; Completed segments of future Interstate 57 in Arkansas and Missouri; Interstate 69 between Evansville and Bloomington; and existing and future segments of Interstate 69 and its spurs in Texas (will future Interstate 369 have any?) Existing and future segments of Interstate 99 in Pennsylvania and New York; Even newer long-distance toll roads don't seem to have any. Is the explanation that new roads don't need rest areas like they used to? This is something that has baffled me.
The explanation is that states are failing to include them on new highways.
Rest areas can only become obsolete if there are substitute locations where a driver can simply park their car and not be expected to make a purchase such as at a convenience store or truck stop.
I would say that they are not obsolete yet but in the last 20 years or so, truck stops have become more common at exits. I know along I-90 between Elgin, IL and Madison about a dozen have been built in that time.
Michigan has removed some rest areas, in particular where a metro area has expanded around it or where the land was needed for a new interchange. But I'm sure glad we have them in the rural areas. On I-75 in particular, they are about every 40 or 50 miles, some closer.
When I travel out of state, I notice how few areas there are in some states. I guess it depends on how much you value your tourist industry. It seems somewhat hypocritical to me when you put a welcome center rest area near the border of the state, but then don't have any more areas for well over 100 miles. "Welcome, we're glad you're here. But now that you're here, we're not going to make things any more comfortable for you."
EDIT:
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 24, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
I would say that are not obsolete yet but in the last 20 years or so, truck stops have become more common at exits.
Not only more common, but many times more acceptable to visit. I can see that. I'm just not that comfortable with truck stops yet, because the quality can vary. More than rest area quality does.
I don't think they're obsolete at all. I'm more likely to stop at them versus having to exit and go to a store, unless I'm hungry.
Rest Areas are definitely very useful for truck drivers - they have a place to easily pull off and break without having to navigate an actual exit.
Quote from: GaryV on June 24, 2021, 04:16:28 PM
Michigan has removed some rest areas, in particular where a metro area has expanded around it or where the land was needed for a new interchange. But I'm sure glad we have them in the rural areas. On I-75 in particular, they are about every 40 or 50 miles, some closer.
When I travel out of state, I notice how few areas there are in some states. I guess it depends on how much you value your tourist industry. It seems somewhat hypocritical to me when you put a welcome center rest area near the border of the state, but then don't have any more areas for well over 100 miles. "Welcome, we're glad you're here. But now that you're here, we're not going to make things any more comfortable for you."
EDIT:
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 24, 2021, 04:13:41 PM
I would say that are not obsolete yet but in the last 20 years or so, truck stops have become more common at exits.
Not only more common, but many times more acceptable to visit. I can see that. I'm just not that comfortable with truck stops yet, because the quality can vary. More than rest area quality does.
Absolutely true about the quality of a truck stop. For instance, the Iowa 80 Stop west of Davenport is nice and clean and has many choices for fast food. The Pilot truck stop in Minoka, IL, not so much. It has an Arby's though.
I was going to say that I'd expect Indiana to build a welcome center on I-69 once the bridge is done, but didn't Indiana recently remove a welcome center on I-64?
Kentucky has been replacing some of its rest areas with new buildings. They did the welcome center on I-65 a few years ago, and I-75 just recently.
Tennessee only recently added welcome centers on I-26 despite that road having had interstate status for years.
If I go into a restaurant or convenience store-truck stop to use the restroom, I feel no obligation to buy anything, unless there's a sign saying "For Paying Customers Only." If people leeching restroom facilities is a problem for these businesses, they can always install pay toilets.
Speaking of, wonder if there are any still in existence?
I used to pack a lunch and eat at highway rest stops, a habit I've resumed while driving in COVID times. Easy on, easy off.
The NH Liqour Outlet is the best rest area.
I can't imagine rest areas becoming obsolete, though I'm sure a bunch of politicians would love to remove them from their states' budgets. Rest areas are important for a variety of reasons including allowing drivers to take a break from driving, walking the dog(s), and using the toilet. Smart states also include travel information in them to aid travelers and for travelers to create a good impression of the state visited. IMO, states removing rest stops are much the same are car owners who don't change the oil or do other maintenance; I believe the old adage is "Penny wise, pound foolish."
Quote from: ClassicHasClass on June 24, 2021, 05:20:30 PM
I used to pack a lunch and eat at highway rest stops, a habit I've resumed while driving in COVID times. Easy on, easy off.
That's been my strategy on my recent trip. I saved a fortune on restaurants.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2021, 05:12:10 PM
I was going to say that I'd expect Indiana to build a welcome center on I-69 once the bridge is done, but didn't Indiana recently remove a welcome center on I-64?
Kentucky has been replacing some of its rest areas with new buildings. They did the welcome center on I-65 a few years ago, and I-75 just recently.
Tennessee only recently added welcome centers on I-26 despite that road having had interstate status for years.
If I go into a restaurant or convenience store-truck stop to use the restroom, I feel no obligation to buy anything, unless there's a sign saying "For Paying Customers Only." If people leeching restroom facilities is a problem for these businesses, they can always install pay toilets.
Speaking of, wonder if there are any still in existence?
Been 30+ years since I've seen one in the US. They are everywhere in Europe that I've been to.
I have been to Love's truck stops all over the country and have yet to run across a bad restroom for me or my wife. Don't really recall any bad ones amongst the national chains either.
I think rest areas are being obsoleted rather than are obsolete. I guess they are either too expensive to maintain or they are a victim of budget cuts. or both.
I feel safer going to a rest area than some random gas station in the middle of nowhere.
I like stopping at gas stations but sometimes they are handy when you really gotta go jump out of the car and someone has occupied it!
Quote from: SeriesE on June 24, 2021, 10:14:36 PM
I feel safer going to a rest area than some random gas station in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah I feel like remote gas stations are kind of shady.
Texas doesn't think so. Many of the old ones have been rebuilt as "enhanced" rest areas. There's a new one at the top of Ranger Hill along I-20. I stopped there when I went to photograph the new freeway construction. The enhanced areas don't just have a small building. It's a nice building, and fairly large. They have information displays and unique items, and a small system of trails leading to benches and covered picnic tables. The restrooms are accessed from inside the building, not directly from outside. The one on Ranger Hill has a storm shelter and a security office. I don't know how common that is, as I rarely visit them. They all have 24-hour video monitoring. I think they have wireless Internet service. The new state travel maps have these enhanced rest areas marked with a special symbol, to distinguish them from the older ones. It appears that most of them aren't new, but replace older ones. The only one I've really looked at is new. The two old ones south of Dallas and Fort Worth along the I-35 branches were replaced with a single facility farther south, along the unified I-35, which saves some money.
This is a brochure for them. It has a map, as well as exterior and interior photos. They're really quite nice. As I recall, the one at Ranger Hill has an old car, dating back to the early days of the highway system. This relates to the old Bankhead Highway and State Highway 1, a portion of which is preserved at the edge of the area, where it diverges from the Interstate to follow a curvy route down the steep hill.
http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/library/pubs/travel/sra_brochure.pdf (http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/library/pubs/travel/sra_brochure.pdf)
IMHO rest areas are not obsolete:
1) As noted by others, they allow a quick bathroom stop without having the expectation of buying something.
2) They make a nice place to check voicemail and return phone calls in states that require hands free phone use.
3) They provide easy places to just stop and stretch or check a map, maybe grab a quick nap.
4) As also noted by others, they are a nice easy place to picnic - very helpful when indoor dining is not allowed.
The rest area on I-95 SB near Laurel, MD was modified several years ago to (at least) double the number of parking spaces for tractor-trailers. The spaces are diagonal, and arranged so that they do not need to back up to go in or out. Across the highway, the NB area still has a smaller number of truck spaces. As such, on some nights there are multiple semis parked along the ramps, often including both sides of the off-ramp.
So as long as there are large numbers of long-haul truckers whose delivery times exceed that of a standard hours-of-service block, there will be a need for rest areas. Unless some entrepreneur comes up with a commercial truck lot idea for a minimal fee (or membership by the trucking company).
There is a truck-only rest area on I-70 EB in Frederick County, MD (No Facilities, No Car Parking). It only has like 8 spaces, though.
Iowa plans to close 8 of its 38 rest stops over the next few years:
https://nonpareilonline.com/news/state-and-regional/iowa-dot-set-to-close-six-western-iowa-rest-areas/article_94905cbf-f82e-5b4e-90db-86c8bdbc1219.html
Quote from: Mapmikey on June 24, 2021, 06:39:26 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 24, 2021, 05:12:10 PM
I was going to say that I'd expect Indiana to build a welcome center on I-69 once the bridge is done, but didn't Indiana recently remove a welcome center on I-64?
Kentucky has been replacing some of its rest areas with new buildings. They did the welcome center on I-65 a few years ago, and I-75 just recently.
Tennessee only recently added welcome centers on I-26 despite that road having had interstate status for years.
If I go into a restaurant or convenience store-truck stop to use the restroom, I feel no obligation to buy anything, unless there's a sign saying "For Paying Customers Only." If people leeching restroom facilities is a problem for these businesses, they can always install pay toilets.
Speaking of, wonder if there are any still in existence?
Been 30+ years since I've seen one in the US. They are everywhere in Europe that I've been to.
I have been to Love's truck stops all over the country and have yet to run across a bad restroom for me or my wife. Don't really recall any bad ones amongst the national chains either.
I haven't seen a pay toilet in the US, but what I have sometimes seen are secured restrooms intended to ensure that only actual customers can use them. You have to insert a token or enter a code to access the restroom. The McDonald's near 20th & M NW in DC is like that, for example, and it's intended to prevent homeless people and panhandlers from using the restroom and preventing customers from doing so.
I once paid AFTER using a pay restroom in Helsinki because my bladder was about to explode from drinking beer. The attendant was trying not to laugh too hard when I paid on the way out after seeing me go sprinting by on the way in.
I agree with all the comments in this thread that rest areas are not obsolete. About ten or twelve years ago, Virginia closed most of its rest areas to save money (they've since reopened) and the Governor said that people could stop at McDonald's or elsewhere. One comment I saw frequently in the media was, "Evidently the Governor doesn't have kids. Try stopping just for a restroom break at McDonald's with kids in the car." (Which, of course, creates a vicious circle: The food and drink you'd wind up buying would lead to the kids having to use the toilet again.)
Wisconsin has been getting rid of their more rustic ones on two lane roads. These are usually seasonal with outhouses for toilet. But the ones on interstates are very nice, year round and still pretty busy when I've used them.
Quote from: lepidopteran on June 24, 2021, 11:29:28 PM
There is a truck-only rest area on I-70 EB in Frederick County, MD (No Facilities, No Car Parking). It only has like 8 spaces, though.
I've long suspected that this, along with the WB weigh station between exits 76 & 80, used to be full rest areas, but I've never been able to find any proof of this. Both have what appear to be abandoned car parking lots behind the truck parking spaces.
^ Can't find anything currently on the WB weigh station, but 1979 topography imagery on HistoricalAerials shows the eastbound truck-only rest area labeled as "Rest Area".
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 25, 2021, 10:32:22 AM
I haven't seen a pay toilet in the US, but what I have sometimes seen are secured restrooms intended to ensure that only actual customers can use them. You have to insert a token or enter a code to access the restroom. The McDonald's near 20th & M NW in DC is like that, for example, and it's intended to prevent homeless people and panhandlers from using the restroom and preventing customers from doing so.
I encountered this at the White Castle in downtown Louisville. A code is printed on your food receipt to punch into the door to get access to the restroom. Which makes it difficult if you need to use it, or wash your hands, before you order.
I do not think rest areas are obsolete.
"Obsolete" means that something new has come along to replace the previous. VCRs are obsolete. AFAIK the bathroom functions of motorists are the same as they were in the past.
Further, rest areas have many superior characteristics contrasted to gas stations.
- They generally involve less stop to back on the road time than an exit to a store.
- They take pressure off the exit ramps.
- They provide a place for official state information to be distributed.
- In most states, they provide a place to nap, picnic, walk dogs, and other things stores won't offer.
- In an ideal world, they are consistent. With the exception of some brands with high standards, gas stations can be hit or miss. Rest areas are, or at least should be, uniformly at least acceptable.
- They provide a place for trucks with sleeper cabs.
- It is at least somewhat rude to use a businesses toilet without buying something.
- They should be safe. When traveling in an unfamiliar region, taking an exit for a store, especially at night, is sometimes risky. Rest areas should be patrolled and lighted, and generally are only accessable by motorists.
Apologies in advance if this rant triggers someone, but HighwayStar feels strongly about this subject, and first found this forum for that reason :banghead:
Rest areas are not obsolete.
I am not entirely sure where this idea came from, but I do think the pattern of states abandoning and demolishing rest areas is a major factor. So let me go through what I consider the "standard" argument before I demolish it (taken from reading a lot of articles where some state functionary bureaucrat pedals a line on why they are closing rest areas).
Rest areas were built in the early days of the highway system, when services were few and far between for motorists,but now most exits have services so we don't need rest areas anymore.
Now, to this I have several objections. First, the idea that services were ever few and far between in many areas, particularly the northeastern states, which were substantially as heavily settled and developed (and in some cases even more so) 70 years ago as they are today. Perhaps there is more next to highways, but the idea that there was nothing in that era is questionable at best. And passenger miles are also much higher than they were at that time, making the need for services greater on the whole as well.
Second is the idea that having a McDonald's and a Cenex at every exit replaces the function of a rest area. Rest areas were originally meant to, as the name suggests, rest. That includes bathrooms for people, some area to air pets if you have them with you, and some neat roadside information for the trip. Picnic areas, which of course overlap with rest areas, were intended for roadside picnics. The fast food/gas station on the side of an exit has bathrooms, but rarely pet facilities, good roadside information, or even just a nice place to stretch your legs. And as much as I love McDonald's and believe in it as a great American institution, it is not the same experience as a roadside picnic. So from this its clear that the function of rest areas is not really identical to their supposed replacements, casting doubt on the idea that they are "obsolete."
But beyond this what I really don't like about the "rest areas are obsolete" line is the fact that it is more of an excuse to cover for the fact that we, as a country, have become too broke to pay for decent roadside rest areas for the public. States talk of cutting rest areas to save money, and the amount saved is in the scope of things trivial, and not even close to offset by the other grossly wasteful spending that goes on year after year. This is also related to a certain mindset of privatization that took off in the aftermath of the 60's where there was a drive to remove public services wherever possible and put them in private hands to make them more exclusive, which I never cared for.
And as a final point, I must say that closing rest areas due to crime is even worse than for funding reasons. The answer to too much crime at rest areas is not to punish the entire traveling public by closing them, but to crack down on the perpetrators and clean house.
Sorry for the rant :bigass:
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 25, 2021, 02:32:05 PM
Apologies in advance if this rant triggers someone, but HighwayStar feels strongly about this subject, and first found this forum for that reason :banghead:
Rest areas are not obsolete.
I am not entirely sure where this idea came from, but I do think the pattern of states abandoning and demolishing rest areas is a major factor. So let me go through what I consider the "standard" argument before I demolish it (taken from reading a lot of articles where some state functionary bureaucrat pedals a line on why they are closing rest areas).
Rest areas were built in the early days of the highway system, when services were few and far between for motorists,but now most exits have services so we don't need rest areas anymore.
Now, to this I have several objections. First, the idea that services were ever few and far between in many areas, particularly the northeastern states, which were substantially as heavily settled and developed (and in some cases even more so) 70 years ago as they are today. Perhaps there is more next to highways, but the idea that there was nothing in that era is questionable at best. And passenger miles are also much higher than they were at that time, making the need for services greater on the whole as well.
Second is the idea that having a McDonald's and a Cenex at every exit replaces the function of a rest area. Rest areas were originally meant to, as the name suggests, rest. That includes bathrooms for people, some area to air pets if you have them with you, and some neat roadside information for the trip. Picnic areas, which of course overlap with rest areas, were intended for roadside picnics. The fast food/gas station on the side of an exit has bathrooms, but rarely pet facilities, good roadside information, or even just a nice place to stretch your legs. And as much as I love McDonald's and believe in it as a great American institution, it is not the same experience as a roadside picnic. So from this its clear that the function of rest areas is not really identical to their supposed replacements, casting doubt on the idea that they are "obsolete."
But beyond this what I really don't like about the "rest areas are obsolete" line is the fact that it is more of an excuse to cover for the fact that we, as a country, have become too broke to pay for decent roadside rest areas for the public. States talk of cutting rest areas to save money, and the amount saved is in the scope of things trivial, and not even close to offset by the other grossly wasteful spending that goes on year after year. This is also related to a certain mindset of privatization that took off in the aftermath of the 60's where there was a drive to remove public services wherever possible and put them in private hands to make them more exclusive, which I never cared for.
And as a final point, I must say that closing rest areas due to crime is even worse than for funding reasons. The answer to too much crime at rest areas is not to punish the entire traveling public by closing them, but to crack down on the perpetrators and clean house.
Sorry for the rant :bigass:
Much better rant than the I-70 not going to Baltimore rant. :)
I would not discount any of those points you made. I would also add that the push to "privatize" government has added to this.
Quote from: texaskdog on June 24, 2021, 10:39:06 PM
I like stopping at gas stations but sometimes they are handy when you really gotta go jump out of the car and someone has occupied it!
How often does someone forcibly occupy your car, that you've had to find out through trial and error that gas stations are handy for dealing with the situation?
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 25, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
Much better rant than the I-70 not going to Baltimore rant. :)
I would not discount any of those points you made. I would also add that the push to "privatize" government has added to this.
In this day and age it is heartening to find people can disagree on some things and agree on others instead of lining up in strict lines on either side of the divide pitchforks in hand. :-D
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 25, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 25, 2021, 02:32:05 PM
...
Much better rant than the I-70 not going to Baltimore rant. :)
I would not discount any of those points you made. I would also add that the push to "privatize" government has added to this.
Seconded - credit where credit is due Mr. Star, I also agree with your points here!
1995hoo mentioned upthread about VDOT closing roughly half their rest areas during the Great Recession - to their credit, they seem to have learned their lesson since. All still open, and some of the busiest ones (Ladysmith & Skippers on I-95) have seen full reconstructions recently.
To comment on Maryland, I feel it's a mixed bag. Their approach during the Great Recession was to close welcome centers, relocate the Sideling Hill exhibit to a museum in Hancock, and, in many cases, restrict the facilities to only being open during daylight hours. A few (US 15 by the MD/PA line & US 301 on the Eastern Shore come to mind) remain with these restricted daylight hours to this day, but the welcome centers along interstates are fully reopened.
The facilities themselves are also mixed - I-70 at South Mountain and the aforementioned US 15 were rebuilt in the early 2000's and are very nice, but the I-95 facilities "between the Beltways" could maybe use an overhaul.
(The 2 service plazas along I-95/JFK Highway northeast of Baltimore are recently rebuilt and super nice, but that might be outside the scope of this thread since they were P3 projects funded by developers who now get to keep most of the plaza revenue in return.)
Depends on where they are. If I'm out in the sticks I don't mind using the side of the road. That said, it wasn't fun having rest area in Gaviota Pass being closed yesterday and having to try to find a place in Santa Barbara where I can use a rest room. So to that end I guess you might say that I appreciate the convenience of rest areas being located on major highways in urban areas.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 25, 2021, 03:34:00 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 25, 2021, 03:20:45 PM
Much better rant than the I-70 not going to Baltimore rant. :)
I would not discount any of those points you made. I would also add that the push to "privatize" government has added to this.
In this day and age it is heartening to find people can disagree on some things and agree on others instead of lining up in strict lines on either side of the divide pitchforks in hand. :-D
Agreed, and I certainly agree with the points made in your post as well.
As Crohnie, I can tell you they certainly not obsolete. As they are usually better kept than stores and gas stations.
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
If they close rest areas, where else are you going to overpay for a soft drink or a candy bar?
I recently stopped at a rest area in West Virginia, and they wanted $2.50 for a standard-sized Milky Way bar out of the vending machine. That's far beyond normal convenience store prices.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
I went into a CO gas station once when I was about to burst, which had a "paying customers only" type of sign on the door. I got in and out without buying anything, but when I told some friends about this I was told what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have left without making some kind of purchase. So I just don't want to bother with those kinds of things.
Quote from: PastTense on June 25, 2021, 02:41:37 AM
Iowa plans to close 8 of its 38 rest stops over the next few years:
https://nonpareilonline.com/news/state-and-regional/iowa-dot-set-to-close-six-western-iowa-rest-areas/article_94905cbf-f82e-5b4e-90db-86c8bdbc1219.html
Iowa is still keeping a good number though, see https://iowadot.gov/restareaplan/docs/Final-report.pdf (https://iowadot.gov/restareaplan/docs/Final-report.pdf).
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 25, 2021, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
I went into a CO gas station once when I was about to burst, which had a "paying customers only" type of sign on the door. I got in and out without buying anything, but when I told some friends about this I was told what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have left without making some kind of purchase. So I just don't want to bother with those kinds of things.
Rest areas in urban areas are rare, and why are you telling your friends you went into a store to pee?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
I would agree that many places do not care, but that is not true of everywhere, and signs to the effect can certainly be seen.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 25, 2021, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
I went into a CO gas station once when I was about to burst, which had a "paying customers only" type of sign on the door. I got in and out without buying anything, but when I told some friends about this I was told what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have left without making some kind of purchase. So I just don't want to bother with those kinds of things.
Rest areas in urban areas are rare, and why are you telling your friends you went into a store to pee?
Hence why I say that the side of the road is often sufficient in rural areas. You don't have to deal with weird exchanges with a shop owner over having to pee.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 03:40:14 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 25, 2021, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
I went into a CO gas station once when I was about to burst, which had a "paying customers only" type of sign on the door. I got in and out without buying anything, but when I told some friends about this I was told what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have left without making some kind of purchase. So I just don't want to bother with those kinds of things.
Rest areas in urban areas are rare, and why are you telling your friends you went into a store to pee?
Hence why I say that the side of the road is often sufficient in rural areas. You don't have to deal with weird exchanges with a shop owner over having to pee.
You can be charged with indecent exposure and forced to register as a sex offender if someone should happen to see and make an issue of it. And while I suspect the demographic of this forum is heavily male, many women have different ideas about the suitability of the side of the road.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 03:41:51 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 03:40:14 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 11:07:38 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 25, 2021, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 25, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 25, 2021, 04:30:22 PM
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
The problem I've found is in urban areas is that a lot gas stations don't let people use restrooms. Most gas stations I frequent don't allow public access to restrooms as a means of preventing the homeless from getting in them or lingering around. This is less of a problem in rural areas or at big service chains.
I went into a CO gas station once when I was about to burst, which had a "paying customers only" type of sign on the door. I got in and out without buying anything, but when I told some friends about this I was told what I did was wrong and I shouldn't have left without making some kind of purchase. So I just don't want to bother with those kinds of things.
Rest areas in urban areas are rare, and why are you telling your friends you went into a store to pee?
Hence why I say that the side of the road is often sufficient in rural areas. You don't have to deal with weird exchanges with a shop owner over having to pee.
You can be charged with indecent exposure and forced to register as a sex offender if someone should happen to see and make an issue of it. And while I suspect the demographic of this forum is heavily male, many women have different ideas about the suitability of the side of the road.
I'm not talking about NYC or just whipping it out in plain view on the side of the road (I use cover like a tree or ditch). I had something more along the lines of US 160 in mind given the context of the conversation was rural Colorado.
And FWIW my wife does try to find a restroom first but if push comes to shove will utilize the side of the road method. South of the border in Mexico it's a normal thing pretty much everywhere to use the side of the road. There you don't have really any rest areas and accommodating roadside businesses are less of a thing.
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Pfft. The chances of getting complained about and an officer responding in time are very, very close to nil.
Quote from: Rothman on June 26, 2021, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Pfft. The chances of getting complained about and an officer responding in time are very, very close to nil.
Let alone an officer caring enough to initiate a stop if they saw it firsthand.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Actually I travel a great deal, and have for years. And I have heard of more than one person that got the indecent exposure charge doing that. It happens.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Actually I travel a great deal, and have for years. And I have heard of more than one person that got the indecent exposure charge doing that. It happens.
Got a citation for those criminal charges and the jurisdictions involved?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Actually I travel a great deal, and have for years. And I have heard of more than one person that got the indecent exposure charge doing that. It happens.
Got a citation for those criminal charges and the jurisdictions involved?
Obviously not, I'm not writing a damn book. One was discussed by some guy on a talk show, another was one of those small town things I once heard of.
At the end of the day though it does not mater, the statute, which is what you can be charged with, does not contain any defense to the effect of "I was on a rural highway and did not think anyone was around" if you want to run the risk, I could care less. I am not inclined to do so, and the argument that we don't need rest areas because of that is even more absurd, which is what we were originally discussing. If you don't believe it can happen that is fine, I know it can and that is plenty for me.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:17:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Actually I travel a great deal, and have for years. And I have heard of more than one person that got the indecent exposure charge doing that. It happens.
Got a citation for those criminal charges and the jurisdictions involved?
Obviously not, I'm not writing a damn book. One was discussed by some guy on a talk show, another was one of those small town things I once heard of.
At the end of the day though it does not mater, the statute, which is what you can be charged with, does not contain any defense to the effect of "I was on a rural highway and did not think anyone was around" if you want to run the risk, I could care less. I am not inclined to do so, and the argument that we don't need rest areas because of that is even more absurd, which is what we were originally discussing. If you don't believe it can happen that is fine, I know it can and that is plenty for me.
More likely it is because isn't true and you just got caught making something up to prove your point.
What is your purpose on this forum anyways? It seems like all you have to contribute is stereotypical angry east coast road guy hot takes.
Texas has closed the small ones and have built much larger ones. Ones that hold 100+ TT Combos. While yes, they are closing some, in Texas, at least, they are opening new larger ones.
NJ on I-80, not counting the truck only ones, has one in the Delaware Water Gap still in operation, but signed as the Appalachian Trailhead parking.
So it's obsolete by signage, and from the EB it is obsolete since NJDOT made the WB diamond off ramp at the U Turn Diamond one way. As before EB traffic was allowed to use the unnamed ramp with the Dover-New York gore sign to cross under the freeway to use the once two way ramp up to the trailhead parking.
Though not designed as a rest area, you can still park there to rest and picnic.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 07:23:20 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:17:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 07:08:18 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 07:02:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 26, 2021, 04:09:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 26, 2021, 04:01:31 PM
I could care less about Mexico, different jurisdiction.
And even in "rural" parts of the US you run the risk of someone coming along, frankly it is not worth the risk, and I would much rather have the government provide me some rest areas for that purpose.
Between your commends in the Route 66 thread and here it doesn't sound like you actually travel much. Or at minimum you seem to think that most police officers and other people care at all what you're doing on the side of a road.
Actually I travel a great deal, and have for years. And I have heard of more than one person that got the indecent exposure charge doing that. It happens.
Got a citation for those criminal charges and the jurisdictions involved?
Obviously not, I'm not writing a damn book. One was discussed by some guy on a talk show, another was one of those small town things I once heard of.
At the end of the day though it does not mater, the statute, which is what you can be charged with, does not contain any defense to the effect of "I was on a rural highway and did not think anyone was around" if you want to run the risk, I could care less. I am not inclined to do so, and the argument that we don't need rest areas because of that is even more absurd, which is what we were originally discussing. If you don't believe it can happen that is fine, I know it can and that is plenty for me.
More likely it is because isn't true and you just got caught making something up to prove your point.
What is your purpose on this forum anyways? It seems like all you have to contribute is stereotypical angry east coast road guy hot takes.
He's on here to complain. He also might have ocd.
Rest Areas are supposed to be obsolete. There are many people that want to demolish roads since roads are no longer stylish. They also want to demolish Rest Areas be cause it is not very patriotic to drive on roads. It is so much better to continue to fund the Burdens To Grandchildren Air Lines, as well as Amazon, and Jest Bozos.
Quote
On some nights there are multiple semis parked along the ramps, often including both sides of the off-ramp.
This is a perfect example of the need for Rest Areas. There are simply not enough of them. And it does not cost much money at all to build and maintain a Rest Area especially if it is only a parking lot with possibly dumpsters. But many do not have any lighting. Commercial Drivers use them even if there is no more space to park.
Quote
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
I all ways buy gas. That is a sufficient purchase.
Quote
No, it is not, TRESPASSER.
If I find that they require a Secret Code to enter a restroom, I shall boycott the facility entirely.
Quote
Tell us about the time that you did not buy gas! Please! Tell Us!
I was at Hotel and was going to buy a new tire the next day. The plugs on the old tire failed that morning. I had a Tire Pump with me, but did not plug it in. I drove across the street using a Green Traffic Light to the nearest Gas Station.
It is not a large property. It is quite similar to the descriptions on the other posts on this topic. Fortunately it did have an Air Machine. Some places have Free Air, and some also includes Free Water. This machine was so old, and was only Coin Operated. I went inside to make change. I also asked if the machine works. She was very understanding as I placed dimes and nickels on the counter. She said that the machine works, but also said later that if the machine did give me problems to come back inside and let her know.
The ancient air machine provided plenty of time to put air in the tire. Since it had no gauge on it, I checked the air with my tire pump. I drove to Walmart to buy a new tire.
Quote
Suspicious Gas Stations
I exited in Missouri to get gas. They were having a Garage Sale in the gas station's garage. I immediately drove away and got back on The Interstate.
Quote
Suspicious Rest Areas
I have encountered some guy in Oklahoma that parked way too close to me, looking at me with a Troll Face. Fortunately I was able to reverse.
Another time in a Missouri Welcome Center there was a panhandler that approached every body claiming that she was out of gas and lost all of her cards down the drain.
So now I have No Trespassing signs, but still use Parking Lots, Rest Areas, and Welcome Centers.
Quote
So Called Indecent Exposure
Unfortunately there are Creatures that get angry. They are Karens. Even if there are trees and / or rocks. Even if it is foggy and / or raining, they pull over to cause trouble.
Fortunately I travel in Motor Homes.
Yes, they do are still building Parking Lots, Rest Areas, and Welcome Centers. How ever, not fast enough.
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
Quote from: In_Correct on June 28, 2021, 02:21:44 AM
Rest Areas are supposed to be obsolete. There are many people that want to demolish roads since roads are no longer stylish. They also want to demolish Rest Areas be cause it is not very patriotic to drive on roads. It is so much better to continue to fund the Burdens To Grandchildren Air Lines, as well as Amazon, and Jest Bozos.
Quote
On some nights there are multiple semis parked along the ramps, often including both sides of the off-ramp.
This is a perfect example of the need for Rest Areas. There are simply not enough of them. And it does not cost much money at all to build and maintain a Rest Area especially if it is only a parking lot with possibly dumpsters. But many do not have any lighting. Commercial Drivers use them even if there is no more space to park.
Quote
I've never once stopped in a gas station to use the bathroom and had anyone make me feel obligated to buy something. They're not watching you when you're pumping gas, so how would they know if you've already purchased something (or will purchase something, if you decide to use the facilities first)?
If you feel obligated, that's on you.
I all ways buy gas. That is a sufficient purchase.
Quote
No, it is not, TRESPASSER.
If I find that they require a Secret Code to enter a restroom, I shall boycott the facility entirely.
Quote
Tell us about the time that you did not buy gas! Please! Tell Us!
I was at Hotel and was going to buy a new tire the next day. The plugs on the old tire failed that morning. I had a Tire Pump with me, but did not plug it in. I drove across the street using a Green Traffic Light to the nearest Gas Station.
It is not a large property. It is quite similar to the descriptions on the other posts on this topic. Fortunately it did have an Air Machine. Some places have Free Air, and some also includes Free Water. This machine was so old, and was only Coin Operated. I went inside to make change. I also asked if the machine works. She was very understanding as I placed dimes and nickels on the counter. She said that the machine works, but also said later that if the machine did give me problems to come back inside and let her know.
The ancient air machine provided plenty of time to put air in the tire. Since it had no gauge on it, I checked the air with my tire pump. I drove to Walmart to buy a new tire.
Quote
Suspicious Gas Stations
I exited in Missouri to get gas. They were having a Garage Sale in the gas station's garage. I immediately drove away and got back on The Interstate.
Quote
Suspicious Rest Areas
I have encountered some guy in Oklahoma that parked way too close to me, looking at me with a Troll Face. Fortunately I was able to reverse.
Another time in a Missouri Welcome Center there was a panhandler that approached every body claiming that she was out of gas and lost all of her cards down the drain.
So now I have No Trespassing signs, but still use Parking Lots, Rest Areas, and Welcome Centers.
Quote
So Called Indecent Exposure
Unfortunately there are Creatures that get angry. They are Karens. Even if there are trees and / or rocks. Even if it is foggy and / or raining, they pull over to cause trouble.
Fortunately I travel in Motor Homes.
Yes, they do are still building Parking Lots, Rest Areas, and Welcome Centers. How ever, not fast enough.
I worked at IHOP and you be a bit surprised how many would come into per and not sit down and dine.
Plus I will see many people come in to Panera to use the Free WiFi and not purchase anything. Only immigrant owned small franchises put up a squawk I have found to stop you from allow Mother Nature to take its course like in the Ho Jo in Rockaway, NJ where I thought a hotel like that has public lobbies that the desk clerk was hired help and seeinfpg guests enter and leave the lobby all day long, to not notice me as being unordinary. However the desk clerk here was the owner as he runs it solo with his family and lives in a room in the back with no restroom facilities at all along with no banquet hall even. So he made his lobby only to be a place of payment and not for his guests to use for the same that big hotels have.
[Edited to fix quote. -S.]
A youtuber called Geography King did a good vedio about this topic. I would check it out. And I agree with him the answer is no not at all. What I like about Rest Areas is teh convince you jsut pull off the highway and pull back on. If I am looking for a truck stop or anything else at on exit once I get off the exit ramp I have to figure out which way do I go. Then I have to figure out is it on the left or the right. And then if it on the right then that means I have to make a left turn when I pull out and given it may be a busy road wit ha lot of traffic that could be tough. The fact is once I got off the interstate I am on unfamiliar roads and that can be very stressful. I remember the time growing up as a kid my dad got of teh interstate for a gas station and while pulling out almost went the wrong way down a one way street. Not at first realizing the road we were once on was one way.
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 28, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 28, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.
One NYSDOT Region in particular has trouble with the cost of maintaining cinder block rest areas into their capital program given other needs.
HighwayStar is simply ignorant about how capital programs are put together.
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
I've heard that argument as a reason why Indiana reduced the number of rest stops; several years ago two between Ft Wayne and Indianapolis were consolidated into new one at the halfway point. As others have mentioned, Ohio seems to have maintained most of their rest stops; the Turnpike consolidated their rest areas about a decade ago, and they are among the best in the country imo.
I don't think rest areas are completely obsolete, but they've lost a lot of their utility as more and more services (gas stations, restaurants, etc.) were built up at almost every exit.
I could sum up my opinion on rest areas with this picture:
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0haT10.png)
Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 28, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.
And why shouldn't they be Neat? Or even Palaces?? The Airports are Palaces. Also Jest Bozos has several Palaces.
An argument could be made that Automobiles do not require frequent stops any more. Tires and Radiators can last farther and longer.
How ever, Commercial Drivers continue to Use them and Love them, especially Iowa 80.
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
....
A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.
Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24009.msg2569205#msg2569205)
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 28, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.
One NYSDOT Region in particular has trouble with the cost of maintaining cinder block rest areas into their capital program given other needs.
HighwayStar is simply ignorant about how capital programs are put together.
I am not "simply ignorant" it makes no difference how they structure their capital program or whatever other accounting story you want to paint it with. The fact remains that all those rest areas were built at one time without issue, and somewhere along the line this country became to broke/cheap to even maintain them.
Does that mean you're complicatedly ignorant?
:bigass:
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 01:24:14 PM
Does that mean you're complicatedly ignorant?
:bigass:
No, it means that complaining about how their capital fund works is entirely beside my point.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 01:03:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 28, 2021, 09:46:53 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 28, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I find that argument uncompelling. All of them were built and maintained at one point without issue, somewhere along the line something changed, but if we had always been this hard up for funds they never would have been built in the first place.
NY is notoriously mismanaged, as well as being a rustbelt state so I can't really say its a good benchmark for what they should cost.
One thing I've found is that many of these rest areas are built like palaces and not places to use the restroom. I saw a picture over the weekend of the new Kentucky welcome center on I-75 in Whitley County. That thing looks like a mansion. Functionality seems to be a secondary consideration in the way some of these facilities are built. Put up a plain block building and keep it clean and the plumbing working, and it's just fine.
One NYSDOT Region in particular has trouble with the cost of maintaining cinder block rest areas into their capital program given other needs.
HighwayStar is simply ignorant about how capital programs are put together.
I am not "simply ignorant" it makes no difference how they structure their capital program or whatever other accounting story you want to paint it with. The fact remains that all those rest areas were built at one time without issue, and somewhere along the line this country became to broke/cheap to even maintain them.
Maybe its because they just aren't as high a priority as they used to be. Just looking at Wisconsin traffic count data, roughly 1-2% of the vehicles on the interstate highways of Wisconsin use the rest areas. So while that doesn't make them "obsolete," it certainly makes it understandable why DOTs want to direct their resources elsewhere.
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
....
A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.
Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24009.msg2569205#msg2569205)
Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.
Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 29, 2021, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
....
A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.
Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24009.msg2569205#msg2569205)
Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.
Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.
If you read my friend's tweets, you'll see it has something to do with ensuring continued access to federal highway funding. I don't know the full background beyond what his tweets say about it.
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:27:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?
Hence why I said what I said about the side of the road above. Sometimes there isn't a restroom or a friendly business anywhere nearby.
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:58:02 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.
Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.
We could just consolidate everything into the Alanland or under the iron first of FritzOwl instead? I would imagine that Fritz has covered with something like a Rest Area every ten miles or so.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 29, 2021, 07:32:05 PM
We could just consolidate everything into the Alanland or under the iron first of FritzOwl instead? I would imagine that Fritz has covered with something like a Rest Area every ten miles or so.
Even I would agree that is too much. ;-)
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 07:24:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:58:02 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.
Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.
At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.
When the interstates were first constructed, almost none of the rural interchanges had services. Thus the rest areas that weren't doubling as welcome centers at state lines were placed in rural areas as the only source of public restrooms for long stretches. Now, many rural interchanges have at least a gas station if not more, so rest areas are getting less use.
They're still nice to have though. We just finished a family vacation to New England and there were three times during the trip where someone had to make a bathroom stop but we didn't need gas. Rest areas made for quicker stops than having to get off the interstate and pull into a gas station.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 07:41:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 07:24:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:58:02 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.
Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.
At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.
No just a slight modification of the old Chicago tune
Quote from: cabiness42 on June 29, 2021, 07:42:49 PM
Rest areas made for quicker stops than having to get off the interstate and pull into a gas station.
Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:27:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?
"When there's no place else around ".
I'm not talking rural northeast, where there's still Joe's Convenience store and a gas station with 2 pumps on the corner. I'm talking
Rural...when there's nothing for 50-100 miles.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 10:12:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:27:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
Playing devil's advocate here, can't people in rural areas stop at gas stations or convenience stores for these things?
"When there's no place else around ".
I'm not talking rural northeast, where there's still Joe's Convenience store and a gas station with 2 pumps on the corner. I'm talking Rural...when there's nothing for 50-100 miles.
But do those long gaps normally have rest areas in them?
There is a rest area (called a travel center by MDSHA signing) in Baltimore, MD on I-95. It is run by a hotel company (or a hotel management company anyway), a fuel company, and a local retail vendor and allows Greyhound Buses to make a stop there.
Its near the Fort McHenry Tunnel and can be also accessed from NB I-895 at O Donnell Street exit, but unsigned from it though.
Quote from: roadman65 on June 29, 2021, 10:57:47 PM
There is a rest area (called a travel center by MDSHA signing) in Baltimore, MD on I-95. It is run by a hotel company (or a hotel management company anyway), a fuel company, and a local retail vendor and allows Greyhound Buses to make a stop there.
Its near the Fort McHenry Tunnel and can be also accessed from NB I-895 at O Donnell Street exit, but unsigned from it though.
That is a weird travel center. Trucks don't seem to be allowed, and it is readily accessible by surface streets. It's basically just a run of the mill hotel complex.
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 07:58:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 07:41:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 07:24:28 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 29, 2021, 06:58:02 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on June 29, 2021, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 29, 2021, 06:45:48 PM
Arkansas closed many of theirs in the late 1990s after a motorist was carjacked and killed at a rest stop near Morrilton. Plus it came to light that some of them, particularly in Central Arkansas, had become hangouts for those who observe a alternative lifestyle.
Which goes with my prior comment, that if you have crime issues with rest areas the solution is not to punish the entire traveling public by shutting them down but to crack down on the criminal element and start handing out tough sentences.
HighwayStar for president- he's tough on crime.
Yep
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.
At first I though that this was someone else making fun of you.
No just a slight modification of the old Chicago tune
It's been more than one year since 1977, and Detroit still hasn't built new cars that run on beer.
Vote for me, vote for me
I want the nomination for the Presidency
Vote for me, vote for me
If I am elected, this is how it will be.
I'll cut your tax in half
I'll make the Russians laugh
I'll feed the hungry people everywhere.
I'll bring the highways back
New numbers and new rest areas service plazas
From Waikiki to old Delaware.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 30, 2021, 12:39:28 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 29, 2021, 10:57:47 PM
There is a rest area (called a travel center by MDSHA signing) in Baltimore, MD on I-95. It is run by a hotel company (or a hotel management company anyway), a fuel company, and a local retail vendor and allows Greyhound Buses to make a stop there.
Its near the Fort McHenry Tunnel and can be also accessed from NB I-895 at O Donnell Street exit, but unsigned from it though.
That is a weird travel center. Trucks don't seem to be allowed, and it is readily accessible by surface streets. It's basically just a run of the mill hotel complex.
It actually closed back in 2011 (https://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-xpm-2011-01-19-bs-bz-bus-station-renovation-20110119-story.html) - it also doubled as a bus terminal for Greyhound, who decided at that time to shift service elsewhere (at which point the hotel repurposed the space). However, it appears MDTA never removed the "Baltimore Travel Plaza" references (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2680916,-76.5600277,3a,75y,54.94h,88.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPtmCWgNiCWbM6kmliJ-YhA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m2!1e1!1e4?hl=en) from auxiliary signage approaching exit 57.
(There's also a TA truck stop that still exists directly across the street from where the Baltimore Travel Plaza was.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 29, 2021, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
....
A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.
Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24009.msg2569205#msg2569205)
Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.
Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.
If you read my friend's tweets, you'll see it has something to do with ensuring continued access to federal highway funding. I don't know the full background beyond what his tweets say about it.
I went back and read those tweets (I don't normally read that board, as I typically don't travel that far west).
Around here, if an electrical customer needs a three-phase line for their service, the electric company will install a three-phase line. If the need for one was there, I don't know why the power company serving that region would not install one.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 29, 2021, 06:02:06 PM
Quote from: skluth on June 29, 2021, 03:59:21 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
There's no law saying rest areas need to be in rural areas. Wisconsin has a rest area/ welcome center just outside Beloit (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5061957,-88.9858197,1624m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en). Colorado has one Burlington, the first town westbound on I-70 entering the state. The Burlington rest area (https://www.google.com/maps/place/CDOT+Rest+Area:+Burlington/@39.296129,-102.2682491,434m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x870cb285f46f4fc5:0xa17cd0f55c60beca!8m2!3d39.2964659!4d-102.2661112?hl=en) would make a good template on how to incorporate a rest area to promote tourism in small towns. Maybe the problem is the placement of rest areas, not the existence of rest areas.
So eliminate rest areas in rural areas where there's no place else around for people to use the bathroom, grab a soda or snack, or rest or a few minutes? I think you're totally missing the point of rest areas.
It's not like Burlington, CO is urban. It's a small town (<4000 people) that's large enough to supply utilities.
Most areas of the country have this size community along interstates at least every 30-50 miles. There are exceptions in desert and mountain areas, but even there it's rare to drive an hour on the interstate without coming across a town with some utilities. And if it is that long a gap, there is usually a sign to the effect of "No services for the next XX miles."
I also never said to eliminate placing rest areas in rural areas, only that if the difficulty (usually price) is too great to place one in a rural area to consider placing them where the utilities are located. Personally, I love them in rural areas, even if it means smelling a nearby dairy farm (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0868383,-88.8231765,3a,22.8y,130.01h,86.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAiHKDVQRFa605uqwdxwZyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) or being in the middle of wind farm (https://www.google.com/maps/@33.9212427,-116.6634237,3a,49.5y,48.52h,93.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1salIxwCFhZZKVF8NWtBot5A!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en).
If there are no Towns to supply Desired Utilities for the Rest Areas, the superhighway must be converted to Beautiful Toll Roads and the Rest Areas be converted to Elegant Toll Plazas. And then the Desired Utilities can be installed.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 29, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.
Now that's
weird. I think even ones that make you get off at a regular exit are pretty weird though, like the Bluefield WV Welcome Center.
ARDOT upgraded their Rest Areas with self service info kiosks.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 30, 2021, 06:03:34 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 04:08:56 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 29, 2021, 03:54:36 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 29, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: westerninterloper on June 28, 2021, 09:58:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 28, 2021, 06:24:12 AM
I'm finding that there are people on here that greatly underestimate the cost of building and maintaining rest areas. The cost of maintaining rest areas has been a consistent problem in New York for as long as I've worked at NYSDOT.
I heard it explained that rest areas are expensive because they are usually far from utilities, being away from cities and interchanges, and often have to build their own water and sewage systems just for the rest stop.
....
A friend of mine who works for the Nevada state government confirms this. They're having a problem with locating an EV charger on one particular portion of I-80 and a gas station owner on one side of the highway refuses to host it. I asked my friend why they can't put it at the rest area on the opposite side of the highway there, recognizing that the rest area is less developed than I'm used to on the East Coast, and he said it had to do with the prohibitive cost because the rest area doesn't have the necessary electricity to allow for a charger.
Edited to add: I had posted about this in another thread and here's the link; one of my posts contains his response explaining why the rest area isn't an option. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24009.msg2569205#msg2569205)
Why would the state government be involved in placing an EV charging station? It doesn't place gas pumps, so why should it place an EV charger? Seems to me this is a matter best suited for the private sector.
Or if it's vital to place it near the gas station, use eminent domain to acquire the proper location.
If you read my friend's tweets, you'll see it has something to do with ensuring continued access to federal highway funding. I don't know the full background beyond what his tweets say about it.
I went back and read those tweets (I don't normally read that board, as I typically don't travel that far west).
Around here, if an electrical customer needs a three-phase line for their service, the electric company will install a three-phase line. If the need for one was there, I don't know why the power company serving that region would not install one.
I know of at least one OSU building that has an EV charger. So the state funds it (at least partially) through the filter of Ohio State. Unless it was funded another way of course -- say though a donation or a corporate partnership.
Quote from: GCrites80s on July 07, 2021, 09:14:24 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 29, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.
Now that's weird. I think even ones that make you get off at a regular exit are pretty weird though, like the Bluefield WV Welcome Center.
That's what I mean. Here's an example from near Julesburg, on I-76 in the northeastern part of the state.
(https://i.imgur.com/gjGd8As.png)
That said, there are some rest areas on regular roads, too, like this on US-160 near Gerrard.
(https://i.imgur.com/bmsRm4L.png)
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 29, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.
Quote from: GCrites80s on July 07, 2021, 09:14:24 PM
Now that's weird. I think even ones that make you get off at a regular exit are pretty weird though, like the Bluefield WV Welcome Center.
There's a strange one on I-40 at the Warsaw exit (Exit 364) that is located between the lanes of the Interstate but only accessible via the exit. Even stranger, the lanes of the Interstate are built up on fill overlooking the rest area, which conveniently protects the rest area from the wonderful smells of the local pig farms. Always wondered if this was intentional. I'm a country boy at heart, but many of the folks stopping at the Pilot truck stop/travel center are overwhelmed.
Not at all. On the drive down to Hilton Head last month, stopped at two rest stops on the way down. One on 77 and one on 95. Good for a rest room break, snack, and a few minutes o walking around to stretch the legs.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 07, 2021, 10:39:03 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on June 29, 2021, 09:23:11 PM
Then there's places like Colorado where the bulk of the rest areas are located off of cross streets.
Quote from: GCrites80s on July 07, 2021, 09:14:24 PM
Now that's weird. I think even ones that make you get off at a regular exit are pretty weird though, like the Bluefield WV Welcome Center.
There's a strange one on I-40 at the Warsaw exit (Exit 364) that is located between the lanes of the Interstate but only accessible via the exit.
Wow, that is weird. Interesting, but definitely out of the ordinary.
That said, I have to say that it would be helpful to mention the state you're referring to in the post. At first, I thought you were referring to I-40 in Colorado or West Virginia, which was confusing, since, as we know, I-40 doesn't go through either of those states.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on July 07, 2021, 10:39:03 PM
There's a strange one on I-40 at the Warsaw exit (Exit 364) that is located between the lanes of the Interstate but only accessible via the exit.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 08, 2021, 01:41:40 AM
Wow, that is weird. Interesting, but definitely out of the ordinary.
That said, I have to say that it would be helpful to mention the state you're referring to in the post. At first, I thought you were referring to I-40 in Colorado or West Virginia, which was confusing, since, as we know, I-40 doesn't go through either of those states.
Oops. Warsaw, North Carolina.
The rest areas now seem to be devoid of state travel maps.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 08, 2021, 09:59:02 AM
The rest areas now seem to be devoid of state travel maps.
I've been seeing less of them, google maps probably obsoleted many of them.
Not in the least bit obsolete. As has been mentioned on this thread previous, the closing for rest areas because of crime, the cost of maintenance or a once rural area becoming more urbanized has lead to the myth that they are a thing of the past. If anything, there needs to be more. As an RVer, they are amazing, not just as a place to camp for the night, but they are glorified exit/entrance ramps which means no hard right or left hand turns. They have ample parking for large vehicles and some are very scenic. Take into consideration their supposed replacement, the gas station or fast food restaurant; sometimes you have several hard turns to get into the business, then once in the parking lot you find it is not adequate for a large vehicle (or you have to park three businesses down to access the business you want). God forbid you need gas as well and you pull up to find a gas station that there is not enough room to fit your rig at the pump (I know this is another argument since rest areas don't compete with gas stations for gas, but it's part of the annoyance of driving a large vehicle). Obviously I have a bathroom on board, so frequent bathroom stops get cut down for the passengers involved, but I still have to stop somewhere when I want to go to the bathroom and rest areas make a convenient way to get off the highway to do so.
I love them for their picnic areas and information at them.
I know this is not an issue for everyone because not everyone is an RVer, but the thing about driving a Motorhome is you get a small look behind the curtain of what driving is like for an 18-wheeler without having to get a job as a truck driver. Things like rest areas are built intentionally for drivers in larger vehicles so as to make their long haul travel more accommodating.
I just used two for camping for the night this past week. One at the Arizona/New Mexico state line on I-40 and the one at the scenic overlook on I-10 in Las Cruces, NM. The one on I-40 has a train track on the opposite side of I-40 so it's kinda noisy (although it would wake me, I went right back to sleep). The one on I-10 is a rest area that is kinda a landmark one in that it is a good marker for a days drive, so all that are there are bedding down for the night. Meaning, you wont get bother; everyone just wants to get some sleep.
Well, I think they have their uses. But, I want to point out a really strange one I have personally been to:
US 64 West of Taos, NM, near the Rio Grande Bridge. It has no other purpose other than to look at the bridge, and as a place for people to sell stuff. It's not really even a rest area, but all signs seem to mark it as one.
Something I forgot to say, in Texas, they are being upgraded, yes, but others have closed forever, and mostly because they were located in areas that were once rural but are no longer. I agree that rest areas in urban areas are weird, but I don't think that is a good reason to close them. Two notable examples are one south of New Braunfels and one north of San Marcos, both on I-35. Yes with I-35 becoming 6 lanes and the rapid growth, the highway no longer resembles it's rural nature it did 40 to 50 years ago, but they are still needed.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 08, 2021, 02:40:08 PM
Something I forgot to say, in Texas, they are being upgraded, yes, but others have closed forever, and mostly because they were located in areas that were once rural but are no longer. I agree that rest areas in urban areas are weird, but I don't think that is a good reason to close them. Two notable examples are one south of New Braunfels and one north of San Marcos, both on I-35. Yes with I-35 becoming 6 lanes and the rapid growth, the highway no longer resembles it's rural nature it did 40 to 50 years ago, but they are still needed.
MoDOT has converted a couple Rest Areas to Truck Parking
Much of Interstate 81 in New York was built with Parking Areas, and not Rest Areas, when originally constructed in the late 50s and early 60s. It wouldn't be until the early to mid 1980s that we'd start seeing the rest areas being built, particularly north of Syracuse. They were a welcome relief (no pun intended) for travelers coming down out of Canada into the states, or those going up to the 1000 Islands. Before the rest areas there were sets of signs that said "No services on this route" / "Find services at interchanges". A couple of parking areas are still there (south of LaFayette, around Watertown). The last time I was in New York State the Hastings rest area, which had been opened around 84 or 85 (IIRC) was still closed down due to lack of funding, though on the last sign rehab new Rest Area signs were installed and covered up. I think the others are still open and they seemed to be busy.
As a frequent traveler I'm thankful for rest areas. In many states, particularly in the midwest and southwest, they're in decent shape, are clean, and frequent enough when you're out in the middle of nowhere.
Are rest areas obsolete?
Not if you need to pee really bad. :bigass:
Are rest areas obsolete? No, and I have seen some states that are upgrading their rest areas to add more truck parking!